Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

[pokken]

Stunt Double has almost always been good for me. Sometimes even great. I wouldn't put any clone above it (not even Phantasmal Image).

I almost pulled the trigger on buying new cards, but Hawk is still $3. It doesn't seem like a $3 card (and the others seemed high too). Since the sets just released, I suppose this is to be expected (and I have no desire to pay $35 for Fierce Guardianship).

I would be curious to know how much you miss Leonin Relic Warder. We went back and forth on that in my thread a bit before I finally caved. I wonder if Deputy of Detention is better in most cases? It can't get the permanent exile, but maybe it doesn't need to.

Salvager of Secrets is interesting but just seems to high costed. But, with blinking it and all that, maybe it works out. I am looking forward to hearing your summaries with the new changes.

Gonna be a while but once we get the new cards on MTGO I'll build it there.

I dunno man I bought my hawks at 2.50 and was happy to do so. I hope there's a foil of it in the masters set though

You would not believe how many times I flipflopped on relic warder vs. deputy while I was sitting there. The deputy foil is very nice looking though and it eventually won me over My very weird random thought about Deputy is that tokens are something this deck really struggles with, and being able to end token swarms is really nice.

Salvager of Secrets - I went back and forth between that and Mnemonic Wall but being recruiterable *and* reveillarkable is a pretty big advantage. I think with Ephemerate and Ghostly Flicker being my main routes to going over the top of other decks now, I need a second way to get them back, and there isn't a functional copy of Archaeomancer unfortunately.

I think specifically Ghostly Flicker and Ephemerate that Stunt Double makes a ton of sense. I didn't feel like I could lower the clone count but I think double *might* be better than Phyrexian Metamorph and I really want to fund out.

Looks like the restrictions might be gone here in June or so so I hope to get some games in then.

[pokken]

What finally made you cut Relic-Warder, after all the time I had tried to convince you to do it?
Also interested in what made you cut Windborn Muse and how you're going to deal with it.
Same for Land Tax.

I absolutely love Deputy and don't think it will ever come out of my deck. I face big amounts of tokens, as well as different types of permanents that manifest as threats, so it has never been dead.
Another thing that's important to mention is a weakness of the card - wrathing the board when you have it in play, thus leaving your opponent's threat as the only thing on the board, feels really bad. However you both have plenty of ways to reset it (i.e. Whitemane) and have cut board wipes, so this should be much less of a problem.

A card that I think you might want to consider now is Vesperlark. Most of the creatures you slotted in have <=1 power, it's awesome with blink engines, plus it's decent at holding swords if you'll want to reexplore that. I'd consider it instead of Karmic Guide now that the combo is gone - having to pay that echo cost each time you want value from it is a pain.

I can definitely see how Stunt Double dominates in fattie-rich metas, and always thought it was good for the deck. I think that Metamorph was a good cut for it, since copying artifacts with it was often overkill or not efficient enough, and the flash is much better than that. Obviously the phyrexian mana will be missed, but no biggie.

Honestly all the discussions we (and wizardmn) had on relic warder is what made me willing to consider it. I've had that in the back of my mind for a while. I think with Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft I now have a recruiterable way to get rid of stuff and that's mostly what warder is in there for.

I think Windborn Muse will be missed a lot, but in the end I think it's one of my weaker cards.

Vesperlark is very good. The thing with it is it can't get back Palinchron or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which are two things I am really counting on to be able to close games.

Main thing I will miss about Metamorph was being Enlightened Tutor findable, but I think in general E-tutor is now just a functional Mana Crypt or Smothering Tithe searchable.

[pokken]

So I just noticed I am drifting pretty hard blue, and I really feel the desire to pull Cryptic Command into this deck too, so I'm thinking I might need to add at least one or two blue sources.

I wonder if I were to add say, 1 islands and a Mystic Sanctuary and cut 2 plains, that leaves me with 11 plains for Emeria and 9 islands for mystic, not counting fetchlands of course (+8 or 9?).

Do you guys think that's enough?

edit: I could also cut Glacial Fortress or Sea of Clouds for another basic potentially, if basic types wind up being important on both ends I guess.

