Haldan and Pako: Man's Best Friend

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Haldan and Pako: Man's Best Friend





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Introduction

Man's best friend: strong, fearless, always dependable,

This deck is a very simple two-step process: Pako fetches good things, and Haldan uses them. Pako gets bigger in the process, and Haldan plays more lands to recast Pako if someone tries to mess with him.
The deck is focused entirely on getting these two out and stealing resources to use against the opponents. Green offers cheap and effective ramp options to get Pako out a turn or two early, and blue offers cantrips that smooth out your draws. Red offers additional ways to steal resources from your opponents, plus extra removal options that traditional Simic decks don't have.
One of the coolest parts about this deck is the ability to turn simple removal spells into game-breaking steal-effects. Cards like Temporal Spring and Expel from Orazca can permanently exile a problem card, or take it and recast it on our side. Traditional cantrips like Ponder and Preordain become even more valuable when you can permanently store away key spells to use later.


Unfortunately, the biggest drawback with Haldan/Pako is the inability to fetch up creatures. Nothing feels worse than exiling a key creature from your deck that you can't get back. Therefore, I've tried to limit the creature spells wherever possible, in favor of non-creature alternatives. However, some creature spells have no equal in non-creature formats, or the non-creature alternatives are enough worse that the risk is worth it.


Why play Fetch?
You might like to play fetch if:
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  • You love ramping like crazy.
  • You prefer non-creature spells to creatures.
  • You enjoy the variance of winning with whatever your opponents happen to have in their decks.
  • You want to steal all the things for yourself.
  • You're a heckin' good boy!



So, if any of that sounds like fun to you, then please keep scrolling!
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Commander Analysis

Haldan
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Haldan, Avid Arcanist is not a particularly strong commander in terms of raw power level. He's only 1/4, with no evasion or protection or activated ability to speak of. His main purpose is to sit on the board, subtle and unassuming, and provide you with a second hand of cards.

Haldan is relatively cheap to cast at only . As such, he can come down in the mid-to-late game and still leave enough mana left over to cast one or two of the spells that his best friend Pako has brought him. The single mana symbol means he doesn't require a ton of fixing in a three-color deck.
Pako
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Pako is a good boy. A very good boy. He might be the best boy ever. Because he's green, the odds are good that he will come down earlier than turn 5, but it's still fine if he just shows up on time. He's a growing boy. He grows up soooooo fast. The built-in haste means he will start doing work right away. In a typical four-player pod, he will grow up to be a 6/6 attacker on the first swing.

The one downside of Pako is that he lacks any sort of evasion or protection. You have to carefully pick out the right person to attack each time. Granted, he triggers on attack and not on combat damage (like a good boy!), so you don't really have to worry about whether or not he actually connects with your opponent's face. But, eventually that can become a way to win the game.




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Deck History

How I built this deck, and the decisions I made along the way.
A tale of friendship
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When I first saw these two, I thought about how cool it would be to add in all the extra combat step spells and attack over and over again until my opponents were dead. So, I dug through my binders for copies of Relentless Assault and Seize the Day and Fury of the Horde and stuffed them into sleeves. Then, I thought about giving Pako that critical evasion that he seemed to want, so in went Surrak Dragonclaw. Then, on my first goldfish, I flipped over one of my own creatures, and it just felt bad. Not quite bad enough to go the way of Old Yeller, but it wasn't right.
I goldfished a few more games, and eventually brought out a proxied-up deck online. The extra-combat stuff never really came up, as Pako always brought more goodies than I could handle. One thing I definitely overlooked at first was that you can play stolen lands, and every deck in the format is at least one-third lands. Unfortunately, the only non-creature ways to play more lands per turn were Exploration and Explore, so I had to make the concession to run a few creature-based ways to do this as well. I also noticed that playing with two hands full of cards meant that my regular hand was almost always full, so I didn't need extra combats to get me extra extra cards.



