Niko seems extremely mediocre, and more fitting for big mana decks that are willing to pay a lot to get shards and to crack them. His removal is far from anything truly reliable.
Sigrid is actually decent as a B tier card, but I'd probably slot Hixus, Prison Warden in before her.
I support the removal of Ghostway for the mere reason that there is no way this card should cost as much money as it currently does, especially when cards like Eerie Interlude exist.
I've expressed my opinion of Glorious Protector in pokken's list, but to summarize it just doesn't do enough in my book, even though it is flexible.
I expect Cosima, God of the Voyage to be a total disappointment for 100% of the decks that aren't landfall oriented.
I have been pleased with Niambi, and I think removing her is a mistake. If you're looking for repeatable bounce that's fine - you have any number of Crystal Shard, Cloudstone Curio, or even Kederekt Leviathan. But instant speed Whitemanes should be in their own category and considered on their own, and Niambi's lifegain can be pretty clutch at first, and save you from dying over the course of a game.
Ephara, God of the Polis
-
shermanido37
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
I agree on Niko but the effects seem good enough that I am willing to give it a try.
I think 5 mana is a huge jump and requires I actually take damage from the creature. They play in the same space but do enough that is different than I would still prefer Sigrid.
Perhaps on Protector but I like it a lot and it seems like it *could* perform exceptionally. Whether it does or not...well that is why I am trying it out.
I disagree about Cosima. I am already pretty stoked about her in Sygg for example (though, that is because of the Vehicle side). I think a free card draw from Ephara with the ability to store it up seems like it could be good. It may not be fantastic, and would even agree that it could be a dud, but I don't think she is as bad as you are making her out to be. Again, testing should show something.
Niambi might be a mistake but she can't return herself so she loses out on the loops Lion and 'Cloaker can provide. My thought is that if I am adding in other things to "blink" stuff, I don't need her anymore.
I think 5 mana is a huge jump and requires I actually take damage from the creature. They play in the same space but do enough that is different than I would still prefer Sigrid.
Perhaps on Protector but I like it a lot and it seems like it *could* perform exceptionally. Whether it does or not...well that is why I am trying it out.
I disagree about Cosima. I am already pretty stoked about her in Sygg for example (though, that is because of the Vehicle side). I think a free card draw from Ephara with the ability to store it up seems like it could be good. It may not be fantastic, and would even agree that it could be a dud, but I don't think she is as bad as you are making her out to be. Again, testing should show something.
Niambi might be a mistake but she can't return herself so she loses out on the loops Lion and 'Cloaker can provide. My thought is that if I am adding in other things to "blink" stuff, I don't need her anymore.
So, I tried these changes out except Cosmic Intervention since it isn't online yet. I slotted in Arcane Signet for it. I played against Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, Riku of Two Reflections, and Lathril, Blade of the Elves.
The game started off with a turn 2 Cosima, God of the Voyage // The Omenkeel with the intention of playing a land and dropping Ephara. However, Vorinclex dropped in Hall of Gemstone. Which sucks, but I am still only playing two colors so hopefully I could get to a rock.
I even had a Sensei's Divining Top and 2 fetch lands to help dig. And it helped. I got to a Mystical Tutor which got me to a Hour of Revelation. During this time, I got Cosima up to 2 counters and cracked a fetch to bring her in to block. Then exiled her and got 2 more counters. I cast Hour to wrath everything so I could finally start playing again and then dropped in a land to get Cosima to draw cards.
Next turn, I cast Sphinx of the Second Sun. I passed the turn leaving up my mana. I countered Vorinclex with Sublime Epiphany, copying Sphinx because I had nothing better to do.
I started my turn, cast Ephara, Evoked Mulldrifter, attacked Garruk Wildspeaker that Vorinclex played and passed. Then, something weird happened. I got infinite turns???
It seemed that two Sphinxes actually caused a bug where instead of me getting 2 Beginning Phases (1 worked the way it was supposed to), instead I got 1 extra Beginning Phase and 1 Full turn. Even Ephara was triggering during each of these upkeeps to draw me cards. It was super weird. Instead of just "winning" I conceded since there was no way this should have been happening.
Unfortunately, because I countered Vorinclex and because I was going a little slower as I tried to process what was happening, the Vorinclex player %$#% about me countering "all" their stuff and quite. I cast one counterspell all game because they tried their best to lock me out.
This did seem to show some of the power of Cosima though I think if I could have gotten Ephara down when I wanted, I could have gotten even more cards, especially with the fetches. Unfortunately, because I had to concede, I never got to see what the rest of the game would have been but it seemed to be leading up to something good. I will just have to remember not to clone Sphinx again.
The game started off with a turn 2 Cosima, God of the Voyage // The Omenkeel with the intention of playing a land and dropping Ephara. However, Vorinclex dropped in Hall of Gemstone. Which sucks, but I am still only playing two colors so hopefully I could get to a rock.
I even had a Sensei's Divining Top and 2 fetch lands to help dig. And it helped. I got to a Mystical Tutor which got me to a Hour of Revelation. During this time, I got Cosima up to 2 counters and cracked a fetch to bring her in to block. Then exiled her and got 2 more counters. I cast Hour to wrath everything so I could finally start playing again and then dropped in a land to get Cosima to draw cards.
Next turn, I cast Sphinx of the Second Sun. I passed the turn leaving up my mana. I countered Vorinclex with Sublime Epiphany, copying Sphinx because I had nothing better to do.
I started my turn, cast Ephara, Evoked Mulldrifter, attacked Garruk Wildspeaker that Vorinclex played and passed. Then, something weird happened. I got infinite turns???
It seemed that two Sphinxes actually caused a bug where instead of me getting 2 Beginning Phases (1 worked the way it was supposed to), instead I got 1 extra Beginning Phase and 1 Full turn. Even Ephara was triggering during each of these upkeeps to draw me cards. It was super weird. Instead of just "winning" I conceded since there was no way this should have been happening.
