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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
What are you looking to do with guardian beyond the swans and azor's gateway tricks? Have you looked at artifact clones - have Mirage Mirror copy guardian then turn it blue with architect so it survives the fight for example? I'm assuming your trying to do more than just flip it though.

Edit: some more random thoughts.

Stuffy Doll plus architect?

Some nonsense with Freed from the Real effects?

Intruder Alarm + instant speed blink to leverage the token creation and architect to keep multi tapping guardian before fights?

Jeskai Ascendancy is surely a role player in here somehow. Again, instant speed blink with an ascendancy trigger on the stack plus architect can do mana stuff. Pentad Prism bounce shenanigans maybe?

All of these probably need some mana filter effect, which is tough. Ascendancy and a dork that makes blue can do it too. Ofcourse if you're untapping multiple robots the mana loss normally tied to conversion is no issue.
I just want some sort of 4 card infinite, whatever that may be. I play specifically 4-card infinite combos, I play Golden Guardian, at this point it's a personal challenge to combine the two, and with Mind Over Matter I had done it for a short while.

Freed from the Real and Intruder Alarm are both no good so long as March of the Machines and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker are around respectively.

Jeskai Ascendancy is tough, cause I'd need to turn fighting into casting noncreature spells somehow.

Stuffy Doll, or some other natively indestructible creature might be a start. If I did Heliod, Sun-Crowned, gave both lifelink with Heliod, and then packed the +1/+1 counters onto Crystalline Crawler, that would do it, but the end result would be one dead opponent and that's it. I could do Brash Taunter instead to kill the table, which would deal 1 to Guardian, but that would also trigger Heliod, so I could put a counter on each time to offset the damage.

Of course, Heliod was something I avoided because I feared it was too easy a combo piece, providing both lifelink and survivability in an Arcbond combo, but I would need 2 copies of Arcbond, Heliod, and a way to deal exactly 1 damage to a creature, which is definitely 4 parts. I can't just count on combat damage to do exactly 1 damage, and I certainly have 4th cards that can fill that role. It would be the most directly I've ever fit Firestorm into a combo, and also Brash Taunter does specifically 1 damage to a creature, and also those two red cards with Mirrorweave would be jank city. This might be the answer.

Side note: if they didn't put the word "may" into Kwain, Itinerant Meddler's ability, I would definitely be trying to sneak Punishing Fire in here. That would be super slick.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Doubling down on my own ranting from earlier, Brash Taunter seems like the right fit. As much as I love Stuffy Doll, which is a lot, and how much I wish it was the right card, I think Taunter is the card. It's brutal with all my many damage to creature options, weird with Mirrorweave, and probably ridiculous with Jeskai Ascendancy. Whenever I cast a noncreature spell, untap my fight machine and make it bigger to fight things? Sign me up. Even if "Brash Taunter" is a bit less clever a name than "Goblin Diplomats".
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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Stuffy Doll something something Heliod, Sun-Crowned something something Brash Taunter
Yeeeeeeees... join the dark side lol.

In all seriousness, the first thing that came to mind for me was Changelings (because that's always the first thing that comes to mind for me now).

Golden Guardian can win the game with Arcbond, Flawless Maneuver, and Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. If you make both indestructible and Arcbond Malcolm. Its not infinite, but if you have the highest life total you can most likely kill everyone else.

There's a lot of room for refinement (giving Malcolm lifelink helps a lot to say the least), but I think at the very least Malcolm +Arcbond could get there.

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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Golden Guardian can win the game with Arcbond, Flawless Maneuver, and Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. If you make both indestructible and Arcbond Malcolm. Its not infinite, but if you have the highest life total you can most likely kill everyone else.

