Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim: What Is Dead May Never Die

[Daanzel]

True, Argivian Find is cheap but you'd still have to cast that one combo piece. I'm gonna swap the two to test it out, see how it works out.

Let me know your findings! Very interested how it works for you. Argivian Find is has the edge for me, mostly because its instant-speed is key when trying to find a window, when it's possible to dodge opponents counter magic and yard hate.

So far I'm liking Sevinne's Reclamation! I've only used it in two games so far, but let me elaborate on how that went:

• One time was the more obvious use, where I wanted to recur a 3CMC card. It was done on sorcery-speed so here I preferred it over Argivian Find, since in total it was now one less mana to get the recurred card on baord. Not very special, but in this case it's a slight advantage.

• Second time it actually won me the game (although it was quite mana intensive)! I had a random creature on board, enchanted with Animate Dead and a Phyrexian Altar. Also got an Entomb in hand.
  
  I was about to cast a Leonin Relic-Warder, targeting Animate Dead to start an infinite loop, getting infinite colored mana, casting Ayli, gaining infinite life and exiling all opponents non-land permanents (which usually leads to everyone scooping).
  
  One opponent played a Beast Within in response, targeting my Animate Dead, leaving the Leonin Relic-Warder with no relevant target, and killing the random creature in the process (which I sacced in response for one mana).
  
  I then played entomb, binning Sevinne's Reclamation, saccing Leonin Relic-Warder and the Beast token for more mana, and casting Sevinne's Reclamation from the yard, getting Animate Dead back in play to simply continue with my original plan. Comboing-out and winning the game.

So, I know this second case it a quite rare scenario, but the flexibility of Sevinne's Reclamation is very nice. The upside of Argivian Find (instant speed) is mostly relevant in response to grave-hate, but in my meta it's not that much of a problem for me. So I know it was just two games where it had any relevance, but for now I'n going to keep it in the deck!

[Kelzam]

I haven't been able to give the thread too much attention due to being busy with getting married in the very near future and other things, but I thought I'd chip in on Sevinne's Reclamation and Argivian Find

Daanzel has the right of it in that the reason I still run Argivian Find is because of graveyard hate. The selection of Creatures in the deck is largely toolkit based - the Orzhovian likes to plan for contingencies and have insurance on their claims! While graveyard isn't always prominent in a play group, the occasional Bojuka Bog is enough to make me weary, and in a few groups players are finally starting to take notice of Scavenging Grounds being a great Bojuka Bog-like option for non-Black colors and colors that normally lack graveyard hate.

That being said, Sevinne's Reclamation is a pretty good card, and personally I would try to run both. Sun Titan is one of the best cards in any reanimation deck that runs White, not only for it's combo potential but for it's ability to get any permanent back, and most of the most important pieces for this deck are 3 mana or less

I'm not as of yet sure what I'd take out for for Sevinne's, but I would highly recommend just running them both. I've been meaning to do an update to the list because I have several changes in the deck that I've made over the last few sets and cards that I've been testing, such as Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Vilis, Broker of Blood, and others. Tonight I fully intend to do a large write-up of my thoughts on Modern Horizons, Core Set 2020, Commander 2019 and Throne of Eldraine

[Daanzel]

How is everyone else feeling about Sheoldred, whispering one? I love the card, and it has been in my deck since the beginning as a no-brainer! However, lately I'm almost never happy to draw it..

Its high cmc and the hate it draws, it very often feels like a 7 mana Fleshbag Marauder, or even worse if the next player kills it. It also doesn't really synergize as well with the rest of my list, except for the recursion part that is. Therefore I'm replacing it with Phyrexian Reclamation for now, and see how that goes.

It might be my meta, that runs quite some spot-removal and always has some insignificant token or something to sac to Shelly..
Any thoughts?

[Jonas Ukulore]

How is everyone else feeling about Sheoldred, whispering one?

Shelly got cut from my list a while ago, too. Which is a bit sad, as I got a nice foil version of her not very long ago. She attracts swords like crazy. Lately I've been running fewer reanimation effects, and a bit more ramp and tutors.

