Mina and Denn's Hyperactive Nykthos

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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

The point of this deck is to activate Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as many times as you can. When you are making 30+ mana per turn you can do a lot!
Mina and Denn's Hyperactive Nykthos

Commander (1)

Artifacts (4)

Approximate Total Cost:

The gameplan is to ramp and get a bunch of devotion, tutor Nykthos, and then use Mina and Denn's abilities to activate Nykthos up to 3 times per turn.
Then you can add in things that untap lands to get additional activations.
The rest of the deck is basically card draw, interaction and a couple fun things like Top of the Library manipulation to go with cards that let you play the top card of your library, Possibility Storm... Also Wild Pair, while enabling a lot of fun stuff, also helps you shuffle your library if you don't like the top card.
There are a few lands in the deck that pair well with the commander - cycle a land later in the game for example!

There are some infinite combos with Temur Sabertooth and Urabrask the Hidden. Can you spot them?

As I acquire cards I will make more changes.

Here is a tentative list of cards I want to add to the deck. Obviously they won't all fit though :(
SPOILER
Show
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terror of the peaks
The Great henge
Nyxbloom ancient
kogla, the titan ape
Radha, heart of keld
heroic intervention
finale of devastation
ashaya
new kodama
ancient greewarden
Crucible of Worlds
argothonian elder
krosan restorer
fabled passage
castle garenbrig
Turntimber Symbiosis
shatterskull smashing
cragcrown pathway
bala ged recovery
prismatic vista
fire-lit thicket
Thawing Glaciers
Fetchlands - 3 added, 5 to go
Would definitely appreciate some help trimming this list down and finalizing my deck!
Last edited by Dunharrow 2 years ago, edited 10 times in total.
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Post by Venedrex » 2 years ago

May I suggest Crop Rotation? I loved it in my Tatyova, Benthic Druid deck, and with your stated goal of activating Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as many times as possible, a cheap way to tutor it might be good.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Pretty cool deck, looks like one of those ones where the curve is pretty telling - it's obviously fairly strong, fast, and explosive.

It's interesting that you have almost nothing that interacts at all. I feel like I'd slip a few removal spells in there, maybe even just a Thrashing Brontodon so you have outs to both Torpor Orb and Cursed Totem.
oh Pir's Whim is also legit great for a land tutor that does some tempo damage too

Things I could see cutting:
Random comments:
The three mana etb dorks just do nothing in this deck that you want to do.
Signet is pointless
devoted druid doesn't seem to combo with anything and is just a 2 cmc ramp spell that dies to sweepers - but there may be a combo piece I missed.
I also agree with basically everything on your cut list.
possibility storm doesn't seem great and I think Kogla, the Titan Ape or Apex Altisaur are improvements over thorn mammoth.

And things I would absolutely add -

A Green Sun's Zenith Dryad Arbor package to go along with Finale of Devastation that you want to add.

Nature's Lore and Three Visits over any signet effects.

Fetchlands and a play-from-graveyard suite plus Exploration package

Heroic Intervention is baller.

-----------------------------------------------------------

re: Charts and other high tech stuff

You have a bit of a glut at 5 and 6 in this deck if you look at the charts, and waaaaay less 2 cmc stuff than I would expect from a 4 CMC commander that is legit great a turn early. I would absolutely try to add a ton of 2 cmc ramp and I'd focus on land ramp guys

I get that you get nykthos pips from stuff like Wood Elves and Devoted Druid but they also over-expose you to sweepers which everyone wants to run against you. I'd be more inclined to run Sylvan Caryatid before either since it doesn't get pinged by random swords and jittes and stuff and makes red mana. But waaaay after the good 2 CMC ramp spells.

I had a Golos deck that had a very similar theme, and Thawing Glaciers was truly bananas as a backup plan to Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx -- I would highly recommend it.