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Deck Philosophy

Take this with a grain of salt: these commanders are still brand-new, so much so that as of this writing, I still don't own physical copies of either of them. However, a few things are starting to become more concrete as more games are played.
Pako
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The deck usually wants to jam Pako as early as possible to start gaining resources. Even if you can't use those resources right away, just having them stored in a safe place is a really nice feeling. Early on, it doesn't really matter if Pako can actually damage your opponent: you just want to start stealing cards. If he gets chumped, fine. You can always swing again later. The best early targets for Pako to attack are the guys who have that early Sakura-Tribe Elder or Solemn Simulacrum. They get to cash in their guy, and you get to "draw" 2-3 cards for later.
Haldan
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Once you have something you want to play with, or if you run out of lands in your main hand, you can run out Haldan and use the things your good boy gave you. Make sure you DON'T play your land for turn if you want to cast Haldan: you will almost always have extra lands to play once he resolves, and you can save that land in your hand for if/when he isn't around.
Counters and protection
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Going forward, I definitely prefer cheap counters to more proactive methods of protecting my guys (Lightning Greaves, etc). Counters are usually more flexible at being able to answer a wider range of responses, or just deal with other threats.

Despite having all the best fixing options available, this is still a three-color deck, so I'm going to stick to single-pip counters over doubles for now.,

Whispersilk Cloak checks an extra box of making Pako unblockable, so if I was going to play one of these, I'd start there.
Extra combats
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I'm not interested in playing any Time Warps right now.
I tried a few of the extra combat spells for a bit, but they weren't very impressive. Aggravated Assault and Seize the Day are hanging around because they can be used more than once, but even those aren't exciting.
Extra lands
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Ironically, this is the one place where I greatly favor creatures over non-creatures. Explore and Growth Spiral were very disappointing, but Oracle of Mul Daya and its bretheren have been excellent every time.




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Haldan and Pako: Man's Best Friend
Approximate Total Cost:




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Card Choice Discussion

A few notes on some cards I'm currently running
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When I was first putting this list together, I noticed a lot of cards fit the narrative of "oh, here's a thing I wanted to play in so many previous decks, but never could quite fit in, but here it works perfectly".
- Dryad of the Ilysian Grove: One of the few creatures that is currently too good to pass up. Fixes and plays extra lands, and a reasonable body for the cost.
- Wayward Swordtooth: This is the line in the sand that I've currently drawn on creatures that are worth the cut. This guy is cheap enough and does what I need him to do, and if I happen to get unlucky and exile him with Pako, oh well.
- Mina and Denn, Wildborn: Extra land drops are valuable enough to include this, and the other ability isn't too bad, either.
- Oracle of Mul Daya: Needs no introduction. Auto-include in every green deck I've ever made.
- Etali, Primal Storm: Pako's distant cousin who doesn't have haste, but makes up for it by being able to cast his stolen goodies for free.

- Domri, Anarch of Bolas: Everything that this version of Domri does fits with the general strategy. Pako is pretty good at fighting, and Domri can help accelerate into Pako and make sure he resolves. The passive +1/+0 isn't much, but it's still fine.
- Saheeli, Sublime Artificer: This comes in just behind Shark Typhoon. It's cheaper to cast, but more vulnerable to attack and makes smaller bodies.
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor: I've had super-Jace forever, but he was always just a "goodstuff" card in all my other blue decks. This feels like the best fit for him. 99% of the time I'll just Brainstorm, but having the random bounce or fateseal in a pinch is extra upside.

- Shadowspear: My favorite card from new Theros. Dirt cheap to cast, reasonable equip cost, two relevant abilities that all large creatures want, and a random bit of upside with the "hidden ability".
- Key to the City: The more I think about this, the less sure I am that it deserves a spot. Both abilities are fine...the cost of discarding an extra card to make Pako unblockable is minimal, but paying two mana to draw a card in a blue deck is pretty crappy, and Pako doesn't always care if he gets blocked.
- Strionic Resonator: The poster child for cards that fit just right here and nowhere else. Extra Pako trigers are extra good. Also works with Bear Umbra, Sunbird's Invocation, and other random triggers.

