Kozilek 1.0 - How to Lose Friends and Annihilate People

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Rasputin101
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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

... So Kaldheim is a bit of a disappointing wash for us.

Apart from maybe Weathered Runestone as a cheaper alternative to Grafdigger's Cage! Less dollar in the deck!
Or run both if you hit those kinds of decks a lot

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Post by Runnin » 3 years ago

Well, in the mean time while there's not too many hot colourless cards you can get, I kinda bid on a foil Forsaken Monument and won! ^^'
I guess I now got two copies so it ain't that bad.

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Post by Runnin » 3 years ago

Mhm! More cards we can get in the old brown frame.

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

That's gonna shien up beautifully!
I really like it in Japanese! (Or Korean... Or Chinese... I'm bad at this)

Can really lean further into that mono brown vibe!

Reprint of cloud key too which helps bat the price down a bit. I think the price was creeping up a bit since future sight!

Are we gonna see any new cards in this set?
I hadn't started playing on the original time spiral but I know Planar chaor and future sight had original cards. Hoping for some new toys!

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Post by Runnin » 3 years ago

!!!!

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!!!

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

Hi, I am very curious about this Eldrazi deck, I have seen many tappedouts in different sites and this seems to be the best. I was wondering if you could answer me a few questions.
Cristian

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
Hi, I am very curious about this Eldrazi deck, I have seen many tappedouts in different sites and this seems to be the best. I was wondering if you could answer me a few questions.
Cristian
Hey, thanks for posting and for the compliment on the primer!

Ask away!

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Post by BHC » 3 years ago

Hey, I've been planning to build a kozilek deck cause I really like him (in fact that's how I found this forum, I messaged a guy on reddit and he linked me this thread). This is a great thread, I've read all the way through a lot of great info and discussion in here. I've built my Kozi deck, I wanted to focus less on combo'ing off and more a big fat eldrazi (tribal?) deck. The power level I'm playing with is lower and I don't want to be oppressive, plus I just like the idea of a big ol' board of Eldrazi, how fun. I've used your deck as a basis for my mana and rocks + some utility but I've tried to cut the power back some with less emphasis on going infinite.

Kozilek tribal

Commander (1)

Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Sorcery (1)

Approximate Total Cost:


A few questions, I've got one slot left and I'm worried I'm a little short on creatures, got any you think would slot in well, maybe Desolation Twin or Bane of Bala Ged? Edit: I just realized I forgot Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger so that seems like a pretty solid bet to drop in over those other two. As far as tutoring creatures I have Planar Bridge which is expensive but I have a lot of big things to search for so it may be worth, are there other ways you would recommend to get some of my big fatties out of my deck and onto the field?

Should I be worried about the card draw crapping out on this deck? I suppose there aren't many efficient options and kozilek gets you 4 so that should help juice your hand. I could put some more in if need be.

How many lands would you recommend? I'm running 33 but some of them are strictly utility unless urborg or similar hits the board. I do have a lot of ramp, 22 artifacts although I'm suspicious about Kyren Toy being good.

Any other suggestions you have, or particular card I'm missing that you think is a big whiff?

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
Hi, I am very curious about this Eldrazi deck, I have seen many tappedouts in different sites and this seems to be the best. I was wondering if you could answer me a few questions.
Cristian
Hey, thanks for posting and for the compliment on the primer!

Ask away!

perfect :)
1) if you had to say what the percentage was for it to run well, what number would you choose?

2) seeing it I saw that commander like planeswalkers have little counter protection

3) I understood little from the description what was the advantage of having the commander destroyed if you then always have to pay 2 more mana

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

BHC wrote:
3 years ago
A few questions, I've got one slot left and I'm worried I'm a little short on creatures, got any you think would slot in well, maybe Desolation Twin or Bane of Bala Ged? Edit: I just realized I forgot Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger so that seems like a pretty solid bet to drop in over those other two. As far as tutoring creatures I have Planar Bridge which is expensive but I have a lot of big things to search for so it may be worth, are there other ways you would recommend to get some of my big fatties out of my deck and onto the field?

Should I be worried about the card draw crapping out on this deck? I suppose there aren't many efficient options and kozilek gets you 4 so that should help juice your hand. I could put some more in if need be.

How many lands would you recommend? I'm running 33 but some of them are strictly utility unless urborg or similar hits the board. I do have a lot of ramp, 22 artifacts although I'm suspicious about Kyren Toy being good.

