Kozilek 1.0 - How to Lose Friends and Annihilate People

[Runnin]

Nows the time for the thought vessel!

How do we feel on Guildless Commons?
Slow yes. Bad.... No?

Oh yeah, definitley!

Imo, its better than Temple of the False God. But I could be too biased here since I really despise the temple. Too bad it comes in tapped tho, I don't like having lands coming in untapped. But it isn't that bad, I think.

[Rasputin101]

I think if I'm gonna run it it may take the place of

• temple of the false god

but I think it's a lot better because with the low land count in the deck it helps with an extra land drop.
To be fair the type of land is nothing new. Its just a colourless version of dimir aqueduct and all the other bounce lands from the original Ravnica.
I avoid tapped lands like the plague but where this gives the extra land drop I think it's worth running.
Extra trigger from Zhalfirin Void...?

[Runnin]

I think if I'm gonna run it it may take the place of

• temple of the false god

but I think it's a lot better because with the low land count in the deck it helps with an extra land drop.
To be fair the type of land is nothing new. Its just a colourless version of dimir aqueduct and all the other bounce lands from the original Ravnica.
I avoid tapped lands like the plague but where this gives the extra land drop I think it's worth running.
Extra trigger from Zhalfirin Void...?

Yeah, I think its beneficial in that way as well. I also think it can be good against people that plays cards like Lithoform Blight or Spreading Seass against our lands. Not too common but still .

[East Side]

what do y'all think of commander's plate?Commander's Plate [/card]

[Rasputin101]

I think I prefer Whispersilk Cloak because of the shroud.
It costs one more in total but I think the effect is better.
I don't think the +3/+3 brings much to the table when even on Kozilek's base stats he's a two hit kill on commander damage. There's no real difference in 24 damage or 30, both results are the same.
The only thing the protection brings to the table here is making him unblock able, which the Cloak does anyway, and the Cloak stops every other form of interaction, not just creatures.
The Cloak also benefits more from anything that reduces the cost of artifacts due to its higher casting cost, survives Pernicious Deed effects easier.

That being said if you're just looking at a faster way to a commander kill you've found a keeper!

[MJ0LN1R7]

Hey boys, been creeping this primer a long time cuz I love colourless as much as you do apparently! I run a pretty jank Butcher deck also. I know you don't run scorched ruins but I've found it such a powerhouse so it's one of my favs. I just found out an infinite mana/draw with War Room today. It requires Scorched Ruins, Deserted Temple, Rings of Brighthearth to make infinite mana. Then just add war room for the draw! What a card it is!!

[Rasputin101]

Welcome to the forum (at least the posting part anyway!)

For some reason I never though to pair Deserted Temple and Rings of Brighthearth. Its obvious now you mention it!
Tutor out all your creatures with Eye of Ugin. Prevent ever being dealt combat damage with Maze of Ith.
But yeah most importantly pick up your deck with War Room, High Market or Miren, the Moaning Well (by sacrificing the big man).
It's Voltaic Key all over again!

I've just about made space for war room and Guildless Commons, now I need to run Deserted Temple!

Yeah, Scorched Ruins is too hot for me but that's infinite mana with temple and rings too!

[MJ0LN1R7]

Ya man, I get that it's a risky land but that's commander for me! I run Manascape Refractor in conjunction with scorched for 8 mana xD. Plus Scorched Ruins with Deserted Temple is 7 mana together. And we run crucible anyway so it works good for me!

I haven't decided on Guildless Commons yet. I seen you guys talking about it and I'm about to pick up the card just playing with the idea so far.

[Rasputin101]

... I'm gonna have to re-test scorched ruins I think.
I used to run it in the early days but it never usually lasted more than one rotation before some did something terrible to it.
Although the land destruction in my meta has dropped in the last year and I'm probably now the biggest culprit for it.
I'm gonna test them out and see where I land (see what I did there?)

I think Deserted Temple is just getting better the stronger the colourless lands are getting. Even if its just two sacs off high market that's right cards from infinite mana which is usually the thing. Infinite mana is easy. Finding the finisher after with limited tutoring is not so easy!
I'm loving Guildless Commons at the moment. I run probably too few lands so it bridges that little gap for the extra land drop. Again, 3 mana with Deserted Temple!

How many lands do you run?

[MJ0LN1R7]

I run 34 lands. Now keep in mind that includes Maze of Ith, Temple of the False God, and Eye of Ugin all of which can be an issue at some points. But I do run Chromatic Lantern and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth so it's never been an issue usually. Unfortunately I am wishing for a Mishra's Workshop for one day in life but until then I mostly run the same lands as you all.

