Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

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Post by Wallycaine » 3 years ago

shermanido37 wrote:
3 years ago
Ranar does not work with Containment Priest, since he works only when exiling cards from your hand or the battlefield.
I think the implication Pokken was going for is that decks that are focusing more on the Containment Priest machine gun would likely have more sources of blinking opponent's creatures, which is a strong way to get value off both Containment Priest and Ranar the Ever-Watchful.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

The other huge limitation with him is that it's not scaling, so winds doesn't turn into make 20 spirit tokens :P Bleh.

There's some cool angles there for sure.

Wally's dead on btw re: containment priest. If you're focused on displacing/mistmeadow witching/flickerwisping your opponent's creatures forever with priest, that makes ranar a lot better.

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Post by shermanido37 » 3 years ago

There's been a leak regarding the Foretell ability, and while it's rather flexible, it still requires you to activate the ability during your turn. So abusing Ranar the Ever-Watchful during opponents' turns is now clear to be very limited, which makes it a lot less appealing to be tried out. Plus his second ability only saves you 2 mana per usage, which is pretty weak.

I also got a game in the other day and the deck ended up almost winning the first game and definitely winning the second one, all while remaining very dominant most of the time.
first game
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During the first game, an early Lavinia, Azorius Renegade was absolutely backbreaking for my opponents, delaying Lord Windgrace from hitting the field, and completely stopping Maelstrom Wanderer in their tracks until they managed to bounce it.
However I was in dire straits, since I wasn't drawing well and since the Infect player was targeting me with flying infect creatures. I don't remember how, but somehow I managed to scrape enough card draw and chump blockers to come across Nadir Kraken that started even more card draw for much less resources, so I continued desperately digging for an answer while at 9 poison counters.
Funnily enough Lord Windgrace ended up Obliterateing the board while I still had some 4-5 lands in hand, so I actually managed to start recovering. It was a lost cause, though, since Windgrace brought a bunch of lands into play with their ability then cast Wildfire to destroy the few resources I had left.
second game
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The second game was a bit more blurry. Early game was much more balanced - I managed to lay low as the Infect player started going at Windgrace, but that was probably because I was mana flooding so hard.
A card that managed to get my well-earned respect is Scroll of Fate. I drew lands for like 5 turns even with Land Tax pulling basics out of my deck. Turning them into flash 2/2s was absolutely stellar, because it got rid of dead cards, drew me new ones, and made blockers - which were absolutely critical since I was also being targeted by the Infect player and since their commander was Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, I couldn't let myself gain even a single poison counter. Scroll drew me like 7 cards and saved my butt a bunch, and together with Forbid that proved unstoppable, they managed to get me through that phase.
When I managed to find some good hits, Deputy of Detention and Skyclave Apparition were both absolute stars. The way we understood the rules, if Apparition targets a commander in play, and the opponent chooses to put their commander into the command zone after going into exile, they don't get a token when Apparition leaves the field. So I just kept blinking them - and Apparition in particular - in order to repeatedly take Atraxa out of the game, with Soulherder (which was easily killed) and then with Thassa, Deep-Dwelling. Thassa in particular was stellar because she functioned as an indestructible creature, a blink engine, and a defense mechanism - tapping down a fat attacker with her last ability to save my butt.
Finally, after Windgrace killed the helpless infect player that had nothing left, I kept defending against them (which was difficult because of their massive mana and their Kessig Wolf Run), pitched Knowledge Pool to Scroll of Fate, and drew for my next card... Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I played it on my turn, blinking Pool with Thassa then having it return to play face up, the lock was now intact. The game was won on my following turn, playing a cheap creature, exiling it then casting their Evolution Sage instead, playing a land drop and proliferating their 9 poison counters to 10.
Those were some exhausting games but definitely leveraged the deck to its best ability. That same day I acquired Hullbreacher in a trade (I'll sorely miss you, Umezawa's Jitte), and hopefully my delivery will arrive soon, giving me Archon of Emeria and some more juicy updates. I still need to get my hands on a copy of Keeper of the Accord, though.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Lol that proliferate win was sick. I love doing wild stuff like that.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago



This is a pretty decent card. It needs to be 1W for me to think about playing it, but it's pretty strong. Maybe if there was a combo piece I wanted to play that's Snow or something? I keep hoping for an open sac outlet on a white creature :P

I do like that White's getting some more tutoring though, and wouldn't mind seeing more of the Thalia's Lancers effect in general.