[shermanido37]

I definitely did recommend Cryptic before! And still do, especially now that it's gone down in price for some reason.
Mystic Sanctuary is a card that I slotted in myself, it's especially ridiculous with miracle cards like Terminus. Since I haven't managed to activate Emeria once, I gave up on it in favor of MS, and I have not regretted it. While activating Emeria is a tricky, game-length mission, MS is a much more attainable goal, especially with a high amount of fetches and dual lands. Furthermore, the payoff is bigger, and the consistency just can't be compared: since MS is an Island you can fetch it into play pretty much whenever you feel like it, and having it enter untapped is a huge deal in early mana-tight turns. Both of these together, in my opinion, beat Emeria's highrolly, unreliable nature. Also, once you cut Emeria, it's much easier to cut Plains without being nervous about it.

I still think that if you want to slot in more noncreatures - as you have before - Monastery Mentor is the way to go.
If I had to choose cuts, I'd probably slot Mentor over Kraken (recruitable synergistic card advantage for no additional mana, over non-recruitable card advantage for additional mana that prefers to work on its own), and Enlightened Tutor - I mean what bomb does that card fetch in your current list?

I'm also confused why you run the expensive Palinchron instead of Peregrine Drake, which is cheaper and recurrable with Reveillark. Surely the activated ability can't be that important in a deck full of blink effects?

[WizardMN]

You know, that is a good question. I think it is low. I have 14 Plains in my deck (10 Basics; 4 nonbasics) and I feel like that number has been pretty good so far. I don't lean real heavily on Emeria as it is, but I don't think I have really been slow in getting it online. I could see going down to 12, and 11 isn't much off of there. I know I wouldn't go below 10, even with the land fixing we have.

Note, you also have fetches which I don't so I would probably consider those Plains for this discussion. Which then puts you higher than me.

EDIT:

Since I haven't managed to activate Emeria once, I gave up on it in favor of MS, and I have not regretted it. While activating Emeria is a tricky, game-length mission, MS is a much more attainable goal, especially with a high amount of fetches and dual lands. Furthermore, the payoff is bigger, and the consistency just can't be compared: since MS is an Island you can fetch it into play pretty much whenever you feel like it, and having it enter untapped is a huge deal in early mana-tight turns. Both of these together, in my opinion, beat Emeria's highrolly, unreliable nature. Also, once you cut Emeria, it's much easier to cut Plains without being nervous about it.

The judge in me *really* wants to correct you there (so, I am going to): it isn't activated, it is triggered.

Otherwise I would actually agree. I am not sure the last time I actually got anything back with Emeria. But the opportunity cost is fairly low with it as it is, so I don't think it is necessarily something to look at to cut. But, maybe it isn't as much to focus on when things like Mystic Sanctuary exist.

[pokken]

I definitely did recommend Cryptic before! And still do, especially now that it's gone down in price for some reason.
Mystic Sanctuary is a card that I slotted in myself, it's especially ridiculous with miracle cards like Terminus. Since I haven't managed to activate Emeria once, I gave up on it in favor of MS, and I have not regretted it. While activating Emeria is a tricky, game-length mission, MS is a much more attainable goal, especially with a high amount of fetches and dual lands. Furthermore, the payoff is bigger, and the consistency just can't be compared: since MS is an Island you can fetch it into play pretty much whenever you feel like it, and having it enter untapped is a huge deal in early mana-tight turns. Both of these together, in my opinion, beat Emeria's highrolly, unreliable nature. Also, once you cut Emeria, it's much easier to cut Plains without being nervous about it.

I still think that if you want to slot in more noncreatures - as you have before - Monastery Mentor is the way to go.
If I had to choose cuts, I'd probably slot Mentor over Kraken (recruitable synergistic card advantage for no additional mana, over non-recruitable card advantage for additional mana that prefers to work on its own), and Enlightened Tutor - I mean what bomb does that card fetch in your current list?

I'm also confused why you run the expensive Palinchron instead of Peregrine Drake, which is cheaper and recurrable with Reveillark. Surely the activated ability can't be that important in a deck full of blink effects?

I'm so surprised people don't get emeria on. It's like every 3 games or so for me it feels like; to be fair Sun Titan + fetchlands figures prominently in those but also Weathered Wayfarer. Hmm. I've also gone off with clones+soulherder/thassa on other people's solemns a few times.

Palinchron goes infinite with Phantasmal Image on its own, is the main reason; one slot. If drake was 2 toughness I would run it instead. It also goes infinite with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and 7 blue pips which is not that hard to do.

