Morophon, the Boundless- A Tribe Called Changeling

DrKillenger
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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
On an unrelated note. Here's my current decklist. I'm curious to know what you think of it. It diverges in a few interesting ways. Couple of deckbuilding notes. I try very hard to limit every tribe to a maximum of 3 cards unless they're ramp spells. I don't play any card in my deck unless it is a changeling, requires me to say a creature type, is a land, or is Chromatic Lantern (because my mana base reaaaaally needs it).

The cards that are currently in my consideration bucket are The Scarab God, Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Kogla, the Titan Ape, Molten Echoes, Dire Tactics and General Kudro of Drannith. I haven't had time to test any of them with the pandemic rolling around.
The first thing that jumps out to me is your mana base, you have 6 lands that only tap for colorless mana, and a total of 14 for basically anything that isn't a Changeling if you count the lands like Ally Encampment, Cavern of Souls, and Unclaimed Territory which is 17%/40% of your lands respectively. I don't even consider cards for my deck that have triple pips of a single color like Azami or Kogla and I can't even imagine trying to cast them here. Sure the mana slivers, Harabaz Druid, and rocks help in this regard, but if you don't draw into them or they get blown up I feel like you just end up dead in the water a lot of the time. Maybe I'm wrong but that's at least the impression that I get from a first glance.

I admire your dedication to the theme. My initial decklist was actually quite similar to this one (minus a lot of the newer cards obviously since I started about a year ago), but I eventually had to decide whether it was more important to fully commit to the theme of the deck or to add in some more generic cards like Birthing Pod and Skyshroud Claim so it could actually win games in my meta. Granted that's an entirely subjective point because our metas are most likely completely different from one another and you might not be forced to make that choice by bulls**t decks like Narset and Chulane like I am.

That being said, I feel like a lot of the stuff in here ranges wildly from "great" to "cute". In particular Altar of the Pantheon and Thunderherd Migration just stand out as really underwhelming versions of existing cards that are in here for the sake of theme. Tolsimir should probably just be Ayula frankly, outside of the initial token Tolsimir gives you and the lifegain, Ayula is basically the same thing but more flexible and 3 mana cheaper. Also I don't really see the advantage of Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off over just running Crux of Fate which also handily avoids blowing up your Dragons, on that note I'm kind of surprised to not see Dragon Tempest in here, it's one of the most devastating cards in my deck. Also I feel like Walker of Secret Ways is relatively underwhelming when you're already running Hibernation Sliver. Lastly I'm surprised not to see Valiant Changeling in your list over chaff like Skeletal Changeling, with literally any other Changeling hitting the board before it, it's a 3/3 with double strike for , which is ridiculous.

But anyways I digress, it's not my intention to sit here and pick apart your deck, and I hope you didn't take it that way, because like I said before, our metas are probably completely different, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. All in all, I love seeing another successful interpretation of this archetype, and it helps to further illustrate the point I make in the primer that you can take the principals I discuss in terms of card selection and strategy and end up with something that looks completely different from my own list, and that's part of what's so interesting about Changeling tribal as a concept.

As far as the cards you're thinking of adding in, I can't recommend Najeela or The Scarab God enough, the former is an allstar in my deck, and the latter while eventually cut for Yuriko, absolutely wrecks in this list. I wouldn't personally run Kogla for the same reason I don't run Azami, but it seems like a pretty solid beater that's on theme. I can't really speak about the last 3 because I haven't had the opportunity to playtest anything from Ikoria due to my LGS being shutdown still. That being said, I firmly think that General Kudro is going to be a sideboard card at most for me, I probably wouldn't run Dire Tactics because it's kind of just a more conditional Crib Swap, and I'm eager to test out Molten Echoes myself once I can finally get my hands on a copy.

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
But anyways I digress, it's not my intention to sit here and pick apart your deck, and I hope you didn't take it that way, because like I said before, our metas are probably completely different, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. All in all, I love seeing another successful interpretation of this archetype, and it helps to further illustrate the point I make in the primer that you can take the principals I discuss in terms of card selection and strategy and end up with something that looks completely different from my own list, and that's part of what's so interesting about Changeling tribal as a concept.
Actually, I'm specifically looking for some deck picking apart (constructively minded of coarse).
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
The first thing that jumps out to me is your mana base, you have 6 lands that only tap for colorless mana, and a total of 14 for basically anything that isn't a Changeling if you count the lands like Ally Encampment, Cavern of Souls, and Unclaimed Territory which is 17%/40% of your lands respectively. I don't even consider cards for my deck that have triple pips of a single color like Azami or Kogla and I can't even imagine trying to cast them here. Sure the mana slivers, Harabaz Druid, and rocks help in this regard, but if you don't draw into them or they get blown up I feel like you just end up dead in the water a lot of the time. Maybe I'm wrong but that's at least the impression that I get from a first glance.
The mana base isn't quite as awful as it looks. I mean, let's be real, it's really really bad. As long as I have Chromatic Lantern, Altar of the Pantheon, or Dragon's Hoard out most of the cards tend to be castable. I'm aware that the manabase is exceptionally greedy. My list is not a good list for a meta where people Wasteland your Command Tower just to color screw you. The mana base being weak is a flaw that I'm aware of and hasn't stranded enough cards in my hand that I'm willing to change it yet.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
I admire your dedication to the theme. My initial decklist was actually quite similar to this one (minus a lot of the newer cards obviously since I started about a year ago), but I eventually had to decide whether it was more important to fully commit to the theme of the deck or to add in some more generic cards like Birthing Pod and Skyshroud Claim so it could actually win games in my meta. Granted that's an entirely subjective point because our metas are most likely completely different from one another and you might not be forced to make that choice by bulls**t decks like Narset and Chulane like I am.
My experience with this list is strange. The wonky-ness of the deck makes people not apply proper threat analysis to it both because it is fun for my opponents to watch in action and because the dangerous cards often don't look overly intimidating. As a result I've found the deck can often times hang with decks that are noticeably stronger than it. While aggressively sticking to my theme has weakened the deck in card quality, it has made the deck overall much stronger solely based on how everyone I play with reacts to it.

