Ephara, God of the Polis

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Yeah, I might just look more into that. I have held off because I like the idea of 2 color decks not having fetches. But part of that was because, before Fabled Passage and Vista, there was only 1 on-color fetch and it felt out of place. And then I held off on Vista because the foil was stupidly expensive. It still is so I might just wait for Commander Masters or Legends or whatever to see if they reprint it.

But I think with having all 3 it doesn't seem quite as out of place. I should find a place for those two and Flooded Strand. Probably cut 2 Plains and an Island. This does make Emeria a little tougher to get online as I will be down to 12 Plains total and only one Fetch can get me a dual. But maybe that is alright.

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Post by shermanido37 » 3 years ago

Kadena's Silencer only counters abilities. Perhaps you meant Stratus Dancer?

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

shermanido37 wrote:
3 years ago
Kadena's Silencer only counters abilities. Perhaps you meant Stratus Dancer?
I did. Thanks :) Too many face down things to keep track of. I will edit the post above to correct this.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Here are my overdue card summaries/evaluations for Zendikar Rising and Commander Legends. I just bunched them all together and tried to limit the scope of what cards are being discussed. There might be something I missed of course, but hopefully I got the main ones.

White Cards

Angel of Destiny - This deck has Resolute Archangel as a way to gain a quick bit of life. While this Angel doesn't work as well with some of the blink effects we have, it is also 2 mana cheaper. And, realistically, we don't often care too much about our opponents' life totals until we really start trying to close out the game. If we can swarm the board with enough creatures, their life gain could end up being irrelevant.

But, that ends up being the main problem. If we need more lifegain, granting lifelink is the far better option. And the deck isn't really hurting to win as it is so an alternate wincon isn't really needed. And, if one was, I think there are other options that would come before this one.

Archon of Emeria - This isn't bad for a stax/tax type build as we don't often care about casting more than one spell per turn anyway. But, for the build I have here, I don't think it really fits.

Skyclave Apparition - This is a card I think I might actually play. The deck sort of waffles among different "exile" effects stapled to creatures and I find I like this far better than the ones that give the exiled permanent back. The fact there is a CMC restriction makes it tough to just say it has to be here, but I think it is better than Leonin Relic-Warder at least so I find that to be an easy swap.

Court of Grace - I don't do a lot with token producers and this ends up being worse than other options for that effect. And Monarch really isn't needed in this deck and is somewhat tough to defend so this is likely a pass.

Keeper of the Accord - Now, this is a lot better. While, again, there are probably better token producers (though, this does potentially trigger on every opponent's turn) the ramp option is the main reason to run this. The entire package is pretty good, but the ramp trigger is the main effect. This easily finds a spot somewhere in the list.

Blue Cards

Amphin Mutineer - 4 mana to cast a creature to exile a creature isn't the worst. It works out sort of well with Displacer but it is expensive and a 4/3 token that they get is still bigger than most of our stuff. So, I think it is best to skip this.

Hullbreacher - This is not a bad card but just doesn't fit the theme of the deck. I think there is a build where this ends up being an exceptionally good card but since I cut Alms Collector a while ago, I don't think there is any reason this should fit into its place.

Master of Winds - First, we can basically ignore the last ability on this card. There is pretty much no way we can ever count on that being relevant. But, the second ability might be alright. At least, I want to include it in the summary because 4 mana draw 2, discard 1 isn't very good on its own but if we can blink it, it starts looking a little better. With all of this being said, I think there needs to be a higher focus on blinking for this to make sense and even then I still like Cloudblazer ahead of it. Mulldrifter is also clearly a superior card.

Sakashima of a Thousand Faces - This isn't a bad clone, and one that lets my other clones do a little more since I can double up on Legendary creatures. But, this deck isn't too clone heavy which means the added functionality of the legend rule not applying probably won't come up a lot.

Sakashima's Protege - I do think this can be a pretty good card. Cascade is a powerful mechanic. Granted, this deck is set up to be more reactive than anything else so there is a higher chance of revealing something I don't want to cast but even then, I still potentially get a clone out of it. There is a potential where it could be used in conjunction with Mystical Tutor as well to be able to counter something if I needed to so hitting a counterspell isn't necessarily bad, depending on the situation. Having Flash is the main driver for including it but I would like to try it out to see what it could end up doing.

Sphinx of the Second Sun - This is an exceptionally expensive effect but the effect is also exceptionally powerful. I have my doubts as to how good this ends up being for that cost, but I think it needs to at least be tested. I will be finding a spot for it somewhere.

Multicolor Cards

Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate - Her second ability is basically never going to happen. There are no rogues or warriors and I only have one clone. So, unless I clone one and steal another with Drake, that ability might as well not even be printed. But, the third ability is pretty good. For one mana more I get the option of Hexproof or Indestructible which I think means it is an easy swap for Selfless Spirit just for the flexibility.

