Ikra and Tymna, Woke Women

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Tymna and Ikra are my woke women because the previous general was Teneb. Look at his face: Teneb, the Harvester; he looks so sleepy. I was trying to think of an Abzan General that I liked, which I narrowed down to Teneb. I've had a goal of having every combination of Black at my disposal, as it is my favourite colour, and with an Abzan General I complete my goal. At that point, I was trying to think of something unique. I realized he was a Sabotuer - a Creature with a triggered ability if they hit a player. Normally, this sort of ability is in Blue and is the boring 'draw a card'. I decided to try and make an Abzan Saboteurs deck, led by this sleepy Dragon. After playing a few times, I realized that having these women are the helm makes the deck a lot better; the swap is putting the sleepy dragon into the 99 and placing these awake women on the throne. They so woke they decided to drop the Saboteur theme.
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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

I think I poked you about this previously on MTGSalvation but what do you think of increasing your 1-2 mana creature count? There are a good number of decent creatures that if you can get them in before Tymna can result in drawing multiple additional cards.

Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim - She can trade up on bigger creatures due to deathtouch and given the lifegain from the commanders she can be a great draw later allowing her to enable some great spot removal.

Karlov of the Ghost Council - Both of your commanders have lifegain components to them. You can make him very big very fast and he can serve as removal as well as a beater and curving him into Tymna can result in some good draw.

Elvish Visionary / Dusk Legion Zealot - they cantrip later but early on you can curve Tymna and use them as like Sign in Blood effects that can theoretically draw you more than 2 cards.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

The 2 CMC spot on curve is in general very shallow in this deck. There's tons of great stuff to be doing on turn 2.
Are all a few other things I would consider as well :)

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
4 years ago
I think I poked you about this previously on MTGSalvation but what do you think of increasing your 1-2 mana creature count? There are a good number of decent creatures that if you can get them in before Tymna can result in drawing multiple additional cards.

Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim - She can trade up on bigger creatures due to deathtouch and given the lifegain from the commanders she can be a great draw later allowing her to enable some great spot removal.

Karlov of the Ghost Council - Both of your commanders have lifegain components to them. You can make him very big very fast and he can serve as removal as well as a beater and curving him into Tymna can result in some good draw.

Elvish Visionary / Dusk Legion Zealot - they cantrip later but early on you can curve Tymna and use them as like Sign in Blood effects that can theoretically draw you more than 2 cards.
I have been disappointed with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in this deck lately, so that's a slot for a two drop. I used to have Karlov of the Ghost Council but cut him because the deck doesn't gain enough spread out life; it tends to be a few large amounts. I don't think I have enough bodies or 'Armies in a Can' to deploy Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim.

Elvish Visionary and/or Dusk Legion Zealot are probably more of what I'm looking for to smooth the deck's draws.
pokken wrote:
4 years ago
The 2 CMC spot on curve is in general very shallow in this deck. There's tons of great stuff to be doing on turn 2.
Are all a few other things I would consider as well :)
I've cut Stoneforge because I don't have enough Equipment to really justify her; though adding Umezawa's Jitte would help but then I'm going to have to make more room. Adding a two drop is probably correct, I'm just not so certain which 2 drop that should be.

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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Man, that is a tough call. I think Jitte is the best card but I suspect that Remorseful Cleric is what you'd get the most mileage out of; evasive creatures are really damned good with Tymna.

Qasali Pridemage is another great 2-drop in those colors.

The best thing I see that's missing in your deck is green sun's zenith + dryad arbor. Probably better than a vanilla 2. Saffi, Eriksdotter is very strong in this deck as well (protecting Tymna and also getting in).

I honestly don't know. I think you could use a slight recurve across the board but it's probably fine to just start small :)

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

I didn't just want to make one cut for a two drop, it didn't feel right and I eventually came to the conclusion of the second card:
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While I really like that Phage says 'you lose', she's really expensive and requires a lot of hoops to jump through. Vizkopa requires far less and can easily kill the table with multiple activations of the second ability. Selfless Spirit should help protect my board, get in with flying and I had previously ear marked Kalitas as a cut. Let's see how this shapes the deck.
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Spoils of Asmadi's demise:
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The Gitrog makes me greedy and stupid, so it gets the axe. I don't want to sacrifice Plains for Emeria, the Sky Ruin, I don't want to sacrifice Swamps to cast my haymakers and I'd like to keep Forests for all of my ramp spells that power everything else. This puts me in a bind when I sacrifice lands, I don't have enough lands to keep powering the Gitrog. I'm quite willing to lose the Deathtouch, combat body and draw triggers for Oracle who comes down a turn earlier. Oracle also offers pseudo-draw of using lands off-of-the-top instead of what's in my hand. While both cards draw and ramp, I consider this a ramp-swap.