Not really that much else going on in this set yet though sadly.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Couple cards jumped out today:



This card is deceptively good. Basically, trigger Ephara for 1W every turn, and in a 1 CMC body where you can tutor for it and so on. And add to your board state. I think it's not quite good enough for my build but I could see it playing in many Ephara builds. Particularly good in any build looking to leverage Proclamation of Rebirth and Ranger of Eos.



This is a really powerful hatebear that really suffers from being hard to find. The effect is very deceptively strong, in that it craps on a ton of things people want to do to win games. The back side is a pretty effective deterrence to combat, making math very, very awkward.

I don't think I will play it but it's definitely very good and playable in at least some Ephara shells. I'll likely get one as the art is very nice.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago



Might be playable but is definitely beautiful. I'll have to noodle on it, see if I can find a foil one. 6 mana and a land is a lot to draw 2 cards but it can be sandbagged which is nice.

Wish it was Plains :)

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Post by Wallycaine » 3 years ago

I'm curious how you think Usher of the Fallen is going to trigger her every turn. Boast can only be used if *this creature* attacked, so outside extreme shenanigans, you can only activate boast abilities on your own turn.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
3 years ago
I'm curious how you think Usher of the Fallen is going to trigger her every turn. Boast can only be used if *this creature* attacked, so outside extreme shenanigans, you can only activate boast abilities on your own turn.
I meant every turn of yours of course. Effects that trigger Ephara during your turn for very low mana costs have been proven to be pretty decent. It basically is like you semi-permanently have a 1W 1/1 in your hand, which is fairly powerful when you do not want to over-commit in particular.



This card is...really awkward but really really good I think? We're not likely to have a ton of vehicles, but man guaranteeing hitting your land drops virtually is nice.

The downside is it's not something people are going to love, people hate having their library exiled from.

It's definitely by far the most interesting design of the set in my opinion though.

From a sequencing perspective:
1. Play Cosima, wait a turn and exile her
2. Play a fetchland, put a voyage counter on her
3. Fetch, Cosima comes back as a 3/5 and you draw 1
4. She triggers Ephara for the next upkeep

It's a litttttle slow. But being able to potentially stack a bunch of counters on her and bring her back later as a bomb is pretty sick.

I think her ability could really have stood to trigger at the end step but it might be good enough to see some play? We're rarely going to stack a ton of land drops, but some combos of cards (keeper, blinking knight of the white orchid, sun titan, brought back) may end up with pretty explosive potential draws.

The nicest part about it is it's another explosive source of card advantage that almost can't be interacted with.

She'd probably be best with a couple ways to flicker lands like Venser, the Sojourner and Flickerwisp.

GOnna have to noodle on that.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

I am not sure Gates is that much better than Blighted Cataract. Obviously, there are enough differences (taps for White, but enters tapped; costs 5 instead of 6 but has a heavier color requirement; gains life). I am thinking if we don't want Cataract, we don't want this.

If it was a Plains though....it would probably be far easier to include it.

As for Cosima, I didn't realize what the front face of that card was (just saw the Vehicle back face) and I think that is a shoo-in for the deck. Just playing a land gets us a "free" creature, or we can store up counters for a while for some cards. I can't imagine not wanting to play this card in this deck. Turn 3, Cosima, turn 4 exile it, play a land have it enter, play Ephara, draw next upkeep.

It more than replaces itself in this deck (though the sequencing could be odd sometimes) and the ability to just store things up is pretty nice.

And it will almost for sure make it in Sygg, but for the Vehicle side instead. Which is still decent in this deck, but I think I much prefer the creature side for Ephara.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Yeah I don't think gates quite fast enough for me, but it's passible. Tapping for white makes it significantly better than cataracts for me, but yeah, just not quite good enough.

Cosima, God of the Voyage has just a ton of relevant text on both sides, being able to crack a fetch later and get another Ephara draw is really good too. It's just a bit weird in that it doesn't proc until the next upkeep, which has me wondering if it might be a hair too slow, but basically every word on that card is good for us on both sides.

