Style Biter's Breakfast - Volrath, the Shapestealer

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Rorseph
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Post by Rorseph » 4 years ago




Style Biter's Breakfast - Volrath, the Shapestealer



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Table of Contents



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Introduction

Do you like janky creature based combos? Do you like having to walk through all of your steps to make sure that the table understands the timing rules for your win conditions? Do you like winning with combat, but not necessarily combat damage? Then this might be the deck for you!




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Commander Analysis

Why would you want to play Volrath, the Shapestealer? Clone tribal is the first thing that comes to mind for me. Clone something like Viridian Joiner with Volrath and then clone Volrath with Clone and get a 7/5 Viridian Joiner that has Volrath's second ability, too. Replace Viridian Joiner with Cold-eyed Selkie or Blighted Agent. Do that a bunch of times and have something really ridiculous. A totally valid choice, but this isn't that deck.

So, this isn't a clone tribal deck. What is it then? This is a combo deck that uses Volrath, the Shapestealer in conjunction with Nacatl War-Pride to make use of War-Pride's token creation to do weird and interesting things. You're going to abuse some interesting interactions to create some interesting board states. There are multiple paths to victory through this combo, and the important ones will be explained and the rest will be for you to discover on your own, because that's half the fun of building a synergistic deck!

This deck might be for you if:
  • You like weird ways of winning
  • You like multi-card combos
  • You like keeping things flexible
This deck might not be for you if:
  • You want a straightforward path to winning
  • You want to win consistently
  • You don't have a comprehensive grasp of the Comprehensive Rules
  • You don't like arithmetic




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Deck History

This is the end of a long journey on my part to find a home for Birthing Pod and a Sultai deck that really speaks to who I am as a player.
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I started playing Pod in a Meren deck shortly after the release of Commander 2015. At the time, I saw it as a much cheaper alternative to Survival of the Fittest and I was still feeling out whether or not I wanted to play EDH long term. Eventually, I got bored with Meren as a commander and transitioned to Jarad as my Golgari commander of choice and Pod just kind of fell by the wayside since it wasn't as much of a value engine in a combo deck that worked like it did. As I almost always do, I grew tired of having one really good combo in a deck, and it sat idle for a good while.

At the same time, I was looking for a Sultai commander. It's my favorite color combo, but I was having a hard time getting an EDH deck together for it. I felt then, and still kind of do now, that most of the commanders in this color combination feel mostly "goodstuffy" and I wanted something that could make use of the commander to do something unique.

Enter Volrath.

As an aside, I started playing around the time when Weatherlight and Tempest were new. I was a sucker for the story of the Weatherlight and its crew and Volrath is my favorite MtG villain. When he finally got a card that really represented him I wanted to play it!

I bought Faceless Menace when it came out because of Kadena and Volrath (and Thieving Amalgam. GOT DAMN!). Kadena was a bust in practice because there was only one deck that could be played around her. The specifics were different, but in broad strokes, it was always a midrange value deck with morphs. That deck is fine, but I wanted something more.

Back to Volrath. He'd been sitting in my EDH box, just waiting. I'd had some vague ideas around Clone tribal, but that didn't scratch an itch that couldn't easily be fulfilled with a minor loadout change in my Thassa deck. When the world shut down thanks to COVID-19, I found myself with a bit of free time to devote just to brewing. I watched a ton of YouTube videos and read a ton of articles, and, while there were cool decks, everything seemed a bit obvious until I stumbled across a King of Jank video where Nacatl War-Pride was mentioned. Once I realized what that could do, I was off to the races.

Author's Note: I apologize in advance that this deck is so expensive for how asinine it is in practice.




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Current Decklist
Style Biter's Breakfast
Approximate Total Cost:

Budget Considerations
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In what has become my signature move in deckbuilding, this deck isn't exactly cheap and is certainly on the expensive side for what it is and what it does. This speaks to the depth of my personal collection more than anything. Unfortunately, without the tutor suite (~$225 as of 12 April 2020), this deck just won't work. You need to dig up the cards you need when you need them and you can't do that if you can't consistently find them.

If you're looking to build Volrath on a budget, I recommend going for a more straight-forward Voltron route since there are *tons* of creatures that Volrath can clone to excellent effect. I'm even running a few of them myself as a secondary path to victory.