I do think Monastery Mentor becomes very attractive with Ghostly Flicker + Mystic Sanctuary shenanigans. If I like how flicker plays I might see.

I've got a foil cryptic sitting here just couldn't quite make room; it is a VERY slow engine to cryptic+Archaeomancer but it is indeed an engine. 8 mana fog spam is not completely unreasonable.

My experience so far with Nadir Kraken has been that it single-handedly takes over games. It's the second best topdeck in the deck, or maybe third after Spellseeker - Recruiter of the Guard being the best. Definitely going to give it a while before I consider cutting it.

[WizardMN]

I'm so surprised people don't get emeria on. It's like every 3 games or so for me it feels like; to be fair Sun Titan + fetchlands figures prominently in those but also Weathered Wayfarer. Hmm. I've also gone off with clones+soulherder/thassa on other people's solemns a few times.

To be fair, my situation isn't usually that Emeria isn't on; it is that I don't have anything in my graveyard to get back. Part of this is being stingy with committing to the board, partly due to Timetwister, and partly due to timing of when I get it.

I just don't think I have done much when I get things back, but the potential is there.

[pokken]

To be fair, my situation isn't usually that Emeria isn't on; it is that I don't have anything in my graveyard to get back. Part of this is being stingy with committing to the board, partly due to Timetwister, and partly due to timing of when I get it.

I just don't think I have done much when I get things back, but the potential is there.

I always forget you play Timetwister.

I am always thinking about guide/lark/emeria (and previously double), and I often discard more expensive dudes to hand size just to set up emeria turns later. So that might be part of it too that I'm usually thinking about Emeria as my late game way to go over the top of people's sweepers.

[shermanido37]

The judge in me *really* wants to correct you there (so, I am going to): it isn't activated, it is triggered.

I phrase it the same way we phrase "activating" or "animating" Ephara but I do appreciate minds that don't skip the small stuff.

I'm so surprised people don't get emeria on. It's like every 3 games or so for me it feels like; to be fair Sun Titan + fetchlands figures prominently in those but also Weathered Wayfarer. Hmm. I've also gone off with clones+soulherder/thassa on other people's solemns a few times.

I only have the one actual fetchland, Flooded Strand, and I do not run Titan, with no regrets. Sad Robots are rarely encountered in my meta, and if they are they don't last long on the board, not to mention it's difficult to abuse Phantasmal Image with blink engines.

[pokken]

Yea I always have at least one other clone, and you can actually use herder/displacer/thassa as a sac outlet for image if you're reanimating it with titan or emeria too lol.

But a scenario I have run into a few times is Whitemane/Cloaker + Soulherder + Phantasmal Image, you can blink whitemane to bounce image since they don't target.

Sun Titan chain ramping is a thing that's won me countless games with fetches. When you get two titans live and start swinging with them it's usually lights out.

[shermanido37]

That's true, because in my games, if the playgroup let that happen, you have already won in a sense. Just slamming a Sun Titan in play, even if it's already late game, is ambitious.
The reason Ephara hatebears work so well in my group is that the small creatures each pose a threat that replaces itself with another - like death by a thousand stings. Sun Titan stands out from the weenies by being a giant one-card monster, so much so that they will immediately try and kill it and/or focus me down. I am not keen on 6 cost lightning rods... Elspeth is still there because she can protect herself and because she can win games on her own (and besides, no one has PW removal in EDH), and Elesh Norn is just an instant win against some decks and an asymmetrical board wipe otherwise.

Besides, as a weenies deck it's hard for us to justify copying our own hatebears instead of the opposing Seedborn Muse or Notion Thief.

[pokken]

I've found I really need to have some big plays and Titan is often just wildly efficient. The main reason I doubt i'll ever get rid of it is how good it is with Intuition making the packages that let you leave Karmic Guide in the library.

You've got plays like titan → get back soulherder → blink it at the end step.

I don't think I'd run it without intuition and fetches but as is it's always pulled its weight. If people want to burn their removal on it by all means

I will miss its interaction with Altar of Dementia though where I could always preserve it from exile removal (and it made intuition packages where you can guarantee altar with titan/guide).

[ISBPathfinder]

so........... been really slowly picking at ETB ephara for a bit. I will probably make a thread for it later but I figured I would dump it here for now. I know there are other commanders that could work well for this but I like how removal resistant my approach was where as when I was looking at the other options I kept getting the feeling that removal would be a problem for them. I really dig the cheap flickers as I think they have good timing and Ephara gives them really good value turning most of them into cantrips as well.

