Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

I agree on Lich Lord and Husk. I had Lich Lord when I was running Grimgrin and I still didn't like it there and, as mentioned, Varina has even more to do with mana that the card isn't likely to be activated too often. Husk is just a worse Carrion Feeder and, while Sac Outlets are nice, 3 mana is better spent elsewhere.

I know I wouldn't look at either Filth or Wonder since neither are zombies. Obviously not everyone is sticking with that restriction though. I do agree Filth is the better of the two. Though, it does depend on the mana base. I have 10 Islands and 3 fetches that can get Islands so having an Island isn't exactly out of the question. If getting an Island is less of a hurdle, Wonder becomes better just by virtue of not needing to worry about what the opponent has for Swamps or needing Urborg to make it work.

Silversmote just looks bad to me. We can do much better than that I think and even the 2 mana to draw a card is something I would probably want to put towards Varina's ability. I don't think the card, as it is, just does enough worth making room for.

I think Gempalm is better. 2 mana to draw a card and make someone lose life isn't too bad. The main reason I have stayed away from it is because it almost doesn't seem like enough. For example, in one of my more recent games, I had 15 zombies on the field thanks to Twilight's Call. With the lord effects and a bunch of other triggers, I was able to make opponents lose 60+ life. The 15 I would have gotten with Gempalm would have been superfluous at best.

Basically, my thinking is that it is tough to get an army big enough for Gempalm to matter where said army isn't already doing something much better on its own. It certainly isn't a bad card, but I feel that firing it off for 6 or 7 just to draw a card is likely more common than a massive instance of life loss. And that 6 or 7 life from one person isn't likely going to do much. Unless it is the end of the game.

Rot Hulk has a really good effect, but 7 mana means it really almost needs to be cheated out somehow. I like the card, and the instance above with looping Doomed Necromancer with it is pretty awesome. How has it been working without that though? @yeti1069: have you ever hardcast it and what happened in that situation? Was it good enough to rebuild or do anything from a losing position or did it just reinforce an already winning position? I am not opposed to it but there is a very high bar to clear for a 7 mana reanimation spell, considering the rest are 5 and 6 mana (with some caveats) and they get everything.

It also doesn't come in foil, so there is that :P

As for Reconnaissance and Library of Leng: neither is all that great. I have preferred leaning into the discard element of Varina as it is and have had more success with that. Saving cards with Library isn't really all that needed (though discarding everything does open us up to getting blown out with grave hate).

And we can usually just hang back with attackers if we need something untapped. I have tried Recon in a number of different decks and I am always surprised at how underwhelming it is. It is a "better" Vigilance but hasn't been all that great in general.

Now, considering the bulk of this post has been negative: I am completely on board with Cemetery Reaper being "not good". Or, at least, being the worst of the lords. I have literally never activated the ability because Withered Wretch does it better as it is and 3 mana and tapping it is a high cost for one card. That being said, I am with Toc that there aren't a lot of good options for that slot, even if it isn't replaced with a Lord. Maybe Zendikar brings some new zombies that can replace it but as it stands now, I don't think there is anything worth putting into that slot.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Lots to respond to so in lieu of quoting everyone I'll just jot my thoughts down.

I just don't see an easy and suitable replacement for Cemetery Reaper at present. The slight buff is fine, and I don't see anything better at present. Silversmote Ghoul seems really slow, and there's just better things to do with that mana, so I can't see it pulling enough weight. To be honest, when it comes to draw for the deck I compare everything to Cryptbreaker; It drops first turn, and as soon as there's zombies in play it gives you immediate card draw that ignores summoning sickness, even if the card itself was cast this turn. I know that's a high bar to clear, but I guess it just means I'm less likely to want to settle for less. In terms of that 3 slot I really want to like Prized Amalgam for it; it's vanilla, but it's also really quite easy to set yourself up for it to always be in play. Between Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Apprentice Necromancer, Relentless Dead, Gravecrawler and (were I to add it back in) Phyrexian Delver it's easy enough to have it aside as a chump blocker.

Gempalm Polluter I did initially have in the deck, but I don't think I cycled it even once. I just feel like outside of that one trick it's a bit of a tough sell. And if it does end up in play from some mass reanimation it's very vanilla.

