Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Id play dark ritual before lotus petal.

Tags:

User avatar
Reya
Posts: 153
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Reya » 2 years ago

Oh yes, sure! I forgot the good old one Dark Ritual!

T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Champion of the Perished, Isamaru Zombie, Savannah Lion zombie
T2: Underground Sea, Jeweled Lotus, Varina

:love:

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Reya wrote:
2 years ago
Oh yes, sure! I forgot the good old one Dark Ritual!

T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Champion of the Perished, Isamaru Zombie, Savannah Lion zombie
T2: Underground Sea, Jeweled Lotus, Varina

:love:
T3: Wrath, Scooop'emup! :)

There is already a 2/2 zombie for 1 you can play but I'm not quite there myself :P Diregraf Ghoul. It's close honestly. I think Dreadmalkin is better, since evasion goes a long way on a varina zombie.

I do think that, ultimately, Dark Ritual is better than land 37/38 for most of our builds, but I just can't quite bring myself to add even more fragility to my already very fragile deck. I play a lot less card advantage than most, so very vulnerable to getting empty handed.

User avatar
plaganegra
Jeff
Posts: 398
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Buffalo NY

Post by plaganegra » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Reya wrote:
2 years ago
Oh yes, sure! I forgot the good old one Dark Ritual!

T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Champion of the Perished, Isamaru Zombie, Savannah Lion zombie
T2: Underground Sea, Jeweled Lotus, Varina

:love:
T3: Wrath, Scooop'emup! :)

There is already a 2/2 zombie for 1 you can play but I'm not quite there myself :P Diregraf Ghoul. It's close honestly. I think Dreadmalkin is better, since evasion goes a long way on a varina zombie.

I do think that, ultimately, Dark Ritual is better than land 37/38 for most of our builds, but I just can't quite bring myself to add even more fragility to my already very fragile deck. I play a lot less card advantage than most, so very vulnerable to getting empty handed.
Cabal Ritual is pretty good too, better on average throughout the game, less fragile. Dark ritual is more explosive.

I think variance would prevent me from playing any ritual spell though. It is essentially all in on flooding the board which becomes a glass cannon and wastes a bunch of slots to make it consistent (multiple rituals). If you play something like yawgmoth's will and maybe they get a lot more useful. Rooftop storm too
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Beckett Brass, Chatterfang, Evelyn, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Breya, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat.
MTG since 2003

User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

Reya wrote:
2 years ago
And maybe it will be good to play Lotus Petal if we get a few more cheaps zombies for one mana. Maybe we can already try Lotus Petal ?
I would love to have a Lotus Petal for my Prosper deck.

User avatar
Eburon
Posts: 169
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Boone, NC

Post by Eburon » 2 years ago

Personally, I prefer Arcane Signet or a Talisman over Dark Ritual in my build. I favor consistency and smoothness over explosiveness.My deck builds incremental advantages over time. Explosiveness will possible put a bigger target on our back.

That said, if your deck is more combo-focused, than Rituals make a lot of sense.


User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

A number of lists that I have seen include Land Tax and those lists often include Weathered Wayfarer. The inclusion of these cards makes the availability of W on turn one more important that it would otherwise be (duh! right?).

The question is, how much warping of the heavily B mana-base should one tolerate to accommodate these cards? Two cards out of 99 aren't that likely to show up in the starting eight anyway, but it would sure suck if they did and no W was on hand to cast them.

Now it's evident that many (most? all?) Varina lists are going to want W on turn-two, so a fair number of W sources are a given, but some, otherwise very fine sources of W can't make W on turn one. And some mediocre cards fit that bill as well. Tainted Field is a bargain card that fits Varina very well, but it's not making W on turn one. I really like Fetid Heath, but it's not making W on turn one either. I don't much like Isolated Chapel but I've got one in the list for now.

The solutions aren't hard to imagine, but are they worth the downside? Mana Confluence or City of Brass could replace some of the BW sources but the thought of playing those cards rather gives we the willies. :) W fetches are another thought, Marsh Flats is a no-brainer and I've got Flooded Strand as well, but Windswept Heath and Arid Mesa don't hit very many cards in my list; I've only three fetch-able Plains - anyone have a spare Scrubland they don't really need? No? I didn't think so.

Hallowed Fountain probably isn't the worst idea in the world, but I don't think the Zombies are going to dig anything with "Hallowed" in the title that doesn't prefix it with "Un". :)

In my case, I'm leaving my Wayfarer in Dragonlord Dromoka's pile where he belongs, :) so the need to twist the mana-base to accommodate turn-one W is more troubling to me than it would be otherwise. Is it even worth it to run Land Tax?

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

pzbw7z wrote:
2 years ago
A number of lists that I have seen include Land Tax and those lists often include Weathered Wayfarer. The inclusion of these cards makes the availability of W on turn one more important that it would otherwise be (duh! right?).

The question is, how much warping of the heavily B mana-base should one tolerate to accommodate these cards? Two cards out of 99 aren't that likely to show up in the starting eight anyway, but it would sure suck if they did and no W was on hand to cast them.

