Queen Marchesa - Aristocrats

ADDS

1 False Prophet

Approximate Total Cost:

06/05/20

CUTS

ADDS

1 Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose

Approximate Total Cost:

06/06/20

CUTS

1 Skullclamp

1 Call the Coppercoats

1 Secure the Wastes

ADDS

1 Reliquary Monk

1 Unexpectedly Absent

1 Nahiri, the Harbinger

Approximate Total Cost:

06/07/20

CUTS

1 No Mercy

1 Second Sunrise

ADDS

1 Damnation

1 Toxic Deluge

Approximate Total Cost:

06/30/20

CUTS

1 Second Sunrise

1 Reliquary Monk

1 Faith's Reward

1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

1 Lightmine Field

1 Boreas Charger

ADDS

1 Liliana's Standard Bearer

1 Ruinous Ultimatum

1 Idol of Endurance

1 Witch of the Moors

1 Duergar Hedge-Mage

Approximate Total Cost:

Somehow my deck got out of sync and I can't figure out what happened. Deluge was never added properly so it is just being cut here without a corresponding addition

07/02/20

CUTS

1 Toxic Deluge

ADDS

nothing

Approximate Total Cost:

11/12/20

CUTS

1 Witch of the Moors

1 Syr Konrad, the Grim

1 Cleansing Nova

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Pyroblast

ADDS

1 Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools

1 Keeper of the Accord

1 Court of Grace

1 Drana, the Last Bloodchief

1 Szat's Will

Approximate Total Cost:

12/02/20

CUTS

1 Miren, the Moaning Well

1 High Market

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Diamond Valley

1 Plains

ADDS

1 Needleverge Pathway

1 Brightclimb Pathway

1 Luxury Suite

1 Spectator Seating

1 Vault of Champions

Approximate Total Cost:

01/24/2021

CUTS

1 Falkenrath Noble

1 Vindictive Vampire

1 Bastion of Remembrance

1 Thrilling Encore

1 Idol of Endurance

1 Swamp

1 Drana, the Last Bloodchief

1 Erebos, Bleak-Hearted

ADDS

1 Cosmic Intervention

1 Glorious Protector

1 Eradicator Valkyrie

1 Rise of the Dread Marn

1 Tergrid, God of Fright

1 Immersturm Predator

1 Kardur, Doomscourge

1 Blightstep Pathway

Approximate Total Cost:

4/12/2021

CUTS

1 Battlefield Forge

1 Caves of Koilos

1 Damnation

1 Kardur, Doomscourge

1 Merciless Eviction

1 Rise of the Dread Marn

1 Szat's Will

ADDS

1 Archaeomancer's Map

1 Devastating Mastery

1 Scholarship Sponsor

1 Plumb the Forbidden

1 Inkshield

2 Plains

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

So I too really like Queen Marchesa - no surprise given how much our tastes in commanders overlap. I can say this deck feels extremely disjointed to me. Part of it is the tension with Queen Marchesa's ability that doesn't really want you to sweep her and would rather keep cranking out assassin tokens whenever you lose monarch and potentially get blinked or reanimated to reset it.

It also feels like it has a huge overlap with Sygg and Karador (and even a bit of overlap with Ephara), I see tons of cards and concepts in common with both of those decks, which is a natural I guess.

I never wind up enjoying goodstuff sweeper decks, fwiw, so that might be why I am not feeling any kinship with this deck.

An issue is I think all the actual fun synergistic ways to build Marchesa overlap strongly with another deck you have (removal.dec, swords.dec, blink.dec, tokens, etc.).

I guess I don't see this adding much to your experience as is, but of course wish you the best of luck with it.

-------------------------------------

edit: I did remember one theme with Queen Marchesa that I enjoyed the idea of but never got together with. That theme was "Attack punishment" -- cards like Royal Assassin and Lightmine Field and No Mercy - just jamming all the stuff I liked that punished people for attacking or made it really undesirable. Kind of like an angry pillow fort deck. Any excuse to get all the copies of Maze of Ith I can think of in a deck.

Also Comeuppance Selfless Squire Deflecting Palm and so on.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

After writing the above, I decided to really look at what an Aristrocrats build would look like. I liked the idea and wanted to see what the difference between the two might be.

In this build, I went lower on the sweepers and still kept a fair amount of targeted removal. I added in the normal aristocrat components: sac outlets and things that care about creatures dying.

I also cut out the Monarch subtheme and moved most of the card draw effects to creatures. There are only a couple "mass reanimation" effects. I cut Wake the Dead but it might still make sense for that to be put back. I just didn't like the restriction.

The mana base is more fleshed out with this build and is more or less finalized. I cut things like Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Throne of the High City. I also found that cutting down on basics in favor for more fixing is preferable so Terrain Generator may no be as good. I left it in so I can get to the point of testing it but 10 basics is very low for Terrain Generator to really do a lot.

