[Primer WIP] Trynn & Silvar Rebel Yell - a Multiplayer Conscious Deck

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

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Some of you know me, some don't. Some of you have replied in this earlier thread here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31615. If you haven't, that's okay too! So whom wants to help me rock this delicate 3c political deck out here?
Over the last two weeks, we've had some rich discussion about the merits of commander in a multiplayer setting, to include why I, a notorious and ruthlessly efficient one-vs-one player, just "don't get" multiplayer play. This led to myself wanting to challenge myself to learn how to not only play with multiple opponents, but how to not alienate a table to a point of total ostricization. To that end, while I still have much to learn, I've developed a thesis statement of purpose about this deck, to which I can both easily defend, as well as uphold to my own personal ethos. So, why build Trynn, Champion of Freedom + Silvar, Devourer of the Free? And why Rebels of all tribes?

"To build a deck enabled by cool, intrinsically powerful interactions, while not turning itself into a social pariah among any number of opponents. To create a deck capable of cleanly executing it's strategy, but not in such a way as to generate the same linear, efficient path to the execution of such a strategy."

If you played during Mercadia block, you remember two things; the first being that Rishadan Port is an obnoxiously efficient card that became the only card banned in block constructed for it's time. The second, was the "efficiency" of activated abilities paying a slight premium to pull creatures straight from the deck, even if those creatures left something to be desired (after all, no one is writing home about Ramosian Sergeant). This was a product of the age, when creatures still kinda sucked, though they were getting better compared to the Ice Age days. So, why now? Most people use Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero for their rebel decks, and then cry because they got pigeon-holed into mono-w those poor brave-yet-unfortunate souls. But I'm 3drinks, and I'm not most people. I'm the Mardu Guy, and like I was one of the pioneers that took Kaalia of the Vast to her status of fear and loathing across the table, so to do I see something in our critically under-played partners. So, why these two though. Why does fortune favour two partners with terrific flavour but not a lot of oomph in the commander metagame as we know it? The answer harkons to a couple of points. The first is, do you remember when the original Innistrad block came around and we got Falkenrath Aristocrat? A free sac outlet that did something more if the creature sacrificed was a human. Well, I don't know if you caught on yet, but Silvar the nightmare kitty is kind of a legendary version of Falkenrath Aristocrat. And...rebels are humans. I know there's a neat Aristocrats deck nestled in these partners, complimented by the fact that rebels are great at "phoning a friend" as well as Trynn providing free bodies on Raid which is a reasonable perk.

If you stopped reading there, you'd have "a deck". But that's not where we're stopping. Y'see, people like myself are a bit of a known quantity in terms of reputation. We hyper-analyse and look for the easiest path between two points to secure for victory, which usually ends in a lockout situation, and systematically with myself getting locked out from that particular table. Now we're circling back to the other half of the thesis statement. Where, yes, we could easily run Contamination where our rebel search ability would allow us to feed the upkeep cost rather effortlessly, and yes we could run grave pact|8ed and frustrate our creature wielding opponents. But then why not just play Korvold, Fae-Cursed King like all the other degenerate lock players? And also, that's not at all multiplayer-conscious. No, we're looking to make friends and not come off as the bad guy here, despite doing some cool, powerful things. Another user once said, "the ideal place to be in a multiplayer game is the third strongest". First strongest earns the fire, second strongest the reputation for swooping in with the kill while the first person gets Dogpiled, and the last person...no one wants to be in last place. So we're going to eschew those commonly used frustrating cards such that we can repair and rebuild a reputation that not only gets us invited back to the table, but helps us to make friends and become a player that people want to play with. And I know that's big talk coming from me, mister mass land destruction tribal and all. But I'm serious. I want to see Trynn/Silvar become something special, because I like the flavour ohsomuch. And, right, friends, yes friends are a good reason too.