Unfortunately, because I countered Vorinclex and because I was going a little slower as I tried to process what was happening, the Vorinclex player %$#% about me countering "all" their stuff and quite. I cast one counterspell all game because they tried their best to lock me out.
This did seem to show some of the power of Cosima though I think if I could have gotten Ephara down when I wanted, I could have gotten even more cards, especially with the fetches. Unfortunately, because I had to concede, I never got to see what the rest of the game would have been but it seemed to be leading up to something good. I will just have to remember not to clone Sphinx again.
I played a couple games with this deck again:
Game 1
Show
Hide
This was against Sephara, Sky's Blade, Alela, Artful Provocateur, and Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire.
I mulliganed to 6 but started with Island into Sol Ring. This got me Ephara on Turn 2 and Tithe and Thassa, Deep-Dwelling on turn 3.
I did get Phantasmal Image into play as a Sephara just to have a blocker. They then swung at me after buffing their Sephara so I flashed in Whitemane Lion to bounce it after blocking. I then copied Vaevictus just to give them something to target since I didn't want to lose anything else. Someone did wrath and I bounced their Sephara so their board died.
But, unfortunately, Vaevictus was just too much to deal with. Their Wishclaw Talisman only searched for one thing but it was enough to just end the game. It didn't help that Alela scooped early and Sephara didn't last much longer either. I did cast a Selfless Spirit that ended up being over 400 power but that wasn't enough since they could block it and I didn't draw anything.
I mulliganed to 6 but started with Island into Sol Ring. This got me Ephara on Turn 2 and Tithe and Thassa, Deep-Dwelling on turn 3.
I did get Phantasmal Image into play as a Sephara just to have a blocker. They then swung at me after buffing their Sephara so I flashed in Whitemane Lion to bounce it after blocking. I then copied Vaevictus just to give them something to target since I didn't want to lose anything else. Someone did wrath and I bounced their Sephara so their board died.
But, unfortunately, Vaevictus was just too much to deal with. Their Wishclaw Talisman only searched for one thing but it was enough to just end the game. It didn't help that Alela scooped early and Sephara didn't last much longer either. I did cast a Selfless Spirit that ended up being over 400 power but that wasn't enough since they could block it and I didn't draw anything.
Game 2
Show
Hide
This game was against Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire (same player as above), Lathril, Blade of the Elves, and Bruvac the Grandiloquent.
I kept a 3 land hand which I expected to mostly use Cosima, God of the Voyage // The Omenkeel out of. So, on turn 3 I cast Cosima and then exiled it next turn. I played a land and put a counter on her since there was no reason to draw when tapped out.
Vaevictus got out and Bruvac was doing well with multiple Persistent Petitioners so I ended up tutoring for Hour of Revelation and casting that to reset people.
Cosima was still in Exile accumulating counters which was good. Vaevictus just cast Purphoros, Lathril ramped, and Bruvac went with another Petitioners but missed a land drop.
I played a land and left Cosima in exile since I had Terrain Generator and a Basic in hand. I ended up putting that land onto the field and then having Cosima enter so I could draw 3 cards plus 1 from Ephara. I needed this since I didn't have a land drop for turn and I didn't have much for a hand.
Vaevictus cast Avenger of Zendikar so I decided to cast Venser, Shaper Savant to bounce Purphoros. I then cast Stunt Double copying their Avenger. This gave me 8 tokens. I did it in response to being attacked with Lathril who was equipped with a Sword of Body and Mind which I didn't really think about since I couldn't block with a green creature either.
I played a land on my next turn to buff the tokens and cast Cyclonic Rift to clear the way for attacking Lathril. This put them to 16. I left one mana open for Swords just in case.
No one really did anything substantial on their turns and Lathril just scooped. I just played another land and swung at Vaevictus to put them to 7. They then cast Apex Devastator and ended up not getting a whole lot of stuff. One thing they got was Noxious Gearhulk which targeted my Avenger so I just flickered my Stunt Double to copy it and destroy theirs instead.
Bruvac scooped and i just swung out at Vaevictus to put them to -22.
I kept a 3 land hand which I expected to mostly use Cosima, God of the Voyage // The Omenkeel out of. So, on turn 3 I cast Cosima and then exiled it next turn. I played a land and put a counter on her since there was no reason to draw when tapped out.
Vaevictus got out and Bruvac was doing well with multiple Persistent Petitioners so I ended up tutoring for Hour of Revelation and casting that to reset people.
Cosima was still in Exile accumulating counters which was good. Vaevictus just cast Purphoros, Lathril ramped, and Bruvac went with another Petitioners but missed a land drop.
I played a land and left Cosima in exile since I had Terrain Generator and a Basic in hand. I ended up putting that land onto the field and then having Cosima enter so I could draw 3 cards plus 1 from Ephara. I needed this since I didn't have a land drop for turn and I didn't have much for a hand.
Vaevictus cast Avenger of Zendikar so I decided to cast Venser, Shaper Savant to bounce Purphoros. I then cast Stunt Double copying their Avenger. This gave me 8 tokens. I did it in response to being attacked with Lathril who was equipped with a Sword of Body and Mind which I didn't really think about since I couldn't block with a green creature either.
I played a land on my next turn to buff the tokens and cast Cyclonic Rift to clear the way for attacking Lathril. This put them to 16. I left one mana open for Swords just in case.
No one really did anything substantial on their turns and Lathril just scooped. I just played another land and swung at Vaevictus to put them to 7. They then cast Apex Devastator and ended up not getting a whole lot of stuff. One thing they got was Noxious Gearhulk which targeted my Avenger so I just flickered my Stunt Double to copy it and destroy theirs instead.
Bruvac scooped and i just swung out at Vaevictus to put them to -22.
Now with Strixhaven and Commander 21 being fully revealed, here are the cards I want to talk about for this deck. As I have been doing lately, this includes both sets together:
Angel of the Ruins - This is getting closer to a white Reclamation Sage and, honestly, this is a pretty good effect. The problem is that 7 mana just makes it close to unusable. Plainscycling certainly helps mitigate some of that, but I don't think it is quite worth it at this cost.