Because of the fetches, shocks, and duals, I might scale back some other nonbasics to make Terrain Generator work a little better. I will have to see how things play out. Since I can't really guarantee I get to Terrain Generator I don't want to force too much around it.

Here is this build. I am still waffling between the two ideas but I am starting to think I like the playstyle of this one a bit more.

Queen Marchesa

General (1)

1 Queen Marchesa

Lands (40)

1 Arid Mesa

1 Badlands

1 Battlefield Forge

1 Blood Crypt

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin

1 Godless Shrine

1 Isolated Chapel

1 Isolated Watchtower

1 Marsh Flats

1 Mistveil Plains

2 Mountain

5 Plains

1 Plateau

1 Scrubland

5 Swamp

1 Throne of the High City

1 Tainted Field

1 Tainted Peak

Creatures (29)

1 Corpse Augur

1 Cruel Celebrant

1 Erebos, Bleak-Hearted

1 Falkenrath Aristocrat

1 Falkenrath Noble

1 Grim Haruspex

1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper

1 Judith, the Scourge Diva

1 Karmic Guide

1 Luminous Broodmoth

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

1 Priest of Forgotten Gods

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Sun Titan

1 Syr Konrad, the Grim

1 Teysa Karlov

1 Vindictive Vampire

1 Viscera Seer

1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan

1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician

1 Zulaport Cutthroat

Instants (17)

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Call the Coppercoats

1 Chaos Warp

1 Deadly Rollick

1 Dire Tactics

1 Mortify

1 Path to Exile

1 Pyroblast

1 Rally the Ancestors

1 Red Elemental Blast

1 Secure the Wastes

1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Teferi's Protection

1 Thrilling Encore

1 Tithe

1 Unexpectedly Absent

1 Utter End

Enchantments (6)

1 Arguel's Blood Fast

1 Bastion of Remembrance

1 Dictate of Erebos

1 Goblin Bombardment

1 Grave Pact

1 Phyrexian Reclamation

Sorceries (5)

Artifacts (2)

1 Skullclamp

1 Sword of the Animist

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

I was typing up a new list (above) which might lead into some of your points. But, I wanted to respond to these as well:

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
So I too really like Queen Marchesa - no surprise given how much our tastes in commanders overlap. I can say this deck feels extremely disjointed to me. Part of it is the tension with Queen Marchesa's ability that doesn't really want you to sweep her and would rather keep cranking out assassin tokens whenever you lose monarch and potentially get blinked or reanimated to reset it.

Which might be fair. My thought was basically "become Monarch and then never let anything survive long enough to attack me". Now, that is a pretty lofty goal as it is, but I might be able to do most of that. The loss of the Assassin tokens isn't as relevant when I have other creatures to block for me after the sweeper.

It also feels like it has a huge overlap with Sygg and Karador (and even a bit of overlap with Ephara), I see tons of cards and concepts in common with both of those decks, which is a natural I guess.

I tried to focus mostly on the sweepers here to distance it from Sygg but the comparison to Karador might be apt. I think they play different enough and there are only 6 creatures (if I counted right) that overlap so I don't think that is much of a concern. But, it is another grindy deck in a line of grindy decks but one that might play out far more linearly than I might like.

I never wind up enjoying goodstuff sweeper decks, fwiw, so that might be why I am not feeling any kinship with this deck.

An issue is I think all the actual fun synergistic ways to build Marchesa overlap strongly with another deck you have (removal.dec, swords.dec, blink.dec, tokens, etc.).

I guess I don't see this adding much to your experience as is, but of course wish you the best of luck with it.

Goodstuff decks aren't really my forte either. I had hoped that "get a bunch of mana to fire off an X spell" would at least give it a purpose. Perhaps not enough though.

And yeah, there is still the risk of too much overlap with other decks. The Aristocrat build I posted above might solve that issue too?

-------------------------------------

edit: I did remember one theme with Queen Marchesa that I enjoyed the idea of but never got together with. That theme was "Attack punishment" -- cards like Royal Assassin and Lightmine Field and No Mercy - just jamming all the stuff I liked that punished people for attacking or made it really undesirable. Kind of like an angry pillow fort deck. Any excuse to get all the copies of Maze of Ith I can think of in a deck.

Also Comeuppance Selfless Squire Deflecting Palm and so on.

Hmmm....that doesn't seem like a bad idea either. I had originally liked the Assassin Tribal concept mostly because I would get to play Royal Assassin. Maybe I could go further into the Attack Punishment idea you mentioned. It is a good thought.

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

I like the aristocrats build a lot better for sure. You might like Brought Back and Phyrexian Altar. I liked both those a lot in Aminatou, wound up using brought back more for ramp than anything.

