Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

[MeowZeDung]

I think the real advantage that Verge Rangers give you isn't necessarily that they keep you making your land drops, although that is nice. The sweet thing about them is that they let you keep clearing lands off the top and increasing your chances of drawing action. I mean, they're never going to ramp you, so looking at them in comparison to green ramp decks is a false start. They are more comparable to filtering cantrips in a weird roundabout way IMO.

I don't think I will run them in Ephartifacts, but they will probably make the cut in most white creature based decks.

[pokken]

I think the real advantage that Verge Rangers give you isn't necessarily that they keep you making your land drops, although that is nice. The sweet thing about them is that they let you keep clearing lands off the top and increasing your chances of drawing action. I mean, they're never going to ramp you, so looking at them in comparison to green ramp decks is a false start. They are more comparable to filtering cantrips in a weird roundabout way IMO.

I don't think I will run them in Ephartifacts, but they will probably make the cut in most white creature based decks.

Yeah the issue is they only do that if someone is ahead on lands which, which is a bit too iffy for me. I think non-blue, non-green white decks is more likely.


Now....

On the other hand. I'm really annoyed that they're making so many nice new cards that don't have foils. Hopefully they fix that by printing some of them in commander masters too.

I expect I will either cut a mana rock or cantrip for this -- azorius signet or ponder are probably the obvious choices, but cutting signet is really hard to do. It does almost exactly what I want ponder to do which is to hit my land drops in my opening hand. tithe is also an option, though I am a bit torn on that since Ponder is harder to cast in an opening hand due to my fewer blue sources.

Anyway this card is real good.

[WizardMN]

I've always found Future Sight to be pretty bad in commander, since blue is just so broken. Courser is amazing in green because it is modeled as a superb defense, with a card advantage mechanic that the color can already abuse.
In white it is still powerful because of the lack of card advantage, but you can't use the ability if you're not against a green player or missing land drops, so it's more of a mediocre catching up mechanic.
In our deck I think the card is lackluster, but in any nonblue deck it can be great. Just run enough lands.

So it is on a 3/3 first strike body which is significantly better than courser. And it's on a body which makes it way better than future sight for us. Knowing our topdeck is pretty powerful too because we can draw it next upkeep.

I don't think it is something I will play despite all the topdeck manipulation and ways I can make sure I hit my drop, primarily because it isn't that common for me to be behind on lands.

I think you're absolutely right about the being behind thing not being *that* common - my deck hits its land drops really really well and so only green ramp decks get ahead of me and they often don't stay ahead in the mid game because I draw so many cards I'm always hitting them and they sometimes stall.

I think this is a card that works best in other decks. I might try it out in Gisela even if it is a little slow, but Ephara is not hurting for card advantage as it is. I don't think the benefits of the card really manifest themselves very well here. Arguably, the only decks I would likely run it in would be mono-white and Boros. All other colors have enough card draw or even ramp to make it less useful. With that being said....

If it had a foil I'd be way more inclined to try it out

This is a real downer for me and I am with you on this. Not with just this card but with the "free" spells too. I already know I am running the free black spell in Sygg no matter what and the free white one in Kykar, but not being foil is disappointing and likely leads me to just not playing most of the good new cards.

EDIT: Oh, and this:

Now....

cartographer's hawk

On the other hand. I'm really annoyed that they're making so many nice new cards that don't have foils. Hopefully they fix that by printing some of them in commander masters too.

Me too man, me too

I expect I will either cut a mana rock or cantrip for this -- azorius signet or ponder are probably the obvious choices, but cutting signet is really hard to do. It does almost exactly what I want ponder to do which is to hit my land drops in my opening hand. tithe is also an option, though I am a bit torn on that since Ponder is harder to cast in an opening hand due to my fewer blue sources.

Anyway this card is real good.

I agree with this one. I like that it is cheap, it actually ramps (and we can time it so we play our land for turn after it), and it also gives us a creature to recast to trigger Ephara. I am not sure what I cut for this, but I have a few ideas. Either way, I think this is a pretty easy include.

[MeowZeDung]

Yeah the issue is they only do that if someone is ahead on lands which, which is a bit too iffy for me. I think non-blue, non-green white decks is more likely.

Unless you're player 1 or you are playing green, this shouldn't be a problem I would think. You'll always be "behind" before you make your land drop for the turn. I'd rather play one off the top of my library than out of my hand and get the benefit of clearing lands for my future draw steps. Even without that, just knowing your next draw and having it be hidden information is always sweet.

That said, the hawk is definitely better for Ephara! Grats. With both of these two in tandem, monowhite now has another way to somewhat reliably get multiple lands into play per turn, but the advantages over Knight of the White Orchid or Kor Cartographer are debatable and will vary from deck to deck I reckon.

