Sisay: Legendary Creature Toolbox

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

I've had a Commander deck full of commanders in one form or another for nearly a decade. It started with Cromat, and has shifted commanders through Ramos, Dragon Engine and is now led by Sisay, Weatherlight Captain. Throughout the lifecycle of this deck, the purpose has always been a place for the legendary creatures that I like to play, but don't have a deck to lead. When Ramos lead, this included Damia, Sage of Stone, Prime Speaker Zegana and more card advantage or tutors. Sisay, Weatherlight Captain and Rienne, Angel of Rebirth have since shifted the deck away from draw and tutor effects and towards a multi-colored legendary toolbox that is more responsive with resiliency, protection, disruption, and non-combat winconditions.

The primary deck restriction is that it should only be using legendary creatures. The second restriction is that this deck shares a manabase with 3 other 5 color decks: legendary dragons, superfriends, and Elemental tribal. This makes changes to bias the colors of the manabase to match any one deck's color distribution less viable. Additionally, it contains a Maze's End win condition and one of my favorite cards as a small taste of 5-color.

This deck shares a manabase among four decks, listed here in intentionally descending power level.
Legendary Toolbox
Approximate Total Cost:

The gameplan is to play a 2-3 color creature and Sisay before reaching wubrg. This is usually possible around turn 4 with most hands. The first activation usually has one of the following options. The decision can be weighted by a desired to just get more colors and expand the toolbox vs protection or disruption.
  • Saffi Eriksdotter is protection for my current board state. This can be tutored in response to removal, you you don't need to telegraph it. If you didn't need the reaction, this can still be a reasonable option for some resiliency.
  • Gaddock Teeg and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade are both proactive disruption, either preventing most board wipes or slowing down an artifact-heavy ramp deck. These should be tutored the turn before the player(s) that they're intended to disrupt. These are reasonable options at the end-step before you untap if you didn't need to react but expect to need this disruption.
  • Lazav, the Multifarious is primarily useful in the late game as backup for key cards that may have died. Selecting Lazav early only makes sense if you really need the colors for the next toolbox.
  • Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy is new and untested, but I expect him to become the greediest option here if disruption and protection were not needed. With 15 mana rocks and now 3 mana producing creatures, Kinnan should enable faster ramp and getting to a 2x activation more quickly.
The second activation should always be able to get a 3 CMC target. If the initial legend first activation had no color overlap with the resulting search, this may be 4 CMC. The main difference here is the depth of interaction if needed. Options such as Venser Shaper Savant, Shalai, Voice of Plenty or Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero offer a lot of protection. However, unless those were necessary then the second and third activation should usually always be the same targets.
  • Selvala, Heart of the Wilds should usually be the second card searched if able. Scaling any color combination of mana off the power of Sisay, Weatherlight Captain is one of the fastest pathways to a multiple activation turn and a winning combat step. Holding off until an end step is best is haste is not out yet. If CMC 4 is available, then finding Chainer, Nightmare Adept can be a safer route.
  • Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is usually the card that I find after Selvala. Untapping Selvala on EtB, and potentially more if done during combat is a fast way to putting the deck into play. This combination is the primary mana engine.
The alternative 3 CMC options add more to the disruption of opponents if necessary, mostly regarding graveyard based strategies. The other cards are usually better served as options later in the game or after the primary mana engine is destroyed.
  • Selvala, Explorer Returned is a backup mana source, and usually not as effective as Heart of the Wilds.
  • Anafenza, the Foremost is a hatebear to punish most graveyard loops and recursion engines. It can also be another way to add power to Sisay beyond the colors.
  • Kunoros, Hound of Athreos is a similar hatebear to Anafenza, but also stops Yawgmoth's Will, Underworld Breach, and graveyard recursion that doesn't care about where the card ends up like Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. The drawbacks here are that it's symmetric, so it stops Kethis, Chainer, and Primevils' Rebirth. It also has fewer colors that Anafenza. The choice between them is situational.
  • Kethis, the Hidden Hand is usually not found early game. This is primarily to rebuild either after a board wipe or bounce effect via cost reduction. If you need a card just for the colors, find Anafenza first.
  • Judith, the Scourge Diva can be found early primarily for the +3 to Sisay. However, if you manage to set up a recursion loop, this can be a damage outlet to deal lethal damage, so having it unprotected isn't ideal.
  • Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist performs two effective roles. Foremost, if she is tapped then only a single creature can attack you. This effectively stops any size of token swarm. Second, she provides evasion to an attack. This allows for a larger attacking force to hit and trigger Derevi, Empyrial Tactician.
  • Kambal, Consul of Allocation to tax non-creatures and punish most storm/combo players

