Anafenza, Hatebears 2021

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Ertai Planeswalker
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Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 3 years ago

Anafenza, Hatebears 2021
After a rather unsuccefull attempt at Azorius Hatebears, I'm now trying an Abzan one (I really want a deck like this). The problem with the Azorius one (led by Lavinia, Azorius Renegade ) was that it was good at slowing stuff down, but not so much in actually winning. So the end result was me taking the tempo out of the game but not doing much else.

To try and not repeat that mistake I made sure I added some buffs for the otherwise kind of puny hatebears (Huatli, Radiant Champion, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Ravos, Soultender and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite) so I can actually keep attacking and actively killing my opponents while stalling them.

What I also found was that, once you get the proper hatebear out to screw with someone, they will do everything they can to remove it. That's why the deck also features an extensive recursion package: no bear will be gone for long (unless it's exiled of course). It also allows me to quickly recover from boardwipes if neccesary.

Anyway, as you can see in the decklist, I still have some cards in my maybeboard that I feel should be in there but aren't because I can't play 107 cards. So I'm turning to you all to tell me whether you feel I made the right choice or what cards I should swap. Or just critique in general.
Anafenza, Hatebears 2021

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Last edited by Ertai Planeswalker 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

NZB2323
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Post by NZB2323 » 3 years ago

As long as you're running Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Linvala, Keeper of Silence, you may want to consider running Kamahl, Fist of Krosa or Nature's Revolt so you destroy your opponents lands or they can't tap them for mana.

Hushbringer and Hushwing Gryff hate on several cards in your deck:
Containment Priest hates against a bunch of cards you're running:
Containment Priest isn't the only card in your deck that hates on birthing pod:
Leonin Arbiter doesn't just hate on birthing pod:
You're also running 21 noncreature spells to go alongside Thalia, guardian of thraben, Glowrider, and Vryn Wingmare, 6 of which you can't run with a Gaddock Teeg in play.

Instead of playing cards that hate on your deck or get hated on by your deck, I'd recommend playing these cards:
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 3 years ago

While the rest of those are correct, Karametra, God of Harvests is a cast trigger, not an ETB trigger, and thus is unaffected by those two cards. Some of those are also still decently strong cards even without their ETB, such as Sun Titan or still have hate bear effects, such as Yasharn, Implacable Earth or Manglehorn. So really, the only cards completely "shut down" by Hushbringer and Hushwing Gryff are Bane of Progress and Eternal Witness, both of which are generically strong enough it's probably worth the non-bo.

In general, it's very difficult to run a hate bear deck that contains *no* anti-synergy. It's often worth allowing some to exist, because otherwise you either end up leaving large swaths of potiential hatebears out, or have to severely strip down your own gameplay to play around cards you only have 1-2 of in the deck. Even in cases where the restrictions are symmetrical and hit yourself, you often have better information and can play around it more than the opponents. For example, if you have Leonin Arbiter out and absolutely must use birthing pod without the 2 mana tax... you can always birthing pod him away for a better 3 drop restriction instead.

NZB2323
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Post by NZB2323 » 3 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
3 years ago
While the rest of those are correct, Karametra, God of Harvests is a cast trigger, not an ETB trigger, and thus is unaffected by those two cards. Some of those are also still decently strong cards even without their ETB, such as Sun Titan or still have hate bear effects, such as Yasharn, Implacable Earth or Manglehorn. So really, the only cards completely "shut down" by Hushbringer and Hushwing Gryff are Bane of Progress and Eternal Witness, both of which are generically strong enough it's probably worth the non-bo.