Now it's evident that many (most? all?) Varina lists are going to want W on turn-two, so a fair number of W sources are a given, but some, otherwise very fine sources of W can't make W on turn one. And some mediocre cards fit that bill as well. Tainted Field is a bargain card that fits Varina very well, but it's not making W on turn one. I really like Fetid Heath, but it's not making W on turn one either. I don't much like Isolated Chapel but I've got one in the list for now.

The solutions aren't hard to imagine, but are they worth the downside? Mana Confluence or City of Brass could replace some of the BW sources but the thought of playing those cards rather gives we the willies. :) W fetches are another thought, Marsh Flats is a no-brainer and I've got Flooded Strand as well, but Windswept Heath and Arid Mesa don't hit very many cards in my list; I've only three fetch-able Plains - anyone have a spare Scrubland they don't really need? No? I didn't think so.

Hallowed Fountain probably isn't the worst idea in the world, but I don't think the Zombies are going to dig anything with "Hallowed" in the title that doesn't prefix it with "Un". :)

In my case, I'm leaving my Wayfarer in Dragonlord Dromoka's pile where he belongs, :) so the need to twist the mana-base to accommodate turn-one W is more troubling to me than it would be otherwise. Is it even worth it to run Land Tax?
Land Tax is perfectly fine as a turn 3 play as well, you really want to use it to make sure your hand is topped up for chucking stuff to Varina. Weathered Wayfarer can come out later too, it's so mana efficient you just slot it in around other plays.

It's definitely technically correct to play all the rainbow lands you can; I don't because it's annoying (the bookkeeping of paying life for taps). Since we're definitely a Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth deck that sometimes mitigates.

I do play Hallowed Fountain and Tundra personally, but mostly because I also run Tithe as a piece of my fixing suite, and because I 100% of the time want white on turn 4, and having every fetchland represent white or blue is useful.

Weathered Wayfarer reads: W, draw one of the best cardsin your deck. The only real reason not to play it in a deck with so many great utility lands that doesn't land ramp is if you actively don't want to play non-zombies, or if you can't get the fetchland+dual manabase going.

I'm not 100% sure wayfarer is playable without fetch+dual manabase (since fetches enable it, and duals help you have white) but I am 100% sure on Land Tax that if you have the ~10-ish basics to support it you should play it.

Land Tax basically is like Teferi's Ageless Insight for W a significant percentage of the time with Varina; you get 3 lands, chuck them to Varina, and now she's positive card advantage.

User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

@pokken
Thanks for the reply! There are excellent points to consider.

I'm currently on only eight basics and I still have to make room for Field of the Dead and, eventually, Unholy Grotto. :thinking:

User avatar
Reya
Posts: 153
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Reya » 2 years ago

As pokken said. Having white at any stage of the game is really easy with a good mana base. (Mine is 3 bilands, 3 shock land, 8 fetches, Confluence, tower). I can only remember one game where I was color screwed but it's just bad variance.

User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

I feel that I have ample W sources but a few of them won't produce W on turn one due to various restrictions. It's something I've decided to accept for now but I may revisit it.

Falkenbach
Posts: 118
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Falkenbach » 2 years ago

I switched my mana base arround to be able to get white mana on turn one alot more often. First land to get with wayfarer for me would always be Urborg if its early game so you get fixed for the deck mostly running on black mana. on turn two i think I need white mana more often to drop a two drop zombie than blue mana.

Speaking of two drop blue mana zombies:
Out of Bladestitched Skaab vs Lazotep Chancellor , I run the skaab now since he has the thoughness to be able to keep the Varina Engine rolling and a buff also might seem ok'ish. The Lazotep's ability only comes on turn 5, when I would have spare mana.. (no other discard outlets anymore). Anyone runs the Lazotep and used his ability often, or does it end up just being a 1/3 vanilla creature?

User avatar
Eburon
Posts: 169
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Boone, NC

Post by Eburon » 2 years ago

ChocoDude wrote:
2 years ago
Would you be willing to share your latest decklist @Eburon ?
I am currently figuring that out. I haven't update since before Midnight Hunt, but working on that.

User avatar
Eburon
Posts: 169
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Boone, NC

Post by Eburon » 2 years ago

Falkenbach wrote:
2 years ago
I switched my mana base arround to be able to get white mana on turn one alot more often. First land to get with wayfarer for me would always be Urborg if its early game so you get fixed for the deck mostly running on black mana. on turn two i think I need white mana more often to drop a two drop zombie than blue mana.

Speaking of two drop blue mana zombies:
Out of Bladestitched Skaab vs Lazotep Chancellor , I run the skaab now since he has the thoughness to be able to keep the Varina Engine rolling and a buff also might seem ok'ish. The Lazotep's ability only comes on turn 5, when I would have spare mana.. (no other discard outlets anymore). Anyone runs the Lazotep and used his ability often, or does it end up just being a 1/3 vanilla creature?
The Skaab improves your combat (buffs can help get crucial mana through). That said, I have abused Lazotep with a sac outlet (Phyrexian Altar) before. Since you can respond to each trigger individually, I was able to trigger on of my drainers with each Varina trigger (Pay 1 for trigger 1, get zombie army, sac zombie army to Altar to pay for trigger 2, rinse and repeat).

