Kaalia of the Vast, Reanimator

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Dumoko
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Post by Dumoko » 2 years ago

I've put my hands on Kaalia back in winter 2019, the precon variant.
Since then, I've walked a long road to the variant that I'm using right now.

What can be better than resolving strong card effects?
Resolving strong card effects that leave after them big solid flying bodies on the battlefield hitting hard the opponents.

"But where is the Stax version? It's more powerful by definition!" you might ask.
Well. I tried playing the Stax version with these cards: In our community, we are more sensitive to salty cards, and I was getting too much attention.
Also(actually, the main reason), I didn't enjoy playing the "limiting others" playstyle. Not at that scale, at least.
Though I still think that I need to find a place for Drannith Magistrate in this deck as well ;) It's a bit more fun that a straightforward disablers as Archon of Emeria, stony silence, Grafdigger's Cage , etc.
So a small splash of general stax is ok vs stax oriented decklist.
Kaalia Reanimator

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Disclaimer
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Money is a factor I must consider.
I don't wanna buy stuff that costs order of magnitudes more money if the actual effect is just a minor improvement of what I currently have.
At the same time, I'm doing significant investments to bring my deck to a solid power level.
The current decklist costs around $800.

And it was built with the following considerations in mind:

Points of focus
Graveyard interaction
Keeping life total at a decent level!
Asymmetric removal

Meta:
Non-competitive
Longer games
Indestructible is a big thing
Aggro
Combo decks
Decks with costs >$1000-1500
Cards I'm not playing
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Avacyn, Angel of Hope - will never get into my decklist. The amount of salt and imba it provides is absurd.
Smothering Tithe - will never get into my decklist. Pure mana generator, at an absurd scale. Boring and imba.



Teferi's Protection - extremely powerful protection card, would work perfectly for surviving another turn with Kaalia. Not included because of a very high price.
Talisman of Indulgence - While I have two talismans in the deck, you might wonder where is the third one, and that it should definitely replace a card like Coldsteel heart. And you are absolutely right. The edge over it is so insignificant that I cannot let myself spend $8 dollars on it.
Anguished Unmaking - fantastic flavorful powerful card. But I already have quite powerful removal spells. The edge over what I have is so insignificant that I cannot let myself spend $10 dollars on it.
Staple tutors - too expensive. And I don't want to play too many tutors in the deck, as tutoring is the first step towards competitiveness.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - same as above... Not really interested in adding more tutors.

Brisela, Voice of Nightmares - by not willing to play many tutors, the science behind probability reduces to zero the chances to get it by drawing cards and keeping one of the pieces alive while waiting for the second one.
Bruna, the Fading Light - despite fitting the deck with a reanimator effect, it's too focused on reanimating angels, and otherwise is not worth a slot. And since this deck runs a very small
Gisela, the Broken Blade - despite fitting the deck with lifelink, it's quite expensive for what the card does alone.

Fetch lands - They are crazily expensive and don't give straightforward obvious value. Waiting for price drops to get some.
Silent Clearing, Sunbaked Canyon - Pain lands with some draw potential. Looks useful, not sure I want to spend $10-20 considering that my mana base is already very solid. I haven't had issues in a VERY long time. The card draw, though...
Pathway lands - not sure I need them.