There's a super spikey player at the store near me. He's got a Chainer, Dementia Master that is basically mono-board wipes. I can't play this against him at all because that match up is so atrociously bad. Other than that, I've had a fair amount of success. The deck is strong enough that I've accidentally utterly crushed some newer players harder than I expected. It's definitely for more of a 75% meta and not a super streamlined we can't play interesting cards because we've let powerlevel control our lives meta.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
That being said, I feel like a lot of the stuff in here ranges wildly from "great" to "cute". In particular Altar of the Pantheon and Thunderherd Migration just stand out as really underwhelming versions of existing cards that are in here for the sake of theme.
Altar of the Pantheon and Thunderherd Migration are costs of aggressively sticking on theme. As it turns out there isn't very many non-colorless mana producing, non-creature, ramp spells that have a creature type relevant textbox. Those and Dragon's Hoard are the only three that I'm aware of in the entirety of magic.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Lastly I'm surprised not to see Valiant Changeling in your list over chaff like Skeletal Changeling, with literally any other Changeling hitting the board before it, it's a 3/3 with double strike for , which is ridiculous.
This actually is a result of our differing commander choices. With The Ur-Dragon, Skeletal Changeling only costs b instead of 1b. This becomes super relevant with things like Hibernation Sliver, because I can get literally twice as many ETB triggers out of it. With Walker of Secret Ways, it costs me 3 to bounce and replay a changeling instead of 4 which adds up significantly over the game. That being said, I'm constantly considering adding Valiant Changeling, I just aren't sure what I'd cut.

Also, all the 2mana changelings cost 0 with Morophon, the Boundless on the battlefield, which opens up a lot of ton of combo potential.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Tolsimir should probably just be Ayula frankly, outside of the initial token Tolsimir gives you and the lifegain, Ayula is basically the same thing but more flexible and 3 mana cheaper.
Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves is actually a decent performer. I found I was struggling as a result of taking a fair amount of chip damage without any incidental lifegain. He helps strengthen that portion of the deck. He's removal, which I'm always looking for. He's also tutorable with Skyshroud Poacher (making him instant speed removal).

Finally, Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves, Hibernation Sliver, The Ur-Dragon, and Universal Automaton go infinite.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Also I don't really see the advantage of Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off over just running Crux of Fate which also handily avoids blowing up your Dragons, on that note I'm kind of surprised to not see Dragon Tempest in here, it's one of the most devastating cards in my deck.
Dragon Tempest isn't making the cut because I already have 4 dragon relevant cards, all of which I viewed as better. Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off is functionally the same. I used to have Widespread Brutality here, which I liked a lot more (since it is hilarious with Changeling Hero) but I kept having it get stranded in my hand due to the manabase.

I think Dragon Tempest is directly competing with Lathliss, Dragon Queen. I figured a 5/5 dragon token would be stronger than 3-5 damage on a changeling cast. Do you think that isn't a correct analysis? I'd never really considered Dragon Tempest strongly before you mentioned it. It would give The Ur-Dragon haste though... which sounds reaaaaaally nice now that I think about it. Hrrrrmmm.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Also I feel like Walker of Secret Ways is relatively underwhelming when you're already running Hibernation Sliver.
Hibernation Sliver is definitely the stronger of the cards. Walker of Secret Ways is definitely cut-able. Bouncing and replying changelings nets me such massive value that I basically want as many of that affect as possible. Your deck tends to sacrifice changelings for profit, mine tends to bounce them for profit.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
As far as the cards you're thinking of adding in, I can't recommend Najeela or The Scarab God enough, the former is an allstar in my deck, and the latter while eventually cut for Yuriko, absolutely wrecks in this list. I wouldn't personally run Kogla for the same reason I don't run Azami, but it seems like a pretty solid beater that's on theme. I can't really speak about the last 3 because I haven't had the opportunity to playtest anything from Ikoria due to my LGS being shutdown still. That being said, I firmly think that General Kudro is going to be a sideboard card at most for me, I probably wouldn't run Dire Tactics because it's kind of just a more conditional Crib Swap, and I'm eager to test out Molten Echoes myself once I can finally get my hands on a copy.
The cards I'm most strongly considering cutting are Seafloor Oracle, Seahunter, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, and Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off.

I wish there was a better merfolk card for me than Seafloor Oracle but I haven't found one that jumps out at me.

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
My experience with this list is strange. The wonky-ness of the deck makes people not apply proper threat analysis to it both because it is fun for my opponents to watch in action and because the dangerous cards often don't look overly intimidating. As a result I've found the deck can often times hang with decks that are noticeably stronger than it. While aggressively sticking to my theme has weakened the deck in card quality, it has made the deck overall much stronger solely based on how everyone I play with reacts to it.

Altar of the Pantheon and Thunderherd Migration are costs of aggressively sticking on theme. As it turns out there isn't very many non-colorless mana producing, non-creature, ramp spells that have a creature type relevant textbox. Those and Dragon's Hoard are the only three that I'm aware of in the entirety of magic.
Like I said, differences in meta lead to differences in deckbuilding so that doesn't truly surprise me, as long as it works for you that's all that matters I suppose. In the case of Thunderherd and Altar I guess beggars can't be choosers then haha.
This actually is a result of our differing commander choices. With The Ur-Dragon, Skeletal Changeling only costs b instead of 1b. This becomes super relevant with things like Hibernation Sliver, because I can get literally twice as many ETB triggers out of it. With Walker of Secret Ways, it costs me 3 to bounce and replay a changeling instead of 4 which adds up significantly over the game. That being said, I'm constantly considering adding Valiant Changeling, I just aren't sure what I'd cut.
Thats a fair point. I wasn't really considering our differences in Commanders when I was looking at your list and I suppose that's on me. Valiant Changeling is one of the few standout examples of a Changeling that's actually good on it's own merit like Taurean Mauler and Mirror Entity, but taking your list into consideration, I suppose it really is less valuable here since it doesn't benefit from Ur-Dragon's discount, and you have Sylvia Brightspear to give all your guys double strike, which is something I'm not running.
Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves is actually a decent performer. I found I was struggling as a result of taking a fair amount of chip damage without any incidental lifegain. He helps strengthen that portion of the deck. He's removal, which I'm always looking for. He's also tutorable with Skyshroud Poacher (making him instant speed removal).

Finally, Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves, Hibernation Sliver, The Ur-Dragon, and Universal Automaton go infinite.
Tolsimir isn't bad by any means, don't get me wrong, and that's an interesting combo with Hibernation Sliver, but I'm not sure if those things add up to it being better than Ayula all things considered. I'm not one to be concerned about chip damage all that much, but even if I was I feel like Altar of the Pantheon and Seraph Sanctuary should be enough to keep you alive until the game is going to end one way or another. And as far as the combo is concerned it's neat, but Ayula is also another outlet for the Champion loop, like I describe in the primer, Ayula lets you infinitely stack +1/+1 counters on all your Changelings, fight and kill every creature in play, and then alpha strike each of your opponents (assuming all their dudes aren't hexproof/indestructible at least).

And her fight trigger is just outright better than his. Thanks to the way it's worded, even if you play a diminutive Changeling like Skeletal Changeling you can have Ayula's trigger instead make that Taurean Mauler that's been sitting around getting beefy the last 3 turns fight something instead, giving it a lot more flexibility in terms of what you can kill by fighting.