If 4 CMC is available for the second activation, then the main reason to use it before setting up Selvala+Derevi is for protection or setup. Those options are:
  • Venser, Shaper Savant to either avoid removal or bounce said removal back to hand. The latter is most effective against board wipes with Gaddock Teeg following to prevent it from coming back.
  • Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero to weather the board wipe
  • Shalai, Voice of Plenty in response to targeted removal
  • Sakashima the Impostor in response to targeted removal on Shalai, or as a backup for a key card if necessary. Rarely can clone an opponents bomb/recursion.
  • Chainer, Nightmare Adept gives haste to everything tutored via Sisay as well as some recursion options. This is a viable option as the second activation at an end step, because it enables lines of play such as Selvala → Derevi, untap → Aurelia, attack → untap 4 times. This can be the fastest route to winning.
  • Marisi, Breaker of the Coil protects Sisay if you activate during combat. The goad can be needed early in order to force a voltron deck to attack elsewhere.
  • Marchesa, the Black Rose provides some backup survival options against board wipes, and can add some extra power to Sisay via dethrone. She can be used to hide your battlefield in the graveyard thought a Cyclonic Rift or Final Judgment if they are cast unexpectedly.
  • Renata, Called to the Hunt generates the +1/+1 counters for Marchesa.
After this point, the toolbox is almost completely open. They generally fall into one of several categories: interaction, setup, and combat.
The setup cards consist of tutoring, card and tempo advantage, backup mana generation, and other power increases to fully open the toolbox. The interaction options consist of more complete disruption, recursion, and prevention. This also adds in removal options.
  • Sen Triplets is best if there is a highly interactive deck at the table. With protection from Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir putting this into play during the previous end step allows you to first known what to play around, and second to direct their resources elsewhere.
  • Sigarda, Host of Herons is highly effective against Grave Pact or annihilator. Because the lockdown route limits opponents to casting creatures that cost more than 3, this shores up one of the main vulnerabilities.
  • Bruna, the Fading Light and Gisela, the Broken Blade are here primarily for Brisela, Voice of Nightmares to combine with Gaddock Teeg. Commander can be all about battle cruiser decks, so these combine to prevent the casting of anything other than a creature that cost 4 or more. Bruna can't recur on the tutor, so searching these is usually for Brisela specifically.
  • Avacyn, Angel of Hope is fairly straightforward. Indestructibility is good. Add Teeg, Brisela, Sigarda, Shalai and Sakashima (as Shalai) for an nigh-untouchable battlefield
  • Rienne, Angel of Rebirth will recur most creatures when they die and adds some power.
  • Yomiji, Who Bars the Way will recur all creatures when they die, immediately. With a sacrifice outlet, you can loop Derevi, Empyrial Tactician to untap a mana source and recast to generate infinite mana and trigger Judith, the Scourge Diva for infinite damage.
  • Legacy Weapon is tutorable removal for anything. It's not efficient but it is on theme.
  • Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter is a potential machine gun for creatures with a sacrifice loop. It's also the sacrifice outlet for the Yomiji combo mentioned above.
  • Tsabo Tavoc destroys nearly all commanders
  • Empress Galina steals them instead
The last toolbox options are primarily for closing out the game in combat. This is supposed to be a semi-midrange deck after all.
Last edited by Crazy Monkey 3 years ago, edited 10 times in total.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Theoric
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Post by Theoric » 3 years ago

Lately I definitely prefer Sisay when it has Jegantha, the Wellspring in the companion zone. I'm guessing you don't want to give up the 5-10 cards necessary to make that happen so I'll mention some random thoughts that my Sisay deck before Jegantha was spoiled. I do the same as you incidentally, I use a 5-color mana base and swap out cards for a few different decks (Kenrith, Najeela, Scion of the Ur Dragon).

