Niv-Mizzet, Parun - "Controlled Burn" - No creatures!

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

I like Reality Ripple idea. You can also use Teferi's Time Twist as a similar effect. I agree that you really want Niv to stick around against board wipes because A) casting cost is high B) with a reset board it's easy to focus on controlling the board with Niv damage as there will be less creatures to deal with in the following turns.

Steal Enchantment is one of those cards that I should play in probably every blue deck but just never do because...well I just never do.
If you actually think about it this card is absurdly good. Two mana for some of the biggest swings you'll find in games. Getting a Sylvan Library or Rhystic Study early is probably the difference between winning or losing.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
I like Reality Ripple idea. You can also use Teferi's Time Twist as a similar effect. I agree that you really want Niv to stick around against board wipes because A) casting cost is high B) with a reset board it's easy to focus on controlling the board with Niv damage as there will be less creatures to deal with in the following turns.
Nice, wasn't familar with that card. I think it would be good to have some redundancy. I do really like that Reality Ripple can hit your opponents stuff. Makes it better to have in the first few turns. It works very well to stop infinite combos, at least for a turn. Most infinite combos rely specific creatures or artifacts.

Time Twist is limited to defensive use only in this deck, although the blink effect is quite nice for a blink deck.

What are your thoughts on some of the other cards I mentioned? I am particularly excited about Scorched Earth.
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Post by darrenhabib » 3 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
3 years ago
What are your thoughts on some of the other cards I mentioned? I am particularly excited about Scorched Earth.
Sure utility lands can be problematic when it comes to any late game grinds and I imagine you get a lot of turns where you just discard lands.

Radiate was a key card in my Firesong and Sunspeaker deck but its hard card to line up. It might just be that if opponents have wide enough boards to make Radiate get good value, that by the time you get enough mana you'll have just lost the game.
With my Firesong and Sunspeaker I had lots of ways to gain life so I would specifically not kill my opponents creatures until I was ready for a big turn. I don't think you'll be afforded that luxury?

Fade Away is probably an underrated card, but it will be trickier to find perfect windows of opportunities. If your opponents are all tapped out then it's better to just play Curiosity. The was a very dry joke :P

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
Sure utility lands can be problematic when it comes to any late game grinds and I imagine you get a lot of turns where you just discard lands.
Well what I like about this card is that you can still use it early game as spot removal for something like a Cabal Coffers. Like I said, "1R, Discard a Land" seems like a bargain. I had strongly consider Raze because it is so darn efficient but then I realized I really almost never have spare lands to sac early game. Same reason Strip Mine isn't the best option either. Then there is the issue of spot removal being flexible. Hitting just one type of non-creature permanent and only one of them isn't really worth a slot in commander in my opinion. Scorched Earth has the added possibility of being a complete blowout spell lategame.

I'm just tired of watching my opponents accrue more and more value from their "untouchable" lands. Now we have lands like The World Tree that actually require answers before they pop off.
darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
Radiate was a key card in my Firesong and Sunspeaker deck but its hard card to line up. It might just be that if opponents have wide enough boards to make Radiate get good value, that by the time you get enough mana you'll have just lost the game.

With my Firesong and Sunspeaker I had lots of ways to gain life so I would specifically not kill my opponents creatures until I was ready for a big turn. I don't think you'll be afforded that luxury?
Yeah, you are mostly likely correct here. I still love the effect but 3RR is a lot to hold up.

darrenhabib wrote:
3 years ago
Fade Away is probably an underrated card, but it will be trickier to find perfect windows of opportunities. If your opponents are all tapped out then it's better to just play Curiosity. The was a very dry joke :P
I'm looking forward to experimenting with it. We probably have better board wipe options in these colors, but still a very interesting card IMO.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 3 years ago

I want to talk about another card and that card is Firestorm. At first glance this seems absolutely amazing until you realize that you actually need exactly X legal targets to cast this. Even so, I think this card can be good and even a better card in the deck than Lightning Bolt. Admittedly, I have Bolt in here largely for the iconic flavor of it and not because there aren't better choices.

