Varina, Lich Queen

[pokken]

In the end, there is a possibility he simply isn't needed. And with the release of more wraths and existing wraths it might be best to simply bank on those instead of a creature based version. But a recurable Akroma's Vengeance seems like it should be good for this deck.

Yeah I really see the upside just seems like on the balance it's likely to be a lot worse than drawing a bajillion cards? Dunno though, it's definitely on theme and cool that he makes zombies.

The thing I don't like about him is that he doesn't have flash so the scenarios where you use his first ability depend on you doing it to yourself with a sac outlet or a sweeper and also having a reanimation spell (or saccing everything then casting him), which doesn't seem like it would line up that much from a sequencing perspective.

I almost built him honestly I just found the sequencing to be so weird with his text.

[toctheyounger]

Well, on the other side of things, if we're looking at cards that get stupid with Tombstone Stairwell, Kindred Discovery regularly threatens to deck me. It's something to play into with Lab Man or whatevs, sure, but because it's not a "may", it actually gets pretty dangerous in how stupid the draw is. Especially with Stairwell triggering well outside of your turn, it's actually a little hard to break the pair up and save yourself.

Ultimately I think the argument against Discovery is really one of early to mid game tempo, and on that ground I can see the cut. Varina lives or dies on that timeline. Nev is a victim of the same scenario, I just think there's a few more avenues for him to directly affect the outcome of the game than Discovery.

A case could be made for either, I just wish I had some real data to bring to the table.

[WizardMN]

Granted, all of this is based off of spitballing as I haven't yet had a game with it, nor any game in the last 2 months, but I think there's a really good possibility it could be very good.

I am in the same boat. I don't think I have actually gotten to cast him before (and, if I did, it wasn't very memorable). Which is to say that it is possible we may both be looking at the potential when in reality he never really meets that expectation in practice. But man, I really want to at least give him a chance.

Personally if we're cutting from the top end, I'd be looking at Grimgrin, Corpse-Born. And I hate to say that cause I love that big bastard. Otherwise, I'd be dropping Ashiok, Dream Render, or maaaaybe Teferi's Protection (I've found it to be more of a desperation move than a game winner).

He was another I looked at, again, based mostly on cost. But, he acts as pretty good removal. Sure, he is 5 mana but repeatable removal is still important. Especially since I really want opponents to overextend into a wrath so taking potshots at them with Grimgrin can lead them to just flooding the board to get around him and then I take them out with a wrath.

That is interesting on Protection though and one I didn't really think about. Perhaps the card is wrong for the deck? Or, at least, the style of deck. Since the idea is often trying to just wipe the board or swarm the board, Protection is in a weird spot. I think I like the idea of that cut over Grimgrin or Ashiok anyway. Even though I look at Ashiok and they just don't fit the deck very well. Sure, their graveyard exiling is great but the aesthetic of Ashiok in a zombie deck seems off.

In the end, there is a possibility he simply isn't needed. And with the release of more wraths and existing wraths it might be best to simply bank on those instead of a creature based version. But a recurable Akroma's Vengeance seems like it should be good for this deck.

Yeah I really see the upside just seems like on the balance it's likely to be a lot worse than drawing a bajillion cards? Dunno though, it's definitely on theme and cool that he makes zombies.

The thing I don't like about him is that he doesn't have flash so the scenarios where you use his first ability depend on you doing it to yourself with a sac outlet or a sweeper and also having a reanimation spell (or saccing everything then casting him), which doesn't seem like it would line up that much from a sequencing perspective.

I almost built him honestly I just found the sequencing to be so weird with his text.

All very good points and the lack of flash is why a lot of the discussions with Nev are in conjunction with things like Plumb. The sequencing is just atrocious when we are talking about a wrath. Normally when drawing a wrath it is just "do I cast this now or wait a little longer". With Nev, the question is often going to be *can* I cast this now. And that is not a good question to be asking when holding a reset button in hand.