It's good you have green Selvala because she's a powerhouse (especially when heroes' podium is on the field), but so were untappers like Samut, Voice of Dissent, the Kiora planeswalkers, Gideon Martial Paragon, etc. Also, Aminatou, the fateshifter's ability to flicker things is crazy good.

Here's a typical chain in my current build (when Sisay and Jegantha are both on the field).
tap Jegantha - bring out Derevi, Empyrial Tactician(untap Jegantha) (Sisay is 6/6 now)
tap Jegantha - bring out Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner (untap Jegantha)
tap Jegantha - bring out Oath of Teferi (planeswalkers can be used twice now). Use Kiora a 2nd time to untap Jegantha.
tap Jegantha - bring out Gideon, martial paragon (untap all creatures)
tap Jegantha - bring out Kinnan, bonder prodigy. Use Gideon to untap creatures a 2nd time.
tap Jegantha - bring out Samut, voice of dissent. Use Kinnan to float 1 white mana, and use it on Samut to untap Jegantha.
tap Jegantha - bring out Aminatou, the fateshifter. Exile and return Gideon. Each time you use Gideon to untap all creatures, you get at least 2 activations of Jegantha, thanks to Samut and Kinnan. Use Gideon to untap creatures.
tap Jegantha twice - bring out 2 more things.
Use Gideon a 2nd time. Use Jegantha for 2 more things.
Use Aminatou a 2nd time to exile/return Gideon and 4 more Jegantha activations.

Note: Gideon is especially good with Selvala since every time you use it, creatures get bigger and she makes more mana.

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Tevesh
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Post by Tevesh » 3 years ago

Blackblade Reforged would really help you, then you don't need to have lots of permanents out for Sisay to be ale to fetch other Legends.

You should probably also run more protection; add Marchesa, the Black Rose and a bunch of +1/+1 makers like Rishkar, Peema Renegade so you can fetch protection on demand.

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Theoric wrote:
3 years ago
Lately I definitely prefer Sisay when it has Jegantha, the Wellspring in the companion zone. I'm guessing you don't want to give up the 5-10 cards necessary to make that happen so I'll mention some random thoughts that my Sisay deck before Jegantha was spoiled. I do the same as you incidentally, I use a 5-color mana base and swap out cards for a few different decks (Kenrith, Najeela, Scion of the Ur Dragon).

It's good you have green Selvala because she's a powerhouse (especially when heroes' podium is on the field), but so were untappers like Samut, Voice of Dissent, the Kiora planeswalkers, Gideon Martial Paragon, etc. Also, Aminatou, the fateshifter's ability to flicker things is crazy good.

Here's a typical chain in my current build (when Sisay and Jegantha are both on the field).
tap Jegantha - bring out Derevi, Empyrial Tactician(untap Jegantha) (Sisay is 6/6 now)
tap Jegantha - bring out Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner (untap Jegantha)
tap Jegantha - bring out Oath of Teferi (planeswalkers can be used twice now). Use Kiora a 2nd time to untap Jegantha.
tap Jegantha - bring out Gideon, martial paragon (untap all creatures)
tap Jegantha - bring out Kinnan, bonder prodigy. Use Gideon to untap creatures a 2nd time.
tap Jegantha - bring out Samut, voice of dissent. Use Kinnan to float 1 white mana, and use it on Samut to untap Jegantha.
tap Jegantha - bring out Aminatou, the fateshifter. Exile and return Gideon. Each time you use Gideon to untap all creatures, you get at least 2 activations of Jegantha, thanks to Samut and Kinnan. Use Gideon to untap creatures.
tap Jegantha twice - bring out 2 more things.
Use Gideon a 2nd time. Use Jegantha for 2 more things.
Use Aminatou a 2nd time to exile/return Gideon and 4 more Jegantha activations.

Note: Gideon is especially good with Selvala since every time you use it, creatures get bigger and she makes more mana.
One of my other decks with the shared manabase is a nearly creatureless superfriends, so I try to keep this at only legendary creatures. That limitation makes winning off of Jegantha via companion significantly more difficult, and almost certainly not worth the costs in deck construction. I have seen the Sisay+Jegantha decklists be very potent, but there aren't enough creatures that untap to replace the planeswalkers for this deck to do the same.

