Sevinne: Flashback Control

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

Poor poor Sevinne, the Chronoclasm. The 2019 Commander Deck series gave us decks built around mechanics, and his was "Flashback". He should have seemed great, given that he also plays well with Retrace, Jump-Start, and Escape wheras so many of his contemporaries that year had to play a lot more narrowly.

The problem with that is that all of that is instant and sorcery spam, and Jeskai is already flush with amazing Commanders for spellslingin'. Narset, Enlightened Master and Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest gave two different approaches and lots of versatility. Still, maybe Sevinne could have had a niche with tokens (using Cenn's Enlistment or Call the Skybreaker? He also was maybe good with casting spells out of a 'yard, specifically, since that wasn't an awesome niche for the two original Jeskai slinger commanders. But then Wizards said "nope". Mere weeks before Sevinne was released, they printed Kykar, Wind's Fury in Core Set 2020. Kykar is the best spellslinger Commander Jeskai could ever dream of, supporting a variety of archetypes and having an insanely high power level. He quickly shot up like a meteor as Jeskai's best commander. Want to spam tokens? Kykar is better. Want to go infinite? Kykar is better? Want to kill folks with your commander? Kykar. Want to protect an army of 'walkers? Kykar. Generally speaking Kykar proved to outclass Sevinne, coming down a turn sooner and effectively netting 2 spirits per flashback spell, which outclassed Sevinne's free Forks.

To add insult to injury, Sevinne found himself out-gunned in his own Precon, with Elsha of the Infinite living up to its name with infinite potential as a Spellslinger or Superfriends commander. Turns out, getting to use your entire library as an extra hand is better than using your whole graveyard as an extra hand, especially when your library gains Flash. The nail in the coffin was the printing of Gavi, Nest Warden - if you want to build a Jeskai deck that goes deep on a theme instead of just being a spellslinger or superfriends deck, it's hard to argue with Gavi's raw power and absolutely adorable Cat Dinosaur tokens. Brallin, Skyshark Rider and Shabraz, the Skyshark have even stolen his thunder for Jeskai looting and wheels!

One year later, things are grim for Sevinne. He's one of the only Commanders in MTG history who had two alternative commanders in his precon, both of which are more played on EDHRECs (apparently folks love themselves some Pramikon, Sky Rampart, although at least Jirina Kudro is on track to join him in this loser's bracket). It's not hard to see why; Sevinne is a very situational payoff to historically overcosted effects, on a very small body for a fairly high CMC, with a ton of competition. No one takes him seriously, he's under 500 decks played on EDHRECs which puts him in the bottom five worst face Commanders in Commander deck history alongside Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas, and Jirina Kudro.

And that's why I adore playing him.

Why On Earth Should I Play Sevinne?
I just spent a lot of words outlining why Sevinne is outclassed, so why play him at all?
  • Sevinne will fly under the radar at most tables. He's extremely non-threatening because his deck strategy is so slow. Attacking into him is extremely unappealing due to his pseudo-indestructibility. These two things combine to buy you all the time in the world.
  • You will get to play a lot of obscure old cards which allow you to win from a variety of angles. Sometimes you swing in with a horde of powered up tokens. Sometimes you play like Counter-burn, controlling the flow of the game and burning everyone to death. Sometimes you win with an instant combo. Now, you can also do that with better Commanders, but the next few points are what makes Sevinne really special.
  • A well-built Flashback deck is inexhaustible. The combination of Runic Repetition and (ideally auto-Forked) Mystic Retrieval and the existence of (ideally forked) Oona's Grace and Glimpse of Freedom means you will never, ever, ever run out of fuel.
  • Sevinne is hand's down the best home for the Ral, Storm Conduit infinite engine. Ral is just generally good in our deck as free chip damage, more forks, and some deck manipulation, but you are also so incentivized to run Increasing Vengeance and Refuse // Cooperate that it allows you to "go off" pretty reliably.
  • You get to see, and have access to, a lot of cards. This deck draws like mad and treats its graveyard like a second hand for most of the game, and your Forking spells give you a ton of flexibility and advantage. Your victory paths frequently involve specific combinations of cards, but since you're going to see most of your deck most games you're totally fine.
The Deck

Commander: 1

Approximate Total Cost:

What's the Gameplan?
SPOILER
Show
Hide
The Early Game: In the first few turns, we want to ramp like any deck, and any opener that includes Rings, Signets, Atlas, and other rocks is a good opener. We are also thrilled to loot, and definitely want to cantrip and draw through our deck while stocking our graveyard with goodies. Don't be afraid to discard stuff like Devil's Play, Divine Reckoning, and other more expensive flashback spells - we're generally happier to fork them out of the 'yard later anyways. When you can, you want to develop value engines that trigger off of spellcasts. In terms of Sevinne, judge your table - if the game is fast and you are under pressure, an early Sevinne can keep a lot of pressure off. But in a slower game, waiting until you can cast him with mana up to protect him or get immediate value off of a cantrip/looting spell out of the 'yard is the right play.

The midgame: Use your removal sparingly and judiciously to protect yourself and keep the board manageable. Chip in damage from tokens and triggers where you can. Play politically, avoiding angering too many players and staying "out of and above" the fray unless you must intervene to not lose. Your various engines should mean you never lack for cards or options. Deep Analysis and Chemister's Insight reload your whole hand assuming you have at least one of Sevinne, Secrets, Kelpie, and Resonator on the table and it goes up from there, nevermind what happens if you can cast Ignite the Future with Sevinne live. You can get back whatever you need, over and over and over, with Runic Repetition + Mystic Retrieval. You can also just durdle away, drawing an extra 2-3 cards a turn with Oona's Grace or Glimpse of Freedom which crucially don't exile themselves. Pariah and Prismatic Strands are clutch at buying you whole turns to keep assembling and grinding your engine. Keep hitting landdrops - you need to assemble a strong mana advantage. Sevinne's Reclamation and Sun Titan are nice ways to "rescue" a dead value engine (most often Geistcaller or Guttersnipe), but I most often use them to ramp by targeting fetchlands and looted lands.

The Endgame:
This deck ends the game in one of three ways.