[Rumpy5897]

I expect I will either cut a mana rock or cantrip for this -- azorius signet or ponder are probably the obvious choices, but cutting signet is really hard to do.

And I'm now putting it in Daxos over Signet, thank you very much

[pokken]

Yeah the issue is they only do that if someone is ahead on lands which, which is a bit too iffy for me. I think non-blue, non-green white decks is more likely.

Unless you're player 1 or you are playing green, this shouldn't be a problem I would think. You'll always be "behind" before you make your land drop for the turn. I'd rather play one off the top of my library than out of my hand and get the benefit of clearing lands for my future draw steps. Even without that, just knowing your next draw and having it be hidden information is always sweet.

That said, the hawk is definitely better for Ephara! Grats. With both of these two in tandem, monowhite now has another way to somewhat reliably get multiple lands into play per turn, but the advantages over Knight of the White Orchid or Kor Cartographer are debatable and will vary from deck to deck I reckon.

It's true you most of the time can wait to play your land. What I find though is I'm often way ahead on lands later in the game:P It's weird, but people just do not focus on hitting their land drops. Early game, 3 cmc is an awkward spot where it conflicts with lots of key plays. I hope it turns out to be more playable than I'm starting to think. The body is real nice for wielding equipment for sure.

Yeah knight of the white orchid is the closest comparison; cartographer costs too much. knight puts one in play *untapped* and also does it ETB. I think that this card is probably slightly better than knight in Ephara specifically because of the bounce to hand rider - being able to go turn 2 hawk, turn 3 ramp, turn 4 Ephara, hawk, ramp, bounce hawk, play hawk -- that's a pretty good sequence.

Of course, that sequence is not *that* common since if you ramp on turn 3 and don't miss a land drop you'll probably be ahead.

I think where the hawk will probably shine is in the mid game as a way to steal ahead by grabbing a few lands while people are trying to set up wins.

It's also got the really cool sequence of hawk-ramp-sweeper-hawk, which I find appealing. Being able to redeploy a hawk and be ready to ramp some more and draw a card is nice.

I expect I will either cut a mana rock or cantrip for this -- azorius signet or ponder are probably the obvious choices, but cutting signet is really hard to do.

And I'm now putting it in Daxos over Signet, thank you very much

I think this might be the right play tbh, I find signets really horrendous as topdecks in this deck and I almost always go long enough for it to matter.

I also keep wanting to play kataki, it's a ridiculously cool foil Couple more cheap ramp cards and I'll be able to do it.

[Rumpy5897]

You have more of an argument for signet as your commander's a four drop. In my case, signet translates to an extra pip to sink into a one-drop enchantment synchronously with Daxos. I feel giving this up for the power to redeploy Rampant Hawk is the correct thing to do in the grand scheme of things. Plus there's the whole turn one Sol Ring into signet explosion which is nice and all, but probably not reason enough to keep it.

[MeowZeDung]

It's true you most of the time can wait to play your land. What I find though is I'm often way ahead on lands later in the game:P It's weird, but people just do not focus on hitting their land drops. Early game, 3 cmc is an awkward spot where it conflicts with lots of key plays.

Good points all!

[Hoboz]

I'll make a pitch for what to cut to test the Cartographer's Hawk. Stormscape Familiar.

I hate to say it, but the deck has been less white as of late, especially at flash speed where such effects are most powerful. The land drop might be more generally applicable now

[MeowZeDung]

Speaking of flash speed, how do y'all feel about Barracuda of the Tide? Symmetrical (sort of?) Vedalken Orrery as a budget option, or just more redundancy for folks who already own an orrery.

[WizardMN]

I think it is hard to evaluate to be honest. Being a creature is important but not having flash itself is disappointing. But, the really difficult thing to figure out is giving everyone else Flash. I think that, even if they can't do stuff on our turn (which I really like), that they can still hold up mana to do whatever they want on someone else's turn could be a legitimate issue.

I would lean away from it as I think the risk is too high for the benefits it has. Giving opponents the means to act at any time takes away some of the control we try to build up over the game. Though, for Pokken's list, I could see the appeal as it lets him combo off at instant timing or allows him to combo off on his own turn with no interaction.

So, I think it depends on what you are trying to do. In my build, since I am not really about combo, I wouldn't use it, but something with a combo that wants to be protected might. Though, to be fair, Grand Abolisher does better for protecting things on your own turn.

[pokken]

I'll make a pitch for what to cut to test the Cartographer's Hawk. Stormscape Familiar.

I hate to say it, but the deck has been less white as of late, especially at flash speed where such effects are most powerful. The land drop might be more generally applicable now

I would never cut the medallion effects I don't think; the percentage of the time you can go absolutely off with whitemane lion and stonecloaker is huge. And it also makes your combo turn if you have to cast lark and guide 2 mana faster which coincidentally is the cost of altar of dementia. Deck is still like 60% white and it ramps out Ephara as well.