What are some of the pros of Guildless Commons that you really like? I don't run Zhalfirin Void so that's off the table there. I am super picky with my lands that they need to serve a well rounded function or they don't belong in the deck. Also noting I took the last 2 basics out of my deck. It hurts very rarely but I love the extra utility. Amazing what a few extra utilities can do!

P.S. I know you don't run Manascape Refractor, but to have an extra tutor off of Inventors' Fair or any other second activation off a land has been HUGE for me. It's bonkers even though it comes in tapped first. If it didn't it'd be broken in Kozi. Worse case it's a 3-1 mana tapper which I know we don't like. But it gets 2 off quite frequently and with Scorched Ruins its a powerhouse! Even Eldrazi Temple. Also... one last thing, the refractor can be a token wipe with Blast Zone on the field as it has no counters! Sweet eh!!

[MJ0LN1R7]

Another note I was gona add to you. With the commander now going to the GY when it "dies" before you replace it to the CZ. This triggers Kozi's shuffle ability whether we like it or not so cards like Scrap Trawler become increasingly less effective. Something I've had to cut recently because of the rule change. Crappy but it's the way it is I guess!

[Runnin]

I really like Zhalfirin Void. It can move unwanted cards to the bottom, helps ya dig a bit extra. I'd swap Temple of the False God in a heartbeat for it. Especially if I ran as few lands as you are.

Manascape Refractor is a bit interesting... plus it woudl give me a reason to test Scorched Ruins haha, got a nice signed one that just exists.

Luckily I don't have the Scrap Trawler problem since I run the Distortion instead. Plus getting cards back to hand is awesome for his Shoal ability. But before when I ran the Butcher, I really liked the choice of getting to shuffle in my graveyard or not.

[Rasputin101]

I run 34 lands. Now keep in mind that includes Maze of Ith, Temple of the False God, and Eye of Ugin all of which can be an issue at some points. But I do run Chromatic Lantern and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth so it's never been an issue usually. Unfortunately I am wishing for a Mishra's Workshop for one day in life but until then I mostly run the same lands as you all.

What are some of the pros of Guildless Commons that you really like? I don't run Zhalfirin Void so that's off the table there. I am super picky with my lands that they need to serve a well rounded function or they don't belong in the deck. Also noting I took the last 2 basics out of my deck. It hurts very rarely but I love the extra utility. Amazing what a few extra utilities can do!

P.S. I know you don't run Manascape Refractor, but to have an extra tutor off of Inventors' Fair or any other second activation off a land has been HUGE for me. It's bonkers even though it comes in tapped first. If it didn't it'd be broken in Kozi. Worse case it's a 3-1 mana tapper which I know we don't like. But it gets 2 off quite frequently and with Scorched Ruins its a powerhouse! Even Eldrazi Temple. Also... one last thing, the refractor can be a token wipe with Blast Zone on the field as it has no counters! Sweet eh!!

Now you're making me want to test out manascape rafractor!!! Been looking for something to potentially replace Mindslaver... I'll test it out I think.
I pretty much disregarded it when I first saw it but you have a really good point there, especially with blast zone!

The main benefit I see with Guildless Commons Is the extra land drop it guarantees. I've also used it to take away an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth after an opponent played a Cabal Coffers. Yeah,it works well with Zhalfirin Void But really it's about the land drop.
I suppose it's another one that counts toward you manascape refractor as well!

I've not really run into the scrap trawler shuffle problem.
Typically it's just good protection from field wipes but you can stack your triggers so Kozilek only shuffles away what you can't get anyway.

I've been playing with losing the last two wastes In the deck but I can't bring myself to do it. Ruination causes me to wake up in colds sweats as it is!

Mishra's Workshop is amazing in the deck. But I think I'm going to take mine out because its a proxy and I don't actually own a real copy. It's been in there for absolutely ages since the first iteration of the deck but with scorched ruins possibly going in I think I need to take it out as a matter oh honesty lol.

[MJ0LN1R7]

Ya I ended up replacing Gemstone Caverns with War Room today and Temple of the False God with Guildless Commons. Super good point on the urborg bounce haha I loved that!. Have to pass on the void for now even though I do own one. I'll maybe go back to the 2 wastes I had in the deck but probably not haha, I don't care that much really. There's something special with colourless and our land utilities so for the amount it hurts over what a unique land base gets us I'll take the hit!

Ya I know about the triggers stacking but I always got caught without scrappy on field or in hand as my board was wiped. I actually made the swap between Scrap Trawler and Manascape Refractor just to test it and loved it so much with all the different abilities! Literally any land on the field yours or somebody else's lol. Want to use the other guys Cabal Coffers with our Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth? I've done it!