Nissa is a pure draw piece but requires some hoops to jump through. Granted, those hoops aren't too terrible and the reward is incredible but I'm looking less for hoops and just simple draw. Twilight Prophet does have some hoops but considering Commander almost always involves getting the City's Gift, it's almost irrelevant. The life gain is nice for Archangel of Thune and Vizkopa Guildmage, the life loss is a clock on the table. Especially since this deck does have numerous high CMC cards and Volrath's Stronghold gives me the option to manipulate that.

In addition to all of the above, there's always curve slimming.
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Throne update:
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Bane is a big ETB, so it felt right to axe him for Hushbringer to hose decks reliant on ETBs which has only increased with the amount of trigger doublers Wizards has printed as of late. My other ETB Creatures shouldn't hurt as bad if they're turned off, as Eternal Witness would probably be played after a board wipe to perhaps recur that wipe. Flip Nissa is really only important when she flips out. I axed the Bane because I already have Hour of Revelation and Play of the Game to scour the field. I also like that Hush comes down early with evasion to assist in starting a Tymna the Weaver train. Lifelink will help once she gets big from various pump effects or just creating parity off Tymna's trigger.
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

I've decided to lift a personal embargo:
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With the addition of Coffers in this update, I felt like I needed to include a big Black sorcery. I did contemplate Torment of Hailfire but I already have Exsanguinate. Didn't want to be too basic. So, I decided to add in Command the Dreadhorde because it looks fun, this deck gains a lot of life to pay for Command's cost and things sound better in three. Zetalpa is ridiculous, that's for sure, but I'm not sure if he's worth the 8 CMC level. With Coffers, I can pump out big black spells and Zetalpa looked lacklustre in comparison.

Cabal Coffers was more than a crutch, it was a full on wheelchair. A friend made fun of me for saying that Cabal Coffers is my favourite Magic card. I don't really know what else to say; it lets me cast all of the other broken silliness. I decided to play without Coffers for a while as part as rehabilitation from my crippling Coffers addiction. My friend treated this deck as always having Coffers within it, so he was very surprised I didn't have it in the decklist and I took that as an invitation to lift my embargo on Coffers. Finding a cut was difficult, as Coffers should be treated as a Ramp spell instead of a Land slot. After all, I need another land Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, to get it going, which means Coffers functions more like Kodama's Reach than a land. Looking, I decided that Wood Elves was my weakest Ramp spell, just like Temple of the False God. I muttered that last bit to myself, curious, I checked my decklist. Lo, and behold, Temple of the False God, another Land that functions more like a Ramp spell. Well, I decided to keep Wood Elves as it fetches a lot of different Forests, Black for hammer blows, White for control like powering Emeria, the Sky Ruin and Murmuring Bosk for colour fixing. Plus now Hour of Promise can fetch the most iconic duo of Coffers and Urborg.
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

I can probably afford this with all of the life gain this deck has:
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Pay life to draw cards, seems good especially since I have so many ways to Untap my Lands to continually draw.

Edit: Gaelic is stupid.
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Curve slimming:
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In comparison, Force is free and costs less if I do need to hard cast it. It also hits two permanents of the same player, if need be. I'm usually not too concerned about Creatures with this deck, it's the other permanents that cause them to be troublemakers.

Garenbrig is a much more forgiving Temple of the False God and I recently ran that in this deck, so I'm fine with this mana bump at the slight cost of a Basic Forest.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Slimming:
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Multani is powerful, but when compared to every other 6+ drop, he pales in comparison. I know his main power is just keep coming back, but I'm playing Abzan, I already have ways to make things come back. So, he hasn't been very impressive as of late. The meta has shifted hard into Graveyard recursion, so Agent of Erebos slims my curve and nukes all of those strategies. I do have a handful of Enchantments I could use to get a second Constellation trigger but I'm under no illusions that this will be frequent. My idea of getting Agent's trigger again is probably from some sort of recursion.