Filth and Wonder....I get why people want them in the deck, truly, but I can't see it myself. Filth has a cheaper variant in Zombie Master and Wonder I have a superior option in Eldrazi Monument, so I just don't see the point in doubling up on these effects. Truth be told with 3 other players at the table I generally don't have trouble finding a way to connect, either with political means or just picking targets well. Aside from that, with Death Baron, Lord of the Accursed, Eldrazi Monument and Zombie Master I'm pretty well covered for evasion as is. And by the time I'm knocking someone out of the game evasion barely matters. If I were going to add something else in to make combat favourable, it'd probably be Graf Harvest, to be honest. Menace is underrated, and with the numbers we can put up it makes connecting pretty easy. The casting cost doesn't get better either. I don't think I've ever used its exile effect, but that's fine.

Reconnaissance/Library of Leng - I SO wanted Library to fit here, but it just doesn't. If we were playing around with Miracle, it'd be grand, but it's just a wasted slot otherwise. Honestly, at this point, I think I'd just prefer another rock in Reconnaissance's slot to spin the wheels a bit faster, because it really is surplus to requirement and acceleration would be handy.
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Post by yeti1069 » 3 years ago

In regards to Rot Hulk, I have hard cast it, and recast with Havengul Lich. I've also had it do some work with Living Death, bringing back whatever zombies I had in play (and when I was still running Phyrexian Delver, the pair did some WORK). I do run Rooftop Storm, which makes putting Hulk into play easier. Hulk has definitely turned my position around in more than one game. My feeling, also, is that it's okay to run a few high costed cards here, since Varina can replace them easily enough.

My thinking with Library of Leng was that I hate discarding my non-creatures, but am often in the position with Varina's trigger that I have to dump something. I figure since Library is a 'may' effect, it could be used to save your non-creatures to use later, essentially turning the top of your library into an extended hand in some sense. That said, I think I only drew it in two games, had it work reasonably in one, and had it removed before it did anything in the other. Never tutored for it, so I eventually gave it the heave-ho.

I would run Silversmote over Prized Amalgam, I think. Fairly certain it's easier to trigger the 3 life gain with this deck than have a creature enter from the yard. Not to mention, the Ghoul swings for the same power, and has some additional utility, even if using it would be rare, whereas the Amalgam is strictly vanilla on the field.

I haven't been running Eldrazi Monument, but probably should.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
3 years ago
My thinking with Library of Leng was that I hate discarding my non-creatures, but am often in the position with Varina's trigger that I have to dump something. I figure since Library is a 'may' effect, it could be used to save your non-creatures to use later, essentially turning the top of your library into an extended hand in some sense. That said, I think I only drew it in two games, had it work reasonably in one, and had it removed before it did anything in the other. Never tutored for it, so I eventually gave it the heave-ho.
Similar results here. To be honest, looking back it really doesn't make a lot of sense that it would fit in the deck at all. You'd need some seriously deep draw ability to make discarding to the top of your library a viable solution to discarding, and that's just way less efficient than mass reanimation.
yeti1069 wrote:
3 years ago
I would run Silversmote over Prized Amalgam, I think. Fairly certain it's easier to trigger the 3 life gain with this deck than have a creature enter from the yard. Not to mention, the Ghoul swings for the same power, and has some additional utility, even if using it would be rare, whereas the Amalgam is strictly vanilla on the field.
I actually don't think either one makes a great case for replacing Cemetery Reaper myself. Both have their flaws, one in that it's really quite unremarkable other than being persistent and the other in that it's very slow and cumbersome. I'm happy to keep Reaper as a flex spot for now. At some point I'll track down Undead Warchief and be a lot happier with the arrangement, but until then or until something else better comes along I'm perfectly fine with making do.
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Post by Nikerym » 3 years ago