Any other suggestions you have, or particular card I'm missing that you think is a big whiff?
I had noticed the lack of Newlamog so yeah, get him in there.
Not sure if you play with or without the banned list but Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is actually banned in commander, otherwise she'd be in my list 100%
How about Conduit of Ruin? It'll get you steel hellkite to wreck a token deck or Kozilek, the Great Distortion if you need to protect a play.
Pretty solid as you have more creatures than me and can capitalise on that discount on your first creature spell per turn.
I like Bane of Bala Ged, good way to get rid of a few bits on an opponent's field.

I think where you're running less combo you perhaps need a bit more card draw but it looks like you've taken out the pieces I use for infinite draw (which makes sense).
You also need to bear in mind that you're going to be drawing large creatures more which are going to slow down the ramping plan.
Yes there's a lot of ramp but with less of the utility pieces in there it's going to be harder to make each card count and the strategy is going to be more watered down.
Works for you in that you're looking at less combo but against you as you're going to see less consistency.
You could always include more sac effects for Kozilek to draw 4, things like Phyrexian Altar or Helm of Possession?

Your land count seems fine to me, we need less than the average because we've got more rocks. I've won plenty of games on two lands before. I'd only adjust if it becomes a problem!

I get asked about Kyren Toy quite a bit. Any new eyes to the deck always pick that out.
Yes it's a 3 for 1 but you can use it to bank mana if you're over on any of your turns. A lot of people miss that it says X colourless plus 1 (remove 0 counters, get 1 mana).

The only card in there that I think you're going to cut after playtesting would be Endbringer but if you're using it simply to up your card draw then leave it in there.
It can net you three cards for 6 mana over your opponents' turns.

Are you looking to remove the infinite combo completely or just cut way back? I notice you still have a few in there
Last edited by Rasputin101 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
Hi, I am very curious about this Eldrazi deck, I have seen many tappedouts in different sites and this seems to be the best. I was wondering if you could answer me a few questions.
Cristian
Hey, thanks for posting and for the compliment on the primer!

Ask away!

perfect :)
1) if you had to say what the percentage was for it to run well, what number would you choose?

2) seeing it I saw that commander like planeswalkers have little counter protection

3) I understood little from the description what was the advantage of having the commander destroyed if you then always have to pay 2 more mana
If I had to put a percentage down I'd say you'd need around 60% of the deck intact IF we're ignoring lands. You could run the lands as all wastes and see the deck function well. You'd just miss out on the utility advantage of colourless.
Try and keep the core of the mana producing artifacts in place. For some people who are new to the game Grim Monoliths and Mana Crypts aren't viable so they can be subbed out for other rocks. My list is just what I consider to be the best combination.

The commander does have very little counter protection but that's more down to colourless having little to no counter protection.
The advantage of kozilek is that the draw is on cast so even if he gets countered, you get the four cards.

Kozilek getting destroyed does mean the next cast costs 2 more but each time you net 2 cards. Ideally, a land and a mana rock in there so you can cast him again and again for more and more cards. Combine that with getting in an attack here and there you can easily out tempo the table.

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Post by BHC » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago


I had noticed the lack of Newlamog so yeah, get him in there.
Not sure if you play with or without the banned list but Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is actually banned in commander, otherwise she'd be in my list 100%
How about Conduit of Ruin? It'll get you steel hellkite to wreck a token deck or Kozilek, the Great Distortion if you need to protect a play.
Pretty solid as you have more creatures than me and can capitalise on that discount on your first creature spell per turn.
I like Bane of Bala Ged, good way to get rid of a few bits on an opponent's field.
Bane a Bala Ged just has annihilator 2 right? Am I reading it right? Would you cut something to put that in? As far as original Emrakul it's one of those cards that should be banned as a commander not in the 99 so I just mention that I'm running it, if someone has a problem I'll swap something else in.
Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago


The only card in there that I think you're going to cut after playtesting would be Endbringer but if you're using it simply to up your card draw then leave it in there.
It can net you three cards for 6 mana over your opponents' turns.
Yeah Endbringer seemed to be a good on-theme card draw which I felt like I needed more of. I'm not sure what else I would cut to put in more card draw.

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Are you looking to remove the infinite combo completely or just cut way back? I notice you still have a few in there

Yeah, there's no hard and fast rule in my group but it's kind of like "don't build a deck to combo out but if you happen to do so that's no problem". So the pieces I left in seemed like they were good on their own and if they end up getting me a lot of mana that's ok. Everything I left seemed to have a lot value on its own.