The vehicle side virtually guarantees you'll be hitting your land drops most of the game, although some tables will have more blockers than others. I think it's a shoe in for Sygg, River Cutthroat and kinda makes me want to put scrape some kinda cars deck together with a lot of Exploration effects. The only bad part about it is keepin track of the stuff you play from other people could get quite tiresome.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Wow, I did not expect a strict autoinclude in this set, at this stage int he spoilers.

glorious guardian


This card is bonkers. 3/4 flying, flash, protects your entire board, can be foretold to reduce the cost, etc. Too many good things going on there.

The ability to use it to hide Ephara as an instant is absolutely, well, bonkers. Seriously cash money this card.

--------------------------------------------------

The ability to use plus Soulherder to blink your entire board is just bananas too. It makes me want to slot Yorion, Sky Nomad in there to stack up the blink chains.

I'll have to think a lot about this and how it affects the design; might be I could think of a way to generate overwhelming advantage that doesn't require the altar sac plan.

It's possible there's an infinite combo that's more efficient buried in there somewhere too, gonna need to noodle on it

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Post by shermanido37 » 3 years ago

The one drop is an instant cube playable, but doesn't do much for more expensive formats.

Cosima just feels slow and clunky and doesn't actually accomplish anything. Maybe if you don't have a lot of playables.

Reidane is backbreaking in a snow meta, but pretty niche otherwise. My friend's cube is running basics as snow lands so it will probably be included there, and it will probably be powerful in standard, but I can't see it being run in any other format.

Glorious Guardian is like Restoration Angel combined with Mistbind Clique. The flexibility is undeniable. However, it's a big no-no for anyone running Containment Priest. Let me know if you find some combo applications.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Unfortunately, the only obvious combo application I could think of is that if we had a non-angel Karmic Guide printed someday, it would go infinite with altar. The non-angel clause combined with not being reveillarkable kinda kills its utility.

What we need is a way to get rid of it after it's down, or to have a blink trigger on it aimed under its own trigger, and there's nothing I can find that enables that yet.

It definitely enables overwhelming advantage kinda like Yorion, Sky Nomad where you can just stack up so many ETBs people can't recover. But fundamentally it's basically just a more affordable Lumbering Battlement with flash. Which is awesome since that card was borderline playable as is. Having Flash is the main advantage over battlement.

As a combo piece it's mostly winmore; it really needs some kind of repeatable blink to go infinite, and most of those things need a land untapper to go infinite, and if they are infinite already you win with any other good blink target already.

I will say that it has a niche application of enabling Eldrazi Displacer to go actually infinite with any good ETB + Peregrine Drake with only a single colorless land -- whereas previously you needed two colorless lands to be able to infinitely blink your secondary target. But I can't see that being all that great. Palinchron already does that and Drake is a pretty bad card in my opinion.

I think the most likely way this thing gets broken is if we get a Karmic Guide variant that is not an angel (say, an Archon or a Human).

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Post by shermanido37 » 3 years ago

One of the reasons I'm interested in alternate strategies for this deck is because I'm building a second version of Ephara.

My friends and I recently joined with a new playgroup, and they are super duper casual and aren't very good at deck construction.
So my friend and I took it upon ourselves as a challenge to construct "The Other 99" versions of our decks. The Other 99 means that other than basic lands, no card that's run in the main version can be run in the second version.
The immediate conclusion is that this second list will be significantly worse, since it's now impossible to run Sol Ring, Command Tower, Hallowed Fountain, Land Tax, and other cards that make Ephara's life incredibly easier. It also means that Ephara staples like Whitemane Lion are out of reach.

However, it also means that the opposing deck will be in just as much trouble setting themselves up as we are in, so the demands for the deck are significantly lower. Cards that didn't make the cut for competitive Ephara, but still have potential to be busted, are suddenly great to have again. Aetherling, Mistmeadow Witch, Deputy of Acquittals, and other random flash cards have the opportunity to shine.

I'm not going for alternate themes like lifegain or tribal, because I'm trying to demonstrate that even without the most competitive or expensive cards, and even without the most mana consistency, an EDH deck can pack an incredible punch if you build it right.
I'm also looking to try some single cards that show promise while not being overpowered, like Portal Mage. Do you have any ideas?