- Simic Ascendancy: The deck needs a win-con besides Pako commander damage, and this does a great job of doing that, as well as providing a mana sink.
- Sylvan Library: Always a solid card in any deck with basics Forests, and this one is no exception, since it cares (to some extent) about what's on top of the library.
- Aggravated Assault: One of the few extra combat cards I can justify because of its repeated use. There are some loose combo applications with Bear Umbra, but that's the kind of incidental combo I really like because each card is excellent on its own.
- As Foretold: *movie voice* In a world where you have two hands full of cards, being able to cast a few of those cards for free is more useful than you might think.
- Rhythm of the Wild: Comes down early, and does a lot of things that this deck wants to do. Pako usually just wants an extra +1 counter, but being able to get underneath counters is solid. Etali, for example, definitely appreciates the haste. The one small downside is that I've made several mentions of the fact that I don't run many creature spells, and Pako doesn't steal creatures, but there are other theft mechanisms that do steal creatures.
- Bear Umbra: Yet another solid card that never really had a true home for me until now.
- Stolen Strategy: See: Bear Umbra.
- Shark Typhoon: Fits like a glove. This is a non-creature spell that adds value every time you cast more non-creature spells. Alternatively, you can just make an instant-speed, uncounterable flyer. Can't get much more efficient than that.
- Mind's Dilation: See: Bear Umbra.

- Gamble: Tutors for anything, which I've found to be important. Mystical Tutor is underwhelming right now, and there's not nearly enough creatures for the green tutors.
- Stubborn Denial: A cheap counter that should always be a straight-up Negate for one mana.
- Metamorphose: An oldie, and it comes with some risk if they have a worse thing in their hand, but most of the time that's a risk you take in this format. Cheap and instant-speed as well.
- Mythos of Illuna: Yet another card that checks all the boxes. Sometimes, it copies an important creature. Sometimes, it does that AND fights something else. Sometimes, it copies my Shark Typhoon or my Field of the Dead. No matter what, it's a very flexible card.

- Alchemist's Refuge: I just love flash so much.
- Field of the Dead: Auto-include in almost every deck. Free bodies, zero setup cost.
- Kessig Wolf Run: Gives Pako that all-important evasion to push damage through, or turns a random body into a threat. This deck makes plenty of mana to pump into the X.
- Maze of Ith: Allows Pako to attack freely into someone who might have a nasty blocker, and randomly protects me on the back-swing as well.
A few notes on some cards that have not been tested yet, as this is still a fairly new list
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- Rashmi, Eternities Crafter: MOAR spellz! Then again, this might just be win-more, and it's a creature.
- Surrak Dragonclaw: Protects Pako from those pesky counters, gives him the all-important keyword of trample, and even has flash to boot.
- Lashweed Lurker: A creature-based version of the top-of-deck removal spell I run a lot of. Probably too expensive and a creature.

- Basilisk Collar: Mostly for the flavor win with man's best friend, but the growing boy will get very big, and having deathtouch will make it that much more likely for someone else to let him through.
- Trailblazer's Boots: Early returns on this card were very strong: I've never seen a deck that had 0 non-basics. However, it's only one mana cheaper to cast than Whispersilk Cloak.

- Ponder, Preordain, Serum Visions: Cheap cantrips that also stack the top of my library for Pako. Sorcery-speed, one-time effects. Are they worth it over the likes of Sylvan Library or more cheap counters to protect Pako?
- Primal Command: Doesn't hit creatures, and it's sorcery-speed, but it offers some other reasonable modes instead.
- Totally Lost: Instant-speed, hits all the permanent types. A little more expensive because of the speed.
- Vanishment: This deck can set up miracles pretty effectively, and it's an instant.
- Set Adrift: The delve mechanic makes this a lot cheaper.
A few cards I tried and ultimately didn't care for
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- Vedalken Orrery: I'm firmly on board the Josh Lee Kwai bandwagon, but this deck needed to get cheaper and protect the best boy.
- Sphinx-Bone Wand: Tried it, sat there holding it in hand most of the time. Unlike Aria of Flame, the casting cost is enormous, which means waiting around for it to charge up takes even longer.