Colorless and Land Cards

Jeweled Lotus - I am not sold on this card at all, and I really do feel like it is a dud (or, at least, massively overhyped). I think it will be played a lot for sure, but it is quite narrow. However, I do think of all my decks, this is likely the one where is actually makes sense in. Or can perform the best anyway. A turn one Ephara when I get the right draw can be pretty good. It still then requires that I actually have small creatures to cast to trigger Ephara to refill my hand, but I think that is reasonable. I am going to try this here and see if ends up being worth it.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

With the cards from Zendikar and Commander Legends, here are the changes I am going to make for now:

First, just to get them out of the way, the fetches I am adding are because I think I finally have enough to warrant their inclusion. I don't like off color fetches in my decks and only having 1 didn't make a lot of sense to me. Now that we have 3, and now that the other two have come down in price, I figured it was worth adding them in. I am cutting Maze of Ith since I have found it is not often I actually need the effect due to the other cards in the deck; Temple for being slow; and an Island because I couldn't come up with another land to cut and I think I still want the Plains to turn on Emeria. I kept Kor Haven because even though the effect is similar to Maze in that I don't often activate it, it helps activate Eldrazi Displacer. There is a fairly high possibility that Kor Haven is cut at some point as well.

With the additional fetches, it might turn out I would be fine to go down to 9 Plains and stay at 11 Islands but 10 and 10 seems fine so I will see how that plays out.

Linvala and Selfless Spirit are just straight swaps. I don't expect Linvala's trigger to ever actually happen since I don't think I can even get a full party without clones or Drake stealing something. But her activated ability is the same as Spirit's with the added option for Hexproof in case that ends up being relevant. The extra mana I think is worth the flexibility.

Skyclave Apparition and Relic-Warder are also being treated as straight swaps. While Apparition is limited by CMC, it is not limited by card type (other than nonland) so it can work out a little better to exile something more relevant. It also works out well in that it doesn't give them their permanent back; just a token. And the deck can deal with tokens.

Keeper of the Accord is sort of covering for three cuts here: Hawk, Octopus, and Barrin. The idea is that the ramp option is better than Hawk and can trigger more often and/or consistently. The other side of things is the possibility of getting tokens each turn to trigger Ephara to draw cards. While Barrin and Octopus are maxed at one card per turn (and, realistically, Barrin is sort of maxed at one card total), Keeper can keep creating tokens each turn to be used as chump blockers or just to trigger Ephara. The additional mana is well worth the effect and is arguably the most exciting addition.

Sakashima's Protege is an interesting card and one I am not entirely sure on. It has Flash which is a huge plus; it has Cascade which is even a larger plus (the Flash allows the potential for Cascading into a Counterspell to not be a total whiff); but it can only copy something that entered this turn which is not ideal. The intent of the card seems to be to allow for it to copy what it cascades into so it can be cast on an empty board just to get some board presence which isn't too bad. At least, it can be sort of a last ditch effort to save oneself though I wouldn't expect that to happen too often considering what the rest of the cards in the deck are.

Sphinx of the Second Sun is being added with cautious optimism. The card is expensive, but the effect is probably worth it. Two untaps, draws, and upkeeps per turn mean a lot of cards and a lot of mana. There is no real way to cheat it out in this deck so the idea is to cast it in the first main and really hope it survives until the second in order to trigger. At that point, it is effectively free for the turn. While the window to stop it is small, there is a window which means we could spend 8 mana expecting to untap only to have it blown up and all of our lands tapped. Perhaps with Keeper of the Accord letting us keep up, we can cast Sphinx with counter backup.

As mentioned above, Jeweled Lotus is being tried here as an option to get Ephara down early. The question comes down to whether this allows her to trigger more often or how this really changes the course of games. I don't believe the card is an auto-include in basically anything, but it has potential here so I want to give it a fair shake.

And lastly, I decided to cut Teferi. I am not sure I like the cut but this isn't a deck that often really cares about counter wars or protecting our stuff from Instant timing actions (the new Sphinx notwithstanding). In fact, I would argue that the card has cost me more resources than it has saved as it requires me to be the only person at the table that can respond to things. It is unfun and a poor political play where I can no longer rely on my "allies" to stop another, bigger threat. I would rather cut it here and see what the omission leads to, but I believe it ends up making the games proceed better, even if I am not protected as well.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Note that not all cuts mentioned above have been made yet since Commander Legends isn't released online yet

I decided to get in a game today with this deck as I haven't played it in a while. I played against Nylea, Keen-Eyed, Brago, King Eternal, and Shanna, Sisay's Legacy.

I got really close to keeping a 1 land hand with Sol Ring and Cartographer's Hawk and the only thing that stopped me was that the land would enter tapped so Hawk wouldn't hit until turn 3.

I mulliganed into a hand with 3 lands and no white mana. Sea-Dasher Octopus was able to draw me a few cards, but I was starved for white for a lot of the early game.

Sensei's Divining Top also did its best to get me to white mana but without any shuffle effects, it took a while. Eventually, I cast Spellseeker for the sole reason of shuffling my library and then took Arcane Denial to help draw me more towards white mana.