I like the idea of Samut, Voice of Dissent as another haste enabler that can add extra untap triggers, both from Derevi, Empyrial Tactician and itself. I'll probably swap Urabrask the Hidden despite the potential for repeatable goading via Marisi, Breaker of the Coil.
Tevesh wrote:
3 years ago
Blackblade Reforged would really help you, then you don't need to have lots of permanents out for Sisay to be ale to fetch other Legends.

You should probably also run more protection; add Marchesa, the Black Rose and a bunch of +1/+1 makers like Rishkar, Peema Renegade so you can fetch protection on demand.
I do think that Blackblade Reforged is a good early source of power on Sisay, but I'm on the fence about whether I'd consider it within the legendary creatures theme. I'll keep it in mind for consideration.

I hadn't considered Marchesa, the Black Rose as a protection/recursion option. The closest comparisons I have currently are: At first glance, Marchesa is more cost efficient against single target removal than all my current recursion options. However, Shalai, Voice of Plenty fills this slot rather well, especially with clone backup via Sakashima the Impostor. This means that Marchesa would be the choice against repeatable, non-targeted effects. In my playgroup that would be Grave Pact or Pestilence. I have Sigarda, Host of Herons to stop sacrifice and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight to prevent damage, but again both have higher CMC.

I think Marchesa could be good here for some incidental power to Sisay and the potential for recursion. Requiring a second search to set up the +1/+1 counters in response is more broadly effective than my silver bullet approach to protection but more difficult to achieve in the mid-game. Because I play somewhat greedy in my searches and go for more setup/disruption if I'm not forced to tutor protection, I'm not sure how effective Marchesa would be for me. Proactively finding her on my turn before combat would be some added resiliency, but adding in sources of counters to enable her is a plan that I'm not convince of yet. I'll probably try swapping Marchesa for Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, because the draw is less needed with Sisay.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



ChazA4
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Post by ChazA4 » 3 years ago

From the perspective of working with original Sisay, I feel I can help you a bit more with some of these cards, even with the limitation I have of working with G/W:

Because both Sisays allow you to search for legendary PERMANENTS(and OG Sisay allows you even to search for legendary SPELLS), you may want to consider some legendary lands in your deck. One of the best for any Sisay deck would be(IMO), Untaidake the Cloud Keeper. Another top contender would be Hall of the Bandit Lord as a backup for Urabrask. They do produce colorless mana, so your mileage may vary; if you ever have the money though, don't forget Pendelhaven is a great G option, along with Eiganjo Castle for W. Probably others in the other colors too.

I don't know if 15 creatures in the appropriate colors are worth it, but Yeva, Nature's Herald is a great answer with the right cards to respond with. Obviously, it's a little more impressive in my deck.

Lieutenant Kirtar is a NASTY surprise for your opponents, and using Rishkar and Marchesa or other means to bounce him back to your battlefield will slow creature decks down considerably.

Bow of Nylea is, IMO, the most utilitarian god equipment from the OG Theros block. Gain life, shoot down flyers, recur your graveyard, or put counters on creatures...I would contend that there is never a 'non-use' for this card in Gx decks. Giving your creatures deathtouch while attacking is just an icing bonus.

The Great Henge would be another fantastic option if you decide to add Marchesa in the deck; automatic graveyard bounce/res as soon as they enter every time(good luck killing my stuff!)

That's all I've got...lemme know what you think!

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

ChazA4 wrote:
3 years ago
From the perspective of working with original Sisay, I feel I can help you a bit more with some of these cards, even with the limitation I have of working with G/W:

Because both Sisays allow you to search for legendary PERMANENTS(and OG Sisay allows you even to search for legendary SPELLS), you may want to consider some legendary lands in your deck. One of the best for any Sisay deck would be(IMO), Untaidake the Cloud Keeper. Another top contender would be Hall of the Bandit Lord as a backup for Urabrask. They do produce colorless mana, so your mileage may vary; if you ever have the money though, don't forget Pendelhaven is a great G option, along with Eiganjo Castle for W. Probably others in the other colors too.
Thanks for the feedback.