There's a lot of room for refinement (giving Malcolm lifelink helps a lot to say the least), but I think at the very least Malcolm +Arcbond could get there.
That's pretty neat! With 1 opponent, it doesn't work, but 3 or more you start getting extra mana, not to mention nuking everyone's creatures, so finding a way to make it lethal without killing yourself shouldn't be an issue.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Maybe a Basilisk Collar needs to be in the mix? Lifegain for your arcbond/fight loops and deathtouch for easy guardian flips.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Maybe a Basilisk Collar needs to be in the mix? Lifegain for your arcbond/fight loops and deathtouch for easy guardian flips.
Also a tool with Nin, and Inferno Titan, and Brash Taunter.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Ok. I've played a bit with most of the things I've been looking at adding, and I shuffled some sleeves about, and right now it looks like this:
Greatest of All Time
Approximate Total Cost:

Outside Looking In (in order of likelihood):
-Temple Bell: Might hot-swap for Dictate of Kruphix, might try and play both.
-Emeria's Call:Might swap back in over Glasspool Mimic, might play regular land instead.
-Dream Halls: to replace the explosive turns lost cutting Mind Over Matter.
-Archangel of Thune: the missing lifegain payoff.
-Sudden Substitution: didn't want to cut this.
-Vanish into Memory: didn't want to cut this.
-Venser, Shaper Savant: always love this card.
-Dissipation Field: I have the other 3 parts of this combo in, so I keep this in mind as a re-add.
-Nahiri's Wrath: Deck just got even more benefit from mega-damaging my things.
-Body of Knowledge: listing this, but I think I talked myself out of it. It's just a lot more awkward than swans cause you have to track damage on it as you pay cards from hand.

Inside, But Cuttable (in no particular order):
-Aforementioned Dictate of Kruphix and Glasspool Mimic, as those are just a matter of honing in my mana base and Howling Mine suite. Nothing earth-shaking in that discussion.
-Rest in Peace: I have many variations of that combo that don't need this, but I like my graveyard hate/combo piece.
-Vedalken Orrery: when I needed 3 points of flash, my deck had like 4 instants total. Additionally, I'm much heavier on creatures with tap abilities, where flashing them in isn't that much more interactive. Additionally, when I was on Shimmer Myr or Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, being able to flash those into flash orrery into flash everything was a nice tool to have, but Electrodominance can flash Leyline of Anticipation, which is the version of this I most want to keep forever.
-Catch // Release: it's not as necessary as it was when Strionic Resonator combo was involved, I still like it though.
-Mirrormade: might be redundancy I don't actually need.
-Nin, the Pain Artist: just got back in because of cutting Mind Over Matter and thinking about Body of Knowledge, but if I'm not playing Body of Knowledge anyway, maybe I don't add it afterall.
-Drogskol Reaver: stopped being an infinite combo piece with Mind Over Matter cut. I would love to fix that, but haven't found a way yet. I feel like I need this top-end target for Kiki and Mirrorweave though.
-Gnostro, Voice of the Crags: has not quite earned the slot, but that's a project for me. Technically contributes to an infinite, because Heliod/Arcbond combo is finished by anything that can ping a creature for exactly 1, but I'd prefer to do more. If I get Dream Halls in, Gnostro/Swans/Ascendancy/Halls is sort of a non-deterministic combo, that I'd be willing to count because otherwise Swans of Bryn Argoll isn't in a 4-card combo at the moment. And maybe there's something in Gnostro to make Drogskol Reaver go off.
-Mindmoil: 0.00000001% chance I ever cut this, but it's a card that's not really part of any combo or synergy, it's just a sweet, messed-up card on it's own. So like, when looking for cuts, I often focus on what aren't combo pieces, which means Mindmoil/Possibility Storm/Knowledge Pool hit that pile, the latter 2 aren't going anywhere ever because they're just too deck defining, but I could technically cut Mindmoil if I wanted to, which I don't.