The most common way is Ral, Storm Conduit. The way this combo works, for the unfamiliar, will be to have any spell go on the stack (not from your yard!) with Sevinne, the Chronoclasm and Ral in play and Increasing Vengeance or Refuse // Cooperate in your 'yard. You then cast these from your 'yard, Sevinne copies it, and you can have the copy target the Vengeance or Cooperate on the stack to basically copy it ad nauesum until everyone is dead. This also works with no Sevinne and no graveyard-based need, if you have Vengeance AND Cooperate. While this feels narrow, it's more common than you think - you dig through your deck quickly, you can rebuy Increasing Vengeance with Runic Repetition if you had to burn it earlier, and once you resolve Ral it is extremely hard for an opponent to disrupt the combo, as you can just respond to any interaction with the combo. As a result, you basically never want to play Ral for value early if you can t all help it- you want to hold him until you can infinite with him.

The next most common way I've won is just burn. It's not uncommon since your threat profile is so low to be in a 1v1 shoot-out as one of the last players standing, at which point a Devil's Play for X=10, copied, is endgame. If the first blast doesn't do it, again, you can rebuy Play with Repetition until they die. You can also do a lot of burn damage with the Refuse side of Refuse // Cooperate (I've definitely killed someone by casting this on their 7 mana spell and then casting Increasing Vengeance on the Refuse), or by rebuying and spamming Blasphemous Act, Starstorm, or Star of Extinction while you control Stuffy Doll.

I've also won once or twice by managing to amass a horde of tokens and then cast Rally the Peasants + flashback Rally with Sevinne for a sudden +6/+0 to swing for 30+.

Those seem shaky, but the key thing is that with all your chip damage from Guttersnipe and Electrostatic Field and Burning Vengeance and Stuffy Doll and Mischievous Chimera, opponents are often in the 20s in the endgame.
Why Aren't You Running...?
SPOILER
Show
Hide
I've put in a fair amount of reps with this deck, and have reasoning for lots of things. Broadly speaking and as with any deck, you can group cards in two piles - cards I suspect or know are good but haven't tried for budget/time reasons, and cards I HAVE tried and can attest aren't very good:

The maybeboard: Cards I own, and mean to test soonish:
  • Careful Study, Frantic Search, Fact or Fiction: Looting is SO GOOD for us, I'm tempted to run these despite the lack of flashback. The tricky balance is running enough cards that trigger Sevinne while still running power plays.
  • Cyclonic Rift, Arcane Denial, Supreme Verdict, Chaos Warp, Wear // Tear: Same as above but for interaction. Wear//Tear is the most likely inclusion - Ray of Distortion has lost me a lot of games with its ridiculous cost, and it may just be the line at which the value isn't worth it.
  • Quiet Speculation: I own this as well, and it is on the testing list. The reason I haven't done so yet it that it feels really unnecessary. None of the combo we're trying to execute involves our flashback spells; we're flashing back for value. We're also not looking to win quick, so using this as it was used in Standard to go fish for Roar of the Wurms isn't where we are at. It is a great way to bypass the awkward first casting of Deep Analysis and that's a real consideration, but on balance I'm just not convinced that this isn't superfluous with all our digging power. If it could hit any instant or sorcery (and thus dump Farm // Market and Oona's Grace into the 'yard as well) I'd be all about it.
  • Cackling Counterpart, Quasiduplicate: We don't run enough hits for these to be meaningful in our deck I think. I am tempted to test that theory - it is sick to get 4 Guttersnipes - but I suspect on balance these are dead too often.
  • Pariah's Shield: Pariah is great, so reusable Pariah should be amazing right? I'm not totally convinced - 8 mana is a lot. I do own one and will get around to testing it eventually though.
  • Flash of Insight: This intrigues me, but seems like it is probaby bad. Demanding at least 2U up front to draw even one makes it worse than Think Twice, Radical Idea, Glimpse of Freedom, or Desperate Ravings, and it doesn't seem worth the possibility of making this dig deep if I have a ton of spare mana. The flashback cost is also awkward, way more awkward than Glimpse, since it has to eat real live blue cards instead of eating lands. I do feel like it merits testing but suspect Scour All Possibilities (which I just haven't tracked down a copy of) or a non-flashing spell like Frantic Search is just better.
  • Conflagrate: This is worse than Devil's Play at each point, but could also be spicy.