Circumventing mana costs is really broken. I think if you view this as being spot removal it is pretty good. Discarding 2 or 3 cards earlish game to kill a few utility creatures at instant speed seems great. It's kind of like a Lightning Bolt with a kicker cost of discarding a card to copy it. Remember that this deck really draws a ton of cards. I often have a bunch of cards in hand, mainly just sitting there.

It's on the reserve list so it's price is somewhat high, but still affordable at 25$ish.

The thing that really makes me think about this card though is that it can hit players. Unlike Lightning Bolt, the high end of this card is off the charts. So just think about how many times Blasphemous Act gets cast for just R? It's not like there is a shortage of creatures in any given game. EDH, especially casualish EDH is about creatures. So, in this scenario, Firestorm acts like a Blasphemous Act that also hits opponents. I think that's pretty good.

If you can manage to copy this spell while it's on the stack at least twice, that should be GG. It's situational but just seems very fun to play. I think for decks like Kess, Dissident Mage or Rielle, the Everwise this would be an autoinclude.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Ok, so Insight is really fantastic. Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora have really taught me just how powerful passive card draw is in commander.

If you think about it, when is the last time you've sat down to a semi-competetive table of EDH and not had an opponent that at least has a partial green deck? My playgroup is full of green players. One guy almost exclusively builds decks with green in them. So, needless to say this is fantastic for my playgroup.

I always advise running cards that work well in your group and be willing to change things up when appropriate or when new strategies hit the table.

In my list Insight came in for Thirst for Meaning. The instant is a great one shot fill up your hand card or an early hand fixing spell, but Insight will almost always be on the same level as Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora in my setting so I think this is an easy swap. I will have more swaps coming soon and will post an official write up.

As far as Strixhaven goes, I didn't see a single card I was really intrigued by for this deck other than maybe Wandering Archaic // Explore the Vastlands which I still need to get a copy of.

Oh, and Frostboil Snarl is most likely coming in for a mountain.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

So Reality Ripple is an absolutely killer card. I haven't been this excited about a discovery since IDK... never?

Reality Ripple is great because it is both an offensive and defense spell and excels at both roles. It performs the role of something like Flawless Maneuver while also being similar in power to something like Reality Shift. It is a swiss army knife spell that is efficient to cast. It's one of the few spells that solves the issue of board wipes and having Niv on the field. Offensively it can be used to shut down A LOT of infinite combos as well as simply turn off a problematic permanent for a full turn cycle.

Scorched Earth scratches a similar itch. I think this card has also earned a special place of respect in my list to be honest. I had nothing that dealt with utility lands quite at this level. I guess Chaos Warp can always deal with lands if absolutely needed but it felt like card-disadvantage to use it on a land. Or it can also stall a certain player if the rest of the table is behind. There are a lot of great utility lands and I think most decks should be slotting in spot removal for them.

Scorched Earth can also simply be "target player loses the game" .By blowing up enough lands or locking a player out of certain colors, this can completely shut someone out of the game if need be. It is a dastardly move, but unlike Armageddon the OPTION is there. This card only really works well in a deck that draws as many cards as this deck does.

Steal Enchantment is also a no brainer I think. Whenever I've drawn it there have been good targets on the field. It allows this deck to do things it shouldn't be able to do like have Smothering Tithe or a Mirari's Wake. Stealing something is almost always better than blowing it up.

Firestorm will replace Lightning Bolt beyond a doubt. I think this card is vastly underrated in our format. Sure, it only works in a deck like this, but it's really fantastic at what it does. Similar to Scorched Earth it has a useful low end of being a Forked Shock for only R and discard 2 cards. But at the high end it can simply be a win condition. If you are able to copy this spell on the stack with 20 or so targets, that should be GG. And that is absolutely perfect. I think to go along with this card I will slot in 1 or 2 copy spells to support it. Reiterate at the very least since I should be able to simply close out a game with the buyback.