One last note, where ever possible, I'm going to be sticking with pre-modern cards only (I'm a sucker for Magic nostalgia, but also I had Silvar and Trynn professionally altered into old card frames) unless it's truly necessary - such as the second wave of Rebels we got from Time Spiral, or some key utilitarian cards like Sensei's Divining Top. Which you're playing divining top, no questions asked. Why, you ask? After all if you follow my deckbuilding theories especially in Kaalia, you'll find I don't play Divining Top there, citing it as a "bad mana sink". Which is true. But in this deck, you have intrinsic advantage baked into the commanders - Trynn and Silvar both have a free shuffle on ETB. This allows you to hit a reroll on a land pocket or other undesirable cards in the top deck and try again. And, your Rebels also do the same thing for what it's worth. So, while yes, Divining Top is critically overplayed by a large number of decks and players that think it's providing more than being a bad mana sink, here it is actually providing more than enough to justify it's slot. Ultimately, I don't subscribe to the theory of "needing" every new pushed card that comes out when we're really looking for X number of slots for game function Y. Like, yes, There's some great removal options like Murderous Rider // Swift End, Bedevil, and Settle the Wreckage, but how much benefit you're getting over, say, Terminate|pls or Terror|3ed, Orim's Thunder, or Wrath of God|6ed y'know? Again, some exceptions exist - but for the most part, you can cover all your roles without buying a bunch of new cards every set to then get replaced by a bunch more new cards which get replaced by more new cards. It's a cycle of consumerism, and you have the power to break it, if you truly want to.
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Last edited by 3drinks 3 years ago, edited 49 times in total.

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Post by knight_seb » 3 years ago

Hello,
Frogify is missing as one of your aura based removal

I know the deck is under construction but I think it will be hard to leave the usual suspects on the bench (Rhystic study, horn of greed, Maze's end, ...). If your build is about lands, Into the Wilds or Rowen could be useful too.

I will now read the other topic I missed.

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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

Oof, gate colossus might be a little too casual lol.

Personally I would avoid cards like rites of flourishing if your goal is to learn. Savvy players understand that, all things being equal, RoF is neither an advantage nor disadvantage to them, so they won't give it much weight politically. Of course, not all commander players are savvy - in fact, most aren't, and many players will likely consider RoF motivation to leave you alone. But at least imo, I prefer to play towards beating the smart players, and assume my games against weaker players can sort themselves out well enough. Unexploited group hug cards are basically a gimmick to trick bad players - I'd avoid them (note that this doesn't necessarily include K&T since they disproportionately benefit their controller). Especially since you're already getting extra land drops - giving them to the opposition just shrinks your advantage.

If you want to focus on playing politically, my advice would be to play a relatively normal (probably not super aggro, no combos/MLD or other things that really piss people off) deck and just focus on (1) managing your threat level to avoid becoming the target while scoping out the table and handling threats (using teamwork as necessary), and (2) finding your plan to win the game from that neutral position and executing it reliably. If I could pick out the two main skills for playing a good political game, it's probably those two.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Whoops, I forgot Wrong Turn. I meant to have that in as a day zero include lol. Want lots more of that effect.

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Post by Antis » 3 years ago

If you want more Wrong Turn-type effects, try Domineering Will.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Antis wrote:
3 years ago
If you want more Wrong Turn-type effects, try Domineering Will.
That's perfect.

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Post by Antis » 3 years ago

If you want politics, how about Power Matrix? It can really mess up combat without being a direct threat to anybody.

Since you're going group hug, you could also try Illusionist's Gambit in case some foolish opponent decides to use their big board against you.

And I think every political deck should run Spectral Searchlight.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 years ago
Oof, gate colossus might be a little too casual lol.

Personally I would avoid cards like rites of flourishing if your goal is to learn. Savvy players understand that, all things being equal, RoF is neither an advantage nor disadvantage to them, so they won't give it much weight politically. Of course, not all commander players are savvy - in fact, most aren't, and many players will likely consider RoF motivation to leave you alone. But at least imo, I prefer to play towards beating the smart players, and assume my games against weaker players can sort themselves out well enough. Unexploited group hug cards are basically a gimmick to trick bad players - I'd avoid them (note that this doesn't necessarily include K&T since they disproportionately benefit their controller). Especially since you're already getting extra land drops - giving them to the opposition just shrinks your advantage.
You really think the colossus is too casual? Well, guess it is a huge knee jerk from me 👀. Probably want more Walking Archive and Temple Bell than colossus and rites?

That certainly eases up the Mana and takes me out of the gate synergy. That's a plus.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

knight_seb wrote:
3 years ago
Hello,
Frogify is missing as one of your aura based removal

I know the deck is under construction but I think it will be hard to leave the usual suspects on the bench (Rhystic study, horn of greed, Maze's end, ...). If your build is about lands, Into the Wilds or Rowen could be useful too.

