Bruna, the Fading Light - Mono-W Moat Control

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
There's pieces to keep the wheels moving, but nothing to really end the game in devastating fashion. So I wondered if it would be worth adding some higher impact pieces to get across the finish line more quickly. What are your guys' thoughts about:
I think if you go with combat triggers from swords or Jitte and are playing tutors, you should commit to double strikers. You may as well play all three legs of the barstool.

The other thing I'd want to do is shore up weaknesses. We already do that with ramp and card draw, but, we could consider keywords we miss (and somewhat need), like Trample. Shadowspear? Maybe Loxodon Warhammer or something weird like Haunted Cloak?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Well, I managed to get a game in today, at least most of it.

Had a brutal start with a T1 Serra Ascendant and Sword of the Animist shortly afterwards, and I really just managed to dominate the game. I think I was a little overpowered to be honest. Nonetheless, the deck ran well, and I managed to run into Stoneforge Mystic, which played very nicely.

It did get me thinking, I actually don't have a ton of equipment to hit with her of Steelshaper's Gift. There's pieces to keep the wheels moving, but nothing to really end the game in devastating fashion. So I wondered if it would be worth adding some higher impact pieces to get across the finish line more quickly. What are your guys' thoughts about:
Umezawa's Jitte
Blackblade Reforged
Grafted Exoskeleton (probably a bit mean to be fair)

Other pieces to suggest? I think mostly the swords of x and y are out of my range, I have War and Peace somewhere about, but I think the idea of making combat hits as hard as possible would be something I'd like to have in the way of options, and considering I've got three equipment tutors in the deck now and ways to get them back from the yard it's worth exploring perhaps. I do have a Lightning Greaves to add now too.
I also kind of hate those Serra Ascendant starts. She is really a reasonable thing to draw at most parts of a game and that is mostly why I run her but those turn one times can feel kinda brutal.

I run a similar equipment strategy as what you currently run. I do have Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice in my list and I don't run Swiftfoot Boots. I would say that Jitte and SoF&I do tend to be my later game tutor targets but neither one of them is like.... huge to get late or anything. Jitte in my opinion actually has a bit of a delayed response before it matters even though it gets counters as soon as you start doing damage its value is a lot more based on staying in play and getting to play board control so if it does get nuked quickly it can be sort of a low impact one but really I could say that about most equipment I just think people are far more aware of Jitte than they are a lot of other equipment.

Personally, I REALLY don't care much for Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves. I think their protection is incredibly poor on average and their overall impact on games is in my opinion too low. I also don't know why you are running Swiftfoot over Lightning from the standpoint that its very unlikely you need to target your own creatures with something else. You run four equipment and the only limitation of Lightning Greaves is that you need a second target to move the boots to if you are putting another equipment on it. In a nutshell, I really only like these equipment for haste and if you care about haste. I do run Winding Canyons and Hall of the Bandit Lord so I sort of pushed it to my lands to free up a slot as I don't put a lot of value in it personally.

Grafted Exoskeleton - I would avoid it for one simple reason..... its all or nothing. Eseentially with anything other than Avacyn, Angel of Hope this is going to be a two attacks required kill and it has zero value if you don't end someone with it. Blackblade Reforged seems far better to me given this as even if it dies after the first hit you still put them on the road to dying. It also opens up options of voltron even if the equipment dies it put someone a lot closer to death. Grafted Exoskeleton either gets there or accomplishes nothing. Worse than that though, it actually buys them life if it gets answered. Do commanders do commander damage with infect??? I don't even know lol.

If you do add another equipment I would vote for either Umezawa's Jitte or Blackblade Reforged. Jitte is amazing board control for any amount of time you can sit behind it but it is also a removal magnet. Blackblade would be a good punch. I just don't know how much I want to just go at someone but with the equipment tutors it would make for something worth trying potentially. Its cheap to boot so it wouldn't cost much to test.
Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
There's pieces to keep the wheels moving, but nothing to really end the game in devastating fashion. So I wondered if it would be worth adding some higher impact pieces to get across the finish line more quickly. What are your guys' thoughts about:
I think if you go with combat triggers from swords or Jitte and are playing tutors, you should commit to double strikers. You may as well play all three legs of the barstool.