yeti1069 wrote:
3 years ago
I would run Silversmote over Prized Amalgam, I think. Fairly certain it's easier to trigger the 3 life gain with this deck than have a creature enter from the yard. Not to mention, the Ghoul swings for the same power, and has some additional utility, even if using it would be rare, whereas the Amalgam is strictly vanilla on the field.
Yeah, I think the play pattern with Silversmote is to attack with 3+ duders, Varina triggers, discard Silversmote and get him back for free EOT, it is basicly a free body from a mandatory discard. Is there any playable madness cards that could support the strategy? Im a sucker for free value:P Does From Under the Floorboards work with Bone Miser and Varina? IE. attack with 6 dudes, dump 5 lands and From Under the floorboards into the yard, madness triggers and Bone Miser triggers. Can you spend the mana from Bone Miser to fuel the X? Grave Scrabbler is also an option to get "free value" when discarding.
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Filth and Wonder....I get why people want them in the deck, truly, but I can't see it myself. Filth has a cheaper variant in Zombie Master and Wonder I have a superior option in Eldrazi Monument, so I just don't see the point in doubling up on these effects.
The main reasoning to consider including Filth and/or Wonder is that you have to discard with Varina, so getting additional value when discarding just seems neat to me, and it is a solid combat trick since the benefit can be given during attacks, cmc is Irrelevant on them since the play pattern would be discard in combat, never cast + sac.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
Yeah, I think the play pattern with Silversmote is to attack with 3+ duders, Varina triggers, discard Silversmote and get him back for free EOT, it is basicly a free body from a mandatory discard. Is there any playable madness cards that could support the strategy? Im a sucker for free value:P Does From Under the Floorboards work with Bone Miser and Varina? IE. attack with 6 dudes, dump 5 lands and From Under the floorboards into the yard, madness triggers and Bone Miser triggers. Can you spend the mana from Bone Miser to fuel the X? Grave Scrabbler is also an option to get "free value" when discarding.
I guess there's some synergy already there with Archfiend of Ifnir and Bone Miser. I did a check on madness cards and there's really not a ton I'd be keen to play. From Under the Floorboards is pretty flavourful, but the tokens coming into play hurts a little. Welcome to the Fold is an option too maybe?
Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
The main reasoning to consider including Filth and/or Wonder is that you have to discard with Varina, so getting additional value when discarding just seems neat to me, and it is a solid combat trick since the benefit can be given during attacks, cmc is Irrelevant on them since the play pattern would be discard in combat, never cast + sac.
Fair point. I personally don't see the need, but I can see why it'd be reasonable to add them, and it's easier in this deck than almost anywhere else to get them where they need to be.
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Post by sr925713 » 3 years ago

Hey, thanks a lot for making this primer. Its been interesting hearing others' experiences with Varina.

Just wanted to chime in with my experience with the deck. I used to run a more aggro heavy zombie tribal, then it slowly morphed closer to what you're playing. In fact, the difference now between my deck and yours is I run Grimgrin, mire triton, lazotep reaper, butcher ghoul, throne of the god pharoh, anointed procession, faith of the devoted, loyal subordinate, path to exile and authority of the consuls. Seems like my deck might be a little more focused on the drain aspect of zombies.

Just had a game where cryptbreaker and shepard of rot did work early game. Then once varina got out, i looted into a wayward servant and liliana. I was about to die to a xenagod, then good ole supreme verdict (with someone's poison tip archer on board lol) killed 2 players. I followed up by zombie apocalypse, which loaded the board to all the fun 5 drops, easily ending the game.

Super fun deck, I love all the decisions you make when looting and making tokens.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

sr925713 wrote:
3 years ago
Hey, thanks a lot for making this primer. Its been interesting hearing others' experiences with Varina.

Just wanted to chime in with my experience with the deck. I used to run a more aggro heavy zombie tribal, then it slowly morphed closer to what you're playing. In fact, the difference now between my deck and yours is I run Grimgrin, mire triton, lazotep reaper, butcher ghoul, throne of the god pharoh, anointed procession, faith of the devoted, loyal subordinate, path to exile and authority of the consuls. Seems like my deck might be a little more focused on the drain aspect of zombies.

Just had a game where cryptbreaker and shepard of rot did work early game. Then once varina got out, i looted into a wayward servant and liliana. I was about to die to a xenagod, then good ole supreme verdict (with someone's poison tip archer on board lol) killed 2 players. I followed up by zombie apocalypse, which loaded the board to all the fun 5 drops, easily ending the game.

Super fun deck, I love all the decisions you make when looting and making tokens.
You're very welcome. It's pretty interesting from my end too, simply because there's just so much scope for variety with this commander.

Sounds like your deck is leaning pretty heavily into the bleeder theme, which is pretty effective. Throne of the God-Pharaoh is a neat trick with Cryptbreaker and just generally combat, I kinda like that. I think I'd probably want a few more ways to tap down outside of combat (Opposition? Hour of Reckoning?) to run it myself, but it's a savage card that could do some great things.