Good(?) and needs testing:
"Tier 1": I think these cards are auto-includes if you own them...I just don't. Yet. And in terms of investment, all of these compete with buying better mana for this deck.
  • Monastery Mentor - Down to $15 which isn't prohibitive but is a bit pricey for my blood. Obviously great if you can get it.
  • Brash Taunter - is a Stuffy Doll that snipes X/1s and can attack under a Rally. Seems amazing, unsure if it replaces Doll or gets played alongside it but I do want one.
  • Baral, Chief of Compliance - is an electromancer that also adds a loot to my counters. Nuts card, but hard to justify since the loot will be fairly infrequent. Again, not sure if this is just a strictly better replacement to Electromancer or if the deck wants both.
  • Primal Amulet // Primal Wellspring - Seems like it is just strictly better than Jace's Sanctum, I just don't own one.
  • Whirlwind of Thought - I despise the idea of running stuff that is "better in Kykar" but it's hard to deny how good this would be. I'm not sure if it replaces Jace's Sanctum, River Kelpie, or something else to get run alongside them but this is just obviously incredible in the deck, triggering on both sides of a Flashback spell cast and also triggering off mana rocks and other enabler pieces.
  • Narset's Reversal, Expansion // Explosion - These are two good forks. We aren't truly a "spell copy" deck, really, but it's hard to deny how great these would be in this deck.
  • Bonus Round, Doublecast: These would make it much easier to win with Ral and not Sevinne or stack trickery.
  • Saheeli, Sublime Artificer: Incredible card, just need to track down a copy. The ability is actually sometimes relevant - buy us another Gilded Lotus for the turn? And it makes tokens on the cheap while being slightly more resilient than a creature.
Tier 2: Cards I'm not sure are actually good but that probably ought to get tested:
  • Shark Typhoon, Metallurgic Summonings, Docent of Perfection // Final Iteration, The Locust God: I am grouping all of these together as "spellslinger value" cards. The thing is, the deck is slow. REAL slow. And we usually want to cast Sevinne on 5 (or 7 or 8 with mana up for immediate value, more often). So, these can be pretty hard to weave in. The current deck runs only one "value engine" that is more than 4 CMC other than Sevinne himself, and River Kelpie isn't a "do nothing" since it blocks and eventually at least cantrips by triggering itself with Persist. As a result, I suspect this deck is least interested in Summoning which is a true do-nothing, but I'm ambivalent about all of it.
  • Twinning Staff: On the face of it, this seems awesome but I'm a bit reluctant. I don't love the idea of a card that's only good with Sevinne AND a stocked 'yard, which is what this is going to be. Obviously that's plan A, we hope it all works out like that, but it isn't a guarantee. The activated ability is prohibitive and will almost never happen, so this is purely a "do nothing" while we wait to go off even harder for Sevinne. I want to test it, but I think there's a real chance it's a win-more card that is dead some amount of the time and doesn't "win more" fast enough to justify its spot. Still, I am currently running Strionic Resonator and 95% of that time that's just targeting a Sevinne trigger anyways...
  • Double Vision, Swarm Intelligence, Thousand-Year Storm: A sort of hybrid of the two complaints above - these are extremely slow "do nothing "spellslinger engines and we aren't a dedicated copy deck. These are spicy when copying a Devil's Play for X=7 (especially one already copied), but pretty lackluster when copying Glimpse of Freedom for one more card. Yes I am aware usually our Commander is just copying Glimpse for one more card. But our Commander does MORE than that, and I'm not sure I want to play a duplicate of our Commander who can't attack or block or get Pariah'd.
  • Pull from Eternity: I do own this too, just not sure on it. The idea is this is a cheaper Runic Repetition that puts it back in the 'yard for only one more casting, and/or this is a way to save a Runic Repetition that ate an exile effect. Those are both nice effects, I'm just not sold on it. But honestly, the more I think about it should probably be in the list.
  • Call the Skybreaker: I was so embarrassed to find I had zero copies of it, and haven't bothered to track other copies down. But in truth, maybe that's a good thing? This is obviously huge value with Sevinne, but seven mana is a lot. I suspect this is something we want and I do want to test it, but it may just be too slow for an already slow deck.
Have Tested or Theorycrafted and they aren't what we want: These are cards I've messed around with or thought a ton about, and have decided they aren't where this deck wants to be.
  • Backdraft Hellkite, Snapcaster Mage, Torrential Gearhulk, Recoup, Underworld Breach, Mission Briefing, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound, Past in Flames- The deck came with Hellkite and I did play a few games with Snappy and Recoup in the list before cutting them all. I also remember the internet nerd rage when it was revealed the precon didn't come with Past in Flames, as everyone assumed that should be his gameplan. These are among the most played cards with Sevinne, and certainly a way to build Sevinne would be to try and use these effects to copy Time Warps and Fact or Fictions and Frantic Searches out of the yard for infinite cosmic value. The thing is, that isn't how we actually want this deck to play. If you want to slam and copy the best spells in the game, there are commanders who do that without all the extra steps. You are better off cutting out the middleman and just playing Melek, Izzet Paragon or Riku of Two Reflections for dedicated forking, or playing Narset, Enlightened Master to cheat out massive backbreaking spells one after the other. These cards don't lean into Sevinne's niche of inexhaustible value and inevitability, and clutter up our deck. They're dead draws without other spells, and Sevinne is dead without these AND other spells. If you continue to run all your cards you can get your hands on that do combo with Sevinne, this is often superfluous as a way to maybe save a smidgen of mana on the flashback cost. It's just not where we want to be.
  • Fervent Denial - I have kept Ray of Distortion and am ready to die on that hill, but this is too slow even for us and doubling a counter is rarely meaningful.
  • Throes of Chaos - This is a popular add to Sevinne, but it does nothing with Sevinne (Cascade only works when the spell is cast, so a copy doesn't Cascade). Sure it does work with Vengeance/Secrets/Kelpie, but I want my flashback spells to work with Sevinne or not be in the list. The random cascading is also not really where we want to be.
  • Shattered Perception, Commit // Memory, Echo of Eons, Dusk // Dawn: These are similar to Throes - duplicating them doesn't actually do anything, and the value from triggering Kelpie, Secrets, or Vengeance just isn't worth it.
  • Battle Screech, Cenn's Enlistment: We have some token generation to play defense with or occasionally win out of nowhere with, but we aren't a dedicated token deck. Screech is surprisingly hard for us to flashback if the tokens don't live, and Enlistment is pretty weak. Enlistment was in for a long time and was frequently dead even with how great Retrace is as a mechanic for us.
  • Kykar, Wind's Fury, Elsha of the Infinite: We don't run these on principle. They will overshadow Sevinne every time. Real talk, Elsha isn't what we want for all the reasons I've mentioned we don't probably want spell doublers or Mettalurgic Summosn or Future Sight, and Kykar is a marginal enough upgrade over Talrand and Geistcaller as to not be missed in this deck.
  • Lightning Surge, Rolling Temblor, Volcanic Spray - I so wanted damage-based flashback removal to be good, but it just kept letting me down.

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

The best I ever came up with for Sevinne was Boros Reckoner tribal to capitalize on the damage prevention and run all sorts of group slug nonsense, but then I found that Vadrok, Apex of Thunder outclassed Sevinne there too. Poor Sevinne. I admire your tenacity making him work!

I like the idea of getting more forks, so Sakashima the Impostor and Spark Double to make multiple Sevinnes could be great for you. Helm of the Host might be too expensive, but your experience seems to be that the deck has lots of gas for long games, so maybe it would work.

Any thoughts regarding Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Dreadhorde Arcanist (I didn't see if had anything to pump him TBH), or Finale of Promise?

Stuff from your maybeboard that I would personally scooch right on up the list:

Whirlwind of Thought is Jeskai Ascendancy lite, and I'm stunned that you don't have the OG in there. It loots your flashback stuff and pumps/untaps your dudes. You've only got fourteen creature spells in the deck, so I feel like both of these are auto-includes. I wouldn't shy away because they are "better" in Kykar or any other deck; the fact is they are good here.