On that note, non-combo pieces:
-Mindmoil
-Knowledge Pool
-Possibility Storm
-Drogskol Reaver
-Swans of Bryn Argoll
-Mirrorweave

I believe that is every card in the deck right now that doesn't tap for mana (necessary to combo), draw cards every turn (necessary for infinite turns combo), or explicitly contribute to a 4-card finisher. The top 3, I concede I'm not making go infinite. The bottom 3 I'm trying my best to do so. Archangel of Thune would take Mirrorweave off this list, though I would gladly play Mirrorweave regardless. Dream Halls I would argue would take Swans off the list. I could stretch the argument and say if someone can't block, Reaver draws cards for infinite turns combo.

If anyone has a better idea for infinite Swans or Reaver with minimal changes, I'm all ears.

Edit: I forgot Role Reversal and Vedalken Plotter when listing non-infinite cards, but that's again concessions to the identity of the deck that I feel no need to make infinite.
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Post by Sefir » 3 years ago

Isn't Mirrorweave a 4 card combo with Precursion Golem, Archbond and something that deals dmg (Firestorm/Electrodominance/Shatterscull Smashing//Nahiri's Wrath)?Adding Jeskai Charm if we do not have the highest total ofc.

EDIT: I still believe that Retraction Helix is a better fit in this deck than Banishing Knack due to the far more fitting flavor text. :P
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
Isn't Mirrorweave a 4 card combo with Precursion Golem, Archbond and something that deals dmg (Firestorm/Shatterscull Smashing//Nahiri's Wrath)?Adding Jeskai Charm if we do not have the highest total ofc.
Maybe? That's fair. I usually think I need more creatures in play to make that work, but I guess that kills from 40 with a 6 damage source. It's certainly no more of a stretch than other 4-card combos I've counted in my mind. Earlier I was imagining getting Dream Halls in and having Swans/Pandemonium/Dream Halls/creatures as a soft 4-card combo, especially if I can get little Venser back in, and that's way more borderline a thing to call a "combo".

Good call. This deck is such a fun puzzle game.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

So I've convinced myself, at least for the time being, to swap Dream Halls in for Vedalken Orrery and Temple Bell in for Dictate of Kruphix. And Sefir has convinced me to put Archangel of Thune out of my mind. So now I've condensed my considerations down to the following:

Things that might be cut:
Nin, the Pain Artist
Gnostro, Voice of the Crags
Rest in Peace
Catch // Release

Thanks that could get added:
Sudden Substitution
Venser, Shaper Savant
Dictate of Kruphix
Reliquary Tower (or some other land that suits my fancy, just to get one more in)

Additionally, I have no experience yet with Brash Taunter and Heliod, Sun-Crowned, so that whole strategy could potentially still get dropped if those cards don't do anything fun for me, but for now I;m pretending they're locked in as I try out various combinations of that list of cards. And thus begins a lot of goldfishing.
Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
EDIT: I still believe that Retraction Helix is a better fit in this deck than Banishing Knack due to the far more fitting flavor text. :P
I don't think Banishing Knack is that much worse in flavor text, and I prefer the name and art by a pretty big margin.
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Post by Zymbi » 3 years ago

Hello @tstorm823 . First of all this deck ''idea'' is exactly what i was looking for. An near infinite possibilities puzzle toolkit! Now i have an question for you. I just dont understand the Rest in peace, Mirror of fate, extra turn spell and font of myhtos combo for some reason. The part where iam stuck at is that Mirror of fate exiles your entire library? So how can i chain infinite turns if there are no cards left.

Again, you sir are brilliant and iam eager to make my own version!

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Post by rmelzer1986 » 3 years ago

Zymbi wrote:
3 years ago
Hello @tstorm823 . First of all this deck ''idea'' is exactly what i was looking for. An near infinite possibilities puzzle toolkit! Now i have an question for you. I just dont understand the Rest in peace, Mirror of fate, extra turn spell and font of myhtos combo for some reason. The part where iam stuck at is that Mirror of fate exiles your entire library? So how can i chain infinite turns if there are no cards left.

