4 Color - Zada, Hedron Grinder

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Ulka
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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

I will type more on this on a later date but I wanted to mess around with a 4 color Zada, Hedron Grinder style deck where we use mass untap spells that draw us cards and use mana dorks to basically chain cantrip spells to kill players. I'd love any feedback anyone has.
General Zada, Hedron Grinder

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Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

No Ink-Treader Nephilim seems like a pretty glaring omission. I've played against an Ink-Treader deck before, and it is.... incredibly degenerate.

Beyond that... Living Plane and other ways to animate your lands may be worth consideration, since they make all your Revitalize effects generate even more mana.

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Post by weltkrieg » 3 years ago

I like kenrith, but I think for this style of deck that General Tazri would make a much better commander. That is basically having a zada in your command zone.

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

I honestly forgot General Tazri existed. It would allow for Harabaz Druid to be used as a dork over one of the slivers. Honestly I use kenerith for the haste and trample ability but I might swap that over.

I figured someone would mention Ink-Treader Nephilim. I excluded it for one reason. It has too much blowback potential.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

There are a couple of generally good cards here which I think can usually be dropped for a higher density of targeted cantrips. Specifically, I'm not sure that Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin is better than Spark of Creativity, Aggressive Urge or Irresistible Prey. You also have enough sources of spells which increase toughness that Rile could be a safe inclusion here.

I'm not sure that Wildsize is worth its CMC here compared to other cantrip options. I also think that Temur Battle Rage is probably worse in slot compared to Boros Charm, which has a solid backup role against removal.

I'm personally working on a ur Zada build to make use of Orvar, the All-Form, who copies creatures like Young Pyromancer to go extremely wide. Notably, Orvar is also an ally, so there's some synergy with Tazri.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

I built a The Locust God deck around zada once and it was a lot of fun. I plan on building a kykar list around zada eventually.

If you don't go with Tazri, I think tutors are key. I used Goblin Matron and Goblin Recruiter iirc, and Sarkhan's Triumph for Mirrorwing Dragon.

I never used them myself, but I've since thought Precursor Golem and/or effects like Quasiduplicate would be fun and explosive in a Radiate tribal build.
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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

Okay I'm super interested in Orvar, the All-Form in the list. I think It could be super interesting. Copying seems solid and could provide some really fun situations. Sure, it doesn't work the best with Zada out but it turns other cards into crazy engines. So I never realized Spark of Creativity was a card so i have one ordered and once its here I'll update the list.

The idea of adding a Matron and Recruiter seem feasible actually. I could add 1-2 more utility goblins to make them worth it but given I decided to shift the commander to General Tazri I'd love to have a few more tutors for Zada.

So my paperlist is very different from this list and I will post a larger update on the decklist once I get my Kaldheim and spare cards for this deck in.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

For redundancy in the goblin tutor department, Beetleback Chief is a smooth curve out after Goblin Matron and gets you going wide, which then sets you up for zada + cantrip on the next turn. Reckless Bushwhacker is one I've relied on for the haste + pump in the past (bonus points for ally creature type). If you lean more heavily on recruiter then you can build ridiculous packages and stack em up with Conspicuous Snoop on top.

You or @Crazy Monkey are going to have to help me understand Orvar, the All-Form's appeal here though. . . it's a total non-bo with zada right? I mean, I guess you can use it to spit out an extra Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor before trying to really go off, but why not rather just run Quasiduplicate and/or Cackling Counterpart to target Zada and copy *all* your stuff sans legends instead of just one thing? I see orvar as kind of another Beamsplitter Mage, which got me all excited and thinking about zada but just doesn't get there.
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Orvar, the All-Form doesn't have direct use with Zada, Hedron Grinder, but is a method to make use of the same base cards. For example, if there is only one mana dork here, then Orvar will out perform by increasing the number of targets to untap before going for a mass cantrip.

With Tazri, it may be better to find Orvar first, so that a targeted spell can then copy Tazri to find Zada to start mass untaps. It's similar to beetleback chief, but making token manadorks instead.