I think ponder is almost surely worse in the event I can't think of a non-creature to cut.

It's a good thought, but the sequences stormscape enables (like recruiter → soulherder for 1UWW) are hard to see unless you're piloting it a lot.

Speaking of flash speed, how do y'all feel about Barracuda of the Tide? Symmetrical (sort of?) Vedalken Orrery as a budget option, or just more redundancy for folks who already own an orrery.

It's a cool card. being on a body is nice, the grand abolisher effect is really nice. If it was tutorable with recruiter it would be high on my list to try, but as is I think it'll just sit on the maybe I'll get a cheap foil list. It's pretty inefficient and hard to find.

I think in general if I really wanted that effect I would probably crowbar leyline of anticipation into the deck?

But being a creature is cool for sure.

The biggest issue it has really is the same as orrery/leyline which is that the more good flash creatures we get the less we want to pay for additional flash enablers.

The not-during-my-turn effect is very strong though and forcing people to counter war in not-my-turn is probably pretty cool.

I'm not sure exactly how to conceptualize how this thing would play. the player immediately after us is at a huge disadvantage for sure.

[MeowZeDung]

I mean, stapling a vedalken orrery with some real downside onto a grand abolisher is really good if you're any sort of combo deck. Stick your barracuda, flash out your combo pieces on opponent's end step, combo off on your turn. I'm into it.

[shermanido37]

A. I've tested Magus of the Future and it was mediocre at best. If it were not in blue it would be bonkers, like Vizier of the Menagerie, but alas.
B. Like I said, the Rangers are good if you're not the starting player or if you're against a green player, but mostly if you're not already in blue.

C. I'm deliberating on the Hawk. Sure, it'll most likely go off some time and go back to our hand, but...
1. Do we know it'll trigger when we want it to? It's still bad if we're the starting player, so it's not that reliable as ramp to an early Ephara.
2. Even if it triggers, is it that good that it comes back to our hand? I don't think we have a shortage of things to trigger Ephara on our turn, and having a 2/1 flier get stuck in my hand sure feels like I'm going to discard it sooner or later.

D. I actually love the barracuda, even if not for this deck. I love the absolutely crazy games it can generate in EDH and the very strong upside of a safe turn for us. For us, I feel like this guy is a bit too much, considering we play a high number of flash spells already, but were it not the case this would be a bomb. Consider this guy in a lifegain build for example, or a cycling one which is very possible now.

Lastly I think Ponder is a good cut. Cantrips are great in a Singleton deck, but I don't think we need too much of them.

[pokken]

I think the likelihood of the hawk being worse than knight of the white orchid is very high unfortunately. It does have a higher ceiling particularly against ramp players though.

I'll probably try it out and see, but I don't think it can replace azorius signet the more I've noodled on it. It basically does very similar things to Myriad Landscape -- enable keeps that wouldn't otherwise be okay. But it doesn't make for great starting hands like signet does.

I did pick up a Knight and a Kataki so I can potentially try a build with no 2 cmc rocks at some point (just mox/mox/mana crypt/sol ring).

[Rumpy5897]

I've gotten two test games in with Rampant Hawk. In the first game, I was going first and had no white in my opening hand. In spite of that, Rampant Hawk ramped me by two. In the second game, I went last, and sandbagged my early game plans that weren't Rampant Hawk. The thing got me four plains before I got bored with it. It's honestly pretty okay, I'd take it over Knight of the White Orchid any day of the week, but that might be the specifics of my three-drop commander.

[pokken]

I've gotten two test games in with Rampant Hawk. In the first game, I was going first and had no white in my opening hand. In spite of that, Rampant Hawk ramped me by two. In the second game, I went last, and sandbagged my early game plans that weren't Rampant Hawk. The thing got me four plains before I got bored with it. It's honestly pretty okay, I'd take it over Knight of the White Orchid any day of the week, but that might be the specifics of my three-drop commander.

I do think it will be way better in Feather where you can give it haste a lot of the time too if you draw it late game, and where you are fine to curve out feather on turn 3 or 4 with an extra land.

The sequence of
land
land hawk
land ramp on hawk, replay hawk
land, feather with 2 mana to protect her instead of 1

Is very important. I usually won't play feather without protection against savvy opponents and some of the better protection spells are 2 mana so very nice.

Quite a bit worse in Ephara, but still potentially really good., particularly nuts with sword of feast and famine where it untaps the land if you stack it right

[Rumpy5897]

Oh, I was just talking Daxos here. I hadn't even considered it for Feather, and frankly it's probably too slow for it. Plus, my Daxos observations are likely closer to the gameplay you experience with Ephara?