Again, you sir are brilliant and iam eager to make my own version!
The key is that the Mirror effectively exiles itself while Rest in Peace is on the battlefield when it normally doesn't, so you can include it in your "Doomsday" pile allowing you to take an extra turn every turn. With Font, you can not only draw your miracle extra turn spell and the Mirror, but also a third card that can allow you to piece another combo together one card at a time.

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Post by Sefir » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Sefir has convinced me to put Archangel of Thune out of my mind.
She is one of my most beloved creatures, but I agree that there is no space. And if you run Heliod there is also no reason to.
tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Additionally, I have no experience yet with Brash Taunter and Heliod, Sun-Crowned, so that whole strategy could potentially still get dropped if those cards don't do anything fun for me, but for now I;m pretending they're locked in as I try out various combinations of that list of cards. And thus begins a lot of goldfishing.
I do not use Heliod in my version (and probably never will. Everyone gets very scared once he hits the field and I get targeted), but Taunter is excellent for me, both on its own and as part of the Precursion Golem/Clone/Archbond combo but mostly as part of the Bonus Round (or Narset's Reversal)/Archbond/Clone combo. I still want to find a 4-card combo that I can use him without Arcbond though, preferably without Heliod.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Zymbi wrote:
3 years ago
Hello @tstorm823 . First of all this deck ''idea'' is exactly what i was looking for. An near infinite possibilities puzzle toolkit! Now i have an question for you. I just dont understand the Rest in peace, Mirror of fate, extra turn spell and font of myhtos combo for some reason. The part where iam stuck at is that Mirror of fate exiles your entire library? So how can i chain infinite turns if there are no cards left.

Again, you sir are brilliant and iam eager to make my own version!
Thank you for posting! The question's already been answered, but I rarely turn down an opportunity to break this down to excruciating detail, so:

Imagine you have Mirror of Fate, Rest in Peace, and Font of Mythos in play,
You draw your first card per turn: it's Temporal Mastery! Yay, Time Walk. You cast it with miracle.
Now Font of Mythos' trigger is still on the stack, so draw an extra two cards.
Activate Mirror of Fate. When you sacrifice it, it is exiled by Rest in Peace as a replacement effect.
Choose up to 7 cards you own in exile, then exile your library and replace it with the chosen cards. The top card is Temporal Mastery, the second card is Mirror of Fate, the third card is anything that happened to be exiled.
Go to the first extra turn. Your first draw is Temporal Mastery, go figure! Cast it. Then you draw Mirror of Fate and another card.
Cast Mirror of Fate, activate it again, and stack your library the same way, except this time you can pick your 3rd card from any of the pile you exiled with the first Mirror activation. Pass to the extra turn.
Lather, rinse, repeat. Pick anything you want to kill the opponents.

Like, yes Mirror of Fate exiles the whole library, but it puts back up to 7 cards each activation, which can pull from the ones previously exiled by Mirror of Fate. I think that's what you're missing.
Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
I do not use Heliod in my version (and probably never will. Everyone gets very scared once he hits the field and I get targeted), but Taunter is excellent for me, both on its own and as part of the Precursion Golem/Clone/Archbond combo but mostly as part of the Bonus Round (or Narset's Reversal)/Archbond/Clone combo. I still want to find a 4-card combo that I can use him without Arcbond though, preferably without Heliod.
Being a flavor of Stuffy Doll, I think old conventions would suggest something like Pariah, but that's harder to do with Taunter. You could like Pariah it, then donate it to someone, then enchant it with Curiosity, then Mindslaver them to force them to target you, and 5-card kill one opponent, which would be exciting exactly once and be a good play literally never.