Back before Sisay, Weatherlight Captain was printed and the deck was Ramos, Dragon Engine, it would usually cast Time of Need to find Captain Sisay, so I have run similar playstyle before. Having access to all 5 colors of lands is beneficial here, because it opens the option for Minamo, School at Water's Edge as an untap effect, which seems potent for me. Admittedly, spending wubrg for a land is a bit expensive, but if I already have the original Sisay or I need another activation on Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or Jegantha, the Wellspring then this is a good addition. I've held off on going full non-basic lands so that I can get something, anything off Path to Exile or Wave of Vitriol, but maybe that trade off is worth it. The potential drawback is high because the shared manabase here means that the other 3 decks, which can't really benefit from the swap, would have to deal with the downside.

I may just drop the island for Minamo and leave the other basics. It offends my sense of symmetry but it's probably the best option.
I don't know if 15 creatures in the appropriate colors are worth it, but Yeva, Nature's Herald is a great answer with the right cards to respond with. Obviously, it's a little more impressive in my deck.
I agree that having access to instant speed options is great. I run similar options that are all upside for me in the form of Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir.
Lieutenant Kirtar is a NASTY surprise for your opponents, and using Rishkar and Marchesa or other means to bounce him back to your battlefield will slow creature decks down considerably.
This is an interesting option. One of the weaknesses that I've found in my build has been early aggressive pressure such as Krenko or Najeela. I actually added Marisi, Breaker of the Coil in this slot to behave as a proactive fog effect by preventing the goaded creatures from attacking me. Lieutenant Kirtar is a way to re-actively punish voltron. I like this method of protection with recursion online, but only targeting 1 creature makes him a bit less effective that I'd like. If I need a similar effect, I can get that from Venser, Shaper Savant to avoid dying to unblockable voltron. What's more likely to kill me is a swarm of tokens, so I'd prefer to have something like Angus Mackenzie (if his price were lower). Marisi had some other synergies with stack control and made the current cut
Bow of Nylea is, IMO, the most utilitarian god equipment from the OG Theros block. Gain life, shoot down flyers, recur your graveyard, or put counters on creatures...I would contend that there is never a 'non-use' for this card in Gx decks. Giving your creatures deathtouch while attacking is just an icing bonus.
I agree with the praises of the bow, it does a lot of work in my Marath, Will of the Wild build. Here it would be an effective way to enable Marchesa, the Black Rose. However, I'm not sure it would fit in my "creatures only" limitation. This one is a bit more of a stretch for me than Blackblade Reforged would be. I'm undecided.
The Great Henge would be another fantastic option if you decide to add Marchesa in the deck; automatic graveyard bounce/res as soon as they enter every time(good luck killing my stuff!)

That's all I've got...lemme know what you think!
Great henge would be good here, especially with Marchesa. If the deck had a standalone manabase I would be dropping a 2 CMC manarock for this. Without splitting the manabase, it competes with my creatures. I may just drop Selvala, Explorer Returned for it. This is more acceptable within limitation than some of the other non-creature because I'm already running a lot of manarocks. This is just a tutorable one that happens to power up a recursion engine and generate card advantage. I really like this suggestion.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



ChazA4
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Post by ChazA4 » 3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
ChazA4 wrote:
3 years ago
...
Lieutenant Kirtar is a NASTY surprise for your opponents, and using Rishkar and Marchesa or other means to bounce him back to your battlefield will slow creature decks down considerably.
This is an interesting option. One of the weaknesses that I've found in my build has been early aggressive pressure such as Krenko or Najeela. I actually added Marisi, Breaker of the Coil in this slot to behave as a proactive fog effect by preventing the goaded creatures from attacking me. Lieutenant Kirtar is a way to re-actively punish voltron. I like this method of protection with recursion online, but only targeting 1 creature makes him a bit less effective that I'd like. If I need a similar effect, I can get that from Venser, Shaper Savant to avoid dying to unblockable voltron. What's more likely to kill me is a swarm of tokens, so I'd prefer to have something like Angus Mackenzie (if his price were lower). Marisi had some other synergies with stack control and made the current cut
...
Bolded emphasis mine and cut for clarity and conciseness.

This being your concern, then I introduce you to Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist. Say goodbye to swarm deaths. She's almost a character you WANT tapped down in any way(making her a good target for Derevi's effect).