Generally speaking I think the 'play marchesa as a personal howling mine and then ramp slowly to a big x spell while spamming sweepers' has to be a dud concept. I get it, but it's just way less interesting than every other deck I've seen you make

For me, playing Royal Assassin is the #1 draw of this deck and I'd look for any excuse to do that lol.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

I don't tend to like Ashnod's and Phyrexian Altar but maybe that is a mistake. My prejudice against them is geared more towards their uses for infinites but adding in Phyrexian at the very least makes sense.

I wonder if Second Sunrise might be good for the turns I "go off"? Or is the "all players" aspect probably too much? Brought Back seems to be a good middle ground for sure and does allow for a bit of ramping if needed.

That is fair about it being a dud concept. It is partly why I was so quick to revert back to a potential Aristocrats build. Even theorycrafting it felt bland and uninteresting. As I mentioned, Aristocrats allows for real decisions to be made with real consequences for sloppy play as well as for tight play. Spam sweepers doesn't really have that as it is likely far more forgiving without providing any sense of accomplishment in a game well played. Even thinking of it now, I like summarizing games to give cool interactions and smart plays and the original concept likely goes no further than "I was getting behind, I cast a sweeper, I cast Exsanguinate; good game".

I wonder if blending the two concepts works? Because of things like Royal Assassin, Comeuppance, and No Mercy, coupled with Grave Pact effects, spot removal might be less necessary which frees up some slots. I would still want a couple wraths as failsafes.

This is my first thought for that. Not sure if it isn't quite focused enough but I don't think the attack punishments idea can work without some support and the Aristocrats theme seems like it still works here. I also didn't go super heavy on the idea of attack punishments but I did make room for Royal Assassin because why not

.

Queen Marchesa

General (1)

1 Queen Marchesa

Lands (39)

1 Arid Mesa

1 Badlands

1 Blood Crypt

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin

1 Godless Shrine

1 High Market

1 Isolated Chapel

1 Marsh Flats

1 Maze of Ith

1 Miren, the Moaning Well

1 Mistveil Plains

2 Mountain

1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Plains

1 Plateau

1 Scrubland

3 Swamp

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures (31)

1 Corpse Augur

1 Cruel Celebrant

1 Erebos, Bleak-Hearted

1 Falkenrath Aristocrat

1 Falkenrath Noble

1 Grim Haruspex

1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper

1 Judith, the Scourge Diva

1 Karmic Guide

1 Luminous Broodmoth

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

1 Priest of Forgotten Gods

1 Royal Assassin

1 Selfless Squire

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Sun Titan

1 Syr Konrad, the Grim

1 Teysa Karlov

1 Vindictive Vampire

1 Viscera Seer

1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan

1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician

1 Zulaport Cutthroat

Enchantments (8)

1 Arguel's Blood Fast

1 Bastion of Remembrance

1 Dictate of Erebos

1 Goblin Bombardment

1 Grave Pact

1 Lightmine Field

1 No Mercy

1 Phyrexian Reclamation

Instants (15)

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Brought Back

1 Call the Coppercoats

1 Chaos Warp

1 Comeuppance

1 Path to Exile

1 Pyroblast

1 Rally the Ancestors

1 Red Elemental Blast

1 Secure the Wastes

1 Settle the Wreckage

1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Teferi's Protection

1 Thrilling Encore

1 Tithe

Sorceries (4)

Artifacts (2)

1 Phyrexian Altar

1 Skullclamp

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

I do loooove Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward effects (and Thrilling Encore which you have of course).

I think Phyrexian Altar is really, really good with those effects too since it can allow you to cast them out of nowhere in "response" to sweepers, while also protecting from exile sweepers.

Attack punishers + aristocrats are a great combination of themes, IMHO. Cards like Lightmine Field specifically can also act as functional sac outlets which is kinda nice.

I like the direction you're going in general. Aristocrats + Goblin Bombardment + the attack hate effects create some places where it's really horrendous to figure out if you can even attack, which is great for this deck.

As always when blending themes it's hard to get the balance right, but I think you're on a fun track.

One note: this might be a deck where Reveillark is better than Karmic Guide - tons of your creatures are larkable, and being able to put a lark out and sac it later to bring back Selfless Squire say, would be really good. And running them both with an outlet would be infinite of course so maybe not desirable for you.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
I do loooove Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward effects (and Thrilling Encore which you have of course).

I might try to find room for those two as well then. I might just have to go with Second Sunrise over Brought Back as I only have so much room as it is and then find someplace for Faith's Reward.

I like the direction you're going in general. Aristocrats + Goblin Bombardment + the attack hate effects create some places where it's really horrendous to figure out if you can even attack, which is great for this deck.

