Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

Nikerym
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Post by Nikerym » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
katsuma wrote:
3 years ago
Also considering adding an Eldrazi Monument that I opened recently -- anyone have strong feelings on how that plays in the deck?
I've had really good results with this. Get you a Gravecrawler and your board state is pretty near indomitable. I prefer it to Wonder personally.
Eldrazi Monument also does fantastic things with Tombstone Stairwell. Since Stairwell destroys the creatures EOT instead of making you sac them, Eldrazi Monument makes 'em stick around thanks to indestructible.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
katsuma wrote:
3 years ago
Also considering adding an Eldrazi Monument that I opened recently -- anyone have strong feelings on how that plays in the deck?
I've had really good results with this. Get you a Gravecrawler and your board state is pretty near indomitable. I prefer it to Wonder personally.
Eldrazi Monument also does fantastic things with Tombstone Stairwell. Since Stairwell destroys the creatures EOT instead of making you sac them, Eldrazi Monument makes 'em stick around thanks to indestructible.
Oh wow, that's a good catch. I'd never even considered that interaction. That's like.....a focused, nasty win con. Just goes to show, every time you look at Tombstone Stairwell it looks a little more crazy.

In other news, cracked a box of Legends with the wife over the weekend. No Nev, so I'm gonna just pick up the single, as it's pretty cheap. Managed to get a couple of online games in over the last few days too, and none of them were fantastic. Troubles with colour/mana made them a little one-sided, although I've quite enjoyed having God-Eternal Bontu in the deck. Really nice with stuff that's just there for ETB effects, great with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, I'm glad I added it.
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
In other news, cracked a box of Legends with the wife over the weekend.
Maybe Commander Legends was all a plot to get us to refer to this product as Legends and forget Legends happened.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
In other news, cracked a box of Legends with the wife over the weekend.
Maybe Commander Legends was all a plot to get us to refer to this product as Legends and forget Legends happened.
The price of Tabernacle ensures we will never forget. Nonetheless. Commabder Legends is pretty wordy. From here on in this set is Legends 2 to me.
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Post by Nabux » 3 years ago

Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
Eldrazi Monument also does fantastic things with Tombstone Stairwell. Since Stairwell destroys the creatures EOT instead of making you sac them, Eldrazi Monument makes 'em stick around thanks to indestructible.
Hello, first post on this website. I'm fond of this primer and the conversation, i read it silentely for months : nice people, always interesting to read.
@Toc : Like some of the people here, your posts makes me change my beloved Varina's Deck into a cooler way. Thanks for that.

I would add something to this good call !
Cast the excellent card you've alredy mentioned Dance of the Manse for 8 mana can get back Eldrazi Monument and Tombstone Stairwell (and any other arto/ench)
Thoose powerfull cards become indestructibles 5/5 flyers, and you sh*t a ton of zombies due to the interaction between the two cards.
Each time i play one of this, they are insta destroyed, so have it in the graveyard seems something doable. And this time, they are indestructible.

Archive this combo will be my next goal to reach with this deck.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
Nikerym wrote:
3 years ago
Eldrazi Monument also does fantastic things with Tombstone Stairwell. Since Stairwell destroys the creatures EOT instead of making you sac them, Eldrazi Monument makes 'em stick around thanks to indestructible.
Hello, first post on this website. I'm fond of this primer and the conversation, i read it silentely for months : nice people, always interesting to read.
@Toc : Like some of the people here, your posts makes me change my beloved Varina's Deck into a cooler way. Thanks for that.

I would add something to this good call !
Cast the excellent card you've alredy mentioned Dance of the Manse for 8 mana can get back Eldrazi Monument and Tombstone Stairwell (and any other arto/ench)
Thoose powerfull cards become indestructibles 5/5 flyers, and you sh*t a ton of zombies due to the interaction between the two cards.
Each time i play one of this, they are insta destroyed, so have it in the graveyard seems something doable. And this time, they are indestructible.

Archive this combo will be my next goal to reach with this deck.
Thanks for signing up to weigh in! Always nice to have more folk come through to say hi, so welcome :)

I have been sort of missing Dance of the Manse in the last couple games. I've had a rough couple of games with ramp being scant and having to make tough drops to the yard. This is a pretty neat interaction too - animating Eldrazi Monument is a hilarious idea and I sort of love it for how ridiculous it is.
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Post by Nikerym » 3 years ago

Oh man the accidental synergies within this deck is so hilarious and strong! Love it!