Also Wolves<Bears lol.
Dragon Tempest isn't making the cut because I already have 4 dragon relevant cards, all of which I viewed as better. Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off is functionally the same. I used to have Widespread Brutality here, which I liked a lot more (since it is hilarious with Changeling Hero) but I kept having it get stranded in my hand due to the manabase.

I think Dragon Tempest is directly competing with Lathliss, Dragon Queen. I figured a 5/5 dragon token would be stronger than 3-5 damage on a changeling cast. Do you think that isn't a correct analysis? I'd never really considered Dragon Tempest strongly before you mentioned it. It would give The Ur-Dragon haste though... which sounds reaaaaaally nice now that I think about it. Hrrrrmmm.
Hard to say. I like token production in my deck for reasons I'd previously explained in earlier posts, and a 5/5 flyer is pretty good just in general. That being said, Dragon Tempest lowers your curve a tad, and acts as a win condition as well. I'd say it's absolutely worth testing out, but I can't say for sure whether it's better than Lathliss or not.
The cards I'm most strongly considering cutting are Seafloor Oracle, Seahunter, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, and Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off.

I wish there was a better merfolk card for me than Seafloor Oracle but I haven't found one that jumps out at me.
I meant to mention before that it seemed like having Skyshroud Poacher, Seahunter, Moggcatcher, AND Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero all in your deck was a little overkill. They're really good cards, but I think 4 of them is a bit much, I would recommend axing Seahunter and Moggcatcher unless you end up adding some more Merfolk or Goblins, as Lin Sivvi also lets your recycle dead Changelings, and she herself can tutor for Poacher since it's a Rebel, letting you tutor twice a turn potentially.

Now, to immediately contradict myself, if you're looking for more merfolk cards, there are two suggestions I can make: Wanderwine Prophets, which can substitute for a Changeling in the Champion loop, and gives you infinite turns with Lin Sivvi if you can guarantee it'll hit someone and have enough mana to use both of Lin's abilities to recur a Changeling to sacrifice each turn. Alternatively, Seahunter is worded in a way that it can actually tutor Merrow Commerce which in tandem with enough Changelings and something like Manaweft Sliver is basically an on-theme Wilderness Reclamation which I hear is a pretty good card.

Edit: I just realized that Wanderwine Prophets also goes infinite with Irregular Cohort and Wirewood Symbiote. Play Cohort, smack someone with Prophets, sac the token, use Symbiote to bounce Cohort back to your hand, then rinse and repeat. So he's actually even better than I initially gave credit.

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

Another day, another surprisingly relevant spoiler from M21



I'm not as immediately sold on this as I was Rin and Seri however. The only "Goblins" this thing can use the activated abilities of are Mirror Entity, Amoeboid Changeling, and Shapesharer, which is.... neat? He does go infinite with Kiki-Jiki, which makes him the 1,463,827th card to do so, sadly that's just not relevant here.

Casting "Goblins" off of the top of our deck is a nice form of pseudo card draw, but I'm not sure it's relevant enough in this deck to be a worthy tradeoff of giving away that information to our opponents. If it just said that we could look at the top of the deck and not that we had to play with it revealed I might have an entirely different opinion of this little guy. But then again, I suppose that's the whole point of being a "Conspicuous" Snoop.

All in all it's an interesting card, and could probably be pretty damn efficient in a version of this list more focused on topdeck manipulation with things like The Scarab God or Descendants' Path. But that's not exactly what I'm running here at the moment, so it's off the radar for the time being.


In other news I've submitted this thread for Primer status, and I've gotten some initial feedback. I've made a few tweaks in accordance to that, but I'll be adding a bit more meat to the early game strategy and alternate card choice discussion sections of the Primer to reflect some of the changes I've made to the list myself and some things I've discussed with other players as well. It should hopefully be done before the weekend, but my ample free time has spontaneously dried up since I've had to start going back to work so we'll see.

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

I don't think that the snoop is nearly good enough. Slamming Animal Sanctuary though.

On my end I'm wondering if should I cut Qasali Slingers for Feline Sovereign? 2 less CMC is a ton, but triggering on damage instead of ETB is way worse. :/

Maybe I just cut something else? Destroying artifacts and enchantments is pretty big game.

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
I meant to mention before that it seemed like having Skyshroud Poacher, Seahunter, Moggcatcher, AND Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero all in your deck was a little overkill. They're really good cards, but I think 4 of them is a bit much, I would recommend axing Seahunter and Moggcatcher unless you end up adding some more Merfolk or Goblins, as Lin Sivvi also lets your recycle dead Changelings, and she herself can tutor for Poacher since it's a Rebel, letting you tutor twice a turn potentially.
The reason Skyshroud poacher, Seahunter and Moggcatcher are in here is because they're extremely versatile. They find Morophon, the Boundless for 3. If I have a champion changeling on the battlefield, at the end of my opponents turn I can tutor for another one, then untap and tutor for the 3rd to go infinite. I can also respond to removal to tutor a champion changeling to protect a creature. They find Graveshifter for recursion. Skyshroud Poacher can find Priest of Titania, Tolsimir Wolfblood or Wirewood Savage while Moggcatcher can find Tuktuk Scrapper.

Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero has massively underwhelmed in comparison. She requires a much smaller mana investment per turn but hasn't ever had an impact on the board. Seafloor Oracle has been underwhelming and if it gets the cut Seahunter only finding changelings and no utility is pretty underwhelming.
DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Now, to immediately contradict myself, if you're looking for more merfolk cards, there are two suggestions I can make: Wanderwine Prophets, which can substitute for a Changeling in the Champion loop, and gives you infinite turns with Lin Sivvi if you can guarantee it'll hit someone and have enough mana to use both of Lin's abilities to recur a Changeling to sacrifice each turn. Alternatively, Seahunter is worded in a way that it can actually tutor Merrow Commerce which in tandem with enough Changelings and something like Manaweft Sliver is basically an on-theme Wilderness Reclamation which I hear is a pretty good card.

Edit: I just realized that Wanderwine Prophets also goes infinite with Irregular Cohort and Wirewood Symbiote. Play Cohort, smack someone with Prophets, sac the token, use Symbiote to bounce Cohort back to your hand, then rinse and repeat. So he's actually even better than I initially gave credit.
I considered Wanderwine Prophets, it just seems like it has a massive "kill me sign" pointed on itself. I don't really have many good ways to give it haste, so I'm worried it'd just be incredibly underwhelming without tutoring for it with Seahunter. I didn't consider that it could be a redundant piece in the champion loop though. I'll consider it some more once the rest of the spoilers finish since they're dishing out some spice.