And if my group would let me run a couple thousand dollar proxy I'd most certainly do it haha! But we play in tourneys at the LGS so you can't even use the proxies that you do have, we have to insert the real ones.
One day I will own one.

[Runnin]

One thing I've always said and tried to keep in mind at all time before making decisions is: "LOOK AT YOUR LANDS!" . Many times, I've had the answer there to swing it in my favour or for me surviving. I'm at 36 or 37 lands atm. I kinda regret not buying the foiled War Room when I could...

[MJ0LN1R7]

Hahaha that probably rings home for a lot of us with such land utility! Man that is a TON of land wow, especially for your big guy wanting to dc permanents to counter. Crazy crazy!

I ran distortion in my deck for a bit. I cut him cuz I just liked other things better. Mainly Void Winnower because I already run both Ulamogs. Only 4 eldrazi in my whole deck including Butcher. Winnower just stomps on people a whole lot from my experience. And it's protection if I can shroud her which isn't uncommon for me.

[Rasputin101]

Void Winnower is such a good card!
I had it in the deck for maybe a year after it was first printed but it came out for some reason. Probably for a combo piece!
The look on your opponents faces when they glance from winnower to their hand, back to winnower, then back to their hand. Priceless.

I've been testing out scorched ruins and so far so good, back to loving it. Only a matter of time before someone responds with more land hate!
And Manascape Refractor's being delivered in the next few days so I'll give that a punt too.
I think I'll be axing mindslaver to test that one out as its the "worst card" in the deck

[MJ0LN1R7]

Aaahaha that Void Winnower comment got a good laugh out of me!! So true...

Glad to hear your play test of Scorched Ruins is going well again. Usually if someone hates on it, the boost that you can gain first is irreversible with your board state. Again coupled with a few combo pieces, it's pretty well my favourite land in Kozi.

Interesting to hear you're looking at cutting Mindslaver!? I've won so many games off this at everything from a 1-5 opponent table. But I suppose we all have our variances that we like. I happen to also run Mirage Mirror and Blinkmoth Urn both of which I know you've cut. Blinkmoth is just a pet card of mine and I couldn't cut it, even for Forsaken Monument, of which I cut something else instead. I get lots of haste enables or crazy plays with the mirror that it's too much fun to not have! I stormed off and won one day with my opponents Song of Creation. Oh what a game that was!!

I did switch Strionic Resonator with Lithoform Engine because I never had anything to copy at that 2 mana curve anyway! All I did was drop it at 2 because I could and that's all. And the extra "rings" option on the engine lets us copy even mana abilities!! Or if someone counters our board wipe All Is Dust, you can copy it on the stack hahaha... it's been a tank for me in my plays, hasn't been a disappointment yet. We run on big mana too so who cares if it costs 2 more.

[Wallycaine]

I did switch Strionic Resonator with Lithoform Engine because I never had anything to copy at that 2 mana curve anyway! All I did was drop it at 2 because I could and that's all. And the extra "rings" option on the engine lets us copy even mana abilities!! Or if someone counters our board wipe All Is Dust, you can copy it on the stack hahaha... it's been a tank for me in my plays, hasn't been a disappointment yet. We run on big mana too so who cares if it costs 2 more.

Unfortunately, even Lithoform Engine can't copy mana abilities. While it doesn't have a specific restriction against doing so, the issue is that no one gets priority while a mana ability is on the stack, even if it's your own. So there's no point where a mana activated ability can be targetted by Lithoform Engine.

[MJ0LN1R7]

Ya Wally you're right. For some reason I thought metalworker used the stack. Well in any case with Lithoform Engine its still a super versatile card in this blend, being able to copy literally anything on the stack we control is loads of fun

[Rasputin101]

Blinkmoth Urn is so good but you end up the last person to get anything out of it. Without a doubt you get the most out of it but I found more often than not it was gone by the time is was my next turn. I play in a meta where my deck is really well known because I'm really open about how it works to new players, so the artifact destruction is always there waiting for me to do something impactful and I found just the standard tappers over the big engines got me more man over the length of the game so the Urn had to go. It also feels pretty rough when an opponent gets to take their turn, do their thing and have the mana to destroy the urn because it afforded them to do so!

Cutting Mindslaver because it's a huge cost and it's no good having it sit there for a turn like a threat, every time it turned the table on me or forces a board wipe.
It's very much a drop and fire in my opinion. Such a hard cut to make because it has won games and when it works it's a beastly way to close the game but I had to be objective about it and work out what's the best in the most situations and Mindslaver was usually at the bottom of the pile. I think it's a tough one but in the long run I don't think I'll miss it. Those games where you use an opponent's combo to kill all but yourself. Yours was Song of Creation, mine was a beautiful Acidic Sliver finisher.