I will now read the other topic I missed.
My entire collection is exclusively mardu. Since this project is a trial run, I need to keep it cheap. Rhystic Study is $20 across all of it's traditional set printings, so I need to use cheaper alternatives, a la Mystic Remora.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I'm open to dropping G entirely and making the switch to Promikon though too.

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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
You really think the colossus is too casual? Well, guess it is a huge knee jerk from me 👀. Probably want more Walking Archive and Temple Bell than colossus and rites?

That certainly eases up the Mana and takes me out of the gate synergy. That's a plus.
I mean, 120 enemy life / 8 damage at a time = a lot of hits. And it only has medium evasion. And its recursion isn't terribly efficient. And it just dies forever to an STP or whatever. If you were playing a really hard control deck with tons of counterspells and stuff maybe it'd be durable enough, but otherwise I have grave doubts.

Personally I would avoid running any symmetrical effects - archive and bell included - unless you plan to exploit them in some way. Like I said, they're more of a gimmick that will trick bad players but won't actually teach you about being a better political player.

I don't think you need to leave your mardu comfort zone to build a more politically-minded deck or try to practice good political play. You might try Queen Marchesa - I wouldn't consider her terribly political, but she's not overtly threatening like kaalia, she provides a strong defensive position while giving you value, and she can help sow discord among your opponents to help you expedite their eventual downfall. Pack in some interaction, threats, and a couple blowout tricks to help you find your win, and you should be all set to do some learnin'. :D
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I like the shift to Pramikon, Sky Rampart. It's vastly different to how I play which is good for my own growth. Reminds me a bit of the Zedruu days but I don't have a known combo enabler in the 'zone.

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Post by Mookie » 3 years ago

One politically-minded commander I'll bring up is Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist. If you're aiming to have a more political deck, it's really nice to have a way to encourage your opponents to attack each other.

Mathas, Fiend Seeker is another option if you want to stick to Mardu.

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago

@3drinks. This is way off topic but I'm super curious, how would you go about building a Pramikon, Sky Rampart deck? It seems very not your style and I'm fascinated by the question.
Typically, my jeskai builds start from Zedruu with the object to be utilizing her as a positive Phyrexian arena with a finisher of Sunforger beats (Zedruu is a four turn clock this way, and the forger allows me to protect with ease thanks to all the multicolour counterspells I can pull out).

Though I've been known to rock Numot when I'm feeling particularly wildfirey. 😉
I find this hilarious by the way.

As for what you have so far?
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3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
Some of you know me, some don't. Some of you have replied in this earlier thread here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31615. If you haven't, that's okay too! So whom wants to help me rock this delicate 3c political deck out here? Maybe we add a defender scheme to this?

My wall is dipped in gold and I'm gonna make you pay for it all. Wow that joke doesn't work anymore with the 2020 election results 😂

I'd like more of that aura based transform removal.

Again, I'm going to be blunt here. I look at this and see 8 counterspells and a pile of removal with a tutor package. That's just not an interesting basis for a deck. Counterspells aren't particularly enjoyable to play against. A constantly tutoring opponent isn't particularly interesting to play against. Neither of these things are bad in moderation, but the emotional core of your deck is them and that's not going to result in a fun multiplayer deck.

Here's how I approached this. I spent 10-15 minutes pondering what interesting things I could do with Pramikon, Sky Rampart and to be honest you picked a hard commander. The card decreases player decisions which usually doesn't increase coolness of the game. So my brain swung over to trying to land a really stupid combo. I landed on Thousand-Year Storm, block with Pramikon, Sky Rampart into Twisted Image followed by Glyph of Destruction into Fling for 75 damage.

I'd make this combo the heart and soul of my deck and then every card you add compliments it. Sunforger package to find Fling and Glyph of Destruction. A pile of switch p/t cards like About Face, Dwarven Thaumaturgist, Inside Out, Mannichi, the Fevered Dream, Merfolk Thaumaturgist, Invert // Invent, Strange Inversion. A pile of high toughness creatures like Charix, the Raging Isle, Indomitable Ancients and Wall of Frost with stuff that works good with them like High Alert, Dusk // Dawn, and Angelic Chorus.