Random note: why aren't you playing Sliver Hivelord? I think he's the best of the 5c sliver legends for this deck.

If I add Ayula, Queen Among Bears and Animal Sanctuary maybe I should give Sage of Fables a shot again.

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
I don't think that the snoop is nearly good enough. Slamming Animal Sanctuary though.

On my end I'm wondering if should I cut Qasali Slingers for Feline Sovereign? 2 less CMC is a ton, but triggering on damage instead of ETB is way worse. :/

Maybe I just cut something else? Destroying artifacts and enchantments is pretty big game.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely not going to be running Snoop myself either, I just found it an interesting option for variations of this deck that might lean more heavily into topdeck manipulation (like say a Naya variant using Atla as a commander running stuff like Descendants' Path or Sylvan Library)

That cat intrigues me as well, yes combat damage is considerably tougher to trigger than a simple ETB, but if I were to mainboard Shields of Velis Vel then it's "Cats you control have protection from Dogs" effect would make my whole board unblockable if I cast Shields on one of my opponents. Same thing applies to Hungry Lynx which I've already been reconsidering thanks to Rin & Seri and Marrow-Gnawer being things now. Shields is even recastable with Haakon so I could do it repeatedly too. The ONE thing I'm worried about with these two kitties however is that they make Shapesharer's activated ability pretty much worthless once they're in play, which is a shame because I love that card.

And yes, while ": Put a counter on a dude" is a tad underwhelming in a vacuum, Animal Sanctuary is just too cute and it only takes up a land slot so I'm definitely gonna be slapping that in. I'm already running Swarmyard pretty much purely because of theme so why not? lol
The reason Skyshroud poacher, Seahunter and Moggcatcher are in here is because they're extremely versatile. They find Morophon, the Boundless for 3. If I have a champion changeling on the battlefield, at the end of my opponents turn I can tutor for another one, then untap and tutor for the 3rd to go infinite. I can also respond to removal to tutor a champion changeling to protect a creature. They find Graveshifter for recursion. Skyshroud Poacher can find Priest of Titania, Tolsimir Wolfblood or Wirewood Savage while Moggcatcher can find Tuktuk Scrapper.

Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero has massively underwhelmed in comparison. She requires a much smaller mana investment per turn but hasn't ever had an impact on the board. Seafloor Oracle has been underwhelming and if it gets the cut Seahunter only finding changelings and no utility is pretty underwhelming.
Oh don't get me wrong, I totally get why you're running them, I just dont think you need to be running all of them. Maybe I'll come off a tad hypocritical in saying this considering how much I've let Birthing Pod warp my list (to the point that I'm heavily considering Vannifar as well just for redundancy), but I think you could probably make due with just two or even one of these guys.

I've never been particularly impressed by Lin Sivvi myself for what it's worth either. Despite how many people sing her praises I've always felt that she was too slow and too greedy for what she does. I found during playtesting early on that I usually would rather spend my mana on dumping my hand each turn instead of using her abilities.
I considered Wanderwine Prophets, it just seems like it has a massive "kill me sign" pointed on itself. I don't really have many good ways to give it haste, so I'm worried it'd just be incredibly underwhelming without tutoring for it with Seahunter. I didn't consider that it could be a redundant piece in the champion loop though. I'll consider it some more once the rest of the spoilers finish since they're dishing out some spice.

Random note: why aren't you playing Sliver Hivelord? I think he's the best of the 5c sliver legends for this deck.

If I add Ayula, Queen Among Bears and Animal Sanctuary maybe I should give Sage of Fables a shot again.
Prophets is definitely a "kill on sight" card, but I feel like a lot of the better lords in this deck are once you play with people enough that they kind of know what your deck is actually doing. I mean, things like Reaper King and The First Sliver fall into that category too (though they're definitely better because you almost always get immediate value from them). You could always slot in a Merfolk Sovereign alongside it to guarantee it connects.

I'm not running Hivelord for a similar reason to what you've said about your own deck: I'm already running The First Sliver, Sliver Overlord, Manaweft Sliver, Gemhide Sliver, Cloudshredder Sliver, and Sliver Hive, and I really dont want that many cards of a single tribe in the deck because that's kind of antithetical to the whole point of it. Besides, I've got Knight Exemplar which also adds another anthem effect and can be tutored alongside Haakon with Buried Alive (something I do quite frequently actually).

If you wanna be a huge dick you could always opt for Oona's Blackguard instead of Sage of Fables.

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago



Now THIS is what I'm talking about! This card is just so beautiful....

to trigger Reaper King/Unesh/Risen Reef at instant speed, reset Morophon's creature type, or just dodge spot removal is just utterly fantastic.

It also provides another way to potentially go infinite with Wirewood Symbiote and either Harabaz Druid or Faeburrow Elder provided you can generate more mana than it costs to recast the Changeling you bounce and use Emiel's ability to blink Symbiote (which is definitely not as hard as it sounds).

It's counter generating ability is nothing to be sneezed at either, helps the deck play aggro in matchups where that becomes relevant even easier, and I imagine that between putting +1/+1 counters on things and her fight trigger Emiel and Ayula are going to be best friends.

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
Emiel the Blessed

It's counter generating ability is nothing to be sneezed at either, helps the deck play aggro in matchups where that becomes relevant even easier, and I imagine that between putting +1/+1 counters on things and her fight trigger Emiel and Ayula are going to be best friends.
I'm way less sold on this card than you are. It does effectively the same thing as Walker of Secret Ways does for me, but it costs 2WW instead of 1U. I find that I don't have an overabundance of mana sitting around with this deck so adding an extra G/W onto every changeling ETB sounds painful.

Now I have this annoying
Lathliss, Dragon Queen vs Sethron, Hurloon General vs Rin and Seri, Inseparable vs Dragon Tempest to ponder.
Lathliss, Dragon Queen makes the best tokens, has the best body but the worst activated ability.
Sethron, Hurloon General makes ok token and on ETB. It has a really good activated ability.
Rin and Seri, Inseparable makes the worst tokens (and only on cast), but has the best activated ability and is 1 mana cheaper. Hrrrrmm.


Maybe I'll cut Khorvath Brightflame and Sylvia Brightspear. A lot of what Khorvath did was find Sylvia to let The Ur-Dragon with a +1/+1 buff one-shot people. Dragon Tempest gives The Ur-Dragon the same 2 turn clock (since he always had summoning sickness). What to add though, there's so much spice in these past few sets.