As always when blending themes it's hard to get the balance right, but I think you're on a fun track.

That is always tricky to balance things but I agree that the initial list so far seems to handle them pretty well. I might need to go a little lower on creatures but I don't want to go too low.

And yeah, making people do math can help stall some attacks as people just don't want to figure it out

I think having the multiple threats ends up working out reasonably well. Depending on how important No Mercy and the Grave Pact effects end up being, I might try to slot in Academy Rector as well.

One note: this might be a deck where Reveillark is better than Karmic Guide - tons of your creatures are larkable, and being able to put a lark out and sac it later to bring back Selfless Squire say, would be really good. And running them both with an outlet would be infinite of course so maybe not desirable for you.

That is a good call. Both on the effectiveness of Lark and the infinite it would create. I am willing to try it to see if that becomes a problem but I do agree that Lark is likely the better of the two anyway. I do also have Phyrexian Delver which isn't infinite but still gives me the effect so it isn't like I totally lose out if I find I want to cut Guide.

These additions do leave me at 103 cards total so I will need to figure out the best things to cut. I have a feeling Royal Assassin might go for being too "cute" and not doing as much as other options.

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

I'd never cut the assassin, but I love that guy. my first control deck ever was mono black assassin-manipulator control in type 1

Just cut one of the blasts, you're pretty resilient to countermagic already with all the GY recursion. I usually just play pyroblast.

My list of cuts would be:

Butcher just feels overcosted for this deck as good as he is as a bomb. The blood fast just...I dunno, feels unnecessary to me

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

My very first rare ever was Royal Assassin and I got that my a bulk lot on eBay and I think even then the only reason I got it was because it is a Revised edition that someone sharpied the borders to be black. Even with upgrading everything to Foil, I still have him. Mono Black with Dark Rituals and Hypnotic Specters and Sengir Vampires was my first real deck

That could be true. I like the idea of playing a "gotcha" for blue players but maybe playing both is just overkill.

I had looked at Butcher solely based on the mana cost and that could be a good point. I almost cut it during an earlier round of cuts for the 7 mana but I wanted the effect. It might not be necessary though.

And Blood Fast seemed reasonable but again, with the other card draw, I could see it being unnecessary.

I am getting really close to pulling the trigger on MTGO as well. I have 4 decks in my cart (and might add Sygg as well). The main issue is that some cards aren't in stock or are exceptionally expensive on Cardhoarder. I am not paying $30 online for Fierce Guardianship for example. Even without those, my cart is at $425 so I am not sure if I want to go one deck at a time (this deck was around $150 I think).

I Just want to try these decks out and after seeing how much you have been able to get good games in with Ephara which allows for quicker turnarounds for testing different includes, I think it is worth it.

How has your experience been online? Is there a lot of infinite combos? I know you play those in Ephara but is it fairly split? Or do people tend to bring cEDH builds (or close to it) to the "casual" rooms?

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

So I have been playing a lot less since the weather turned here - it's so nice I am just outside all the time doing family stuff. I've played probably 40-50 games with Ephara is my guess though, usually 1 game a day on average before it got warm.

It never takes long to find a game, but I would guess that around 30% of games are mostly non-games where I win because my deck is good and I pay attention and there's not much chance for the opposition.

An example of things I notice is:
* Most people do not remember your Mystical Tutor reveals online. If you watch other people's tutor reveals it is a big advantage.
* Most people have a memory of about one turn cycle and think about one turn ahead, so if you're playing 2 or 3 turns ahead you're strongly advantaged.
* Most people do not play that much interaction or if they do are extremely prone to tap out because it's more convenient from a UI perspective than having to pass priority all the time.
* Politics is entirely hit or miss, though I prefer not to play much beyond pointing out potential game winning lines anyway.

My overall rate of non-games is probably not much higher than it is offline, but I guess online people are somewhat faster scoopers than usual so when I do hit a non-game it's usually over pretty fast. I do have to explain infinite combos a good portion of the time but a lot of people also no what's up and are good sports (as I try to be).

Generally speaking I think MTGO is *exceptional* for testing whether your deck works. The nuances in person where people know you and know your deck are going to be different, but I can tell whether my deck works by just jamming a dozen games over two days and ~4-6 hours.

What it's not great at is determining how your deck handles interaction since people pay attention a bit less and tap out a bit more than in paper.

When playing with my friend group on MTGO my experiences almost exactly mirror paper magic except that 1) people don't miss triggers, 2) people don't inadvertently cheat (particularly with tapping of mana which is the thing I see people do wrong the most in paper). We all get on Discord and talk, so it's basically like playing paper.

---------------------------
To answer these questions specifically:

Is there a lot of infinite combos? I know you play those in Ephara but is it fairly split?