I avoided things like Deadeye Navigator and Eldrazi Displacer based on the mana it costs to spin them up. I think its a lot better to just run cheap things than worry about dumping a ton of mana into abusing a few times.

Brago, King Eternal got cut because he felt super slow. I get what he "could do" but without him in the command zone or access to flash / haste he just felt super slow and like he would just eat removal.

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

COMMANDER (1)

1 Ephara, God of the Polis

CREATURES (31)

1 Gilded Drake

1 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Burnished Hart

1 Deputy of Detention

1 Fiend Hunter

1 Nadir Kraken

1 Reflector Mage

1 Sea Gate Oracle

1 Soulherder

1 Archaeomancer

1 Elite Guardmage

1 Glen Elendra Archmage

1 Kor Cartographer

1 Restoration Angel

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Sower of Temptation

1 Thassa, Deep-Dwelling

1 Venser, Shaper Savant

1 Angel of Invention

1 Cavalier of Dawn

1 Cavalier of Gales

1 Cloudblazer

1 Ixidron

1 Karmic Guide

1 Lumbering Battlement

1 Mulldrifter

1 Reveillark

1 Yorion, Sky Nomad

1 Sun Titan

1 Torrential Gearhulk

1 Agent of Treachery

ARTIFACT (8)

1 Sol Ring

1 Soul-Guide Lantern

1 Arcane Signet

1 Dowsing Dagger

1 Sword of the Animist

1 Sword of Feast and Famine

1 Panharmonicon

1 Conjurer's Closet

ENCHANTMENT (2)

1 Opposition

1 Parallax Wave

INSTANT (20)

1 Cloudshift

1 Ephemerate

1 Essence Flux

1 Stubborn Denial

1 Cyclonic Rift

1 Flicker of Fate

1 Heliod's Intervention

1 Mana Drain

1 Turn to Mist

1 Unexpectedly Absent

1 Cackling Counterpart

1 Displace

1 Eerie Interlude

1 Fated Infatuation

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Force of Negation

1 Generous Gift

1 Ghostly Flicker

1 Ghostway

1 Force of Will

SORCERY (2)

1 Austere Command

1 Hour of Revelation

PLANESWALKER

LAND (36)

1 Arid Mesa

1 Command Tower

1 Flooded Strand

1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin

1 Gemstone Caverns

1 Glacial Fortress

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Irrigated Farmland

6 Island

1 Kor Haven

1 Prairie Stream

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Moorland Haunt

1 Myriad Landscape

1 Mystic Gate

9 Plains

1 Polluted Delta

1 Reliquary Tower

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Strip Mine

1 Tundra

1 Windswept Heath

Approximate Total Cost:

[pokken]

I very much appreciate people sharing their lists!

All the blink spells seem really fun. Cloudshift is gross with Archaeomancer guys.

I think you're correct in your assessment that you'll get away with a lot more with Ephara than with other more explosive commanders like brago or yorion or whatever. If your value engines present an immediate "Hey everyone we have to fight this or we die" then it changes the character of games quite a bit.

1. I think i would play Salvager of Secrets over Torrential Gearhulk despite the large body and free cast. The power level of the 'get a spell back' guys increases exponentially with your access to 1 mana blink spells. It turns any of those guys into Whitemane Lion + Pearl Medallion which is gross.

2. You look very light on tutors, but Recruiter of the Guard is just off the chain. The recruiter - soulherder chain, nuts. Spellseeker of course too, but I am sure you are intentionally skipping those guys.

3. Again tutor-related but I think I would play e-tutor over Conjurer's Closet. It finds thassa or panharmonicon or parallax wave which are both grotesque.

4. I would be really careful about playing Yorion in this deck. He's just so frigging nonsensical and creates a huge pile of triggers you have to explain in detail when combined with any of the other blink creatures. I played it maybe 3 times on MTGO before I was done with that interaction.


edit: Am I reading right that if you exile creatures grabbed with sower with Lumbering Battlement that they'll come back under your control when battlement leaves? Pretty sure Sower's static ability is gone when the card changes zones. That seems pretty strong if so.

[pokken]

Some just random noodling below about Spellseeker and how good it is with blink effects:

I've been thinking with the addition of the Ephemerate chains we have a pretty ridiculous set of lines that start with Spellseeker as well.

