Queen Breena's Full Contact Politics

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

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This deck is the next iteration of my removal and combat shenanigan heavy orzhov superfriends deck. I found the planeswalkers to just be too clunky and slow, struggling to cast them consistently and struggling to close games outside of voltron damage.

This new build plays a lot of powerhouse angels and demons and a few ways to reanimate them or reuse them, though not excessively slow, essentially looking to stick a couple powerhouse threats and ride them to victory.

Overall it's going well conceptually, though the removal and combat control package is going to remain in flux.

The centerpiece of this deck remains the come-from-behind ramp package, which is a huge work in progress but that seems to be going well. Second major theme that seems to work well that has been sticking is the Monarchy theme. Loads of removal and combat shenanigans combined with a gummy board plus mazes makes losing the monarchy challenging.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I had a game with this tonight against The Gitrog Monster midrange lands, Krav, the Unredeemed and Regna, the Redeemer lifegain/aristocrats, and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow high powered ninja bullcrap.

This game was very close; I kept a 1 lander with Weathered Wayfarer and rode it to land drops, with the new addition of Orzhov Basilica proving itself to be great here (essentially getting me 2 land drops in 1), then Land Tax helping out a little.

The critical turn of this game came when I stuck Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Breena, the Demagogue and had a bunch of counters on them, and was prepping up to cast Hour of Revelation plus Flawless Maneuver to make a million zombies off the huge board -- but Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow forced my hand by casting Elspeth, Sun's Champion off the top with some ninja bullcrap from Regna, the Redeemer, then minusing her. I had to blow Flawless Maneuver there which was unfortunate.

Still, Yuriko had amassed an unassailable board, but I got to untap and put some damage on him and Krav/Regna, then I went for a Toxic Deluge for x=5 which would have left me with a huge board -- but Yuriko countered it. Then I followed up with Hour of Revelation leaving me with 11 zombies from Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet which was enough to close the game out.

After I killed Yuriko and Krav/Regna I was able to Scholarship Sponsor myself +4 lands and, having left Gitrog with an empty board, he scooped to my zombie swarm (plus sponsor, hawk, and my full hand).

Overall I think my curve toppers might be a bit too expensive, with cards like Archon of Cruelty regularly rotting in my hand while 3 and 4 drops like Kalitas do great. I find myself wondering if this might be a Stoneforge Mystic deck rather than a Archon of Coronation deck, but I'm still going to noodle on that quite a bit. Breena really, really does not like protection swords or Lightning Greaves which makes things kinda awkward with equipment (used to have a Sword of Truth and Justice but the nonbo was offputting).

It's also possible that going for persist combo with a little more +1/+1 counter theme would be better, with cards like Archangel of Thune and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit.

The core of the deck being Breena plus the goofy come-from-behind ramp seems to be going very well but I think filling out the rest is going to take some work.

Another kinda theme that's struck my fancy is the idea of protecting Breena with reanimationish effects like Sun Titan, Angelic Renewal, Reanimate and similar. A problem with those is that they lose all of her counters. Really wish there were more Flawless Maneuver effects, and stuff like Heroic Intervention in white.



A couple other things I might like to explore as themes:

Proclamation of Rebirth + 1 drops, or Ranger of Eos.dec.

Just very efficient beatdown dudes like Hero of Bladehold and Brimaz, King of Oreskos, maybe even Precinct Captain? Probably a few other similar 2-5 cmc guys who put a lot of pressure on. Adeline, Resplendent Cathar is another recent one that's quite good.

The interesting thing about Breena's ability is that her ability go super tall and only ever need to attack with 2 creatures makes 1) evasion very good, and 2) creatures that get out of hand or have good keywords like lifelink and vigilance also very good.

Lifegain and lifegain trigger stuff can be good, but you really don't need a swarm, or want to force other people to sweep. You just want to swing at the two people who have the highest life every turn and get through. Given Lifegain's ability go go super tall with Ajani's Pridemate effects that might be something to think on. Just wonder if I can get them through blockers? Dunno.

A card like Sunscorch Regent seems like it might fit the bill as a kinda template, maybe stuff like Wingmate Roc?