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Card Choice Discussion

Creatures
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  • Birds of Paradise, Deathrite Shaman, Elves of Deep Shadow, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Ilysian Caryatid, Llanowar Elves, Wall of Roots - Mana dorks for ramp. I chose to ramp with creatures because they provide decent fodder for the first link in the Pod chain. I'd like to call particular attention to Ilysian Caryatid since it plays very nicely with Volrath.
  • Blighted Agent - One of the best targets to clone to with Volrath. Two swings from our commander and a player is out. This is a high salt value card, so feel free to swap to taste.
  • Cavalier of Gales - Brainstorm on a body that flies and swings for 5. If you're looking to inflict some tedium on the table combine with Volrath and War-Pride to stack multiple Brainstorms. I really *don't* recommend this because it's hardest on you as the pilot, but you can shortcut it to draw N+2 cards, where N is the number of clones of Cavalier of Gales that entered the battlefield, and then put two back at the end. That assumes that you won't be doing any shuffling in the meantime. If you shuffle, you're on your own. This is currently a slot that should be something else, but I like it for what it is.
  • Cephalid Constable - This is a no-brainer inclusion. You can kill an opposing player's tempo with one swing from Volrath as the Constable.
  • Clever Impersonator - Clones work well with Volrath, but this one doubles as a clone for Pod, too.
  • Coiling Oracle - It cantrips for certain and has an approximately 40% chance to ramp one land.
  • Cold-Eyed Selkie - Another no-brainer inclusion. 7 cards off the top? Yes, please!
  • Eternal Witness - Standard recursion. Might be better off as Regrowth, but it's good off of Pod.
  • Fauna Shaman - Survival number two. An excellent tutor and a common 2CMC target for Pod.
  • Forgotten Ancient - Our best source of +1/+1 counters. What I like about this (and to a lesser extent, Kraj) is that it can put counters on any creature allowing you to play a bit of politics while broadening your variety of targets.
  • Glen Elendra Archmage - A two-for-one counterspell, this is usually a pretty good target for Birthing Pod because Persist allows you to sac it for a 5 CMC creature. (Note to self: get more 5 CMC creatures).
  • Gray Merchant of Asphodel - Combos excellently with Volrath and War-Pride. Remember that it drains everyone and you gain as much life as the total life lost that way. I have often forgotten that part in the past.
  • Merfolk Skydiver - This is one of my pet cards for the deck. One of the people I play with on the regular has an Infect deck that he likes to play and this can help me to turn the tables on him. Also, it's fun with the -1/-1 counters that Volrath provides.
  • Nacatl War-Pride - The core of it all. The second most important card in the deck. This card with its silly little combat trick is the heart of the deck and I just think that's neat.
  • Nezahal, Primal Tide - This is something of a pet card of mine, but it's so powerful it can win games on its own through massive card advantage. Of the few games I've won, this card was integral to one of them keeping my hand full of removal and counter magic.
  • Nezumi Graverobber - Grave hate that can become surprisingly good instant-speed recursion.
  • Pathbreaker Ibex - Victory through combat damage. With Volrath on the 'field, you're looking at a minimum of +21/+21 (if you copy it with Volrath) for your creatures which should be enough to trample through to a win a majority of the time.
  • Phantasmal Image - This is the cheapest, most efficient clone in all of Magic. Combos great with Volrath.
  • Plaguecrafter - Another excellent ETB target for Volrath + War-Pride. This attacks creatures, 'walkers, and hands. Very powerful response.
  • Phyrexian Metamorph - A clone that can become a second Pod in a pinch.
  • Reclamation Sage - Artifact and enchantment removal that's good with Pod.
  • Sakura-Tribe Elder - Chump blocker + ramp? Yes, please.
  • Spark Double - Whatever creature you clone with this can then be cloned by Volrath immediately.
  • Tetzimoc, Primal Death - In here strictly for the prey counter ability, but sometimes the mass destruction can come in handy. Primarily for counters, though, since Volrath can clone any creature with any kind of counter on it.
  • Viridian Joiner - All the mana with this and Volrath.
  • Wood Elves - Ramp + Pod Synergy
  • Zameck Guildmage - A source of +1/+1 counters


Lands

I'm only calling out the utility lands because the lands that produce colored mana can be built to taste. Just make sure you have plenty of colored mana available because this is a color intensive deck.
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  • Forbidden Orchard - Create tokens that you can force to block more of your new Cat Warrior friends. :)
  • Novijen, Heart of Progress - The only land in our colors that make +1/+1 counters.
  • Maze of Ith - Keeps Volrath safe from blockers while he's swinging out. Can also be used to protect from opposing Voltron decks, but mostly it protects Volrath.
  • Strip Mine - This can easily become Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge. It's useful for taking out opposing problem lands and we only need one in most cases.


Enchantment
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  • Greater Good - This combos well with all of the clones you can make off of Volrath and War-Pride. I'm not sure if this is a win-more card or not, but it can draw you a lot of cards.
  • Mystic Remora - A cheap source of card draw since no one ever pays 4. There are worse things to spend mana on.
  • Survival of the Fittest - Since so much virtual ink has been spilled over this card over the last two decades, I'll spare you my thoughts on its power. Suffice it to say, if you have one run it, but it's so expensive that I wouldn't go out of my way to get it. Just run another creature or try out Evolutionary Leap.