Here's that deck if you wanted to snip ideas:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2598546

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Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

I also have a Mina & Denn deck that I've been running for a while now. A link to my list is in my signature, you might be able to get some inspiration from it. I'm running a significant bit of resource denial that may or may not be suitable for your own playgroup, but you totally don't need that stuff if you don't want it.

I second the notion that you could probably be running a bit more interaction/removal.

Crop Rotation definitely seems like a glaring omission. I'd add that for sure.

Has Sunbird's Invocation done a lot for you?

I'm surprised Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist is on the chopping block for you. I've always found it to be super solid. Her + ability when she flips is awesome.

Rampaging Baloths has always been super solid for me to really get aggressive.

When you are aggressive and can spend a lot of mana, stuff like Hurricane can catch people for a big chunk of damage.

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Pretty cool deck, looks like one of those ones where the curve is pretty telling - it's obviously fairly strong, fast, and explosive.

It's interesting that you have almost nothing that interacts at all. I feel like I'd slip a few removal spells in there, maybe even just a Thrashing Brontodon so you have outs to both Torpor Orb and Cursed Totem.
oh Pir's Whim is also legit great for a land tutor that does some tempo damage too
Thanks a lot for your comments. Originally the deck was an all permanents Ruric Thar mess. It slowly turned into this deck and removal is one of the main things I am seeking to improve. Beast Within is definitely something I want. Brontodon may work too.
Things I could see cutting:
Random comments:
The three mana etb dorks just do nothing in this deck that you want to do.
Signet is pointless
devoted druid doesn't seem to combo with anything and is just a 2 cmc ramp spell that dies to sweepers - but there may be a combo piece I missed.
I also agree with basically everything on your cut list.
possibility storm doesn't seem great and I think Kogla, the Titan Ape or Apex Altisaur are improvements over thorn mammoth. I think I want multiple of these effects tbh

And things I would absolutely add -

A Green Sun's Zenith Dryad Arbor package to go along with Finale of Devastation that you want to add. good ideas

Nature's Lore and Three Visits over any signet effects. 100% much better for the deck

Fetchlands and a play-from-graveyard suite plus Exploration package

Which play from the graveyard cards would you include?
Heroic Intervention is baller.

-----------------------------------------------------------

re: Charts and other high tech stuff

You have a bit of a glut at 5 and 6 in this deck if you look at the charts, and waaaaay less 2 cmc stuff than I would expect from a 4 CMC commander that is legit great a turn early. I would absolutely try to add a ton of 2 cmc ramp and I'd focus on land ramp guys

I get that you get nykthos pips from stuff like Wood Elves and Devoted Druid but they also over-expose you to sweepers which everyone wants to run against you. I'd be more inclined to run Sylvan Caryatid before either since it doesn't get pinged by random swords and jittes and stuff and makes red mana. But waaaay after the good 2 CMC ramp spells.

I had a Golos deck that had a very similar theme, and Thawing Glaciers was truly bananas as a backup plan to Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx -- I would highly recommend it.

Here's that deck if you wanted to snip ideas:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2598546
Thanks for your input. Helps me trim down the fat and make space for a lot of good cards.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I like the package of this for gy stuff:
Exploration
Loam
Ramunap excavator
Tranquil thicket
Sheltered Grove
Fabled passage
Prismatic vista
Other fetches to taste

I would probably not add azusa or dryad since mina provides the extra land drops but you may want to consider dryad plus valukut as an option for interaction since you have a lot of land tutors.

Woodland bellower really likes dryad and excavator tho which is also worth thinking on.

I don't think I play crucible of worlds in what I think is def a bane of progress deck

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Ruiner wrote:
2 years ago
I also have a Mina & Denn deck that I've been running for a while now. A link to my list is in my signature, you might be able to get some inspiration from it. I'm running a significant bit of resource denial that may or may not be suitable for your own playgroup, but you totally don't need that stuff if you don't want it.
It's not really the type of thing I want to do, but I may put in collector ouphe.. Not a bad idea
I second the notion that you could probably be running a bit more interaction/removal.