I did add Esper Sentinel recently and he looks to be very good.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Breena really, really does not like protection swords or Lightning Greaves which makes things kinda awkward with equipment (used to have a Sword of Truth and Justice but the nonbo was offputting).
I swear that her ability had a target in it, because someone I was playing against pointed that out so triumphantly that I even saw target on the card.

Breena's ability does not target, so swords are perfectly viable. Man, that's annoying. I lost that game and the player seemed so sure.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

Have you looked at Queen Marchesa politics/aikido? That sounds like it might be a direction for this to evolve to: removal and answers galore. And Stoneforge Mystic gets to play directly into that removal package by fetching the king of toolboxing: Sunforger!

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
Have you looked at Queen Marchesa politics/aikido? That sounds like it might be a direction for this to evolve to: removal and answers galore. And Stoneforge Mystic gets to play directly into that removal package by fetching the king of toolboxing: Sunforger!
I've definitely thought about it but Breena is just so much more explosive than Marchesa. I think this deck will continue to share a lot of cards with that one, but Breena has a few key things going to differentiate her.

* Potential for growing up to +16 in one turn cycle (assuming everyone makes two breena attacks); typically, Breena grows +4 or +6 per turn cycle.
* Her ability to reward people for attacking places yet more life total pressure, making closing the game easier. Marchesa's design encourages board stalls, conversely.
* Draws more cards (I am set up to usually get two triggers on my turn).

I'm not a huge fan of Sunforger -- I know it has a big cult around it but equip 3 is just not as efficient as I want to be. I definitely get the niceness of being able to tutor up say Comeuppance but man that's a ton of mana :)

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Wowwwww- I misread Breena, the Demagogue and thought you were capped at one card.

Makes more sense now why you're interested!

Is there a reason you're not doubling up on the plan with Orzhov Advokist ? I've seen that card do impressive things for speeding up games and keeping the controller safe.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
Have you looked at Queen Marchesa politics/aikido? That sounds like it might be a direction for this to evolve to: removal and answers galore. And Stoneforge Mystic gets to play directly into that removal package by fetching the king of toolboxing: Sunforger!
I've definitely thought about it but Breena is just so much more explosive than Marchesa. I think this deck will continue to share a lot of cards with that one, but Breena has a few key things going to differentiate her.

* Potential for growing up to +16 in one turn cycle (assuming everyone makes two breena attacks); typically, Breena grows +4 or +6 per turn cycle.
* Her ability to reward people for attacking places yet more life total pressure, making closing the game easier. Marchesa's design encourages board stalls, conversely.
* Draws more cards (I am set up to usually get two triggers on my turn).

I'm not a huge fan of Sunforger -- I know it has a big cult around it but equip 3 is just not as efficient as I want to be. I definitely get the niceness of being able to tutor up say Comeuppance but man that's a ton of mana :)
I run Breena in my Queen deck, and tutor for her regularly, but when you get to 1 v 1 she stops doing anything.

As for Sunforger, while the 3 mana to equip is pricey (and led to my including Fighter Class), it's been totally worthwhile. It gets the right card for any scenario. Someone trying to combo off? Silence
Someone swinging for lethal? Comeuppance
Someone blowing up the board or pointing a huge burn spell at your head? Teferi's Protection
Someone make a HUGE threat? Deflecting Palm
Someone making a ton of tokens? Rakdos Charm
Need to counter a spell? Tibalt's Trickery

I don't know if there's a more versatile card in Magic, and paying or for that has absolutely been worthwhile.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
I run Breena in my Queen deck, and tutor for her regularly, but when you get to 1 v 1 she stops doing anything.

As for Sunforger, while the 3 mana to equip is pricey (and led to my including Fighter Class), it's been totally worthwhile. It gets the right card for any scenario. Someone trying to combo off? Silence
Someone swinging for lethal? Comeuppance
Someone blowing up the board or pointing a huge burn spell at your head? Teferi's Protection
Someone make a HUGE threat? Deflecting Palm
Someone making a ton of tokens? Rakdos Charm
Need to counter a spell? Tibalt's Trickery

I don't know if there's a more versatile card in Magic, and paying or for that has absolutely been worthwhile.
Well, "stops doing anything" except likely being a 17/19 flier or whatever, which is usually good enough :)

Sunforger costs:
1) the cost of tutoring for it (say, 1W as a benchmark)
2) the cost of casting it (4)
3) the cost of equipping it (and the risk of it dying there) (3)
4) the cost of activating it (RW) (and the risk of it dying there and being no longer able to protect itself, and you getting one total activation)
(and 4a cost of them blasting it or the creature when you go to equip it for (3) again, which could mean 14 mana for one use).