Instants
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Sorceries
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  • Diabolic Intent - I don't have a Demonic Tutor, but I do have one of these and a ton of expendable creatures.
  • Fabricate - Effectively, this is Birthing Pod number 3. Even though, Pod is effectively the only target, I want to be able to find it as often as I can.
  • Green Sun's Zenith - While this finds Nacatl War-Pride, it's an excellent creature tutor that can bring up a lot of other cards in our key categories like removal and +1/+1 counter generation.
  • Neoform - A one-shot Pod time effect, this can tutor up just about whatever we need as we need it. Of note, this puts a +1/+1 counter on the creature it puts into play meaning that Volrath can immediately clone it.
  • Ponder, Preordain - I have a hard time not running these cards (along with Brainstorm and Impulse) in any deck that runs blue. I'm a sucker for card selection and these are the best of the best.
  • Reanimate - This should probably be a Turn Aside or some sort of one CMC removal spell, but Reanimate never fails to delight me. Being able to recur anyone's creature to do my bidding is a powerful effect that fits into our game plan nicely.


Artifacts
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  • Birthing Pod - Our primary tutoring value engine. So important in most cases that we're running Fabricate with this as its only real target. Curve ETBs into other ETBs for value or cheat your way up your CMC costs to get to the next level faster. It gets what you need at sorcery speed!
  • Bow of Nylea - A very powerful static ability with a number of good choices for its activated ability. Deathtouch on attacking creatures is very good in conjunction with War-Pride
  • Sol Ring - Not always an auto-include for me, but it can ramp us into Volrath, Pod, or Nacatl War-Pride. Definitely worthy of a slot in this case.


Notable Exclusions
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Deck Philosophy

This deck is heavly inspired by Paul Barclay's Full English Breakfast deck, an all time favorite of mine. As such, it has a similar philosophy of taking advantage of the stack to make ridiculous plays happen. Additionally, this deck is all in on its one victory combo, much like its inspiration and namesake.

Unfortunately, there's a lot more hate available for creatures on the battlefield than there is for creatures in a graveyard. As such, this is a glass cannon of a deck. You want to do one thing and you're doing it for the fun, the aesthetic, or both. This isn't a deck for everyone, but it's rewarding to those willing to put in the effort to make it work for them.




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Deck Strategy

I'm going to level with you. It can be hard to win with this deck because it requires a minimum of 18 mana over at least two turns in order to combo out. That doesn't happen every game. With that said, I believe the times when it does work out make up for all the times when it does not. Just mulligan aggressively and keep your fingers crossed.

Now, let's talk about the combos we'll eventually want to assemble and how they work.

Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Pathbreaker Ibex
This is our baseline combo. It's relatively straightforward. You clone Nacatl War-Pride with Volrath and get 7/5 tokens instead of 3/3 tokens. Not the greatest, but it works. Then, add in Pathbreaker Ibex, stack the triggers so that Volrath is a copy of Ibex, the tokens get created first and the Ibex triggers comes second and Volrath pumps out X 28/26 tokens, where X is the number of blocking creatures, with trample and you've got a decent win condition that will work against most decks in a 75% or slower meta.

Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Biovisionary
This is the "easy" way to win:
  1. Move to attack phase
  2. Clone War-Pride with Volrath
  3. Attack
  4. With War-Pride Trigger on the stack, clone Biovisionary with Volrath
  5. Get at least two tokens named "Biovisionary"
  6. Put Biovisionary's trigger on the stack last so that it happens first in the end phase
  7. Profit!
If you've ever wanted to win with Biovisionary in EDH, this is arguably the most stylish way to do it. I'm not currently running it, but it's included here for the sake of completeness. This is the easiest and most consistent way to win.

Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Any ETB or Combat Trigger Effect
This is where things start to get tricky and knowledge of the stack will start to come in handy. Get your basic combo set up to the start of the attack phase. Then stack your triggers as follows: token creation, copy your ETB creature. This will give you a number of ETB or combat damage effects equal to the number of tokens you create. Example creatures that this is great for: Plaguecrafter, Cephalid Constable, Eternal Witness, Wood Elves, and Reclamation Sage.

Also note, clones make all of these effects better. Just be sure to use them to copy Volrath after he's already copied another creature. This gives you a 7/5 copy of the creature that also has Volrath's activated ability.

Now, without further ado, how to pilot this deck!

Early Game Strategy
As mentioned previously, mulligan aggressively. Ideally, you'll have 3 lands, a ramp creature, and some kind of disruption or gas in your opening hand. Given the tutor/card advantage density you have in this deck, you can afford to take advantage of the upsides of the London Mulligan. Your commander costs 5 mana, don't ever keep a one land hand. Two land hands are marginal, but if you've got mana dorks and/or a Ponder type card, it could work out for you. Just be aware, low land count hands are inevitably a trap.