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Post by Eburon » 3 years ago

Hello,

New here, and I have been loving this primer and discussion! Any thoughts on the newly spoiled Pyre of Heroes? A repeatable tutor that puts zombies into play at the cast of a less useful zombie.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Eburon wrote:
3 years ago
Hello,

New here, and I have been loving this primer and discussion! Any thoughts on the newly spoiled Pyre of Heroes? A repeatable tutor that puts zombies into play at the cast of a less useful zombie.
This is the only deck I think I have that it makes any sense in. I think it definitely warrants a second look at least. I still have a couple cards I have been wanting to get rid of anyway, and it gives a sac outlet for Nevinyrral as needed (though, nothing to get with it in my build), so I will try it out.

I am not a huge fan of repeatable tutors, and I am not sure I would run Pod here if I could (which, this basically is for this deck), so there is a possibility that I don't end up keeping it for fear of making games repetitive. But I think it fits into the deck well; it just depends on the pilot's playstyle more than anything.

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Eburon
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Post by Eburon » 3 years ago

I get not liking tutors so games aren't repetitive. I like to run a couple of tutors for 2 reasons:

a) find an answer to a problem; or
b) because sometimes a game just needs to end.

Also, just because you can tutor for an infinite combo doesn't mean you have to. With that approach, using tutors becomes a way to just be a bit more consistent.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Yeah, it's nice to have a way to allow the deck to run smoother. For me, that's Sidisi, Undead Vizier. It's easy to reanimate, gives me a death trigger if I need it, and I can abuse the bejesus out of it if I really need to.

Pyre of Heroes I'm reluctant to add here, and mostly that's because, much like Birthing Pod, it's very build around. You need a curve from low to high and CMCs at everything between your nadir and zenith. Not only that, you really need for there to be a benefit to your creatures dying and ETB'ing, over and above an aristocrat trigger - namely, you need a way to get good bang for your buck, a la Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Sun Titan and so forth.

As well as this, it's pretty important that your deck be able to manage having a relatively sparse board state for creatures. Sure, we can reanimate stuff, but if you're sacrificing stuff wilfully to trade up you better be damn sure what you bring into play can survive without any other support. There's no guarantee we get the reanimation support to bring stuff back, so you just ought not to bank on it.

I think its possible it could be viable in this deck, but I also think the deck would look very different with a Pyre in it. Personally, if we're building around it I'd want a pretty good shell for finding it, and I'm not sure that exists on tribe. Whir of Invention is nice, transmute is an option, but Tribute Mage isn't a zombie, and there's really only so many flex spots for things that are off tribe, and otherwise options are relatively slim.

You also really want to be able to a)chain value to value with this sort of card, or b)get multiple activations per turn from it. The first we could achieve with things like Phyrexian Delver and Rot Hulk, but there's scant options otherwise. And in terms of untapping, well....there's really very little that fits well and has applications outside of Pyre. Don't get me wrong, I love Clock of Omens and Voltaic Key, Fatestitcher and such, I just don't think there's the depth of synergy to add them or any particular reason they'd be any good in the list outside of this very specific application.
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Post by yeti1069 » 3 years ago

I'd say running Pyre will be based on what you're looking for.
  • Which creatures are you major targets?
  • How valuable is tutoring for them going to be?
  • What's the CMC distribution of those targets?
  • Is there any additional value from sacrificing your own creatures (as Toc said)?
  • How does it curve for us? Affect our tempo?
For this deck, what creatures do we want to be able to hit for value? There are some aristocrats pieces at 2, 3, and 4, card draw at 1, 2, 3, and 4, lords at 3, 4, and 6, a board wipe at 5... I think there's enough distribution of value and redundancy to make it valuable here. Some are VERY high impact (Noxious Ghoul, Gary, Mikaeus, a lord, a tutor, an aristocrat).

Additional value here is rather scant. Yes, we have a mass reanimation package, but not much by way of individual or repeatable reanimation, and a single death trigger isn't doing much for us generally.