Fiery Emancipation - should look terrific when entering the battlefield just before the combat starts! I really want to try it out! But $20 is $20.
Serra's Emissary - super hyped about it. In my meta, and without focus on stacks, getting plainly killed is the biggest Kaalia's problem. This card solves it entirely. Will get it ASAP.
Kaalia targets
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Angel of Despair - permanent removal. Difficult to hard cast. Works well with Lyra Dawnbringer
Angel of Serenity - Both a "reanimator" and a removal. Difficult to hard cast. Helps my creatures swing past unwanted blocks/effects. Works well with Lyra Dawnbringer
Angelic Arbiter - Fantastic stax card. If pulled in the early game - nobody will touch you, since the key is building up the board. Difficult to hard cast. Works well with Lyra Dawnbringer. Affects only opponents!
Archfiend of Depravity - Fantastic card versus decks that rely on massing creatures. Being capped at 2 is quite a pain and saving grace against being overrun and helps to keep the board clean. Affects only opponents!
Archfiend of Despair - absolute madman. Erebos, God of the Dead, Wound Reflection, and a big flying 6/6 in one body. Was happy to get it when it cost $16.
Aurelia, the Warleader - What can be better than triggering Kaalia once? Triggering Kaalia twice. The only creature that is better when hard cast. Synergizez super well with cards like Kaalia of the Vast (duh), Lord of the Void, Balefire Dragon, Utvara Hellkite (!!!).
Balefire Dragon - the bane of decks that run mass creatures. Keeps the board clean and tidy, repeatedly.
Burning-Rune Demon - fresh addition. A simple version of gifts. Make the opponent suffer from choosing between Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Archfiend of Depravity or whatever. And since this deck interacts with the graveyard - it's just a matter of time before the discarded card gets back to the battlefield.
Doom Whisperer - provides so needed useful topdecks. We're in Mardu. Whatever helps/draws us card - is very valuable. Also fills in the graveyard. Can be synergized super well with Reanimator effects.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - absolute madlady. Protects our face and our permanents, increases the damage our opponents are getting. Motivates opponents to go for each other.
Harvester of Souls - The only non-flying Kaalia target. Constantly provides cards. And boy, if somebody wraths...
Hellkite Tyrant - There is no game when opponents wouldn't have some tasty artifacts waiting to be stolen. Sadly, I don't have "Win with his alternate win condition" achievement (yet).
Karmic Guide - very neat reanimator card, basically for free.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder - triggers on permanents getting to graveyard. Must be used carefully - there is no "may" in the draw effect, so the damage might accumulate.
Liesa, Shroud of Dusk - I still don't understand why it is such a cheap card moneywise. Lifelink, staxes casting decks (which Kaalia is on easy end), flies, and hits hard. What else to be desired?
Lord of the Void - the lack of trample has made me have it removed several times from the decklist. Still a solid card, so it's back and ready to provide some free value.
Lyra Dawnbringer - There are enough angels in the deck to make Lyra even more profitable.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled - Such a great punisher. Affects only opponents! Huge growth potential.
Resolute Archangel - You cannot win if you die. Kaalia doesn't scale well in longer games. Being hated, maintaining life total becomes a top priority, justifying a separate card slot. Usually provides +30 life. The best thing to topdeck or tutor when having a near-death experience. Quite worthy, if you ask me.
Rune-Scarred Demon - My philosophy doesn't resonate with tutors, but hey, this tutor flies and hits hard. A non-competitive amount of tutors is fine.
Scourge of Kher Ridges - for some reason wasn't included for a long time. Absolute madman! Such a powerful asymmetric wrath effect. Keeps some decks absolutely disabled.
Sephara, Sky's Blade - Absolute madgirl. Helps with lifegain. Protects the board, and thanks to limited wording, is cheap moneywise. But for Kaalia - basically an Avacyn.
Sower of Discord - A key card for helping Kaalia bring down opponents. Crazy synergy with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Archfiend of Despair.
Terror of the Peaks - a card that helps win games. Synergizes super well with Utvara Hellkite. Easy to hard cast, hard to get rid of.
Utvara Hellkite - not many dragons in the decklist, but he is totally ok hoarding dragons on its own. Having other dragons just makes things worse for the opponents.
Vilis, Broker of Blood - thanks to Kaalia, his crazy CMC can be ignored, and his value is absolutely crazy. Basically, hold a removal ability that draws your card. Also super fat. What else can you ask for??
Cards that help maintaining the life total at a healthy level
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Liesa, Shroud of Dusk
Lyra Dawnbringer
Resolute Archangel
Sephara, Sky's Blade
Akroma's Will
Disciple of Bolas - yep, eating a 6-8 CMC monster also greatly benefits the life total.
Whip of Erebos
True Conviction - Putting this in the pre-combat main phase while having at least a basic board presence might be totally game-changing.
Land base
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All shock lands - check.
All filter lands - check.
All check lands - check.
All battlebond lands - check.
All pain lands - check.
A healthy amount of golden lands - check.

Vault of the Archangel - having life total as one of the biggest concerns, lifelinking 20 life is often more important than casting a spell.
Ancient Ziggurat - mana fixing. Sometimes bites me in the butt when I'm trying to cast non-creature expensive spells, which are enough in this deck.
Canyon Slough - it's here because of cycling and also having land types.
Hanweir Battlements - for haste
Castle Locthwain - card draw
Basics are waiting to be replaced by other cards that I might be buying.
Card advantage
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Vilis, Broker of Blood
Doom Whisperer
Harvester of Souls
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

Burning-Rune Demon
Rune-Scarred Demon
Diabolic Tutor

Disciple of Bolas - two advantages against Morbid Curiosity: looks at power and not CMC, which allows to consume tokens, and also provides life.
Necropotence - I was lucky to get it when it was $13.

The main goal with these is to increase the number of drawn cards per deck slot:
Painful Truths - with the current mana base it's just always 3 for 3.
Syphon Mind - in our community we play in pods of 4. So it's a 3 for 4.
Ambition's Cost - Another 3 for 4.

Castle Locthwain - a better swamp. Never used it. Waits for the moment when it will save my life.
Tutors
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I keep the number of tutors low in the deck, to use them in a reactive manner depending on what I need the most.