Anointed Procession is a pretty damn strong inclusion too; I like it, but I'm not sure I have the token spread to justify it's inclusion. Also, there's no way I'm paying the going rate for it, that thing shot up ridiculously :crazy:
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Post by Nikerym » 3 years ago

Opposition with Tombstone Stairwell seems super nasty

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
Opposition with Tombstone Stairwell seems super nasty
Yeah, that could be pretty savage for sure. Add in something like Crackdown, Back to Basics, Winter Orb or Stasis and you've got yourself a nice wee board lock.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

So, I'm in the initial phases of brewing a grixis zombie list and was looking over your list for additional ideas. What are your thoughts on Rooftop Storm, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, and Nameless Inversion (Crib Swap too for esper, the changelings can make Shepherd of Rot lethal pretty easily I'd say)? Obviously best together, but still solid value individually (several good zombie knights) and I was surprised to not see any. Lili's -3 does a Haakon impression for some redundancy too.
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Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

I am not toc, but I can say in my wife's Varina list that Rooftop Storm is extremely "win-more". In theory it can be part of some Rube Golberg infinites alongside Gravecrawler and a sacrifice outlet (with one other zombie on the battlefield) but too often when she can actually afford to spend a full six mana on it and then have it survive a turn around the table, she was already winning anyways. She still runs it since it's fun, but it often gets discarded to Varina or just serves as a flourish on the way to a win.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Hawk wrote:
3 years ago
I am not toc, but I can say in my wife's Varina list that Rooftop Storm is extremely "win-more". In theory it can be part of some Rube Golberg infinites alongside Gravecrawler and a sacrifice outlet (with one other zombie on the battlefield) but too often when she can actually afford to spend a full six mana on it and then have it survive a turn around the table, she was already winning anyways. She still runs it since it's fun, but it often gets discarded to Varina or just serves as a flourish on the way to a win.
MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
So, I'm in the initial phases of brewing a grixis zombie list and was looking over your list for additional ideas. What are your thoughts on Rooftop Storm, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, and Nameless Inversion (Crib Swap too for esper, the changelings can make Shepherd of Rot lethal pretty easily I'd say)? Obviously best together, but still solid value individually (several good zombie knights) and I was surprised to not see any. Lili's -3 does a Haakon impression for some redundancy too.
What Hawk said. Rooftop Storm is a combo enabler, and pretty much nothing more. At least, here it is anyway. In my experience it's the sort of card people expect to see and hold up removal for, and it's been my experience that you end up paying 5u to bait removal and nothing more. Similar results with Endless Ranks of the Dead (although tbh that one is even worse). Either that or you've already won and Storm just helps you do it more quickly.

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge just probably doesn't really interact with enough other stuff to be worth it here. Adding changeling synergy is a reasonable way to leverage it, but none of them are really stunning other than being zombies and knights simultaneously. Changeling Outcast I could see here for being cheap, and Mirror Entity is a finisher (although I'm far from certain I have the reliable mana to use it's pump reliably), but otherwise I'm not convinced for others. I guess Crib Swap is cool, but I'm not fully sold on it. Outside of changelings the only card I have that Haakon interacts with is Corpse Knight. And it's a doozy, but if Random Card of the Day this week has taught us anything it's taught us that 1 card in 99 should not be relied upon.

I'm curious Meow, who's your commander and how are you making it all work together? I've always been curious about Sedris, the Traitor King, but I suspect you've maybe gone further off the beaten track than that.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
I'm curious Meow, who's your commander and how are you making it all work together? I've always been curious about Sedris, the Traitor King, but I suspect you've maybe gone further off the beaten track than that.
You suspect??!?! Why, it's as though you think my decks tend to be unconventional, or weird, or something. . . Good, gooooooooood :cool:

So, I'm still in the VERY early phases of piecing things together, but the idea is "Mairsil, Pretend Zombie" featuring Mairsil, the Pretender.

Mairsil can combo pretty dang easy. @Crazy Monkey has a list on here that is sweet and features combos with stuff like Tree of Perdition + Hateflayer or Tree of Perdition + Aquamoeba + Cephalid Inkshrouder.