Definitely not the norm and when there are they're not usually the CEDH combos. I saw someone with with thassa's Oracle by literally a combination of self mill and draw once but that's the only oracle win I've seen that was not in a CEDH room.

People are very good at respecting "NO CEDH" in the room comments. People are much worse at reading "CEDH ONLY" in the room comments, so my CEDH games are usually garbage if it's not all my friends.

I would say on average 1 or 2 at the table have an infinite combo in their decks. Wins tend to be via overwhelming advantage that is not strictly infinite; things like end step Secure the Wastes untap kill the board with Winota, Joiner of Forces triggers, or Genesis Wave into Craterhoof Behemoth + Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded or something like that.

I see very, very few stack based wins out side of craterhoof who is relatively common. Even hoof you can interact with kinda with removal/instant speed semi-sweepers/etc.

Or do people tend to bring cEDH builds (or close to it) to the "casual" rooms?

I have seen a reasonable number of pubstomper decks but no cedh decks in the non-cedh rooms. I classify pubstomper decks as in between my Ephara build and CEDH - stuff where people are playing 30 lands and all the rocks and tutors and trying to go off but usually aren't quite as interactive as CEDH decks or play slower interaction.

My guess is I see a pubstomper every 3 or 4 games at best, and almost invariably they are early scoopers who will leave if you remove their macguffin a couple times. I literally saw that the other day with Pako, Arcane Retriever pubstomping deck that showed up - guy scooped when pako died a couple times.

I think it's possible people would classify my Ephara power level as pubstomping too with some of the decks I run into, but *most* of the time people are doing powerful stuff and I'm able to stop it before going off vs. actively out-racing people.

--------------------------------------------------------------

speaking of Fierce Guardianship it's down to 25 at goatbots of course right after I bought one for 32 tix. I decided to 'profit take' a little and cashed in my Carpet of Flowers Misdirection and Lotus Petal for 60 tix to buy the new stuff I wanted (including a Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft finally.

I doubt it will go much under 20 though since *every* Edh player wants one.

I would definitely not go in for more than one deck at a time. It's really an acquired taste and if you hate it you want to be able to just dump it without losing too much. I played 10 or 20 games with Ephara before I bought anything else.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
I would definitely not go in for more than one deck at a time. It's really an acquired taste and if you hate it you want to be able to just dump it without losing too much. I played 10 or 20 games with Ephara before I bought anything else.

Fair enough. I suppose it doesn't make a lot of sense to go all in anyway. I might do two decks though: Marchesa and Karador. That way if Marchesa is a bust, I at least have a "tried and true" deck to fall back on to determine if my distaste is the deck or the client

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote: ↑
3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
I would definitely not go in for more than one deck at a time. It's really an acquired taste and if you hate it you want to be able to just dump it without losing too much. I played 10 or 20 games with Ephara before I bought anything else.
Fair enough. I suppose it doesn't make a lot of sense to go all in anyway. I might do two decks though: Marchesa and Karador. That way if Marchesa is a bust, I at least have a "tried and true" deck to fall back on to determine if my distaste is the deck or the client

Client tips:
1) if you are dual monitor you can keep the list of hotkeys up on one side by going into your profile and clicking the shortcuts button - i did that for some time.

2) someone we played with taught me that if you have nothing to do but want to keep mana up to be scary you can yield until your next upkeep, which is useful (it's on the bar above your cards right click the upkeep tick then say "Yield (until my next turn)" or whatever it is supposedly they are working on a multiplayer feature to allow yielding until particular spots, e.g. the last person before you's end step.

3) if you tap out and 'no possible play yield all' that can be useful in the first few turns when everyone's just doing setup stuff.

4) on the right side of the screen there's a button that will let you see all your yields. Looks like an exclamation point in a triangle IIRC. Managing yields and auto-yes's is the key to a good experience. Things like Rhystic Study you can always yield to then always yes (if it's your study), and it saves a ton of time.

You need to always-yes BEFORE you yield to all triggers though or it will never give you the chance to always-yes.

Similarly when performing loops you can do 'same targets' and that sometimes helps, though it does not work for everything.

IF there is only one possible target for something it autotargets (e.g. snapcaster and only one spell in bin) so be mindful of that and don't freak out.

5) Use the game log to see what you screwed up

6) With signets or anything like signets, always use them first when paying costs for things, otherwise it will eat the mana you want to put into activating the signet. You can always right click / undo to undo your mana tapping but sometimes if your spell costs 1 or 2 you can mess it up this way. *always use signet effects first* if you're going to use them.

7) Be super careful when you are clicking things. I accidentally discarded a card at my end step the other day when I was over handsize, because I thought I had priority and was going to cast it on the next person's upkeep - didn't notice I was over hand size. The box on the lower left tells you what the it's asking you to do (e.g. click to select targets, click to discard, etc.).