Burning-Rune Demon
Rune-Scarred Demon
Diabolic Tutor - definitely not the most efficient tutor, but others are too expensive.
Considering to remove
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Ancient Ziggurat - sometimes bites
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder - painful uncontrollable draw engine
Angelic Arbiter - meta shifted, feel lees profit



WIP:
Reanimation
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Removal
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Board protection
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Last edited by Dumoko 2 years ago, edited 6 times in total.

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

@Dumoko
I think this is a SOLID starting list for the meta that you've described. My initial reactions were to add more Stax effects, but I realized that would probably ruin your reputation and have people gunning for you at the start of the game, lol.

Ok, so the first thing that stands out to me is your Card Advantage package. I'd like to see it more in the 8-10 count personally. Some cards you could consider for your list:
  • Night's Whisper - a simple draw spell that helps dig you a little deeper, nothing flashy (I think it's been reprinted enough times that it should be pretty easy to acquire).
  • Morbid Curiosity - a great way to refuel your hand with the high CMC cards that Kaalia plays. Very cheap to acquire and should be pretty good for you based on how I think your meta plays out.
  • Kaalia, Zenith Seeker - a decent way to dig out some more Kaalia targets from your list, she's a good blocker too with that Vigilance.
  • Demonlord Belzenlok - while it's a bit of a gamble, I could see this Demon drawing you an average of 3-4 cards every time he ETB. He also has sweet art and a great price tag so you should be ok to get a copy if you want to try it out.
  • Bloodgift Demon - it's not flashy, but a Kaalia-able Phyrexian Arena isn't bad.
I think the above suggestions would be easy for you to acquire while still being palatable for your playgroup and keeping you recharged throughout the course of a game. You could take out Fervor (debatable, since you don't run tutors to get redundancy of effects) and/or Sower of Discord. It didn't get nearly as much mileage as I had hoped when I tested it out, but feel free to take any/all/none of my suggestions! Either way, it's a great start and I think you'll do very well with the list!

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Dumoko
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Post by Dumoko » 2 years ago

@benjameenbear
Never thought I would say this, but welcome to my thread! :D

Thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback, I really appreciate it!

Let's go in order.

Stax
I actually tried to play stax, and I did buy quite a bit of cards!
My Stax version of Kaalia included the following: Even with some of those, I felt that I'm keeping the board in a grip and wasn't letting people play.
This indeed brought too much attention, but to be completely honest, I just didn't enjoy playing this kind of style...
And came back to a more straightforward, though obviously more vulnerable, Reanimator version of Kaalia.

I still run cards like Grand Abolisher, to protect myself, and not taunting other players.

Btw, I actually play Drannith Magistrate in my Liesa deck, and I should also confess that I enjoy a lot the feeling of not letting people play their commander :D Or all the "cast from exile" cards fizzle. Tremendous card. Maybe I will actually add it to Kaalia too :D

Card advantage
I've updated the card advantage section: Does 8-10 refer to non-creature spells, or in general to everything?

From the cards you've listed:
Morbid Curiosity, Demonlord Belzenlok, Bloodgift Demon - were a part of the deck, and I removed them for some reason at a given point in time.

I was happy with how Belzenlok was performing, I think I replaced it with some of the newer fancy cards like Liesa, Sephara, or Vilis.
But it seems I need to find a place for him again.

Next, I really want to ask you your opinion on the next thoughts:
1. Bloodgift Demon/Phyrexian Arena - in your competitive environment, how these can be justifiend considering that they don't probide immediate card advantage, and actually require the game to last much longer to start getting any dividends? I felt it myself - it goes out... And nothing happens. Not a top deck that I would be happy about, because i need to wait for a whole rotation to get one exta card. Whad do you think?

2. Two for two black card draws - I see that you run basically all existing copies out there in your deck. I do see how low CMC is crucial in competitive games as any extra mana can decide the game.
But in longer, more casual games, I though that one deck slot should provide as much value as possible, and this way, a bigger CMC that would just draw more cards. So maybe instead of Night's Whisper, there might be something else? Or am I being too greedy?

Cards to be replaced
Could you please explain what does it mean "to run tutors to get redundancy of effects"?

The fact that you pointed Sower of Discord as a candidate to be replaced makes sense. It seems to be that my number of Kaalia targets is rather high, so I might be replacing some of them with card drawal.

And Fervor too... On one hand, card advantage is important, but on the other, my goal to have haste in the deck is turn 15 when i have 10 mana and i need desperately Kaalia to swing with something big into someone's face...
I actually got a Swiftfoot boots copy, it seems a bit better than Fervor... Or actually card advantage..

Tough choices, tough choices, but who said deckbuilding is easy? :D

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

It's gotten pricey, but I REALLY like Knollspine Dragon.