I want to take Mairsil down a less combotastic route, but still take advantage of some of the really sweet engines he can set up once he gets going with stuff like Buried Alive, Dralnu, Lich Lord, Aetherling, Pendant of Prosperity, etc. One of the best is using Mairsil to cage both Endling + a way to sac Mairsil for value, like Commander's Sphere + a way to remove the undying counter, like Cinderhaze Wretch or Cryptic Trilobite. There's also the opposite route with something like Cauldron of Souls to give persist, then Carrion Feeder to negate the -1/-1 counter. Lots of loops to fool around with there.

So, one thing led to another as I was poking around on scryfall and I noticed lots of zombies have good activated abilities: Carrion Feeder, Cryptbreaker, Shepherd of Rot, Withered Wretch, Cemetery Reaper, Lord of the Accursed, and The Scarab God from your list alone are all solid Mairsil targets. Havengul Lich and Corpse Harvester seem ideal too. Then there's also some non-zombies that would make good Mairsil targets but give zombie value, like Stitcher Geralf and Havengul Runebinder. Then I thought, gee wouldn't it be nifty to make sort of a theme deck where Mairsil is this crazy person (seems to check out with the card art tbh) that believes he is a zombie? So I can run nonsense like Nim Deathmantle, Blades of Velis Vel, Wings of Velis Vel (hence my questions about Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and Nameless Inversion), and Necromantic Selection to make him a zombie and get some payoff with something like Stoneforge Masterwork + a caged Aetherling making Mairsil a massive unblockable zombie that's ridiculously hard to get rid of.

It's still just an idea, and there's a lot to work out with regard to ratios of zombies, Mairsil targets, self mill, engine cards, etc. One of the sticking points I'm running into is whether to go creature heavy with non-token zombies, or spell heavy with token zombies and just run the most essential lords and Mairsil targets. I definitely don't want to fall into the combo trap of relying entirely on Mairsil and permanents, but relying on spellslinging and token generation gets clunky because amass isn't always the greatest and some of the big Z spells like Army of the Damned and Rise from the Tides are slow and can't be helped by Anger or some other haste enabler.

Anywho, lots to think about. All input appreciated :)
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

@MeowZeDung that is a cool idea. Mairsil, the Pretender is capable of some pretty bizarre interactions.

Further zombie related cards with cool abilities: Geth, Lord of the Vault, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Accursed Horde, Advanced Stitchwing, Blighted Bat, Fatestitcher, Gravespawn Sovereign, Putrid Imp. For super flavour and bonus cool points, if you can make Grimoire of the Dead work under Mairsil, the Pretender, I tip my hat to you.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Oooh, some cool suggestions there. Thank you!

I definitely was considering Geth and Grimgrin.

Blighted Bat is easy on the curve and provides a relevant ability for Mairsil.

The Sovereign is mighty tempting, not gonna lie.

I don't know if Stitchwing works. I guess Mairsil still has activated abilities of all caged cards while in the yard. Will have to look it up. might be too much since I'd rather persist/undying/protect Mairsil, but it's still worth consideration.

Yeah, I really wanted to make Grimoire work when I saw it. . . the problem is that Mairsil would have to get to that third counter and have a way to untap and tap for the second ability without being targeted with any removal since the standard way to protect him will likely be Aetherling or some other flicker effect, and that gets rid of the study counters. I guess Cinderhaze Wretch + Grimoire and enough mana gets me there since Mairsil has 4 toughness. Fun.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Yeah, I really wanted to make Grimoire work when I saw it. . . the problem is that Mairsil would have to get to that third counter and have a way to untap and tap for the second ability without being targeted with any removal since the standard way to protect him will likely be Aetherling or some other flicker effect, and that gets rid of the study counters. I guess Cinderhaze Wretch + Grimoire and enough mana gets me there since Mairsil has 4 toughness. Fun.
I feel like you'd really need to be able to drop the counters on him super quick, or proliferate them and make it all happen in one turn. Might be a tad too far to push it.
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Post by yeti1069 » 3 years ago

Hawk wrote:
3 years ago
I am not toc, but I can say in my wife's Varina list that Rooftop Storm is extremely "win-more". In theory it can be part of some Rube Golberg infinites alongside Gravecrawler and a sacrifice outlet (with one other zombie on the battlefield) but too often when she can actually afford to spend a full six mana on it and then have it survive a turn around the table, she was already winning anyways. She still runs it since it's fun, but it often gets discarded to Varina or just serves as a flourish on the way to a win.
I find Rooftop is often simply a value piece. We draw so many cards, that it's possible we have Rooftop and 3+ zombies in hand, where we can only cast 1-2 of them, or drop Rooftop and dump our hand of zombies. It also combos really well with both Lord of the Undead and Havengul Lich without necessarily being a combo piece. It's much more attractive to spend 1, and bring in a zombie for free, than spend 1 and then have to cast the zombie, or spend 1B and drop the zombie into play immediately.