In my own deck, led by Krark+Sakashima, I have been casting most spells at copying creatures, then saving a cantrip for mass draw. The copy spells are great targeting Zada, but I dropped a lot of other sources of creatures and rituals because Orvar makes expedite another Krark and twiddle is net mana positive.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
With Tazri, it may be better to find Orvar first, so that a targeted spell can then copy Tazri to find Zada to start mass untaps. It's similar to beetleback chief, but making token manadorks instead.

In my own deck, led by Krark+Sakashima, I have been casting most spells at copying creatures, then saving a cantrip for mass draw. The copy spells are great targeting Zada, but I dropped a lot of other sources of creatures and rituals because Orvar makes expedite another Krark and twiddle is net mana positive.
This makes sense, especially with a dork/untap gameplan. I guess I wasn't thinking about it from the tazri, ally, and Harabaz Druid angle.
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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

So with my cards in, here is my updated list. I've gotten 5 games in and in 3 of those games I went off on turn 5, one on turn 6 and lost 1 game due to a counterspell at the right time. Since then I've added counter magic and floodout mana creation with the Chrome Mox addition.

General Zada, Hedron Grinder

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Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

I wanted to also post about some cards I'm considering and I never thought I'd say this but: Stony Strength and Sudden Spinnerets. They both aren't in the list as I don't have a copy of either and I haven't prepped 20 copies of a reach counter yet. Realistically they will replace spidery grasp, the random card for a old podcast build the deck recording I did that lead to this nonsense and Spellskite.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

I really like the addition of Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, that's some cool tech. I've tried to use awaken in decks like this without success, but Dar just turns all your cantrips into animate lands. Especially cool because you can stack your triggers with Zada in either order, to have Zada copy the spell for the now-animated land and float more mana or cards.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

Yea it also is a solid ally in case I Orvar General Tazri a few times. I should note the mana base is a bit wonky and I think I have a slightly different mana in paper vs on the list here but I didn't feel like checking it yesterday after class so I will update that later.

Side note: I love Dar with the Untap effects I run as these untap effects net like 7+ mana on average.


Another card I started to look into is Elvish Spirit Guide but it is not a card I own so currently it's in the theoretical cards Im considering but will likely find a place in the list for.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

ooh boy I think we might be getting lots of goodies for this deck from strixhaven. So far I already have 2-3 cards Im looking at.

Quandrix Apprentice: This will help us ensure land drops which also means I might be able to drop to 32 if I was to add him.

Clever Lumimancer: while its probably not going to make the cut, a double prowess effect seems incredibly strong and may allow for an early takeout of a player.

Sudden Breakthrough: the card that is making me make a post. Holy crap this card is absolutely bonkers for us. The treasure it generates alone should be able to net us a win in most cases as it will allow us to churn a victory out nice and quickly. However the +2/+0 and first strike also make it also make our threats that much more fearsome which is always appreciated.



I do want to note how excited I am for the Mystical Archive Defiant Strike and Snakeskin Veil as both arts are amazing and snakeskin honestly could be in this list.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

these past few days have given some solid spoilers.

Leonin Lightscribe: This will cut any chance of Clever Lumimancer ever making the deck but I'm glad it did. This gives us another form of a kill similar to Ascendancy or Defiance while being a low costed body. Even better with Zada, this explodes very fast even with just 1 other creature and becomes as good as Defiance. Im very excited to find space for this in the list. It will likely see Rattleclaw Mystic get cut.

Mavinda, Students' Advocate: Our first recursion engine. This would allow me to start chaining on other's turns allowing me to dig for the combo kills.

Charge Through: Another target cantrip! I am so excited for this. I will be dropping Mutagenic Growth for this as the cantrip is more important than the free pump even though the free pump has led to kills.


I'm honestly so excited for this set and the upgrades I can make to this deck.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

Holy moly I was not expecting Black to get any worth spells for this deck that would make me consider adding black to the list. Professor Onyx is too expensive and wasn't worth it but today of course they spoiled Sedgemoor Witch which is a great improvement to talrand as a a token generator as it's less mana. Now I have to consider if adding 2-3 sources of black is worth it.