Archaeomancer's Map - This is a white Burgeoning that also provides use to ramp. At least, able to ramp to keep up. And once we get ahead in lands it isn't as much of an issue that we don't get to use the last ability. Importantly, even in the later game this can offer an easy way to get lands in hand just to make land drops. I think this should find a way into the deck somewhere. 3 mana is in a weird spot in this deck but it isn't a bad card.
Devastating Mastery - So, the way I look at this card is that it is sort of a cross between Hour of Revalation and Cyclonic Rift. This is because the regular mana cost is doable, but really isn't why it would be here (Hour is far better). So, the evaluation is based on the 4 mana and bouncing two things and even with that I think this is a good card. One opponent getting back two things really isn't that big a deal since a) Rift would do the same (at different timing of course) and b) the player with the worst board is who gets stuff back. Which also means the player currently in last isn't totally screwed over. Unless, of course, they have no board. In which case it is all upside for us
Excavation Technique - I like the design of this card a lot and is quite political (or, can be). If one player is getting out of control, this can allow the others to gang up on them. I do think the creation of the treasures might be a bit too high of a cost though? It is sort of hard to evaluate and it can be tough to fire off and copy in case some of our stuff gets blown up. As such, I think I am going to stay away from it here, but it could be an interesting removal spell.
Reduce to Memory - Another decent removal spell. You lose the ability to target lands when compared to Generous Gift but it does exile. I think if this was an Instant I would easily choose this over Gift. As it is, being a Sorcery isn't worth the benefit of exile and this deck doesn't run Gift as it is (which I would run first).
Scholarship Sponsor - I am not sure on this and I am not sure how much it could backfire. Basically, it could get us back to parity with the ramp deck but also does the same for everyone else. And, oftentimes, having other player's struggle helps us out quite a bit. So all of a sudden offering an influx of lands for players could end up being quite detrimental to us. And this deck doesn't often have a problem keeping up as well, with the potential of the Map above making that better, so I don't think I want to go this far to help out the table as a whole.
Semester's End - Basically this is a "better" Ghostway. It costs one more but it gives creatures counters and it targets so I don't have to exile something I might not want to exile (such as tokens or things I don't own). The main question is whether adding Planeswalkers to the effect and the addition of counters makes it better than Eerie Interlude. And I am not sure the answer to that is yes. Since I don't run Ghostway anymore, I think I will pass on this for now.
Ingenious Mastery - I don't think this deck really requires much more card draw so this is probably not a necessary card. I do think it is a decent card but there are plenty more I would add ahead of this in this deck. I will pass on it here.
Solve the Equation - A Mystical Tutor that costs more and is a Sorcery but gets the card into hand. As an Instant I might even consider replacing Mystical Tutor for this. Otherwise, I think there might be an argument for replacing Muddle the Mixture for this. It costs the same but can get far more cards. I lose the ability to just use it as a counterspell in a pinch or to use it to get a 2 mana creature, so it isn't an easy swap. I will think on this a bit more but I think the ability for Muddle to get creatures is more important in this deck.
Theoretical Duplication - Another Faerie Artisans, more or less, that only works for a turn but allows us to keep the token indefinitely. It also is harder to counter or play around. I think I want to try this out since it seems like it could do some good work.
White Cards
Archaeomancer's Map - This is a white Burgeoning that also provides use to ramp. At least, able to ramp to keep up. And once we get ahead in lands it isn't as much of an issue that we don't get to use the last ability. Importantly, even in the later game this can offer an easy way to get lands in hand just to make land drops. I think this should find a way into the deck somewhere. 3 mana is in a weird spot in this deck but it isn't a bad card.
Devastating Mastery - So, the way I look at this card is that it is sort of a cross between Hour of Revalation and Cyclonic Rift. This is because the regular mana cost is doable, but really isn't why it would be here (Hour is far better). So, the evaluation is based on the 4 mana and bouncing two things and even with that I think this is a good card. One opponent getting back two things really isn't that big a deal since a) Rift would do the same (at different timing of course) and b) the player with the worst board is who gets stuff back. Which also means the player currently in last isn't totally screwed over. Unless, of course, they have no board. In which case it is all upside for us
Excavation Technique - I like the design of this card a lot and is quite political (or, can be). If one player is getting out of control, this can allow the others to gang up on them. I do think the creation of the treasures might be a bit too high of a cost though? It is sort of hard to evaluate and it can be tough to fire off and copy in case some of our stuff gets blown up. As such, I think I am going to stay away from it here, but it could be an interesting removal spell.
Reduce to Memory - Another decent removal spell. You lose the ability to target lands when compared to Generous Gift but it does exile. I think if this was an Instant I would easily choose this over Gift. As it is, being a Sorcery isn't worth the benefit of exile and this deck doesn't run Gift as it is (which I would run first).
Scholarship Sponsor - I am not sure on this and I am not sure how much it could backfire. Basically, it could get us back to parity with the ramp deck but also does the same for everyone else. And, oftentimes, having other player's struggle helps us out quite a bit. So all of a sudden offering an influx of lands for players could end up being quite detrimental to us. And this deck doesn't often have a problem keeping up as well, with the potential of the Map above making that better, so I don't think I want to go this far to help out the table as a whole.
Semester's End - Basically this is a "better" Ghostway. It costs one more but it gives creatures counters and it targets so I don't have to exile something I might not want to exile (such as tokens or things I don't own). The main question is whether adding Planeswalkers to the effect and the addition of counters makes it better than Eerie Interlude. And I am not sure the answer to that is yes. Since I don't run Ghostway anymore, I think I will pass on this for now.