Focus on doing interesting things yourself not on stopping your opponents from doing interesting things. Dusk // Dawn is a good example. It wraths the board for you, but it does it in a neat way with your deck. For example, you can use Merfolk Thaumaturgist to kill Chulane, Teller of Tales with Dusk // Dawn. Sure it's less efficient than just casting Wrath of God but it's way more neat.

Find interesting things to do first. Then fill in the excess space with cards that keep you alive.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Mookie wrote:
3 years ago
One politically-minded commander I'll bring up is Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist. If you're aiming to have a more political deck, it's really nice to have a way to encourage your opponents to attack each other.

Mathas, Fiend Seeker is another option if you want to stick to Mardu.
Hmm. I suspect because Ludevic is a strong partner, this likely does not help my case here. Plus there's that whole people drawing just for cracking a fetch thing.
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago

@3drinks. This is way off topic but I'm super curious, how would you go about building a Pramikon, Sky Rampart deck? It seems very not your style and I'm fascinated by the question.
Typically, my jeskai builds start from Zedruu with the object to be utilizing her as a positive Phyrexian arena with a finisher of Sunforger beats (Zedruu is a four turn clock this way, and the forger allows me to protect with ease thanks to all the multicolour counterspells I can pull out).

Though I've been known to rock Numot when I'm feeling particularly wildfirey. 😉
I find this hilarious by the way.

Again, I'm going to be blunt here. I look at this and see 8 counterspells and a pile of removal with a tutor package. That's just not an interesting basis for a deck. Counterspells aren't particularly enjoyable to play against. A constantly tutoring opponent isn't particularly interesting to play against. Neither of these things are bad in moderation, but the emotional core of your deck is them and that's not going to result in a fun multiplayer deck.

Here's how I approached this. I spent 10-15 minutes pondering what interesting things I could do with Pramikon, Sky Rampart and to be honest you picked a hard commander. The card decreases player decisions which usually doesn't increase coolness of the game. So my brain swung over to trying to land a really stupid combo. I landed on Thousand-Year Storm, block with Pramikon, Sky Rampart into Twisted Image followed by Glyph of Destruction into Fling for 75 damage.

I'd make this combo the heart and soul of my deck and then every card you add compliments it. Sunforger package to find Fling and Glyph of Destruction. A pile of switch p/t cards like About Face, Dwarven Thaumaturgist, Inside Out, Mannichi, the Fevered Dream, Merfolk Thaumaturgist, Invert // Invent, Strange Inversion. A pile of high toughness creatures like Charix, the Raging Isle, Indomitable Ancients and Wall of Frost with stuff that works good with them like High Alert, Dusk // Dawn, and Angelic Chorus.

Focus on doing interesting things yourself not on stopping your opponents from doing interesting things. Dusk // Dawn is a good example. It wraths the board for you, but it does it in a neat way with your deck. For example, you can use Merfolk Thaumaturgist to kill Chulane, Teller of Tales with Dusk // Dawn. Sure it's less efficient than just casting Wrath of God but it's way more neat.

Find interesting things to do first. Then fill in the excess space with cards that keep you alive.
I knew you'd be the one to bring that back. Whew, talk about full circle 😂. Neat that Pramikon supports Wildfire in its own right though.

The idea behind those counters is being sunforgerable. That's neat and cool isn't it? Am I really still going about this all wrong? Do I just need a restart? Isn't playing the policeman deck political?

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
I knew you'd be the one to bring that back. Whew, talk about full circle 😂. Neat that Pramikon supports Wildfire in its own right though.

The idea behind those counters is being sunforgerable. That's neat and cool isn't it? Am I really still going about this all wrong? Do I just need a restart? Isn't playing the policeman deck political?
What is your honest intent with the Sunforgable counterspells? To me it looks like you're trying to loop the counterspells with Mistveil Plains and Brass Squire to get two counterspells a turn cycle, get into 1v1 situation and soft-lock your opponent out of ever resolving a spell. Which is, not great.

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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

Honestly, it's to keep players honest. Do your thing unless your thing is some expropriate nonsense which I will protect the table from. It would be oppressive in 1v1 though, sure.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

I think if your goal is to prevent BS while also running sunforger, I'd just cut the sunforgable counterspells to prevent putting the table in a "we need to deal with this" kind of situation. It's not a great answer to BS anyway, since it's telegraphed.

Although I'm not sure how you'd get to 2 counterspells per turn (as materpillar said) with just 1 mistveil plains...