Different thing: could anyone please explain me step-by-step the Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate Dead thing? I know it's a combo with the resurrected cat exiling the enchantment actually doing the resurrecting. I get a bit confused how to to actually win with this looping undead feline. Thanks in advance!

[yeti1069]

Animate Dead the Relic Warder.
Warder enters and exiles Animate Dead.
Warder goes to graveyard due to no longer being enchanted.
Animate Dead returns to battlefield, choosing Warder as target.
Repeat.

In order for you to win with this, you need a 3rd piece in play to take advantage of the EtB or LtB of the Warder. Blood Artist, for example.

[Daanzel]

How is everyone else feeling about Sheoldred, whispering one?

Shelly got cut from my list a while ago, too. Which is a bit sad, as I got a nice foil version of her not very long ago. She attracts swords like crazy. Lately I've been running fewer reanimation effects, and a bit more ramp and tutors.

Thx for the input! I like Gift of Estates, I'll keep that one in mind.

Animate Dead the Relic Warder.
Warder enters and exiles Animate Dead.
Warder goes to graveyard due to no longer being enchanted.
Animate Dead returns to battlefield, choosing Warder as target.
Repeat.

In order for you to win with this, you need a 3rd piece in play to take advantage of the EtB or LtB of the Warder. Blood Artist, for example.

Yup, this is how it goes. In addition, you can also use this loop for infinite sac fodder. You can sac Warder in response to the sac trigger of Animate Dead leaving the battlefield. Timing it like this keeps the loop going.

[XamIllustration]

Hi all.

I have been reading and following since the MTGSalvation forum of this primer. I have been planning on what I have and don't, plus I have been outsourcing which online/LGS shops I would buy at the cheapest rate ($1 equals R15, Yawgmoth's Will cost R4435 ). I can only at the moment do the budget version and then slowly build up to the proper version of the deck...

There are a few cards that I am hard pressed to source it (and its expensive to try outsource from US to South Africa due to shipping cost).

Would what be the best alternatives for the Angel of Serenity, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Krav, the Unredeemed, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Nim Deathmantle and Increasing Ambition?

Any other suggestions would be great. I will try go in LGS' binders (some LGS shops don't do online shopping through their binders as others would) and see if I can get them. My aunt just recently moved to San Diego, so maybe she can receive my MTG orders and then bring them down to SA(South Africa) at some point.

Oh, and silly question, What about Urborg Skeleton instead of Reassembling Skeleton? Cheaper mana cost...

[Kelzam]

Hi all.

I have been reading and following since the MTGSalvation forum of this primer. I have been planning on what I have and don't, plus I have been outsourcing which online/LGS shops I would buy at the cheapest rate ($1 equals R15, Yawgmoth's Will cost R4435 ). I can only at the moment do the budget version and then slowly build up to the proper version of the deck...

There are a few cards that I am hard pressed to source it (and its expensive to try outsource from US to South Africa due to shipping cost).

Would what be the best alternatives for the Angel of Serenity, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Krav, the Unredeemed, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Nim Deathmantle and Increasing Ambition?

Any other suggestions would be great. I will try go in LGS' binders (some LGS shops don't do online shopping through their binders as others would) and see if I can get them. My aunt just recently moved to San Diego, so maybe she can receive my MTG orders and then bring them down to SA(South Africa) at some point.

Oh, and silly question, What about Urborg Skeleton instead of Reassembling Skeleton? Cheaper mana cost...

Hey there Xam! Thanks for posting and following all this time! Sadly a lot of cards like Yawgmoth's Will have jumped significantly in recent year. When I got my copy a few years back it was only $15 USD. I think the grand total of the deck was around $350, but the costs have rocketed since then. I'll go down the list you have here and try to offer some suggestions:

Angel of Serenity - Here we have both a big beater, graveyard protection, and creature removal all in one. There isn't a good equivalent, but we can hit some notes of what it does with other creatures. Sunblast Angel can hose aggressors with a semi-board wipe; Archfiend of Depravity can serve as another semi-board wipe; Duplicant can exile tons of creatures very easily by continuously reanimating it; and ditto with Meteor Golem.