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

ChazA4 wrote:
3 years ago
Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
ChazA4 wrote:
3 years ago
...

This is an interesting option. One of the weaknesses that I've found in my build has been early aggressive pressure such as Krenko or Najeela. I actually added Marisi, Breaker of the Coil in this slot to behave as a proactive fog effect by preventing the goaded creatures from attacking me. Lieutenant Kirtar is a way to re-actively punish voltron. I like this method of protection with recursion online, but only targeting 1 creature makes him a bit less effective that I'd like. If I need a similar effect, I can get that from Venser, Shaper Savant to avoid dying to unblockable voltron. What's more likely to kill me is a swarm of tokens, so I'd prefer to have something like Angus Mackenzie (if his price were lower). Marisi had some other synergies with stack control and made the current cut
...
Bolded emphasis mine and cut for clarity and conciseness.

This being your concern, then I introduce you to Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist. Say goodbye to swarm deaths. She's almost a character you WANT tapped down in any way(making her a good target for Derevi's effect).
That's an excellent idea. she's just as proactive, but the fact that she also prevents blockers should enable more derevi triggers to untap mana sources. There are usually a couple of non-flying creatures that would otherwise not be able to deal damage. I'm most likely to try swapping Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir here because Marisi, Breaker of the Coil provides the same level of protection during combat and a 2 color, 3 CMC option is much better when setting up. I'd have to start searching creatures out during the beginning of combat step, before declaring attackers, but that's not a big deal as long as I have/can get haste.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



Theoric
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Post by Theoric » 3 years ago

A few more random thoughts.

Merieke Ri Berit is easy to cast, great at filling out Sisay's color pie, steals creatures, and is good at destroying them too. She plays nice with Samut, and even better with Derevi (every untap trigger you throw at her can destroy someone's creature).
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is great at keeping creatures alive, and if you get him and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter on the field, that's infinite creature removal at instant speed. It might be tough getting Sisay big enough to cheat out that stuff, so you could consider cards like invigorate for her.

You mentioned that this is a theme deck. Mine is as well--except the theme I use is Sisay's weatherlight crew. You already have about half the crew members so I figured I'd throw it out there what my theme is about, in case you were flexible about yours. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22044&p=50077#p50077
The Weatherlight Crew
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Urza created the Weatherlight in the Tolarian Academy and Sisay inherited it from her family after they were killed. The ship and crew were instrumental in the defense of Dominaria during the Phyrexian invasion. It could hold 40 but here are six of the most notable crewmembers.
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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Theoric wrote:
3 years ago
A few more random thoughts.

Merieke Ri Berit is easy to cast, great at filling out Sisay's color pie, steals creatures, and is good at destroying them too. She plays nice with Samut, and even better with Derevi (every untap trigger you throw at her can destroy someone's creature).
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is great at keeping creatures alive, and if you get him and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter on the field, that's infinite creature removal at instant speed. It might be tough getting Sisay big enough to cheat out that stuff, so you could consider cards like invigorate for her.

You mentioned that this is a theme deck. Mine is as well--except the theme I use is Sisay's weatherlight crew. You already have about half the crew members so I figured I'd throw it out there what my theme is about, in case you were flexible about yours. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22044&p=50077#p50077
The Weatherlight Crew
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Urza created the Weatherlight in the Tolarian Academy and Sisay inherited it from her family after they were killed. The ship and crew were instrumental in the defense of Dominaria during the Phyrexian invasion. It could hold 40 but here are six of the most notable crewmembers.
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Merieke is an interesting option at 3 CMC. My only hangup is that I don't have a way to untap here, so she's more of a one-shot effect. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'll have to think it over.

I do like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed as another board wipe protection that saves most of my creatures, and I had not thought of that Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter combo. He also works well with Marchesa, the Black Rose, even if he doesn't protect her. 6 CMC is getting up there, but I should give him a try if I get the chance.

I have looked at your build and some others since the Sisay+Jegartha pair up was being explored. I'll try to come up with some specific ideas.

I do like the weatherlight crew as a theme, and adding Mirri when I'm probably cutting Jhoira does get me closer to the original crew list. I know Gideon, Martial Paragon is a key untap engine in your build, but I haven't figured out which crew member he represents. I would have guessed Gerrard, but he's already there.