So, I think the arguments against him are very good. But, as mentioned above, I think there is this idea that he can often be good and the potential is there to be able to come in handy at the right time. I will probably try to get a number of games in just to see if I can at least cast him and see what he actually does in a real game. But I am not opposed to cutting him if he turns out to be a dud or just awkward.

[toctheyounger]

He was another I looked at, again, based mostly on cost. But, he acts as pretty good removal. Sure, he is 5 mana but repeatable removal is still important. Especially since I really want opponents to overextend into a wrath so taking potshots at them with Grimgrin can lead them to just flooding the board to get around him and then I take them out with a wrath.

This is pretty good reasoning, and to be fair, there's always the fact that he's an instant speed sac outlet too. I've got a pretty foil copy I never want to get rid of that I could slot in, perhaps I should think over doing that.

That is interesting on Protection though and one I didn't really think about. Perhaps the card is wrong for the deck? Or, at least, the style of deck. Since the idea is often trying to just wipe the board or swarm the board, Protection is in a weird spot. I think I like the idea of that cut over Grimgrin or Ashiok anyway. Even though I look at Ashiok and they just don't fit the deck very well. Sure, their graveyard exiling is great but the aesthetic of Ashiok in a zombie deck seems off.

Honestly, I'm about to remove Protection from Bruna, the Fading Light too - Akroma's Will is just better. I can end the game with it or save my ass with it. Protection really only does the latter, and there's still stuff it doesn't cover you for, things like Exsanguinate. I still think it's a great card, but it really needs to be in the right deck.

All very good points and the lack of flash is why a lot of the discussions with Nev are in conjunction with things like Plumb. The sequencing is just atrocious when we are talking about a wrath. Normally when drawing a wrath it is just "do I cast this now or wait a little longer". With Nev, the question is often going to be *can* I cast this now. And that is not a good question to be asking when holding a reset button in hand.

So, I think the arguments against him are very good. But, as mentioned above, I think there is this idea that he can often be good and the potential is there to be able to come in handy at the right time. I will probably try to get a number of games in just to see if I can at least cast him and see what he actually does in a real game. But I am not opposed to cutting him if he turns out to be a dud or just awkward.

I think more info is needed, honestly. I'm gonna run Nev and try to get some actual game time in, so I can report back shortly. Realistically, if there were more ways getting instant speed reanimation (or if Flash were still legal) into the deck he'd be an easy keep. As it is I have Apprentice Necromancer, Relentless Dead and very little else. Hardcasting him would seriously challenge me.

[WizardMN]

Well, on the other side of things, if we're looking at cards that get stupid with Tombstone Stairwell, Kindred Discovery regularly threatens to deck me. It's something to play into with Lab Man or whatevs, sure, but because it's not a "may", it actually gets pretty dangerous in how stupid the draw is. Especially with Stairwell triggering well outside of your turn, it's actually a little hard to break the pair up and save yourself.

I know Tombstone came exceptionally close to decking me once in one of the games in this thread. I think I ended up surviving but it was close. Maybe not the best case against the card, but Stairwell is such a powerhouse it is a reasonable point to bring up.

Ultimately I think the argument against Discovery is really one of early to mid game tempo, and on that ground I can see the cut. Varina lives or dies on that timeline. Nev is a victim of the same scenario, I just think there's a few more avenues for him to directly affect the outcome of the game than Discovery.

A case could be made for either, I just wish I had some real data to bring to the table.

This is where I am at. I just don't want to take a turn off in the early game to land it as I want to either keep flooding the board or trying to reset the board. And with a fair number of wraths in the deck now hitting everything, it means I would have to wait even longer to get it out.

And, again, I am never going to deny the power of the card but my experience with it has just been that it really isn't necessary.