User avatar
Eburon
Posts: 169
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Boone, NC

Post by Eburon » 2 years ago

Question on our manabase and possibly ramp. I know there is always a debate about using signets/talismans vs using wayfarer/land tax/... As I am trying to tune my list, I am thinking of whether I wanted to stick with signets, or switch to the wayfarer package. A major upgrade will come as I have acquired several fetches to improve the manabase. I would love to get your take on what your experiences are with it.

Specifically, I am also looking for some feedback on Crypt of Agadeem (note: I really dislike lands that entered tapped).

Arebennian
Posts: 100
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Arebennian » 2 years ago

Interesting gameplay video with combo finish from the Varina player:


User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Falkenbach wrote:
2 years ago
Anyone runs the Lazotep and used his ability often, or does it end up just being a 1/3 vanilla creature?
The Lazotep Chancellor combo with Ashnod's Altar and a discard outlet is pretty efficient (with either Zombie Infestation or Putrid Imp). If you're not running at least a couple free discard outlets I wouldn't bother personally. Requires Skullclamp or Kindred Discovery or some other draw enabler.

You can do some pretty crazy stuff with Varina, Lich Queen turns with altars and chancellor which *might* be good enough.
Eburon wrote:
2 years ago
Question on our manabase and possibly ramp. I know there is always a debate about using signets/talismans vs using wayfarer/land tax/... As I am trying to tune my list, I am thinking of whether I wanted to stick with signets, or switch to the wayfarer package. A major upgrade will come as I have acquired several fetches to improve the manabase. I would love to get your take on what your experiences are with it.

Specifically, I am also looking for some feedback on Crypt of Agadeem (note: I really dislike lands that entered tapped).
Crypt is a new addition for me, but I think it's likely to be pretty good.

Overall, the Weathered Wayfarer + Cabal Coffers / Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx package (with Expedition Map) has been quite solid for me. My deck has a whole pile of shenanigans around reusing fetchlands, always having lands to trigger Field of the Dead, etc., however.

I can definitely see why people might want to run some signets, just not really my jam :)
Arebennian wrote:
2 years ago
Interesting gameplay video with combo finish from the Varina player:


The jeweled lotus line was...something :)

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

And apparently I need to add Liliana, Untouched by Death :) woof.

Arebennian
Posts: 100
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Arebennian » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
And apparently I need to add Liliana, Untouched by Death :) woof.
Thought you would like the combo finish...

Yeah, it provides a similar payoff to Haakon, Stromgald Scourge but for all the creature in your deck. Can't really work it into an intuition package easily makes it a bit of an issue.

But, I mean, it does a pretty good impression of Yawgmoth's Will for 1 more mana.

In reality, it just goes to show the power of Phyrexian Altar. Without it on the battlefield, he doesn't draw into Liliana, Untouched by Death and he doesn't combo with her either.

User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
And apparently I need to add Liliana, Untouched by Death :) woof.
She's in my list. I didn't watch the video but she gets on well with Shambling Ghast in particular.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Yea lily, shambling ghast and altar is ggs. Pretty nice :) I just missed her in the deluge of other planeswalkers. It's nice that either altar enables that, or actually any free sac outlet :) sick.

Makes a good case for Universal Automaton as a combo engine with Ashnod's Altar :)

User avatar
pzbw7z
Posts: 690
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pzbw7z » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Yea lily, shambling ghast and altar is ggs. Pretty nice :) I just missed her in the deluge of other planeswalkers. It's nice that either altar enables that, or actually any free sac outlet :) sick.

Makes a good case for Universal Automaton as a combo engine with Ashnod's Altar :)
Blasting Station would be a hoot here. Altar of Dementia would work too.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3984
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Nice to see some good footage of Varina in action. I've been watching a ton of Spike Feeders lately and obviously she just doesn't feature (except for the one episode Jan plays a mill build). The gameplay is super tight obviously which is what I'm there for, but it'd be nice to see commanders I'm actually interested in. Thats cedh though, partners galore and the stars of the format are thoracle and hulk.

Anyway yeah Lili is pretty nice. I had her in my build back a bit when my curve was higher, so she didn't really do a ton. With a lower curve and a lot more one drops, that's a different story. I did actually get rid of my copy, but man I think if you're that low to the ground its worth picking up. I actually think she's a lot better than RooftopStorm. Storm goes off with Gravecrawler, sure, Lili has a basement for value of value from the yard for a turn, or dig yourself out of a hole, and the ceiling is going infinite pretty easily. Add in some of the new tech like HeadlessRider or Wilhelt and you got yourself a stew, baby. You'll end the game long before you need to go infinite.

Now I kinda wanna pick her back up tbh.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6279
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I got one game in tonight, it was pretty uneventful, fighting way out of my weight class. I had a great opener of multiple 2-drops including Gravecrawler into Phyrexian Ghoul and Phyrexian Altar and Sevinne's Reclamation in hand but...Urza had a Counterspell on a Isochron Scepter.

I think I need to just not bring this out vs. those decks, it's way too much power level wise.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Decklists”