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

shermanido37 wrote:
3 years ago
One of the reasons I'm interested in alternate strategies for this deck is because I'm building a second version of Ephara.

My friends and I recently joined with a new playgroup, and they are super duper casual and aren't very good at deck construction.
So my friend and I took it upon ourselves as a challenge to construct "The Other 99" versions of our decks. The Other 99 means that other than basic lands, no card that's run in the main version can be run in the second version.
The immediate conclusion is that this second list will be significantly worse, since it's now impossible to run Sol Ring, Command Tower, Hallowed Fountain, Land Tax, and other cards that make Ephara's life incredibly easier. It also means that Ephara staples like Whitemane Lion are out of reach.

However, it also means that the opposing deck will be in just as much trouble setting themselves up as we are in, so the demands for the deck are significantly lower. Cards that didn't make the cut for competitive Ephara, but still have potential to be busted, are suddenly great to have again. Aetherling, Mistmeadow Witch, Deputy of Acquittals, and other random flash cards have the opportunity to shine.

I'm not going for alternate themes like lifegain or tribal, because I'm trying to demonstrate that even without the most competitive or expensive cards, and even without the most mana consistency, an EDH deck can pack an incredible punch if you build it right.
I'm also looking to try some single cards that show promise while not being overpowered, like Portal Mage. Do you have any ideas?
Hmmmm, well I can share with you my list of hatebears that I like potentially in Ephara:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2805750

The main deck is my current cards and the sideboard is stuff I like that I don't play.

Also of course there are so many cards that synergize with Ephara that you can build her a bunch of ways, even basically making a budget version of her by simply swapping in the stuff like Saltskitter and Mistmeadow Witch that aren't quite good enough. You can play Capsize instead of Forbid, Gift of Estates instead of Land Tax and so on. Basically replace staples with slightly worse versions.

That said, if I were building another Ephara I would really want to go in one of three alternates:
* Lifegain (Crested Sunmare and Angelic Accord here we come!)
* Artifacts (Shimmer Myr Druidic Satchel Unwinding Clock !)
* Spirits (Spirit Bonds!!)

Because I've largely done most of the stuff with the Ephara critters I want to do. I think Artifacts has the most promise though with great cards like Hangarback Walker and Academy Ruins.

----------------------------------------------------------

Harmonious Archon is a card from the hatebear list I would absolutely jam in a more casual version of the deck. That thing is really strong against weaker decks, particularly with playing all the other good archons.

Edit: (

Just wanted to expand on this thought a little. The reason that Harmonious Archon is stronger against medium-low powered decks is because board stalls favor Ephara in almost all instances. One of my goals in general is to create board stalls so I can accumulate advantage while disrupting other people's CA engines (since they tend to be more fragile than Ephara).

Higher powered decks will have copious ways to face you into the bad place of having to assign blocks before someone removes Harmonious Archon. That's the main thing that keeps me off of it in my build, it's the type of card you have to protect during combat which is really undesirable for us.

)

The new archon from the latest set that gives you the monarchy is also great.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Thinking I am going to pick a copy of Cosmic Intervention up, as it has a really strong synergy with fetchlands and really half my deck.

I'm currently leaning toward putting Glorious Protector in for Smothering Tithe but I might cut Stunt Double instead, since it's obviously much worse.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

I didn't see Cosmic Intervention until just now, but I like it a lot. I am already running Ghostway and Eerie Interlude and both Intervention and Protector (Protector more so) do a similar job. Granted, Intervention doesn't work against things like Rift but the upsides are quite a bit greater.

I don't run Smothering Tithe in my deck so I am going to have to find something else to put in there. I am basically 99% on cutting Jeweled Lotus though. Not necessarily because of efficacy but just because of cost. I don't want to have to spend $400+ dollars on a new card and if I can't have the "best" version, I might as well not have it at all :P

But there are a few good cards for Ephara coming out in this set. I will have a bit of fun tweaking the deck to find the right places to slot these new cards in.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
I don't want to have to spend $400+ dollars on a new card and if I can't have the "best" version, I might as well not have it at all
I am really thankful that I don't care for full art cards lol. I got the set foil for my foil full art Apex Devastator and a bunch of random jank, and I'm happy with that.