I do agree Nev suffers a similar problem but drawing him with nothing else gets us back into the game (potentially) whereas drawing Discovery when behind is awful. So, yeah, I agree that Nev more directly leads to wins. But you can't really argue with drawing 4+ extra cards a turn (at least) having an impact on the game as a whole.

Hopefully I will play some test games online this weekend after picking up these cards (I don't know when the C21 cards become available though) so over the course of the next week or two I might have some more "data". None of us play these decks enough for our anecdotes to qualify as data but they are certainly better than nothing.

Honestly, I'm about to remove Protection from Bruna, the Fading Light too - Akroma's Will is just better. I can end the game with it or save my ass with it. Protection really only does the latter, and there's still stuff it doesn't cover you for, things like Exsanguinate. I still think it's a great card, but it really needs to be in the right deck.

Well, Protection still protects against Exsanguinate since our life total can't change. But I do get your point. And, honestly, your comment about Akroma's Will makes me think I should be running that in here.

[toctheyounger]

This is where I am at. I just don't want to take a turn off in the early game to land it as I want to either keep flooding the board or trying to reset the board. And with a fair number of wraths in the deck now hitting everything, it means I would have to wait even longer to get it out.

This is it really. We really need a good curve to start the game if we want to win comfortably and not just scrape by.

Well, Protection still protects against Exsanguinate since our life total can't change. But I do get your point. And, honestly, your comment about Akroma's Will makes me think I should be running that in here.

Ah, of course. Wrong example, but I know there's at least a couple of ways a win can be snatched out from behind Protection. I think it's kind of a meta call, really. If your meta has Craterhoof Behemoth/Aetherflux Reservoir or those sorts of cards that OTK the table I'd keep it in the deck. If not, it could be a wasted slot.

That's definitely the case for my Bruna. It's got a lot of control anyway, and it's quite hard to keep it out of the game. So Protection is sort of wasted, where Will can actually win the game. In mono-white my win con is basically combat damage, so Will is perfect. Similarly I think if you're winning with combat here, it could be worth a slot. I really like Sakashima's Will too, for weird Mirrorweave shenanigans, although I think the latter is better here.

[WizardMN]

In mono-white my win con is basically combat damage, so Will is perfect. Similarly I think if you're winning with combat here, it could be worth a slot.

That's just it: I don't think I do win with combat damage very often but it seems like I should. I know I don't run all the lord effects I could, but with as much as I commit to the board, it might be good to be able to just turn things sideways sometimes instead of trying to the aristocrat-type cards to trigger or activating Shepherd of Rot. Basically, Will seems like it actually expands the range of the deck as a whole rather than simply making a current function better.

[toctheyounger]

In mono-white my win con is basically combat damage, so Will is perfect. Similarly I think if you're winning with combat here, it could be worth a slot.

That's just it: I don't think I do win with combat damage very often but it seems like I should. I know I don't run all the lord effects I could, but with as much as I commit to the board, it might be good to be able to just turn things sideways sometimes instead of trying to the aristocrat-type cards to trigger or activating Shepherd of Rot. Basically, Will seems like it actually expands the range of the deck as a whole rather than simply making a current function better.

I think it is a pretty versatile card, and it seems like one that would put in some pretty great work here. I'm not planning to use it myself, but that's purely on account of already having what I feel is fairly sufficient combat buffing with Eldrazi Monument. I tend to stay away from spell based stuff anyway because my deck has no way to retrieve them, but Will definitely seems like the sort of card you ought to be only casting once.

I get the feel like I should thing, too - Varina attacks to trigger anyway, there's no reason not to optimise combat. Generally, I've been alright with the evasion I have (Zombie Master, Lord of the Accursed, the aforementioned Monument), although admittedly it's fairly rare that that's how I win the game.

[WizardMN]

I played a few games with the deck online and all 3 ended up with me against a single player. Lag online was a big reason but people just kept dropping. Two games it was me and the same player facing off against one another.