As far as curve and tempo, this is 4 mana to play and activate, and I doubt we ever really want to play this on 4 instead of Varina--if we have bodies in play, we generally want to swing to loot, and if don't, this doesn't do anything anyway. On turns 2 and 3, the deck is ideally playing out creatures. So this starts to look like a play for turn 5+. My experience with my own Varina deck, is that it tends to use mana efficiently and I don't know that dedicating 2 mana repeatedly is in line with what the deck wants to be doing, especially since the engine runs by amassing more bodies.

Running in primary black, I feel like I'd rather have a one-shot tutor for 1-2 mana here in place of this.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

For me I just think it plays too far outside of the deck's current strategy to really work well in the existing architecture. Sure, it can fetch stuff, but we've got something literally in the command zone that allows us to grab what we want without chaining from creature to creature to get it, and if I'm being honest it almost feels like a nonbo in the deck. What if I go to chain from 2 to 3 for a zombie lord, and Varina has looted the one I wanted from my library to the graveyard? That's definitely suboptimal, while not worst case scenario, but this could happen for any creature at any time, and there really are a fairly limited number of optimal targets to Pyre, and each one thats in the yard instead of the library pulls away heavily from its value*.

I guess what I'm driving at is that best case scenario it draws parity with the means I already have of getting my stuff in play. Worst case scenario, it falls well short of what I can achieve for getting something hefty online with something as elementary as Apprentice Necromancer (at least temporarily), Sidisi, Undead Vizier, or any of the mass reanimation spells I run.

*I wonder if it'd be a neat thing to run in a jank-tutor build with The Cauldron of Eternity? I guess at that point though you're probably looking at a commander that doesn't put your library into your graveyard, maybe The Scarab God or similar, but I just don't think it works well with the Queen.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Guys, something weird happened today.....I got time to actually get a game in! It's been like a month at least. Pretty frustrating, as I've still got some bits and pieces to add in post Legends, and after dismantling another deck (Vial Smasher the Fierce and Kraum, Ludevic's Opus had Academy Ruins which I've been tossing up for a spot here).

Nothing huge to report, other than of all the game attempts I've had recently (you know where you shuffle up and something happens to make you busy all of a sudden) I've had fairly lousy luck with curving and land drops, so the deck has been a little slow. It'd be nice to get something in here that gives me a little insurance for that, but there's not a lot that would really work stunningly (perhaps Sword of the Animist would be a good add since we're swinging regularly?).

I did win the only complete game I've played, but no really stunning plays came out of it, just shredding folks down with Shepherd of Rot and Varina, Lich Queen to keep my life total above water. Once again, Cryptbreaker was an absolute all star, being bare minimum a Phyrexian Arena you can block/attack with, and just maintaining a board presence enough to not want to swing at was sufficient to win.

Nothing flashy, but sometimes just getting over the line is enough, especially when its been a while between games.
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Post by Nabux » 3 years ago

Hello,

I think i have the same kind of problem than you, toc. I looking for ways to not be distanced by the green decks.

I tested Sword of the Animist, it was ok, because i run myself Field of the Dead and i had the chance to have both cards at the same time.

I think the main issue of my own list (atm) is the fact i rely on 6 drops or some 7-9 CMC combos to win the game (often including Tombstone Stairwell). The problem is that sometime i can have issues to reach a game state where i can use my big spells and do something else for my turn (or keep lands untap to protect my advantage)
My most expensives cards : Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant, Austere Command, Zombie Apocalypse, Command the Dreadhorde.
Thoose one are supposed to have a crucial impact but most of the time i can't play them in the same turn than my others spells, IMO some of them doesnt have enough impact to justify the slot.

Im going to change most of them for cards with a lower CMC (except the mass reanimation spells).
The more problematic card in this list is Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant which is IMO essencialy a combo card but often dont do much alone or when you are alredy behind, unless you can reanimate it cheaply somehow.

When i build the deck first, i added Planar Birth witch is definetly a jank card (but we have card selection). I cutted it cause i dont run much basics due to the Field of the Dead. But it can be awsome in certain situations. The basics are the lands you are the more succeptible to drop in the yard.