Blue Cards
Solve the Equation - A Mystical Tutor that costs more and is a Sorcery but gets the card into hand. As an Instant I might even consider replacing Mystical Tutor for this. Otherwise, I think there might be an argument for replacing Muddle the Mixture for this. It costs the same but can get far more cards. I lose the ability to just use it as a counterspell in a pinch or to use it to get a 2 mana creature, so it isn't an easy swap. I will think on this a bit more but I think the ability for Muddle to get creatures is more important in this deck.
Theoretical Duplication - Another Faerie Artisans, more or less, that only works for a turn but allows us to keep the token indefinitely. It also is harder to counter or play around. I think I want to try this out since it seems like it could do some good work.
Are you sure Nils, Discipline Enforcer isn't worth considering? I think he might be especially good in your deck since your build has more and better defense than mine and seems to want a slightly longer game. I could be wrong though.
I think if I wanted the effect, Windborn Muse would be the first choice. The problem I see with Nils is that he only affects one creature per turn and to tax more than Muse would, I need to add more than 2 counters to a creature. I realize Nils helps with things that already have counters on them, but I don't like the idea of Nils only really working if I pump up their creatures. Which just leaves me even more vulnerable when Nils dies. And he dies really easily.pokken wrote: ↑3 years agoAre you sure Nils, Discipline Enforcer isn't worth considering? I think he might be especially good in your deck since your build has more and better defense than mine and seems to want a slightly longer game. I could be wrong though.
Even before that point, the counters aren't necessarily changing the math for the other people since I am likely going to add counters to a creature each player controls so they are all still at parity. I just don't think that the effect does enough to be warranted when I am already not running Muse. Even if Nils is Recruiter-able
With the recent review, I have decided on trying the following changes:
The additions were mentioned above so there isn't much need to re-hash those reasons. As for the Cuts:
I don't like Angel of Finality being cut here but with Selfless Spirit and Muddle the Mixture to get it, I will lean on that for my grave hate. As it is now, Angel is already more pre-emptive but most cases where I really need to exile a yard is in response to someone going off and Angel isn't the greatest for that. In those cases, I will try to lean on other answers in the deck in those cases.
Protege is expensive and does something pretty similar to Duplication. Duplication has a higher ceiling and Protege has a better floor (in my opinion) since it can be used more defensively where Duplication requires an opponent to take an action first. But 6 mana vs 3 mana is a big difference too.
Cleansing Nova is just a straight swap for Mastery. I think I prefer the idea of a clean slate instead of having to try to pick and choose which is more important to destroy between creatures and artifacts & enchantments. I often don't care about my board enough in those cases that having the choice is relevant enough.
4/12/2021
Approximate Total Cost:
The additions were mentioned above so there isn't much need to re-hash those reasons. As for the Cuts:
I don't like Angel of Finality being cut here but with Selfless Spirit and Muddle the Mixture to get it, I will lean on that for my grave hate. As it is now, Angel is already more pre-emptive but most cases where I really need to exile a yard is in response to someone going off and Angel isn't the greatest for that. In those cases, I will try to lean on other answers in the deck in those cases.
Protege is expensive and does something pretty similar to Duplication. Duplication has a higher ceiling and Protege has a better floor (in my opinion) since it can be used more defensively where Duplication requires an opponent to take an action first. But 6 mana vs 3 mana is a big difference too.
Cleansing Nova is just a straight swap for Mastery. I think I prefer the idea of a clean slate instead of having to try to pick and choose which is more important to destroy between creatures and artifacts & enchantments. I often don't care about my board enough in those cases that having the choice is relevant enough.
Here are my thoughts on the cards from Modern Horizons 2:
Esper Sentinel - I might try this in other white decks but I think it ends up being somewhat superfluous here. The deck isn't really hurting for card draw and there isn't any way to really get its power pumped up. It is still a 1 drop creature for Ephara so that is decent but I think it ends up feeling out of place here.
Serra's Emissary - This seems like a great card to be on the top end of the curve to slam down and attack unimpeded (it seems "creature" would most often be the card type selected I think). It also acts as a pseudo fog as well. It is high on the curve though which is the main thing giving me pause but I wouldn't mind having something on the top end since I don't have anything now. I haven't been playing Ephara much but I might prefer this over Sphinx of the Second Sun.
Solitude - This is a great card for this deck. I hope I don't have to Evoke it often but being able to is awesome. A "free" Swords to Plowshares is pretty damn good and it triggers Ephara which is great too. I think I try to find a spot for it in the deck. I don't think it just takes the place of actual Swords, or Path, but I am considering it depending on what else I can find to cut.
Subtlety - I really wanted this to be good but it is just narrow enough that I don't think it is worth it. The deck has other ways to deal with creatures and paying 4 mana or exiling a card to temporarily set them back just isn't good enough. It makes sense in the deck and triggers Ephara but it is pretty bad overall. Even extending the trigger to those same types of permanents on the field would make it a shoo-in but only hitting spells is disappointing.
Moderation - I think this card can be useful, but the drawback is exceptionally significant. Namely, it pretty much ensures we lose every counter war which isn't a situation I want to put myself into. I think Ephara, and the rest of the deck, can ensure I keep my hand full in most cases that I don't really need this anyway.
Sword of Hearth and Home - Being able to blink anything I own is pretty powerful (looking at you Gilded Drake) and also being able to ramp is useful. I don't currently run Sword of the Animist but I think there is a spot in this deck for this Sword somewhere. I just need to figure out where that is.
White Cards
Serra's Emissary - This seems like a great card to be on the top end of the curve to slam down and attack unimpeded (it seems "creature" would most often be the card type selected I think). It also acts as a pseudo fog as well. It is high on the curve though which is the main thing giving me pause but I wouldn't mind having something on the top end since I don't have anything now. I haven't been playing Ephara much but I might prefer this over Sphinx of the Second Sun.
Solitude - This is a great card for this deck. I hope I don't have to Evoke it often but being able to is awesome. A "free" Swords to Plowshares is pretty damn good and it triggers Ephara which is great too. I think I try to find a spot for it in the deck. I don't think it just takes the place of actual Swords, or Path, but I am considering it depending on what else I can find to cut.