I mention that because 1v1 is wholly different than multiplayer so it is tough to get a feel for things. Also, I didn't add the Map since it looks like the C21 cards aren't online yet.

Anyway, I had a couple decent plays among these three games. Mystic Reflection ensuring Ashiok, Dream Render entered as one of my zombies was a cool play (I didn't want to try to combat 4 turns of grave hate). I ended up winning thanks to a well timed Teferi's Protection in response to a wrath that ended up taking out most of their own army.

In the last game I cast Winds of Abandon and they sacrificed their 4 creatures in response. So then I cast Rise of the Dread Marn off Foretell to get 4 zombies. These allowed me to trigger Varina pretty consistently and then I was able to fill my yard to cast Zombie Apocalypse for the win.

I ended up losing due to not having enough creatures to deal with Savra, Queen of the Golgari's sacrifice ability so they were able to just run over me. If I had a wrath I think I could have put up a better fight but I only had Living Death and they just sacrificed everything in response (which I expected) and then had just enough creatures to get me to sac all of mine while they had one left.

I did notice in pretty much all 3 games I was pretty short on cards in hand. I also noticed that in the first 2 games Kindred Discovery would have been very hard to make work (it would have worked splendidly in the last game). This was because I never felt like I had a time where I could have just fired it off and then really get back to my turn. Again, the third game was much different as it went on a little longer and I had some artifact ramp that would have allowed for it and then casting another zombie. I also had a reasonable board in the last game whereas the previous ones were less than stellar (it might have helped after the Living Death though).

So, basically, it is still inconclusive regarding Discovery. I won 2 of the 3 games so I can't say I needed it there. In the second game I was scrambling to build a board to deal with Savra's so I think there would have been some sequencing issues. But I do think I need some card draw, but I probably need something that I can cast earlier/cheaper. Distant Melody is an option but really only 1 mana cheaper. It is nice that I can build a board and then cast it rather than having to cast it then commit to the board. The sequencing certainly seems better though the mana cost isn't much better. I will just keep monitoring to see how things go.

[pokken]

Do you think a couple of goodstuffy draw spells that fill up your yard might be reasonable, to kinda avoid the issues Kindred Discovery et al have where they are fairly board state dependent?

Maybe like Epiphany at the Drownyard / Fact or Fiction type stuff?

[WizardMN]

That might really need to be the direction to go. I still like Fact or Fiction even though I have cut it out of every deck. And because it can fill the yard, it does double duty in this deck. I have never liked Epiphany because the opponent chooses but since I get to create the piles, it makes it more of a guessing game (maybe) for the opponent and losing some cards to the yard again isn't as big a deal. I can look into that some more.

I have Read the Runes which is fantastic when it works but I did have it in one of my games above and I ended up just discarding it since it too really relies on a board presence to get much use of. At least, when trying to claw back from a losing position. If I just want to draw 10 cards and discard as many creature cards as possible to set up a Living Death, it works great, or if I have all my tokens from Stairwell to get more cards out of the deal. But on an empty board it isn't as good as I think I need it to be.

And Rise of the Dread Marn probably isn't really needed. I wasn't ecstatic on the card when I added it, commenting that it might get cut eventually, so it might be another card to cut to make room for things like FoF.

[yeti1069]

I find in many games that the biggest bottleneck to the deck is cards in hand, as I play stuff out and end up in the position where attacking can be problematic (holding 1 important card in hand, like a counterspell, and having to discard other valuables that I'd rather keep). Every single time I've had Kindred Discovery, I've either not needed it, or it has won me the game. Even with 0 zombies in play, playing Varina to cantrip, or activating her ability a couple times to draw cards means getting ahead.

Recently, I had a game where Kindred + Zombie Infestation won me the game, as I was able to pitch cards to make zombies at instant speed to trigger some aristocrat effects, and continue drawings on a 2-for-1 basis.