(Sorry, english is not my main language)

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
I tested Sword of the Animist, it was ok, because i run myself Field of the Dead and i had the chance to have both cards at the same time.
Do you think it'd be worth considering as a serious contender for the list? The problem is that I'm at a loss for how else to consistently ramp ahead of my curve, which is already fairly low. The options I have in Esper are:
- A suite of fetches, a Crucible of Worlds and similar. I just don't have that sort of money.
- Treasure synergies. I already have Smothering Tithe, and I did manage to pull a Hullbreacher from Legends (the sequel), but I had other plans for the merfolk. Revel in Riches is an option too, and potentially an alternate win condition, but it's higher up the curve than I'd like for my ramp.
- A lot more rocks. Seems ok, but the more I put in the less room I have for optimal choices to actually make the deck do what it does. Its great once it gets going, its just getting it off the ground that gets a bit tough from time to time.
Compared to these, the Sword seems reasonable, purely because its taking advantage of something the deck is already doing anyway, it thins further draws, and its more robust and less prone to disruption (treasures can be Vandalblasted, fetches can be Bojuka Boged, rocks can be Vandalblasted - basic lands are generally left alone. I think I might try to squeeze a copy in.
Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
I think the main issue of my own list (atm) is the fact i rely on 6 drops or some 7-9 CMC combos to win the game
I agree, but in general I think the inclusions (at least in my list) are worth having. I've only just picked up my Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant, so I can't speak for its worth outside of combo, but at least in theory I like it as a killswitch you can threaten the board with. That being said, I definitely would like to look at more options in terms of single target removal. I was tossing up removing Apprentice Necromancer a little while ago, but it actually turns out to be pretty damn great. The problem is there aren't many options that are lower on the curve and are zombies. There's Phyrexian Delver and Rot Hulk, but those don't lower the curve at all. I'd still add Rot Hulk, but it was so scarcely printed that actually tracking down a copy is absurdly difficult. Balthor the Defiled could be a possibility too, but outside of the command zone that's a one time thing. I'd prefer reanimation to be on a creature, but perhaps something like Victimize or Animate Dead could help keep costs per turn down. Dawn of the Dead is a thing too, but it isn't cheap, and you'll need a sac outlet to not lose your reanimation targets to exile.
Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
When i build the deck first, i added Planar Birth witch is definetly a jank card (but we have card selection). I cutted it cause i dont run much basics due to the Field of the Dead. But it can be awsome in certain situations. The basics are the lands you are the more succeptible to drop in the yard.
It does look neat, but I'm also in the habit of dumping non-permanent spells when they're not relevant to me, and currently in the list I don't have a way to recur them (I want Archaeomancer but with a zombie creature type), which I think is why Sword of the Animist appeals to me more. I'm planning on Dance of the Manse coming into the list again fairly shortly, so that'll help with recursion for it if needed.
Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
(Sorry, english is not my main language)
You did just fine, not a problem at all :)
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Post by Nimbaway » 3 years ago

I've decided to chuck Sword of the Animist into my deck, as keeping up with decks that ramp harder is definitely tough but going under the radar isn't always that bad either. Crucible of Worlds sounds tempting but it paints a target, much like Smothering Tithe also gets picked off on my tables. Sword of the Animist tends to be less of a threat and can pull more weight, it basically lets you cast Rampant Growth each turn and if they let your creature through its free.

Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant looks awkward at first, but on the board it does more than you think. Obviously, it comes with a potential boardwipe included, but that makes some opponents not want to kill it. So it can swing in surprisingly hard (making a good creature to wield Sword of the Animist) but also can persuade people from attacking you if you left it as a blocker.

Balthor the Defiled is tricky to rely on, mostly because as a creature its fragile with being just a 2/2 and opponents generally have several opportunities when it comes to reacting to his presence on the board. I run him in a different deck of mine and I never like straight out casting him, I generally just reanimate and then trigger his ability since its less mana intensive. If going for another reanimating source for this deck, I'd likely consider Phyrexian Reclamation myself. It might not be a creature itself, but is more repeatable and if an opponent throws removal at it, I'm generally not too sad. It's removal not spent on Insight or Kindred Discovery.