And finally be prepared to screw up and try not to stress about it. It will literally ruin games when you misclick and it's super frustrating. I rarely do anymore but it takes a while.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

Well, I bit the bullet and bought this (and Karador) online. I played a little solitaire to get used to the interface again (I haven't played it since about a year before Arena was announced) and once I got my bearings again, with some good suggestions from pokken, I joined a game.

I will post a video below if anyone wants to watch it, but I will summarize it too

The game consisted of me, Vial Smasher the Fierce & Thrasios, Triton Hero, Ghave, Guru of Spores, and Winota, Joiner of Forces. Winota started out and I went second, followed by the Partners and then Ghave. Winota started with a Skullclamp and I just played a land. I mulliganed once and had 4 lands in hand with one of them being Diamond Valley. I kept it even though I really needed another white source, but it seemed like as decent enough hand anyway.

I didn't really do anything until turn 3 when, after drawing my second white source, I cast Hallowed Spiritkeeper. I didn't know what I was going to do with it, but I didn't see the need to slow roll it.

In the mean time, the other players were establishing their board states but nothing too scary. Winota came down turn 4 but they had no non-humans at the time as the only thins they cast was a Paladin en-Vec.

I just kept committing more to the board though I felt that casting Queen Marchesa wasn't the right play at the time. I might have been overly cautious as no one had more than 2 creatures yet and Winota wouldn't get a free one either. But, I just cast a Falkenrath Noble and passed.

The next turn I cast a Luminous Broodmoth and played Diamond Valley and passed. The partners had Vial Smasher with Curiosity attached to it so Ghave blew it up (the only removal spell cast in the game I think; I never got to any of mine unfortunately).

Ghave kept slamming Saprolings and ended up getting a face down Deep Forest Hermit which gave them a few saprolings when it turned face up. So, they and Winota were getting to be the threats. I took a shot at Winota but then had to change gears to go after Ghave for most of the rest of the game.

I was able to get down a Recruiter of the Guard which did highlight one glaring omission: False Prophet. I think I need to get that in here as I think he would have helped slow down the game. I got my sac outlet first though (which I would have done anyway) and got Cartel Aristocrat. This was because I had the 2 mana to cast it and the protection likely would have been more valuable than Scrying from Viscera Seer. I think I made the right call.

I ended up sacrificing the Recruiter which came back from Broodmoth and I picked up Midnight Reaper. I also sacrificed Hallowed Spiritkeeper to get tokens. Both of these were in response to a Chained to the Rocks from Winota trying to get my Broodmoth. I then sacrificed Broodmoth to Aristrocrat though I should have sacrificed it to my Diamond Valley; just an oversight but one that was ultimately irrelevant.

Winota started really taking off though had a few whiffs on her trigger so we were saved on that. I was still focused on Ghave though due to a Mycoloth that would really start getting out of control after a few turns.

Around this time, I did have an opportunity to cast Queen Marchesa and I think it would have been fine. I likely would have lost the Monarch and Ghave would have taken it, but I likely would have been fine with that so people could just go after each other. I had fliers to get it back as needed. But, I held up my mana for the Rally the Ancestors in my hand which I ended up not needing.

I did block weird one turn where Ghave attacked me and I should have blocked their 9/9 mycoloth with a token and instead I blocked one of the other tokens attacking me. I did block the other token with a spirit and Cartel Aristocrat so I could kill it.

At this time, I was actually wanting to get rid of Ghave solely because they had Necrogenesis on the field which would have messed up my Rally. Luckily, they died off of a Vial Smasher trigger when they cast Time Stretch. Unluckily, Vial Smasher just cast Time Stretch

I let it go instead of trying to dig for a Pyroblast or something. I also didn't count my board at the time and it turned out I had lethal. So, they took their two turns and on the first of the two they cast Jace, Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound which then allowed them to recast Time Stretch. They did so, and then copied the trigger from Vial Smasher with Strionic Resonator. I figured since they were tapped out (which they were before as well) I should probably try to kill them.

They were at 26 life and Winota was at 24. I had Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Falkenrath Noble, Recruiter of the Guard, Cartel Aristocrat, Midnight Reaper, and Zulaport Cutthroat on the field with Luminous Broodmoth still in the graveyard.

I started sacrificing things and getting 2 "drain" triggers for each dying creature. I pointed the triggers from Noble at Vial Smasher and just let Cutthroat drain them both. I timed it so Spiritkeeper's trigger didn't resolve until I sacrificed everything so I got 6 Spirit tokens.

I then cast Rally the Ancestors and got everything back. I sacrificed Spiritkeeper, Recruiter, Cutthroat, and Reaper to get triggers and get them back with Broodmoth. I ordered the triggers slightly weird at this point so I didn't get nearly the number of Spirits I should have gotten off Spiritkeeper (it didn't matter this time but still something to watch for).

