Mairsil, the +5 Bloodthirsty Demonspine Everflame Emissary's Dragon Fang Vorpal Sword of Xanthrid's Evos Isle

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Moonlighter
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Post by Moonlighter » 2 years ago

This is the bare skeleton of an idea that has haunted me for a few years, and I'm looking for some help. I've been talking with @materpillar about it, but it's been sitting in the 'odd, but not great' category. Then Vorpal Sword came out, and it just had to happen.

The goal of this deck is to turn Mairsil into an attachment (as an aura, which allows him to use equipment abilities) via Licid caging, and cause mayhem by sticking him to other people's creatures. Unfortunately, people are likely to say "This is a Mairsil deck I am going to kill you first." I think the only thing we can do on that front is lose to a playgroup a few times to let them know that we mean a different kind of business.
301.5a The creature an Equipment is attached to is called the "equipped creature." The Equipment
is attached to, or "equips," that creature.

303.4b The object or player an Aura is attached to is called enchanted. The Aura is attached to, or
"enchants," that object or player
The deck has design rules - anything in the deck needs to be related to the theme of turning Mairsil into an attachment, and then making him useful as one. This deck contains only 3 non-licid creatures, and all the artifacts need to be equipment or things that copy equipment (ie - Mirage Mirror). In sum, we don't want anything that will scare anyone off. I'm figuring a few transmute cards might be useful to get some of the pieces we need to get this thing rolling. I'm trying to figure out how to do this in a way that is going to make people confused enough that we can abuse odd rules and pull a victory out of somewhere.

Mairsil but He's an Attachment

Commander

Wincon

Protect the Mark

Protect Mairsil

Approximate Total Cost:

So for the early game, we cast licids and selectively attach them to our opponents' creatures. We're going to lose some, and that's fine, we only need a few. We cast Mairsil and cage a licid. This lets us attach Mairsil to another creature, and lets him be pretty slippery. To get more cages, we bounce Mairsil with Riptide Laboratory, or the copy creature instants, or, if we have enough mana, Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang. Tatsumasa also grants us boardwipe survival because the demon will bring Mairsil back when it dies, which then means we get another cage. It's probably not super useful to do in other situations.

Step one is to cage something useful, such as Mirage Mirror and at least one licid. Then we attach to our foes creatures. Then we put Worldslayer down, and let them know that you'll turn Mairsil into that on their attacking creature if they don't do what you want. Back up this threat with counterspells. Or drop a Spy Kit with Eradicate in hand or, god forbid, enough mana to cast Dichotomancy while their creature is tapped. In either case, Magnetic Theft can serve as an alternative to Mairsil himself if you need to pull off either of these stupid tricks.

Win with Vorpal Sword or invert the gains we provide by pumping their creature and then slap them with a Backlash.

So what I'm looking for are other cards that Mairsil can utilize to be a bizarre attachment. I would like to aim at making this deck as functional as is possible - the goal is to do so without Mairsil staples, or things that would be to scary, or, if possible, any more creatures whatsoever. Also the mana base being crap is a reflection of cards I own.

I am not nearly so skilled a deckbuilder as you all, and I look forward to your thoughts. Balance of removal and counterspells? Do all the tutors sub for draw or should this have more Ponder? Pls help.
Last edited by Moonlighter 2 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

as an aura, which allows him to use equipment abilities
Is that confirmed true? I'll just poke one of our resident rules gurus @WizardMN for my own peace of mind.

Also I'm confused with how Spy Kit will exactly work? Mairsil just gets the activated abilities of cards, so if you "cage" equipment you won't get all the text of the card, just what are activated abilities on the card.
Otherwise are you saying that you are looking to equip Mairsil with Spy Kit and then use a Licid ability to enchant a creature and hoping that the Spy Kit text will be "attached" to the aura?
As soon as Mairsil stops becoming a creature, equipment becomes unattached to him anyway.