Sidisi, Undead Vizier - This is another card that is hard to replace, but there are a few options! Thalia's Lancers has the same CMC and can tutor a Legendary card. There are quite a few important cards in the deck that are Legendary where this can serve as a repeatable tutor, so I think this will be your best budget option!

Krav, the Unredeemed - I'm actually going to be updating the list to replace Krav with Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, but that doesn't help the budget limitations, huh? There's plenty of sac outlets out there attached to Creatures. Disciple of Griselbrand and Bontu the Glorified are two of my go-to budget sac outlets when building budget decks. Although bontu costs 1B to activate, she has the benefit of being Indestructible.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - There are a few options here. You could replace her with another reanimation effect like Unburial Rites. I do like Liliana, Death's Majesty quite a bit. Phyrexian Reclamation is a quite amazing card for protecting against graveyard hate. Magus of the Abyss can serve the attrition front that Sheoldred does so well.

Nim Deathmantle - There definitely isn't a good replacement for Nim Deathmantle as it's a key combo piece. What you can do is add another combo piece for Sun Titan + a sac outlet, that being Kaya's Ghostform.

Increasing Ambition - Well, I don't think there's a tutor other than Diabolic Tutor that is cheaper than this. Increasing Ambition is less than $1 USD. There's also Mausoleum Secrets if you can get enough Creatures into your graveyard. Given the budget limitations, it could be good to do a more heavy reanimation angle and run cards like Buried Alive and more reanimation effects like Living Death, Animate Dead, Victimize and so on where Mausoleum Secrets would shine.

Yawgmoth's Will - There's only one truly similar card, that being Magus of the Will. Given how slow Magus is, though, I would just run Vilis, Broker of Blood in it's stead. He's another big flying beater that can draw you a lot of cards and remove creatures at the same time.

Lastly, regarding Urborg Skeleton - It sadly doesn't hold up. The Regenerate effect doesn't work when being sacrificed, so it wouldn't stay on the field. Regeneration only works on lethal combat damage or an effect that would destroy it, and being sacrificed is neither of those.

I hope I've been able to help you a bit here

[XamIllustration]

Hi all.

I have been reading and following since the MTGSalvation forum of this primer. I have been planning on what I have and don't, plus I have been outsourcing which online/LGS shops I would buy at the cheapest rate ($1 equals R15, Yawgmoth's Will cost R4435 ). I can only at the moment do the budget version and then slowly build up to the proper version of the deck...

There are a few cards that I am hard pressed to source it (and its expensive to try outsource from US to South Africa due to shipping cost).

Would what be the best alternatives for the Angel of Serenity, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Krav, the Unredeemed, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Nim Deathmantle and Increasing Ambition?

Any other suggestions would be great. I will try go in LGS' binders (some LGS shops don't do online shopping through their binders as others would) and see if I can get them. My aunt just recently moved to San Diego, so maybe she can receive my MTG orders and then bring them down to SA(South Africa) at some point.

Oh, and silly question, What about Urborg Skeleton instead of Reassembling Skeleton? Cheaper mana cost...

Hey there Xam! Thanks for posting and following all this time! Sadly a lot of cards like Yawgmoth's Will have jumped significantly in recent year. When I got my copy a few years back it was only $15 USD. I think the grand total of the deck was around $350, but the costs have rocketed since then. I'll go down the list you have here and try to offer some suggestions:

Angel of Serenity - Here we have both a big beater, graveyard protection, and creature removal all in one. There isn't a good equivalent, but we can hit some notes of what it does with other creatures. Sunblast Angel can hose aggressors with a semi-board wipe; Archfiend of Depravity can serve as another semi-board wipe; Duplicant can exile tons of creatures very easily by continuously reanimating it; and ditto with Meteor Golem.

Sidisi, Undead Vizier - This is another card that is hard to replace, but there are a few options! Thalia's Lancers has the same CMC and can tutor a Legendary card. There are quite a few important cards in the deck that are Legendary where this can serve as a repeatable tutor, so I think this will be your best budget option!