The other thing I'd want to do is shore up weaknesses. We already do that with ramp and card draw, but, we could consider keywords we miss (and somewhat need), like Trample. Shadowspear? Maybe Loxodon Warhammer or something weird like Haunted Cloak?
Trample is a bit odd with flying in that there aren't a ton of situations people have tons of chaff flying blockers. The point of trample is often to get past tokens and ETB value bodies. Its just not that common that those things fly (though they can).

I think there is some value in having a lifelink enabler in the equipment though. I am not so sure on Loxy just given its big cost to what it does but Shadowspear could be a thing. I think it would depend a bit on the meta though as to if I felt the need to tutor for lifegain. Some of the angels I was a bit more behind because they were rez targets for Bruna and represented kind of ok threats on their own. I am not as sure on equipment for lifegain. I am actually a bit surprised there isn't a good life gain equipment that is specifically white.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
I think if you go with combat triggers from swords or Jitte and are playing tutors, you should commit to double strikers. You may as well play all three legs of the barstool.
I don't necessarily disagree, there's just not a lot of options. In equipment there's Grappling Hook and Fireshrieker which aren't stunning. Other than that, here's the creatures that have it in white (that are relevant to us):
Angel of Destiny
Avenging Huntbonder
Fencing Ace
Heavenly Blademaster
Mirran Crusader
Silverblade Paladin
Student of Warfare
I don't know that any of these really pack enough of a punch to justify inclusion to be honest. Huntbonder seems cool if it survives, so there's that, but it's also 3ww.
Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
The other thing I'd want to do is shore up weaknesses. We already do that with ramp and card draw, but, we could consider keywords we miss (and somewhat need), like Trample. Shadowspear? Maybe Loxodon Warhammer or something weird like Haunted Cloak?
Shadowspear I have, so I can totally test that. Loxie is fine, but it's a little expensive to cast and equip so I'm hesitant. Haunted Cloak I sort of like, I looked at Chitinous Cloak too.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I also kind of hate those Serra Ascendant starts. She is really a reasonable thing to draw at most parts of a game and that is mostly why I run her but those turn one times can feel kinda brutal.
Yeah it was nasty, but it was clearly the optimal play, so to not do it would've been disingenuous, and one of the decks was Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, and I like to keep that guy in check.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I run a similar equipment strategy as what you currently run. I do have Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice in my list and I don't run Swiftfoot Boots. I would say that Jitte and SoF&I do tend to be my later game tutor targets but neither one of them is like.... huge to get late or anything. Jitte in my opinion actually has a bit of a delayed response before it matters even though it gets counters as soon as you start doing damage its value is a lot more based on staying in play and getting to play board control so if it does get nuked quickly it can be sort of a low impact one but really I could say that about most equipment I just think people are far more aware of Jitte than they are a lot of other equipment.
Ultimately the main thing stopping me trying out Jitte is it's price. It's a great card, just not one I want to spend a ton on. And I can totally see how you could get pipped at the post with it. You're really only getting value from it after its first combat phase.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Personally, I REALLY don't care much for Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves. I think their protection is incredibly poor on average and their overall impact on games is in my opinion too low. I also don't know why you are running Swiftfoot over Lightning from the standpoint that its very unlikely you need to target your own creatures with something else. You run four equipment and the only limitation of Lightning Greaves is that you need a second target to move the boots to if you are putting another equipment on it. In a nutshell, I really only like these equipment for haste and if you care about haste. I do run Winding Canyons and Hall of the Bandit Lord so I sort of pushed it to my lands to free up a slot as I don't put a lot of value in it personally.
Yeah, I get it. I don't like having them in the list for this either, but I have neither a spare Winding Canyons nor a Hall of the Bandit Lord (honestly, I'd really like to see some reprints of the Kamigawa utility lands), but I can totally see how this is preferable to the equipment. It's something I can aim for in the future I guess.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
If you do add another equipment I would vote for either Umezawa's Jitte or Blackblade Reforged. Jitte is amazing board control for any amount of time you can sit behind it but it is also a removal magnet. Blackblade would be a good punch. I just don't know how much I want to just go at someone but with the equipment tutors it would make for something worth trying potentially. Its cheap to boot so it wouldn't cost much to test.
I think Blackblade makes sense. The reason I didn't get a full game in yesterday was it just dragged on and on, and I didn't have the time to close it out. I absolutely would've won had I stuck around, but....fatherhood, right? So anything I can do to make the game a little more efficient I'm down with, and that just means swinging less, but with higher impact. To that end, even some of the Swords of X and Y wouldn't really cut it. F&I, sure, but it's pretty costly, so I'll pass. War and Peace...maybe? It's probably a bit variable, but it could be fine.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I think there is some value in having a lifelink enabler in the equipment though. I am not so sure on Loxy just given its big cost to what it does but Shadowspear could be a thing. I think it would depend a bit on the meta though as to if I felt the need to tutor for lifegain. Some of the angels I was a bit more behind because they were rez targets for Bruna and represented kind of ok threats on their own. I am not as sure on equipment for lifegain. I am actually a bit surprised there isn't a good life gain equipment that is specifically white.
To date I've been running Shadowspear in my Glissa deck, and it's been fine, if a little unspectacular. I think it could do nice things here, although the lifegain is not something I really make amazing use of, so....I don't know if it's worth it. The Arcane Lighthouse abillity is very infrequently useful in any way, so.....I dunno.

