yeti1069 wrote: ↑3 years ago
I find in many games that the biggest bottleneck to the deck is cards in hand, as I play stuff out and end up in the position where attacking can be problematic (holding 1 important card in hand, like a counterspell, and having to discard other valuables that I'd rather keep). Every single time I've had Kindred Discovery, I've either not needed it, or it has won me the game. Even with 0 zombies in play, playing Varina to cantrip, or activating her ability a couple times to draw cards means getting ahead.
Decking oneself is the only concern I have about the card, and I've only had that happen one time (and with some additionally unusual circumstances). If you're not running KD, I'd look at either value-over-time with something like Phyrexian Arena, or any of the draw 3 for 3 mana spells available in these colors, just for some hand replenishment, but there are a lot of cards I would cut before KD for my deck.
I agree with the bottleneck and my line of thought is more about how to get out of that bottleneck. If my board is empty or I have already expended quite a few resources, it is tough for KD to be the thing that gets me back in the game. Which is why I was sort of looking at it as a card that really does more when I am already in a commanding board presence when it becomes less important.
I had thought about Arena to supplement
Graveborn Muse and I also thought of the 3 "Thirst" cards. I was even thinking how much nicer it would be if we had the one that allowed for a creature to be discarded
toctheyounger wrote: ↑3 years ago
Hmm, nothing really conclusive in that testing for discovery. I do still feel like its an all or nothing card. Its either not right to cast or it'll win you the game. In that respect, its probably worth counting the all vs the nothing.
Fact or Fiction is a card I truly love, personally. Its great for either your hand or your yard, but where it shines is telling you everything you need to know about a particular players threat assessment. Everything about the card requires skill to play. I've always seen it as great value, but its not a lot cheaper. I like to include it in a control shell, but I'm not sure its perfect here. It does dig deep though and thats not nothing.
Otherwise I'm going to be testing out
Frantic Search myself. I like instant speed, I like cheap, and I like that it can help me with burst mana or color fixing in colors where thats a little tough. Being either pseudo-free to cast or making me mana is nice tempo.
My personal feeling is probably for hand refill
Pull from Tomorrow is probably the top of the pile. I don't have a spare copy but I'd give it a shot if I had one spare. Just being scalable makes it useful in more scenarios than anything else i can think of.
I get your point on Fact or Fiction and I considered Frantic Search but I really want something that gets me more cards in hand; not just filtering. If I am empty handed and I draw that, I am still empty handed.
Pull from Tomorrow is a good choice though and probably gets my pick over Epiphany that pokken mentioned. I might as well pay 1 mana more to keep (nearly) all the cards.
Reading everyone's comments suggest that there is also a real possibility that I am going about this the wrong way. So, let me take a step back.
Part of the issue with KD is the mana cost and the fact that these colors are hard to ramp in. So, I am often thinking that I will get KD on turn 5 and that will basically be my only play. So, I have taken a turn off to hopefully get my turns 6 and 7 to be explosive but that is still slow. Also, the deck already doesn't run a ton of card draw, leaning on Varina to be most of it so with the talk of KD, Fact or Fiction, Epiphany, Arena, the "Thirst" cards, Frantic Search, and Pull from Tomorrow I am wondering if I should be looking at ways to supplement KD instead of replacing it.
Looking at my list, I have a few draw effects stapled to creatures and Liliana that require things to die. And, one of them (
Liliana's Standard Bearer) was pretty disappointing in the games above. It drew me two cards and it is really hard to get it give me more. Or, I have Read the Runes and Peer into the Abyss. But, really nothing that is unconditional. Even Varina requires attacking and that isn't always a good idea.
So, perhaps I should add KD back in but also throw in some cheaper draw spells and maybe even
Sword of the Animist and/or
Goldvein Pick (I am leery about the former since my basic count is so low) to help with some ramp.
Archaeomancer's Map will potentially help ramp as well which might be another reason I want to find other ways to keep my hand full. And maybe tighten up some other parts of the deck.
So, I could go with something like this:
CUTS
Read the Runes - I really do like this card here, partly because it fills the yard easily, but I think it might make sense to try something else for now.
Peer into the Abyss - Super expensive. My main regret is that I never even got to cast it
Liliana's Standard Bearer - I can't really control when my creatures die to make this consistent enough
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - She is expensive and her card draw is the same as a bunch of other things already.
Teferi's Ageless Insight - Works great with Varina but arguably KD does the exact same thing and works on more
Rise of the Dread Marn - Same thing as Standard Bearer really. I basically just sit on it hoping something happens where it is useful
ADDS
Pull from Tomorrow - A replacement for Read the Runes. Basically, a scalable draw effect
Fact or Fiction - I still like this card here and I would like to see what it can do. 4 mana is so much different than 3 mana in this deck that I might do something different later one, but I want to try it out.
Kindred Discovery - Obviously what most of the more recent discussions have been about
Epiphany at the Drownyard - I am thinking I will give this a go just to see what it can do. I am not as hopeful about it compared to others, but it still could be decent.
Sword of the Animist - I have 8 basics now so I might try to add in another Island and Swamp to push this to 10. Not absurdly high by any means, but still serviceable
Phyrexian Arena - I actually had 6 ideas for cuts above and then only had 5 cards to add back in so I am going to slot this in here for now. I don't know if it is needed, but it was mentioned and I never run it in anything so why not, right?