Narset's Reversal is another fork. Bonus Round is an amazing fork. Slap em both in your deck and toss in Turnabout as well and you've got your infinite with enough lands and Ral, Storm Conduit in play. Both will synergize with the rest of what you are doing too. Reversal is SO flexible: steals ramp spells early on, copies your best stuff later, and combos well - especially with other copy goodies since the copy of Reversal can bounce the original.

If you're looking to combo out, Brash Taunter can get you there pretty easily. Guilty Conscience is the easiest way; so good in fact that I won't stick Taunter in my Vadrok deck out of principle. Stuffy Doll does the same, but to only one player, so you'd need to bounce and recast somehow. Taunter + Pariah + Arcbond does it too.

Fun stuff. I'm looking forward to following along.
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

Pull from Eternity can be used to get back cards that have been exiled. So the classic example would be to put Mystic Retrieval back into your graveyard and then when you cast it bring back Pull from Eternity and another spell. This way you can just keep recasting spells indefinitely.

I have a version of Will & Rowan Kenrith that uses graveyard as a resource and these planeswalkers stand out.
Jace, Telepath Unbound, Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, Chandra Ablaze, Chandra, Flamecaller, Jaya Ballard, Jace, Memory Adept, Chandra, Flame's Catalyst, Chandra, Heart of Fire.
Getting cards into your graveyard is card advantage with all the flashback, jump-start, etc. So even using Jace, Memory Adept to mill 10 is card advantage.

I feel like running planeswalkers to go with creature sweepers is a great game plan.

I would try to get a some more fetchlands into the deck because of Sevinne's Reclamation. You want to be able to target 3 fetchlands when you do the flashback with Sevinne in play for Jeskai ultimate ramp.

I've been playing around with ideas around my Kalamax, the Stormsire deck and how using Torrential Gearhulk and Snapcaster Mage with various spells that copy or return to hand. So combining with Sublime Epiphany, Mystic Confluence, Cryptic Command for example.
So I guess the best example would be to cast Torrential Gearhulk targeting Sublime Epiphany. With Sevinne, the Chronoclasm you copy the the Sublime Epiphany. You can copy Torrential Gearhulk twice.
You draw 2 cards. Return Torrential Gearhulk to hand, plus another permanent, say an annoying opponents card. You can do this in response to a spell on the stack so counter a spell or even wait till there are several spells on the stack.
Because you get 3 x Torrential Gearhulk you can cast 2 other instants from your graveyard. Pull from Eternity would be perfect to put the Sublime Epiphany back into your graveyard, so that you can do this all over again next turn.

Underworld Breach is an all-star. It's abused in cEDH circles with Brain Freeze and using untapping mana sources like Dramatic Reversal, Frantic Search or Lion's Eye Diamond.
But you can look to use it in more fair ways. I like the idea of using a bounce spell to return each turn.
The example again would be Sublime Epiphany. You can cast Underworld Breach and cast Sublime Epiphany returning the Underworld Breach to do this each turn.

Dreadhorde Arcanist, Vadrok, Apex of Thunder, Wildfire Devils all look great creatures to use.
Finale of Promise and Mission Briefing are also perfect.
I would have more cheap cantrips like Ponder, Preordain, Gitaxian Probe, etc, to make it easy to get value off cards and Sevinne.
Then you can use cards like Jace, Telepath Unbound, Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Finale of Promise, Mission Briefing, Snapcaster Mage very easily to get double value.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
The best I ever came up with for Sevinne was Boros Reckoner tribal to capitalize on the damage prevention and run all sorts of group slug nonsense, but then I found that Vadrok, Apex of Thunder outclassed Sevinne there too. Poor Sevinne. I admire your tenacity making him work!
Thanks for the reply! Honored to have the forum representative for Kykar comment here :). Sevinne is definitely the screwup of the Jeskai family. He's got one trick - making Deep Analysis and Chemister's Insight into full reloads and Glimpse of Freedom and Oona's Grace into better Whispers of the Muse - and that's a preeetttty shaky niche for sure.
MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
I like the idea of getting more forks, so Sakashima the Impostor and Spark Double to make multiple Sevinnes could be great for you. Helm of the Host might be too expensive, but your experience seems to be that the deck has lots of gas for long games, so maybe it would work.
Good call on the Clones - I've been disappointed by Clever Impersonator, actually, and it's probably because he can't clone Sevinne or Talrand or Ral so he usually ends up cloning Sun Titan or Gilded Lotus. Those two you mentioned can't clone a Lotus, but can clone Sevinne, Talrand, and also Ral in the case of double and they all still clone a Titan just fine. I'll add them to the testing list, but I don't own a Spark Double and my only Sakashima is currently in Yuriko so it'll take some time. I do suspect Helm is way, way too slow, but I'm definitely interested in trying Spark Double in this list.
MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Any thoughts regarding Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Dreadhorde Arcanist (I didn't see if had anything to pump him TBH), or Finale of Promise?
I feel about Dreadhorde, Darkdwellers, and Finale the same way I felt about Snapcaster Mage, Recoup and Backdraft Hellkite in my initial testing - it's a lot of extra set-up as opposed to just running cards that flashback natively, and because I run so many cards that do Flashback natively, they're all really bad when targeting them. It's a totally different direction to run all of these with "better spells", but one that I think rapidly approaches the "why on earth are you still using Sevinne then?" line. The closest is probably Finale for how good it is in the end-game, although I think that I'd be even more likely to put Snapcaster back in or pick up a Mission Briefing.
MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Stuff from your maybeboard that I would personally scooch right on up the list:

Whirlwind of Thought is Jeskai Ascendancy lite, and I'm stunned that you don't have the OG in there. It loots your flashback stuff and pumps/untaps your dudes. You've only got fourteen creature spells in the deck, so I feel like both of these are auto-includes. I wouldn't shy away because they are "better" in Kykar or any other deck; the fact is they are good here.