Krav, the Unredeemed - I'm actually going to be updating the list to replace Krav with Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, but that doesn't help the budget limitations, huh? There's plenty of sac outlets out there attached to Creatures. Disciple of Griselbrand and Bontu the Glorified are two of my go-to budget sac outlets when building budget decks. Although bontu costs 1B to activate, she has the benefit of being Indestructible.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - There are a few options here. You could replace her with another reanimation effect like Unburial Rites. I do like Liliana, Death's Majesty quite a bit. Phyrexian Reclamation is a quite amazing card for protecting against graveyard hate. Magus of the Abyss can serve the attrition front that Sheoldred does so well.

Nim Deathmantle - There definitely isn't a good replacement for Nim Deathmantle as it's a key combo piece. What you can do is add another combo piece for Sun Titan + a sac outlet, that being Kaya's Ghostform.

Increasing Ambition - Well, I don't think there's a tutor other than Diabolic Tutor that is cheaper than this. Increasing Ambition is less than $1 USD. There's also Mausoleum Secrets if you can get enough Creatures into your graveyard. Given the budget limitations, it could be good to do a more heavy reanimation angle and run cards like Buried Alive and more reanimation effects like Living Death, Animate Dead, Victimize and so on where Mausoleum Secrets would shine.

Yawgmoth's Will - There's only one truly similar card, that being Magus of the Will. Given how slow Magus is, though, I would just run Vilis, Broker of Blood in it's stead. He's another big flying beater that can draw you a lot of cards and remove creatures at the same time.

Lastly, regarding Urborg Skeleton - It sadly doesn't hold up. The Regenerate effect doesn't work when being sacrificed, so it wouldn't stay on the field. Regeneration only works on lethal combat damage or an effect that would destroy it, and being sacrificed is neither of those.

I hope I've been able to help you a bit here

Thanks so much for coming back to me on the alternative suggestions.

I managed to buy most of the budget stuff including some of the cards in the main decklist too. I am going to pick up the cards with a road trip to some of the shops scattered in Gauteng, a province (like a state for the US). Luckily my friends from the playgroup was willing to trade my old cards from the Lord Windgace EDh deck I modded, for some of the cards I was looking for. Especially the Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive.

I will be playing the deck hopefully by next week Saturday. Can't wait.

[Kelzam]

After a lot of thought and reflection, I'm ready to announce that Ayli is going to be receiving a major overhaul.

While I have fun with this deck and have updated it for years, the truth is that the nature of Commander has changed in the many years since I put this together. The environment is becoming more and more focused on optimization. Some cards have become better because of this, but many have become worse. I was once comfortable playing a slower game with this deck, but as time has crept on, so to has the pace at which game staets are built. With the advent of so much content for Commanders, the community is building better, playing stronger decks and are more wise to the political game than ever before. I seldom have the luxury of sitting on a slow game anymore. While an attrition style deck is certainly still possible, the speed of the deck's configuration has made some minor issues turn into larger ones.

With that said, this is partly in reason why this half year I haven't been playing Ayli much. I've built and deconstructed many Commander decks in the last half year due to the amount of new product coming out. Every other month it feels like there's something new that catches my eye. I only get to play around 8-10 games of Commander a month, if I'm lucky. With having so many projects, it's been hard to revisit Ayli. With Theros Beyond Death, so far I'm not looking to build any new Commanders and see a lot of stuff that I like for the 99. I intend to use this window before Ikoria and any other as-of-yet announced supplemental products to have a hard look at Ayli.

I truly do miss playing Orzhov, but even when I do play it, it's my Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck, which has felt more fun for quite sometime now because it was built from the ground up with the current landscape of Commander in mind. Anyway, this is why I've been rather absent as of late and not been updating the Primer for a bit, now. I'm looking forward to seeing where I arrive after a re-evaluation of Ayli from the ground up. Until then, enjoy the Primer here as it is. This deck has been a labor of love for many years.

[Jonas Ukulore]

A hard look is very likely what this deck might need. This is a grindy sac-for-fun-and-profits deck, and Ayli herself often felt like just a sac outlet in the command zone. If I'm honest, with every set or supplemental product that comes out, I'm always hoping for a commander that does just a little bit more.