- Leyline of Anticipation: See Vedalken Orrery.
- Sunbird's Invocation: This card is the reason I play commander, but in this deck, half the spells I plan on casting aren't from my hand.



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Deck Strategy

Coming Soon!


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Credits and Thanks

MeowZeDung for his primer formatting that I totally ripped off.
ZenN for being a heckin' good boy!


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Change Log

4/21/20
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4/21/20
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Rookie mistake not to snow up half my basics for Field of the Dead, and Mystic Sanctuary didn't have enough Islands to work properly.
4/22/20
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4/22/20
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Sylvan should have been here the whole time, M&D's effects are invaluable, trying out the others.
4/27/20
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4/27/20
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Ascendancy finally came in the mail today, and the Helm wasn't doing what I wanted it to do for the price.
5/2/20
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5/2/20
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Shark-nado is too good not to play here. Gonna try it out instead of Surrak.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer is next in line if this works.
5/7/20
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5/7/20
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Wanted to "gamble" on a tutor that could fetch up some key permanents.
Trying out the Wand as another "teeth" card.
Mythos just looks like it checks every box.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer is next in line if this works.
5/22/20
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5/22/20
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The effects that stack the top of my library haven't been working out very well, and mostly just result in me getting locked out of any good draws, due to the lack of shuffle effects.
8/7/20
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The fun police came and did a number on this deck.
- Sphinx-Bone Wand and Curse of Opulence were just not good.
- Extra combat steps are not where I want to be with very few creatures that require protection.
- Thassa, God of the Sea also wasn't pulling her weight.
- As much as I loved the global flash mechanics, I needed to get cheaper and be able to protect the good boy.
- Sunbird's Invocation is still my favorite card in this format, but since I don't cast the cards I fetched from my hand, it doesn't trigger. :(
Last edited by OCPunisher 3 years ago, edited 37 times in total.

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Suggestion: the last line of "you might like to play fetch if", should be something along the lines of, "you're a heckin' good boy".

I dig this. I feel like you're on the right track for these two.

You might be better off with Mina and Denn, Wildborn over Oracle of Mul Daya here. The trample will likely be very relevant with Pako, and theoretically you shouldn't ever need to play off the top to hit your extra drops. Or you could just play both.

Azusa, Lost but Seeking might also be better than Wayward Swordtooth here.

I think you're going to want more protection. Even though Pako already has haste, Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots are both great for protecting him. Whispersilk Cloak is another solid option.

You've got both Seasons Past and Mystical Tutor. If you put in any Time Warp, you've got the potential for infinite turns, if you want it, to go with the infinite attack steps you're already playing via Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra.

Simic Ascendancy definitely seems like a super cute option here. I'd go for it.

I think Stubborn Denial would probably be a solid choice here, as it's cheap and Pako should almost always be 4+.
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Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

When a critter has haste already I'd lean toward just using countermagic and instant speed effects to defend it. Feels a lit better than watching two people naturalize your greaves then kill your critter. Just my preference tho :)

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

pokken wrote:
3 years ago
When a critter has haste already I'd lean toward just using countermagic and instant speed effects to defend it. Feels a lit better than watching two people naturalize your greaves then kill your critter. Just my preference tho :)
Well, they offer extra layers of protection. Obviously this list should have a bunch of counter spells in it, but also having something on it to give it hexproof makes it so that they first need to go find something to remove the gear, which you might have a counter for, and then they still need to have something to remove the dude... which you might have a counter for.

That said, you're right that he's already got haste, so Whispersilk Cloak and Champion's Helm are likely better, since they add other useful things.