Blue Cards
Multicolor Cards
Colorless and Land Cards
Now that the holiday is over and the sets have been fully spoiled, here are my thoughts on the Adventures of the Forgetten Realms, and associated Commander, cards that are being released.
Dawnbringer Cleric - This is another modal card, similar to Charming Prince, that offers a bit of flexibility. The main issue is that the modes are fairly underwhelming. Gaining life isn't bad, but isn't enough to include it. The second mode is the most important but not hitting artifacts hurts a lot. And the last mode is pretty lackluster. I think I like the card, especially at 2 mana, but I am going to pass on it for now.
Guardian of Faith - I like cards like this as a way to protect my board and Wizards is really coming out strong with a lot of these. This one doesn't offer ETB ablities of creatures like Ghostway or Eerie Interlude do but it is a creature and doesn't only trigger on casting so it has a lot more uses with a few other blink effects in the deck. I will find a spot for this.
Teleportation Circle - This is another Soulherder but for one mana more, not being a creature, and not really doing anything when things are exiled. So, really, it is a Conjurer's Closet (more or less) for 1 less mana. Since I don't run Closet, I don't think this makes it in either.
Fey Steed - 4 mana to temporarily give something indestructible is bad. Adding in the ability to draw more cards is pretty good. I can see potentially adding this just as protection (or the ability to get a replacement) from things being targeted. It is a hard sell since it isn't guaranteed to ever trigger, but it seems decent overall.
Dragon Turtle - Flash creatures always get a second look for this deck and this isn't the worst. However, tapping down an opponent's creature just isn't going to often do much so this ends up being an easy pass.
Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar - I don't think this deck really needs more creature based card draw though the ability to "save" my creatures when being blocked does have its appeal. I might think more on this based mostly on that ability but my initial thought is that it just isn't needed here.
White Cards
Guardian of Faith - I like cards like this as a way to protect my board and Wizards is really coming out strong with a lot of these. This one doesn't offer ETB ablities of creatures like Ghostway or Eerie Interlude do but it is a creature and doesn't only trigger on casting so it has a lot more uses with a few other blink effects in the deck. I will find a spot for this.
Teleportation Circle - This is another Soulherder but for one mana more, not being a creature, and not really doing anything when things are exiled. So, really, it is a Conjurer's Closet (more or less) for 1 less mana. Since I don't run Closet, I don't think this makes it in either.
Fey Steed - 4 mana to temporarily give something indestructible is bad. Adding in the ability to draw more cards is pretty good. I can see potentially adding this just as protection (or the ability to get a replacement) from things being targeted. It is a hard sell since it isn't guaranteed to ever trigger, but it seems decent overall.
Blue Cards
Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar - I don't think this deck really needs more creature based card draw though the ability to "save" my creatures when being blocked does have its appeal. I might think more on this based mostly on that ability but my initial thought is that it just isn't needed here.
Now that I have gone two sets without updates to the deck, it seems like I probably get some updates in here with the cards I have been thinking of:
Of the cuts, Duplication, Niko, and Sphinx were pretty easy. Sphinx is bugged online anyway (if it is cloned) and 8 mana is a lot. Emissary is already hitting up against that and I think Emissary ends up being the better option. Duplication is a bit more "cute" than I would like for this deck and Niko was experimental when I included them and I am fine with cutting them now.
Emissary I mentioned, Solitude is a "free" creature spell (and works reasonably well with Ephemerate), and Guardian is another way to protect my board that is also on a Flash creature. Sword of Hearth and Home is more here for the blink ability than the ramp, though both are good. I am not sold on this here as it feels out of place but I think there is enough utility to this sword that is is definitely worth trying out.
7/15/2021
Approximate Total Cost:
Of the cuts, Duplication, Niko, and Sphinx were pretty easy. Sphinx is bugged online anyway (if it is cloned) and 8 mana is a lot. Emissary is already hitting up against that and I think Emissary ends up being the better option. Duplication is a bit more "cute" than I would like for this deck and Niko was experimental when I included them and I am fine with cutting them now.
Emissary I mentioned, Solitude is a "free" creature spell (and works reasonably well with Ephemerate), and Guardian is another way to protect my board that is also on a Flash creature. Sword of Hearth and Home is more here for the blink ability than the ramp, though both are good. I am not sold on this here as it feels out of place but I think there is enough utility to this sword that is is definitely worth trying out.
-
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin - Posts: 2164
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: SD, USA
I am curious to hear more of your thoughts on Serra's Emissary. I put one in my Bruna, the Fading Light deck but I haven't really considered it much of anywhere else. What are your experiences or hopes from the card? I like what it does potentially if it lives but it seems like something thats going to get targeted sort of heavily for a deck not rooted in reanimation.
[EDH] Vadrok List (Suicide Chads) | Evelyn List (Vamp Mill) | Sanwell List | Danitha List | Indominus List | Ratadrabik List
That is an excellent question and I think I and @pokken (tagging him to offer his comments too) differ on what this card does. Specifically, I expect this card to name creatures most often because that is what saves more of my creatures and allows me to attack and block with impunity. I believe pokken's thoughts are that naming Instants are the right way to go and I disagree with that but you might agree with that. I think Instants are the right call in order to protect Emissary but my expectation is that I can slam this down and then just win with a massive (for this deck anyway) attack. I don't like naming Instants because I don't think that really protects against enough stuff nor does it really advance the game whereas naming creatures does.
Now, your point about eating removal is probably spot on. The hope is that I can protect her with counterspells so she isn't too easy to remove but being 7 mana that could be tough. There is a real chance that she ends up being a dud but I think there is enough power with her that I am hoping she basically allows me to play a control game for a while and then finish with aggro instead of having to continue trying to kill people with small incremental damage.