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago


Hey, thanks for posting and for the compliment on the primer!

Ask away!

perfect :)
1) if you had to say what the percentage was for it to run well, what number would you choose?

2) seeing it I saw that commander like planeswalkers have little counter protection

3) I understood little from the description what was the advantage of having the commander destroyed if you then always have to pay 2 more mana
If I had to put a percentage down I'd say you'd need around 60% of the deck intact IF we're ignoring lands. You could run the lands as all wastes and see the deck function well. You'd just miss out on the utility advantage of colourless.
Try and keep the core of the mana producing artifacts in place. For some people who are new to the game Grim Monoliths and Mana Crypts aren't viable so they can be subbed out for other rocks. My list is just what I consider to be the best combination.

The commander does have very little counter protection but that's more down to colourless having little to no counter protection.
The advantage of kozilek is that the draw is on cast so even if he gets countered, you get the four cards.

Kozilek getting destroyed does mean the next cast costs 2 more but each time you net 2 cards. Ideally, a land and a mana rock in there so you can cast him again and again for more and more cards. Combine that with getting in an attack here and there you can easily out tempo the table.


I just wanted to understand, like, against decks like blue mono, which always have control over the game how you plan to play it ...

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

BHC wrote:
3 years ago
Bane a Bala Ged just has annihilator 2 right? Am I reading it right? Would you cut something to put that in? As far as original Emrakul it's one of those cards that should be banned as a commander not in the 99 so I just mention that I'm running it, if someone has a problem I'll swap something else in.
Yeah, Bane of Bala Ged is basically annihilator 2. Technically slightly better as they're exiled so gets around Sigardaesque effects.
Even in the 99 Emrakul can be used for infinite turns with a sac outlet and draw engine but I suppose at that point you've pretty much ended the game anyway.
Getting lost in combo again!
BHC wrote:
3 years ago
Yeah Endbringer seemed to be a good on-theme card draw which I felt like I needed more of. I'm not sure what else I would cut to put in more card draw.
I think maybe adding Sensei's Divining Top in with your Scroll Rack could help balance out the draws in the early game and prevent the handful of creatures at the wrong time, plus they're really good with cards like Kozilek and any other shuffle effects. Plus an extra few cards off the top with a Mystic Forge could be useful.

I used to run Mind's Eye way back when before the pace of the deck picked up and it was pretty solid in a slower meta.
Given that we end up with such a copious amount of mana it ends up being pretty good value of the cost to cast.

Have you considered cards like Foundry Inspector and Lodestone Golem
BHC wrote:
3 years ago
Yeah, there's no hard and fast rule in my group but it's kind of like "don't build a deck to combo out but if you happen to do so that's no problem". So the pieces I left in seemed like they were good on their own and if they end up getting me a lot of mana that's ok. Everything I left seemed to have a lot value on its own.
The thing I love about the combo in this deck is that none of them actually win the game, or even do much of anything without a second combo to run alongside (apart fromMetalworker/Staff of Domination). Sometime I just make infinite mana and can't finish the job. Sometimes I've destroyed all opponents permanents with no cards in hand.
I think the best thing about the combo in this deck is that it's right there in front of you. Nothing is done off of instants and it doesn't necessarily win 'out of nowhere'. I cast artifact, pass priority. I cast artifact, pass priority etc.

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
I just wanted to understand, like, against decks like blue mono, which always have control over the game how you plan to play it ...
If the blue player has their lockdown in full flow it's hard to get around if they're just hellbent on preventing you from playing the game then there's not a whole lot you can do.
If they've got the whole table locked out then there's not really a whole lot anyone can do if no one can resolve a spell.

The key is tempo. Play faster than they do and cripple them early. Don't keep hands full of utility and just aim for a fast Kozilek cast. Restock the hand and continue the pace.
If it's beneficial, let the other players know you need to take out the control player before they lock the game out.

If you can keep a board state of artifacts intact and all they're doing is countering Kozilek then let them.
For every one card they cast, you draw four.

Play cards like Trinisphere and Mana Web, or Lodestone Golem and Sphere of Resistance to make it less viable for them to actually play the counters
I actually used to run Null Brooch before I learnt to just play fast!

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
I just wanted to understand, like, against decks like blue mono, which always have control over the game how you plan to play it ...
If the blue player has their lockdown in full flow it's hard to get around if they're just hellbent on preventing you from playing the game then there's not a whole lot you can do.
If they've got the whole table locked out then there's not really a whole lot anyone can do if no one can resolve a spell.