(It also might be that my playgroup just knows Ayli too well, and can anticipate every move, tutor, combo piece and shenanigans she could possibly throw at them.)

I'm very glad you built and found a new angle to in Elenda! It's an inspiration and a goal for a renewed (un)life in this New Year.
What Is Dead May Never Die!

[benjameenbear]

I think your observation is very accurate. CMC's are dropping across the board for Commander decks I see and optimization of decklists is the predominant thought when people are posting content it seems. It seems like everything is going to go to an optimized High-Powered list in some form or fashion, which I think is a good thing personally since it helps to bridge the gap between the cEDH crowd and the regular EDH crowd. The cEDH crowd is already obsessed with optimization and to see the regular EDH crowd shift towards optimization mindsets should hopefully bring some unity to this subset of MTG fans. Rant aside...

Sadly, there wasn't any other Titan printed. I was really hoping for a cycle of the Titans, with perhaps one in Orzhov, but alas. The new art for Gary is pretty good though.

Otherwise, it's not the best set for Commander, sadly.

[Kelzam]

I think your observation is very accurate. CMC's are dropping across the board for Commander decks I see and optimization of decklists is the predominant thought when people are posting content it seems. It seems like everything is going to go to an optimized High-Powered list in some form or fashion, which I think is a good thing personally since it helps to bridge the gap between the cEDH crowd and the regular EDH crowd. The cEDH crowd is already obsessed with optimization and to see the regular EDH crowd shift towards optimization mindsets should hopefully bring some unity to this subset of MTG fans. Rant aside...

Sadly, there wasn't any other Titan printed. I was really hoping for a cycle of the Titans, with perhaps one in Orzhov, but alas. The new art for Gary is pretty good though.

Otherwise, it's not the best set for Commander, sadly.

Frankly, I'm of the opposite mind when it comes to bridging your average Commander player and cEDH players together and the rising power level within the format. I entirely disagree with the olive branch Sheldon has been extending because of the toxicity the presence of competitive-minded players brings to the community at large, where discussion falls under the heel of "good and bad" cards.

One of the reasons I started playing Commander was that I felt I could play a lot of cards that I couldn't in other formats and I enjoyed long swingy games. As the average power level rises, players will not want to feel like they can't contribute to games or like they're being left behind - at a threshold, they become obligated. To be obligated to make better decks, get better cards, etc. is the antithesis of what made Commander such an amazing format all this time. I've already seen this since I started playing Commander in 2011 with the original set of precons. There weren't yet content creators and cEDH players invading conversations between casual players sowing the idea that you should run X ramp, Y draw, Z removal. For quite a few years, we didn't have the issue of homogenization we have now where data aggregators like EDHREC and an endless amount of content creators pushing optimization are resulting in more and more decks playing the same cards. Since then, decks have become less and less and less personalized and more and more about running the best choices.

cEDH is the far end of that spectrum, where the message of what the format is about - that being the journey, socializing and expression of yourself through your deck - is lost and overshadowed by the need to race to win as soon as possible within a set meta game with tier lists and extremely marginalized creativity. If I wanted to play Legacy or Vintage, I'd play those. Regardless of what people will say of the comparison, it's a valid onegiven the end goal of cEDH is to be as competitive as possible, that lends you to playing homogenized decks with the best of the best and linear, predictable games. You can't be competitive without eschewing the vast majority of what has made EDH great all these years, and I for one grow exhausted with their presence. Sure the growth of the format to become as big as it is has had a large hand in these problems, because in this day and age of information a way of playing a game will ultimately have a "best" deck, archetype or card and everyone will read or hear as much. The difference is always choosing to play the best. It's the difference between always the most important thought being "If I make this play, will I win?" who this format was not for, versus the sometimes thought of "I could win right now but we're having fun, so I'll hold off", who grew this format into what it is.

As for Theros...