In the mean time, Spellseeker and Thassa, Deep-Dwelling were able to get me a few cards in hand and I got Mana Drain and Swords to Plowshares as well before Brago killed Spellseeker. I did finally get white mana in there and I was able to use Restoration Angel as well to get Winds of Abandon.

I ended up casting Winds of Abandon since Shanna was gunning for me and had a bunch of creatures. Nylea had some big ones too and Brago had quite a few. Soulherder, Ephara, God of the Polis, and Cloudblazer were the main ones. After Winds resolved, Shanna scooped even though they had 4 cards in hand and about 14 mana.

From here, Brago was pretty insistent on targeting me so I just held back and tried to stop Brago from triggering too often. They actually didn't have a lot of payoffs, but Nylea was rebuilding really slow from the Winds so saving stuff for Brago seemed fine.

At one point, I used Capsize (without Buyback) to bounce their Swiftfoot Boots and then Swords took out Brago. In their second main they recast both so I just cast Venser, Shaper Savant and bounced Brago back to hand so I could attack into their Teyo, the Shieldmage and turn on both Ephara and Thassa to be able to attack as well. I swung all out at them since they had the better board and were at 51 life. After doing so, they scooped.

Now, it was just me and Nylea and unfortunately, Nylea was still struggling. When I passed my turn I had and Nylea had Beastmaster Ascension (not online), Nylea, and Nyx Lotus. They used this to cast Gemrazer and God-Eternal Rhonas. And then attempted to cast Triumph of the Hordes. I just cast Venser again (which I got back in my hand after bouncing him with Thassa in my end step) and bounced Nylea since it was the only creature they had that could attack.

I swung in with the gods and a flyer and I was able to keep bouncing Venser so they saw the writing on the wall and scooped.

In this game, I saw Prismatic Vista which actually ended up working out pretty well with Top to shuffle away some back cards once Spellseeker was gone. I did see Barrin and immediately shuffled him away as there was almost no use to him at the time.

Linvala made an appearance but didn't do anything. I think she is a good safety valve though so not needing her this time doesn't mean I won't ever need her and I like having the option.

Otherwise, not much to really report. The deck worked out well and I never really felt I was backed into a corner with anything (at least, not after I got my white mana :) ). Kor Haven did pop up and I am not sure if it was needed. I never played it so it stayed in hand for 2 or 3 turns. I think it would have been good against Nylea if I had played that instead of Mystic Sanctuary to get back Swords to Plowshares. Since I had Venser as an option, I liked the idea of getting me another removal spell but there might be an argument there that the safer play was Kor Haven since I could use it right away in case they could answer Venser somehow.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Getting any combination of Soulherder/ Thassa, Deep-Dwelling and Venser, Shaper Savant and/or Spellseeker usually spells a reliable win. I'm always stoked about that.

I used to worry a lot about Spellseeker being too much but people seem to be really stepping the power level up these days so I feel like it's fair given I can't abuse green ramp and have to work for my mana.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

I agree. Spellseeker still doesn't have a ton of choices in the deck, though that number is slowly creeping up. I have never felt that Spellseeker is too much either, even as I was trying to loop it more in that game. It doesn't really get anything game ending (maybe Rift or Winds depending on board state).

And yeah, Thassa and Soulherder with Venser was so good. The cards are already good on their own but being able to always have Venser in hand for the turn cycle offers a lot of options. Even if he is 4 mana.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Usually you can punish someone way more than the 4 mana worth is my experience, and there's usually only one person who is scary enough to need to be vensered at a time.

And once they know about it, everyone has to play around it a bit which gives you some power. It's weird the things venser loops do to play patterns, mostly people are horrible at playing around it and get punked. :)

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Alright, well I just had one of the more ridiculous games with this deck in a long time. It went on for a while and was littered with great plays, misplays, and one major "accidental" play that I will touch on.

So, the decks were Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge (which seemed to really be a Kess, Dissident Mage deck after a while), Elsha of the Infinite, and Merieke Ri Berit. Merieke got stuck on lands and conceded on the 4th or 5th turn so it was really just a 3 player game.

I started off with a turn 2 Ephara thanks to Sol Ring. I then got to a turn 3 Linvala followed by a turn 4 Soulherder. There wasn't much going on there but I just want to keep triggering Ephara as much as possible. I did stumble on lands but a timely Stormscape Familiar and The Birth of Meletis (I cashed in my Sensei's Divining Top so I could get them both) really helped. It is worth noting that Meletis is only online because of Land Tax being expensive but I ended up buying it for Gisela and then never getting it into here. So, that is why that card showed up.

In any case, I was basically behind for the majority of the game. Jeleva/Kess took some massive turns and I couldn't do much to stop them. Elsha tried and was putting up a good fight, but eventually Jeleva started running away with the game. They had things like Sepulchral Primordial and had Stolen Identity Encoded on Kess who had Shroud. They also cast Knowledge Exploitation twice, targeting each of us. Targeting me was basically a dud though since I had almost no cards that were worthwhile and they didn't grab anything. They did find Nexus of Fate from Elsha though.