Early on, you'll be looking for ramp and some tutors to help you assemble your board state. Your first targets should be creatures that make counters. I find that if you've got a x/1 that you want to clone with Volrath (e.g. Cephalid Constable), going for Tetzimoc to your hand is generally a good first stop. Secondary targets will likely be removal of some sort. Don't worry about getting combo pieces just yet. Focus on developing your resources, especially your mana base. This deck is mana hungry and color intensive. Make sure you have enough mana, especially enough green, given the three green pip price of Nacatl War-Pride.

Finally, get your hands on Survival or Pod so that you can get to the end of the mid game. You'll need some recurring tutoring in order to fully build out your combo engine as well to help you find your answers.

Mid-Game Strategy
At this point, you should be setting up your recurring creature tutors if you haven't already. Don't bother forcing this too early since you want to focus more on getting and protecting Volrath on the board than Pod. You can protect Volrath through a couple of different routes. First, you can hold open counterspells; this works nicely because it can stop boardwipes as well as pinpoint removal. Alternatively, you can make Volrath more resilient in conjunction with clone-able role players like Rainbow Efreet, Invisible Stalker, or Young Wolf. As alluded to earlier, cards like Efreet and Stalker are big reasons to get Tetzimoc early.

Once you get Pod (or Fauna Shaman or Survival of the Fittest) online, the board state dictates where you go next.

If you find yourself in a position where you have some removal or counterspells in hand and a pretty developed boardstate, start trying to assemble your victory combo. Caution is key, though, because this deck is approximately as resilient as a wet Kleenex. However, given the way your board develops, you're likely to be evaluated as less of a threat. This deck isn't flashy, so play to that. Feel free to slow roll your play. Don't give in to the temptation to over commit.

When you're hoping to bait out some removal, I recommend searching up Nezahal. He will quickly become the elephant in the room that everyone needs to deal with. You can also generate a ton of card advantage in the process. I feel like this is a slightly underrated threat and it provides an excellent sideshow to the main event. You'll definitely get some attention for Nezahal, directing it away from what else you'll be trying to do.

Likewise, if you need to deal with an opponent's board, tutor up some creature based removal. There's a nice, compact suite (Reclamation Sage, Plaguecrafter, Deathrite Shaman, &c.) available for this purpose. Bow of Nylea's "Attacking creatures have deathtouch" clause is especially nasty in conjunction with the forced blocking clause on War-Pride. If all else fails, Cyclonic Rift will reset things very nicely. Note, though, that an opponent's board full of creatures might be best left alone to allow more copies through War-Pride. It can take a while to get a hang of when to blow things up and when to leave them be, but it's a big portion of mastering the deck.

As previously indicated, another avenue of attack is to use clones to make better versions of cards like Viridian Joiner. Ramping up 7 mana in a turn can be pretty good, I hear. Here's how you do it: as usual, start by getting a counter of some sort on the creature you want to clone. There's plenty of choices, so use what's at hand. Clone that creature with Volrath. Volrath is now a 7/5 version of Viridian Joiner. Next, play a clone targeting Volrath. You now have an additional 7/5 version of Viridian Joiner that also has Volrath's activated ability. This can get even sillier with targets like Blighted Agent or Cold-eyed Selkie. This is a pretty aggressive move, so do so with caution while keeping in mind that this can be an additional avenue to bait out removal that might otherwise hit War-Pride or Ibex.

To progress your board state to the end game, you have two main outs: Pathbreaker Ibex and Nacatl War-Pride. You can win with them singly or with them in conjunction with each other. As noted previously, Pathbreaker Ibex can lead to +21/+21 and trample for your team and we have a plethora of fun available to us with War-Pride. This is where you choose your own adventure and set yourself up to win with your chosen combo.

How do you choose between the two if you only have the opportunity to get one of them? If your board state is underdeveloped, Ibex is probably your best bet. It can allow Volrath to one-shot an opponent and will turn any of your mana dorks into absolute beasts. If you've got an ETB creature sitting lonely on the board, then you might want to consider War-Pride instead to get additional value (see below for more info). War-Pride is also the correct choice if any of your opponents are going wide and/or if you have Bow of Nylea out. Deathtouch on attacking creatures, ftw!

Late Game Strategy
If you've made it to the late game, congratulations! I can speak from experience that this is an accomplishment in and of itself. Volrath is on the board, you've got War-Pride on the field or in your hand, you've got a way to get a counter on War-Pride, and there's something to put you over the top like Pathbreaker Ibex. Cool! Time to win.

Failing that, however, there are still alternate paths to victory.