I was also disappointed there wasn't an Orzhov Titan. I *am* very happy with Erebos, Bleak-Hearted, though! I've always preferred passive card draw to mana activated abilities, and Black seldom gets the option to choose whether to perform actions or not (ie. Dark Prophecy). Phyrexian Arena is an example of a card that used to be good but is just too slow, now. There's a good chance that I'll try the new Erebos in whatever form Ayli takes next. Erebos and Woe Strider are probably the only cards in the set I'm considering for Ayli.

[XamIllustration]

Yeah, there wasn't much for Ayli's deck from the Theros set.

I totally understand you had to put this primer on a back burner till you have time to advise what else you have updated. Yeah, the cEDH and Casual starting to blur a bit, but I prefer to play with my playgroup for fun and interactivity. There are cEDH players that just miss the point of the game and just be quiet and only chat for what's he/she doing in response or just be meh. I will still come back to check out any news and go through the comment section for ideas. I prefer to use your primer as a guiding point to approve the deck or see what I did wrong on some cards, synergies/combos. I am always up for improving myself as a commander player.

I have found a cool synergy/combo with Haunted Crossroads and Bolas's Citadel that could be a nice addition to this deck. That's only if you do a lot of life gain on the side and sacrificing cards for life. I will test it out at some point soon.

I have the two cards on the side after I finally get most of the utility cards in my deck. It's doing well so far with the mixture of the original decklist and budget options that I had to add for cards I couldn't get.

I also added Debtors' Knell as for fun. and it worked because my opponent, my brother (1v1) didn't have a destroy enchantment spell and he board-wiped with Obliterate, Debtor's Knell helped to get my board state back to normal in some way. He was salty about the Fiend Hunter trick and I don't think he wants to acknowledge it. I think the saltiness was the fact he forgot to add enchantment effects to his combat damage that could have killed my creatures or me for that matter.

Otherwise, my Ayli deck is doing good, I come either second or first in some games, due to the right draw for the game, right cards in the graveyard and luck.

[Jonas Ukulore]

A long hard look it is, then. I present to you my personal findings. As always, very interested in your perspectives.

39 Lands
This bunch of lands (I know it looks like a lot) is the sweetspot for me between screw and flood. It's actually 38+ Maze of Ith; including 8 fetch (7 normal+Fabled passage), a smattering of duals of your choice, At least 10+ basics (oh, the hate), as little as possible ETBT lands, and some utility lands like Bojuka Bog, Phyrexian Tower or Volrath's Stronghold.

Mana - Trying not to fall too far behind behind the G players 11 cards
This looks like an obsession, I know, but time and again I find myself at the very opening stage of a game with 2 lands and the rest of the table with 4 or 5.

When you're behind (almost always): 5 cards
Weathered Wayfarer, Land Tax, Gift of Estates, Boreas Charger and Tithe
Other Ramp: 6 cards
Sol Ring, Orzhov Signet, Talisman of Hierarchy, Arcane Signet, Solemn Simulacrum, Smothering Tithe

Carddraw - Trying not to fall too far behind behind the U players 8 cards
Necropotence, Skullclamp, Phyrexian Arena(on the chopping block, it's sooo slow), Read The Bones, Skeletal Scrying, Tymna the Weaver, Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Scroll Rack(hopefully with Land Tax on board). We can tutor all we want, but sometimes, card quantity matters as well.

Tutors (finally, something we're better at than most) 7 cards
Enlightened, Vampiric, Demonic, Imperial, Straight To The Yard, Recruiter, ETB Tutor Guy

The rest: Removal, Sweepers, Sac Outlets, Recursion, and WinCons are to your own tastes. But, (imho) making sure you land your landdrops, keeping a quasi full grip, avoiding topdeck-mode, and being able to find whatever you need are the most important things in this deck.

[XamIllustration]

Hey, has anyone made some new changes to the deck with the new sets coming out?

[Jonas Ukulore]

From time to time, I 'convert' my Ayli deck to a different commander, to see whether I like it better, or, if not, what can be learned from that experience. She's been Teysa Karlov a year or so ago, and now, she's Liesa, Shroud of Dusk. For now, I'm enjoying the life gain/drain/stax/hatebear experiment that is Liesa.