They also managed to cast Aminatou's Augury twice. The first was sort of a whiff, but they got Etali, Primal Storm which we did our best to keep off the board. I cashed in my Capsize to do so after Elsha had countered it the turn before (they brought it back with Animate Dead).

But, as mentioned, they just got out of control. They had stolen Kykar from the graveyard of Elsha, they had my Soulherder, they copied Young Pyromancer and got a bunch of tokens that way and overall just had a massive board.

On one turn, after they stole my Soulherder with Sepulchral, they tried to flicker it so I cast Sublime Epiphany to counter the trigger, bounce Soulherder, copy Stormscape Familiar (my board was awful), and draw a card. This play ended up being one of the best plays I could have made in the long run. Soulherder ran away with the game and Familiar was instrumental in letter me cast my stuff.

But, at the time, we were hanging on as this board built quickly so they hadn't really had a chance to alpha strike either of us. After the Nexus was cast though, the writing was on the wall. They did copy their Primordial which got my Linvala, Keeper of Silence from the graveyard. I really didn't want them to have it so I cast Teferi's Protection. And, immediately after I did so I realized I messed up. It was just a stupid play that didn't do what I wanted.

Now, I had been thinking of casting it anyway since they were tapped out and about to take another turn and letting them counter it meant I died so realistically, it was the right play for the time, but it was just being cast to do something it wasn't going to do.

But, ok, that worked out and they attacked Elsha for a little (Elsha had a few tokens too from Shark Typhoon and their own Pyromancer) and then it passed to my turn. I started the turn with Soulherder, a wall from Birth of Meletis, and two Familiars. I was trying to sequence everything and tried to figure out what I could do to stay alive so my thought was to get Mystical Tutor back with Mystic Sanctuary. And then, I would cast Winds of Abandon with Venser, Shaper Savant backup in case Jeleva tried to counter it.

What I did was play the Sanctuary first and then Winds. Which was immensely stupid since they had a Mind's Dilation which we had fought over before. So, of course, they just got my Tutor. This was going to get me Rift which I could draw into with flickering something with Soulherder this turn (to draw the Tutor) and then casting Whitemane Lion next turn to draw the Rift.

Side note; Whitemane Lion was amazing in this game. It drew me a ton of cards and really kept me in the game, especially early.

But, that obviously didn't happen since I sequenced it wrong. Not a big deal though as long as my Winds resolved. Which it did. So I had no need for Venser backup. Weirdly, I think the two Familiars actually reduced Winds to 2 mana total instead of 4 like it should have been. It seemed like a bug since I only tapped two plains.

So, Winds resolved and all of a sudden my screen is filled with Soulherder triggers. And I realized that I totally forgot about Soulherder's triggered ability that looks for anything exiled. And there were 28 creatures exiled. And Jeleva was at 29 life. So, I swung at them with a 30/30 Soulherder and the two Familiars just to be safe. Elsha started their turn and didn't have an answer and scooped.

So, in spite of myself, I managed to pull out the win. Soulherder's trigger has never looked so good and to go from a board of a 2/2 Soulherder and 2 Familiars (and a Wall) to a 30/30 Soulherder just came out of left field for all of us and managed to take my opponents by surprise.

So, other than Soulherder being a beast, I had a couple other observations:

Barrin is terrible. I mentioned I am cutting him in a couple days when Commander Legends finally releases online, but he is just awful. Every time I see him I am disappointed and he is never good. I wanted to give him a fair shake and I think I have. And he has been a major dud.

Birth of Meletis was actually kind of good. It got me a land which Land Tax wouldn't have in that case (though, Land Tax wouldn't have gotten me more over the next couple turns) and gave me a creature to trigger Ephara. I am already not sure on Land Tax as it is and Birth is probably a worse version so I am not saying I would leave that in, but it is interesting to call out that it isn't a bad card by any means as it effectively ends up being another Wall of Omens that can't be flickered. Though, that in and of itself, is enough of a detriment that it isn't usually worth running.

Linvala saved Soulherder from an early wrath which was nice. It didn't end up mattering much but it was still nice to see her doing something.

I had Ephemerate for the longest time in hand and, while I never used it, it gave me the option of "comboing" with Venser if I needed to get another use out of him at some point. I didn't get most of my good creatures so it was really a dead card for the most part, but I still kept coming up with plans for my cards where it was a potentially crucial component.

As I said above, Whitemane Lion really pulled its weight here and I have no complaints at all.

Familiar reducing the costs of my white spells was also exceptional and I found I did have a fair bit of use out of two of them.