I'll think about this. No Heliod, no Arcbond, use Brash Taunter to go infinite. There's probably a variation that works with Archangel of Thune if that card is acceptable, but I'll see what I can brain up in a totally different direction.
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Post by Zymbi » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Zymbi wrote:
3 years ago
Hello @tstorm823 . First of all this deck ''idea'' is exactly what i was looking for. An near infinite possibilities puzzle toolkit! Now i have an question for you. I just dont understand the Rest in peace, Mirror of fate, extra turn spell and font of myhtos combo for some reason. The part where iam stuck at is that Mirror of fate exiles your entire library? So how can i chain infinite turns if there are no cards left.

Again, you sir are brilliant and iam eager to make my own version!
Thank you for posting! The question's already been answered, but I rarely turn down an opportunity to break this down to excruciating detail, so:

Imagine you have Mirror of Fate, Rest in Peace, and Font of Mythos in play,
You draw your first card per turn: it's Temporal Mastery! Yay, Time Walk. You cast it with miracle.
Now Font of Mythos' trigger is still on the stack, so draw an extra two cards.
Activate Mirror of Fate. When you sacrifice it, it is exiled by Rest in Peace as a replacement effect.
Choose up to 7 cards you own in exile, then exile your library and replace it with the chosen cards. The top card is Temporal Mastery, the second card is Mirror of Fate, the third card is anything that happened to be exiled.
Go to the first extra turn. Your first draw is Temporal Mastery, go figure! Cast it. Then you draw Mirror of Fate and another card.
Cast Mirror of Fate, activate it again, and stack your library the same way, except this time you can pick your 3rd card from any of the pile you exiled with the first Mirror activation. Pass to the extra turn.
Lather, rinse, repeat. Pick anything you want to kill the opponents.

Like, yes Mirror of Fate exiles the whole library, but it puts back up to 7 cards each activation, which can pull from the ones previously exiled by Mirror of Fate. I think that's what you're missing.
Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
I do not use Heliod in my version (and probably never will. Everyone gets very scared once he hits the field and I get targeted), but Taunter is excellent for me, both on its own and as part of the Precursion Golem/Clone/Archbond combo but mostly as part of the Bonus Round (or Narset's Reversal)/Archbond/Clone combo. I still want to find a 4-card combo that I can use him without Arcbond though, preferably without Heliod.
Being a flavor of Stuffy Doll, I think old conventions would suggest something like Pariah, but that's harder to do with Taunter. You could like Pariah it, then donate it to someone, then enchant it with Curiosity, then Mindslaver them to force them to target you, and 5-card kill one opponent, which would be exciting exactly once and be a good play literally never.

I'll think about this. No Heliod, no Arcbond, use Brash Taunter to go infinite. There's probably a variation that works with Archangel of Thune if that card is acceptable, but I'll see what I can brain up in a totally different direction.
Thank you for the detailed explaination! Because the Rest in peace keeps exiling whatever you cast and resolve u keep having the exiled cards. So the only important thing is that the 7 cards u exile can win you the game i guess! Thanks again!

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

@Sefir this is probably too efficient for this deck but there's always the option of the classic Guilty Conscience combo with Stuffy (and now Taunter).

Other than that, the first things that come to mind for constructing a combo with Taunter outside of Arcbond/Heliod is Gideon's Sacrifice (basically an instant speed Pariah for one turn) and Volcano Hellion. It will only kill two players unless you blink/bounce the Hellion, but I just really love being able to say "tap four, cast Volcano Hellion, dome you for 10 trillion damage" it seriously never gets old (for me at least, not so much my opponents).

I dont run Pariah/Sacrifice personally, but while we're on the subject, they have great synergy with Swans as well

Edit: Come to think of it, Gideon's Sacrifice does something Pariah doesn't, it redirects damage that would be dealt to your other creatures to the target. As far as I can tell that means it could slot into an Arcbond combo in lieu of a copy effect. I might have to reconsider running it myself.