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Oh, also, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault can both give you a turn 3 Pako on their own.

Chrome Mox probably has a home here, since you should likely have no shortage of resources so pitching a card to it is gonna be extra fine, and while it's stupidly expensive, if you happen to have a Mox Diamond it definitely seems like an ideal fit with that high land count.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

pokken wrote:
3 years ago
When a critter has haste already I'd lean toward just using countermagic and instant speed effects to defend it. Feels a lit better than watching two people naturalize your greaves then kill your critter. Just my preference tho :)
This is also my preference, and I'll be sure to put a blurb about that in the OP.
ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Chrome Mox probably has a home here, since you should likely have no shortage of resources so pitching a card to it is gonna be extra fine, and while it's stupidly expensive, if you happen to have a Mox Diamond it definitely seems like an ideal fit with that high land count.
I do happen to have both of these, and Chrome Mox also fits the bill of "hey, this is a card I've never actually cast in other decks, but fits just right in here".
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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SocorroTortoise
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 3 years ago

If you're running Field of the Dead, split your basics between regular and snow-covered. There's no cost to doing it and it makes Field more likely to come online - you can get triggers with only Field and basics, which could conceivably happen with your land ramp.

Domri, Anarch of Bolas seems like too little upside for what you're getting unless the uncounterable is particularly relevant to your meta. That may be, because you're going heavy on that effect.

You're relying heavily on Pako and your theft effects to actually do anything and you don't have a lot of ways to protect them. Four counterspells (one of which is 5 CMC) and Bear Umbra don't feel like enough to reliably keep your more impactful cards on the board. I'd consider cutting some of the topdeck interaction, which is cute but situational, for more broadly applicable cards like Negate and Counterspell. You could also cut some of the uncounterable effects for countermagic. Cards like Heroic Intervention are narrower, but still protect your most important cards.

You're going to have to prioritize fetching and ramping into islands for Mystic Sanctuary to come online with only 7 islands in the deck.

39 lands feels a little heavy with the land ramp and cantrips. You're also planning on using your opponent's lands after a certain point. You can probably afford to shave one if not two for low CMC interaction.
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

I agree with basically everything @SocorroTortoise just said.

Lots of cheap counters will do you wonders here. In addition to the ones he listed, you absolutely want Mana Drain if you have one, and maybe a couple of the more versatile (though slightly more mana) counters, like Whirlwind Denial or Disallow. And probably Swan Song.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Doh! Completely forgot to snow my basics...rookie mistake.

Mystic Sanctuary was already on the fence for just that reason. It's probably better off as just another Island.

Given that I am still three colors, despite absurd fixing options, I'm gonna start with just single-pip counters and go from there. More on that to follow.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Ketria Triome > Frontier Bivouac. Just a straight upgrade there.

Also, I really wouldn't worry about double blue for counters. It should almost never be an issue. Triple starts to get mildly concerning, but double should be plenty fine.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

Nice job on the thread and deck, I'm almost never impressed with an initial users efforts, but this is excellent.

If you have Sylvan Library then of course you should play it.

Submerge is a very playable card on theme.

I'm not convinced on the flash elements in Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation.
I get that you want to potentially cast spells during the attack step that you might exile, but its just such a narrow thing.
I guarantee you that you will never want to cast these cards precombat as you want to see what you could cast post combat from your exile fetches.
So these cards are almost certainly dead cards in your hand most games.
From experience if you are not actually designing your deck around these cards, then its hard to justify casting them in a game, as you have sooo many other spells to cast in theory with fetch counters.
Payoffs for playing these types of cards are Seedborn Muse, Awakening, Wilderness Reclamation.

Helm of the Host is another card that you are just never going to realistically cast and equip. Sure its the dream, but the reality is that you are going to have plenty of cards in exile already and its just going to be a case of getting all the mana you need to cast them.