I am definitely looking forward to trying out some of the new cards once they release online in a couple days as I want to see how much they can do in the deck.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Yea familiar+lion = doin the lord's work for sure in this deck :) I've actually gotten some decent mileage out of Sunscape Familiar as well. This deck does a lot of recasting the same spells so you can often set it up so it's generating multiples of mana in a cycle, which outperforms mana rocks and they're also dudes.
WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
Soulherder's trigger has never looked so good and to go from a board of a 2/2 Soulherder and 2 Familiars (and a Wall) to a 30/30 Soulherder just came out of left field for all of us and managed to take my opponents by surprise.
I have gotten that exact same kill condition pretty much where I Winds of Abandon'd a board and killed an entire board with two soulherders (one cloned). It's very easy to forget and very very satisfying when it goes off out of nowhere. I've done a smaller impression of that with Eldrazi Displacer blinking blockers and making a soulherder a 12/12 as well.

re: Barrin
Yep he's slow and wonky

re: The Birth of Meletis

Tithe is usually better. Instant and snapcasterable and sometimes gets you 2 non-basic plains.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

pokken wrote:
3 years ago
re: The Birth of Meletis

Tithe is usually better. Instant and snapcasterable and sometimes gets you 2 non-basic plains.
I remember adding Birth of Meletis to see if the token mattered since it triggers Ephara. It worked really well in this last game, but it only does so much.

I agree on Tithe over Meletis. However, being that Meletis is here for Land Tax, I am actually thinking I might like Tithe over Land Tax as well.

My major issue with Land Tax has always been the issue of getting it late and just not getting it to trigger. Turn 1 or 2 is often really good to ensure I hit land drops, but there is a point where it is dead whereas Tithe doesn't have that. I will change that up for now technically taking out Land Tax to do it since that is what the list actually has. That might be wrong, but I do prefer Tithe over Land Tax. Though I have been vocal of my skepticism of Land Tax in the past (right or wrong) so my preference of Tithe over it isn't exactly surprising.
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

One thing I forgot to mention is that Tithe being an instant is a huge advantage with fetches too as you can crack a fetch then tithe while it's on the stack - I know you'd considered adding vista/strand/passage. A tiny edge really but pretty worth thinking bout.

(if you do that online remember to hold control while you crack the fetch)

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

That is a very good point as well and one that I will have to keep in mind. I did indeed add Vista, Strand, and Passage to this deck so the opportunity is there. I clearly don't have the full number of fetches I could have (there are 7 "real" fetch lands I could put in after all plus Vista and Passage) so that certainly changes the possibility of that play happening but there is still a chance.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

I picked up a few commander legends cards online and decided to play a game with the deck. I left out Jeweled Lotus (and still don't have Skyclave Apparition) due to cost. So, Sea-Dasher Octopus and Leonin Relic Warder are still in the deck for now.

The game was against Sengir, the Dark Baron & Sakashima of a Thousand Faces partners with Gyruda, Doom of Depths as their Companion, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis, and Nikya of the Old Ways.

Interestingly, I didn't even realize Gyruda wasn't the commander until I watched the replay of the game for this summary. They did cast Sakashima eventually, but Baron never left the command zone.

I started off with 3 lands and a Mana Crypt so I was poised for a turn 2 Ephara into a turn 3 Keeper of the Accord. However, Kynaois cast a turn one Eladamri's Vineyard. They did this off of a Forbidden Orchard and they gave me the token.

This really messed up the flow of the game. I am generally not a fan of these types of cards and it really showed here. Partners was rewarded with what was arguably a greedy keep as they missed a bunch of land drops but Vineyard pulled them out. And Nikya ended up with 5 mana at the end of turn 2 (8 on turn 3 with their land drop and the Vineyard).

But, whatever. I cast Mana Crypt, into Signet, into Ephara and passed. Partners cast Fellwar Stone and put Gyruda into their hand. Kynaios cast a Folio of Fancies and a Heartbeat of Spring. Luckily, Nikya blew up the Heartbeat

Nikya still had mostly small creatures on their side along with Nikya but they were really starting to get a board. On my turn, I cast Keeper of the Accord. This only got me 1-2 tokens per turn cycle and 1 land since only Nikya had more lands than me. Nikya also blew up my Mana Crypt so the additional lands were very welcome.

I went to my turn and cast a Talisman with the Vineyard mana and passed the turn. I had gotten a land off of a Pir's Whim Kynaios had cast. Partners started their turn and cast Gyruda. They ended up with an Archfiend of Despair and a Sower of Discord thanks to Gyruda and a Dance of the Dead. Sower named me and Nikya.

They attacked me with Ghalta, Primal Hunger which caused me to lose 24 life total but so did Nikya. I went a little greedy here and decided to not use Kor Haven. I figured with the Cyclonic Rift and Niambi, Esteemed Speaker in hand I could survive the next attack and gain some life (Archfiend would need to go for the latter to work though).

Partners had a couple Gyrudas on the field at this point and a pretty significant board state. Especially considering they were only at 4 lands. That Vineyard was really putting in work for them.

So, they became a bit of the target and I kept getting tokens from Orchard and Keeper but really couldn't do a lot with them. So, I hung back for most of the game.

Partners got another Gyruda into a Razaketh, the Foulblooded which they used to get Lightning Greaves I think. I cast Swords in response to get rid of it.

Kynaios was finally starting to do more on their own board with Temple Bell and Orzhov Advokist but they were pretty far behind. Nikya kept going off and a few times they were just trying to get Nikya off the table so they could cast a spell. Turns out they had Primal Surge in their hand. They did cast it later and it was sort of a dud. They got a few permanents, but hit their Genesis Wave causing it to stop.