Narset's Reversal is another fork. Bonus Round is an amazing fork. Slap em both in your deck and toss in Turnabout as well and you've got your infinite with enough lands and Ral, Storm Conduit in play. Both will synergize with the rest of what you are doing too. Reversal is SO flexible: steals ramp spells early on, copies your best stuff later, and combos well - especially with other copy goodies since the copy of Reversal can bounce the original.

If you're looking to combo out, Brash Taunter can get you there pretty easily. Guilty Conscience is the easiest way; so good in fact that I won't stick Taunter in my Vadrok deck out of principle. Stuffy Doll does the same, but to only one player, so you'd need to bounce and recast somehow. Taunter + Pariah + Arcbond does it too.

Fun stuff. I'm looking forward to following along.
I sorta derped on Ascendancy, and you are right - the card is probably secretly strictly better than Whirlwind of Thought in this deck. Looting is good, costing one less is good, randomly causing my spirit and drake tokens to punch harder is good, allowing Sevinne to actually kill attackers is good. All good all the time. I'll put it at the tip-top of my acquireboard. The tipping point is how funny it is with Walking Atlas which is definitely experimental right now, but the idea of chaining a ton of lands out makes me drool. Scaretiller stayed in for a loooooong time because this deck is so ramp hungry, so anything that has the potential to churn a ton of land out for me in Jeskai is pretty exciting.

I also think you're right on on Reversal, Bonus Round, and Turnabout. Turnabout is good even without being forked - it can be a fog if we're desperate, but often I just need "one big turn" to close things out, and it's an uberritual on those turns. I've for sure had a few games where just a little more mana is what I needed to, say, blow up a pesky enchantment and then Play someone out, and those games wouldn't make me want to run a pure ritual like Mana Geyser but I am totally onboard with a "pseudo-ritual" that's also a "pseud-Fog" when we need it. I think I have a spare laying around...

I definitely want Taunter, but am ambivalent on Conscience. It's a cheesy two-card combo but unlike Ral + Forks, it's a 2-card combo where one piece is sort of dead all game? Gotta think about it. I'm more excited by Arcbond as a cheap acquisition that could instantly end the game with Taunter and even be a huge flip with Pariah on a Geistcaller or Doll, because Arcbond is also just good in our deck as a surprise trick that turns combat into a meat grinder or turns Beacon Bolt into a boardwipe.
darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
Pull from Eternity can be used to get back cards that have been exiled. So the classic example would be to put Mystic Retrieval back into your graveyard and then when you cast it bring back Pull from Eternity and another spell. This way you can just keep recasting spells indefinitely.
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, this deck just wants Pull. It's probably better than Runic Repetition - missing out on getting to "cast it twice" is a small price to pay for Pull's ability to hit ANY spell (and not just cards with Flashback) and for Pull's ability to be cast at instant speed for just W. I think the deck ultimately wants both, but it's 100% going in on my next round of tweaks.
darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
I would try to get a some more fetchlands into the deck because of Sevinne's Reclamation. You want to be able to target 3 fetchlands when you do the flashback with Sevinne in play for Jeskai ultimate ramp.
The desperate, desperate need for fetchlands is a reason that it's so hard for me to justify spending money on anything else as an upgrade for this deck. I know how bad this deck wants more fetchlands. I go back and forth on putting Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse back in as a result, but they feel so bad. Myriad Landscape was in for a long time and was just way, way, too slow even for a slow casual deck like this. Fabled Passage is no longer crazy costly so that's probably my next big target. I want a Raugrin Triome too as a cyclable, fetchable triland. I might have a spare Bloodstained Mire now though, and I'm already running an "off-color" Fetch...so maybe I'll run that too.
darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
I have a version of Will & Rowan Kenrith that uses graveyard as a resource and these planeswalkers stand out.
Jace, Telepath Unbound, Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, Chandra Ablaze, Chandra, Flamecaller, Jaya Ballard, Jace, Memory Adept, Chandra, Flame's Catalyst, Chandra, Heart of Fire.
Getting cards into your graveyard is card advantage with all the flashback, jump-start, etc. So even using Jace, Memory Adept to mill 10 is card advantage.

I feel like running planeswalkers to go with creature sweepers is a great game plan.
Re: Planeswalkers - tell me more on Jace, Memory Adept? I get Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound and he's definitely on my list as a testing candidate. I don't own spares of the rest. I do own Adept though, and tend to dismiss him as a casual and cube card only - how good has he been for you? I know walkers + wipes is a great control plan, but its also one that feels like it interferes some with our Sevinne grind.
darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
I've been playing around with ideas around my Kalamax, the Stormsire deck and how using Torrential Gearhulk and Snapcaster Mage with various spells that copy or return to hand. So combining with Sublime Epiphany, Mystic Confluence, Cryptic Command for example.
So I guess the best example would be to cast Torrential Gearhulk targeting Sublime Epiphany. With Sevinne, the Chronoclasm you copy the the Sublime Epiphany. You can copy Torrential Gearhulk twice.
You draw 2 cards. Return Torrential Gearhulk to hand, plus another permanent, say an annoying opponents card. You can do this in response to a spell on the stack so counter a spell or even wait till there are several spells on the stack.
Because you get 3 x Torrential Gearhulk you can cast 2 other instants from your graveyard. Pull from Eternity would be perfect to put the Sublime Epiphany back into your graveyard, so that you can do this all over again next turn.

Underworld Breach is an all-star. It's abused in cEDH circles with Brain Freeze and using untapping mana sources like Dramatic Reversal, Frantic Search or Lion's Eye Diamond.
But you can look to use it in more fair ways. I like the idea of using a bounce spell to return each turn.
The example again would be Sublime Epiphany. You can cast Underworld Breach and cast Sublime Epiphany returning the Underworld Breach to do this each turn.

Dreadhorde Arcanist, Vadrok, Apex of Thunder, Wildfire Devils all look great creatures to use.
Finale of Promise and Mission Briefing are also perfect.
I would have more cheap cantrips like Ponder, Preordain, Gitaxian Probe, etc, to make it easy to get value off cards and Sevinne.
Then you can use cards like Jace, Telepath Unbound, Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Finale of Promise, Mission Briefing, Snapcaster Mage very easily to get double value.
Maybe someday I'll bite the bullet and try a configuration of the deck that cuts all the actual Flashback/Jumpstart/Escape/Retrace cards and just runs all the good Jeskai spells + the full arsenal of flashback granters - but it is not this day. Part of the charm of this deck is getting value out of Deep Analysis for 4-5 cards or using Oona's Grace every turn as a Catalog (at minimum). That stuff just "works" with Sevinne alone, no other combos required.

