Toxrill's Toxic Control - Counterspell Tribal

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
2 years ago
So, just speaking from experience with Niv-Mizzet: even though a third of my deck is draw, i still struggle to deal with all the aggro that comes my way. You can't counter or spot remove every single relevant threat. It's why I've been considering something like Ensnaring Bridge , Propaganda, or Crawlspace in that deck also because they end up having an efficient interaction vs card advantage ratio.

But yes, testing will be the best way to know what steps to take to hone the deck.
Yeah my expectation is not that I'll remove every threat, just that I'll be able to interact enough to not get domed for 40. Realistically I should be able to stabilize from 10 or less (especially since I'm not fetching so much should give me a small extra life buffer).

In some ways I envy the simplicity of Niv just getting to jam Blasphemous Act Chain Reaction etc. since niv doesn't care if creatures are there to get slugs off of, but that UUURRR mana cost creates its own deckbuilding challenges :)

Tags:

User avatar
RowanKeltizar
Firemind
Posts: 531
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico
Contact:

Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
In some ways I envy the simplicity of Niv just getting to jam Blasphemous Act Chain Reaction etc. since niv doesn't care if creatures are there to get slugs off of, but that UUURRR mana cost creates its own deckbuilding challenges
Yeah, I do like to watch the board get deleted. My favorite play is All Is Dust, then Time Spiral, or Cyclonic Rift then Winds of Change, hehehee

As for his casting cost, yep... it's an obstacle. You can't use colorless ramp to accelerate into him. I am also getting to the point where the only colorless land I want to be running Reliquary Tower. Having a colorless land in the first 6 turns can feel really bad if it pushed Niv to turn 7, although rare. The treasure producing "rituals" have been really helpful. I can get a turn 4 Niv pretty consistently now.

What about running things like Polymorphist's Jest or Mass Diminish? These have decent usefulness early game to stall damage without an actual boardwipe and lategame, you can make slugs immediately on your end step.

What are your thoughts on Skullclamp? Those slugs are more efficiently used this way. Paying 1 to draw 2 is better than UB to draw 1.
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
Image

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
2 years ago

What about running things like Polymorphist's Jest or Mass Diminish? These have decent usefulness early game to stall damage without an actual boardwipe and lategame, you can make slugs immediately on your end step.

What are your thoughts on Skullclamp? Those slugs are more efficiently used this way. Paying 1 to draw 2 is better than UB to draw 1.
Those aren't bad. I think sudden spoiling might be better overall but a mix of those might be good. They basically are fogs that are great late game so that's pretty reasonable. I do like the blue ones for pitching to force.

Skullclamp is problematic because of being so bad in the early game. Tox ability can be done as an instant so kinda flexible there. I think I'd be more inclined toward a more generic draw spell or standalone draw engine most likely?

User avatar
duducrash
Still Learning
Posts: 1199
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

I'm brewing my own version of Toxrill, the Corrosive too!

Have you considered Flux Channeler I quite enjoyed the times I had out in my limited testing.

I also run Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet it's another payoff for when Toxrill is going on.

User avatar
plaganegra
Jeff
Posts: 398
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Buffalo NY

Post by plaganegra » 2 years ago

I feel like you would get a lot of value out of mana vault and grim monolith in this deck. Casting toxrill several turns earlier seems good.

Toxrill seems like such a cool deck, and I think with some tweaking your version could be so cool. I just picked one up in case I want to tinker with you lol
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Beckett Brass, Chatterfang, Evelyn, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Breya, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat.
MTG since 2003

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
I'm brewing my own version of Toxrill, the Corrosive too!

Have you considered Flux Channeler I quite enjoyed the times I had out in my limited testing.

I also run Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet it's another payoff for when Toxrill is going on.
At least right this minute I don't have a ton of room for critters who don't draw cards, but I think Flux Channeler might be better than Thrummingbird. It's possible that the enchantment version of that effect would be better period.

The whole proliferate thing has me with a hankering to get Mage-Ring Network in there honestly, I had to cut it earlier but those lands are so darn good with proliferate.

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet seems reasonable; excellent blocker, makes zombies randomly for more blockers.