Haven't played with Dance of the Manse yet, but have added it to my deck after I picked up a copy of Eldrazi Monument. As far as cuts go, I've primarily focused on replacing cards that require double white, to help make the mana base feel less strained when it comes to demanding colored mana outside of black.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nimbaway wrote:
3 years ago
I've decided to chuck Sword of the Animist into my deck, as keeping up with decks that ramp harder is definitely tough but going under the radar isn't always that bad either. Crucible of Worlds sounds tempting but it paints a target, much like Smothering Tithe also gets picked off on my tables. Sword of the Animist tends to be less of a threat and can pull more weight, it basically lets you cast Rampant Growth each turn and if they let your creature through its free.
Thanks for the feedback here. I generally try to ping away at targets that are free and with combat evasion like menace and swampwalk I can more or less get someone through most of the time. Sword of the Animist got pretty expensive, tbh, so I'll probably pull it out of another deck rather than pick up another copy. It definitely deserves the price tag, great card, I just don't wanna pay that much.

I was hoping Nev would work that way. It's not the sort of card that'll bait removal, purely because it will take everything else with it. I like the decision paralysis that comes with that. That almost gives it a degree of combat evasion too - if you can't block without killing it, why would you block it?

Phyrexian Reclamation is fine, but I don't know if I like it massively here, purely because it doesn't actually help cheat us on CMCs. Its cheap and low to the ground, so in that sense its great, but the stuff I want to reanimate....well, I don't wanna cast it :P

In terms of cuts, I've got a few that've been hanging about for a long time. I picked some stuff up from my LGS, but missed an order, which did have some stuff for this list, so there's no point tweaking if I just have to come back to it later anyway. Definitely on the block is God-Eternal Oketra, and as far as anything else goes, I think I'll just cross that bridge when I come to it.

Also keeping a bit of an eye on spoilers for Kaldheim. There's some zombies in the set, so there's hope for stuff we can use, but I haven't seen anything that must be added yet. Rise of the Dread Marn is pretty nuts, not gonna lie, but Nev more or less does the same thing, so I'd rather have that effect on a creature. In fact, checking the cards, Nev counts token creatures too, so stands to scale much better.
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Post by Nimbaway » 3 years ago

Yeah, looked at my decklist again and with the casting clause Phyrexian Reclamation isn't that great unless it's to drop Gray Merchant of Asphodel every turn. Like said, the deck mostly looks for mass reanimation over incidental reanimation and this pretty much confirms that for me. That said, I do currently have Dread Return in my deck to bring back anything if really needed, it gets easily discarded with Varina and gives the option for flashing it back. Still not great but it's there for now.

Rise of the Dread Marn is on my radar as well, while Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant can technically do the same I generally don't see that part of Nev do a lot since we're not casting him at instant speed, making it an awkward comparison. With Rise you can place it into exile with foretell and if someone wipes the board it lets you instantly rebuild for 1 mana. It looks like a good include to me, especially if you are likely to face boardwipes.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nimbaway wrote:
3 years ago
Rise of the Dread Marn is on my radar as well, while Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant can technically do the same I generally don't see that part of Nev do a lot since we're not casting him at instant speed, making it an awkward comparison. With Rise you can place it into exile with foretell and if someone wipes the board it lets you instantly rebuild for 1 mana. It looks like a good include to me, especially if you are likely to face boardwipes.
Well, yeah, but there's a couple of ways to get Nev into play at instant speed that I currently run. Firstly, Apprentice Necromancer can be activated at instant speed. It'll grab him from the yard for a turn, and that'll give you tokens if needed. He will die EOT, but his 'disk' ability is a may, so you don't need to flatten everything. Secondly, Relentless Dead can reanimate him too, at instant speed if you have an instant sac outlet. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed can bring him back to play if he's already been played into a board wipe too, although that's less something we can intentionally orchestrate.
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Post by Nimbaway » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Well, yeah, but there's a couple of ways to get Nev into play at instant speed that I currently run. Firstly, Apprentice Necromancer can be activated at instant speed. It'll grab him from the yard for a turn, and that'll give you tokens if needed. He will die EOT, but his 'disk' ability is a may, so you don't need to flatten everything. Secondly, Relentless Dead can reanimate him too, at instant speed if you have an instant sac outlet. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed can bring him back to play if he's already been played into a board wipe too, although that's less something we can intentionally orchestrate.
I run Apprentice Necromancer and Relentless Dead as well, but so far I've yet to have Necromancer on the board aside from after a Living Death, so the ability on it hasn't been really used. Relentless has been mostly about it's first ability for me so far, plus with the mana situation as it is I'm not often leaving up enough mana to pay for something as big as Nev. And I currently don't have a Mikaeus. That said, even with Nev triggering, doubling up on the zombie tokens for 1 mana isn't bad.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Yeah, being honest, Relentless Dead isn't cheap for triggers. Its a possibility, but not on curve, that's for sure.
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Post by Nabux » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Field of the Dead
Do you think it'd be worth considering as a serious contender for the list?
I love this card and I think it fits perfectly in this kind of midrange deck. You need to have a board, and this is a free way to refill it.
Even with few budget fetches it works well.
I run it as one of my 2 utility colorless lands : I've never been stuck.
This is particulary great in hard games when you try to comeback.
But, to be honest, its not necessary at all, your list already has plenty of ways to comeback in a game with efficiency.