I continued just committing to the board bit by bit while holding up removal and Rift mana. I did end up casting Teferi's Protection in response to being attacked. It might have been a little premature but I really wanted a turn where I was out of the weeds. It did mean I lost out on a Keeper trigger though.

Eventually, I ran through my removal trying to stop Partners and then Nikya cast something to bounce their Ghalta and they just scooped it up from there. They missed a lot of land drops and were probably out of gas to get more Gyrudas but they certainly made it a game with only having 5 or 6 lands at the end of the game.

After that, Nikya tried to kill my Dream Eater I had cast earlier but I saved it with Niambi to gain some life. Kynaios was really starting to do stuff now with Smothering Tithe, Teferi's Ageless Insight, Temple Bell, and Rites of Flourishing.

They ended up getting over 8 Treasures in one turn cycle since we didn't want to pay for Tithe and we kept drawing a bunch of cards. They were tapped though thanks to Manglehorn. So, on my turn, with Partners having scooped, and Nikya at 8 life (primarily because of that early Ghalta hit I took) I just cast Cyclonic Rift to bounce everything and swung into Nikya. I couldn't swing into Kynaios since I took the offer from the Advokist last upkeep thinking I would want a bigger creature to block something from Partners, but it didn't matter.

Now, with just me and Kynaios, they tried to rebuild with Ghostly Prison and Teferi's Ageless Insight, but I just bounced the Prison with the Dream Eater I saved and they scooped it up.

I didn't realize this was a thing for "normal" games, but at the end, I got a prompt to vote for a favorite player. I got 2 votes (plus a third for winning I think). I voted for Nikya because I thought they played pretty well and one of the others got the other vote. I can't remember who got it though. I'd like to think Kynaios didn't but that is just because I don't like Group Hug :P

Keeper was pretty good here, even though 2 opponents were missing land drops. Had either Partners or Kynaios actually kept up on lands, I would have gotten even further ahead and been able to keep up with Nikya even better. The tokens were also really good to get Ephara to trigger 2 or so times each turn.

I did see Sakashima's Protege and it was basically a dud. I could never find the right time to cast it. I really want to too since I figured the Cascade could be decent but I always wanted to hold up mana for other things. I did think about firing it off one turn and I probably should have since I wasn't using it for anything else. I am not sure where this card will end up but maybe it does need to be a more aggressive card where I just fire it off at the end of an opponent's turn to see what I get. It isn't really in the spirit of the rest of the deck though so I am not sure.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

I think Keeper of the Accord is going to overperform online because 1) people don't tend to recognize how overpowering ephara's CA can be, and 2) people play fewer removal spells and sweepers than in person (in my experience anyway). But I'm still stoked it was good as my meta locally tends to be critter and land ramp heavy.

Sandbagging that rift as a win condition is usually right, and it's how I tend to play it. The rules of control deck 1-1 still kinda apply which is that you play your sweepers when it will cost you the game to not play them. You're playing not to lose when you're in that role vs. trying to win most of the time.. Good stuff :)

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

After thinking more on mana bases and what I do and don't have in decks, I have decided to add in Sea of Clouds. It is a small change, but I am thinking it might be worth it. The cut, as always, is the toughest to come up with, but this is what I am going to go with:
12/02/20

CUTS

ADDS

Approximate Total Cost:

I am not sure what ends up being the right call here, but I am thinking an Island probably is. The deck is pretty well split between White and Blue, it does seem like more often spells need double or triple white compared to needing double blue. And I still want to leave enough Plains for Emeria.
Last edited by WizardMN 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Oh boy, do I have a ridiculous game I just finished. The game ended on turn 5 and was against Gyruda, Doom of Depths and Gyruda, Doom of Depths (yeah, two Gyruda decks). Technically the second Gyruda deck was Muldrotha, the Gravetide with Gyruda as a Companion but I am going to refer to it as a Gyruda deck anyway. The other person disconnected right away.

I started with 3 lands (one being Prismatic Vista), Sol Ring, and Faerie Artisans. I also had Tithe in hand along with Eerie Interlude.

I started with Plains → Sol Ring intending to just slam Ephara next turn. But Gyruda #1 started with Sol Ring as well and end then cast Thran Dynamo right after. Gyruda #2 had 3 lands (one off a Nature's Lore), Grim Monolith, and a Signet. So, clearly, Gyruda was coming down next from someone. Which meant I had to do the only reasonable thing: I cast Faerie Artisans.

As expected, Gyruda cast their general. This gave me a Gyruda. The Gyruda trigger gave me a Stunt Double from Gyruda #2 which I, of course, used to copy Artisans.

Gyruda #1's trigger resolved and they got a copy of Gyruda (named Sakashima the Impostor) which gave me two copies. The first one to resolve gave me my Gilded Drake which I used to steal Gyruda's original Gyruda. The next trigger got me Dragonlord Silumgar which I used to steal Sakashima.