I would suggest that you take a look at my Kaalia list in sig. Zenith Seeker attracts less salt than OG Kaalia. She also provides card advantage. The build is focused more on blink and recursion.
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

Dumoko wrote:
2 years ago
@benjameenbear
Never thought I would say this, but welcome to my thread! :D

Thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback, I really appreciate it!

Let's go in order.
SPOILER
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Stax
I actually tried to play stax, and I did buy quite a bit of cards!
My Stax version of Kaalia included the following: Even with some of those, I felt that I'm keeping the board in a grip and wasn't letting people play.
This indeed brought too much attention, but to be completely honest, I just didn't enjoy playing this kind of style...
And came back to a more straightforward, though obviously more vulnerable, Reanimator version of Kaalia.

I still run cards like Grand Abolisher, to protect myself, and not taunting other players.

Btw, I actually play Drannith Magistrate in my Liesa deck, and I should also confess that I enjoy a lot the feeling of not letting people play their commander :D Or all the "cast from exile" cards fizzle. Tremendous card. Maybe I will actually add it to Kaalia too :D

Card advantage
I've updated the card advantage section: Does 8-10 refer to non-creature spells, or in general to everything?

From the cards you've listed:
Morbid Curiosity, Demonlord Belzenlok, Bloodgift Demon - were a part of the deck, and I removed them for some reason at a given point in time.

I was happy with how Belzenlok was performing, I think I replaced it with some of the newer fancy cards like Liesa, Sephara, or Vilis.
But it seems I need to find a place for him again.

Next, I really want to ask you your opinion on the next thoughts:
1. Bloodgift Demon/Phyrexian Arena - in your competitive environment, how these can be justifiend considering that they don't probide immediate card advantage, and actually require the game to last much longer to start getting any dividends? I felt it myself - it goes out... And nothing happens. Not a top deck that I would be happy about, because i need to wait for a whole rotation to get one exta card. Whad do you think?

2. Two for two black card draws - I see that you run basically all existing copies out there in your deck. I do see how low CMC is crucial in competitive games as any extra mana can decide the game.
But in longer, more casual games, I though that one deck slot should provide as much value as possible, and this way, a bigger CMC that would just draw more cards. So maybe instead of Night's Whisper, there might be something else? Or am I being too greedy?

Cards to be replaced
Could you please explain what does it mean "to run tutors to get redundancy of effects"?

The fact that you pointed Sower of Discord as a candidate to be replaced makes sense. It seems to be that my number of Kaalia targets is rather high, so I might be replacing some of them with card drawal.

And Fervor too... On one hand, card advantage is important, but on the other, my goal to have haste in the deck is turn 15 when i have 10 mana and i need desperately Kaalia to swing with something big into someone's face...
I actually got a Swiftfoot boots copy, it seems a bit better than Fervor... Or actually card advantage..

Tough choices, tough choices, but who said deckbuilding is easy? :D
Well, I'm glad that you gave the Stax strategy a fair shake. It's ridiculously powerful, but creates more feel-bads than other strategies (for obvious reasons). I still prefer it, but that's because everyone knows that the Kaalia list I/my wife rolls with is themed that way, so they pull out decks accordingly and it's a non-issue.

I think that Drannith Magistrate is a totally fair card because it prevents a lot of 'yard shenanigans while also incidentally shutting off annoying Commanders. But I have a different thought process about Stax strategies as is, so I'm cool with what the Magistrate does.

In regards to the # of Card Advantage spells, I think 8-10 in total is acceptable. However you spread that out (between non-creature and creatures) depends on your preferences, your meta, and your budget.

So to answer your question about Phyrexian Arena/Bloodgift Demon as viable sources of card advantage (even though they're quite slow, as you correctly pointed out) is because, for my list, all of the Stax pieces buy me time. Arena and Bloodgift are actually powerful cards when you're taking more than 3 turns with them in play. Stax pieces allow this to happen more frequently because it slows down or outright inhibits what my opponents are able to do. This translates into more turns over the course of a game. So, for my own specific decklist, these card advantage sources are effective because Stax pieces draw out the game, as you correctly identified.

I like the 2 CMC draw cards for the mana efficiency as you correctly deduced. For your playgroup, big-shot effects like Morbid Curiosity or Demonlord Belzenlok might be more effective for your list as sources of powerful card advantage.

So, to explain the "tutors create redundancy" comment, what I mean is that in EDH you can only run singletons of your cards. By the very nature of this format, you're only able to see a specific card only a certain percentage of time. The reason Tutors are critical to the success of strategies is because it allows you to have more cards in your deck that allow you to find a specific card effect more consistently. Tutors allow you to increase the statistics of finding a specific card and using it more frequently over the course of a game. So, instead of depending on variance and top-decking an answer or a combo piece, you can tutor out a card to completely circumvent the variance that EDH imposes. Does that make sense?

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