Rise of the Dread Marn seems great to me it's so cheap, i'm not sure it fit perfectly with the graveyard deck you have (Nev seems more synergistic)
But it sure can be your :
-Board wipe protection if you paid for foretell, people may hesitate to board wipe cause you'll have a crazy board and not them.
-Do some surprise instant speed moves.

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Nimbaway
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Post by Nimbaway » 3 years ago

I have to say the leaked card Haunting Voyage looks interesting to me.
Haunting Voyage
4BB
Sorcery
Choose a creature type. Return up to two creature cards of that type from your graveyard to the battlefield. If this spell was foretold, return all creature cards of that type from your graveyard to the battlefield instead.

Foretell 5BB (During your turn, you may pay 2 and exile this card from your hand face down. Cast it on a later turn for its foretell cost.)
It's more expensive compared to other mass reanimation spells, but Foretell removes it from our hand early on and pretty much protects it from discard/wheel effects. It's something I'm definitely interested in testing out in the deck.

As far as Field of the Dead goes, I'm always torn on it since I don't run that many fetches and generally prefer having colored lands. Right now I'm looking to see how Sword of the Animist will perform, before I'll be attempting it in my list.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
I love this card and I think it fits perfectly in this kind of midrange deck. You need to have a board, and this is a free way to refill it.
Even with few budget fetches it works well.
I run it as one of my 2 utility colorless lands : I've never been stuck.
This is particulary great in hard games when you try to comeback.
But, to be honest, its not necessary at all, your list already has plenty of ways to comeback in a game with efficiency.
Yeah, I just think Field shines in a deck that can reliably trigger landfall, and that is not this build. With a fetch/crucible package, maybe. As is, probably not. Granted, the new common snow duals are pretty tasty and give credence to the possibility of using Field here, but you're right - I don't feel like it's altogether necessary. I wouldn't fault anyone for using it, I just don't think this is the deck to really see it shine. Also, ETB tapped and only producing colorless really hurt this deck's tempo.
Nimbaway wrote:
3 years ago
I have to say the leaked card Haunting Voyage looks interesting to me.
Yeah, I'm tempted myself to be honest. It's a one-sided Patriarch's Bidding. Slightly more expensive, sure, but Foretell is a pretty neat mechanic. I do wonder how much it will bait removal though - I foretell a scenario where we use the mechanic and the gears start moving on the opposite side of the battlefield ('hmm, what would a zombie deck foretell? Rise of the Dread Marn? Haunting Voyage? Better hold up uu and some permission).

That's all speculation, though, it could be great. I just think unless I'm seeing a foretell dedicated deck, seeing it crop up in our format we're really only likely to see a few spells exiled with it that are probably worth holding permission up for. Between these two and Doomskar (great card btw) they do sort of telegraph a bit. On the other side, though, because its basically a spell on layby, you can cast when you feel the timing is right and the way is clear for it to resolve, so it might be fine. Pros and cons, it'll be interesting to see how the mechanic plays out.
Nabux wrote:
3 years ago
Rise of the Dread Marn seems great to me it's so cheap, i'm not sure it fit perfectly with the graveyard deck you have (Nev seems more synergistic)
But it sure can be your :
-Board wipe protection if you paid for foretell, people may hesitate to board wipe cause you'll have a crazy board and not them.
-Do some surprise instant speed moves.
I do like it, but as you say, I think Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant fits better. My only concern really is whether or not I actually have the room to squeeze it in.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
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