I don't get too much for adding black I get a wisps spell which is nice but nothong else so we will see if I decide to add it.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Moonlighter » 3 years ago

Here's my decklist. I'm likely to change it up pretty hard into a tribal tribal goofpile. I definitely think you're right that Sedgemoor Witch is super solid. Only thing I think you're missing having a great time on is Fiery Gambit. With Zada you can just keep flipping until you lose. The card is hilarious when you have a pile of creatures. With Tazri, half the time I don't bother with Zada, I just grab Sea Gate Oracle or Harabaz Druid, and go off that way.
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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Moonlighter thanks for the reply. Yea our lists differ a bit I think yours would be fun if I wanted to go more the ally route rather than the storm route.

The changes I'm going to be making:

Shelter >> Sedgemoor Witch: Im dropping a cantrip for a way to make better tokens. While the black mana is harder to make, I plan to add in 2 black sources; Overgrown Tomb & Blood Crypt.

Rattleclaw Mystic >>Leonin Lightscribe: Swapping out a dork for a win con. It's a pretty easy swap imo here.

Spellskite >> Mavinda, Students' Advocate: Here is our recursion. I am losing out on some of my protection but I feel like the ability to continue the storm is worth the risk.

1 Land >> Quandrix Apprentice: I'm swapping out a land for a way to dig lands out.

Mutagenic Growth >> Sudden Breakthrough: Switching this out to better create mana and continue the storm.

Ornamental Courage >> Swan Song: I want another counterspell to protect the kill and i think this untapper can go for now.

Spidery Grasp >> Stony Strength: Dropping the Cmc of my untappers

Aim High >> Charge Through: Dropping an untapper that a bit too expensive to add the best new cantrip spell.

Talrand, Sky Summoner >> Goldspan Dragon: Swapping out a token maker for a different type of token maker.

Sunforger >> Elvish Spirit Guide: Switching out utility artifact for a way to create fast mana.

Also my lands got overhauled so I will be posted an updated list.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

So Modern Horizons 2 brought us some possible toys:

Blacksmith's Skill: A super great way to protect against targeted removal and boardwipes. I love this and it is going to be a huge part of the deck I think in the future.

Dragon's Rage Channeler: this card provides great card selection similar to Burning Prophet but I don't think I will include it due to I don't have a ton of graveyard based shenanigans and the power growth is limited.

Ignoble Hierarch: Holy crap this card was needed! I love mana dorks in this deck and one that generates red is super needed and it should help us go even faster.

Overal I'm super happy with this inclusions this set and I can't wait to see where the deck will go from here.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens


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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Thanks for the reminder to fix that!!!
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

well its time for me to finally get around to edits:

I ended up cutting Spark of Creativity for Ignoble Hierarch. While Spark can open up a game that otherwise would have to grind for a bit I found it often win-more and as such it was cut for our new dork as i'd rather open up our mana faster if able.

I also ended up adding Blacksmith's Skill over Guided Strike. I'm ending up cutting the strike as while I need the cantrips I need protection for the combo more and dropping from 18 to 17 cantrip spells doesn't drop my win percentages much while having another counterspell so to speak increase my win rate a ton.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Ulka » 2 years ago

Oh man am I hyped for Innistrad now with Might of the Old Ways as a card. I should always have 3 different powers if I'm trying to storm off and this just makes it so they all grow larger and become even more threatening.

That said adventures was a forgettable set for most. The only cards that have been in consideration have been:
Bull's Strength and Kick in the Door. While Kick in the door could be fun to power through some dungeons, I think it will fall flat in reality. Bull's Strength is intriguing mostly for the ability to untap and provide trample. I think it will make its way into the list on the next edit.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

On topic, have you had a chance to try fitting Bull's Strength in here yet? I was somewhat surprised it didn't make the initial cut on release, but it does make sense based on mana cost. I am also somewhat curious on your experience with Leonin Lightscribe and Sudden Breakthrough. I've been starting to get a brainworm for 3 color Zada and those are in my maybe pile.

Off topic, I was updating my Zada thread and realized that my mention of multicolor Zada support does not yet include a link to this thread. Are you alright with me adding that link and mention?
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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