Now, your point about eating removal is probably spot on. The hope is that I can protect her with counterspells so she isn't too easy to remove but being 7 mana that could be tough. There is a real chance that she ends up being a dud but I think there is enough power with her that I am hoping she basically allows me to play a control game for a while and then finish with aggro instead of having to continue trying to kill people with small incremental damage.
I think our decks and metas are probably different enough that it's a matter of taste - I don't have but the one blink spell to your three.WizardMN wrote: ↑2 years agoI believe pokken's thoughts are that naming Instants are the right way to go and I disagree with that but you might agree with that. I think Instants are the right call in order to protect Emissary but my expectation is that I can slam this down and then just win with a massive (for this deck anyway) attack. I don't like naming Instants because I don't think that really protects against enough stuff nor does it really advance the game whereas naming creatures does.
The nice thing is you'll have Sword of Hearth and Home to reset it (thinking about adding that too myself).
I do find that my queen cards like Faerie Artisans and Keeper of the Accord and Nadir Kraken are eating a ton of removal these days, but if your meta's more sweeper heavy then I could see instants being less good.
I think the card is almost a must as a way to deal with Warstorm Surge.dec which I seem to be facing like 100% of the time lately though.
For me I have so much reanimation and such that I don't worry about being able to bring it back if needed.
Just random play pattern thoughts in word vomit layout
* Most likely you have to play good cards *after* emissary since they will use all their targeted removal when it is on the stack
* Common pattern will be this card forcing a sweeper, whether you're on instants or creatures
* Naming creatures and getting blown out by craterhoof + removal is going to suck
* Naming enchantments to stop Purphoros will probably not be that much of a corner case, since it also gets warstorm surge / dragon tempest due to the weird targeting rules (afaik, the enchantment abilities can't target due to prot enchantments, even though the creature does the damage)
* The real blowout here is to get two copies down with a Phantasmal Image or a token with Sublime Epiphany.
* Resetting it with Whitemane Lion is very good.
* need to be careful about tension between Eldrazi Displacer and Soulherder and online Thassa, Deep-Dwelling with naming creatures
-
shermanido37
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
Emissary heavily depends on the meta, up to the point where in casual formats with no removal - the card is obnoxiously busted when naming creatures.
As for the rest, pokken seems mostly correct - it will name creatures 90% of the time, and its main functions will be to enable a great attack step the turn it comes in, and force any kind of removal to be used against it before anything else happens in the game.
It definitely becomes better with clones and blinks, and still its weakness to mass removal remains.
As for the rest, pokken seems mostly correct - it will name creatures 90% of the time, and its main functions will be to enable a great attack step the turn it comes in, and force any kind of removal to be used against it before anything else happens in the game.
It definitely becomes better with clones and blinks, and still its weakness to mass removal remains.
To be fair, naming Instants still allows for that blowout
Sure, Emissary is safe but I don't think Craterhoof would care. At that point, naming creatures is the best chance but it is worth pointing out that it is not impervious.
You are right about those latter two (though, naming creatures protects against them too* Naming enchantments to stop Purphoros will probably not be that much of a corner case, since it also gets warstorm surge / dragon tempest due to the weird targeting rules (afaik, the enchantment abilities can't target due to prot enchantments, even though the creature does the damage)
)
I ended up cutting Image above which I just realized I didn't comment on. This sort of ties into your last point below but it plays weird with targeted blink and I just felt I could be doing something better in that slot. There are plenty of good situations with it and I would be foolish to say otherwise, but I feel that it isn't exactly what I want anymore. Plus, I only have the one foil copy and didn't want to pick up a second for Volrath.* The real blowout here is to get two copies down with a Phantasmal Image or a token with Sublime Epiphany.
This is a very good point and not one that I had really given significant consideration to. It honestly does lower the use of the card. I don't mind not being able to blink Emissary but turning off Soulherder and Thassa is not ideal either. This could be a deal breaker for the card if I find that is isn't good enough otherwise (either with naming a different card type or still having power without being able to blink).* need to be careful about tension between Eldrazi Displacer and Soulherder and online Thassa, Deep-Dwelling with naming creatures
Sorry I didn't follow that train of thought but basically that's in comparison to doing something else, not naming instants. 7 mana is a lot, so playing it and tapping out and hoping to beat a creature overrun may be worse than just keeping mana up or doing something more proactive like a sweeper.
Yeah I think image is still worth it in your deck but it's much worse than in mine where it's a combo piece with Reveillark. It's certainly not too good to cut for other stuff
On your first point, I agree. I got a little too far into the weeds with Emissary but yeah, 7 mana to protect against a Craterhoof (or similar) only to see it get removed absolutely ends up in feelsbad territory. At least things like Selfless Squire don't need to actually stick around, though it is only good for one turn.
And, the mana cost is absolutely a concern. It is a reason I cut Sphinx for it. As much as we can ensure land drops and even ramp a bit, 7 and 8 mana is a lot and I have other 7 drops that are probably better in the long run. It is still worth a try to see what she does.
And, the mana cost is absolutely a concern. It is a reason I cut Sphinx for it. As much as we can ensure land drops and even ramp a bit, 7 and 8 mana is a lot and I have other 7 drops that are probably better in the long run. It is still worth a try to see what she does.
Here is my review/evaluation of cards from Midnight Hunt:
Cathar Commando - This is finally the Rec Sage/Qasali Pridemage we want for this deck. It took long enough but this is basically made for Ephara with being cheap and having flash. This easily slots into the deck.
Fateful Absence - Instant timing removal is always good. And getting rid of Walkers is even better. I think this could have a place somewhere but Destroy vs Exile and drawing them a card vs gaining life/ramping is tough to evaluate. Well, gaining life is clearly better for us but the different between drawing a card and ramping is a bit closer. I will think on this a little.
Loyal Gryff - Another Whitemane Lion variant that can't bounce itself. The fact that it can't bounce itself means it really isn't suited for this deck.
Sigardian Savior - Requiring it to be cast is a huge downside. Reveillark is just far better for the deck since it can play nicer with blink effects.