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Post by Moonlighter » 2 years ago

Spy kit can be copied when Mairsil, the Pretender is attached to a creature via Mirage Mirror. It has to be on the battlefield, though. Same with Worldslayer. Rules sections 301.5a and 303.4b highlight that the enchanted creature or the equipped creature are only referring to the creature the permanent is attached to, and are therefore interchangeable. We asked the Rules Squad a while back.
Last edited by Moonlighter 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
as an aura, which allows him to use equipment abilities
Is that confirmed true? I'll just poke one of our resident rules gurus @WizardMN for my own peace of mind.
Yeah here is the thread on it.
Also I'm confused with how Spy Kit will exactly work? Mairsil just gets the activated abilities of cards, so if you "cage" equipment you won't get all the text of the card, just what are activated abilities on the card.
Otherwise are you saying that you are looking to equip Mairsil with Spy Kit and then use a Licid ability to enchant a creature and hoping that the Spy Kit text will be "attached" to the aura?
As soon as Mairsil stops becoming a creature, equipment becomes unattached to him anyway.
Moonlighter provided more context but it seems that the idea is that Mirror is caged and then the Licid ability is activated to put Mairsil onto a creature. From there, it is about copying things on the battlefield, not necessarily trying to use Spy Kit and Worldslayer as caged permanents.

@Moonlighter
One thing I realized that was never clarified in the rules discussion above was about Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang. In order for that ability to work to protect Mairsil the way you want, you need to leave Mairsil in Exile. If you move him to the Command Zone, he won't return, but leaving him in exile leaves him exceptionally vulnerable since players can Stifle the return trigger or just bounce or exile the token and Mairsil will be stuck.
Last edited by WizardMN 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Moonlighter » 2 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
2 years ago
@Moonlighter
One thing I realized that was never clarified in the rules discussion above was about Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang. In order for that ability to work to protect Mairsil the way you want, you need to leave Mairsil in Exile. If you move him to the Command Zone, he won't return, but leaving him in exile leaves him exceptionally vulnerable since players can Stifle the return trigger or just bounce or exile the token and Mairsil will be stuck.
Oho, well... it's for those who like to live dangerously, then! No one in my playgroup has even heard of Stifle, but it's not something I feel is sound to leave in.

Took it out in place of Ghostly Flicker, which I have just remembered is a decent way to get an extra cage.

EDIT: Just so we're clear, I think I'd be willing to change a lot of broad directions of this deck, so long as it keeps the prime notion of use of Mairsil as an attachment.
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Post by JovialJovian » 2 years ago

This deck is so audacious, I love it.

May I suggest Fabricate for your artifact-tutoring needs.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Some creatures like Olivia's Bloodsworn might be worth it to give Mairsil, the Pretender a way to have haste easily since all the licid's require tapping.


@WizardMN

If Mairsil, the Pretender has One with the Stars on him, can he use Bloodthirsty Blade's ability to equip himself to an opposing creature? I don't know the nuanced difference between an "aura enchantment" and a plain old "enchantment".

Also, how does summoning sickness work if he's constantly changing permanent types? Can you cast Mairsil, the Pretender, immedietly put One with the Stars on him and then activate him to use Corrupting Licid's ability since he's no longer a creature?
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Nope. Enchantments cannot be attached to things just like Artifacts can't be attached to things. It is the subtype which allows it so it needs to be an Aura or an Equipment (and can't be a creature which One with the Stars *does* help solve for).

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

Mizzium Transreliquat as another Mirage Mirror.

Mimeofacture is another use out of the Spy Kit plan.

Evil Twin can kill any nonlegendary creature with Spy Kit.

I do like particular ideas around this deck, I'm always up for nonsense. But there are some things that in practice probably just not going to be practical.
I think sinking mana into buff cards like Demonspine Whip, Everflame Eidolon, Erebos's Emissary and hoping to Backlash is something that isn't really going to happen during games.
Your mana is going to be tied up in other setups and protection, and you'll find yourself with pumping only a few times for a couple of points extra damage even in super late stages of games.

Grafted Wargear, Grafted Exoskeleton, Stitcher's Graft can be used with Mirage Mirror/Mizzium Transreliquat plan and attaching with Licids.
Now you can't use the Licid abilities to unattach as once you use Mirage Mirror the Licid activated abilities disappear, but as long as you have your own creature that you can equip to during your turn for the sacrifice effect.

Helm of the Host can be used to create copies of opponents creatures.