Cloning Volrath into a Selkie or Blighted Agent will get you a W. Basically, if you can make Volrath unblockable, he's quite viable as a Voltron commander as a backup here, provided you only have one opponent to deal with at this point.

Abusing ETB is another alternative. Repeatedly cloning multiple Plaguecrafters or Reclamation Sages can absolutely dominate a board. If you can clear things out, you can make your path to victory easier. Especially if you've lost Ibex to exile based removal. Last, but certainly not least, give consideration to draining out the board using Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Remember, all of the copies enter the battlefield at the same time and thus see all of the black mana pips that are on all of the copies.

At the end of the day, this is a jank fest, but it's got the potential to make your friends scratch their heads, go "Wait, what?" and ask my favorite question: "What's that card again?" And that, my friend, is priceless.




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Credit & Thanks

All due credit to Paul Barclay for the original inspiration and to the King of Jank for pointing out the specific interactions with Nacatl War-Pride that allowed me to bring this concept to its final form.




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Change Log

1 May 2020
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In Out These were some rather easy changes to make based on the second round of feedback I received from the community. Plaguecrafter is strictly better than Merciless Executioner. Sunken Hollow usually comes into play tapped anyway, might as well make it tap for all three colors while still being fetchable. Mindblade Render has a much higher ceiling. Bramble Sovereign feels slightly better than Metamorph. Maze of Ith is more versatile, even if it can't tap for mana. And last, but not least, Forbidden Orchard gives us tokens we can force into blocking for copies off the main combo.

We'll see how these changes play out.
8 May 2020
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In Out This was in testing, but became kind of a no-brainer after my last victory. Gary can put in some serious work.
29 May 2020
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In Out Lots to unpack here, so let's go through it bit by bit.

On the departing cards: Bramble Sovereign is out because it can't clone Volrath. Dimir House Guard has finally been upgraded to Demonic Tutor. Genesis has been too hard to get into the graveyard; it's good, but not for this deck. Invisible Stalker is just a slightly less desirable Blighted Agent. Mindblade Render might have a higher ceiling than Wall of Blossoms, but it also has a lower floor. Rainbow Efreet, Spike Feeder, and Experiment Kraj never worked quite as well as I wanted them to work. Split-second hasn't be relevant, so Krosan Grip gets the axe. Crop Rotation + Bojuka Bog just weren't good enough in this deck, and Withered Wretch got upgraded to Nezumi Graverobber because the rat can also reanimate.

On the new arrivals:
Greater Good, Lim-Dul's Vault, Demonic Tutor, Coiling Oracle, and Mystic Remora all provide additional card draw/selection. Lim-Dul's Vault has really held its own and I think it's seriously underplayed at only 11% of potential decks. Bow of Nylea comes in as a Swiss army knife of value. Cavalier of Gales is back (as I knew it would be) for ETB shenanigans. Stubborn Denial and Return to Nature come in as efficient protection and removal. Reflecting Pool replaces Bojuka Bog. And last, but certainly not least, Nezumi Graverobber provides some graveyard hate as well as some recursion since doing more is always better than doing less.
6 October 2020
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In
  • Heroic Intervention
Out
  • Cyclonic Rift
I don't have a lot of opportunity to use Cyclonic Rift effectively for this deck, since I'm liable to tap out on my big turn and thus 7 mana would be a tall order. Heroic Intervention seems like just the kind of thing I'd want in this deck. I've been very fortunate to have counterspells in hand to stop wrath-effects so far, so having another move on that front just makes sense.
Last edited by Rorseph 3 years ago, edited 49 times in total.
"From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began."
—Phyrexian Scriptures


Aurelia | Maelstrom Wanderer | Primer: Thassa | Uro | Primer: Volrath

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 4 years ago

You could do Pickles lock of Brine Elemental + Vesuvan Shapeshifter.

Yawgmoth, Thran Physician + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed for recursion loops (sacrifice a creature to Yawg's ability, it comes back with a +1/+1 counter, sac a different creature without a +1/+1 counter to put a -1/-1 counter on the original creature sac'ed, repeat).

Quillspike + Devoted Druid for an infinitely large Quillspike.

Those are just a few.