EDIT: I agree with materpillar that pramikon isn't really the best for making interesting things happen - nor for learning politics. Good politics incentivizes people to not attack you based on board state, deals, threats, etc. Pramikon just says "no, you can't attack me because you legally can't". He's anti-politics, really.

I agree with you about Ludevic, though, at least insofar as avoiding him. He sucks imo.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

If the defensible wall coming up isn't the definition of politics and multiplayer play, then I'm not sure what is. Is it more super friends esque because of how well it defends your walkers?

I'm still at a loss what to run then. I'd have thought the wall was a great "don't aggro me, I'm not coming at anyone" deck. That is what multiplayer politics is right?

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

WolfWhoWanders
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Post by WolfWhoWanders » 3 years ago

I think Pramikon skews combat thought and math, triggering some players, protecting others. It could provide a safety net for the blaringly obvious combo player as easily as it could protect Joe Casual from a Craterfoot or something. Some people get highly offended with it.
Responds well to spells and abilities

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

What if I just built what I know, but in not prison lockdown style?

Maybe I should just Toggo/Falthis/Obosh. I get the "three commander thing" to satisfy my inner spike, but I'm doing it so I can hurl flaming rocks of death at you. I can literally say kick rocks. That makes me laugh.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4867
Joined: 4 years ago
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Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I actually had a breakthrough.

What if I played Xantcha, Sleeper Agent.....? This is political, yes? And a bit more in line with my particular wheel house without screaming please kill me like the rest of my decks do?

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
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Post by DirkGently » 3 years ago

3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
I'd have thought the wall was a great "don't aggro me, I'm not coming at anyone" deck. That is what multiplayer politics is right?
If pramikon didn't have abilities it'd be a fine option politically, I guess.

When I see someone playing pramikon, though, I usually assume one of two things:

-they're going to lockdown the table until they find some infinite combo and win
-they're going to lockdown the table until they ult all their planeswalkers

Either way, Pramikon preventing interaction makes me very nervous. Not just because of the pramikon player either, since he limits the table's ability to focus their fire on other targets that threaten to get out of control.
3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
What if I just built what I know, but in not prison lockdown style?

Maybe I should just Toggo/Falthis/Obosh. I get the "three commander thing" to satisfy my inner spike, but I'm doing it so I can hurl flaming rocks of death at you. I can literally say kick rocks. That makes me laugh.
This seems like it could work fine.

Really the only question you need to ask yourself to determine if a commander can be political is "will this commander make everybody nervous before the game even starts?" If the answer is "no" (which obviously depends on the group) then you're good to go, at least on a baseline.
3drinks wrote:
3 years ago
I actually had a breakthrough.

What if I played Xantcha, Sleeper Agent.....? This is political, yes? And a bit more in line with my particular wheel house without screaming please kill me like the rest of my decks do?
This also seems like it could work fine.

She can be played politically as a deck, sure. As a card she's...I guess I'd say mildly political? Roughly on par with Qmarchesa.

If you're wondering what peak political looks like, you probably already know my answer :shhh:
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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3drinks
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Posts: 4867
Joined: 4 years ago
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Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 3 years ago

I'm thinking something along the lines of giving you extra stuff...at a cost. Because Ted Dibiase said it best "everybody has a price". Get those Kederekt Parasites flexin, some imputi, Obosh as companion. Drop a Seizan, Perverter of Truth because everyone likes free stuff till they get punched in the mouth.

Group slug politics, I guess. I may be doing too much, but I don't think so.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 years ago

If you can pull it off, I've found tokens to be an oddly good political deck. If you maintain a trickle of tokens, you have a really nonthreatening boardstate that nonetheless blocks pretty well. Walls decks share this advantage, though tend to be worse at rebuilding after Wraths. Also, play rattlesnakes and define their conditions. "Don't attack me, trust me I have a wrath in hand" tends to encourage people to try and call your bluff. On the other hand "I've got an Oblivion Stone, don't test me" just makes everyone scared, and will draw removal. The balanced position of "I will use this Nev Disk the next time someone attacks me" is quite effective.

All this is for combat-based games, where at least the first two players generally die from being attacked, however. In metas where all but the winner tend to lose simultaneously, politics becomes much more akin to Poker, where you watch people's expressions as they draw to determine where to play your answers and what to hold them for.

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