Nethroi, Apex of Death: Beware the Whispers

[TheGildedGoose]

You need a haircut
You need a shoe shine
You need aristocratic
Glow-in-the dark erotic magnet

- Man Man, Top Drawer

Simply put, this is Nethroi, Apex of Death Aristocrats. It's not particularly revolutionary, given Nethroi's apparent popularity, but what I lack in originality I make up for in tunedness. Most Nethroi decks I've seen (and EDHREC seems to back me up) are either combo, mutate-focused, 0/0 tribal, or generic Abzan-y graveyard-y goodstuff-y which makes this approach comparatively novel. Even then, most of the aristocrat-centric decklists I found weren't as focused as this one, which almost entirely tries to accumulate lots of little dudes, then sacrifice them for the glory of God. They ran what I consider to be subpar cards, like Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, Teysa Karlov, mutate creatures, and generally speaking, too many noncreature spells.

So why Nethroi instead of, say, Ghave, Guru of Spores or Karador, Ghost Chieftain? Well, Ghave combos with everything and has a reputation for comboing with everything, so he tends to come with a target on his back. As for Karador, I believe him to be too slow for Aristocrats. Nethroi gives the archetype an explosiveness to end games in one or two turns, something Karador can't provide.

And man, can the deck be explosive. There are turns that take a while because of 8+ creatures hitting (then quickly leaving) the battlefield at once and everything that goes along with that. I'm still learning the deck, but I'm actually concerned that due to the sheer number of triggers that can happen at once some of my turns will be a snoozefest for my opponents while I resolve everything. That's why you practice, kids!

Anyway, here's the decklist:

Beware the Whispers

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Nethroi, Apex of Death

Lands: 36

1 Agadeem, the Undercrypt

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Boseiju, Who Endures

1 Bountiful Promenade

1 Branchloft Pathway

1 Brightclimb Pathway

1 Cavern of Souls

1 Command Tower

1 Darkbore Pathway

1 Deathcap Glade

1 Godless Shrine

1 Horizon Canopy

1 Indatha Triome

1 Isolated Chapel

1 Murmuring Bosk

1 Nurturing Peatland

1 Overgrown Farmland

1 Overgrown Tomb

1 Phyrexian Tower

1 Shattered Sanctum

1 Silent Clearing

1 Sunpetal Grove

1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

1 Temple Garden

1 Undergrowth Stadium

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Vault of Champions

1 Woodland Cemetery

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

2 Forest

1 Plains

4 Swamp

Ramp: 15

1 Sol Ring

1 Avacyn's Pilgrim

1 Birds of Paradise

1 Boreal Druid

1 Elves of Deep Shadow

1 Elvish Mystic

1 Fyndhorn Elves

1 Sakura-Tribe Elder

1 Llanowar Elves

1 Farhaven Elf

1 Pawn of Ulamog

1 Springbloom Druid

1 Wood Elves

1 Pitiless Plunderer

1 Solemn Simulacrum

Draw/Recursion: 20

1 Skullclamp

1 Stitcher's Supplier

1 Clattering Augur

1 Dusk Legion Zealot

1 Elvish Visionary

1 Rally the Ancestors

1 Spirited Companion

1 Wall of Blossoms

1 Wall of Omens

1 Death's Oasis

1 Eternal Witness

1 Grim Haruspex

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Beast Whisperer

1 Guardian Project

1 Luminous Broodmoth

1 Smothering Abomination

1 Living Death

1 Moldervine Reclamation

1 Eerie Ultimatum

Tutors: 4

1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Diabolic Intent

1 Recruiter of the Guard

Snackrifice: 9

1 Viscera Seer

1 Altar of Dementia

1 Plumb the Forbidden

1 Ashnod's Altar

1 Phyrexian Altar

1 Woe Strider

1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan

1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician

1 Krav, the Unredeemed

Removal: 7

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Knight of Autumn

1 Mythos of Nethroi

1 Reclamation Sage

1 Skyclave Apparition

1 Ravenous Chupacabra

1 Dusk // Dawn

Win Cons: 8

1 Corpse Knight

1 Cruel Celebrant

1 Zulaport Cutthroat

1 Bastion of Remembrance

1 Poison-Tip Archer

1 Tombstone Stairwell

1 Vindictive Vampire

1 Syr Konrad, the Grim

Approximate Total Cost:

Notes:

The major problem the deck runs into is consistency due to most cards being individually weak. It relies on heavy synergy between creature spam, sac outlets, and payoffs from those two. To fix this I run as many creatures that cantrip as I can to churn through the deck while also providing bodies to get rid of later. I run the five two mana value cantrip creatures and I'm even considering Callous Bloodmage due to the extra utility it brings. The new Fell Stinger looks pretty decent, too.