Admittedly, I sometimes use the word 'theme' perhaps more often then I should. I don't really have that many decks that are intended to tell a story. As is the case for this deck, it's often a more 'thematic limitation' instead of trying to evoke some specific source material or tell a story. For example, what I often mean is that I want to be as close to 'legendary creatures tribal' as a deckbuilding concept and limitation. I then focus on a playstyle that makes thematic sense within that limitation, such as this deck winning via combat damage because it is a 'tribal deck'.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



Theoric
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Post by Theoric » 3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
I haven't figured out which crew member he represents. I would have guessed Gerrard, but he's already there.
The following planeswalkers were once crew member of the reconstructed Weatherlight. However, none of them remained in Dominaria shortly after the destruction of Belzenlok's Cabal.
Ajani Goldmane.[5]
Gideon Jura [5]
Liliana Vess [5]
Teferi [6]
Jaya Ballard [7]
Karn [7]
Chandra Nalaar [7]
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Weatherlight_crew
I know it's a bit of a stretch to associate Gideon with the original crew. But he's amazing in the deck and he can turn himself into a creature and fight with the others so I bend the rules a bit for him.

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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 3 years ago

Sisay is super powerful. Sisay plus Selvalla will make anything else you're doing feel sort of secondary. As someone who hasn't really enjoyed that play pattern, I'm un-Sisaying my legends deck, so thank you for wanting that aspect so that it's got a replacement thread here.

Your deck lacks Cathedral of Serra though.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Theoric wrote:
3 years ago
Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
I haven't figured out which crew member he represents. I would have guessed Gerrard, but he's already there.
The following planeswalkers were once crew member of the reconstructed Weatherlight. However, none of them remained in Dominaria shortly after the destruction of Belzenlok's Cabal.
Ajani Goldmane.[5]
Gideon Jura [5]
Liliana Vess [5]
Teferi [6]
Jaya Ballard [7]
Karn [7]
Chandra Nalaar [7]
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Weatherlight_crew
I know it's a bit of a stretch to associate Gideon with the original crew. But he's amazing in the deck and he can turn himself into a creature and fight with the others so I bend the rules a bit for him.
Point taken, I was too focused on the original crew to realize that you may be combining multiple crews.
tstorm823 wrote:
3 years ago
Sisay is super powerful. Sisay plus Selvalla will make anything else you're doing feel sort of secondary. As someone who hasn't really enjoyed that play pattern, I'm un-Sisaying my legends deck, so thank you for wanting that aspect so that it's got a replacement thread here.

Your deck lacks Cathedral of Serra though.
I agree, if I wanted to power down this deck then the only swap necessary would be selvala for Zaxara, the Exemplary. I am a bit disappointed that the best line of play is so direct: find selvala while setting up an protecting the board. There is a deep enough toolbox that I'm not considering that step yet.

Re: legendary and banding lands, I did appreciate the legendary bandwagon but my shared mana base and massive payout from Derevi triggers keeps me from including it.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Changelog:
OutInWhy
IslandMinamo, School at Water's EdgeSisay tutor-able land which can uptap manadorks
Jhoira, Weatherlight CaptainMarchesa, the Black Rosedropped last draw effect for more colors and recursion/resiliency
Selvala, Explorer ReturnedThe Great Hengesignificantly higher CMC, but gives counters at EtB for Marchesa. This is pushing the envelop of my limitation somewhat by adding another non-creature, but I've excused it due to the density of pre-existing manarocks
Urabrask the HiddenSamut, Voice of DissentAdds another color, and an uptap effect for manadorks. Loses some board control, but worth the swap
Teferi, Mage of ZhalfirMirri, Weatherlight DuelistTeferi was somewhat redundant after adding Marisi, Breaker of the Coil and swapping to Sisay. Searching out creatures during the combat step before declaring attackers has worked well. Mirri adds more colors, is more cast-able, and protects from attacks going wide.


I need to thank @Theoric and @ChazA4 for those suggestions, they have tested well in games so far and I'll finalize those swaps.

I'm going back over my list and have realized that I never really want to find Sidisi, Undead Vizier. I still don't think that I have enough support for Merieke Ri Berit, but am planning on a 2-4 CMC option that's 2+ colors.