Sure, in theory I'd get even more value by Snapcaster Mage-ing a Fact or Fiction to look at 10 cards and keep 1-10 (on average 5.5), or building a better Catalog by Recouping a Ponder or Preordain, but that line of play requires more set-up, and more combinations of cards. That makes it overall less card advantage or a wash since I'm often spending two cards to get the engine started, and it makes Sevinne a total dead play until I assemble those combinations. Granted those spells are better on the frontend...but then we reach a point of "if Sevinne does nothing for 90% of the game and all my cards are so awesome without flashing them back, why aren't I just running Kykar/Shu-Yun/Elsha spellslinger with a few flashback granters to reload later?".

Sevinne is underpowered, and if we're underpowered I want to be all in on it to maximize the inexhaustible, indefatigable grind. I don't doubt that the Finale of Promise/Snapcaster Mage/Torrential Gearhulk/Underworld Breach/Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound/Recoup deck is a very powerful strategy especially with the plan you outlined of infinitely looping Hulks and Mages using Mystic Confluence and Sublime Epiphany - I wouldn't even dispute it's more powerful than what this deck is doing, But it isn't what I'm interested in doing with this deck, if that makes sense?

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

I definitely want Taunter, but am ambivalent on Conscience. It's a cheesy two-card combo but unlike Ral + Forks, it's a 2-card combo where one piece is sort of dead all game?
I was going to say that conscience and arcbond could combo with Sevinne too, but the damage is prevented. I forgot it's not merely indestructible on Sevinne. I wouldn't run it for just doll and Taunter then. Arcbond would let you combo with pariah + doll/taunter though, and it's good on it's own as a tricky board wipe/pk. Your instinct is good there imo.

Turnabout could also mean infinite mana in the late game with mystic retrieval and runic repetition maybe? Not sure, didn't math.

In addition to walking atlas synergy you could add manlands at a very low opportunity cost (replace temples maybe) and have fun with jeskai ascendancy suddenly being a ritual of sorts. Works better if you also have dorks like Silver Myr and co, but that's certainly not for every deck.

I respect not wanting to be a breach deck on principle. I will simply say this: if you were to add in Frantic Search and breach to go with faithless looting, you could burn through a lot of deck pretty quickly, exile some select few goodies, then pull some shenanigans with Mirror of Fate or forked runic repetition. @tstorm823 can learn you about mirror. I think he makes a copy then stacks the triggers or some such. My point is it would be a fun/underpowered breach strategy.
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
I definitely want Taunter, but am ambivalent on Conscience. It's a cheesy two-card combo but unlike Ral + Forks, it's a 2-card combo where one piece is sort of dead all game?
I was going to say that conscience and arcbond could combo with Sevinne too, but the damage is prevented. I forgot it's not merely indestructible on Sevinne. I wouldn't run it for just doll and Taunter then. Arcbond would let you combo with pariah + doll/taunter though, and it's good on it's own as a tricky board wipe/pk. Your instinct is good there imo.

Turnabout could also mean infinite mana in the late game with mystic retrieval and runic repetition maybe? Not sure, didn't math.

In addition to walking atlas synergy you could add manlands at a very low opportunity cost (replace temples maybe) and have fun with jeskai ascendancy suddenly being a ritual of sorts. Works better if you also have dorks like Silver Myr and co, but that's certainly not for every deck.

I respect not wanting to be a breach deck on principle. I will simply say this: if you were to add in Frantic Search and breach to go with faithless looting, you could burn through a lot of deck pretty quickly, exile some select few goodies, then pull some shenanigans with Mirror of Fate or forked runic repetition. @tstorm823 can learn you about mirror. I think he makes a copy then stacks the triggers or some such. My point is it would be a fun/underpowered breach strategy.
Oooh good point. To math it out - that loop would require me to have access to 15 mana (lands, specifically), since it is 9UUUUR each time we cast everything and we'd need to be floating 1 on each iteration to make it not just "infinite spellcasts". That still seems real good though:

- It's not that uncommon to have 15 lands on the battlefield in the endgame.
- Infinite castings at 14 mana can still be lethal with any of Ral, 'Snipe, Burning Vengeance, etc. on the battlefield.
- We can get that down lower with Pull from Eternity replacing Repetition on the loop; now the loop is 7WUUUR to execute so we can go off with 13 lands.
- We can dramtically accelerate it with Goblin Electromancer or Jace's Sanctum (cutting 4 lands out of that equation) or Catalyst Stone (cutting 2 lands) on the battlefield.

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

You would be highly incentivized to run Rav bouncelands too imo. Maybe something like Teferi's Isle too? Nykthos or lotus vale if you've got them.
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

User avatar
tstorm823
Knowledge Pool
Posts: 1041
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him
Location: York, PA

Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
I respect not wanting to be a breach deck on principle. I will simply say this: if you were to add in Frantic Search and breach to go with faithless looting, you could burn through a lot of deck pretty quickly, exile some select few goodies, then pull some shenanigans with Mirror of Fate or forked runic repetition. @tstorm823 can learn you about mirror. I think he makes a copy then stacks the triggers or some such. My point is it would be a fun/underpowered breach strategy.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be. The Mirror of Fate trick is to get two or more activations to make a Doomsday. This can either be done by cloning the Mirror (perhaps with Clever Impersonator), or by exiling the Mirror in response to its ability (perhaps with a Purify the Grave) so that you can choose Mirror of Fate as one of the exiled cards to restack the library. Is there probably a convoluted loop using Mirror of Fate, Purify the Graves, and Ignite the Future? Sure. But that requires thinking.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

User avatar
MeowZeDung
Posts: 1117
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

I suppose my thought was that exiling with breach did part of the doomsday construction so you wouldn't have to copy mirror or exile it in response to the trigger. @tstorm823 is right though, that's a lot cleaner and self contained. It's a cool way to get back some previously exiled flashback cards and/or set up one of your infinites.
Kykar primer and other active decks (click!)