Crop Rotation definitely seems like a glaring omission. I'd add that for sure.
- Yup removal, crop rotation are definitely things to include.
Has Sunbird's Invocation done a lot for you?
The card has been insane every time I have played it. I don't see it being cut, at least until I update the deck and give it a whirl.
I'm surprised Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist is on the chopping block for you. I've always found it to be super solid. Her + ability when she flips is awesome.
I love the card... but there is a weird tension where I want to pick up and replay Nykthos over and over again, so hitting 7 lands is not a given. As a creature Nissa is underpowered.
Rampaging Baloths has always been super solid for me to really get aggressive.
I just want to go bigger, you know? Maybe with Exploration effects I should take another look at landfall creatures, but as is I just don't think I need them.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

If you play any one single landfall guy the order of precedence should probably be:

1. Titania, Protector of Argoth - cheap, good etb, not quite as explosive for not being actual landfall but gets the job done with fetches
2. Omnath, Locus of Rage - explosive plus allows retribution for board wipes. finished a LOT of games due to that.
3. Scute Swarm
4. Tireless Tracker

I literally always wind up cutting Rampaging Baloths because it's like 5th or 6th down the list :P

Scute Swarm is actually the "best" but you're looking to make use of big mana so trying to keep the bomb count high is probably right.

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
If you play any one single landfall guy the order of precedence should probably be:

1. Titania, Protector of Argoth - cheap, good etb, not quite as explosive for not being actual landfall but gets the job done with fetches
2. Omnath, Locus of Rage - explosive plus allows retribution for board wipes. finished a LOT of games due to that.
3. Scute Swarm
4. Tireless Tracker

I literally always wind up cutting Rampaging Baloths because it's like 5th or 6th down the list :P

Scute Swarm is actually the "best" but you're looking to make use of big mana so trying to keep the bomb count high is probably right.
Surprised not to see Avenger of Zendikar on this list.
I think of these options Omnath would fit the deck best (you're right, need the big threats with all this mana).
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
Surprised not to see Avenger of Zendikar on this list.
I think of these options Omnath would fit the deck best (you're right, need the big threats with all this mana).
He's after tracker and swarm before baloths for me. I like him but he's usually a big fat target.

I think I do play him in my Maelstrom Wanderer build but I'd cut him for Scute Swarm if I ever remembered :P MW does change the calculus though too since he gives the bros haste intrinsically.

Avenger also suffers in your build from being constrained to land count on entry # of bros.

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Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

Oh, I totally missed that you are not running Horn of Greed. While it is symmetrical, you will be taking advantage of it far more than your opponents most of the time. This can quickly fill your hand when you are dropping multiple lands a turn.

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Changes made - I am still missing cards but this was what I was able to do from my collection.

Removed:
Haunted Fengraf
Game Trail
Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Vivien Reid
Zendikar Resurgent
Warstorm Surge
Gruul Ragebeast
Regal Behemoth
Steel Hellkite
Qasali Slingers
Ulvenwald Hydra
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Ulvenwald Tracker
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf

Added:
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills
Horn of Greed
Exploration
Beast Within
Ramunap Excavator
Lotus Cobra
Crop Rotation
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Thrashing Brontodon
Return of the Wildspeaker
Sylvan Caryatid
Rampant Growth
Nature's Lore
Scavenging Ooze
Life from the Loam
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I think omitting cradle is not a great move. It's a good backup to nykthos as another multimana land. I also wouldn't recommend selling it either; it's probaly not done gaining value. Could be a $2000 rectangle sooner than you think.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I think omitting cradle is not a great move. It's a good backup to nykthos as another multimana land. I also wouldn't recommend selling it either; it's probaly not done gaining value. Could be a $2000 rectangle sooner than you think.
I sold it yesterday.
The fact is that I made a ton of money selling RL cards and that is money I can use considering I have a newborn and still have renovations to do to my house. I kept a few cards (survival of the fittest I think is the most expensive), but sold a lot of stuff.
And while it is possible the price will go up a lot more, it is not a guarantee. Prices went up a lot from the pandemic and are starting to come down. I would have made more money in April!
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 years ago
I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I think omitting cradle is not a great move. It's a good backup to nykthos as another multimana land. I also wouldn't recommend selling it either; it's probaly not done gaining value. Could be a $2000 rectangle sooner than you think.
I sold it yesterday.
The fact is that I made a ton of money selling RL cards and that is money I can use considering I have a newborn and still have renovations to do to my house. I kept a few cards (survival of the fittest I think is the most expensive), but sold a lot of stuff.
And while it is possible the price will go up a lot more, it is not a guarantee. Prices went up a lot from the pandemic and are starting to come down. I would have made more money in April!
Fair enough. Good life choices > cardboard value, always.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

updated


+ magus of the candelabra, scavenger grounds, mossfire valley, ley weaver, hope tender, oracle of mul daya, azuza, strip mine, bloodstained mire
- devoted druid, marwyn, mwonvuli beast tracker, gruul signet, rugged highlands, terramorphic expanse, shamanic revelation, evolving wilds, raging ravine
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Okay, I opened some precons that had been sitting around and found the following cards:
Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth - great with all the untapping I have. I don't know if either is better than Fertile ground. I don't have that many forests for sprawl. Thoughts?
Manascape Refractor basically a mana rock that acts like a second Nykthos. Can also duplicate opponents better lands. Is it better than Rampant Growth?
Temple Altisaur was suggested to replace Thorn Mammoth. Would yall agree with this?

I also have a friend who is giving me a nice Gaea's Cradle Proxy, so will put that back in (since I sold mine to pay for diapers apparently).
Planning on picking up Ashaya, Soul of the Wild very shortly (Black friday shopping). I figure the risk is mitigated by Mina and Denn's ability to bounce Ashaya, while the multiple infinite combos make it very worthwhile. I guess it also makes my creatures into forests for Utopia Sprawl (JK that's not a reason to play this).
Still wonder sometimes if I should play Craterhoof Behemoth over Omnath. I just hate the hoof.
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Post by weltkrieg » 2 years ago

In no way shape or form would I remove thorn mammoth for the other suggestions. In this deck and almost any others, they are considerably inferior to thorn mammoth. Considering your commander, it gets easy to understand if I mention Dryad Arbor . If you need to, that's repeated removal at your choice and for playing lands...something you're already trying to do.

If you want another fight enabler, then maybe Gruul Ragebeast is an option. You are trying to make bigger tokens instead of lots of little ones after all.

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

weltkrieg wrote:
2 years ago
In no way shape or form would I remove thorn mammoth for the other suggestions. In this deck and almost any others, they are considerably inferior to thorn mammoth. Considering your commander, it gets easy to understand if I mention Dryad Arbor . If you need to, that's repeated removal at your choice and for playing lands...something you're already trying to do.

If you want another fight enabler, then maybe Gruul Ragebeast is an option. You are trying to make bigger tokens instead of lots of little ones after all.
Oh Damn that is a perfect use of Dryad Arbor.
I have one in another deck.. Damn, I will really need to make that switch.

Any ideas on the other 3 cards I was considering?
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Post by weltkrieg » 2 years ago

There are some definite things I would consider in this deck that you're not already doing.

Enchantment land ramp is a good idea with land untappers. In that case, I would -llanowar elves, -fyndhorn elves, +utopia sprawl, +wild growth.