edit - Hammer of Nazahn could be nice too. Helps cut down on equip costs and gives some protection. Searchable with Thalia's Lancers as well. It takes Bruna to a 3 hit for 21 damage,
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Ok, well I am going to ignore all of the extremely polarizing discussion on pricing and availability of the walking dead product and bring up Rick, Steadfast Leader from the standpoint of this deck. I somewhat recently discussed the possibility of maybe doing a human tribal focus with bruna and how Angel of Glory's Rise would be very powerful in it. I think that Rick, Steadfast Leader sort of follows this trend in that I don't think you would run him without being human focused and yet he gives us yet another human payoff.

Without the 4+ humans he reminds me of a tribal version of Angelic Skirmisher. I don't think I could justify him in just any Bruna build but I think if you are willing to do a humans tribal concept Rick does look very viable. I guess the big question is are there enough human tribal payoffs yet. I still think its likely an answer of no for now but I think Rick is a big step towards the answer to that being yes. I think that a humans version of bruna would probably require some level of go wide strategy but really I would be excited to play both Odric, Lunarch Marshal and Odric, Master Tactician as human based go wide anthems.

So, ignoring availability, cost, and scummy level of how this product is being distributed, I am intrigued by Rick, Steadfast Leader. I have been eyeing this idea of potentially a human tribal Bruna concept for a while now. I might even end up having two Bruna decks at the same time just so I can kick it around being how different it probably would play. I think I am going to the drawing board at least to mock something up and see what it looks like. I unfortunately have broken down and put in my order for these cards despite my displeasure with wizards given the cost and distribution means.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
So, ignoring availability, cost, and scummy level of how this product is being distributed,


I am intrigued by Rick, Steadfast Leader.
I've been finding it hard to separate those things, for sure. I'll do my best for this thread, but, there might be a tinge of anger here and there.
I have been eyeing this idea of potentially a human tribal Bruna concept for a while now. I might even end up having two Bruna decks at the same time just so I can kick it around being how different it probably would play. I think I am going to the drawing board at least to mock something up and see what it looks like. I unfortunately have broken down and put in my order for these cards despite my displeasure with wizards given the cost and distribution means.
Rick is among the first Human-specific buff to power and toughness (other than General Kudro of Drannith and Sanctuary Lockdown, both of which are very recent printings) and the largest buff available (are there many other +2/+2 tribal buffs?). Oh, and two keywords? Sure. Rick, IMO, is actually very powerful and could make waves in any format where humans are a thing.

There is definitely a universe where humans are the dominant tribe in Bruna. Rick might be one of the first humans that's actually worth bringing back with Bruna's 7-mana price tag. I think, however, when you start to think about it, this would just be a Rick deck. Rick would be the general, because it's better to pay 4/6/8 for Rick (and have the command zone escape hatch against exile/tuck) than it is to find and play Rick for 4, and then play Bruna for 7/9/11. Angel of Glory's Rise and other rez effects might come into it to defray command zone costs (because people will target Rick with removal simply because he's Walking Dead SLD stuff). I think Angel of Glory's Rise is just a good card for human tribal.