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Post by Rorseph » 4 years ago

I had forgotten about Quillspike + Devoted Druid. I used to have that in my Jarad deck way back when. Pickles is too feel bad for what I'm after.
benjameenbear wrote:
4 years ago
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed for recursion loops
Ooh! This is intriguing. Especially with a full package of ETB creatures. I'm definitely going to take this one under consideration.
"From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began."
—Phyrexian Scriptures


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Post by Rorseph » 4 years ago

Updated the first post with more of my thoughts on the deck and an updated list after removing the reanimator components. Thoughts and opinions still welcome!
"From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began."
—Phyrexian Scriptures


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Post by Rorseph » 4 years ago

Current thoughts for a winning combo (credit to King of Jank for base idea):

Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Pathbreaker Ibex = Massive Overrun Win
or
Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Biovisionary = Hilarious Combo Win
or
Volrath + Nacatl War-Pride + Any Clone + Any ETB Removal = Slightly Less Massive Boardsweeper

This kind of creature based win is exactly what I had in mind for this deck. I definitely see a copy of Nacatl War-Pride in my future!
"From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began."
—Phyrexian Scriptures


Aurelia | Maelstrom Wanderer | Primer: Thassa | Uro | Primer: Volrath

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Post by Rorseph » 4 years ago

Prettied up the first post and went into more depth around how things work now!
"From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began."
—Phyrexian Scriptures


Aurelia | Maelstrom Wanderer | Primer: Thassa | Uro | Primer: Volrath

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Cool stuff, I honestly didn't realise that Volrath plus War-Pride could be this fun. Your explanation of how this guy is the perfect deck to give this jank its time in the sun was great, and the way it weaponises conventional useful ETB stuff is a nice touch too.

Here are some minor thoughts on the deck itself, maybe some would be applicable?
  • It feels Plaguecrafter would be more brutal than Merciless Executioner when War-Pride wombo'd. Instead of a pure board wipe, your foes likely just lost all their creatures, walkers and hands.
  • You don't seem to be running any powerhouse lands, is Crop Rotation worth a slot?
  • Going a little deeper on ETB goodstuff wouldn't hurt, as it works nicely with both Pod chains and War-Pride explosions. Ravenous Chupacabra is creature removal. My Pod-wielding friend seems to swear by Depression Automaton and always seems to get it as his first four drop. That said, running him in a Gx list always made me conceptually sad :P
 
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

I feel like it needs more Gray Merchant of Asphodel but this idea of war pride is awesome :)

I think you might get some mileage out of playing Forbidden Orchard too. Just an incidental good card that juices the war pride numbers. No need to go all Genesis Chamber or other artificial ways but orchard is great.

Mindblade Render is a must in this deck imho. In general a lot of the combat damage connecting creatures are exceptional with Volrath (Oakhame Adversary as well)

Anyway, really nice deck, fun stuff :)

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

This is a cool idea, I really like Nacatl War-Pride as a card and it's a card that doesn't get the love it deserves. I use it myself to great effect in my Nissa build.

I thought it might be helpful to compare notes and share what's worked for me with the kitties: Hope some of this is food for thought!
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

First of all, thanks y'all for the positive feedback. I'm glad to see that this deck has resonated with others, too! I see a lot great ideas for things that will at least make it into a "Notable Exceptions" section. :grin:
Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 years ago
Cool stuff, I honestly didn't realise that Volrath plus War-Pride could be this fun. Your explanation of how this guy is the perfect deck to give this jank its time in the sun was great, and the way it weaponises conventional useful ETB stuff is a nice touch too.

Here are some minor thoughts on the deck itself, maybe some would be applicable?
  • It feels Plaguecrafter would be more brutal than Merciless Executioner when War-Pride wombo'd. Instead of a pure board wipe, your foes likely just lost all their creatures, walkers and hands.
  • You don't seem to be running any powerhouse lands, is Crop Rotation worth a slot?
  • Going a little deeper on ETB goodstuff wouldn't hurt, as it works nicely with both Pod chains and War-Pride explosions. Ravenous Chupacabra is creature removal. My Pod-wielding friend seems to swear by Depression Automaton and always seems to get it as his first four drop. That said, running him in a Gx list always made me conceptually sad :P
Plaguecrafter is a clear upgrade. It'll be in the next iteration for sure.

I run Crop Rotation almost entirely to get Bojuka Bog. It's worth it to me just for that because of all the graveyard decks in my personal meta.


I'll have to see what would work best, but going for more ETB is definitely a good call. Maybe even the Sad Robot, but I toally agree that it's a feel bad to run it in Gx.
pokken wrote:
3 years ago
I feel like it needs more Gray Merchant of Asphodel but this idea of war pride is awesome :)

I think you might get some mileage out of playing Forbidden Orchard too. Just an incidental good card that juices the war pride numbers. No need to go all Genesis Chamber or other artificial ways but orchard is great.

Mindblade Render is a must in this deck imho. In general a lot of the combat damage connecting creatures are exceptional with Volrath (Oakhame Adversary as well)

Anyway, really nice deck, fun stuff :)
I hadn't even thought of Gary. That's some good tech!

I've got a Forbidden Orchard sitting in my trade binder. Seems like it's better than Exotic Orchard in this deck. Good call.

I'll explore the Saboteurs more for sure, but Mindblade Render is near the top. I didn't even think about Warrior tribal stuff in conjunction with War-Pride.