Is there such a thing as too much ramp? With what is effectively a seven mana commander and the synergy they have with the deck, I crammed virtually every playable ramp dork I could (sans Deathrite Shaman due to lack of fetches). All but one of them are mutate targets and most of them are one mana, which is great after a board wipe to deploy Nethroi. I'm worried I went a little overkill, though. Twelve is a lot.

Eternal Witness and Eerie Ultimatum is a fun strategy against removal.dec.

Does it need more sac outlets? The deck generates a lot of mana in the mid and late game so the sac outlets don't necessarily have to be free, though that's always a plus. Ten total sac outlets feels like a good place to statistically see one by turn five (74.3% without considering cantrip creatures), which is generally when you want to deploy it to start raking in the value. Here's a shortlist of cards I think are worth considering:

Carrion Feeder
Fiend Artisan
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
Lampad of Death's Vigil
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Ravenous Squirrel (sigh)

I think I'm running too much interaction. It pains me to cut removal, but the deck tends to be very proactive, so drawing too much removal early on stunts our development. I cut Swords to Plowshares because it isn't as versatile as the rest of the suite and I'm not sure if that's a mistake.

Are Teferi's Protection and Veil of Summer worthwhile here? I usually don't care if my creatures get removed since they're almost exclusively fodder, so board wipes aren't an issue. Countermagic on key pieces can hurt, but the majority of the deck is composed of individually mediocre cards. Who the hell is going to Counterspell Dusk Legion Zealot or Wood Elves?

I'm prepared to defend Rally the Ancestors. It's effectively an instant speed, one sided Living Death for the deck, given our deck's low mana curve. It can be risky if your sac outlet gets removed while it's on the stack, potentially losing your poor little minions, but the card has so much ceiling.

[pokken]

This deck looks super fun and very tuned.

I think your sac outlet count is fine but I would add Varolz, the Scar-Striped since he's a Green Sun's Zenith tutorable sac outlet, and GSZ gets basically one of every type of thing you need that way. And it's turn 1 ramp that doubles as a wincon with Dryad Arbor. Easy swap for one of the mana dorks (I'd cut Boreal Druid who is much worse). I think Varolz, the Scar-Striped is likely a good swap in for Krav, the Unredeemed who is just too expensive for this deck (in my opinion) but could swap in for Sadistic Hypnotist who is also fairly awkward.

I'd also think about Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt. The odds of it being able to help you close a game at X=5 is pretty high. It does overlap with Nethroi, Apex of Death but it's a land It has been stellar in my Varina, Lich Queen aristocrats deck.

Again, really cool. I love Rally the Ancestors and if it didn't cost WW in my 3 color Cabal Coffers deck I would run it too

Volrath's Stronghold likely will do a lot of work if you can find one. They're getting kinda pricy.

edit: last thing, I would consider Pitiless Plunderer to be a ramp spell.

[TheGildedGoose]

This deck looks super fun and very tuned.

I think your sac outlet count is fine but I would add Varolz, the Scar-Striped since he's a Green Sun's Zenith tutorable sac outlet, and GSZ gets basically one of every type of thing you need that way. And it's turn 1 ramp that doubles as a wincon with Dryad Arbor. Easy swap for one of the mana dorks (I'd cut Boreal Druid who is much worse). I think Varolz, the Scar-Striped is likely a good swap in for Krav, the Unredeemed who is just too expensive for this deck (in my opinion) but could swap in for Sadistic Hypnotist who is also fairly awkward.

I'd also think about Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt. The odds of it being able to help you close a game at X=5 is pretty high. It does overlap with Nethroi, Apex of Death but it's a land It has been stellar in my Varina, Lich Queen aristocrats deck.