Bruna could be maindecked, but, I think if you're just going to build monowhite humans, you bite the bullet and it's fronted by Rick. Playing Bruna as a general... it doesn't make much sense (to me) when you start to think about the things you're going to rez in a human-dominant deck (they're all low curve) and what you want in terms of reliability in the command zone.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
So, ignoring availability, cost, and scummy level of how this product is being distributed,


I am intrigued by Rick, Steadfast Leader.
I've been finding it hard to separate those things, for sure. I'll do my best for this thread, but, there might be a tinge of anger here and there.
I have been eyeing this idea of potentially a human tribal Bruna concept for a while now. I might even end up having two Bruna decks at the same time just so I can kick it around being how different it probably would play. I think I am going to the drawing board at least to mock something up and see what it looks like. I unfortunately have broken down and put in my order for these cards despite my displeasure with wizards given the cost and distribution means.
Rick is among the first Human-specific buff to power and toughness (other than General Kudro of Drannith and Sanctuary Lockdown, both of which are very recent printings) and the largest buff available (are there many other +2/+2 tribal buffs?). Oh, and two keywords? Sure. Rick, IMO, is actually very powerful and could make waves in any format where humans are a thing.

There is definitely a universe where humans are the dominant tribe in Bruna. Rick might be one of the first humans that's actually worth bringing back with Bruna's 7-mana price tag. I think, however, when you start to think about it, this would just be a Rick deck. Rick would be the general, because it's better to pay 4/6/8 for Rick (and have the command zone escape hatch against exile/tuck) than it is to find and play Rick for 4, and then play Bruna for 7/9/11. Bruna could be maindecked, but, I think if you're just going to build monowhite humans, you bite the bullet and it's fronted by Rick. Playing Bruna as a general... it doesn't make much sense (to me) when you start to think about the things you're going to rez in a human-dominant deck (they're all low curve) and what you want in terms of reliability in the command zone.
You probably are correct at least for now in that the focus would be more on having access to Rick. This is probably more of an issue of threat density when it comes to human tribal right now. Assuming there were more compelling human tribal cards it might be less about a few sparsely spaced cards. I will take a look at it both from a perspective of Bruna and from Rick as the commander. I think there are a lot of compelling humans, they just aren't always focused on human tribal.

The big question for Bruna at the helm is if there is a compelling reason to be human tribal. With Rick at the helm you get the consistency of having that tribal buff in a proactive means. Bruna is more of a rebuild mechanic than a proactive gameplan tool. I will have to give it some thought as well as just see what a list might look like.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
The big question for Bruna at the helm is if there is a compelling reason to be human tribal. With Rick at the helm you get the consistency of having that tribal buff in a proactive means. Bruna is more of a rebuild mechanic than a proactive gameplan tool. I will have to give it some thought as well as just see what a list might look like.
I think this is a good distinction.

At the end of the day, when you rebuild with Bruna (as a commander) in a human-heavy deck, I think you're rezzing Angel of Glory's Rise or you aren't really going to bother. You'll have better returns if you played something like Marshal's Anthem, because the rez chains just won't involve humans all that much. It'd kind of be sad to suffer a wipe, and then play Bruna to rez... Rick. Or Ranger of Eos/Ranger-Captain of Eos and tutor some dudes. If you're paying 7 mana for a rez, the thing needs to be worth it alone, or it needs to find something else that will be worth it alone, like Karmic Guide or Sun Titan.

Speaking of 7 mana rez spells... has anyone played Profound Journey at all?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
I think this is a good distinction.

At the end of the day, when you rebuild with Bruna (as a commander) in a human-heavy deck, I think you're rezzing Angel of Glory's Rise or you aren't really going to bother. You'll have better returns if you played something like Marshal's Anthem, because the rez chains just won't involve humans all that much. It'd kind of be sad to suffer a wipe, and then play Bruna to rez... Rick. Or Ranger of Eos/Ranger-Captain of Eos and tutor some dudes. If you're paying 7 mana for a rez, the thing needs to be worth it alone, or it needs to find something else that will be worth it alone, like Karmic Guide or Sun Titan.

Speaking of 7 mana rez spells... has anyone played Profound Journey at all?
Yea there are a lot of rez mechanics that could go in the deck with Rick at the helm. I think if there was more density of human matters tribal cards Bruna likely would start making more sense at the helm of a human tribal deck. I suspect that right now its better to have Rick in charge with rez stuff in the list. If you had another 3-5 human tribal buff creatures it might be a different story but with the density of targets being what they are Rick might be better at the helm than in the 99.