Sungold Sentinel - Exiling 1 card at a time just isn't like to be good enough. I like the card overall but it isn't going to be impactful enough to matter.
Vanquish the Horde - This is likely one of the best Wrath of God variants printed in a long time. It is going to be rare when this isn't cost for {WW} or even {1WW}. I think this goes in nearly every one of my white decks.
Memory Deluge - I am not sure this is really needed in this deck. Ephara is our card draw though I honestly value the Flashback cost over the normal cost as it is fairly often when I want to just get to a certain card and being able to look at 7 cards to do it isn't bad. At that point though, Dig Through Time might just be the better option.
Spectral Adversary - I like that it has Flash but 4 mana to phase out one thing is bad. 6, 8, 10, etc to phase out more allows for scalability but it just isn't good enough.
Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset - His abilities all seem pretty relevant and his ultimate seems great if we can get to it. I think he is worth a shot. The main issue is that he doesn't really protect himself in any way (other than untapping our stuff to block with) so that could be a problem. But it is still worth trying.
White Cards
Fateful Absence - Instant timing removal is always good. And getting rid of Walkers is even better. I think this could have a place somewhere but Destroy vs Exile and drawing them a card vs gaining life/ramping is tough to evaluate. Well, gaining life is clearly better for us but the different between drawing a card and ramping is a bit closer. I will think on this a little.
Loyal Gryff - Another Whitemane Lion variant that can't bounce itself. The fact that it can't bounce itself means it really isn't suited for this deck.
Sigardian Savior - Requiring it to be cast is a huge downside. Reveillark is just far better for the deck since it can play nicer with blink effects.
Sungold Sentinel - Exiling 1 card at a time just isn't like to be good enough. I like the card overall but it isn't going to be impactful enough to matter.
Vanquish the Horde - This is likely one of the best Wrath of God variants printed in a long time. It is going to be rare when this isn't cost for {WW} or even {1WW}. I think this goes in nearly every one of my white decks.
Blue Cards
Spectral Adversary - I like that it has Flash but 4 mana to phase out one thing is bad. 6, 8, 10, etc to phase out more allows for scalability but it just isn't good enough.
Multicolor Cards
Here are the cuts I am going to make to fit in some of the newer cards:
Map isn't available online (I am running Leonin Relic-Warder instead which will be the online cut) and I am not sure I really need it. Keeper of the Accord is good and I just don't like having my lists out of sync. Intervention is one that might no longer be needed. I have enough ways to get rid of nonland permanents that I can probably just get rid of this.
Teferi and Commando were talked about above. I did decided against Vanquish for this deck since I have no cards that just destroy creatures so I have nothing to replace with it. I will see if I want it later, but for now I will go without it.
10/2/2021
Approximate Total Cost:
Map isn't available online (I am running Leonin Relic-Warder instead which will be the online cut) and I am not sure I really need it. Keeper of the Accord is good and I just don't like having my lists out of sync. Intervention is one that might no longer be needed. I have enough ways to get rid of nonland permanents that I can probably just get rid of this.
Teferi and Commando were talked about above. I did decided against Vanquish for this deck since I have no cards that just destroy creatures so I have nothing to replace with it. I will see if I want it later, but for now I will go without it.
I have gotten behind in set updates again but this set did have a bit for quite a few of my decks. Here are my thoughts for this deck:
By Invitation Only - This is intriguing and actually pretty nice. It is almost certainly always going to be cast with the number 13 chosen. It deals with indestructible far better than most but deals with massive swarms far worse. At 4 mana I could see it but, really, we are not hurting for cards that destroy all nonland permanents so something that only deals with creatures is sort of becoming too ineffective compared to our options. And Winds of Abandon is still the better option anyway.
Cemetery Protector - White always gets the short end of the stick with things like this. If this was an attack trigger as well I think I would definitely try it out. Even without the added trigger to create tokens. But 4 mana to exile one card is terrible and isn't going to do enough in most games.
Fleeting Spirit - A worse Whitemane Lion isn't really where we want to be. It seems pretty good if the deck really wants to play into a reanimator type style but for this list, it just isn't good enough.
Hopeful Initiate - I actually like this effect but it seems really hard to make work consistently. Granted, in this deck if I can attack with Ephara I should be able to get this thing pretty big but it starts off pretty small that it can be hard to get to enough counters. And I would have to rely on it since I don't have much else for counter interaction in this deck. Which means it is very slow.
Cemetery Illuminator - Well, look at that. A better Cemetery Protector. The absence of Flash is disappointing but it is cheap and can be reasonable grave hate with an upside. It is slow but so is Angel of Finality. I think for the mana cost and the effect, it is worth giving it a shot. I do think the rest of its abilities just won't get used much as there are a lot of pieces that need to fall together to make it work.
Hullbreaker Horror - Flash and Can't be Countered are already a good start. Then the ability to control the stack and board (assuming other cards with Flash or that are Instants) is pretty damn good. 7 mana is a huge cost, but having Flash is a good way to mitigate that. I am constantly trying to find a bomb for this deck and this seems like a pretty good one.
Overcharged Amalgam - This is a counterspell that also gives us a creature for Ephara to trigger off of. I think most of the time it sacrifices itself, but I do think it fits the deck better than Insidious Will so I likely just make that swap.
White Cards
Cemetery Protector - White always gets the short end of the stick with things like this. If this was an attack trigger as well I think I would definitely try it out. Even without the added trigger to create tokens. But 4 mana to exile one card is terrible and isn't going to do enough in most games.
Fleeting Spirit - A worse Whitemane Lion isn't really where we want to be. It seems pretty good if the deck really wants to play into a reanimator type style but for this list, it just isn't good enough.
Hopeful Initiate - I actually like this effect but it seems really hard to make work consistently. Granted, in this deck if I can attack with Ephara I should be able to get this thing pretty big but it starts off pretty small that it can be hard to get to enough counters. And I would have to rely on it since I don't have much else for counter interaction in this deck. Which means it is very slow.