The key is tempo. Play faster than they do and cripple them early. Don't keep hands full of utility and just aim for a fast Kozilek cast. Restock the hand and continue the pace.
If it's beneficial, let the other players know you need to take out the control player before they lock the game out.

If you can keep a board state of artifacts intact and all they're doing is countering Kozilek then let them.
For every one card they cast, you draw four.

Play cards like Trinisphere and Mana Web, or Lodestone Golem and Sphere of Resistance to make it less viable for them to actually play the counters
I actually used to run Null Brooch before I learnt to just play fast!



o my god xD, there are no such cards in your deck list as Trinsphere, lodestone Golem or sphere of resistance.
I'm doing the same deck as your list xD just to understand how to play it xD.......
so you take me by surprise xD

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
o my god xD, there are no such cards in your deck list as Trinsphere, lodestone Golem or sphere of resistance.
I'm doing the same deck as your list xD just to understand how to play it xD.......
so you take me by surprise xD
Not in the list no, I typically don't need that level of board control.
But then I don't normally sit down opposite mono blue control very regularly to need that level either.
I've mentioned those cards in the 'Meta Got You Down?' section near the bottom where I list a few other cards that are handy to have on hand if you're playing within those environments where you may need cards outside of my 100 in the main deck list

The best I can do is a deck that works for me within the metas I play but feel free to experiment and tweek the deck to how you want to play it!

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago
Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
o my god xD, there are no such cards in your deck list as Trinsphere, lodestone Golem or sphere of resistance.
I'm doing the same deck as your list xD just to understand how to play it xD.......
so you take me by surprise xD
Not in the list no, I typically don't need that level of board control.
But then I don't normally sit down opposite mono blue control very regularly to need that level either.
I've mentioned those cards in the 'Meta Got You Down?' section near the bottom where I list a few other cards that are handy to have on hand if you're playing within those environments where you may need cards outside of my 100 in the main deck list

The best I can do is a deck that works for me within the metas I play but feel free to experiment and tweek the deck to how you want to play it!

a ok because you scared me since I took all the cards ahahah, however the deck as you reported in the list I see that it is very nice, at the beginning it is complicated to understand the mechanics but if you learn well to play the artifacts go ahead which is a wonder, I'm trying on the Kockatrice against my friends and they are already hating me xD

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

Cristian94s wrote:
3 years ago
a ok because you scared me since I took all the cards ahahah, however the deck as you reported in the list I see that it is very nice, at the beginning it is complicated to understand the mechanics but if you learn well to play the artifacts go ahead which is a wonder, I'm trying on the Kockatrice against my friends and they are already hating me xD
Glad you like it!
It will take a bit of time to get your head around all the interactions of all the cards.
Its a lot different from most decks because there's barely anything in the deck that doesn't stay on the battlefield. Keeping on top of every interaction to maximise your play is somewhat trickier than normal but once you have them in your mind you'll know your sequencing much better.

If you look at the 'card choice' section of the primer I've outlined every card and more importantly the key interactions on the cards in bold underneath. Use that like a cheat sheet and keep an eye out for your synergies

I get that it's a bit counterintuitive to want your commander to die and at such a high casting cost but the more you play the better it'll feel when he gets removed!

Have you managed to hit anyone with an Annihilator 12 yet? (Strionic Resonator and Rings of Brighthearth)

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Post by MJ0LN1R7 » 3 years ago

Still to this day I find great synergies with my Kozi boy... Next to my K'rrik deck these are my favs!

Last night I had the table in a combo win. There was no stopping the infinite mana/untaps with Planar Bridge bringing out my entire deck. Until one of the guys cast Teferi's Protection so I couldn't destroy or take him out, let alone Mindslaver him! He let it be known he was going to win on his turn having been playing his super friends deck. That's when we get creative!!

Taking out Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Unwinding Clock, Krark-Clan Ironworks, Ashnod's Altar, Scroll Rack and Lithoform Engine with the Planar Bridge, Rings of Brighthearth and Voltaic Key in play. I was able to pass turn.

On his upkeep I made infinite mana with infinite untaps again. Bridging in our Spine of Ish Sah, copying it infinite times to destroy all his things. And set up so if for some reason he could remove my spine or somehow stop my chain. I could either sac ulamog to shuffle the spine into my deck. Or if it's on the field sac it to krark clan to bring it to my hand, putting it back on top of the deck with scroll rack and bridging it allll over again ;). Infinite destroy at instant speed!