Profound Journey - I have a little. The biggest problem is that its so expensive to cast. With that turn delay people can prepair for the next rez so if they have grave hate in hand or just tapped out for that one second you can have issues. Its nice in that it can rez anything but I think that tends to also be what I would rather use the effect for rather than rezing creatures I want to rez noncreatures with it more often. The effect is fine, its just expensive and there are a lot of impressive effects to be had for 7 mana.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

I whipped up a quick and dirty Bruna humans list. Its not complete by any means but I figured it would give some insight into where I was sort of going.

There actually were a number of surprising things I found with a quick dig for humans. Reverent Hoplite being a human and making human tokens is quite good for a human go wide concept. Victory's Envoy is really spooky for a go wide strategy even if it isn't super fast effect it needs to be answered quickly and the fact that bruna can rez it seems good. I still ended up including Archangel of Thune given that this was a go wide strategy I think its probably better here than in my current bruna list.

I put a few sac outlets in the list. I think Skullclamp with some sac effects could be really good where skullclamp doesn't already kill the creatures due to anthems.

Rick would give a more consistant proactive gameplan but I still think that if you have the density of targets that Bruna could be just fine. I like that she gives a nice big brick wall in the skies and I suspect that Rick might have some issues against sweepers Bruna gives a little consistency against interaction. I still don't know where I stand on this but I am far from ruling a Bruna humans idea out. If I were to shift to Rick as the commander I would likely run more of the lifegain trigger effects like Heliod 2.0 and some of the token gen on life gain.

I didn't include monarch in this build in part because I felt like I was giving up some level of my sweepers, control, and flying defenses moving to humans which might make it harder to do monarch.

EDIT: I think something else that is worth considering is that when you cast bruna your board widens by two creatures. When it comes to go wide anthem strategies numbers do matter and go wide decks tend to have issues with sweepers which Bruna does help quite a bit against. A number of the cards I included in here care about how many bodies we have in play and I think while Bruna is a little more reactive it focuses more on making you sticky. Getting Bruna + a valuable threat into play is a good start to rebuilding.


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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Gotta be honest, I don't have much to contribute to the discussion here. Partly that's because as a tribe humans don't particularly enthrall me. They're great for control which is why I run a core of them in my build, but dedicating to them specifically just doesn't really hold any interest for me. I like the duality of the list I've got at present, and I also like that it doesn't tribe overly. I've got my zombies elsewhere, and that's enough tribal for me. This is the primary reason I won't really contribute to this discussion.

The other side of this discussion around Rick vs Bruna is the profiteering aspect of things. You guys know I game on a relative budget so it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and I just won't go there with my money. It makes me think hard about how best I can spend my money to support my LGS without enabling WotC, which probably isn't easy. I won't derail the discussion any further, if you guys want to go ahead and discuss the pros and cons of either go right on ahead, I just don't wanna be Captain buzzkill and fixate on the grossness of recent events, and that's really the only context in which I'm invested in the discussion. Sorry, guys - by all means continue, I'll just step aside until I've got something more constructive to add.
Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Speaking of 7 mana rez spells... has anyone played Profound Journey at all?
I've played it elsewhere, but ISB hit it on the nose. It's hella expensive, and honestly, it's probably been outclassed by Brought Back since printing. Rebound makes it hard to get any real tempo from the card in a 4 player game, and with it at the same CMC as Emeria Shepherd I just know there's better value in a body on the field and a repeated effect.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

@toctheyounger I get what you mean on the budget element. I spend more money on this hobby than many and I really enjoy having access to most cards. The worst part of it for me is that I really love playing white as a color, both in mono color and in multicolored so the fact that Rick is mono white made it that much harder for me to pass on him.

Its fine if you aren't interested in mono tribing Bruna. I think its likely still far away from being optimal but I just like Bruna enough that I like exploring additional concepts. As it stands, I think there still isn't really a valid reason to force a mono tribe yet but I think if we continue to see tribal focused human and angel cards it can create reasons to do it.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
As it stands, I think there still isn't really a valid reason to force a mono tribe yet but I think if we continue to see tribal focused human and angel cards it can create reasons to do it.
Oh for sure. Humans are one of the stronger tribes in a lot of formats, and the more we see of them the more feasible it will become.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
The other side of this discussion around Rick vs Bruna is the profiteering aspect of things. You guys know I game on a relative budget so it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and I just won't go there with my money. It makes me think hard about how best I can spend my money to support my LGS without enabling WotC, which probably isn't easy.
I know what you mean. I'm very much not a budget player; I own a cEDH player's wet dream as far as collections go. Casual, too, everything from an unlimited Timetwister to fun-but-junk like Mirror Universe. There are cards I don't own, but not many, and I'm okay with that.