Fade Away still needs more testing but so far I am actually missing Blasphemous Act in this slot as a hyper efficient sweeper. To be honest, most of the time creatures don't have indestructible. It's more important to actually take out everything, inluding my opponents best creatures. Although, I question if I need two sweepers in here. Magmaquake or Blashphemous act, but not both.
______________________________________________________________________

Moving forward, I'm actually looking at leaning even more heavily into rituals with Mana Geyser. The other rituals in the deck have been performing very well for me. I want to try keeping Past in Flames in the deck with these rituals hopefully to have some blowout turns. I'm taking out Gilded Lotus for now in place of Mana Geyser to see how it plays. Same cmc and I think Mana Geyser has the potential to be better in many situations.

Past in Flames I think works best with these sorts of rituals, otherwise I really struggle to have enough mana to utilize it.

Turnabout is another card I am potentially looking at in this role. Alongside cards like Reiterate and Past in Flames I think we can get some value. The more instants and sorceries I can maindeck the better as far as I'm concerned.

____________________________________________________________________________

Cards on the chopping block.

Flusterstorm - too many times I've realized this doesn't counter what I need it to counter or my opponent actually has enough mana up to pay the tax. I think this probably should just be a Fierce Guardianship

Sapphire Medallion - this card has actually been out of the deck for a while already. I just need to update the primer.

Merchant Scroll, Long-Term Plans - I guess I feel that both of these tutors are pretty lackluster. I'd almost always have something else in my hand.

Mizzix's Mastery - this doesn't allow me to pay alternative casting costs which can be annoying. I think it makes sense to run Past in Flames but not this one.

Lightning Bolt again, this was here for flavor and I think Firestorm will replace it in the primer.

Thirst for Knowledge, Thirst for Meaning - my higher cost looting effects I think are both coming out for other things.

Windfall - yup, windfall is a long standing card, but I find myself just not needing it. Dropping my handcycling spells by 1 hasn't felt like gimping the deck. I disliked the fact that Windfall often gave certain opponents an advantage and it doesn't work well when I myself have a lot of cards in hand. I think this is an easy swap.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

For my own thought process I want to mention a card and that card is Retraced Image. I would really love to make this work in here but after thinking about it, I think it's probably much too inconsistent to be early ramp. This would be perfect for a mono U spellslinger list. You would need about 28 islands to have a chance of pulling this off. Granted, I could also reveal a mountain with this but the chances again are pretty slim in my opening hand at least. I foresee myself just holding this in my hand waiting to draw into another island or mountain when I could be doing other things.

EDIT: I just re-read the card. This counts your opponents' permanents as well. That makes this A LOT better. Still risky, but the chances of my opponents having islands or mountains in play is fairly high. Would also work on something like Command Tower or Steam Vents in that case. hmmmm AND taking this a step further it would work for other common permanets as well. Mana rocks, Rhystic Study, etc... definitely worth a try

There is a possibility of me cutting some of my utility lands and dual lands to support it, but not sure that's worth it when I could just be running a mana rock. This is definitely stronger than a mana rock lategame since it will draw me cards and it's free.

I think I will give it a run anyway just to see if I can make it work. It's a very unique card. I like that this pays for itself lategame by being a free cantrip off Niv. It also has some neat synergy with Underworld Breach or Past in Flames.
____________________________________________________________________
Another card I want to mention is Gush. I am not certain this is the right deck for this card. I think you might have to be in green to fully utilize it, but still something I want to try.

What I like about Gush is that it's "free" draw. It also bounces Mystic Sanctuary. And for cards like Winds of Change, this can be really huge since you are fattening your initial handsize. With a draw doubler in play, you will be netting a lot more cards.

Another fringe benefit is that is fuels Scorched Earth as well as saves my own lands from destruction in a pinch.

Mainly what I don't like is its vanilla mana cost. This is a horrible card to have in your opening hand and that right there probably kills the card for me.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I've been thinking about how I might match up against a dedicated control deck and I suspect I might find myself lacking. I will likely be adding at least one more counterspell to the roster. I just purchased a Fierce Guardianship finally and I've slotted it in for Magmaquake for the time being. I'm also considering other counters including Delay, Memory Lapse, Tibalt's Trickery, Disallow, and maybe even a Trickbind. Remand could also be an option.