Had another game with Rooftop Storm (I know, you and Toc don't run it), where I got to play and draw something like 14 zombies in 1 turn, again, thanks to the Kindred Discovery.

Decking oneself is the only concern I have about the card, and I've only had that happen one time (and with some additionally unusual circumstances). If you're not running KD, I'd look at either value-over-time with something like Phyrexian Arena, or any of the draw 3 for 3 mana spells available in these colors, just for some hand replenishment, but there are a lot of cards I would cut before KD for my deck.

[toctheyounger]

Hmm, nothing really conclusive in that testing for discovery. I do still feel like its an all or nothing card. Its either not right to cast or it'll win you the game. In that respect, its probably worth counting the all vs the nothing.

Fact or Fiction is a card I truly love, personally. Its great for either your hand or your yard, but where it shines is telling you everything you need to know about a particular players threat assessment. Everything about the card requires skill to play. I've always seen it as great value, but its not a lot cheaper. I like to include it in a control shell, but I'm not sure its perfect here. It does dig deep though and thats not nothing.

Otherwise I'm going to be testing out Frantic Search myself. I like instant speed, I like cheap, and I like that it can help me with burst mana or color fixing in colors where thats a little tough. Being either pseudo-free to cast or making me mana is nice tempo.

My personal feeling is probably for hand refill Pull from Tomorrow is probably the top of the pile. I don't have a spare copy but I'd give it a shot if I had one spare. Just being scalable makes it useful in more scenarios than anything else i can think of.

[WizardMN]

SPOILER

Show

Hide

I find in many games that the biggest bottleneck to the deck is cards in hand, as I play stuff out and end up in the position where attacking can be problematic (holding 1 important card in hand, like a counterspell, and having to discard other valuables that I'd rather keep). Every single time I've had Kindred Discovery, I've either not needed it, or it has won me the game. Even with 0 zombies in play, playing Varina to cantrip, or activating her ability a couple times to draw cards means getting ahead.

Decking oneself is the only concern I have about the card, and I've only had that happen one time (and with some additionally unusual circumstances). If you're not running KD, I'd look at either value-over-time with something like Phyrexian Arena, or any of the draw 3 for 3 mana spells available in these colors, just for some hand replenishment, but there are a lot of cards I would cut before KD for my deck.

I agree with the bottleneck and my line of thought is more about how to get out of that bottleneck. If my board is empty or I have already expended quite a few resources, it is tough for KD to be the thing that gets me back in the game. Which is why I was sort of looking at it as a card that really does more when I am already in a commanding board presence when it becomes less important.

I had thought about Arena to supplement Graveborn Muse and I also thought of the 3 "Thirst" cards. I was even thinking how much nicer it would be if we had the one that allowed for a creature to be discarded

SPOILER

Show

Hide

Hmm, nothing really conclusive in that testing for discovery. I do still feel like its an all or nothing card. Its either not right to cast or it'll win you the game. In that respect, its probably worth counting the all vs the nothing.

Fact or Fiction is a card I truly love, personally. Its great for either your hand or your yard, but where it shines is telling you everything you need to know about a particular players threat assessment. Everything about the card requires skill to play. I've always seen it as great value, but its not a lot cheaper. I like to include it in a control shell, but I'm not sure its perfect here. It does dig deep though and thats not nothing.

Otherwise I'm going to be testing out Frantic Search myself. I like instant speed, I like cheap, and I like that it can help me with burst mana or color fixing in colors where thats a little tough. Being either pseudo-free to cast or making me mana is nice tempo.

My personal feeling is probably for hand refill Pull from Tomorrow is probably the top of the pile. I don't have a spare copy but I'd give it a shot if I had one spare. Just being scalable makes it useful in more scenarios than anything else i can think of.

I get your point on Fact or Fiction and I considered Frantic Search but I really want something that gets me more cards in hand; not just filtering. If I am empty handed and I draw that, I am still empty handed.