Interestingly:

Cosmic Intervention does work against Rift if you have a sac outlet. Kind of a corner case but that delayed trigger is sick in that respect. :) Makes me want to find room for Phyrexian Altar. I would do terrible things for a white version of Earthcraft :P

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

That is a good point about Intervention. Either way I think both cards try to find homes in Ephara but the sac outlet piece means that it is even better in my Queen Marchesa deck. I doubt I want either one in Karador though I might try out Protector there and in Gisela. Being on a body I think is enough of an upgrade over things like Ghostway and Interlude that it might be worth trying out (though, functionally, it isn't a lot different).

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
That is a good point about Intervention. Either way I think both cards try to find homes in Ephara but the sac outlet piece means that it is even better in my Queen Marchesa deck. I doubt I want either one in Karador though I might try out Protector there and in Gisela. Being on a body I think is enough of an upgrade over things like Ghostway and Interlude that it might be worth trying out (though, functionally, it isn't a lot different).
Yeah, Cosmic will create absolutely batty in Marchesa. Kinda like Rally but without the X cost and with some flexibility around grave hate effects. I think Karador has a bigger cost per dude ratio so probably not going to be quite as good there.

Glorious Protector feels solid in Karador. Its inability to protect Gisela makes me think it's a bit of a bust there. It's still OK just that's the main reason you'd want it.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

It's a good point about Gisela. I have been toying with the idea of moving away from equipment in that deck and trying a more go-wide strategy than I already have. But, as of right now, you are right that it not being able to save Gisela likely makes it a bit worse than I would like.

In any case, the cards are fairly flexible to allow for a number of different strategies. I am leaning towards Protector for sure and Intervention just replacing Ghostway in Ephara. It does stuff a little bit differently but saving lands and other card types might be good enough to move away from "Rift" protection for creatures.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

So I had a question for folks. I am thinking with the potential to add Cosmic Intervention and also having Brought Back that I might like to add Fabled Passage. My thought on the current land base is that swapping Glacial Fortress for it makes sense. There's some small percentage of scenarios where it will cost me in the early game but I think that ability to recycle a fetch that costs no life is great.

Anyone else have other thoughts on that? Going too hard maybe?

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

Will all the other fetches you have, having one more is sort of reaching the "diminishing returns" territory. I know I am looking forward to trying out Intervention and I only have 3 fetches. Your land base is obviously better suited to taking advantage of things like Intervention and Brought Back.

With that being said, I really do not like Myriad Landscape. I have found it to just be exceptionally slow. If you are deadset against that swap, and since I am going to assume Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx has been good for you, Glacial Fortress isn't a bad cut. I don't see anything else that is a definitely better land to cut for Passage if you want to add it.

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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
Will all the other fetches you have, having one more is sort of reaching the "diminishing returns" territory. I know I am looking forward to trying out Intervention and I only have 3 fetches. Your land base is obviously better suited to taking advantage of things like Intervention and Brought Back.

With that being said, I really do not like Myriad Landscape. I have found it to just be exceptionally slow. If you are deadset against that swap, and since I am going to assume Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx has been good for you, Glacial Fortress isn't a bad cut. I don't see anything else that is a definitely better land to cut for Passage if you want to add it.
It's very possible you're right. I do have a ton of fetchables though, one of my favorite things about this deck is how many basic typed lands I can play. There're 17 fetchable targets overall.

Myriad Landscape is one of those cards I had a love-hate relationship with. I've had so many games where it was just insanely good off Mana Crypt or Ancient Tomb or fixing hands that didn't draw into enough lands, etc, but it is very very slow. I do like how good it is at cranking up to Emeria, the Sky Ruin lands too. It's worth re-thinking tbh as it's another ETB tapped land.

Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - it's mostly still in there because it's usually +1 or +2 for me and is also a colorless source. I wind up using it as a colorless source for Eldrazi Displacer with some regularity.

I think it's probably between Glacial Fort and Landscape, which I appreciate as I had not been considering landscape.

** annd I forgot one of the reasons I have Landscape is that it can be a displacer land in a pinch. Hmmmm.

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