Blade of Selves on Mairsil and just attack means that you can get 3 cage triggers each turn (with 4 players) which sets you up nicely for abilities.

Fumble is kind of like another Magnetic Theft.

Godo, Bandit Warlord and Deadeye Quartermaster are equipment tutors.

Kormus Bell + Urborg makes all lands creatures so you can also use Sowing Salt and Crumble to Dust for the exile all nonlegendary creatures from decks with Spy Kit.
Even Kormus Bell by itself is going to present a lot of targets naturally by opponents.
Auras that make lands creatures are; Awaken the Ancient, Corrupted Zendikon, Crusher Zendikon, Genju of the Falls, Genju of the Fens, Genju of the Spires, Wind Zendikon.

As far as what the end result of a deck could look as a whole I'd need to really think about it more. What I tend to do these days is just build a version that I would play and post it in threads and players can take away what they want from it.
My version would be heavy on artifact tutors as key plans are equipment based.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Also, how does summoning sickness work if he's constantly changing permanent types? Can you cast Mairsil, the Pretender, immedietly put One with the Stars on him and then activate him to use Corrupting Licid's ability since he's no longer a creature?
You edited your post after I posted my response above so I never answered this: Yes, that works just fine. Only creatures are affected by summoning sickness so if you can find a way to make him not a creature (that doesn't also remove his abilities) you can tap him right away to an ability that requires him to tap.

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

Moonlighter wrote:
2 years ago
WizardMN wrote:
2 years ago
@Moonlighter
One thing I realized that was never clarified in the rules discussion above was about Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang. In order for that ability to work to protect Mairsil the way you want, you need to leave Mairsil in Exile. If you move him to the Command Zone, he won't return, but leaving him in exile leaves him exceptionally vulnerable since players can Stifle the return trigger or just bounce or exile the token and Mairsil will be stuck.
Oho, well... it's for those who like to live dangerously, then! No one in my playgroup has even heard of Stifle, but it's not something I feel is sound to leave in.
You know that saying "live by the sword die by the sword"...

Actually another question @WizardMN if an equipment is equipped to a man land like Inkmoth Nexus does that equipment "unattach" specifically or just fall off at end of turn?
If the equipment was Grafted Wargear would I have to sacrifice the Inkmoth Nexus?

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
Actually another question @WizardMN if an equipment is equipped to a man land like Inkmoth Nexus does that equipment "unattach" specifically or just fall off at end of turn?
Yes :)

Falling off means that it becomes unattached. It doesn't really matter why it stops being attached: if it is attached and then stops being attached, it "becomes unattached" so Wargear will indeed trigger and the Nexus would have to be sacrificed:


701.3d. To "unattach" an Equipment from a creature means to move it away from that creature so the Equipment is on the battlefield but is not equipping anything. It should no longer be physically touching any creature. If an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that was attached to an object or player ceases to be attached to it, that counts as "becoming unattached [from that object or player]"; this includes if that Aura, Equipment, or Fortification leaves the battlefield, the object leaves the zone it was in, or that player leaves the game.
[/quote]

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

Alright here is my take on your deck. It's essentially a no-budget brew. I've gone for maximum elusiveness as it's just a style of play I enjoy.
I'm not going to Licid a creature until there is a full purpose. The problem with just enchanting an opponents creature is that they will then look to kill it as soon as they can.
Now not to say there isn't a version that you really play political, but if they know you have Dichotomancy in your deck then they are always going to have a better safe than sorry approach.
So until I have full setups it's more of a case that I'd use the Licid as a way to avoid targeted creature removal.
I have Kefnet the Mindful and Bontu the Glorified as indestructible creatures so that you can attach Mairsil to them in the face of a Damnation type effect.

There are typical staple Mairsil creatures in Morphling, Quicksilver Elemental, Aetherling, Deadeye Navigator but I'm not using them for abusive stuff, their goal is still to support the general idea of attaching Mairsil.

I guess one of the biggest tech cards is Rootwater Matriarch. You can steal creatures you've Licid. This also means that you can hard cast Licids for more gains.
The neat thing is that you can steal creatures then equip them with your equipment, then release them again, but you've now attached your Spy Kit or whatever to them.