I like Wipe Away to deal with certain issues.

Uncounterable counters are also on my mind Overwhelming Denial as well as Counterflux.

Overmaster is a card I've considered. It's nice that this cantrips and maybe it could go in for a cheap looting effect.

I've also considered Mana Short. This can just be brutal against any deck and can basically be a 3 cmc Time Stop.

I'm currently not playing against any dedicated control lists in my playgroup, so this is mainly just paranoia / thought experiment. Of course Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast would come in!

______________________________________________________________________________________

In other news, Consecrated Sphinx is starting to feel a bit cumbersome. I've noticed at more competetive tables, it just doesn't really work. It either just eats removal or worse, gets Treacheryed. I like the idea of cutting this for the sake of streamlining the deck. 6 cmc is a lot and I honestly don't need it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Speaking of Treachery, I really wish I had one. Untapping lands is just so broken and theft is often a better answer than removal. I get why everyone who can afford it, plays Gilded Drake.

Something that might be interesting is Act of Aggression. I like this card. Being an instant there are some good plays to be made with it. Technically at just 3 mana it can be pretty efficient to cast.

Word of Seizing seems pretty decent as well since it can grab any permanent for a turn. 5cmc is fairly steep.

There is also Entrancing Melody and Dominate. I like that both of these are indefinite and have the flexibility to be cast for less.

Commandeer is an old classic I might also consider.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Finally updating the Primer with all my recent swaps, post testing. I'll do my best to explain my reasoning here.

PRIMER CHANGES


5/29/22

Lightning Bolt => Firestorm - Firestorm has a lot more potential to be a blowout spell lategame while still being efficient removal early on. It's really a fantastic card for this deck. If I can manage to copy it on the stack it can simply be a win condition.

Mizzix's Mastery => Reiterate - So the thing is. Mizzix's Mastery doesn't allow us to pay alternative casting costs because they are being cast without paying their mana costs. This is bad if we are trying to combo off with Comet Storm. It's also all or nothing, so Comet Storm gets exiled regardless as does everything else. Early game, i just never liked seeing it because I often didn't have much in my graveyard. It's stricly a lategame spell unless you are trying to cast large spells in our graveyard early on, which we typically don't have. Reiterate on the other hand is a little more flexible. Early game it can be used to copy a ramp spell or a tutor, lategame it makes infinite mana. This honestly has been in and out, but right now it's in because I have quite a few rituals and will probably be adding more.

Thirst for Meaning => Insight - Insight often is a second copy of Rhystic Study in my playgroup. There is usually at least one player running green sometimes more. Overall this is a superb enchantment. Passive draw is just really strong in this deck. Thirst for meaning was often a bit high on the cmc for what it does compared to things like Careful Study or Faithless Looting.

Magmaquake ==> Steal Enchantment - I think Magmaquake is a fantastic spell, however I really don't think we need further redundancy in the creature hate zone aside All is Dust, Cyclonic Rift and Blasphemous Act . I find it more versatile to steal a valuable enchantment. There should be good targets for enchantment theft at about any point in the game.

Merchant Scroll ==> Reality Ripple - I just felt like Scroll wasn't doing enough for me. Sure it grabs Cyclonic Rift but I find myself just wishing I had something else in hand. Reality Ripple is the epitome of a "swiss army knife spell". It does something very unique in that it saves Niv from board wipes while still letting them resolve. Then it can be used in a variety of situations more offensively as well.

Rielle, the Everwise ==> Scorched Earth - So this might come as a surprise to some, but not others. Rielle had a good run, but ultimately I'm a purist. I don't want a single creature other than Niv himself in the deck. And there are actually logical reasons for this. 1. Creatures don't trigger his ability 2. Creatures are "delayed value" most of the time and are very vulnerable to removal. More so than artifacts or enchantments. Many times, Rielle simply got killed before I really got a chance to use her, OR I drew her too late in the game to be useful. Scorched Earth is a fantastic spell to my mind and I think it really rounds out my removal. It can also knock people back to the stone age if required.