I wouldn't bother with the Trailblazer's Boots and Key to the City either. The fact that Pako, Arcane Retriever gets +1/+1 counters off even lands, means that he is almost certainly going to be a 5/5 on the first attack. Which you should be able to find an opponent who can't deal with that as far as killing it with blockers.
If you're thinking in terms of pushing through Voltron damage, then I think that is being too greedy.
If you allow opponents to block, then there is not quite as much incentive for them to have a "must answer" for it.
You want to get the card advantages off him, and if you force an opponent to use a Demonic Tutor to get an answer, then games won't be as much fun.

Mina and Denn, Wildborn could be used to push through damage eventually, but its the additional land which is the important part.
If you can afford Azusa, Lost but Seeking then a must.

Too be honest not convinced on the extra attack cards either. The thing is that its always going to be about how much mana you have to cast all these fetch cards, and not so much about quantity of them.
Because at the end of the day, you are still drawing your own hand of cards you want to cast as well.
So this deck needs to be about producing mana as best as possible.

As Foretold is just such a slow card from experience playing it. You have limited instants to make use of it in opponents turns, and I've already pointed out I don't like the flash enablers. I promise you you'll end up hating it.

Finale of Promise looks pretty bad with Sunbird's Invocation and Etali, Primal Storm

I know its a little bit more vanilla, but you should focus more on mana, mana, mana, and protection.

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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

I threw together my own list for this, just for %$#% and giggles. I haven't played it yet, but I drew a few hands. Looks like it could be fun.
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Haldan + Pako

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Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Made a couple of updates based on some quality feedback, replacing Mystic Sanctuary and most of the cantrips for some other staples.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Oh man, I played some games with this tonight (with the list I posted above), and the deck was a blast.

After having jammed some games with it, some notes:
  • I'm pretty sure I want more a little more 1 and 2 mana interaction. Despite how hard the deck was ramping, Pako died a lot, and I found I was frequently recasting him and just having a few mana up.
  • After the first game, the whole table was more concerned with keeping Pako off the table, but despite that I still won both games. I was set back a few times, but never felt out.
  • To nobody's surprise, Field of the Dead is insane, and I'm pretty sure I want a Crop Rotation in here.
  • I had Aggravated Assault with a couple ways to take infinite attacks, and I'm honestly not even sure it's necessary. I'm going to keep it for now, but probably cut Sword of Feast and Famine.
  • Several times tonight I ended up with other people's fetch lands, with no targets. Especially Marsh Flats. I think maybe a Chromatic Lantern would be worth considering.
  • Collective Restraint was nuts, and kept me alive in both games.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

Artemis132
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Post by Artemis132 » 3 years ago

ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Oh man, I played some games with this tonight (with the list I posted above), and the deck was a blast.
So how did you actually win those games? Were you able to steal relevant spells that really took you ahead or was it mostly Pako voltron and big ramp advantage / Field of the Dead [/card] in the end?

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Artemis132 wrote:
3 years ago
ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Oh man, I played some games with this tonight (with the list I posted above), and the deck was a blast.
So how did you actually win those games? Were you able to steal relevant spells that really took you ahead or was it mostly Pako voltron and big ramp advantage / Field of the Dead [/card] in the end?
Pako gets really big really fast in a 4 player game. Across the games I killed several people with Pako damage. One person I killed with Zombie tokens from Field of the Dead. One person scooped because I was about to win with Simic Ascendancy. Another scooped when I was able to Ugin, the Spirit Dragon -1 to take out his whole board, while keeping all of mine except an Exploration.

Easily the majority of the things I stole were lands, which was totally fine. Kept me going, and kept me in zombie tokens (primarily used as blockers or fodder for edict effects) when I had Field out. I think the most exciting thing I stole was a Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, which I used to take someone's Consecrated Sphinx.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

@ZenN Can you elaborate more about your inclusion of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? It wasn't ever a card on my radar, so I'd love to know how it works for you.