[pokken]

Oh, I was just talking Daxos here. I hadn't even considered it for Feather, and frankly it's probably too slow for it. Plus, my Daxos observations are likely closer to the gameplay you experience with Ephara?

Ahh, that makes sense. I imagine the repeated lifegain triggers are pretty useful there -- woops I mixed your and MZD's decks up.

Also good in WB daxos I think, though moreso when it can get more swamps for coffers. Hope they get us enemy cyclers this set. Getting scrubland and godless shrine is still very good for the deck, which is pretty mana hungry for his ability.

[MeowZeDung]

woops I mixed your and MZD's decks up.

I have a Feather deck? Is it any good?

Edit: NVM, read the whole sentence referencing lifegain triggers and realized you were referring to my Daxos, Blessed by the Sun deck. I'll go back in my hole now. :$

[shermanido37]

You know, yall keep mentioning Knight of the White Orchid, while Boreas Charger has the real potential to scale. The card is actually decent.

[pokken]

You know, yall keep mentioning Knight of the White Orchid, while Boreas Charger has the real potential to scale. The card is actually decent.

Honestly I am starting to second guess all of the 'if an opponent controls more lands than you' effects. Like...I look back and the percentage of the time that rider is impactful to me is fairly high.

People running bounce lands or just not hitting land drops is a thing; lots fewer green decks that play extra lands than I seem to recall, and I don't know why.

Aside from other people failing to play extra lands I seem to get extra lands quite a lot - things like cloning/stealing other people's stuff, etc.

I'm not sure hawk is going to be reliable enough for me to want to play it, and I distinctly remember Knight being very disappointing because it literally required someone to play exploration, burgeoning or rampant growth ahead of you for it to be able to ramp into Ephara.

I may playtest the hawk but there're reasons I don't play solemn/kor cartographer. I feel like walking atlas rates to be superior to all of these cards a very high percentage of the time, and I wound up cutting that for being inconsistent (needing too many lands).

land tax and tithe are really good because they make many opening hands keepable that aren't (and tithe in particular lets you abuse it by cracking a fetchland then casting it:P). And they have very low costs in the late game so you can just toss them off to potentially do something.

The advantage Knight has is primarily sequencing since it brings the land in untapped, but the repeated creature etbs of Hawk may be good enough.

Anyway, lots and lots of thinking to do about this stuff.

What I hope for is someday they print a collector ouphe in our colors and I can have a really good reason to push the envelope here.

[Rumpy5897]

I distinctly remember Knight being very disappointing because it literally required someone to play exploration, burgeoning or rampant growth ahead of you for it to be able to ramp into Ephara.

Pretty much why I hate the thing - it was disproportionately bad in both Daxos and Feather. It pretends to be a two drop but isn't. Hawk is better in that particular commander cost bracket as you play it on two, swing on three, get the plains, and then play land for turn and get the commander out without a tempo hit if desired.

This might be a playgroup discrepancy, but I've found the fewer lands rider to be active most of the time I play Daxos. Weathered Wayfarer is kill on sight for those reasons. That said, even getting one plains off the Hawk makes it kinda worth it already. Also, this thing made me appreciate my Sword of Rampant Growth even more than I already was. No fuss, no mess, constant ramp.

[pokken]

Pretty much why I hate the thing - it was disproportionately bad in both Daxos and Feather. It pretends to be a two drop but isn't. Hawk is better in that particular commander cost bracket as you play it on two, swing on three, get the plains, and then play land for turn and get the commander out without a tempo hit if desired.

This might be a playgroup discrepancy, but I've found the fewer lands rider to be active most of the time I play Daxos. Weathered Wayfarer is kill on sight for those reasons. That said, even getting one plains off the Hawk makes it kinda worth it already. Also, this thing made me appreciate my Sword of Rampant Growth even more than I already was. No fuss, no mess, constant ramp.

Wayfarer has that same thing where you can crack a fetch then activate it tho (like Tithe).

Hawk is kinda like a bad sword of the animist that doesn't require another creature you want to swing with, which is very nice. The repeated creature ETB is also a pretty high ceiling since it acts like a crappy one-turn whitemane lion, which can really help get you moving.

Yeh, I'll probly try it

[pokken]

So I am 100% sure there is a very powerful and fun Ephara cycling build in the new set. With all these cards you have just plenty of critical mass to make Ephara work:

• drake haven
• ominous seas
• escape protocol
• astral slide
• astral drift
• valiant rescuer
• herald of the forgotten

I think I might try this out actually as I've really wanted to try a cycling deck. Also a fun way to go nuts with containment priest if we avoid too much blink dependency ourselves...and we can blink containment priest with astral slide then blink other stuff, which is hilarious