Their Sakashima trigger then got a clone and they cloned Silumgar targeting my Faerie Artisans. This is where I really messed up. I wasn't thinking so when I get the token copy, I targeted their Silumgar so they couldn't actually steal my Artisans. Only I accidentally kept the original which meant that me stealing theirs didn't happen.

So, they got my Artisans (I kept their Gyruda at least). So, at the end of that turn (which was turn 3 mind you), I had Artisans, Gyruda, and Silumgar. Gyruda #1 had Artisans, Gilded Drake, and Silumgar.

Gyruda #2 started their turn and cast Skyshroud Claim and Regrowth to get back their Damnation into their hand. They passed the turn and were tapped out.

I started my turn and cast Charming Prince to Flicker my Drake. This gave Gyruda #1 a Prince to flicker their Gyruda. Their Gyruda entered and got them a Tidespout Tyrant which gave me a Tidespout Tyrant. My Gyruda trigger resolved giving me Thassa, Deep-Dwelling. My Drake re-entered and I stole their Tyrant while the Drake they got stole back Thassa.

On their turn, they copied Tyrant which gave me another Tyrant. Then they reanimated a clone to clone Silumgar. Which I think was a mistake. This meant they needed to put one in the graveyard so they wouldn't steal anything or they would give me my Artisans back. They decided not to steal anything. So, the copy I got just stole their Silumgar so I got my Artisans anyway.

They flickered Gyruda with Thassa so I got two new Gyrudas. I got a Venser, Shaper Savant which bounced my Drake to my hand. The next trigger got me Sakashima of a Thousand Faces which copied Gyruda to get another clone to just bounce a land from Gyruda #2 (I was getting sort of bored here and wanted this turn to just end). Gyruda #1 got a Consecrated Sphinx so I got two of them.

I drew 4 cards next turn and then just stopped drawing cards. Gyruda #1 was tapped out but there was no reason to prolong this process since I was still only at 5 mana.

Gyruda #2 cast Demonic Tutor and then cast Damnation. I cast Eerie Interlude for the sole reason of saving my Faerie Artisans though I was able to save the Prince too. They just scooped in response (which I didn't totally get; Artisans and Prince isn't all that scary when people aren't casting Gyrudas), But, it worked out. I still exiled stuff though Gyruda #1 still had their board.

The next turn was exceptionally fun for me. I cast Drake again stealing their Tidespout Tyrant they had (they had bounced both of mine earlier). I them cast Path to Exile on their Gyruda, which let me bounce Drake back to my hand. I had just enough mana to them cast Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate which bounced their Thran Dynamo to try to slow them down at least a little. I left them with Thassa because I figured even if they could do something, I would get use out of them blinking it because of my Artisans.

I was then able to swing out for 18 and passed the turn. They drew, didn't draw anything relevant, and scooped. Technically, I only got 4 turns (they scooped on their turn 5 and they started the game). This game was just exceptionally convoluted and crazy and, for the most part, was pretty fun. I basically did nothing beyond cast Artisans and just run with that over the course of the game. Probably the most important play of the game (or the one I am most proud of) was copying the Artisans over trying to copy Gyruda to keep triggers going. Doubling up on triggers allowed me to get ahead of my opponent and would have allowed for more if I had handled that one interaction correctly so I never lost one of them.

This game could have gone a completely different way and it just goes to show how utterly crazy Gyruda is. But I am glad I was sort of able to turn the tables on them and use their own strategy against them. Nothing else to really comment on here since this wasn't even close to a "real" game. But it does make for a very cool game summary.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Artisans games often get pretty crazy. It functions as hatebear for most creature combos that rely on etbs which is very nice. I really wish they had printed it in foil in cmr legends.

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Post by umtiger » 3 years ago

I'm not sure about the board states of the games that you mentioned, but let's say you switched spots with those Gyruda pilots.

Would you have done the same thing and continued to play into an onboard Faerie Artisans? Seems to me, I'd try to remove that before doing Gyurada stuff.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

umtiger wrote:
3 years ago
I'm not sure about the board states of the games that you mentioned, but let's say you switched spots with those Gyruda pilots.

Would you have done the same thing and continued to play into an onboard Faerie Artisans? Seems to me, I'd try to remove that before doing Gyurada stuff.
The board states were basically: Me with Artisans, Gyruda #1 and #2 with mana (either rocks or lands).

As to whether I would play into that, I have no idea. I do understand the power of Artisans though; perhaps they just didn't? Perhaps they thought that they could come out ahead because of the Gyruda triggers? After all, it is just a 1 for 1 so it just depends on who gets what. That is why I think one of the more important plays to make there was simply copying the Artisans rather than trying to do what they are doing and copying Gyruda over and over since that means it is no longer a 1 for 1 and instead means I always come out further ahead than they do.

Obviously, in hindsight, trying to go off there was a mistake. At the very least, continuing it on turn 4 was absolutely wrong. They already saw what happened on their turn 3; why try to add more fuel to the fire on turn 4?