I've been worried that Despark's 4 CMC stipulation might be too much, so I've been paying close attention to any time I have Utter End in my hand and seeing potential targets. I think shaving off two CMC is worth the stipulation.

Cabal Coffers has just been a real awkward mess; the deck isn't designed to use and abuse Coffers. I've put a basic Plains in its place for more Emeria, the Sky Ruin shenanigans.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Improvements?:
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Elvish Reclaimer comes down on Turn 1 or 2, setting up for Tymna the Weaver's draw earlier. His pump has a lower Ceiling to the Knight's; however, I believe his ability to Sacrifice any Land over the Knight's Forest or Plains restriction is worth far more. I can easily Sac anything, Grab Ancient Tomb and just keep using him to power out all sorts of Lands. He can even set up a Turn 3 Tymna by fetching the necessary Black or White on Turn 2 when he comes down on Turn 1.

The Great Henge is insanely good, I think Beast Whisperer is the worst piece of draw in the deck and that's why he got the axe.

Axing a Swamp is a low opportunity cost way of being able to nuke Graveyards; it gives the Elvish Reclaimer another trick.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Need more hate:
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Command the Dreadhorde is great if I'm in a winning position, have life to burn and/or there's some obnoxious, juicy targets. That's too much randomness for me. In another deck, Command might be a finisher but I already have my picks. I found that the amount of hate that gets sent my way has increased when I play this deck, it's no longer under the radar. I contemplated a few different Wrath effects: Cataclysmic Gearhulk, Fumigate and others. I decided against the Gearhulk in case I flip it off of a Genesis Storm. I would like Fumigate so I have another way to gain life because then I can either stabilize my life total or use excess gains to fuel my various pay effects. In the end, I went with Coup because the excess bodies can finish someone off, it'll make them use a Wrath if they have one and all of these bodies can be used to draw cards by swinging all out for Tymna the Weaver's draw trigger. Coup is both offence and defence, I think I'll be able to use that.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

More early-mid value:
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Razaketh is great if you can pay him off, but I don't actually have too many ways to add lots of bodies for fodder. In fact, that's kind of been a problem. With Zomketra, I have a body that pumps out bodies. That's also important for Tymna's draw trigger. They having Vigilance is also nice just for blocks. With the amount of Wraths and Exiles this deck plays and faces, Oketra's cockroach trigger is gonna be nice.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Christmas came on my mana base:
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I'm a little leery dropping my basic Swamps to two but this makes it even more likely that I'll have an active Emeria, the Sky Ruin. I also think that Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will probably cover my black sources.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Theros update:
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Should I even try to justify it? Well, it is a body for Tymna to trigger and it does have a big butt for Ikra. It fixes my mana base for my Triple Colour spells; such as, Bolas' Citadel and Hour of Revelation which are both spells I don't want hiccups with. By being a Creature, it triggers off a lot of my draw engines, like The Great Henge and Lifecrafter's Bestiary. By being an Enchantment the Dryad triggers Agent of Erebos's Constellation. With all of my Lands being Plains, I have an easier time triggering Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Do I even need to go through all of these theatrics and jumping through justifications when Wizards prints another Extra Land Drop Creature? Not really, this is a lot of gravy that I makes it easy to cut Cultivate.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Fallout from adding the Dryad:
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By having the Dryad, I am more interested in making sure I draw cards. To do so, I need to be able to reliably cast Tymna and get her draw triggers. To do so, I've decided to include the Ranger who will make sure I can fetch the colour required to cast Tymna and is available to turn sideways on Turn 3 to start the draw engine going. With the cut of Cultivate, I decided to also axe Reach because of the lowered redundancy.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Need cheap interaction:
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I don't have enough Enchantments to reliably trigger Agent of Erebos so might as well just get a better body. The 4 butt is nice with Ikra and the evasion works with Tymna compared to the Agent's bear body.

Primeval Bounty was getting clunky as the meta shifted, I'm looking to flood the field with low opportunity cost and then leverage my Commanders abilities to draw me cards and gain me life. Arasta comes down earlier and she with her brood protects my face from fliers.