In my experience playing sunforger, the most common scenario for me was spending 7-10 mana to get it on a dude and having it get blown up in response to the equip, and being tempo'd out of the game.

I get that this is, in essence, a "dies to removal" argument but it's important to keep in mind all the points someone can bone you with Sunforger and leave you swinging in the breeze having spent 14 mana to tutor for and cast a single instant.

I don't think I successfully equipped a sunforger in over a year of playing it. I can't remember ever losing to one either, but it's not impossible I'm forgetting a game or two :)

The kinda icing on the crap sundae that is sunforger is that basically everyone winds up polluting their deck with crap like Rakdos Charm and Deflecting Palm that are kind of questionable cards if you can't sunforger them.

I can't argue with the fact that when it goes off it goes off, but I think most people who love sunforger are falling prey to the bias I can't remember (where people are prone to remembering the best results).

I'd generally rather just have a higher ratio of impactful spells and play card draw and cheaper tutors. I'm fine to just Demonic Tutor for Comeuppance and spend 6 mana, or deal with whichever of my hate spells I happen to draw.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

Most games that I've gotten Sunforger out I've won, and very obviously because of the equipment. Many of those games do see opponents trying to remove it, and sometimes they do, but oftentimes it comes online before they have a response and then it can protect itself.

There are a few cards I'd probably never run without Sunforger, but Rakdos Charm is definitely not one of them. Worst case it's a 2 mana instant artifact destruction. More often, it's instant graveyard or player removal. My opinion is any deck running Rakdos colors should probably be running it.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

Forger is good, yes, but it's a lot better in the absence of other forms of CA. I think Necropotence makes a lot more sense here, especially considering the current aggressive intent. It's a great way to keep almost any deck's engine topped off with gas.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
Forger is good, yes, but it's a lot better in the absence of other forms of CA. I think Necropotence makes a lot more sense here, especially considering the current aggressive intent. It's a great way to keep almost any deck's engine topped off with gas.
I might need to adjust the mana to play necro but it actually is a reasonable thing for this deck esp as I add lifelinkers. I'm not sure this deck needs a ton more ca but it's definitely something I'll keep in mind.

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Post by Haman » 2 years ago

My friend ran a flying hatebears breena, in the past hatebears have problems closing the game, breena just make them better

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Haman wrote:
2 years ago
My friend ran a flying hatebears breena, in the past hatebears have problems closing the game, breena just make them better
Coming from a background of ephara hatebears I definitely considered that. Cards like hushbringer and archon of emeria are just great in this build.

I'm trying to avoid drawing that amount of aggro with this build but I may change directions if I can't get this approach flowing.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Savior of Ollenbock seems basically to check all the boxes, including potentially reanimating breena, so that is pretty sweet. Exciting stuff in this set so far :)

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

This was the only one of my decks that won in 7 games last night, and it won dominanty - curved out with Esper Sentinel into Selfless Spirit into Breena, the Demagogue, followed by Archaeomancer's Map and Sensei's Divining Top. This lead to overwhelming card advantage as people could not pay 7 for Esper Sentinel as I mercilessly aggrod both players.

Then the dragons player had a huge board of dragons and bashed at me, and got swarmed by Inkshield. The cats deck managed to stall me for a couple turns with Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist with a Sword of Light and Shadow but I was able to voltron him out with Breena, the Demagogue.

I am pretty happy with the skeleton of this deck still but I am pretty sure I want to cut all the expensive dudes for more removal. Every time I am loaded for bear with removal this deck does great as I can use it to protect myself and continue the train of breena cards.