I'm mostly thinking about cards through the lens of what they do pre-tox these days since realistically if you stick tox you're in darn good shape.
plaganegra wrote:
2 years ago
I feel like you would get a lot of value out of mana vault and grim monolith in this deck. Casting toxrill several turns earlier seems good.

Toxrill seems like such a cool deck, and I think with some tweaking your version could be so cool. I just picked one up in case I want to tinker with you lol
As a general rule I just do not play monoliths if I'm not going to untap them - it might be very good, but just a personal ethic :)

That said, I think Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia might be reasonable inclusions given the whole proliferate subtheme. Might try getting a bit more in on that. Because of the synergy of proliferating with big mana it might ease some of the pressure on other areas of the deck.

I'm half-tempted to try the other proliferate lands again, there're enough I might be able to get that rocking.

User avatar
RowanKeltizar
Firemind
Posts: 531
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico
Contact:

Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Speaking from experience with Atraxa: I wouldn't advise leaning too heavily on proliferate. I think a few very strong enablers for Tox that you can tutor for or dig for are fine to include. Things like Inexorable Tide or possibly Flux Channeler but I wouldn't slot in too many things like Astral Cornucopia that rely on proliferate to be good, unless you are going really strong into that theme but as you said, I don't think there is room. Being Tox himself can't proliferate you are going to need A LOT of proliferate enablers to become consistent.

Even having proliferate in my command zone, I still ended up taking out some of the proliferating stuff like Mage-Ring Network or Pyramid of the Pantheon because I couldn't get enough consistency with them. A Thran Dynamo or Gilded Lotus has done way more work for me instead.

So yes, I would strongly consider the best proliferate stuff that can support Tox's ability, stuff like Inexorable Tide and Flux Channeler and possibly Tezzeret's Gambit or even Karn's Bastion but I wouldn't include that many things besides Tox himself that rely on proliferate to be good. Just my 2 cents.


I kind of wish Tox had been "whenever an opponent discards a card, proliferate" or "whenever a slug deals combat damage to player, proliferate" etc, instead of "at each end step" Would have encouraged more deckbuilding creativity.
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
Image

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
2 years ago
Speaking from experience with Atraxa: I wouldn't advise leaning too heavily on proliferate
So my Atraxa build went all in on the proliferate mana generation and the one thing that deck did was make an absolute comical amount of mana. But it struggled to win because it couldn't find payoffs for the mana reliably :P I would regularly be tapping Astral Cornucopia for 8 or 9, and being able to pull 20-30 counters off of lands for mana, but have nothing to cast.

I think you might be right here, but I'll say that the storage lands and Crystalline Crawler effects are probably a lot better when you don't need to cast your commander with 4 different types of colored mana on turn 3-4. Tox's much lower mana requirements and desire to be casted later make it quite a different game.

That said, I don't know that I could get critical mass of the effects to be able to go bananas like Atraxa did :)

for reference my old Atraxa deck -->

https://deckbox.org/sets/2195243

Man just thinking about Iceberg makes me happy :) hehe

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So this deck has legs, I think. It went off even against two creature light decks (urza and niv mizzet). What card let it go off?

Yawgmoth, Thran Physician + Dreadship Reef :P

I am fairly sure I am going to retune it a bit to have a bigger proliferate package, but the fundamental theory of interacting heavily with Toxrill to sweep the board is sound. I killed multiple 10/10 constructs from Urza over the course of the game with proliferating.

Coolest play? Stifleing a Arcane Denial trigger to keep Urza empty handed.

Proliferating Dreadship Reef was just fantastic, way overperformed my signets and stuff.

To be fair this was a 3 player game so easier to control but these guys were both loaded for bear with counterspells and much more powerful than my deck.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So while I enjoyed some aspects of this deck I just can't play normal ramp packages. I'm going to be retooling this with a larger proliferate package and probably a few nasty bombs. I'll probably get all the junk I need to finish that rebuild this week and get some games in Friday.

I have had so much fun historically tapping Astral Cornucopia for 11 that I think it'll just be more fun for me even if it's worse :P

User avatar
duducrash
Still Learning
Posts: 1199
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

I just had her ouf with Ertai, the Corrupted and it was awesome turning her slugs into counters

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Decklists”