Again, really cool. I love Rally the Ancestors and if it didn't cost WW in my 3 color Cabal Coffers deck I would run it too

Volrath's Stronghold likely will do a lot of work if you can find one. They're getting kinda pricy.

edit: last thing, I would consider Pitiless Plunderer to be a ramp spell.

Oh, good idea about GSZ and a sac outlet. Varolz looks like the best for that spot. I'm not sure about replacing Krav. He did work in my old Yawgmoth Aristocrats list, and though five mana is an awkward spot to sit at, man, drawing 3-4 cards for one mana is a great feeling. The Hypnotist is also five mana, but being free and stripping hands is just too powerful to turn down. I'm looking for at least one more sac outlet anyway, so Boreal Druid can swap out for Green Sun's Zenith and a Forest can go for Dryad Arbor, while Veil of Summer can go for Varolz, the Scar-Striped. Veil is a hard cut for me, but I often find myself indifferent to countermagic. Forcing Nethroi, Apex of Death through can be important, but it's too dead a lot of the time.

I had completely forgotten about Agadeem's Awakening! It replaces a Swamp easy peasy.

Thanks for the insight. The deck is a joy to pilot, though it can get a little monologue-y. I miss triggers all the time, which is why I'm practicing by goldfishing and taking my time to learn the interactions. "Do I have lethal?" is non-deterministic like a Storm deck which can be aggravating for some opponents. I don't think it's as bad as Storm decks that have to deal with a lot of variables; this deck can generally win through existing parts without card draw or tutoring, so it takes less time to execute.

I want to find room for Fiend Artisan as a sort of repeatable, better GSZ that can also be tutored up with GSZ. I wanted to avoid loading up on tutors but it doesn't take long for me to cave on my principles. Sylvan Caryatid comes back for free off of Nethroi and is theoretically good for protecting Nethroi, but I'm indifferent to someone destroying Nethroi. That just means I have easy access to it again to make another bomb play if something went wrong.

- Boreal Druid
- Veil of Summer
- Sylvan Caryatid
- Forest
- Swamp

+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Varolz, the Scar-Striped
+ Fiend Artisan
+ Dryad Arbor
+ Agadeem's Awakening

[yeti1069]

Yahenni, Undying Partisan is a solid sac outlet and target to mutate onto for Nethroi. It also benefits from the removal you have in the deck, and can swing in unexpectedly. I've liked having it in my Nethroi Brawl deck on Arena.

While Blood Artist doesn't hit everyone, it does trigger off everyone else's stuff dying, and at 0 power, it's free to recur with Nethroi.

I'd think that running more creature-based removal would play better with what the deck is doing. Ravenous Chupacabra, for example, or Cavalier of Dawn to hit anything, or Skyclave Apparition to hit a lot of stuff.

Scourge of the Skyclaves can have negative power in the graveyard and that calculates into Nethroi's total (ie, if someone is at 40 life, its power is -20, so Nethroi can get back 30 power worth of creatures).

I'd definitely be running boardwipes in here. As you mentioned, you can recur anything you need, so you can leverage that ability while still dealing with the table. It can be rough to board wipe into a field filled with your own mana dorks, but that looks like a reason to lean a little more on creatures that ramp out lands rather than almost exclusively on the dorks.

Some self-mill would likely be more valuable than some of the weaker cantrip creatures. The way I see Nethroi, you can either play into the ability in a big way, which means stocking your graveyard and ramping quickly to then bring a bunch of stuff back ASAP, or you can play out value creatures mixed with a few bombs, and then use Nethroi to recover after a wrath to just keep putting pressure on. What I'm seeing here is a list that doesn't really do either...you have some value creatures, a bunch of chaff, and basically 0 bombs, so even when you resolve a mutation, are you bringing back anything anyone cares about?

Craterhoof Behemoth (or something similar) would help turn the weenies into a wincon. Toski, Bearer of Secrets (or similar cards) could also help things chug along by getting value out of swinging with the weenies, and is a decent card to mutate onto.

I've liked Embodiment of Agonies as a free creature off Nethroi that can be HUGE when it comes in (it sees everything that was in the yard before resolving Nethroi's trigger, including itself), not to mention a late game body to carry your commander for some major damage with evasion.