All of this was enough to drain Vial Smasher for their 26 life and I still had enough to drain Winota for the remaining 13 life they had after the Cutthroat triggers knocked them down. They scooped before the triggers actually killed them though.

Overall, the deck performed fantastically for its first outing. I did miss False Prophet and I don't think I really needed Phyrexian Delver so I am going to swap them for now to see how well that might work out.

Otherwise, I am really pleased with the way it played and the only real disappointment is that I was a bit stingy with Queen Marchesa. Not sure if that is right or now but at least I know the deck functions without her

Click here to view game 1 in main post

06/04/20

CUTS

ADDS

1 False Prophet

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

Looking forward to watching this tomorrow

.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Looking forward to watching this tomorrow .

I had to upload it twice since I didn't realize there was a 15 minute limit unless I verified my account (that shows how much I use YouTube to upload videos

). But, it looks like it is there now.

Also, I stupidly forgot to record *during* the match so I just recorded the replay. Which is why it starts off kind of weird.

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

Man I can see what you mean about REB/Pyro. That woulda been sweet to blow out that near-tapout time stretch. As is you just killed him which was nice

What a sick win with the rally, that was great.

Lol @ the stack. Excellent.

So I never record during matches because recording the replay is always 10x faster in terms of viewing. If you're recording during the match you will need to chop out tons of time or it'll be really long. Some of my games are 1:30 or more.

Not surprising you did a good job navigating a pretty complex pile of triggers. The build looks solid. Spiritkeeper was a ridiculous boss. You got them all with dudes to spare.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Man I can see what you mean about REB/Pyro. That woulda been sweet to blow out that near-tapout time stretch. As is you just killed him which was nice What a sick win with the rally, that was great.

I still think you are probably correct in a general sense though: the deck doesn't care quite as much about blue since countering things only does so much. It would have been cool, but also wouldn't have actually won me the game. I like having 1 of them just in case though.

Lol @ the stack. Excellent.

So I never record during matches because recording the replay is always 10x faster in terms of viewing. If you're recording during the match you will need to chop out tons of time or it'll be really long. Some of my games are 1:30 or more.

Is there a way to speed up the replay? I couldn't quite figure out the controls on the bottom as pressing a button other than "play" seemed to stop the replay. I would have liked to make the replay faster and then it can just be slowed down during viewing.

Not surprising you did a good job navigating a pretty complex pile of triggers. The build looks solid. Spiritkeeper was a ridiculous boss. You got them all with dudes to spare.

I like that they have a "and keep targets" for the triggers. It helped with the Falkenrath Noble triggers a lot. I just wasn't sure what would happen when they died so I removed the auto targeting right before they died.

Otherwise, the Yield All you mentioned and Always Yes were good. I don't like I needed the Always Yes, but Yielding to the Cutthroat and Noble triggers sped things up considerably.

Spiritkeeper was a beast in Teysa when I had her built which is why I knew I wanted it here. And, even with only 6 creature cards in the graveyard, he produced a ton of value. It was amazing how much it actually did.

It was a good game and I am glad you convinced me to look more towards this build

I will end up editing the first post and start keeping a change log as well.

Even dealing with the triggers and priority passes were fine. I just pressed "2" most of the time to pass priority which seemed fast enough in most cases. Activating Aristocrat was probably the most tedious but that wasn't too bad either.

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

You can click the |> button to speed it up but you basically have to click the whole way through the replay. That's what I do since it's faster than going in and cutting out dead air space. I usually wind up with a 5-8 minute video which I feel is about ideal for getting the gist of what was happening.

I think if I was narrating I might prefer to record live and just let it go -- or maybe twitch stream it and save those -- since it's also theoretically nice to hear thought processes and such. But most people edit those down which, well, I really find tedious.

Yeah, you have to be pretty careful with the sac creatures since it's very easy to click twice and sac themselves (in the case of viscera seer) or accidentally sac the wrong dude, and there's no takebacks afaik.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

pokken wrote: ↑
3 years ago
You can click the |> button to speed it up but you basically have to click the whole way through the replay. That's what I do since it's faster than going in and cutting out dead air space. I usually wind up with a 5-8 minute video which I feel is about ideal for getting the gist of what was happening.

I tried this and it looks like it works fine without needing to click the whole way through. I just clicked the |> button and let it run. Using that though didn't really speed anything up as it still came out to be 19 minutes unless I am doing something wrong. Or, unless I did that the first time and wasn't really thinking about what I was doing.

It sort of sucks since I don't have a second monitor (I use a projector to get a really big screen instead

) which means I can't use my PC while recording the Replay. So, that is why I am thinking of recording the game "live" and then just speeding up the recording.