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
This is a cool idea, I really like Nacatl War-Pride as a card and it's a card that doesn't get the love it deserves. I use it myself to great effect in my Nissa build.

I thought it might be helpful to compare notes and share what's worked for me with the kitties: Hope some of this is food for thought!
I feel like I really slept on Battlebond, now. Bramble Sovereign is another card that wasn't even on my radar before. Definitely getting tested.

Mirage Mirror could be good. Another target to help justify Fabricate.

The Maze effects are probably better than Rogue's Passage in this build.

My tutor suite is my backup, but a Fierce Empath could be spicy with a slightly different package of creatures at the top end of the CMC curve.

There's definitely plenty of food for thought.
_____

Thanks again for the excellent suggestions, everyone!
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Post by pokken » 3 years ago

Oh Greater Good is a card I always think of eventually with Volrath. His power is huge. It's great for protecting him. And with all the clones. Good way to discourage sweepers too when you likely have 35 power on board an awful lot.

It's also very slow but I tend to look at Buried Alive when I play Genesis. You can do a lot of engine work with that.

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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

Greater Good, of course. That should find a slot.

It's funny that you mention Buried Alive. That was in the earliest version of the deck when I was running Necrotic Ooze and a full reanimation package to boot. Genesis is on the bubble at the moment, but maybe it could have a home? We'll have to see what shakes out in testing.
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Post by Flipthecoin » 3 years ago

Love me some Volrath, great deck man!
Although, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Avenger of Zendikar or Frost Titan ( Grave Titan too) with Nacatl, it's absolutely incredible if you manage to pull those off. Tap a bunch of permanents that don't untap and a bunch of plants. Really good janky stuff right there!
Keep up the good work man, quality stuff right here.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Rorseph wrote:
3 years ago
Greater Good, of course. That should find a slot.
While we're on sac outlets, Altar of Dementia could be a cool way to use War-Pride kitten copies post combat. As a bonus, it has Volrath flavour which is the best flavour. He's always been my favourite MTG villain too.

Also, how would Renata, Called to the Hunt suit you for getting counters on things to copy? Seems pretty easy to me.
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
Rorseph wrote:
3 years ago
Greater Good, of course. That should find a slot.
While we're on sac outlets, Altar of Dementia could be a cool way to use War-Pride kitten copies post combat. As a bonus, it has Volrath flavour which is the best flavour. He's always been my favourite MTG villain too.

Also, how would Renata, Called to the Hunt suit you for getting counters on things to copy? Seems pretty easy to me.
Ooh! In a more flavorful build, or in a Necrotic Ooze centric build (something I want to try, btw), Altar of Dementia would be excellent. I'm not sure it works for me given my relative lack of recursion/graveyard usage, but I love the idea.

I think I have a Renata, Called to the Hunt hanging out from the box of THB I opened. That seems like it could go in Forgotten Ancient's slot or as Ancient #2. Good call.
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Post by rogerandover » 3 years ago

This decklist looks real cool. I also have fond memories of Nacatl War-Pride, so seeing a deck that revolves around it is nice.

A few suggestions:
- I kinda feel like Spike Feeder should be Spike Weaver. Weaver is such a good card. It can stall out while you build up your board, or can even focus attackers elsewhere.
- Novijen, Heart of Progress isn't the only land to give +1/+1 counters. You also got Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, though it only gives to green ones, so that might be too limited for you.
- Exclusion of Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor, why? They both seem way better then Dimir House Guard.

Anyways, cool deck!

Edit: There's also Pod on a stick - Prime Speaker Vannifar.

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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

rogerandover wrote:
3 years ago
This decklist looks real cool. I also have fond memories of Nacatl War-Pride, so seeing a deck that revolves around it is nice.

A few suggestions:
- I kinda feel like Spike Feeder should be Spike Weaver. Weaver is such a good card. It can stall out while you build up your board, or can even focus attackers elsewhere.
- Novijen, Heart of Progress isn't the only land to give +1/+1 counters. You also got Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, though it only gives to green ones, so that might be too limited for you.
- Exclusion of Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor, why? They both seem way better then Dimir House Guard.

Anyways, cool deck!

Edit: There's also Pod on a stick - Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Spike Weaver is another excellent choice. I'm waffling between the two but went with Feeder because it's 3CMC vs Weaver's 4CMC. I'd need to shuffle some stuff around, but it could be good.

The fact that Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is limited to green creatures is the only reason it didn't make the cut.

Demonic and Vampiric aren't in because I don't have copies and they're not currently in the budget, but I will be mentioning them under notable exclusions. They're on the wish list for long term, though.

Vannifar is one of the cards that didn't make the initial set of cuts before I posted the deck. The 4CMC position is really crowded for what I want to do here. :grin:
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Post by rogerandover » 3 years ago

Other options for +1/+1 counters on lands is Guildmages' Forum, but that is even more limited. You also have Llanowar Reborn. Sucks that it enters tapped, but it's a free activation. If you could proliferate the counters somehow, it can even give multiple creatures counters.