Spellseeker → Ephemerate Spellseeker → get Mystical Tutor tutor for Intuition,

Intuition for Archaeomancer Reveillark Salvager of Secrets

Upkeep rebound ephemerate Spellseeker for whatever (say, muddle to transmute for Sunscape Familiar). Another very expensive line might be to get muddle for snapcaster, snap intuition for Ghostly Flicker + Karmic Guide + Archaeomancer (lol).

Total mana investment is 8 to get started which is pretty good (3 ss, 1 mystical, 1 ephemerate, 3 intuition) and we end with Ephemerate chaining Salvager of Secrets for a Mystical Tutor for Ghostly Flicker and then stuff gets really ugly

I'm pretty sure if I had a Time Warp that could be used to set up an infinite turns chain - the problem is the setup takes two turns right now. If there was a functional second copy of Mystical Tutor you could Spellseeker for you could potentially do it during your upkeep when you ephemerate spellseeker.

If you threw in a fetchland in there for Mystic Sanctuary getting Mystical Tutor back maybe? I dunno.

Another line would be to get Enlightened Tutor with the second ephemerate on Seeker, e-tutor for Thassa, Deep-Dwelling in your upkeep, and be able to go salvager → mystical tutor, end step blink salvager for intuition and lols happen. Woof.

[ISBPathfinder]

I very much appreciate people sharing their lists!

All the blink spells seem really fun. Cloudshift is gross with Archaeomancer guys.

I think you're correct in your assessment that you'll get away with a lot more with Ephara than with other more explosive commanders like brago or yorion or whatever. If your value engines present an immediate "Hey everyone we have to fight this or we die" then it changes the character of games quite a bit.

1. I think i would play Salvager of Secrets over Torrential Gearhulk despite the large body and free cast. The power level of the 'get a spell back' guys increases exponentially with your access to 1 mana blink spells. It turns any of those guys into Whitemane Lion + Pearl Medallion which is gross.

2. You look very light on tutors, but Recruiter of the Guard is just off the chain. The recruiter - soulherder chain, nuts. Spellseeker of course too, but I am sure you are intentionally skipping those guys.

3. Again tutor-related but I think I would play e-tutor over Conjurer's Closet. It finds thassa or panharmonicon or parallax wave which are both grotesque.

4. I would be really careful about playing Yorion in this deck. He's just so frigging nonsensical and creates a huge pile of triggers you have to explain in detail when combined with any of the other blink creatures. I played it maybe 3 times on MTGO before I was done with that interaction.


edit: Am I reading right that if you exile creatures grabbed with sower with Lumbering Battlement that they'll come back under your control when battlement leaves? Pretty sure Sower's static ability is gone when the card changes zones. That seems pretty strong if so.

1. Offhand, I think that Archaeomancer is a little overrated and paying one more mana for it doesn't seem that appealing to me. I would rather burn them out and have instant speed with a bigger size. I think that flickering Archaeomancer will already bring a lot of hate and the incentive to use single effect flickers on it is really low. That leaves mass flickers or 2x target flickers that it tends to work with.
2. Recruiter of the Guard - My issue is that its just sort of..... value. I looked through my list and I didn't feel like there was anything other than Soulherder or Ixidron that I really would want to tutor. Recruiter into Soulherder is like, more mana than casting Conjurer's Closet. I actually think that in a lot of cases I just run it for value and I didn't see much in my list that I really felt like I was going to maybe want to tutor for. I just think that there would need to be more things that I would want to tutor for and even then its like, what if Green Sun's Zenith cost 2GX to cast? I think there would need to be a bigger list of things I want to tutor or with higher priority in tutoring them.
3. Hummmmm yea I guess I could see that.
4. I didn't think about the other flicker creatures but I think I only have like two of them now and I could always just choose not to go infinite with it. I might spin the list up without it first since companions are still expensive to buy being new and all. I would sort of rather keep it in the list than the flicker creatures offhand which would eliminate the infinite potential.

Yea there is no way to lose things to Lumbering Battlement as it isn't templated to allow that. It also lets you pick what to exile upon resolution. Battlement with Sower could be spicy.

[pokken]

Remember recruiter for soulherder is an extra recruiter trigger over closet, and a significantly better topdeck than closet on an empty board. Not insanely mana efficient, but still very good.