I didn't think Lithoform Engine was all that great when I saw it. Definitely a powerhouse but I don't like the high cost for the card, then the abilities.
I suppose it's redundancy in the Staff of Domination/Sculpting Steel/Clock of Omens combo as you don't necessarily need the Sculpting Steel. If the Lithoform Engine take it's place you get the same result of infinite mana and your library in your hand.

My Manascape Refractor came today so I'm gonna test it out and see if it fits.
I think it will and you've made a pretty strong case for it!
Shame it doesn't come in foil though! Hurts taking a foil out for a non-foil in a deck that's at 96 foilybois.
And scorched ruins! You're killing me!

[MJ0LN1R7]

Hahaha ya I hear you on the foils. And yes with the Blinkmoth Urn we do become the last to use it but I usually have a way to tap it on and off having run Blinkmoth Well as well. I love tapping other people's mana vaults and artifacts down on their upkeep hehehe, terrible shenanigans.

I was gona ask the forum if anyone has play tested the almighty Jeweled Lotus yet!? I have yet to find a literal better commander for this card than Kozilek. It is absolutely insane. And even with the amount of artifact abuse this deck has we can use it in other than just to cast the commander. I don't own a Lion's Eye Diamond anymore as I traded it away at the time for more powerful and needed cards. But I was literally about to drop some change on it when this was spoiled. And IMO the drawback from discarding my hand with LED made me not want to run it. Unless it was a specific time it just hurts too bad to do so, and I proxy tested this thoroughly. But now the Lotus has found a way in my deck and it's there to stay! Now, that's not saying that one day I won't have both cuz that makes a T1 Spaghetti MoFo even that much more doable. I just don't need it atm...

What's all your thoughts?

[Runnin]

I finally got a foil War Room ordered! Hopefully it'll arrive roday.

[Rasputin101]

Hahaha ya I hear you on the foils. And yes with the Blinkmoth Urn we do become the last to use it but I usually have a way to tap it on and off having run Blinkmoth Well as well. I love tapping other people's mana vaults and artifacts down on their upkeep hehehe, terrible shenanigans.

I was gona ask the forum if anyone has play tested the almighty Jeweled Lotus yet!? I have yet to find a literal better commander for this card than Kozilek. It is absolutely insane. And even with the amount of artifact abuse this deck has we can use it in other than just to cast the commander. I don't own a Lion's Eye Diamond anymore as I traded it away at the time for more powerful and needed cards. But I was literally about to drop some change on it when this was spoiled. And IMO the drawback from discarding my hand with LED made me not want to run it. Unless it was a specific time it just hurts too bad to do so, and I proxy tested this thoroughly. But now the Lotus has found a way in my deck and it's there to stay! Now, that's not saying that one day I won't have both cuz that makes a T1 Spaghetti MoFo even that much more doable. I just don't need it atm...

What's all your thoughts?

Muldrotha, the Gravetide. It's frankly better for Muldrotha!

I briefly tested Jeweled Lotus and it was a bit up and down for me.
It's kind of like a reverse Mishra's Workshop in a way. It's great for setting up the board to cast Kozilek to restock your hand but there are those instances where you've played out and your sat at 9 because the factory can't tap to cast Kozilek. It's infuriating and makes you hate life but at least it helps the board progress in the early stages.
The same can kind of be said for the lotus. When it's good it's maybe the best card in the deck but if you can't cast what's in your hand to make the lotus viable for that final push it feels really bad. It's pretty much a Lion's Eye Diamond but let you keep your hand but there's no combo with it. I'd rather run LED every time because it's infinite mana with the Forge/Top/Key combo and although it's hard to progress a board state with LED, at least you can use it to squeeze out some activated abilities with that ,

There's the obvious abuse we have with Clock of Omens and Kuldotha Forgemaster which are great and it's an easy topdeck cast for Mystic Forge but apart from that there's not a lot else we can abuse it with (unless you're running your Blinkmoth Urn trickery!)

I'm not saying it's bad but at the rate the deck draws through cards it's actually not as good as it seems at surface level.
To me anyway.

I finally got a foil War Room ordered! Hopefully it'll arrive roday.

I've been loving War Room. Works great after you've tapped Mystic Forge to get shot of a land on top of your deck for more casting.
Really hoping that the spoiler that came recently of Vorinclex Means that the Phyrexians might bring some dirty dirty artifacts with them for us to play with!

[Runnin]

MHMMMM! Now we can officially make Kozilek a Eldrazi GOD!