Of course, it also has combo potential, depending on which other cards you have in the deck, and again, since we do so much looting, it isn't ever really a totally dead card, since it can be pitched to keep something else.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Yeah, my primary interest in it was to use Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and storm to get a free board wipe from looping Nameless Inversion, but then I realized it's only zombie creatures that are affected. Sad trombone.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

So I made a few updates recently after recent games and discussion here:


The cuts we've talked about. Scarab is just too slow to be use here, and I just don't generally care how my creatures fare in combat. Either way I usually have a pretty clear idea of who I can or can't hit for a favourable outcome so Recon is just an empty slot. I've popped a couple back in that I was previously running as I've needed the removal in recent games. Tried and true, they've done good work for me so I'm happy to see them back in.

In terms of other cards I'm eyeing, Twilight's Call definitely caught my eye. Instant-speed reanimation is pretty nice, and seems pretty doable with Zombie Infestation and Bone Miser about, or Smothering Tithe. Nothing else I'm super keen on, other than being on the fence as to whether I ought to have pulled the Windfall variants out of the deck or not. Those sort of cards do have a tendency to get things rolling nicely, so I may walk that decision back in the near future.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Got some actual game play in today! Had a 4v4 against Thassa, Deep-Dwelling, Korvold, Fae-Cursed King and Ghired, Conclave Exile.

I had a relatively slow start. Dropped Path of Ancestry turn one, Undead Augur turn 2 and started fixing my draws, but had relatively little else to cast for zombies. Predictably, Ghired, Conclave Exile came out swinging, and Korvold, Fae-Cursed King put some nice pieces into play, with Seal of Primordium coming in early. I had Teferi's Ageless Insight in my starting hand, so I was hoping someone else would bait him to sacrifice this.

That happened when Ghired, Conclave Exile dropped Parallel Lives, and rightly so. I dropped Insight and started swinging, indiscriminately but fairly - enough to survive combat but not target anyone in particular. Over the next few turns I cast Varina, Lich Queen, and drew into a few extra land drops, Smothering Tithe and some great zombie fodder - Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Cryptbreaker, Graveborn Muse, Shepherd of Rot, Agent of Erebos and Patriarch's Bidding and Living Death. I cast Smothering Tithe noting that Thassa, Deep-Dwelling was tapped out so was relatively sure it would survive a turn or two, cast Shepherd of Rot and pass turn.

At this point we're about 7-8 turns deep and Korvold, Fae-Cursed King starts to amp up. Casts his commander, sacrifices some pieces to Viscera Seer, then casts Scapeshift for 5, with Field of the Dead in play. We can all see where this is going, but no one is paying for Tithe. My turn is right after Korvold, Fae-Cursed King's, so I untap with 12 treasure tokens in play as well as 8 lands. I draw for turn, cast Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, it resolves, and I pretty much have it in the bag. I cast Patriarch's Bidding naming zombies, get 5 zombies back in play, resolve Agent of Erebos's trigger against Korvold, Fae-Cursed King so he can't grab his lands back, resolve Gray Merchant of Asphodel for 14 life loss and 42 life gain. I tap Shepherd of Rot for 10 life across the board, which puts everyone in single digits, and I end it by casting Living Death - everything except for Mikaeus, the Unhallowed gets an undying trigger, so I get another Gary, a whole mess of draw from Undead Augur and another exile trigger from Agent of Erebos. Game over with extreme disparity of life totals - I would've ended with a touch over 100 life after all triggers resolved.

Lessons learned today:
  • Teferi's Ageless Insight is twice as nice for draw.
  • Pay the tithe if you can afford to; or just don't let it resolve!
  • Sometimes it's good to have more than one mass reanimation spell in hand at one time.
  • Instead of committing to the board, it's often a better idea to wait for someone else to overextend and bait removal.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

LEH
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Post by LEH » 3 years ago

It sounds like the slow start actually benefited you that game. Holding back your plays made you seem less of a threat - obviously, it was a calculating play, but they weren't to know that (I approve lol).