Blue Cards
Hullbreaker Horror - Flash and Can't be Countered are already a good start. Then the ability to control the stack and board (assuming other cards with Flash or that are Instants) is pretty damn good. 7 mana is a huge cost, but having Flash is a good way to mitigate that. I am constantly trying to find a bomb for this deck and this seems like a pretty good one.
Overcharged Amalgam - This is a counterspell that also gives us a creature for Ephara to trigger off of. I think most of the time it sacrifices itself, but I do think it fits the deck better than Insidious Will so I likely just make that swap.
Without much going on in the way of graveyard shenanigans, I *probably* wouldn't play Fleeting Spirit but I should note it's not really a "worse" whitemane lion, because it doesn't cost any mana. Whitemane Lion in a turn cycle costs 8 mana to generate the velocity that spirit does for 0 mana, all while being a 3/1 blocker that can block and fade an attack every turn.
While not accruing actual card advantage is a problem, that guaranteed velocity is really something else. Especially since it protects itself from almost anything.
It can also block and kill with the first strike ability as a threat.
So the combination of fading an attack in each player's turn and free velocity and the potential for lethal blocks for on anything x/3 or less, I think Ephara players are going to look back on our early assessments of this card and wonder how we didn't realize it's such an autoinclude
Basically we turn what might have previously been a "draw 2" or "draw 3" turn cycle with 1 or 2 out of 4 turns triggering Ephara, until "draw 5/discard 2" or "draw 5/discard 3". Getting the best out of 5 cards every turn is *really* good. Oh, and it survives our sweepers.
One thing to be cautious of here is that horror generates a fairly easy to assemble infinite combo that will happen by accident - any combination of artifacts that net mana and a signet effect make infinite mana, and add a self-bouncing creature and you bounce the board.WizardMN wrote: ↑2 years agoHullbreaker Horror - Flash and Can't be Countered are already a good start. Then the ability to control the stack and board (assuming other cards with Flash or that are Instants) is pretty damn good. 7 mana is a huge cost, but having Flash is a good way to mitigate that. I am constantly trying to find a bomb for this deck and this seems like a pretty good one.
That is fair. My thought behind the "worse" comment was that it basically does what Lion does (though at a better cost) but it also can't save anything else. I am also not a huge fan of discarding cards to it but perhaps that is more of a hesitancy to get rid of cards in hand in general. We are bound to have something worth discarding to then get something different later. And surviving sweepers isn't the worst thing but it is still "only" a 3/1. Maybe your point about the blocker that sticks around is the main piece I didn't give proper consideration for. I will have to think on that some more.
Regarding Hullbreaker: that is a good point too but it is also something that should happen somewhat rarely. I am not sure it happens often enough to be a concern. If it does seem like it is an easier situation to create, I will have to think on it more at that point.
Regarding Hullbreaker: that is a good point too but it is also something that should happen somewhat rarely. I am not sure it happens often enough to be a concern. If it does seem like it is an easier situation to create, I will have to think on it more at that point.
After thinking a bit on the newer cards, I am going to try out these changes:
Insidious Will being cut for Amalgam was talked about above. It doesn't do the exact same thing but it fits the deck a bit better and I think it ends up being a reasonable swap.
Hullbreaker is a really tough one. My curve just keeps going up and I don't think that is a good thing. But this is a good card for the deck so I think it makes sense to try to make it fit. I would prefer to keep the curve low to support it but I don't want to cut any of the higher MV cards right now so I am just going to get rid of Keeper. I think it works out well but probably not well enough so this seems like the time to cut it.
12/15/2021
Approximate Total Cost:
Insidious Will being cut for Amalgam was talked about above. It doesn't do the exact same thing but it fits the deck a bit better and I think it ends up being a reasonable swap.
Hullbreaker is a really tough one. My curve just keeps going up and I don't think that is a good thing. But this is a good card for the deck so I think it makes sense to try to make it fit. I would prefer to keep the curve low to support it but I don't want to cut any of the higher MV cards right now so I am just going to get rid of Keeper. I think it works out well but probably not well enough so this seems like the time to cut it.
Here are my thoughts on new cards from Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty:
Farewell - I don't mind seeing Merciless Eviction (swapping Walkers for Graveyards, which I think makes it better in a lot of cases) in mono-white. But I think we have an abundance of white sweepers as it is. Even though this exiles, I don't think I am quite ready to slot this in.
Lion Sash - I have gone back and forth on grave hate in this deck and I tend to lean towards not having it due to the grave hate not being all that great a fit. But this could be a card that is worth adding in to deal with cards in graveyards. The ability to beef up Ephara or even just have a big beater on the field is nice too.
The Restoration of Eiganjo - I think this card has potential in this deck. It can get us a land for a land drop, potentially ramp us the next turn, and then give us a creature that can trigger Ephara. The fact that it gets us a token on blocking is pretty important considering it has Vigilance so we can get both effects in a turn cycle (if we are attacked).
The Wandering Emperor - So, I like the Emperor and I especially like her in this deck. I just don't think I can justify her here. Her abilities are nice to have but, ultimately, I don't think she adds enough to the deck to warrant inclusion.
White Cards
Lion Sash - I have gone back and forth on grave hate in this deck and I tend to lean towards not having it due to the grave hate not being all that great a fit. But this could be a card that is worth adding in to deal with cards in graveyards. The ability to beef up Ephara or even just have a big beater on the field is nice too.
The Restoration of Eiganjo - I think this card has potential in this deck. It can get us a land for a land drop, potentially ramp us the next turn, and then give us a creature that can trigger Ephara. The fact that it gets us a token on blocking is pretty important considering it has Vigilance so we can get both effects in a turn cycle (if we are attacked).
The Wandering Emperor - So, I like the Emperor and I especially like her in this deck. I just don't think I can justify her here. Her abilities are nice to have but, ultimately, I don't think she adds enough to the deck to warrant inclusion.