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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Volcanic Hellion is certainly a thought, but not if instant speed lifelink is in the deck, cause two-card combo to gain arbitrary life is a bit problematic.
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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

I mean, I see where you're coming from, but in a world with commander damage, Aetherflux Reservoirs and Thoracle combos, I dont think having 10 trillion life isn't exactly game breaking imo.

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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
I mean, I see where you're coming from, but in a world with commander damage, Aetherflux Reservoirs and Thoracle combos, I dont think having 10 trillion life isn't exactly game breaking imo.
It's not that it's gamebreaking, it's just a miserable play pattern. Like, there's little immediate benefit to having 10 trillion life vs having 40. Generally speaking, it just makes everyone have to team up on you, even if you don't otherwise have the resources to play archenemy. So it's wiser not to gain 10 trillion life and keep your threat level managed, but then you're only going to gain 10 trillion life as a desperation move, and you just end up extending the part of the game where you're not dead but you're not gonna win. I've gained infinite life my fair share and I've generally hated the experience. The only good outcome is letting your opponents feel good about overcoming the infinite life, but that is as you say not really that big a deal, so even that isn't that fun.

Unrelated, I was thinking further on "Narset's Reversal/Archbond/Clone/Taunter combo" Sefir mentioned, and realized that also lets Mirrorweave combo, as the clone part, BUT only if played on the next player's turn so they can't kill you with their copies of Taunter. And that's the kind of specificity that makes me feel all warm inside.
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Post by Zymbi » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
I mean, I see where you're coming from, but in a world with commander damage, Aetherflux Reservoirs and Thoracle combos, I dont think having 10 trillion life isn't exactly game breaking imo.
It's not that it's gamebreaking, it's just a miserable play pattern. Like, there's little immediate benefit to having 10 trillion life vs having 40. Generally speaking, it just makes everyone have to team up on you, even if you don't otherwise have the resources to play archenemy. So it's wiser not to gain 10 trillion life and keep your threat level managed, but then you're only going to gain 10 trillion life as a desperation move, and you just end up extending the part of the game where you're not dead but you're not gonna win. I've gained infinite life my fair share and I've generally hated the experience. The only good outcome is letting your opponents feel good about overcoming the infinite life, but that is as you say not really that big a deal, so even that isn't that fun.

Unrelated, I was thinking further on "Narset's Reversal/Archbond/Clone/Taunter combo" Sefir mentioned, and realized that also lets Mirrorweave combo, as the clone part, BUT only if played on the next player's turn so they can't kill you with their copies of Taunter. And that's the kind of specificity that makes me feel all warm inside.
Hello Tstorm!

Could you explain some of the new combos that u added in? I love reading about them. Greets. Zymbi

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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Zymbi wrote:
3 years ago
Hello Tstorm!

Could you explain some of the new combos that u added in? I love reading about them. Greets. Zymbi
I can, but I must lead by saying, I can't really take credit for basically any of the recent additions. But I can certainly explain them, and I may as well cover everything more recent than the last time I updated the front post, and then I'll have premade descriptions when I eventually do update:

Narset's Reversal/Bonus Round/Turnabout/Jeskai Charm:
SPOILER
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Cast Bonus Round. All instants and sorceries are doubled.
Cast Turnabout: Bonus Round triggers copying Turnabout. Untap all your lands.
Cast Narset's Reversal targeting the original Turnabout: Bonus Round triggers copying Narset's Reversal.
Target the original Narset's Reversal with the copy. It resolves, bouncing the original Reversal and making another copy of reversal that targets the original Turnabout. This copy resolves, bouncing Turnabout and copying it, untapping even more lands. Narset's Reversal and Turnabout are both back in hand with Bonus Round still active.
This process can be repeated indefinitely, for arbitrary tap or untaps of every artifact, creature, or land in play, but that doesn't actually end the game, so we need a 4th piece. Luckily, with infinite mana floating, we can use the trick of Narset's Reversal bouncing itself on any instant of sorcery in the deck. So, for example, we can repeatedly copy Jeskai Charm as many times as we want dealing 4 damage to an opponent each time until they all die.
Narset's Reversal/Time Spiral/Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx/Mirror of Fate
SPOILER
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First, we need 6 lands that collectively tap for more than 8 mana. The easiest way to do this is Nykthos with 6 blue pips in play.
Second, we need our hand, graveyard, and library to have exactly 7 cards, which almost certainly involves Mirror of Fate.
Third, we tap our 6 lands for 9 mana and cast Time Spiral. In response to our own Time Spiral, we cast Narset's Reversal targeting Time Spiral. Reversal resolves, copying Time Spiral, putting the original Spiral in hand and Reversal in the graveyard, so the 7 total cards are all in a zone that will shuffle back together. Resolve the copy of Time Spiral, shuffle your 7 cards, draw all 7, and then untap the 6 lands. Repeat this indefinitely to make infinite mana. Then we just use the Mirror of Fate that's theoretically been shuffled a million times to pull whatever card we want out of exile to end the game.
Jeskai Ascendancy/Banishing Knack/Pentad Prism/a creature
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Target your favorite creature with Banishing Knack (or Retraction Helix if you must). Tap the creature to bounce Pentad Prism. Cast the Prism, triggering Jeskai Ascendancy to untap the creature. Remove the counters to make two mana, which will be used to recast the Prism after you bounce it again. Lather, rinse, repeat. This gives infinite looting, infinite untaps of any other creatures around, and infinite power and toughness. If you've got the mana, just use the loot to dig out Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and go infinitely wide around any blockers that might cause you trouble. This combo also works with Pentad Prism as the free artifact.
Jeskai Ascendancy/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Cavalier of Dawn/Lotus Petal
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Kiki-Jiki makes a copy of Cavalier of Dawn.
Cavalier destroys itself, returning Lotus Petal from graveyard to hand.
Cast Lotus Petal, triggering Jeskai Ascendancy.
Jeskai Ascendancy untaps Kik-Jiki. That's a complete loop, again giving infinite loots, untaps, and power boosts, and also mana in this combo. Dig out Sakashima the Impostor with the looting, make a second Kiki-Jiki, and then continue the loop making extra hasty Cavalier to kill opponents with. This combo does not work with Pentad Prism like the last one does.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Unbender Tine/March of the Machines/Turnabout
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March of the machines makes Unberder Tine a creature.
Activate Kiki-Jiki, copying Unbender Tine.
Activate the new Unbender Tine, untapping Kiki-Jiki.
Repeat forever. You now have infinite tapped Unbender Tines.
Cast Turnabout, untapping all creatures. Attack.