I won't buy the Walking Dead Secret Lair, either.

The policies that made Timetwister and Mirror Universe's prices possible are predatory and gross, and WDSLD is a continuation of that.

Any participation I have in this discussion is purely speculative interest in how it would look, from a theory basis.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

So, I recently put Gideon Jura in for some testing and I actually was quite impressed with what it did. I ended up taunting two players with it and it really forced opponents into some awkward situations against my larger creatures. It seemed like some really good commander harassing as well as utility creature removal. Immediately dropping in and going up to 8 loyalty is really kind of nuts.

I wasn't really expecting much, but it really actually was fairly good. For the same reason that monarch is such a bugger to steal away from us, Gideon is kind of funny as removal.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
So, I recently put Gideon Jura in for some testing and I actually was quite impressed with what it did. I ended up taunting two players with it and it really forced opponents into some awkward situations against my larger creatures. It seemed like some really good commander harassing as well as utility creature removal. Immediately dropping in and going up to 8 loyalty is really kind of nuts.

I wasn't really expecting much, but it really actually was fairly good. For the same reason that monarch is such a bugger to steal away from us, Gideon is kind of funny as removal.
Do you still run The Immortal Sun? I was wondering where the line is where you can't realistically add more walkers.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
So, I recently put Gideon Jura in for some testing and I actually was quite impressed with what it did. I ended up taunting two players with it and it really forced opponents into some awkward situations against my larger creatures. It seemed like some really good commander harassing as well as utility creature removal. Immediately dropping in and going up to 8 loyalty is really kind of nuts.

I wasn't really expecting much, but it really actually was fairly good. For the same reason that monarch is such a bugger to steal away from us, Gideon is kind of funny as removal.
How long does Gideon survive? Seems like he'd struggle to make it through more than a turn cycle or so. Otherwise I really like the concept of goading our opponents. He's just such a weird walker, I've never really played around with him significantly enough to know how good he is.
Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Do you still run The Immortal Sun? I was wondering where the line is where you can't realistically add more walkers.
I've just cut it today (and will update probably over night). It's just steep for card draw. The extra control is nice, but at that point I want to be casting bombs and the Sun is not the best, cheapest, nor easiest way this deck can draw.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Do you still run The Immortal Sun? I was wondering where the line is where you can't realistically add more walkers.
I haven't for some time. Its draw is really slow and the cost reduction / anthem elements of the card don't fit very well for this type of deck. I found it to mostly be a Staff of Nin with instead of poking tokens hating on walkers. Its a reasonable card but a lot of the reasons to play it don't get checkmarked by this deck.
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
How long does Gideon survive? Seems like he'd struggle to make it through more than a turn cycle or so. Otherwise I really like the concept of goading our opponents. He's just such a weird walker, I've never really played around with him significantly enough to know how good he is.
I haven't tested it enough to say too much. I ended up taunting two players and removing most of their boards with it. I also forced the second player to burn a bunch of removal to keep his commander alive and at that point Gideon still had two loyalty and I cashed him out for a commander kill.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Rick, IMO, is actually very powerful and could make waves in any format where humans are a thing.
I don't know if this is the right place but I feel like we're all friends here and this thread is more than just Bruna collab, I just want to say, I called it. @toctheyounger @ISBPathfinder

https://articles.starcitygames.com/news ... king-dead/

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
Rick, IMO, is actually very powerful and could make waves in any format where humans are a thing.
I don't know if this is the right place but I feel like we're all friends here and this thread is more than just Bruna collab, I just want to say, I called it. @toctheyounger @ISBPathfinder

https://articles.starcitygames.com/news ... king-dead/
Yeah, I saw this. Legacy isn't EDH, but this is still ominous. Either way, the die is cast from the RC's perspective, it just remains to be seen how far down the power creep slope the RC is willing to slide with SL's.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I haven't tested it enough to say too much. I ended up taunting two players and removing most of their boards with it. I also forced the second player to burn a bunch of removal to keep his commander alive and at that point Gideon still had two loyalty and I cashed him out for a commander kill.
I see - it's kind of a neat trick, to be honest. Given that we're predominantly combat wins, this is a neat strategy. And Gideon is super cheap with the recent printings in Archenemy, Spellbook etc (although I hate the art on them, I'd want the original Gideon Jura|Rise of the Eldrazi printing for my aesthetic neuroses).