Pull from Tomorrow is a good choice though and probably gets my pick over Epiphany that pokken mentioned. I might as well pay 1 mana more to keep (nearly) all the cards.

Reading everyone's comments suggest that there is also a real possibility that I am going about this the wrong way. So, let me take a step back.

Part of the issue with KD is the mana cost and the fact that these colors are hard to ramp in. So, I am often thinking that I will get KD on turn 5 and that will basically be my only play. So, I have taken a turn off to hopefully get my turns 6 and 7 to be explosive but that is still slow. Also, the deck already doesn't run a ton of card draw, leaning on Varina to be most of it so with the talk of KD, Fact or Fiction, Epiphany, Arena, the "Thirst" cards, Frantic Search, and Pull from Tomorrow I am wondering if I should be looking at ways to supplement KD instead of replacing it.

Looking at my list, I have a few draw effects stapled to creatures and Liliana that require things to die. And, one of them (Liliana's Standard Bearer) was pretty disappointing in the games above. It drew me two cards and it is really hard to get it give me more. Or, I have Read the Runes and Peer into the Abyss. But, really nothing that is unconditional. Even Varina requires attacking and that isn't always a good idea.

So, perhaps I should add KD back in but also throw in some cheaper draw spells and maybe even Sword of the Animist and/or Goldvein Pick (I am leery about the former since my basic count is so low) to help with some ramp. Archaeomancer's Map will potentially help ramp as well which might be another reason I want to find other ways to keep my hand full. And maybe tighten up some other parts of the deck.

So, I could go with something like this:

CUTS
Read the Runes - I really do like this card here, partly because it fills the yard easily, but I think it might make sense to try something else for now.
Peer into the Abyss - Super expensive. My main regret is that I never even got to cast it
Liliana's Standard Bearer - I can't really control when my creatures die to make this consistent enough
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - She is expensive and her card draw is the same as a bunch of other things already.
Teferi's Ageless Insight - Works great with Varina but arguably KD does the exact same thing and works on more
Rise of the Dread Marn - Same thing as Standard Bearer really. I basically just sit on it hoping something happens where it is useful

ADDS
Pull from Tomorrow - A replacement for Read the Runes. Basically, a scalable draw effect
Fact or Fiction - I still like this card here and I would like to see what it can do. 4 mana is so much different than 3 mana in this deck that I might do something different later one, but I want to try it out.
Kindred Discovery - Obviously what most of the more recent discussions have been about
Epiphany at the Drownyard - I am thinking I will give this a go just to see what it can do. I am not as hopeful about it compared to others, but it still could be decent.
Sword of the Animist - I have 8 basics now so I might try to add in another Island and Swamp to push this to 10. Not absurdly high by any means, but still serviceable
Phyrexian Arena - I actually had 6 ideas for cuts above and then only had 5 cards to add back in so I am going to slot this in here for now. I don't know if it is needed, but it was mentioned and I never run it in anything so why not, right?

[pokken]

The key reason I suggested Epiphany at the Drownyard over Pull is because of the mana cost (and the fact that you can ensure you get some creatures in the bin off it more consistently).

WIth 6 mana (a typical midgame stall) you can Epiphany for 6 and see 6 cards, probably end up with 3 and 3 in the bin.

With Pull from Tomorrow and 6 mana you can pull for 4, end up with 3 and discarding 1, but only seeing 4. And there is no way Pull is ever going to put 10 dudes in the bin to combo with a mass reanimation spell.

*in this deck specifically* I think Epiphany is much better. You see more cards and you're rarely going to be looking for a specific card so much as more fuel.

In control shells where you need to Pull for a sweeper, I think it's much better. In this deck you care more about quantity I think, and that quantity includes cards in bin for making into zombies and mass reanimating.