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Post by umtiger » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
Obviously, in hindsight, trying to go off there was a mistake. At the very least, continuing it on turn 4 was absolutely wrong. They already saw what happened on their turn 3; why try to add more fuel to the fire on turn 4?
Yeah, I wonder what was in their hand or what they were hoping to get from their library?

Either way, non-optimal plays sometimes lead to interesting games.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Doing it even once should have been immediately obviously wrong. You could have easily combo'd out on top of them. Gyruda player probably just failed to understand Artisans and didn't realize you could have just infinited them before their first Gyruda trigger even resolved. :P

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Now that we have the entire set spoiled, as well as the Commander Decks, here are some of the cards that stand out to me for this deck:

White Cards

Cosmic Intervention - There has been some pretty good debate on @pokken's thread about this card, but I think it is something I want to try. Obviously, the interaction with fetches does put it over something like Brought Back and I do like the "protection" it gives against wraths. I am not sure if it is really needed, especially with the addition of Glorious Protector, but it seems like it has some good uses. The best comparison is that to Eerie Interlude and Ghostway. While it doesn't protect against exile and bounce like those do, it does bring back noncreatures which can sometimes be important. I think swapping it for Ghostway is probably right.

Doomskar - A cheap wrath. I don't really know if the deck needs it since my wraths are more general, but it is something worth calling out. I think if I was running Wrath of God, this would make it in over that. And in metas where a 3 mana wrath is important (taking two turns up of course) it isn't bad. I just don't think it is quite right here.

Glorious Protector - As mentioned above, this is basically a creature version of Intervention, or Ghostway really. It doesn't bring them back right away but it has more combo potential with Displacer, Soulherder, and Thassa, and it also allows for some different timing in terms of when to have things return. That is, if I really wanted to save everything I could. And then I could just sit on it for a few turns where everything is just in exile. Let others commit to the board, wrath the board, and now I not only saved my board but also made opponents waste resources trying to build a board presence. The ability to simply wait on brining things back I think is really nice. The lack of control over when the Protector leaves is less nice but I still think it is definitely something that should be in this deck.

Sigrid, God-Favored - Its got Flash and it is removal. I doubt it is really all that great, but it is two things Ephara generally wants so I am willing to look at it as a potential. It is definitely "B-List" for now, but I don't think it is awful by any means.

Blue Cards

Cosima, God of the Voyage - I think this has some real potential to get some "free" Ephara triggers. I don't think I would use the back side too often, though it does help hit land drops. It seems like a worthwhile card to include anyway and I am willing to try it out to see what it does.

Multicolor Cards

Niko Aris - This almost seems good? The Shards are useful, if a bit expensive to get, but the removal option and the ability to bounce a creature (and get in damage) seem like they could be really good here. In my mind, I think they are best played either as a 3 or 4 drop. That is, without really trying to take advantage of getting Shards. I don't think the deck has the room for them, but I wouldn't mind trying to make them work for the first loyalty ability alone.

Colorless and Land Cards

Gates of Istfell - I think if I was playing Blighted Cataract this would be a reasonable addition or swap. But I don't like that it enters tapped and I am not sure the ability is really all that useful here. Ephara should already be keeping our hand full. It is a decent safety valve if needed though so I could see cutting an Island for it. I wouldn't want to cut a Plains, even though that makes the most sense, because I feel I am going too low for Emeria as it is.

Hengegate Pathway - More potential mana fixing. The Pathways have started to grow on me and I don't think it would be a bad thing to try to slot this in here.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

So, with the new cards I mentioned above, I am potentially looking at the following changes:

Jeweled Lotus is just far too expensive and it is something I was already on the fence about. I never got it online and I am never going to get it in paper with the way prices are, so I might as well just cut it.

Cloudblazer is a card I really like but I am going to see if the addition of Cosima is enough to offset that. I think it will be.

Ghostway is being replaced by both Intervention and Protector. Both do slightly different things but I prefer them over Ghostway. Depending on how well they work, this could lead me to removing Eerie Interlude in the future as well.

Niambi has been discussed a bit but her main use of bouncing a creature seems to be fulfilled by Niko. It isn't the exact same obviously, but Niko being truly repeatable seems better. I generally shy away from Walkers due to needing to protect them so I will see what they do here.

Dream Eater is an awesome card in this deck. Or, at least, I like it a lot. But 6 mana has always been nagging me and I think with the (trial) addition of Sigrid, it is worth cutting it for now to see how much I really miss it.

And, the Islands are being cut for the two new lands. As mentioned above, it is strange to cut a blue land for one that produces white but I don't want to go too far away from Plains so I will see how this works out. I mentioned before that I don't think Gates is a spectacular land, but I am willing to try it out to see what it can do (if anything).

The additions were already mentioned above but, in short: Intervention lets me re-use ETBs and fetches while saving noncreatures on my board, Protector does a reasonable Ghostway imitation but on a creature, Sigrid is removal and flash so I will try her out, Cosima can potentially trigger a draw for Ephara every turn or just store up for a larger card draw, and Niko bounces my stuff and could act as removal.

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