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
I'm way less sold on this card than you are. It does effectively the same thing as Walker of Secret Ways does for me, but it costs 2WW instead of 1U. I find that I don't have an overabundance of mana sitting around with this deck so adding an extra G/W onto every changeling ETB sounds painful.
See, this could yet again just boil down to the difference in our commander choices, but I find that by mid game I'm usually spending next to nothing on my Changelings in terms of mana, since it's usually a priority for me to dig up Morophon+Jodah or Rooftop+Adaptation so dropping an extra G/W to make them all +2/+2 (or +4/+4 in tandem with Ayula) is just sick, and counters in general are great because they work through Mirror Entity activations.

But that's ultimately small potatoes, the real meat of Emiel is that blink ability. I don't think comparing it to Walker really works out in Walker's favor tbh. Sure the card is cheaper up front, and the bounce costs less, but you still need to get the Changeling back into play, which if you're using something like Didgeridoo then it's ultimately costing you 4U to do what Emiel does for without the extra steps/cards. I'm actually thinking that Emiel might be what finally causes me to cut Didgeridoo.
Lathliss vs Sethron vs Rin+Seri
See Sethron's activated ability is what kills him for me in this scenario, as you noted Rin+Seri's activated ability is almost strictly better, but while it's being on cast vs ETB is a point in Sethron's favor, R+S only give you 1 toughness less split across two bodies, which is crazy valuable for triggering OTHER ETB effects like Kindred Discovery or counting bodies for things like Shared Animosity or Kindred Summons. I would be a lot more excited for Sethron if they hadn't JUST spoiled R+S, as it is, for me it's no contest
Maybe I'll cut Khorvath Brightflame and Sylvia Brightspear. A lot of what Khorvath did was find Sylvia to let The Ur-Dragon with a +1/+1 buff one-shot people. Dragon Tempest gives The Ur-Dragon the same 2 turn clock (since he always had summoning sickness). What to add though, there's so much spice in these past few sets.
Cutting Khorvath and Sylvia was really painful for me, but once Modern Horizons spoiled Cloudshredder Sliver I just knew it had to happen. They're not bad by any means, and thematically they're a home run, but it's really hard to justify taking up two slots in an already tight deck list for their effect.

WHEW. I've been trying to get this reply typed out for like 3 days now lol. Going from working 0 hours to working 50 has given me some serious whiplash, hopefully I can finish my last couple of notes revisions to the primer sometime this week, and I placed an order on Card Kingdom that should hopefully arrive soon, so I'll be testing some more stuff and have more to say about it after that.

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

DrKillenger wrote:
3 years ago
See, this could yet again just boil down to the difference in our commander choices, but I find that by mid game I'm usually spending next to nothing on my Changelings in terms of mana, since it's usually a priority for me to dig up Morophon+Jodah or Rooftop+Adaptation so dropping an extra G/W to make them all +2/+2 (or +4/+4 in tandem with Ayula) is just sick, and counters in general are great because they work through Mirror Entity activations.

But that's ultimately small potatoes, the real meat of Emiel is that blink ability. I don't think comparing it to Walker really works out in Walker's favor tbh. Sure the card is cheaper up front, and the bounce costs less, but you still need to get the Changeling back into play, which if you're using something like Didgeridoo then it's ultimately costing you 4U to do what Emiel does for without the extra steps/cards. I'm actually thinking that Emiel might be what finally causes me to cut Didgeridoo.
I'm running 7 changelings that cost 1 so Walker of Secret Ways has a way better ceiling for me. If I have Changeling Outcast. I can attack, ninjutsu in Walker of Secret Ways, Then recast Changeling Outcast, bounce it, recast it for 2UUBB. Plus I get the very non-zero upside of seeing my opponent's hand.

That's two changeling cast triggers plus seeing an opponents hand for 2UUBB versus Emiel the Blessed's one changeling ETB trigger for 5WW

If you're using Morophon, the Boundless + Jodah, Archmage Eternal or Rooftop storm then Walker of Secret Ways pulls even farther ahead with a changeling trigger only costing 1U instead of 3. That's a pretty huge difference of 3 changeling triggers vs 2 triggers at 6 or 4 changeling triggers vs 2 triggers and 4 +1/+1 counters at 8.

Walker of Secret Ways obviously has a much lower floor, being a 1/2 not a 4/4. If I can't ninjutsu it in it's basically on par with a Emiel the Blessed costing 3UU to just bounce something and then needing to hardcast that (so it's worse with the champion changelings). It's only active on my turn, so it can't be re-actively used to protect things against removal. It is also much more U reliant. Emiel the Blessed can also flicker non-unicorns.

... she can flicker non-unicorns too. I wasn't paying attention to that. I've 6 really strong non-changeling ETB creatures. I think I do need to slot her in. lol crap more cuts.



Swaps I'm thinking of making...

Khorvath BrightflameMolten Echoes - I always found I was casting Khorvath mostly to just tutor for Sylvia. With her gone, no need for him.
Sylvia BrightspearDragon Tempest - Similar role with The Ur-Dragon but more removal upside and combo potential
Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast OffAyula, Queen Among Bears - Lower the curve, and but maintain removal suite.
Lin Sivvi, Defiant HeroEmiel the Blessed - Similar role, Emiel has more combo potential and upside. Also a thicker body which can be helpful
Seafloor OracleFeline Sovereign I found Seafloor to be underwhelming and this keeps me removal neutral with Harmonic Sliver getting gone.
Harmonic SliverSliver Hivelord I found accidentally blowing my stuff up with Harmonic sliver to be annoying. Harmonic sliver also eats a ton of removal. More anti-wrath potential is super helpful.

Not sure about.
Unnatural SelectionArcane Adaptation
Selection is better with Felidar Sovereign, Endemic Plague, and Peer Pressure. However, while it's worse than Arcane Adaptation with most of my cards, it is way less of a one-shot ability and can is less susceptible to being blown out by removal.

I wonder if I should cut Azami, Lady of Scrolls for Sage of Fables or Sigil Tracer.
I also don't know what to cut for Animal Sanctuary. Maybe Elvish Archdruid?
I'm also pondering cutting Patriarch's Bidding, because while it is hilarious there's a lot more dedicated graveyard decks than us that tend to get tons of value out of it.

I still really really want to own an Elephant Graveyard

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Post by DrKillenger » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
I'm running 7 changelings that cost 1 so Walker of Secret Ways has a way better ceiling for me. If I have Changeling Outcast. I can attack, ninjutsu in Walker of Secret Ways, Then recast Changeling Outcast, bounce it, recast it for 2UUBB. Plus I get the very non-zero upside of seeing my opponent's hand.