You can also do a lot of mindgames with the reverse version of FOF--it's clearly not as good as Fof or as skilltesting for your opponents, but in a 10 card split you can force people to give you 9 by putting Twilight's Call in one pile and a pile of dudes in the other. And you have like 4 of those effects (Tombstone Stairwell is another one actually, where if you drop 9 cards in the bin then pop it, you're likely going to win:P).

Which is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation, they either give you 8 cards of business or they give you Call and you slam it after putting 8 cards in the bin.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy it, I think it's really good in this deck, although I think it might be better with a bit of a focus on turning your zombies into mana so you can do it for 20 or 30.

[WizardMN]

To be honest, I did miss that Epiphany is X + 1. It does certainly change things though I am not sure how much. I am running through a few games online right now so I hope at the end of the day I will have an update as to how these latest changes end up working.

[RedCheese]

Yeah nothing from this new set and commander decks for my Varinna deck

[yeti1069]

Painful Truths is a draw 3 for 3 without any discard. Pull From Tomorrow looks decent as well for a hand refill.

How often are you looking at turn 5 with 0 creatures in play that can attack for KD to be a poor option? My experience has been even later with a clear board, dropping it and making Varina the following turn for a cantrip is ok. Varina can also be an army in a can with her activated ability, which again makes good use of KD.

Haven't had a chance to use Ageless Insight yet, but I imagine it would do a solid job of filling your hand. Not sure that would be one of my cuts.

I'm not running many basics in my version, but even if I were, I find myself (in this deck and others) having trouble with Sword of the Animist. Spending 4 on a turn, or 2 and 2 always seems like too much for what it's doing. I feel like the curve for the deck should be a creature on turns 1, 2, and/or 3, with maybe a mana rock on 1 or 2, Varina on 4, swing to draw 1-3 cards and go from there. If there's something to help go up on cards, rather than just filter, there should be a land available to drop every turn. For my money, I want ramp to get to Varina, or to get to 6 mana for the bigger cards in the deck, and Sword is really only doing that if you're mana screwed.

Are you folks finding Sword of the Animist to be making a big impact in your games? Am I undervaluing it here?

[pokken]

Are you folks finding Sword of the Animist to be making a big impact in your games? Am I undervaluing it here?

I only have it in one deck (mangara) and i never seem to want to spend 4 mana and swing for a rampant growth

[toctheyounger]

This is again untested having not played in 2021, but my thinking in considering sword is twofold.

Firstly, Varina struggles for ramp. We've got no way of getting more than one land into play per turn and short of running fetches and original duals, which i can't personally afford to do, colour fixing is very important. So while my basic count personally isn't super high theres enough that its worth considering purely to bolster my in play lands. If I can't ramp them its very common for me to discard surplus land for use with Varina's activated ability at a later point. While thats not a bad thing necessarily its a risk, abd its putting myself on somewhat of a clock to win as there's a finite amount of land i can discard and exile.

The first reason I've considered it is that its playing into what the deck wants to do anyway. If you can attack early turns you're going to, abd if you can do with Varina on the board you're definitely going to. 2 and is a lot early turns but if you can get something out and swing with the sword theres more to gain than lose. You might miss dropping one creature depending on what you've got in hand but you're setting up for more stability into the mid game.

The second reason is it optimises Varina's attack trigger. The more lands you have in play the less you're drawing to gum up your hand. I'm ok with drawing lands off an attack trigger but I'd rather already have them in play and be able to make use of sculpting my hand more optimally and earlier.

All of this may be a moot point if it turns out on plastering that it really is a big tempo loss, but personally I feel like my rationale holds up at least in theory. I've used Sword in other places to good effect, its currently a stalwart in my Bruna build, albeit that is a very different deck. Mono white needs all the ramp it can get and while I do well theres other synergies that work well around Sword like landfall triggers and Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Whether there's enough synergy in Esperanto zombies to justify the inclusion I'm not sure, but I definitely intend to give it a whirl.

[yeti1069]

Have you used the Sword a lot here?