I think if I was narrating I might prefer to record live and just let it go -- or maybe twitch stream it and save those -- since it's also theoretically nice to hear thought processes and such. But most people edit those down which, well, I really find tedious.

I have thought about doing this as well. Maybe I will try one once but, like you said, it means a lot more editing (or just leaving the video at the actual length).

Yeah, you have to be pretty careful with the sac creatures since it's very easy to click twice and sac themselves (in the case of viscera seer) or accidentally sac the wrong dude, and there's no takebacks afaik.

I think you are right. I tried to "undo" a target in a solitaire game and I wasn't able to do that so I imagine there isn't much for takebacks if the ability is activated and something changes zones.

I am hopefully going to get another game or two in tonight so I will see if the new changes do much.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

I got another game in tonight. This one went on for a while and I ended up having a cool play but had to tap out which affected things. Maybe I was a bit too greedy?

Anyway, I was playing against Nikara, Lair Scavenger & Yannik, Scavenging Sentinel, Roon of the Hidden Realm, and God-Eternal Bontu,

I did a lot of nothing this game. And I mean *a lot*

I did get Queen Marchesa down and kept the Monarch for most of the game. Bontu stole it once, and Roon had no desire for it for some reason, but otherwise I kept it.

I did keep a somewhat sketchy hand, but it wasn't bad. It got Marchesa down turn 4 with a couple blockers to help out. Partners exiled my Teferi's Protection which kind of sucked and Roon just went off. Guardian Project is definitely a card and drew them somewhere around a billion cards during the game. We had a hell of a time getting rid of it. In that no one actually tried

I did get Hallowed Spiritkeeper down again but it didn't do quite as much. And I basically drew the wrong half of my deck for most of the game. The first 4 Monarch triggers (or something like that) were lands.

Partners tried to cast Damnation to slow down Roon but they bounced it with Venser. They tried again next turn and I was able to Chaos Warp Venser in response to Restoration Angel.

The board was cleared, but Roon rebuilt. And they rebuilt hard. I had an Hour of Revelation in hand for a while but was slow rolling it because I needed to make sure it resolved. In the mean time, I also had a Comeuppance to save me and I cast a Corpse Augur. This is probably my biggest misplay in that I played it and then *didn't* play High Market for my land. Roon had a ton of cards in their graveyard so I could have drawn a bunch of cards. Instead, they cast Diluvian Primordial to get my Path to Exile (which I had cast on Sin Collector; which was probably a mistake in hindsight). Augur is gone and I got no cards from it.

Eventually, things just got too much for Partners, and it was late, so they scooped which actually may have cost us the game (and I say "us" because it was clearly all of us against Roon). This is because Bontu attempted to wrath and Roon cast Ghostway in response. They had 3 mana open with one being Blue so I fired off Hour.

That resolved and then I cast Thrilling Encore. This might have been a mistake but I wanted to blow up their Alchemist's Refuge with the Acidic Slime I got from them and I wanted to put pressure on them. The worst part was that there were only 9 nonland permanents on the field so I had to tap out to do all this. If Partners was still around, I could have gotten the discount.

This is important because Roon immediately went for Deadeye Navigator and Peregrine Drake to attempt to get infinite mana. I had Swords to Plowshares in hand and could have exiled the Drake before it was paired. I know they had Frilled Mystic in hand since they cast it later but I am not sure if they had mana untapped at the time to cast it. I will review the replay a little later to figure it out.

If they didn't, we might have been able to stop them. As it was, they just went infinite with blinks and End-Raze Forerunners to kill us both.

It was super disappointing to not really get any of the cards I needed to get. I didn't get any Aristocrats or even much to be able to commit to the board. I think the deck still had a shot but I took a long time of doing nothing which just meant it was far too slow to do much of anything.

I do think Chainer, Dementia Master is just the wrong card for the deck. I had him in hand for a long time and, if I had 5 black mana instead of 4, I might have cast him earlier which could have stolen some of Roon's stuff. But it still isn't something I want to bank on. I need to cut it for something else and I am thinking that I should just go with another wrath. I don't really like that idea so maybe a cheap spot removal card would work?

It is hard to go too far in any direction since I really just didn't draw a lot of what I wanted and ended up with too many lands. Maybe I could afford to go down to 38 lands? I might think of that as well.

The replay feature ended up being sort of wonky and just "stopping" in the middle so I didn't really get a good video of the game. The summary above covers most of the salient points as it is anyway.

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

After some though I realized "hey, I am in Red and I am using Recruiter of the Guard; why not Imperial Recruiter too?". So, that is what I did. I added Imperial Recruiter and cut Chainer. I am still thinking I might be able to go down a land, but I am not sure what else I want to put in there yet.

06/05/20

CUTS

ADDS