That's two changeling cast triggers plus seeing an opponents hand for 2UUBB versus Emiel the Blessed's one changeling ETB trigger for 5WW
I should note that in discussing Emiel v Walker, I meant to mention in my previous post the value of Emiel's ability working at instant speed is a big reason why I prefer her. I also just like that it's more compact, getting cast triggers is nice, but getting the whole effect of LTB+ETB for one activation is great, it means that she functions independently and doesn't need other cards to make her good. Also blinking Morophon himself is a HUGE deal, getting to reset his chosen type and potentially having him come in as a 9/9.
Khorvath BrightflameMolten Echoes - I always found I was casting Khorvath mostly to just tutor for Sylvia. With her gone, no need for him.
Sylvia BrightspearDragon Tempest - Similar role with The Ur-Dragon but more removal upside and combo potential
Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast OffAyula, Queen Among Bears - Lower the curve, and but maintain removal suite.
Lin Sivvi, Defiant HeroEmiel the Blessed - Similar role, Emiel has more combo potential and upside. Also a thicker body which can be helpful
Seafloor OracleFeline Sovereign I found Seafloor to be underwhelming and this keeps me removal neutral with Harmonic Sliver getting gone.
Harmonic SliverSliver Hivelord I found accidentally blowing my stuff up with Harmonic sliver to be annoying. Harmonic sliver also eats a ton of removal. More anti-wrath potential is super helpful.

Not sure about.
Unnatural SelectionArcane Adaptation
Selection is better with Felidar Sovereign, Endemic Plague, and Peer Pressure. However, while it's worse than Arcane Adaptation with most of my cards, it is way less of a one-shot ability and can is less susceptible to being blown out by removal.

I wonder if I should cut Azami, Lady of Scrolls for Sage of Fables or Sigil Tracer.
I also don't know what to cut for Animal Sanctuary. Maybe Elvish Archdruid?
I'm also pondering cutting Patriarch's Bidding, because while it is hilarious there's a lot more dedicated graveyard decks than us that tend to get tons of value out of it.
Molten Echoes is actually one of the cards I just ordered, I'm going to be testing it and Prime Speaker Vannifar the next chance I have to play. On that note, those two actually have some disgusting synergy, doubly so if you get a Champion involved. Molten Echoes also acts as yet another redundant combo piece for the Champion loop too, which is really nice.

Sigil Tracer is actually a pretty neat idea, I don't run a TON of Instants/Sorceries in the deck, but copying a Kindred Summons or Notorious Throng would be incredibly gross. Copying your opponen't stuff is great too, but then it becomes more matchup dependent. If you're adding Ayula and Emiel you should have no shortage of +1/+1 counters on things though, so Sage of Fables seems pretty solid.

I actually might be finally getting my hands on a Patriarch's Bidding of my own. A buddy of mine has a copy in his Grimgrin zombie tribal deck, and I think I've finally got a tempting enough offer to trade him for it now that I have a Scarab God just laying around. I'm actually not all that worried about other reanimator decks because unless they're vampires or zombies they probably won't get as much mileage out of it as I will, but as you've noted before, my deck is much more graveyard oriented than yours to begin with. If I'm pleased enough with Bidding I might actually try to fit in Scion of the Ur-Dragon as well.

I like the precision of Unnatural Selection, but frankly I think it just pales in comparison to Arcane Adaptation.
I still really really want to own an Elephant Graveyard
I KNOOOOOOOOOOW. Why does that card have to be so damn expensive while stupid Griffin Canyon is like, a buck?

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Hoooooooooow has this thread existed for three months and I've somehow missed it? I love it. I've been in the market for a 5-color deck idea for a while now, and the closest I've gotten to is a sweet Niv-Mizzet Reborn list on these boards or a General Tazri / hidden Zada, Hedron Grinder deck. Changeling tribal tho. . . Mmmmm!

I have some initial thoughts and I'd love your input:

- If I were to build a version of this deck, a significant percentage of it would have to start out budget friendly. I think that's not going to be a huge issue though given the absurd number of potential cards to run here. I think the big questions with regard to budget are the manabase and the commander. A budget 5-color manabase is what it is: not great, but I'll live. The commander, however, could conceivably be General Tazri, Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Karona, False God (maybe?), or Reaper King on a budget. I'm leaning toward Tazri because Rally seems like a great triggered ability for the deck, there are some very powerful ally mana/card advantage/wincon engines, and tutoring up Mirror Entity is powerful for all the reasons you noted in the primer. That said, Reaper King and Scion could be shenanigans too.

- I run a nonsense beast tribal Kraum, Ludevic's Opus // Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder list that features the Changeling Berserker / Changeling Hero loop with the third piece being either Molten Echoes or Lumbering Battlement. I 100% recommend Echoes if you haven't decided to include it already, and Battlement could be good here too just because of the ETB trigger nonsense it enables (if one includes a reasonable number of sac outlets) in addition to the added combo density for the Champion loop.

- I don't recall seeing Depala, Pilot Exemplar discussed anywhere in the primer and I was wondering if you had ever considered her. A double anthem for Mirror Entity (I'm assuming "vehicle" would count as a creature type, but I might just be wrong about that) and a mana sink that draws cards seems good. Even if I'm wrong about her, there's several good lords that could go in the deck on a budget for the Mirror Entity gameplan on top of some you already have in your list (here mostly for my future reference):

The shame of it is that Knight Exemplar and Timber Protector are effects that can't really be had on a budget with the nearest one I could find being Pack Leader.

Anywho, great deck, great primer. I lol'ed multiple times. Good show.
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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
Hoooooooooow has this thread existed for three months and I've somehow missed it? I love it. I've been in the market for a 5-color deck idea for a while now, and the closest I've gotten to is a sweet Niv-Mizzet Reborn list on these boards or a General Tazri / hidden Zada, Hedron Grinder deck. Changeling tribal tho. . . Mmmmm!
There's actually 3 of these threads. Mine and another.
viewtopic.php?t=671
viewtopic.php?p=6305
There's a surprising difference in all the decklists.

I'm on my phone so I can't be as eloquent as I like. I'll give you a full response later. A quick response is that lords are pretty bad. Giving a changeling +1/+1 with a minor upside doesn't really do anything. Making your 2/2s into 3/3 is immensely unimpressive. You need your lords to be doing relevant things on their own even if you have no changelings on the battlefield.. You want Elvish Archdruid not Stromkirk Captain.

As for a general I'd recommend Reaper King of those you mentioned. Morophon, the Boundless is one of the best cards in the deck though so I'd imagine you'd want to pick one up relatively early in the deck's life. I personally think The Ur-Dragon is best. Your general will greatly influence your deck construction here even though the theme is identical.