Might be too early to tell based on what you've said so far, but how useful are the 0 and -2 abilities, if at all?
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

It is concerning from the standpoint that the price tag of Rick as a single just went way up assuming this legacy deck isn't just a one hit wonder. I guess the upside is that its showing itself while it can still be bought rather than after the sale of the product ends. That might just mean wizards money printer gets more work in but I think its probably better that way than to have found this after sales have closed.

Legacy wanting one of these cards puts pressure on wizards to either need to reprint it very quickly, extend their printing of this product to other means, or ban it in Legacy.

The only real impact I see of this for EDH is going to be the secondary market price for Rick. I don't think it makes the card more or less offensive for this format but hopefully it puts some more pressure on wizards to not do this again.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I haven't tested it enough to say too much. I ended up taunting two players and removing most of their boards with it. I also forced the second player to burn a bunch of removal to keep his commander alive and at that point Gideon still had two loyalty and I cashed him out for a commander kill.
I see - it's kind of a neat trick, to be honest. Given that we're predominantly combat wins, this is a neat strategy. And Gideon is super cheap with the recent printings in Archenemy, Spellbook etc (although I hate the art on them, I'd want the original Gideon Jura|Rise of the Eldrazi printing for my aesthetic neuroses).

Might be too early to tell based on what you've said so far, but how useful are the 0 and -2 abilities, if at all?
I think his +2 and -2 are the ones I plan to use. The +0 ability doesn't seem very relevant but I could see dropping him in with an immediate kill or the taunt functions both being really nice. I plan to let him ride and see what else he does for me but the first time seeing him I essentially got to tear up two boards with him and force spot removal on my commander which is hilariously ineffective.

I also agree that OG art Gideon is the way to go. Its the one I am using myself.
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Post by not-a-cube » 3 years ago

Played my first game with bruna yesterday (damn virus) and I had a blast, the recursion is pretty strong, I bounced back from 3 consecutive boardwipes and was out-ramping the green deck at some point. Land Tax opener was ok, but I started so it only got online when i dropped Lotus Field. Emeria Shepherd + Bruna, the Fading Light + anything is pretty nice value for the cost of one commander and a plains. Just dropping a plains actually felt like the best play everytime. Unfortunatly my Magus of the Moat got hated out and the mono green player went: Tooth and NailAvenger of Zendikar + Regal ForceFinale of DevastationCraterhoof Behemoth
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

@not-a-cube tokens can be quite the problem even with all of the things we can run to stop them. Going wide with overruns is really tough to stop every time and something I constantly try to kill that player or the combo player when I can as I feel like my long game vs the control decks is actually fairly good. Depending on how often token go wide tactics are a problem, there is definitely room to beef up the token defenses in this deck. I don't think any of us (that I have seen lists for) are running Ghostly Prison for example. Fogs / Teferi's Protection / Comeuppance can all be useful against many of these tactics too but take some playing around keeping them up. Crovax, Ascendant Hero / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can also be quite savage but a bit more dedicated to the hate.

I have historically seen a good bit of token tactics in my meta but have more recently been seeing a few more combo / alt wincon tactics used which I have been adjusting to. Tokens are tricky as often drawing multiple anti token cards at a time can slow down your gameplan. If it's something you consider a high priority to deal with though there are plenty of things to consider for defense though.

Also, passive defense cards like Magus of the Moat / Magus of the Tabernacle are great but the more interaction you see in your meta the more questionable they tend to become. If they get torn down quickly and consistently it can sometimes be better to have something with immediate returns rather than a "while this lives" kind of defense mechanic. Every meta is different so you will have to sort of figure that out yourself.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Hallowed Moonlight hoses that entire win con and draws you a card.

And yeah, Emeria Shepherd is just stupendous value. Worth every cent and every mana.
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