Blade of Selves as I mentioned with getting cage counters, but it's also another equipment that can be put onto opponents creatures. As you get the tokens you get to attack players in other peoples turns which honestly is something that I've never encountered before.
Even more weirdly you can attack the player whose turn it is which I don't know if is even allowed by the rules! Love it.

Doesn't work like this unfortunately.

Abduction are Treachery enchantments that you can use Mirage Mirror so that you can actually take control of the creature you've Licid for that turn.

Fool's Demise, Screams from Within, Traveling Plague are auras that you can turn Mairsil into to either return to hand or play.

Cascading Cataracts and Darksteel Citadel are in the deck so that you can use Mirage Mirror ability to make Mairsil one of these against destroy effects. Mizzium Transreliquat can only target Darksteel Citadel.

Tribute Mage, Trinket Mage, Trophy Mage can all get key cards and are made better by Deadeye Navigator, Helm of the Host.
I wanted a certain amount of creatures in the deck so that there are targets for equipping Stitcher's Graft or Grafted Wargear.

darrenhabib version of attached Mairsil

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

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Post by Moonlighter » 2 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
Blade of Selves as I mentioned with getting cage counters, but it's also another equipment that can be put onto opponents creatures. As you get the tokens you get to attack players in other peoples turns which honestly is something that I've never encountered before.
Even more weirdly you can attack the player whose turn it is which I don't know if is even allowed by the rules! Love it.
This is absolutely the type of complete madness I was hoping for, and you are amazing for seeing this. @WizardMN I have to know if this works the way it looks like it works... Anyway, I appreciate your take and yours will certainly fold less rapidly to a decent boardstate than mine. I'll try and find something more in the middle ground. I do think Vorpal Sword is too hilarious to leave out, though.
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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

Moonlighter wrote:
2 years ago
I do think Vorpal Sword is too hilarious to leave out, though.
The thing is that trying to play a political game where you team up with another player to sneak in a lethal attack is going to be waaaaaay harder in practice as they are also wary that at any stage they can get Dichotomancy. There is just more incentive to leave that creature back for blocking.
Your best chance at this plan is to wait for some unblocked creature and then activate Licid ability onto that creature. But that cost 1-3 mana more. It's going to be really hard to sit around with 10 mana available in the chance that there is going to be an unblocked creature.
Now what does happen after the first time you pull that off is that your play group is going to see that combo onboard and are not going to attack because it makes blocking imperative.
If that makes sense attacking becomes hard because opponents would be willing to throw everything in the way to make sure nothing is unblocked.
So that mainly leaves you as the target of attacks once you get setup.
Blood Reckoning, Hissing Miasma, Marchesa's Decree are not going to stop important attacks imo.
Propaganda is a little better but it still doesn't give incentive to actually attacking.

Now that's not to say that you can't build around it more.
There are cards that force creatures to attack like Angler Turtle, Geode Rager, Kardur, Doomscourge, The Akroan War. But these still don't prevent attacks into you.
Disrupt Decorum and Kardur, Doomscourge sets this up, but now this is 4 additional mana to the already 8 mana or more mana for Vorpal Sword.
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is a really great way to prevent attacks on yourself.
The thing is that this is a lot of work when you can equip your own Invisible Stalker for lethal attacks.

One interaction that has potential is with Sword of Feast and Famine and you can untap all your lands during opponents turns. However the Licid abilities requiring tapping Mairsil so it's not like you get to do it every opponents turn. Even with an untapper like Morphling you'd have to do it on alternative turns with the "once each turn" stipulation of Mairsil.
Mizzium Transreliquat is better at this as you can change it between say a Sword of Feast and Famine and then turn it into say Sword of the Paruns to untap Mairsil.
The Shiny Impetus and Bloodthirsty Blade in your deck is one way to force a creature to attack by using Mirage Mirror to copy them, but now you don't have other abilities to really make use of it like the Vorpal Sword idea.
This is where Quicksilver Elemental can get around these restrictions when you target your own Mairsil. You can make Mairsil different cards through out combat, so that it's Shiny Impetus at start of combat, then Sword of Feast and Famine and then Sword of the Paruns to untap Mairsil.

