Grenzo Havoc Raiser Mono-Red Midrange Combat

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So, I don't have a ton of commentary on this deck and I haven't played it yet, it's just basically a draft. It's basically just mono red Jund with almost exclusively individually powerful cards and a bunch of mana doublers to enable going off with Grenzo's ability late game (or my few huge bombs like Mob Rule and Insurrection).

https://deckbox.org/sets/3031147

We've got efficient removal, a variety of efficient creatures, some swords, and a subtheme of stuff triggering on combat damage. I purposefully left out the various extra combat step stuff because it's a bit comboish and not as jundy.

The primary wincon should be just combat beats, but we have a Redderhoof in the form of Surge to Victory and Insurrection.

We don't really have sweepers because our goal is to protect ourselves from combat damage by getting through with Grenzo triggers long enough to find a bomb effect and kill them. We have a decent variety of removal and ways to get through (Key to the City and swords of X&Y, etc.).

I kinda want to get ahold of a copy of Disrupt Decorum just don't have one for some reason.

Happy to hear any other thoughts folks have. :)

I am trying to keep the manabase very resistant to Ruination and Blood Moon so not running a lot of things that aren't there to find more mountains (e.g. Thawing Glaciers).

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weltkrieg
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Post by weltkrieg » 2 years ago

It looks like an interesting deck, but I do feel you really want to add in a Myriad Landscape to the lands package. It's low opportunity cost in my opinion and can really add that mid to late game mountain power that a deck like this depends upon. I never leave home without in a deck packing valakut or is mono colored.

Faithless looting seems like a bad idea here. You're not a reanimator list and at best, it's card parity. Unlike Cathartic Reunion and friends, if you copy it, it's still card parity at best. At least the others will turn into card advantage in that case. Likewise, I worry that you don't have enough evasion. Maybe Bedlam would be a suitable replacement? Your commander should be able to ensure that you don't get hit (along with other cards you play).

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

weltkrieg wrote:
2 years ago
It looks like an interesting deck, but I do feel you really want to add in a Myriad Landscape to the lands package. It's low opportunity cost in my opinion and can really add that mid to late game mountain power that a deck like this depends upon. I never leave home without in a deck packing valakut or is mono colored.

Faithless looting seems like a bad idea here. You're not a reanimator list and at best, it's card parity. Unlike Cathartic Reunion and friends, if you copy it, it's still card parity at best. At least the others will turn into card advantage in that case. Likewise, I worry that you don't have enough evasion. Maybe Bedlam would be a suitable replacement? Your commander should be able to ensure that you don't get hit (along with other cards you play).
The issue I have with landscape is sequencing wise it matches up really badly with Grenzo - you want to play it tapped on turn 1, then...not cast grenzo on 2...then activate on 3, and so an "optimal" sequence for landscape is Grenzo hits on turn 4 and you do nothing on turn 1-3. Drawing it later is usually worse than a mountain. It can be good in some circumstances but it has a lot of sequencing flaws. It's possible it's better than Thawing Glaciers which is very slow as well (*though I mostly play that because of my soft spot for it).

Looting -- yeah, it might not be right. I have found I really like that card in decks where the average power per card is very high though. I do have a few graveyard sheanigans (Daretti, Scrap Savant, Conspiracy Theorist and Goblin Engineer) but it's not a major theme. The overall idea there is that Looting basically acts like a medium quality cantrip and a redraw later in the game.

I am a bit iffy on the mass evasion that doesn't do anything. That's why there's stuff like Godo, Bandit Warlord, Goblin Engineer and Key to the City / Sword of Fire and Ice. My thought is that I should be willing to spend my removal jamming through blockers if I have to and otherwise use equipment and flying creatures, etc.

There're a lot of incidental things that help burn out blockers like Inferno Titan, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Grim Lavamancer, Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice, etc.

I will definitely keep my eyes peeled for whether I need any of that kinda stuff though. Red's inability to tutor for enchantments makes me really iffy on them. It's why I am not running well, any.

weltkrieg
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Post by weltkrieg » 2 years ago

I am a little bit curious about your meta if cards like grim lavamancer etc. get through blockers consistently. My meta usually has a lot of bigger creatures (or the combo decks simply don't care) and thus these kinds of cards with small damage output rarely matter (inferno titan is a separate matter). I suggested bedlam as an option because it never costs you mana so you can use the mana to steal your opponents cards on top of their deck. If you prefer a more offensively minded version, how about Goblin War Drums ?

If you're willing to run terrain generator, then maybe Walking Atlas also has a home?

Given the theme of your deck, maybe you want one more grenzo back up? I could see Etali, Primal Storm having a home in the 99. It certainly fits your criteria for being disruptive and individually powerful as a creature similar to how jund plays. Separately, some additional creatures that are both disruptive and nasty beaters would fit. How about Obsidian Charmaw ? It carries equipment well and takes out pesky non basics (fits the ruination/blood moon theme).

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I wouldn't say consistently but often enough. There are always people who don't want to trade creatures of x/4 to my 2/2 either. Shocks and jitte activations play hell with combat math.

I think if I wanted more effects to get through blockers it'd be best to be something that either attacks like drakuseth or does dual duty as a win con like a big pump effect like dragon throne of tarkir.

I do like that bedlam messes up blocks on other peoples goaded creatures. I do have it in my pile. I just have a hard time imagining how often it is going to impact games if there aren't really critical mass of the effects and I can't tutor for it.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I'm going to have to take this deck back to the drawing board I think, a lot of things just didn't work and the equipment was very lackluster overall. I think I probably need to either play Goblins or figure something else out if I'm going to make this work.

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