Recruiter's stock goes up a bit with clones and spellseeker where recruiter for soulherder into spellseeker in hand likely spells an unstoppable value train.

I won't swear by too many things but recruiter in ephara is bonkers. It's the second trigger off herder that really gets it done.

[shermanido37]

I think that instead of Lumbering Battlement, a conditional card that requires quite a bit of tinkering, I prefer simply flickering the mind controlled creature with Thassa, Deep-Dwelling, which we play anyway. If you'll look at how the ability is worded, the creature simply returns under your permanent control.

I see Recruiter and Spellseeker as the two non-negotiable best ETB cards in our colors, even more so than Whitemane and Stonecloaker. At least that's true for a Hatebears build, and the only cards that might contest them are Snapcaster and Gilded Drake... If you're aiming for a more mana expensive value deck their power goes down, but they are still strong engines that can solidify and provide consistency.

[pokken]

I think that instead of Lumbering Battlement, a conditional card that requires quite a bit of tinkering, I prefer simply flickering the mind controlled creature with Thassa, Deep-Dwelling, which we play anyway. If you'll look at how the ability is worded, the creature simply returns under your permanent control.

The advantage I see with battlement is if you put Sower of Temptation under Lumbering Battlement, when you end step blink Lumbering Battlement with Thassa, Deep-Dwelling's trigger you get another creature every time - I think.

So say you have Joe's Solemn Simulacrum from sower, and thassa on board. You play Lumbering Battlement it blinks everyone except Thasas (sower + Solemn). Solemn + Sower get exiled under battlement.

End step, you Thassa flicker Lumbering Battlement.
Battlement leaves, returning solemn + sower and putting its own trigger on the stack along with theirs.

All those triggers go on simultaneously since they happen at the same time. You place battlement's trigger on first, then solemn, then sower.
* Sower resolves you get a creature
* Solemn resolves, get a land
* Battlement resolves, everything re-exiles under battlement including the new creature.

At least, I am fairly sure that's how it works. I don't know that I can support battlement due to lack of ETB effects but in the ETB-focused build I *think* it makes a lot of sense with the end step blink guys (since you functionally get to blink your entire board every time you blink it with Thassa/Soulherder).

@WizardMN I get that right?

He did not get that right.

610.3. Some one-shot effects cause an object to change zones "until" a specified event occurs. A second one-shot effect is created immediately after the specified event. This second one-shot effect returns the object to its previous zone.

610.3b An object returned to the battlefield this way returns under its owner's control unless otherwise specifies

[WizardMN]

Anything exiled under Battlements goes back to is owner since it doesn't say otherwise. So, you steal their Solemn, exile it with Battlements, and then it returns under their control. They get the land and the Solemn and you steal something else with Sower. And stealing Solemn won't let you steal the trigger.

And, importantly, since Sower left the battlefield, the control effect giving you control of Solemn has ended (even if we ignore Solemn being a new object now anyway).

[pokken]

Anything exiled under Battlements goes back to is owner since it doesn't say otherwise. So, you steal their Solemn, exile it with Battlements, and then it returns under their control. They get the land and the Solemn and you steal something else with Sower. And stealing Solemn won't let you steal the trigger.

And, importantly, since Sower left the battlefield, the control effect giving you control of Solemn has ended (even if we ignore Solemn being a new object now anyway).

I didn't know that bit about things going back to their owner unless it says otherwise. I assumed it would work like "then return that card to the battlefield under your control." So if you go to plop a stolen creature under Lumbering Battlement it will always come back under the owner's control regardless, more like "then return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control."

Ah, I see. There.

610.3. Some one-shot effects cause an object to change zones "until" a specified event occurs. A second one-shot effect is created immediately after the specified event. This second one-shot effect returns the object to its previous zone.

610.3b An object returned to the battlefield this way returns under its owner's control unless otherwise specifies

[ISBPathfinder]

Thanks for all the insight. I will spin up a new thread rather than continue to derail this but I figured I would list the changes I had planned to make to the list beforehand.