Selfless Spirit was a glorious addition and very happy with it, and Esper Sentinel every bit as bonkers with Breena as one would expect.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

I feel like you'd be better off with almost any other ETB draw a card creature over Wall of Omens, since you want to be attacking pretty regularly with this deck, and especially benefit from dropping an attacker before Breena. Right? There are plenty of 2 mama black creatures that draw (usually at the expense of 1 life).

Are you foretelling Stoic Farmer regularly? I feel like it would be better as a Solemn Simulacrum that you KNOW will ramp, and can get you a Swamp, too, if you need.

Twilight Shepherd looks pretty underwhelming to me even in a deck with plenty of sac outlets. Here, it doesn't look very good to me at all. I guess the value is in wiping the board with this out to get your stuff back? I feel like a dedicated mass reanimate spell might work better in the slot.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
I feel like you'd be better off with almost any other ETB draw a card creature over Wall of Omens, since you want to be attacking pretty regularly with this deck, and especially benefit from dropping an attacker before Breena. Right? There are plenty of 2 mama black creatures that draw (usually at the expense of 1 life).

Are you foretelling Stoic Farmer regularly? I feel like it would be better as a Solemn Simulacrum that you KNOW will ramp, and can get you a Swamp, too, if you need.

Twilight Shepherd looks pretty underwhelming to me even in a deck with plenty of sac outlets. Here, it doesn't look very good to me at all. I guess the value is in wiping the board with this out to get your stuff back? I feel like a dedicated mass reanimate spell might work better in the slot.
I can't think of any 2 mana draw spells really that draw right now and also dissuade attacks, maybe Mindblade Render would be OK? You're probably right, might even be better better as Night's Whisper.

I do foretell Stoic Farmer a lot - the thing I like bout it is that it gives you a turn 2 play and fixes a 2 land hand, which solemn/cartographer don't. The flexibility is major.

Twilight Shepherd is a soft lock - if it sticks breena can reset its persist immediately. It's been pretty good. It also a big bootied flier. But it's probably cuttable just because of the price tag.

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Post by Wallycaine » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
I feel like you'd be better off with almost any other ETB draw a card creature over Wall of Omens, since you want to be attacking pretty regularly with this deck, and especially benefit from dropping an attacker before Breena. Right? There are plenty of 2 mama black creatures that draw (usually at the expense of 1 life).

Are you foretelling Stoic Farmer regularly? I feel like it would be better as a Solemn Simulacrum that you KNOW will ramp, and can get you a Swamp, too, if you need.

Twilight Shepherd looks pretty underwhelming to me even in a deck with plenty of sac outlets. Here, it doesn't look very good to me at all. I guess the value is in wiping the board with this out to get your stuff back? I feel like a dedicated mass reanimate spell might work better in the slot.
I can't think of any 2 mana draw spells really that draw right now and also dissuade attacks, maybe Mindblade Render would be OK? You're probably right, might even be better better as Night's Whisper.

I do foretell Stoic Farmer a lot - the thing I like bout it is that it gives you a turn 2 play and fixes a 2 land hand, which solemn/cartographer don't. The flexibility is major.

Twilight Shepherd is a soft lock - if it sticks breena can reset its persist immediately. It's been pretty good. It also a big bootied flier. But it's probably cuttable just because of the price tag.
I believe yet is more referring to cards like Dusk Legion Zealot that could drop turn two and swing turn 3 for Breena. While it wouldn't (initially) dissaude attacks, it can start your growth train going even faster.

Edit: Clattering Augur is the other main one that can pull off the same trick. Even worse at dissuading attacks, but comes with its own (slow) recursion

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
2 years ago
I believe yet is more referring to cards like Dusk Legion Zealot that could drop turn two and swing turn 3 for Breena. While it wouldn't (initially) dissaude attacks, it can start your growth train going even faster.
Not a card that was in my head canon, might be worth a go.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
2 years ago
pokken wrote:
2 years ago
yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
I feel like you'd be better off with almost any other ETB draw a card creature over Wall of Omens, since you want to be attacking pretty regularly with this deck, and especially benefit from dropping an attacker before Breena. Right? There are plenty of 2 mama black creatures that draw (usually at the expense of 1 life).

Are you foretelling Stoic Farmer regularly? I feel like it would be better as a Solemn Simulacrum that you KNOW will ramp, and can get you a Swamp, too, if you need.