Alternatives: Jeskai Ascendancy also untaps creatures, Pandemonium deals direct damage to players, Temporal Mastery gives an extra turn so you can execute the combo on your end step and untap with the copies for the extra turn. You can also do it without the extra turn, but that involves all 3 pieces not being removed before the end of the turn before yours, and people are pretty good about killing Kiki-Jiki asap.
Brash Taunter/Heliod, Sun-Crowned/Golden Guardian/Crystalline Crawler
SPOILER
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Use Heliod's activated ability to give both Taunter and Guardian lifelink.
Use Guardian's activated ability to make it fight Taunter. They hit each other, triggering Heliod twice with lifelink.
Put two counters on Crystalline Crawler.
Taunter deals 4 damage to an opponent, trigger Heliod a 3rd time. Put the counter on Golden Guardian to offset the damage from fighting the Taunter.
Use the counters on Crawler to fight again, dealing 4 damage to an opponent each time through, until only you remain.
If you have Emeria's Call instead of Brash Taunter, you can make Guardian and Crawler indestructible and fight forever the same way, but the only result of the loop is infinite life, so who cares.
Heliod, Sun-Crowned/Precursor Golem/Arcbond/a source of exactly 1 damage
SPOILER
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Give 2 Golems lifelink with Heliod.
Target a golem with Arcbond, which copies to all Golems.
Deal 1 damage to a golem, triggering Arcbond. The Golem damages all creatures triggering Heliod through lifelink. Put the counter on any golem, and name that golem Toby. The damage from Arcbond triggers the Arcbond on all the other golems. Put the Arcbond trigger from Toby on the top of the pile so it resolves first, dealing damage to everything, again triggering Heliod through lifelink. Put the counter from Heliod on a second golem and name it Bartholomew. So long as you keep putting the counters on Toby and Bartholomew alternating, they'll continually get big enough to survive the damage back and forth, and in the meantime you're dealing 1 to each opponent and gaining a bunch of life every cycle.
Brash Taunter/Clone/Arcbond/way to copy Arcbond
SPOILER
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Have 2 copies of Brash Taunter. This can be Sakashima, Saheeli, Mirrorweave... pick your favorite clone mechanism.
Target both of them with Arcbond. This can be Bonus Round, Narset's Reversal, Eye of the Storm... any way to copy Arcbond.
Deal any amount of damage, which conveniently enough Taunter does to itself by fighting a creature.
From there, the damage bounces back and forth between the 2 forever, and would draw the game if not for everyone dying from Arcbond damage. You also get machine gunned down, but ideally the Brash Taunter ability to damage opponents is enough to make sure all the opponents go down before you do.
If your clone mechanism is Mirrorweave, this combo needs to be executed on the next players turn, or they will get to resolve their Brash Taunter triggers before yours and they will aim them directly at you.
I think that covers everything.

Unrelated notes continuing my slow decision making process:

1) Poor Gnostro, I wanted to love you, but a storm outlet with summoning sickness is just like a big mana rock that enters tapped. It's a big, big problem to have, and I think it's gonna get you cut already.

2) I might not add Dream Halls back in after all. I've only been goldfishing since trying it back out the last few days, but it's very much a win big or lose big sort of card. Sometimes you drop it with a big draw spell in hand and proceed to end the game before passing the turn. And sometimes you try to do that, hit a clump of lands, and have to pass the turn with Dream Halls in play, which I take as an auto-loss, if you know what I mean.

3) Targeting Heliod with Cavalier is a mega big-brain feel smart play.
Last edited by tstorm823 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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Sefir
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Post by Sefir » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
I think that covers everything.
I don't want to be ''that guy'', but explain the Kiki/March of the Machines/Unbender Tine/Turnabout (or Pandemonium) combo as well for future references. :halo:

Great work though.
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Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Saclands
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
I don't want to be ''that guy'', but explain the Kiki/March of the Machines/Unbender Tine/Turnabout (or Pandemonium) combo as well for future references. :halo:

Great work though.
Dangit "that guy"!

I will get that added in promptly. Thank you.

Edit: also worth noting, that Time Spiral/Narset's Reversal I end the description with just, like, find a win condition. Having to manage hand size to deterministically draw 7 makes it way more complicated than that, and the likely solution is to cast permanent spells for each exiled card you want to bring in, but that depends on what is in hand and I can't concisely tell you the solution. Regardless, if anyone else is insane enough to try to win that way outside of just a proof of concept, I'm confident you can figure out the necessary balancing act.
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Post by Zymbi » 3 years ago

Thank you!!!! :D @tstorm823

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Post by Sefir » 3 years ago



Behold the unholy child of Sudden Substitution, Chaos Warp and Possibility Storm.
I love it.
Zedruu the Greathearted 4-Card Combos Puzzlebox
Gluntch, the Bestower Controlled Hug
Sliver Queen Enchantress
Dakkon Blackblade Miracles Control
Teneb, the Harvester Pestilence
Soul of Windgrace Loam Balance
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Saclands
Phelddagrif Hippo Factory Lifegain
Riku of Two Reflections Dragon's Approach
Damia, Sage of Stone Casual Food Chain

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