• Restoration Angel → Phantasmal Image I fought a little with the fact that I can't target flicker the image but I think it makes up for some of that with being cheap. Technically its still something that could go infinite with Yorion but I believe its one less infinite option with Lumbering Battlement. I was also convinced to include Recruiter and so it opens up another option for Recruiter to retrieve as I didn't really have any clones in the list before this.
• Sea Gate Oracle → Recruiter of the Guard Ok, I will give it a shot. I am pushing to expand the targets for this a bit more too.
• Conjurer's Closet → Enlightened Tutor I like this swap. I had overlooked the fact that Thassa, Deep-Dwelling is also an enchantment as I am just not that used to her yet.
• 1 Island → Mystic Sanctuary Oh yea, I probably want this land lol. I kind of copy pasted an old UW landbase in for the most part and called it good.
• Torrential Gearhulk → Spellseeker I suppose Spellseeker can be used sooner and brings the curve down a little. It also expands the Recruiter toolbox.

[pokken]

2020/05/28

Cut 2 plains
Add 1 island 1 Mystic Sanctuary

Feels like I need to rebalance my island count a bit with the move to more blue spells. I may add some more yet. Mystic sanctuary feels like a really nice option to have -- might be better to play this than Salvager of Secrets so that card is definitely on the watch list.


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Looks like I will get some webcam games in Friday night I think, so pretty excited about that. I feel like the new build is a bit iffy, a couple things that concern me:

1) Not having an open sac outlet feels like it might change some things about how the deck plays
2) Not having Land Tax to fill my hand up feels like it might change the way the reanimation stuff works
3) Still not sure hawk is good
4) The palinchron infinite mana combos may not have enough outlets.

[pokken]

I only got one game in tonight, it was a doozy - basically archenemy from the getgo, partially due to a mistake on my part of going for a slow line of setting up multiple rifts vs. a vast line of setting up intuition lines. I think I could have still won pretty handily had I countered a wheel instead of letting everyone draw 10 - was just bad magic. Force of Will was really damned good - I just didn't cast it because I'm still figuring out some of the new config.

Not too many detailed notes on the game, but fundamentally the new configuration is nice. I saw Cartographer's Hawk and it was just as slow as I expected. It would have been quite good had I made the correct lines of not going to aggressively for Rift. It did ramp me one, but could have easily been 3 or 4.

It's also a bit more intricate, it feels more like the Timestream Navigator version where I had to work really hard to set up the win states.

I did get emeria online (of course) and nearly set up a table kill but lost due to yet another misplay - not respecting the gruul deck's ability to put a ton of power up with blasphemous act+vigor combo. I could have held rift instead I got cute.

I also forgot my mana drain mana at the beginning when I could have set up the rift-lock.

I'm *super rusty* since I haven't been playing MTGO either. Need to get my Hawk and get some games in

[pokken]

So the new deck is indeed pretty good. I won with palinchron combo + infinite blinking Charming Prince (presented an they scooped) scry into top into venser. Displacer+Palinchron is really good.

I also did a really sweet thing where guy was windmill slamming Ugin and I did Intuition for Mana Drain + Palinchron + Fierce Guardianship then when he gave me Palinchron I Ghostly Flicker'd Snapcaster Mage for Mana Drain, setting up the win turn. Because of all the extra Mana Drain mana from Ugin I was able to cast Glen Elendra Archmage for protection first which was very nice.

Intuition is a helluva card.

Another cool thing I did in that game was Spell Queller a Font of Mythos, then Ephemerate it after the other players' turns, then during my upkeep Ephemerate'd Snapcaster Mage to cast Mystical Tutor for Ghostly Flicker

The blink spells and Snapcaster Mage are way better than I had considered.

I would have had a really super sweet line this game to with Misty Rainforest for Mystic Sanctuary into Ghostly Flicker + Palinchron lock, but I forgot to put the sanctuary in my MTGO build

Anyway I think it's solid and I need to play it a bit more. I may need to add Cloudshift at some point so I'm scrounging for a foil for that.

The ability to transmute Muddle the Mixture for Charming Prince was something I had not thought of before once I have infinite blinks online - he lets you scry to whatever you need e.g. Venser, Shaper Savant then win on the next upkeep when you draw it. In this case I had Top which was nice.

Remorseful Cleric put in an appearance and exiled mono white's graveyard when they were about to go off with Emeria Shepherd which was very nice. Haven't had it do anything for a while.

Final note: I have not lost a game to a group hug deck that I can think of. The mono white font of mythos/howling mine/mikokoro deck was pretty powerful - lots of good cards and stuff. But if I get to see 10 extra cards you're gonna have a bad game. I really hate them because of how they accelerate the pace of the game.