[toctheyounger]

No. I've yet to test but I intend to. This is just why I think it could be a good fit. This might not carry through to actual game play, I could be wrong. I just think there's a good chance it could work actually pretty nicely in a Varina build.

[Nimbaway]

I've been running into the same issue with Varina, that getting the initial ramp going is a problem. I've always felt like I'm behind in that regard compared to my opponents. I've recently added Sword of the Animist and Goldvein Pick to my list, as well as been working on dealing with the curve and amount of cards that require two or more pips of a color. But like most I've not been able to actually play games with their inclusions thanks to the Covid restrictions stopping our game nights for the time being.

The Sword I don't mind since it is an on attack trigger and is just more likely to actually grab a land, something the Pick is likely to be less consistent in. There are other potential synergies the cards might have, but the times they will actually happen are limited and likely shouldn't be taken in account for when evaluating these cards. Not having gotten to play with these cards in the deck yet makes it tough for me to decide whether I want the new Archaeomancer's Map over one of them, I don't run many basic plains so it makes the initial investment feel awkward as well if you can't grab those. That said knowing I tend to be behind in ramp ensures it triggers, yet that means having the lands in hand and right now I feel that it would mean upping the draw in the deck as well.

[yeti1069]

For you folks who haven't been able to get games in, have you looked online? Discord has some servers for games. I've been using DroidCam to turn my phone into a webcam. Not as fun as in person, but it's allowed me to play paper magic basically nonstop through the last year.

On the ramp and fixing issues, I don't generally find I'm without enough mana for whatever I need to cast with 5 or 6 rocks in the deck, but colors are sometimes a problem. It's part of the reason I try to avoid any double color costs that aren't black. I think Oketra, KD, and Teferi's Ageless Insight are the only ones. I'm running a few fetches, but don't own any ABUR duals.

[toctheyounger]

For you folks who haven't been able to get games in, have you looked online? Discord has some servers for games. I've been using DroidCam to turn my phone into a webcam. Not as fun as in person, but it's allowed me to play paper magic basically nonstop through the last year.

This is my usual avenue, in all honesty. Getting into a store is just a little harder for me despite my country being relatively unscathed by the pandemic. For me the issue is more having a 1yo kid in the house. Until you're a parent you truly have no idea how blessed you are to have spare time. It's awesome in its own way, but I just don't have the time for pursuits outside of getting things done right now. I genuinely have more spare time at work.

On the ramp and fixing issues, I don't generally find I'm without enough mana for whatever I need to cast with 5 or 6 rocks in the deck, but colors are sometimes a problem. It's part of the reason I try to avoid any double color costs that aren't black. I think Oketra, KD, and Teferi's Ageless Insight are the only ones. I'm running a few fetches, but don't own any ABUR duals.

I'm usually 'ok' myself, by which I mean I can hit my colours for the most part with a little finagling for things like Supreme Verdict, and I usually have enough land to hit my curve, but there's very little room for missing land drops. What I mean is often I'm picking and choosing tactically what to cast for optimal advantage turn to turn, and it's often a choice between playing out and holding up resources for removal. I'm not suggesting I want to be able to vomit my hand into play a lá Simic, but a little more flexibility would be worth going for purely to be able to not have to choose between pushing my game ahead and holding everyone else back. It makes our window of opportunity to move towards a win quite small and having more resource available would just widen that window somewhat.

As a side note, it's a little weird but I literally haven't hit Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx once since I added it. It's one land in many, but ideally it's the boon the deck needs for mana once in play, purely because there's probably no point at which we don't have a ton of black pips in play unless we're really losing bad. It's neither here nor there in terms of hitting land drops, or searching for it (although I am planning to add Search for Glory shortly) but it's weird that I've not seen it. I guess it'd be nice to have more options similar to the shrine, but I don't really think there's scope for Cabal Coffers in the build, for the reasons we're going over more on the point. We just can't ramp enough to make it worth running.