Twilight Shepherd looks pretty underwhelming to me even in a deck with plenty of sac outlets. Here, it doesn't look very good to me at all. I guess the value is in wiping the board with this out to get your stuff back? I feel like a dedicated mass reanimate spell might work better in the slot.
I can't think of any 2 mana draw spells really that draw right now and also dissuade attacks, maybe Mindblade Render would be OK? You're probably right, might even be better better as Night's Whisper.

I do foretell Stoic Farmer a lot - the thing I like bout it is that it gives you a turn 2 play and fixes a 2 land hand, which solemn/cartographer don't. The flexibility is major.

Twilight Shepherd is a soft lock - if it sticks breena can reset its persist immediately. It's been pretty good. It also a big bootied flier. But it's probably cuttable just because of the price tag.
I believe yet is more referring to cards like Dusk Legion Zealot that could drop turn two and swing turn 3 for Breena. While it wouldn't (initially) dissaude attacks, it can start your growth train going even faster.

Edit: Clattering Augur is the other main one that can pull off the same trick. Even worse at dissuading attacks, but comes with its own (slow) recursion
Yeah, I was referring to DLZ or the Augur. Same 2 mana, same card draw, but can attack.

That's what I thought Stoic might be doing, but wasn't sure it was doing it enough to be worth including for that purpose. Sounds like it does.

Shepherd...being able to keep it around is nice, but I still don't see it being enough value. Maybe I'm just missing it. Not being able to kill it on command when needed seems like it weakens the inclusion a lot. Being a beefy flyer is nice, but there are others that fit the bill. I feel like Cauldron of Souls might even be better here, using the logic behind the angel, in that you can reset the persist state.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
Shepherd...being able to keep it around is nice, but I still don't see it being enough value. Maybe I'm just missing it. Not being able to kill it on command when needed seems like it weakens the inclusion a lot. Being a beefy flyer is nice, but there are others that fit the bill. I feel like Cauldron of Souls might even be better here, using the logic behind the angel, in that you can reset the persist state.
I have a few sweepers and shepherd+sweeper is a combo of sorts? I'll definitely keep an eye on it, but so far it's been pretty powerful. It's kinda anti-sweeper tech as well. Things that keep Breena around over and over again are pretty great.

Definitely on the watchlist though :) Honestly I could see arguments for shaving the curve down extremely; one of my paths forward is cutting everything >4 mana and adding removal spells in droves. Path to Exile and friends have been amazing.


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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
2 years ago
It keeps her cheap but everything returns to hand except the angel.
Yeah, for the most part just recasting Breena is what I care about. When she gets to be 7 mana she's real bad.

But a ton of my stuff is very cheap as well creature-wise, so I can usually deploy what's important - and opponents have to start over.

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Post by Chromaticus » 2 years ago

Are Boots and Greaves on the table for you?

Seems like you want Breena, the Demagogue to stick pretty bad.

Is the idea to use recursion like Brought Back etc instead?

Just looking at the list, some of the curve toppers seem kinda lame - The Haunt of Hightower — gotta be better options!

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Chromaticus wrote:
2 years ago
Are Boots and Greaves on the table for you?

Seems like you want Breena, the Demagogue to stick pretty bad.

Is the idea to use recursion like Brought Back etc instead?

Just looking at the list, some of the curve toppers seem kinda lame - The Haunt of Hightower — gotta be better options!
yeah the idea is mostly to recur breena or use catchup ramp to make recasting her an option. Lightning Greaves is actually reasonable in this deck, as the haste is super relevant.

Brought Back doubles as both a ramp spell and a breena protection spell though which is kinda cool (same with Cosmic Intervention and Sevinne's Reclamation).

The Haunt of Hightower might be on the chopping block but it just gets so huge so fast with all the stuff people do. The idea behind those guys (haunt, Sunscorch Regent) is to get super tall and just one-shot/two-shot people vs. having to commit a lot to the board. Haunt also lets you race pretty hard since it's got lifelink. I'm not sure it's good, just something I'm trying :)

note to self:
I need to remember to put in Hangarback Walker - just seems amazing with Breena. Make a bajillionty thopters (and we can loop it cheaply)

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