It was great, just thought I'd share that super fun combo. Strionic Resonator would work too I've just swapped it out for litho.

Kozi is the Butcher with juice baby

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Post by Cristian94s » 3 years ago

MJ0LN1R7 wrote:
3 years ago
Still to this day I find great synergies with my Kozi boy... Next to my K'rrik deck these are my favs!

Last night I had the table in a combo win. There was no stopping the infinite mana/untaps with Planar Bridge bringing out my entire deck. Until one of the guys cast Teferi's Protection so I couldn't destroy or take him out, let alone Mindslaver him! He let it be known he was going to win on his turn having been playing his super friends deck. That's when we get creative!!

Taking out Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Unwinding Clock, Krark-Clan Ironworks, Ashnod's Altar, Scroll Rack and Lithoform Engine with the Planar Bridge, Rings of Brighthearth and Voltaic Key in play. I was able to pass turn.

On his upkeep I made infinite mana with infinite untaps again. Bridging in our Spine of Ish Sah, copying it infinite times to destroy all his things. And set up so if for some reason he could remove my spine or somehow stop my chain. I could either sac ulamog to shuffle the spine into my deck. Or if it's on the field sac it to krark clan to bring it to my hand, putting it back on top of the deck with scroll rack and bridging it allll over again ;). Infinite destroy at instant speed!

It was great, just thought I'd share that super fun combo. Strionic Resonator would work too I've just swapped it out for litho.

Kozi is the Butcher with juice baby

hello you made a devastating play,: D ,, I wanted to ask you one thing, but the black lotus and the three lands Urza's Tower and the other two, why didn't you put them?
just a little curiosity :)
(for the black lotus for obvious reasons :), but the other three lands?)

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Post by MJ0LN1R7 » 3 years ago

This is sir Rasputin's forum but our decks are very similar minus a few things I like here and there though. Most of us with Kozilek decks don't run the Urza lands because the chances of getting them all on the field unless you trip out like my previous post. Is pretty well unheard of. You are way better using your Expedition Map on something better. There are so many to choose from. Honestly I'd rather have my Scorched Ruins, Deserted Temple combo set up than find 1-2 more missing pieces for Urzatron. Getting one more land to complete a land combo is quite different than a 3 land combo with little to no tutors worth finding them in a 99 deck! And those 3 cards equal the 7 mana I can get anyways from 2 cards. Less set up as well.

The lotus is banned so that's that. I run Jeweled Lotus anyway and that does more than wonders for this deck IMO!! I just recently used it in conjunction with Krark-Clan Ironworks and Clock of Omens for some pretty cool shenanigans!

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Post by Rasputin101 » 3 years ago

MJ0LN1R7 wrote:
3 years ago
This is sir Rasputin's forum but our decks are very similar minus a few things I like here and there though. Most of us with Kozilek decks don't run the Urza lands because the chances of getting them all on the field unless you trip out like my previous post. Is pretty well unheard of. You are way better using your Expedition Map on something better. There are so many to choose from.
Seriously, share all the info! I'm by no means the keeper of kozilek! I'm all for opinions on cards, combos and inclusions being shared here. Me and @Runnin have been chatting for years and we don't even run the same commander :laugh:

That is however why I don't run the tron lands. Getting two out in one game is uncommon, let alone all three!

I have been all over scorched ruins since you stuck it back under my nose though. Loving it with Manascape Refractor (which I paid little attention to when it was released).
Both are going into the decklist permanently once I've worked out what I'm cutting for them.

That combo you listed above is beautiful.
I've had games like that where you've got you whole deck available to you at instant speed and there's absolutely no out for anyone else at the table! Awesome work!

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Post by Runnin » 3 years ago

Rasputin101 wrote:
3 years ago

Seriously, share all the info! I'm by no means the keeper of kozilek! I'm all for opinions on cards, combos and inclusions being shared here. Me and @Runnin have been chatting for years and we don't even run the same commander :laugh:
Oh wow, it has been quite a while now huh? That feels so weird to see in writing :grin: But yeah, I've grown more fond of the Distortion. It has won me so many more games.

And yes, I would've loved to play the Urza lands if I could get it more reliably. I guess one could change up the deck a bit and run Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, as your commander but keep it colourless as much as possible. I could do it, but I'm missing a few lands that could be beneficial for the deck. Like Crystal Quarry and Cascading Cataracts. Oh and ofc Field of the Dead.

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Post by Bigsasha » 3 years ago

Surprised to see that you took out Mishra's Workshop!

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