I'm currently in the process of building the deck. Started out building The Scarab God and made my way over to Varina - she seems a lot more fun and better suited to my meta. I'm waiting on a few pieces but mainly the cheaper stuff; thankfully, I have played a number of years so I had a lot of the cards hiding in my collection.

I just wanted to pop on and say thank you for making this primer and keeping it up-to-date with the "ins and outs", explanations and game analysis. No doubt I will be back to bug you once I have a functioning list and a few games in.

Until then.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

LEH wrote:
3 years ago
It sounds like the slow start actually benefited you that game. Holding back your plays made you seem less of a threat - obviously, it was a calculating play, but they weren't to know that (I approve lol).

I'm currently in the process of building the deck. Started out building The Scarab God and made my way over to Varina - she seems a lot more fun and better suited to my meta. I'm waiting on a few pieces but mainly the cheaper stuff; thankfully, I have played a number of years so I had a lot of the cards hiding in my collection.

I just wanted to pop on and say thank you for making this primer and keeping it up-to-date with the "ins and outs", explanations and game analysis. No doubt I will be back to bug you once I have a functioning list and a few games in.

Until then.
Hey, another Varina convert! Welcome, and I'm really glad you've enjoyed the reading. Feel free to chime in whenever.

You're right, I did hold back a tiny bit. Korvold, Fae-Cursed King is pretty explosive, and in all honesty I think that's pretty well known, so I sort of wanted someone else in the limelight while I got myself situated. Between the Jund and Naya decks they both vied for that quite nicely, so I was able to successfully sneak by pieces into play without retort.

I look forward to seeing what you can do with the list, it's always nice to hear new perspectives, and in the meantime happy building - hope you enjoy the Esper zombie fun times :)
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Zendikar Rising Set Review




Back to Zendikar we go. Not gonna lie, as much as my Nissa primer is one of my true MtG loves and I deeply enjoy it, Zendikar is starting to feel like Ravnica to me; we could just....not go back there again. Maybe it's just me.

Anyway, not really holding out a ton of hope for anything brilliant for the list, but let's go over it nonetheless.

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands

  • Clearwater Pathway // Murkwater Pathway/Brightclimb Pathway // Grimclimb Pathway - These are fairly decent options for fixing, really. I feel like mostly I have very few issues these days with colour fixing, but the opportunity cost of is very low of these, so I'll probably pick them up at some point.
  • Lithoform Engine - It's neat, but I think it requires a really specific engine to make it do enough work. That is not this deck.
  • Skyclave Relic - It's a cool idea, but the initial outlay is hefty enough to make it a tough sell here. And.....that's really all I consider worthwhile discussing for colorless.



White


  • Ondu Inversion // Ondu Skyruins - A wipe or a land is a nice division, and that's cool, but good lord is 6ww a lot to pay. I think I skip this just based on that.
  • Skyclave Apparition - I actually really like this form of removal. It's a shame it's not a zombie, because I would otherwise find a place for it. As it is I think it'll be great for something like Tayam, Luminous Enigma (makes notes for current brew)

Blue


Black



Multicolored


  • There's nothing to really speak of here.
Pretty much what I expected; Zendikar isn't Innistrad, so it's fine. Not a ton for us, some neat options for DFC lands if that's what you want to do. I'll probably see how those go, but there's not a lot else I'll commit to personally.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

LEH
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Post by LEH » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
...Clearwater Pathway // Murkwater Pathway/Brightclimb Pathway // Grimclimb Pathway - These are fairly decent options for fixing, really. I feel like mostly I have very few issues these days with colour fixing, but the opportunity cost of is very low of these, so I'll probably pick them up at some point...
Agreed, these seem like the main includes for the deck, if anything. Shame that there isn't much else but, like you say, this is the wrong plane for Zombies.

While we're on the topic of manabases, I would be interested in thoughts on my current set up.

Having not had any games in yet I'm hoping that Varina (and her lifegain) can support City of Brass, Mana Confluence along side the Fetches, shock lands and pain lands, etc.

The decklist I'm starting out with will be very similar to toctheyounger's Primer decklist - seeing as that seems very well tested and I'm a noob to the deck.

I'm interested as to whether it would be best to include Fetid Pools or Sunken Hollow. I have gone with Hollow above as that has the potential to enter untapped but the Cycling on Fetid Pools adds a tad more utility.

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