User avatar
duducrash
Still Learning
Posts: 1199
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 3 years ago

Have you considered Bazaar Trademage ? Im testing it in Rielle and its fun so I remembered anout this post

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 3 years ago

duducrash wrote:
3 years ago
Have you considered Bazaar Trademage ? Im testing it in Rielle and its fun so I remembered anout this post
Hey, thanks for the suggestion!

Trademage has some value - it's a decent body, it flies to carry Rally pumps, it loots, and it is the perfect CMC to be brought back by Reclamation and Titan. I will keep it in mind. But I suspect that when I tweak the "looting"/"cantripping" engine of this deck I'm far more likely to add repeatable triggered looting (from Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound and Jeskai Ascendancy) or cheap instants/sorceries (Windfall, Tolarian Winds, Frantic Search, Cathartic Reunion, and even Breakthrough and Shattered Perception are all on the maybeboard) that can still trigger other prowess-y effects even if they don't all trigger Sevinne.

Got another game in this weekend, and Sevinne won. I won't chalk it up too much to much though, as it was a "Star" Game - five players, but I only had to "kill" the Arcades and Mirri the Cursed players opposite me to win with a little support from the Atla Palani and Anje players adjacent to me. A few notes though...

- I did end up winning with Rally the Peasants spam which was enough after amassing some tokens and taking some hits early. Don't sleep on it!
- I think the time has come to drop Ray of Distortion; I got lucky and Atla Palani Hull Breach'd all the bad stuff that Arcades was doing and my deck wasn't totally bricked by Sword of Feast and Famine, but in the endgame it still would have been a total tempo-killer to attempt to Distort those cards.
- I think I want another counter. They are a bit awkward, as we do often tap-out for sorcery speed nonsense, but they are really good (obvs). While cantrips with Young Pyromancer and Guttersnipe into Rally the Peasants (copied and recurred a few times) was what won the game, Dissipateing a removal spell aimed at Sevinne is what made it happen. I may actually replace Ray's spot with a counterspell (probably Arcane Denial or Counterflux)
- Strionic Resonator was really good to me, but mostly copied Sevinne triggers which is a nod in direction of just running Twinning Staff. The one advantage to Resonator is that Tribute Mage could hit it and Catalyst Stone but that's probably too much nonsense.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 2 years ago

It's been a while, but Midnight Hunt looks to be the gift that keeps on giving for Sevinne and I can't wait to try out some new stuff with him!

The must-runs:

- Fateful Absence - one of the best removal spells white's gotten in a long time merits a look even without any synergy.

- Galvanic Iteration - Holy cow ya'll, it's Doublecast at instant speed with flashback. I can't imagine a better card for Sevinne for going nuts or boostrapping the Ral, Storm Conduit infinite kill.

- Faithful Mending - One more mana up front over Faithless Looting to gain instant speed and life is a good deal, especially when the flashback cost is the same (albeit more cost intensive so it doesn't play as well with Catalyst Stone). Faithless Looting is arguably the best card in the deck, so an instant-speed copy (instant speed is awesome with Sevinne since he triggers "each turn") is a slamdunk inclusion.

The Test Candidates:
- Angelfire Ignition - I'm weirdly into suiting up Sevinne with this to crack in for some life and damage and to make him a better blocker. Also makes something like a Crackling Drake suuuuuuupppper lethal. At instant speed, it'd probably just be in; at sorcery it's a much harder sell. Certainly better in a more creature-centric version of this deck.

- Arcane Infusion - My rough hypergeometric calculator says we're probably 86% to hit with this with my current deck assuming this replaced an instant or sorcery already in the list. That's...fine...but since we only go up one card I can't imagine it's better than Radical Idea, Glimpse of Freedom, Think Twice, or Oona's Grace (all already in the list) and it's only even with Scour All Possibilities (which I still haven't hunted down a copy of). I'll probably pass, but if the deck (or your deck) is even denser on the Sorcery/Instant front, it's worth a look for sure.

- Cathartic Pyre - is a slightly worse Thrill of Possibility made better by the chance to be a Searing Spear instead? Maybe, but given how underwhelmed I was by Izzet Charm probably not. Significantly more jazzed about this in decks that don't have access to blue, although even there - this is mostly worse than Searing Spear and Thrill of Possibility/Faithless Looting so it's a rare deck that wants more.

- Memory Deluge - this is probably closer to must-run status? A 4 mana draw 2 is "fine" and something we're already running, but this also digs so deep and even deeper on flashback. I hate that 6 mana flashback cost, but this is so much control of our draws and deck. I'm excited to test it for sure.

- Ominous Roost - if these could block anything it'd be a staple as a more resilient Thalia's Geistcaller effect. Even with that weakness - this is still a very good card for us, one I'm interested to test.

- Patrician Geist, Vadrik, Astral Archmage: Slightly more expensive Goblin Electromancers with some fringe benefits. Meh. I'm not excited about that, but they may be good.

- Sacred Fire - I've tested out a lot of damage-based removal and found it wanting, but this has the advantage of being instant speed when Firebolt and Lightning Surge weren't. It probably still isn't good enough, but it's on my radar.

- Seize the Storm - on face value this seems like it ought to be great; it's a Crackling Drake that is easier on my mana, synergizes with itself better, and fits in with all my deck's other synergies! What's the problem? Well, first, the flying on Drake is pretty pivotal in allowing it to actually crack in and get some work done. Second, I'd say its one of the weakest cards in my deck currently so a card that's more of a side-grade can't be a slamdunk. I am still intrigued in testing it. Also notable (although minor) that it only tracks spells with flashback in exile, and not all instants and sorceries - so no interaction with the handful of Jump-Start and Aftermath spells in our deck.

- Vanquish the Horde - great boardwipe is great, but we do tend to prefer damage-based sweepers since Sevinne survives them and we even get extra value out of Stuffy Doll or Brash Taunter with them.