Did you see anything from Ikoria that adds counters, ala Blood Curdle, that could make the cut?

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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

rogerandover wrote:
3 years ago
Other options for +1/+1 counters on lands is Guildmages' Forum, but that is even more limited. You also have Llanowar Reborn. Sucks that it enters tapped, but it's a free activation. If you could proliferate the counters somehow, it can even give multiple creatures counters.
In a different configuration, I think I'd be all about Llanowar Reborn, but I just don't have the room for the fuller proliferate support it'd need to be good.
Did you see anything from Ikoria that adds counters, ala Blood Curdle, that could make the cut?
So, I took a second look at Ikoria (and Commander 2020) with this deck in mind. I think that Chevill, Bane of Monsters and Call of the Death-Dweller could both make the cut. Chevill definitely could do a lot of good work.
___

What do we think of Bow of Nylea for counter production in this deck? I'm also looking at Shapers of Nature. I've been doing some deep diving into Gatherer and coming up a bit short of where I'd like to, but there are tons of interesting cards that play with counters. Too bad that most of them aren't quite right for me here. :P
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Hot take - you don't need that much counter stuff. Don't forget Volrath comes with his own -1/-1 counter dispenser. So I'd definitely skip Shapers of Nature. Bow of Nylea I like more, as deathtouch on attackers is no slouch if Ohran Frostfang taught me anything.
 
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

Indeed! Deathtouch plus mandatory blocking from Nacatl War-Pride seems very strong, actually.

I'm thinking that some counter stuff is nice since I can use it in the run-up to playing Volrath and have some clone targets ready to go out of the gate.
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

I won a game with a combo today, so game report!

It was my weekly game today with co-workers; we've migrated to Cockatrice to keep things 'normal.' (It's the little things, dammit!) My opponents were playing Ezuri, Renegade Leader Elfball and Sigarda, Host of Herons Voltron/Enchantress. We spent the first few turns ramping hard. The Ezuri player had about a dozen elves on the table and I had a bunch of mana dorks and had just cloned Pathbreaker Ibex with Bramble Sovereign when the Sigarda player topdecked Divine Reckoning and put everyone back to square one. Ezuri never really recovers and I manage to get Nacatl War-Pride into play via Birthing Pod and then top deck Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Sigarda player flips a coin and attacks the Ezuri player to finish him off with commander damage. I untap and combo off with Gary, draining for 14 while attacking for 31, just enough to seal the deal.

Lessons learned:
  • Bramble Sovereign is a lot better than I was expecting it to be. Doubling Pathbreaker Ibex felt really good.
  • Gary is going to replace Cavalier of Gales. It would have been absolutely insane if the Sigarda player had had more than 2 creatures on the board.
  • Pod is not as good as I had hoped. It was clutch today, but it's been sitting mostly unused for the last few games. My chains aren't as good as I would like and I don't think I can improve them without negatively impacting the combo potential. I'm thinking about going all in on the combo front now, but I'll need another recurring tutor. Maybe Fiend Artisan?
In any event, I got a great positive reception when I combo'd off, which is all I hoped for. :grin:
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

So, I've replaced Cavalier of Gales with Gray Merchant of Asphodel for now. I'm thinking it will make its way back in eventually, since it's been pretty good on its own. Probably for Glen Elendra Archmage, as hinted at in the following decklist.

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Summary of Changes

So, this iteration is going to replace Pod with stuff that helps me to go all in on the combo front. Demonic Tutor is appreciably cheaper than I remember it being, so in it goes. More ETB, more tutoring, more card draw, more card selection, and less Voltron. I'll be giving this a test this week and seeing what happens.
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Post by Rorseph » 3 years ago

So, the latest round of changes was a mixed bag, as I had a gut feeling they would be right before the last game I played with them. Pod is better than I was giving it credit for. Demonic Tutor, Coiling Oracle, Greater Good, and Return to Nature are particularly welcome changes. I'm going to give some serious thought to the Pod chains and make some room Lim-Dûl's Vault, which is a criminally underrated card.

Testing continues!
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

So seeing how you're exploring various avenues for the deck, have you considered some persist/undying dweebs for Volrath to have another layer of protection? Young Wolf is particularly cute, as you can just smack him with the Volrath -1/-1 if you have no other counter sources, he comes back undead, and is eligible for being Volrath'd in times of need. A guy in my group sketched up a list that was all about making Volrath persisting/undying and feeding him to stuff like Greater Good, and it did things. What a weirdly versatile legend. You don't need to fully pivot in that direction, of course, but it could be another layer for insuring your game plan.
 
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