Glad to see that you were able to win via Simic Ascendancy. As much fun as it is to steal all manner of random things with Pako, I've usually had trouble actually winning games outside of just commander damage, so it would be nice if this were a legitimate win-con.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
3 years ago
ZenN Can you elaborate more about your inclusion of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? It wasn't ever a card on my radar, so I'd love to know how it works for you.

Glad to see that you were able to win via Simic Ascendancy. As much fun as it is to steal all manner of random things with Pako, I've usually had trouble actually winning games outside of just commander damage, so it would be nice if this were a legitimate win-con.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon was put in because I wanted a way to clear the board of little things without killing Pako, which Ugin does nicely. This deck generates more than enough mana to play him reliably. He saved me a couple times last night.

As for Simic Ascendancy, with the speed at which Pako gets counters, and the large amount of mana to available to put extra counters, it really only takes a 3 or 4 turns on the table to win. Or, if you're lucky, you can combine it with Time Warp effects, and/or Strionic Resonator, to get it to go off even quicker. At the very least, it gave me a means to pump Pako enough to swing into someone else's board confidently.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Got to play this deck last night, and for the most part it went exactly as expected.
- The two all-stars were As Foretold and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
- As Foretold took a couple of turns to get started, but since there was a Blind Obedience across the way, I had the time to spare, and it ended up staying around for the majority of the game, so I probably cast at least half a dozen free spells from it, including recasting both commanders.
- Jace was also awesome. At first, I used him to bounce a Blightsteel Colossus that came in by way of Oath of Druids, then I managed to play around an opposing Smothering Tithe with the +2, which happened to set up some great fetches with Pako. One particularly fun play was casting Commit // Memory on said Smothering Tithe, then using Jace to fateseal away the card on top of the Tithe so that Pako could steal it.
- Unfortunately, late in the night, the Ayli/Lurrus player managed to assemble a combo of Dance of the Dead/Leonin Relic-Warder/Blood Artist that I couldn't stop and took the game. Still, the deck felt incredible to play.

Going forward, it would definitely help to have another win-condition besides commander damage from Pako. Simic Ascendancy is at the top of that list, then probably Shark-nado when I can get a hold of one at reasonable (non-Standard) prices. More to follow...
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

Artemis132
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Post by Artemis132 » 3 years ago

ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Easily the majority of the things I stole were lands
I guess while playing this deck you can't really count on stealing cards that win you the game, but you CAN expect to get a really high number of lands. With this in mind, it would make sense to include either more land-based / 'landfall-type' cards or more cards that can use a lot of mana.

What about Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle [/card] in addition to Field of the Dead [/card]?
Or some X-spells, that are already useful in the early to midgame but also scale into your land-heavy lategame? Or more mana sinks like Simic Ascendancy.

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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Artemis132 wrote:
3 years ago
ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Easily the majority of the things I stole were lands
I guess while playing this deck you can't really count on stealing cards that win you the game, but you CAN expect to get a really high number of lands. With this in mind, it would make sense to include either more land-based / 'landfall-type' cards or more cards that can use a lot of mana.

What about Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle [/card] in addition to Field of the Dead [/card]?
Or some X-spells, that are already useful in the early to midgame but also scale into your land-heavy lategame? Or more mana sinks like Simic Ascendancy.
I've been thinking this exact same thing, and my gut reaction says that mana sinks are gonna be the way to go, which is just one reason why Simic Ascendancy will most definitely be coming in as soon as the mail gets here. Aggravated Assault has been maintaining its spot for now, but there are probably better options out there. I'll try to do a bit of research on the subject today.

Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle feels like it would only work in an ideal scenario where you can stick a Prismatic Omen or a Dryad of the Ilysian Grove for some period of time. Conversely, Field of the Dead just works with almost zero effort.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

Artemis132 wrote:
3 years ago
ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
Easily the majority of the things I stole were lands
I guess while playing this deck you can't really count on stealing cards that win you the game, but you CAN expect to get a really high number of lands. With this in mind, it would make sense to include either more land-based / 'landfall-type' cards or more cards that can use a lot of mana.