The two Planeswalkers were great draw engines but I started to realize that I just needed to play Creatures to take advantage of all the other draw engines already available to me, whether that is my Commanders or off of The Great Henge or Zendikar Resurgent triggers. In their stead comes cheap interaction that'll stop direct spells from making me lose; a lot of the time people give up trying to kill me conventionally and the deck didn't have a way to defend itself from unconventional ways until now.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

More tuning:
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When I cut the Tracker from my Ruric Thar, the Unbowed deck, I realized that yeah, it is kind of lacklustre. Don't get me wrong, it's a great card; I just get greedy and stupid with it so I don't utilize the Tracker to his full potential. I don't want to block because it can potentially draw me cards and I don't want to crack those Clues because I can use mana on other things. Then usually a big Wrath hits and wipes him along with his Clues; suddenly I'm without a Creature or draw engine and he didn't even block things. Captain Sisay comes from my broken up Marisi, Breaker of the Coil deck and she draws cards without having me to spend mana plus I already know I'm not going to block with her. Sisay will also be able to take advantage of Seedborn Muse untaps. This deck is chock full of Legendaries to fetch; I'm trying to figure out what to cut for Yavimaya Hollow but I'm too low on Basics and don't have other obvious cuts to make. So, it'll rattle along in my brain for the moment.

Karametra has kind of been awkward. Sure, she's great at getting my Emeria, the Sky Ruin online by fetching all of these Plains for me but I don't have that many ways to abuse the Cast trigger. In her stead comes a relatively cheap Mirari's Wake I got at my LGS. The +1/+1s will be nice for Tymna's Lifelink as I'll go life positive after getting in with two which is usually the case plus the general pumping on the team. Double mana is double mana, it's pretty bonkers.

Yes, the irony that I'm cutting a Legend while adding Sisay does not escape me.

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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Found the cut:
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My first thought to add Yavimaya Hollow was Rogue's Passage but it has been very handy at times. Mostly when I want to get in with a small Tymna to trigger off that draw or have a big Creature get in to finish a player off. With that, I realized the next extraneous Nonbasic was Vault. A lot of my effects gain me life, so the Lifelink isn't that big of a deal and while I do like the Deathtouch, I find I probably want to Wrath instead of hoping to force trades in Combat. Hollow comes in to protect my assets and can be tutored up by Sisay.

I am currently toying with the idea of Urza's Ruinous Blast as a target for Sisay to search up.

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Found an upgrade:
Changes 03/14/20
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Dawn Charm has so many more applications than Gilded Light, so I make that exchange.

Winding Canyons in my Bears in Cars is far more effective than what this deck can do with that.

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

A swap:
Changes 04/04/20
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I'm thinking of changing the direction of this Ikra and Tymna brew. I'm not too sure where because I was inspired after seeing how much value a Voice of Many has consistently generated in my Jarad deck. So, the first step is to flatten my curve like the Coronavirus. Ayli comes in as a good attacker, blocker and utility piece for ways to pay off all of my token generation. Dragonlord is good but he's going into a meme deck I'm trying out - the idea is to use tons of Creatures that demand spot removal but the Commander is Shalai, Voice of Plenty. I'm not losing my Legend saturation for Captain Sisay which is nice and Ayli might be a worthwhile target to fetch. I'm also hoping that with the Commander decks being Wedges that there's more worthwhile Abzan goodies - so far I'm liking the Green and White free spells if you control a Commander.

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 4 years ago

Engineering against my greed:
Changes 04/05/20
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I see a powerful play and I can't help myself; I go for it. This means I frequently become the Archenemy and then die. To stop this, I'm taking out some haymakers that I tend to play for value instead of winning the game.

I would casually toss out Archfiend and Ascendant when I didn't have the game in the bag. So, I'm putting in more resilient, value picks. Voice of Many has impressed me in my Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck and I think this deck has enough two and three drops to turn Voice into a Harmonize. The Beanstalk is Ramp in the beginning and then a big boy to play with later; I can even save him until after a Wrath and he'll be quite big.

I've also died too often to some big mean mother. I'm dropping utility and opting for efficiency. Despark and Anguished go away for Swords and Path.

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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 4 years ago

How do you most often find yourself winning games? My biggest frustration about Abzan is that outside of boring combos, big X spells, and dumb bombs, winning games can be difficult. Do you just grind people out and slowly beat them to death with your value critters?

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