Actually a cool card is Aggression as you can use it to kill a creature that didn't attack. You can wait until the trigger is on the stack at end of turn and then turn off the Licid ability before it resolves so you don't lose Mairsil.
Auras in general are obviously more fragile as they rely on creatures staying on the board where as equipment just sticks around.
If you put Aggression or Shiny Impetus, etc on opponents creatures then once they know you can start abusing them, there is a big incentive to kill that creature by all your opponents.
This where your own indestructible or hexproof creatures can come in very handy to just put the auras on them so that they stick around.

I have this general problem with Blade of Selves in that I have to do it before attacks and then is an opponent really going to attack if they are going to get attacked back by a copy of their creature? No, you have to have ways to force them to attack.
The thing is that I can't even use Bloodthirsty Blade and Blade of Selves as Mairsil can only be one of these in attack phase.
My best bet is to literally use Bloodthirsty Blade during my turn on a creature and then I can use Mairsil as Blade of Selves.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

Moonlighter wrote:
2 years ago
darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
Blade of Selves as I mentioned with getting cage counters, but it's also another equipment that can be put onto opponents creatures. As you get the tokens you get to attack players in other peoples turns which honestly is something that I've never encountered before.
Even more weirdly you can attack the player whose turn it is which I don't know if is even allowed by the rules! Love it.
This is absolutely the type of complete madness I was hoping for, and you are amazing for seeing this. @WizardMN I have to know if this works the way it looks like it works... Anyway, I appreciate your take and yours will certainly fold less rapidly to a decent boardstate than mine. I'll try and find something more in the middle ground. I do think Vorpal Sword is too hilarious to leave out, though.
Unfortunately not. This isn't the same as a Sword of Feast and Famine allowing you to get the trigger since Blade of Selves is not what is triggering. Instead, it grants an ability to the creature it is equipping. Since the ability is what triggers, and their creature is what has that ability, they get the tokens and get to choose who to attack.

To the second points above though, even if you did control the tokens, they can't be attacking. For example, Captain's Claws gets us a similar situation. Since you control the Claws/Mairsil, you get the tapped and "attacking" token. However, since it is not your turn, the token cannot be attacking so it just enters tapped and decidedly *not* attacking.

There is no way in black border magic to ever control a creature that is attacking someone when it is not your turn.

The rule for this particular scenario:


506.3b. If an effect would put a creature onto the battlefield attacking under the control of any player except an attacking player, that creature does enter the battlefield, but it's never considered to be an attacking creature.

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

I had a look through all the auras in Grixis and there are a number of interesting interactions that can be used.
There are a handful of them that basically say "When this card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return this card to its owner's hand."
Despondency, Fool's Demise, Glistening Oil, Sleeper's Guile, Undying Rage.
If you turn Mairsil into one of these auras then it means that he will get returned to hand if sent to the graveyard.
Fool's Demise even has the upside of returning the creature under your control. Very powerful.
Another good thing about these cards is that I was saying auras are more fragile than equipment because they can be taken off the battlefield by killing creatures they enchant, but these have naturally in built resiliency as they return to hand as well.
Then some go even further by returning back to battlefield with Screams from Within and Traveling Plague.
Anyway I really like these so adding a combination of them to my build.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
I had a look through all the auras in Grixis and there are a number of interesting interactions that can be used.
There are a handful of them that basically say "When this card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return this card to its owner's hand."
Despondency, Fool's Demise, Glistening Oil, Sleeper's Guile, Undying Rage.
If you turn Mairsil into one of these auras then it means that he will get returned to hand if sent to the graveyard.
Fool's Demise even has the upside of returning the creature under your control. Very powerful.
Another good thing about these cards is that I was saying auras are more fragile than equipment because they can be taken off the battlefield by killing creatures they enchant, but these have naturally in built resiliency as they return to hand as well.
Then some go even further by returning back to battlefield with Screams from Within and Traveling Plague.
Anyway I really like these so adding a combination of them to my build.
You missed Necrotic Plague.

The only way to turn him into one of these enchantments is Mirage Mirror right? This appears to be a hidden Mirage Mirror commander deck.

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