Your land untappers are an eclectic mess. Why magus of the candelabra or hope tender? They really aren't that good unless the land produces more than 3 mana or you are using them on lands that produce 3 or more mana. Yes, I do understand that the point is to get nykthos and go nuts, but that won't always happen. I use magus of the candelabra in my sasaya, orochi ascendant deck. In there it is obscene, but I would not use it in a deck that only aims for at most one mana doubler on the battlefield. Since this is edh and apparently not a CEDH deck, I would run slightly more expensive but generally better land untappers. In this case, I refer specifically to Krosan Restorer and Argothian Elder . They cost no mana to activate and have other applications.

By other applications, I mean I see stone seeder hierophant and ley weaver already in your list.

1. With Ley Weaver /Argothian Elder /Krosan Restorer w/thresh hold: You can attack with the multi land untapper, use Maze of Ith on the multi land untapper to untap it, then untap maze of ith+a mana production land for infinite mana during combat. Mana sink of some form should do the trick.

With Stone-Seeder Hierophant , it can get a little nuts with cards like Terrain Generator or Thawing Glaciers .

2. With Stone-Seeder Hierophant and Thawing Glaciers , it's as many basics in your deck as you have mana available straight onto the battlefield. Add in Amulet of Vigor and it becomes every basic in your deck onto the battlefield guaranteed.

3. With Stone-Seeder Hierophant and Terrain Generator , you barf all of the basics in your hand onto the battlefield in short order.

Considering what you're trying to do, I think Manascape Refractor is a good idea. I wouldn't remove a good cmc 2 ramper for it, though. Maybe selvala, heart of the wilds instead? She isn't doing much unless you've already got a huge creature on the battlefield and therefore already likely winning.

There are many other tricks you could consider, but these are certainly a few of my favorites.

Query: Why so many non basics? Some of them seem a bit suspect for what you state you want to do. For example, if you want to run fetchlands, then why not run Crucible of Worlds or Ancient Greenwarden for additional redundancy with the Ramunap Excavator .

The cycling lands make sense with life from the loam (and ways to discard lands for effects), but you're really not built for that synergy otherwise. I could go on, but I think more basics and a few special targeted non basics is a better way to go.

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

weltkrieg wrote:
2 years ago
There are some definite things I would consider in this deck that you're not already doing.
Really appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
Enchantment land ramp is a good idea with land untappers. In that case, I would -llanowar elves, -fyndhorn elves, +utopia sprawl, +wild growth.
I think this is a good suggestion. How do you feel about Sylvan Caryatid vs. 1 mana elf?
Your land untappers are an eclectic mess. Why magus of the candelabra or hope tender? They really aren't that good unless the land produces more than 3 mana or you are using them on lands that produce 3 or more mana. Yes, I do understand that the point is to get nykthos and go nuts, but that won't always happen. I use magus of the candelabra in my sasaya, orochi ascendant deck. In there it is obscene, but I would not use it in a deck that only aims for at most one mana doubler on the battlefield. Since this is edh and apparently not a CEDH deck, I would run slightly more expensive but generally better land untappers. In this case, I refer specifically to Krosan Restorer and Argothian Elder . They cost no mana to activate and have other applications.
I have the two you suggested, but found I had too many of these effects. In the end, I decided to go with the ones that were best with Nykthos and Ashaya, Soul of the Wild (not in my list because I didn't buy it yet). Maybe Hope Tender should be switched with Argothonian Elder, but I just wanted to try the ones with the lower mana cost. Also want to add Kogla, the Titan Ape, which with haste enabler and Nykthos, can make infinite man with the human untappers.
By other applications, I mean I see stone seeder hierophant and ley weaver already in your list.