In general, it's very difficult to run a hate bear deck that contains *no* anti-synergy. It's often worth allowing some to exist, because otherwise you either end up leaving large swaths of potiential hatebears out, or have to severely strip down your own gameplay to play around cards you only have 1-2 of in the deck. Even in cases where the restrictions are symmetrical and hit yourself, you often have better information and can play around it more than the opponents. For example, if you have Leonin Arbiter out and absolutely must use birthing pod without the 2 mana tax... you can always birthing pod him away for a better 3 drop restriction instead.
Fair points, I'd just rather run Opposition Agent or Ob Nixilis, Unshackled than Leonin Arbiter in EDH.
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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Ertai Planeswalker
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 3 years ago

NZB2323 wrote:
3 years ago
As long as you're running Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Linvala, Keeper of Silence, you may want to consider running Kamahl, Fist of Krosa or Nature's Revolt so you destroy your opponents lands or they can't tap them for mana.
While that is indeed a strong combination, that is the kind of hard stax i'm trying to avoid. My group will not be into that kind of thing. I would personally not appreciate playing against it either.
Wallycaine wrote:
3 years ago
While the rest of those are correct, Karametra, God of Harvests is a cast trigger, not an ETB trigger, and thus is unaffected by those two cards. Some of those are also still decently strong cards even without their ETB, such as Sun Titan or still have hate bear effects, such as Yasharn, Implacable Earth or Manglehorn. So really, the only cards completely "shut down" by Hushbringer and Hushwing Gryff are Bane of Progress and Eternal Witness, both of which are generically strong enough it's probably worth the non-bo.

In general, it's very difficult to run a hate bear deck that contains *no* anti-synergy. It's often worth allowing some to exist, because otherwise you either end up leaving large swaths of potiential hatebears out, or have to severely strip down your own gameplay to play around cards you only have 1-2 of in the deck. Even in cases where the restrictions are symmetrical and hit yourself, you often have better information and can play around it more than the opponents. For example, if you have Leonin Arbiter out and absolutely must use birthing pod without the 2 mana tax... you can always birthing pod him away for a better 3 drop restriction instead.
I agree with @Wallycaine here. The idea of having a few creature tutors is having the right kind of hatebear versus the right kind of deck. Looking at the people in my playgroup, Kataki, War's Wage may hurt me a bit, but it's going to outright wreck Emry, Lurker of the Loch. Archon of Valor's Reach will prevent me from playing a few instants, but it prevents the Jori En, Ruin Diver player from playing over 70% of his nonland cards. Archon of Emeria and Spirit of the Labyrinth hurt me too, but there's a Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle deck in my group that plays and replays 5-10 cards each turn generating massive value, They are crippled much more.
NZB2323 wrote:
3 years ago
Fair points, I'd just rather run Opposition Agent or Ob Nixilis, Unshackled than Leonin Arbiter in EDH.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled costs 6 mana which is a lot for a deck that runs 35 lands. I totally agree about Opposition Agent and I would totally get one it if it wasn't horribly overpriced. Maybe after the hype dies down a bit.

All in all though, I think @NZB2323 raises a valid point with regards to Containment Priest since I'm pretty heavily into recursion myself. So that's off the table.

Do you guys have anything to say regarding the maybeboard? Or do you not see any upgrades and should i leave it as it is?

NZB2323
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Post by NZB2323 » 3 years ago

Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
3 years ago
NZB2323 wrote:
3 years ago
Fair points, I'd just rather run Opposition Agent or Ob Nixilis, Unshackled than Leonin Arbiter in EDH.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled costs 6 mana which is a lot for a deck that runs 35 lands. I totally agree about Opposition Agent and I would totally get one it if it wasn't horribly overpriced. Maybe after the hype dies down a bit.

All in all though, I think @NZB2323 raises a valid point with regards to Containment Priest since I'm pretty heavily into recursion myself. So that's off the table.

Do you guys have anything to say regarding the maybeboard? Or do you not see any upgrades and should i leave it as it is?
Out of your maybeboard I like Beast Whisperer the best for your deck. Overall I'm not seeing a ton of draw for your deck. You could try replacing Containment Priest with BW and see how that works for you.

I'd also encourage you to test out Ob Nixilis, Unshackled if you have one, or at least when you're playtesting and draw a Leonin Arbiter ask yourself if you'd rather have ONU. 35 lands and 10 ramp pieces means that almost half of your deck is mana sources, and if you want to be curving into Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite you need 7 mana.
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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