[TheGildedGoose]

Some self-mill would likely be more valuable than some of the weaker cantrip creatures. The way I see Nethroi, you can either play into the ability in a big way, which means stocking your graveyard and ramping quickly to then bring a bunch of stuff back ASAP, or you can play out value creatures mixed with a few bombs, and then use Nethroi to recover after a wrath to just keep putting pressure on. What I'm seeing here is a list that doesn't really do either...you have some value creatures, a bunch of chaff, and basically 0 bombs, so even when you resolve a mutation, are you bringing back anything anyone cares about?

I think we have fundamentally different approaches here. Sure, you can do either of those, but I haven't personally seen those decks have much success. At their core, those are fair decks, but this is an unfair format. My deck is, in fact, a lowkey combo deck that operates like Storm, and big turns of mutating Nethroi two or three times to recycle your battlefield and graveyard to kill everyone in one fell swoop are common. What non-combo bombs are you cheating out with Nethroi that are more threatening than that? But more importantly, why bother with the attack step at all when I can just drain everyone out at the same time, all while keeping a low threat profile until it's too late?

And, hey, don't knock chaff. One man's trash is another goose's treasure.

Yahenni, Undying Partisan is a solid sac outlet and target to mutate onto for Nethroi. It also benefits from the removal you have in the deck, and can swing in unexpectedly. I've liked having it in my Nethroi Brawl deck on Arena.

I'd think that running more creature-based removal would play better with what the deck is doing. Ravenous Chupacabra, for example, or Cavalier of Dawn to hit anything, or Skyclave Apparition to hit a lot of stuff.

I'd definitely be running boardwipes in here. As you mentioned, you can recur anything you need, so you can leverage that ability while still dealing with the table. It can be rough to board wipe into a field filled with your own mana dorks, but that looks like a reason to lean a little more on creatures that ramp out lands rather than almost exclusively on the dorks.

Craterhoof Behemoth (or something similar) would help turn the weenies into a wincon. Toski, Bearer of Secrets (or similar cards) could also help things chug along by getting value out of swinging with the weenies, and is a decent card to mutate onto.

Yahenni is an interesting inclusion that opens up more lines of play, theoretically making commander damage a viable option. I'm not crazy about the card but free, instant speed sac outlets are really strong in the deck, so it's certainly worth testing. Fiend Artisan didn't do much the couple of times I saw it. Too slow and expensive, so that's an easy switch.

It only makes sense to make the removal package synergize more with the commander. Cupacabra and Apparition are both solid includes over the underperforming Plaguecrafter and redundant Foundation Breaker.

Board wipes are an okay suggestion, this isn't a control deck. It's very much a proactive strategy, even if it is grindy. I'm not sure which ones are worth running. The Meathook Massacre and Dusk // Dawn seem like slam dunk inclusions, but what about Austere Command? I run 6 cards that deal with all permanents (well, only half of them hit lands, but still) so I'm more concerned about pinpoint removal of problematic permanents rather than trying to blow out the artifact player. I think I'll cut Teferi's Protection and Bastion of Remembrance for the two I mentioned earlier.

Hoof is probably good in a random, "Oops, I win now" kind of way, especially with a late game GSZ or other tutor. That said, it doesn't synergize with the core gameplan, and the purist in me finds that distasteful. Toski on the other hand is probably good enough to get in on the basis of "Edric is a good Magic card" alone. Death's Oasis fills a similar card advantage role in a different way, but direct card draw is often better than self-milling, even here, so I'll make that switch.

- Fiend Artisan
- Plaguecrafter
- Foundation Breaker
- Teferi's Protection
- Bastion of Remembrance
- Death's Oasis

+ Yahenni, Undying Partisan
+ Ravenous Chupacabra
+ Skyclave Apparition
+ The Meathook Massacre
+ Dusk // Dawn
+ Toski, Bearer of Secrets

Scourge of the Skyclaves can have negative power in the graveyard and that calculates into Nethroi's total (ie, if someone is at 40 life, its power is -20, so Nethroi can get back 30 power worth of creatures).

Interesting. I like this. I kind of want to explore a list that exploits this interaction.

[TheGildedGoose]

Well, I've been tinkering with this deck behind the scenes off and on since I stopped updating the thread, and I've now fully updated the OP with the current decklist. Too many individual changes to note, but the deck is pretty cohesive and runs very smoothly. The only bad thing I can say about it at the moment is that it can be mildly inconsistent, like most EDH decks.