For my own information. When you say "budget" what exactly do you mean. Only cards under $10? A total deck price of <$100/$200? This would be helpful just so I know what kind of things to recommend.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
A quick response is that lords are pretty bad. Giving a changeling +1/+1 with a minor upside doesn't really do anything. Making your 2/2s into 3/3 is immensely unimpressive. You need your lords to be doing relevant things on their own even if you have no changelings on the battlefield.. You want Elvish Archdruid not Stromkirk Captain.
My focus on lords is specifically because General Tazri could fetch Mirror Entity. Once it's out I can activate for x=0 with something like Drogskol Captain to give the team hexproof in response to removal or Goblin Chieftain to give the team haste, which is fine if you have a multitude of anthems in play. Some of the ones I listed aren't great, to be sure, but if I'm starting off budget the point would be to just get the anthem plus an extra ability - first strike in Stromkirk Captain's case. The gameplan then would be to activate Mirror Entity for much more than 0 after blockers are declared. TBH, if I go with Tazri I will be focusing much more on allies and rally than anything. I haven't ruled Reaper King out though.
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
For my own information. When you say "budget" what exactly do you mean. Only cards under $10? A total deck price of <$100/$200? This would be helpful just so I know what kind of things to recommend.
Budget in this case means stuff I already own + cards with ~$2 top end for the near future, just to get a functional deck in sleeves and then worry about upgrading as time goes on. Some of the juicier stuff is on the short list too since I have other decks that want them: for example Kindred Discovery, Urza's Incubator, and Herald's Horn. I'll post a list as a starting point sometime soon.

EDIT: Alrighty, here's how I think I would approach a budget Tazri changeling list for a start. It definitely takes its own path and rather than being a tribe tribal deck it's more of a Changeling Allies deck focused on ETBs and abusing Rally. At the same time, I've kept a few of what I felt where the stronger ways to leverage changelings. TBH, allies ended up not working well with Mirror Entity IMO beyond dumping a bunch of Harabaz Druid mana into it for a big pump effect since there aren't any anthem lords worth mentioning. I absolutely kept Risen Reef for the ramp/draw, Atla Palani, Nest Tender for the board state resiliency and ETB nonsense, Ayula, Queen Among Bears for the ETB loops with the champions, Silumgar, the Drifting Death for the one sided board wipe, and Arcane Adaptation to make them all better. I still think Peer Pressure is good enough even though I'm heavily focused on one tribe. I could see it stealing me lots of humans, or even just a single big nasty if I have two or more changelings out. Would love to hear what y'all think, and I'll probably theorycraft a Reaper King list sometime soon as well then choose between the two.
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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

That looks like an ally deck with a small changeling package and honestly, I feel like your deck would probably just be better if you slim down the number of changelings and changeling synergy cards for more straight ally stuff. You're only running 9 non-ally pay-off cards and most of them would work just as well if the only changeling in your deck was Mirror Entity.

Whelming Wave, Peer Pressure, Atla Palani, Nest Tender and Silumgar, the Drifting Death only need Mirror Entity to have a huge impact.

You also have Dragon's Hoard and Risen Reef which will be fine if you cast even one changeling with them.

This means you're running a handful of bad changelings basically only for Ayula, Queen Among Bears, Rooftop Storm, and Dragon Tempest.

If you cut those three cards then you can cut some of the more garbage changelings that don't really do anything for you. Avian Changeling can be Umara Raptor. Universal Automaton can be Hada Freeblade. Amoeboid Changeling can be Agadeem Occultist. That kind of stuff. Obviously some changelings are good enough on their own to be run (I'm looking at you Irregular Cohort) but a lot of the medium ones could easily be cut for something else. That being said if you're not getting a ton of value out of their multiple creature types a lot of changelings are just plain bad.

The main problem I see with your deck is that you have a critical mass of ally stuff but barely anything that really shines with changelings. If you start shaving Ally stuff you're going to hit a point of not enough changeling stuff or ally stuff. If we scrap a ton of the ally stuff to hit the critical mass of changeling support then we're scrapping the vast majority of your deck.
MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

Hmm... I have mixed feelings.
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
You're only running 9 non-ally pay-off cards and most of them would work just as well if the only changeling in your deck was Mirror Entity.

Whelming Wave, Peer Pressure, Atla Palani, Nest Tender and Silumgar, the Drifting Death only need Mirror Entity to have a huge impact.
This is your best point by far, and I hadn't thought of it that way. Tazri tutoring up Mirror Entity would be big game for any of these, as would Arcane Adaptation. I suppose Adaptation could always name Ally so I could use Tazri to tutor up Silumgar/Atla as well, but that's not ideal.
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
You also have Dragon's Hoard and Risen Reef which will be fine if you cast even one changeling with them.
I'm not sure about that. I'd end up with just a slightly better Commander's Sphere and Coiling Oracle. Not bad, but not great either. I suppose if I keep Arcane Adaptation and the better changelings and add in Mirror Entity they could still be worthwhile.
materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
This means you're running a handful of bad changelings basically only for Ayula, Queen Among Bears, Rooftop Storm, and Dragon Tempest.
I could see this either way TBH. Ayula + the three champions (which Tazri can fetch) wins. Rooftop Storm doesn't care about the quality of the changeling, and all I care about is storming out stuff that triggers Halimar Excavator, Tuktuk Scrapper, or some such. Dragon Tempest plus even crappy changelings and Hagra Diabolist, or Kalastria Healer, or similar can win. All three of them do sweet things with Arcane Adaptation as well.

That said, you might be right that driving changeling density up for so few payoffs is a bad choice. I'm not sure that 9 non-ally payoffs is too few though, especially since the changelings trigger my ally payoffs as well. Sure, there are more allies to stuff in the deck over some of the worse changelings, but the quality of allies starts to drop off big time. Like, I think Agadeem Occultist is the only one you mentioned that I'd feel good about running, and I don't recall many others that looked anywhere near tempting. Kazuul Warlord, Murasa Pyromancer, and Munda, Ambush Leader maybe? Gotta watch the curve though.

I'll take another look at it and toy around with cutting the lesser changelings and adding more flicker/protection or allies.

I'm still not sold on Tazri though and I want to do a good long brew with Reaper King because I was initially drawn to the idea of changeling tribal, not ally tribal with some changeling support (though, admittedly both are sweet).

EDIT: After a little bit of thought, I think I would take your advice and move out Ayula, Queen Among Bears, Rooftop Storm, Dragon Tempest and some of the iffier changelings to add in Mirror Entity, Artificial Evolution, Panharmonicon, Unnatural Selection, Shields of Velis Vel and a couple more changeling/Arcane Adaptation payoffs like Crux of Fate, Wirewood Symbiote, Reaper King, or maybe even Azami, Lady of Scrolls. I'm just really digging the idea of Arcane Adaptation and Artificial Evolution with General Tazri and having a creature ETB toolbox deck.