- Visions of Ruin - Okay, this could be good! If you nab enough artifacts on the front half it almost pays for itself; with Sevinne out maximum ruin on the backhalf is actually mana positive! The cost is heavy up front though (4 and 5); I just dropped Ray of Distortion because it was too expensive even with synergy. My meta also isn't one where I'm confident I'm gonna nuke 6 artifacts with this thing on the flashback, and it gets a ton worse if it's only eating 1 or 2 mana rocks. Worth testing but I'm not optimistic (oh, and I hate that its only in set boosters. Hate hate hate.)

The Not-Good-Enough (or not on brand enoughs) that need to be reviewed anyways:

- Devoted Grafkeeper: I'm normally all aboard the hype train for weird synergy effects to pile on, but tapping a creature just isn't good enough for us, especially when blind mill isn't ideal for us either and when Disturb doesn't actually work with Sevinne :(.

- Hallowed Respite: At sorcery speed this is just lousy; I'd take Silent Departure over it if I wanted disruption (and note I do not currently play Silent Departure), and it pales in comparison to Saving Grasp or Momentary Blink if you want to protect your cards. I'd be cool on it at instant speed, but it's wildly unplayable for us as a sorcery.

- Lier, Disciple of the Drowned: To repeat myself (after all, what else is a flashback deck good for) - we're not interested in turning our strong instants/sorceries into flashback spells, we're interested in just running good flashback spells. Hard pass.

- Light up the Night: This is Devil's Play #2...for a superfriends take on the deck. I don't run enough 'walkers to make this worth it compared to Play.

- Secrets of the Key: On the flashback this is three clues - but that means 10 total mana for 3 cards. Even for our durdlefest, we can do better. Would be stronger in a more artifact-centric take on the deck.

- Visions of Glory: I hate the distribution method for these cards, first of all. Second this is just infinitely worse than Increasing Devotion for us, even with the chance to not increase its flashback cost.

- Visions of Duplicity: Meh, this feels too cute to me. If we could trade our own useless dork tokens for opposing bombs that'd be great; shuffling perms across opponents is less good. At instant speed it'd still be a funny way to fog some combats or "gotcha" some folks; at sorcery this is wildly unplayable imo.

Furnok
Posts: 2
Joined: 8 months ago
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Furnok » 8 months ago

I know it's been a pretty long time for this thread but I'm trying to build a Sevinne deck of my own and I like what you've done here. Are there any updates to it from newer sets like Strixhaven and the like?

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 8 months ago

Howdy!

This is my current list on Archidekt: Deck Link

I haven't tested it a ton since making changes. I don't buy cards often so the only newer cards I have are ones I've randomly acquired - I finally got this deck a Faithful Mending, for instance. Also trying out Turnabout as mentioned in thread and Rowan, Scholar of Sparks // Will, Scholar of Frost as a better/cheaper cost reducer. I haven't had a chance to test since adding them in sadly. Sorry I am not able to be more helpful!

Furnok
Posts: 2
Joined: 8 months ago
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Furnok » 8 months ago

Hey thanks for the response! I like the inclusion of the planeswalkers and faithful mending. They seem to really help the deck along with casting and looting. I was wondering how you felt about adding more draw effects into the deck like Archmage Emeritus or increasing burn effects like Fiery Inscription etc. Would that make the deck run slower or deviate from the overall theme of just flashback spells?

User avatar
PrimevalCommander
Posts: 872
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by PrimevalCommander » 8 months ago

Increasing Vengeance, Increasing Devotion, Ignite the Future

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these three cards will only 1.5x the return when copied from the Graveyard rather than 2x due to the copy not being "cast" correct? I wanted to mention this since I am confident that is how it works based on my research of Delayed Blast Fireball and copying. If a Foretold Delayed Blast Fireball is copied, the copy itself was not cast from exile, so will only do 2 damage, not 5. Yielding a maximum damage of 7 instead of 10.

Increasing Devotion would make 15 tokens, not 20
Increasing Vengeance would copy a spell 3 times not 4.
Ignite would give you 3 cards for free and 3 cards to cast with mana.

I know you didn't say the flashback trigger is actually doubled, but I thought it would be relevant to add since this deck runs several cards that interact this way.

User avatar
Hawk
Slayer of Threads
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Post by Hawk » 8 months ago

Furnok wrote:
8 months ago
Hey thanks for the response! I like the inclusion of the planeswalkers and faithful mending. They seem to really help the deck along with casting and looting. I was wondering how you felt about adding more draw effects into the deck like Archmage Emeritus or increasing burn effects like Fiery Inscription etc. Would that make the deck run slower or deviate from the overall theme of just flashback spells?
I have rarely found this deck to be drawing dead or at a loss of things to do - honestly, Secrets of the Dead and River Kelpie have sorta felt like overkill. I don't think I'd run Archmage Emeritus as a result.

I do think there's a world where Burn cards are better. The vast majority of my wins are off Devil's Play or Refuse // Cooperate burn or Rally the Peasants on a token swarm. That's only possible or feasible with some chip, and I've always been happy to draw Guttersnipe and Burning Vengeance. I have no doubt more such effects would be great, especially if you wanted to move away from the durdly infinites or Stuffy Doll/Brash Taunter endgames.
PrimevalCommander wrote:
8 months ago
Increasing Vengeance, Increasing Devotion, Ignite the Future

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these three cards will only 1.5x the return when copied from the Graveyard rather than 2x due to the copy not being "cast" correct? I wanted to mention this since I am confident that is how it works based on my research of Delayed Blast Fireball and copying. If a Foretold Delayed Blast Fireball is copied, the copy itself was not cast from exile, so will only do 2 damage, not 5. Yielding a maximum damage of 7 instead of 10.

Increasing Devotion would make 15 tokens, not 20
Increasing Vengeance would copy a spell 3 times not 4.
Ignite would give you 3 cards for free and 3 cards to cast with mana.

I know you didn't say the flashback trigger is actually doubled, but I thought it would be relevant to add since this deck runs several cards that interact this way.
Good clarification, and correct. I've been impressed by all of these nonetheless, but certainly Ignite the Future is more of a fun-of than a necessary spell since you don't get that much free stuff.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Decklists”