What about Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle [/card] in addition to Field of the Dead [/card]?
Or some X-spells, that are already useful in the early to midgame but also scale into your land-heavy lategame? Or more mana sinks like Simic Ascendancy.
I agree with the the idea of playing more landfall stuff, though not necessarily Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. I don't think the X spells are really necessary, though. More often than not I'd rather be casting a bunch of spells instead of one big one.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

Quick update: took out Helm of the Host for Simic Ascendancy.

Did a little research on EDHREC and came up with a couple of alternate win-cons. Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't find too many options that seemed like solid fits for what this deck wants to do. Here's what I found:
- Shark Typhoon: If/when the new stuff ever comes out, this will probably be at the top of the list. It triggers off any non-creature spell, not just instants/sorceries, and there's always the cycling option.
- Saheeli, Sublime Artificer: Also triggers off any non-creature, but the tokens are a lot weaker and the source is a lot more vulnerable.
- Metallurgic Summonings: Only works with instants/sorceries, but the tokens are reasonably sized, and there's the extra bonus of possibly getting back a bunch of spells from the graveyard.
- Sphinx-Bone Wand: Also only triggers off instants/sorceries, costs 7 to bring out, takes a while to build up.
- Aria of Flame: Much cheaper than the Wand, but gives everyone 10 life to start out. I have managed to kill several people in Kykar with this card, but the CMC of that deck is as low as it goes. Then again, this deck ramps much better than Kykar.
- Sentinel Tower: Only works on my turn.
- Aetherflux Reservoir: Puts a nice big target on my head, but usually when I need to win there's already a big target, kinda cliche.
- Vicious Shadows: Expensive, requires other creatures to actually die, not get bounced like most of my removal spells.
- Banefire: Generate a bunch of mana and point this at someone's dome. Not very flexible or efficient, but when you absolutely need to get the job done...

Any other ideas that I'm missing?
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

I feel like I'd probably rather put more focus on making sure I can play and connect with Pako to keep things moving along, rather than clutter up the deck with more side plans, but maybe that's just me.

Between infinite turns with Seasons Past, Mystical Tutor, and Time Warp, or infinite combat steps with Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra, using Simic Ascendancy, just plain old attacking people to death, and using whatever you get off fetch triggers, I'm not sure the deck needs any more ways to win.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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OCPunisher
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Post by OCPunisher » 3 years ago

ZenN wrote:
3 years ago
I feel like I'd probably rather put more focus on making sure I can play and connect with Pako to keep things moving along, rather than clutter up the deck with more side plans, but maybe that's just me.

Between infinite turns with Seasons Past, Mystical Tutor, and Time Warp, or infinite combat steps with Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra, using Simic Ascendancy, just plain old attacking people to death, and using whatever you get off fetch triggers, I'm not sure the deck needs any more ways to win.
The main problem I have with your approach is you need a live Pako for 99% of that. Furthermore, the first two are basically the same thing, unless you factor in a Jace of some kind once you've taken infinite turns. Simic Ascendancy sorta works around it, but it's way too slow on its own. Finally, there are so many parts of a successful combat step that have to work out just right. You have to resolve the creature, dodge removal, pay any tax for attacking, get around blockers, and do whatever's considered "lethal damage".

Ideally, I'd like to have at least one way to win the game that doesn't involve the combat step.
A deck for every color: Rakdos | Lord | Heliod | Yeva | Tetsuko | Scarab | Kykar | Kozz | Athreos | Haldan/Pako

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Post by ZenN » 3 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
3 years ago
Ideally, I'd like to have at least one way to win the game that doesn't involve the combat step.
I suppose that's reasonable. You could just throw in a Jace, Wielder of Mysteries as a way to win off the Infinite turns that doesn't require the combat step. Only takes one slot, and it's a decent enough card on its own. Could add in a few other ways to help draw yourself out, if you want, like Blue Sun's Zenith.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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