The reason why is that, in a recent game I was hit with a wipe on turn 4 after I cast Jegantha, the Wellspring before Sisay, so that I could untap and have an activation ready. My hand was only manarocks and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter, so I didn't have any options to tutor off Sisay. I had 2-3 turns doing basically nothing until I drew Sen Triplets, which turned the engines back on.
SPOILER
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I'd also like to try finding some more hate-bear type options for various common strategies, such as wheels and storm. I'm currently considering the following: I'm interested in feedback, but currently leaning towards either Radha, Heir to Keld or Yarok, the Desecrated.
Am I missing a legendary creature which would work well against a turn 5-6 storm deck (before Brisela, Voice of Nightmares is viable)?

EDIT: After some brainstorming with members of my playgroup, I plan to test swapping Sidisi, Undead Vizier with Child of Alara. Having access to a board wipe at instant speed that I can either ignore with Avacyn, Angel of Hope or immediately rebuild from via Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero, Marchesa, the Black Rose, or Yomiji, Who Bars the Way seem like a good enough option to skip on a lower mana curve. Thanks to @kenbaumann for the idea.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Changelog:
OutInReason
The Great HengeRenata, Called to the HuntTutoring for the Henge was difficult mid-game. Renata retains the primary focus in providing +1/+1 counters for Marchesa, the Black Rose at a lower CMC. I considered Grumgully, the Generous, but have too many humans
Tsabo TavocKambal, Consul of AllocationMy primary objective here is reducing mana costs and adding an early/mid game toolbox punisher for storm/combo


I am getting a little worried that this deck may be perceived as a combo deck in my metagame, and wanted to add another toolbox option for most of the more common decks in the upper range of our power range, where scepter/reversal combos are common. I'm also going to revamp the mana base to drop the gates + Maze's End for the Onslaught/Khans fetches and triomes. This keeps the mana base lower cost for 5 color, but improves fixing and speeds it up a bit.

I intend to keep the gates with the rest of the manabase so I can swap back and forth. In fact, I may branch the deck to have an option to exclude some of the combos and run with the gates manabase so I can run it lower power. The primary reason for the split option is that this is one of the decks that I use to introduce myself to a new playgroup/players. When quarantine ends I'd like this to still be able to run into the middle range of power if I don't know a player/deck.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

I think that the trend this deck has been taking is solid, but I have a couple of problems with it. Strangely, they're kind of opposites.

The first issue is that all my recent games have ended with 5+ Derevi triggers in a combat, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, and tutoring an effective and protected lockout. This is not a responsive toolbox playstyle, which I hoped to keep. To fix this, I need to have incentives to limit the number of cards dumped into play in the combat step, and way to remain responsive. The best method that comes to mind is to use Marchesa as a semi-seedborn muse to react, then untap via sacrifice and recur at the end step. The problems here are:
1. my only sacrifice outlet is 7CMC, requiring the full toolbox.
2. Selvala is usually in play first, so it didn't enter with a counter.
3. Selvala also needs 1 green each turn, so a single creature is insufficient here. other mana sources need to be untapped.

The second issue is that, if I increase my estimated power level to where the deck may balance now, I am running into the Thassa's Oracle end of my metagame without any answers to it.

The fortunate side is that I can solve some of these issues with a single re-addition: Selvala, Explorer Returned, a creature which can force a card draw in an empty library on a mana ability that produces green. I will probably test this back, swapping Saskia the Unyielding. At a minimum, I have an out to Tainted Pact +oracle when the library is empty.

The next issue is adding +1/+1 counters to existing creatures. I have a couple of options, and am considering Ghave, Guru of Spores or Kenrith, the Returned King. Ghave also adds a lower cost sacrifice outlet, but Kenrith adds a second way to force a draw effect and other toolbox options.

I am undecided on this. If I go with Kenrith, the sacrifice outlet will probably be Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim for some backup removal options. I am leaning towards the kenrith+ayli package, but then I can just infintely combo off Selvala and enough power to net mana from recurring via Kenrith. The other downside is that I've been trying to go more multicolored to extend the abilities of Rienne, Angel of Rebirth, and Kenrith is monocolor, which is a bit off-theme, but is more on-theme as a toolbox in my toolbox.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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