1. With Ley Weaver /Argothian Elder /Krosan Restorer w/thresh hold: You can attack with the multi land untapper, use Maze of Ith on the multi land untapper to untap it, then untap maze of ith+a mana production land for infinite mana during combat. Mana sink of some form should do the trick.
. I don't have much use for infinite mana during combat. Polukranos is the only interesting mana sink I would have and I don't think it's great. I am aware of the combo though and will keep it on my radar.
With Stone-Seeder Hierophant , it can get a little nuts with cards like Terrain Generator or Thawing Glaciers .
SSH is already amazing in my deck with my general - replaying nykthos over and over again and getting multiple activations will end the game. I am not looking to run enough basics for these other options. The fact is that I have a lot of land tutors and prefer to have the options of using my lands as a toolbox.
2. With Stone-Seeder Hierophant and Thawing Glaciers , it's as many basics in your deck as you have mana available straight onto the battlefield. Add in Amulet of Vigor and it becomes every basic in your deck onto the battlefield guaranteed.
3. With Stone-Seeder Hierophant and Terrain Generator , you barf all of the basics in your hand onto the battlefield in short order.
I don't want Amulet as it has no synergy with my deck. It's a good combo but not really what I am after. I have no way to tutor Amulet and I don't want the dead draw when I don't have the other pieces of the combo.

Considering what you're trying to do, I think Manascape Refractor is a good idea. I wouldn't remove a good cmc 2 ramper for it, though. Maybe selvala, heart of the wilds instead? She isn't doing much unless you've already got a huge creature on the battlefield and therefore already likely winning.
. Selvala draws cards though. Gets me 3 mana with my general. I think it's good enough. The card draw is important especially when I get Ashaya in here.
There are many other tricks you could consider, but these are certainly a few of my favorites.
Appreciate the conversation.
Query: Why so many non basics? Some of them seem a bit suspect for what you state you want to do. For example, if you want to run fetchlands, then why not run Crucible of Worlds or Ancient Greenwarden for additional redundancy with the Ramunap Excavator .
. Ancient Greenwarden I will try out eventually. I don't have it yet (and I don't have the MDFCs either) because I haven't ordered the cards yet. I was hoping to draft my box of Zendikar Rising first. When I add more fetches I will play up the graveyard recursion for sure.
So many non-basics so I have good targets for my land tutors after I get Nykthos out. Are there any you find particularly weak? I looked through it and could consider cutting Path of Ancestry but I don't see anything else really.
The cycling lands make sense with life from the loam (and ways to discard lands for effects), but you're really not built for that synergy otherwise. I could go on, but I think more basics and a few special targeted non basics is a better way to go.
cycling lands are great with my general to get some late game card draw. That's the other synergy.
I am making 40-200 mana in the late game regularly, so translating lands into extra late game raw is just great.

Really appreciate your insights.

Let me know your thoughts on Caryatid vs Elf! Might change up the untappers a bit.
I think Augur of Autumn will replace Vizier of the Menagerie and Outland Liberator // Frenzied Trapbreaker will replace Thrashing Brontodon.

With the recent rotation I will be making a black friday order for a few missing cards for this deck: Ashaya, MDFCs, Kogla, the Titan Ape (combo with human untappers + Urabrask the Hidden), Fabled Passage. Maybe more.
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

You absolutely have enough basics for Thawing Glaciers to be insanely good. 100% include in a deck that untaps lands--it's not exactly another copy of nykthos but ramping out all your basics is very powerful.

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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
You absolutely have enough basics for Thawing Glaciers to be insanely good. 100% include in a deck that untaps lands--it's not exactly another copy of nykthos but ramping out all your basics is very powerful.
I suppose. Was hoping to avoid that price tag. Maybe I can find a MP version or something.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
I suppose. Was hoping to avoid that price tag. Maybe I can find a MP version or something.
iirc the gold bordered one is peanuts, get one for $6 or so if no one cares :)

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Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Did not realize I already had a spare Dryad Arbor - in any case, took out of my Karador, Ghost chieftain deck (that I hardly play anyway) with GSZ. Now have GSZ and Dryad Arbor in this deck. I think they are great additions, thanks! Cut Path of Ancestry and Vizier of the Menagerie.

I swapped out Elvish Mystic, Llanowar elves and sylvan caryatid for Utopia Sprawl, wild growth and Manascape Refractor.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

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