EDIT #2: Here's where I land after some tweaking
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I'll still do a deep dive of a Reaper King build, but as I mull it over I can't help but suspect that Vindicate tribal might be a bit too cutthroat for my meta.
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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
3 years ago
EDIT: After a little bit of thought, I think I would take your advice and move out Ayula, Queen Among Bears, Rooftop Storm, Dragon Tempest and some of the iffier changelings to add in Mirror Entity, Artificial Evolution, Panharmonicon, Unnatural Selection, Shields of Velis Vel and a couple more changeling/Arcane Adaptation payoffs like Crux of Fate, Wirewood Symbiote, Reaper King, or maybe even Azami, Lady of Scrolls. I'm just really digging the idea of Arcane Adaptation and Artificial Evolution with General Tazri and having a creature ETB toolbox deck.
If you're going more of an ETB route I really really don't think you should have cut Risen Reef. It's good with changelings, but also Panharmonicon, your clones and all your blink effects. Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign is also similarly absurd. It's a 6 drop but it draws so much while making your changelings less expensive.

I don't see how you're going to get Haakon, Stromgald Scourge into the graveyard. @DrKillenger uses Birthing Pod and Fauna Shaman. You have none of those synergies.

Similarly I doubt that Faces of the Past will do much for you he has a ton of sacrifice affects and various things to go infinite with it.

I don't think that Halimar Excavator, Kabira Evangel or Ondu Champion do much of anything. I highly doubt you'll have enough allies to actually mill anyone out while having no graveyard synergy of your own. Sorcery speed protection might be ok? You really want some flash allies for it to be good. Trample seems similarly rarely needed. I guess if you're popping off with Mirror Entity? These three might be better as just less expensive changelings, if the only benefit you see from them in their ally creature type.

I might consider Seahunter since it can find you Sea Gate Loremaster or various changelings.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 3 years ago

materpillar wrote:
3 years ago
If you're going more of an ETB route I really really don't think you should have cut Risen Reef. It's good with changelings, but also Panharmonicon, your clones and all your blink effects. Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign is also similarly absurd. It's a 6 drop but it draws so much while making your changelings less expensive.
Whoops. Reef was supposed to stay. I must have meant to move it to the ramp section and only went halfway. Will fix. Still on the fence about Unesh. Edit: actually Unesh gives me a third way to bin Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. Interesting.
I don't see how you're going to get Haakon, Stromgald Scourge into the graveyard. @DrKillenger uses Birthing Pod and Fauna Shaman. You have none of those synergies.
Halimar Excavator and Bala Ged Thief with a tutor in the command zone :cool:
Similarly I doubt that Faces of the Past will do much for you he has a ton of sacrifice affects and various things to go infinite with it.
General Kudro of Drannith + Harabaz Druid or Manaweft Sliver was the thought here. Ultimately I would want to set up Haakon, Stromgald Scourge + Nameless Inversion and a dork. It's just generically good too imo.
I don't think that Halimar Excavator, Kabira Evangel or Ondu Champion do much of anything. I highly doubt you'll have enough allies to actually mill anyone out while having no graveyard synergy of your own. Sorcery speed protection might be ok? You really want some flash allies for it to be good. Trample seems similarly rarely needed. I guess if you're popping off with Mirror Entity? These three might be better as just less expensive changelings, if the only benefit you see from them in their ally creature type.
The first mills me for Haakon, or wins with the champion changeling loop. The other two punch through damage, but combat might just not be the droid this deck is looking for.
I might consider Seahunter since it can find you Sea Gate Loremaster or various changelings.
Hmmm... Could be useful, but if I'm rolling with General Tazri and ways to blink her it's perhaps unnecessary?

Edit again:

OUT: Ondu Champion, Kabira Evangel, Shared Animosity, 1 Plains

IN: Risen Reef, Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign, Universal Automaton, Riptide Laboratory
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Post by Raga » 3 years ago

Hey folks, so have been messing with a very similar list to the one here (and have shamelessly taken some great ideas from it too!) - one addition I am making since Double Masters is to add a Scarab God - since he will trigger from our changelings, gives us some recursion but also lets us steal anything Reaper King blows up.

Thoughts?

And here is the list, though it's not that far removed :o)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3208363#paper

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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

Raga wrote:
3 years ago
Hey folks, so have been messing with a very similar list to the one here (and have shamelessly taken some great ideas from it too!) - one addition I am making since Double Masters is to add a Scarab God - since he will trigger from our changelings, gives us some recursion but also lets us steal anything Reaper King blows up.

Thoughts?

And here is the list, though it's not that far removed :o)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3208363#paper
I actually just picked up a The Scarab God for my changeling deck. I'll be giving it a test myself whenever I can. Dirk said this earlier.
Dirk wrote:As far as the cards you're thinking of adding in, I can't recommend Najeela or The Scarab God enough, the former is an allstar in my deck, and the latter while eventually cut for Yuriko, absolutely wrecks in this list.


As for your deck, I'm highly skeptical that Harsh Mercy will do anything other than be extremely cute. I think it's just way worse than Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off. Other than that it seems pretty normal. I'd recommend slotting in Spit Flame, Wirewood Symbiote, and Contested Cliffs. I'd probably cut Harsh Mercy and Call to the Kindred.

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Post by shifthappen1 » 3 years ago

What a great deck! its fun to see both the difference in commander (The Ur Dragon vs Morophon) but also the difference in approach, bouncing vs sacrificing for value.

Were there any recent updates on the list? Commander legend didn't look like it had any new card worthy of consideration, but I'm likely to be wrong.

Would Fist of Suns be worth considering in addition to Jodah? Its less tutorable due to not being a creature, but its less prone to dying.

How about Grim Captain's Call , or March from the Tomb for some recursion since you'll be throwing a lot of cards to the bin with fauna shaman and birthing pod?

Were Admiral Beckett Brass , Captivating Vampire , Pheres-Band Warchief, Coercive Recruiter and Dryad of the Ilysian Grove ever tested in your list? did they perform somewhat well, or, why were they not tried if you didnt think them worthy?

Coercive recruiter feels great with the fact you can sac the stolen stuff for value as well.

Posted a similar thing in masterpillar's thread.

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plaganegra
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Post by plaganegra » 2 years ago

Just wanted to say thank you for this primer, Not sure why no updates in a while - tons of cards for this deck have been printed in the last year, even some game changers like maskwood nexus and the world tree to name a couple. Anyway, I am looking to build such a deck and your primer is one of the most well written, helpful, and entertaining I have read!
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