Consecrated Sphinx ==> Mana Geyser - Another long standing player leaves the team. I think this deck has finally outgrown this card. It's a big investment that again, is supremely vulnerable to removal or theft. It swings the tables attention toward me in a big way and sometimes a simple Faithless Looting actually draws me more cards. Mana Geyser I think is a no brainer here. It plays so well with Underworld Breach and Past in Flames. I'm not sure how long it will stay in but for now I think it works. I wish Wizards would give us more rituals.

Flusterstorm ==> Fierce Guardianship - I felt like Flustertorm was one of my weaker counterspells for the fact that it just doesn't work great in my playgroup. Only hitting instants and sorceries felt too narrow. I don't think anyone will argue the power of Fierce Guardianship and I think it will pull it's price tag here as well. Protecting Niv being foremost in that role, but also the flexibility to deal with other types of problems.

Windfall ==> Tibalt's Trickery - Running without Windfall has been fine. It's not needed. I think the drawback of my opponents drawing to large hands is too risky to be consistently good. Tibalt's Trickery is just a fun card to play. Having a purely red counterspell I think is neat and actually with all the red rituals, having something to cast in response that doesn't cost blue I think is a good thing.

Sapphire Medallion ==> Ponder - This being a two color deck with a fairly healthy dose of red, I found the Medallion to be a little inconsistent. Eventually I want a Mana Crypt but I'm not there yet. For now I'm simply going to run Ponder.

Thirst for Knowledge ==> Preordain - Now that Rielle is out, I have less desire to be discarding, however the real reason this is coming out is that it simply isn't efficient. Early game we need things to do, and lategame I will either have a draw doubler or Niv in play or both so Preordain becomes a lot better.

Serum Visions - Pretty sure I was short a card, so I'm adding this to bring it up to 100. These cheap draw spells are pretty stellar simply because Niv and the draw doublers turn them into bombs late game, and early game they give me something to do on turn 1.


Moving forward, I will be testing Retraced Image in place of Izzet Signet and seeing if I can get it consistent enough by swapping out a few utility lands and duals for basics. With all the card quality and draw spells I think it might actually work.

Mana Geyser needs more testing as well. It's not great early game but can lead to some blowout wins that don't rely on me having a ton of cards in hand unlike Inner Fire.

I'm also looking at Extract, Overmaster, and possibly a big draw spell like Pull from Tomorrow or Recurring Insight .
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

I think I'm in favor of the changes that you've made. They have sound reasoning behind all of them and they're good inclusions. I particularly like your discovery of Firestorm for the deck as a way to get leverage at different stages of the game. Great include for this particular deck! I think the inclusion of the u-cantrips is fantastic because an active Niv makes them Card Advantage positive for the lowest cost.

Of the cards you're considering, I strongly recommend Pull from Tomorrow. It can be found via Spellseeker and doesn't have a huge mana requirement from colored mana to fire off. It's also an instant speed spell and with an active Niv on board can actually turn into a straight removal spell/burn to the face if needed. It does excellent work in my Kalamax decklist, so I heartily recommend it to you if you're looking for a swap!

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I find myself wondering if 1 cmc cantrips and utility spells are worth considering over Opt, Ponder, Serum Visions and Preordain.

Yes, you get more value from the latter early game, but lategame they aren't exactly that helpful unless I'm top-decking which I shouldn't (hopefully won't) be.

When I say 1 drop cantrips, I'm talking about cards like the following:
They have a significant utility lategame while still just essentially cycling themselves early game. They are also nice targets for recursion later on since they are so cheap and again have that added utility.

To a similar degree I have been liking 1 cmc spells even without a cantrip simply because paying 1 to draw 1 card isn't a horrible rate with Niv in play. Play a card draw a card is always going to be strong.

Brand - occasionally one of my draw doublers or Niv will get stolen. probably a pretty niche effect but the fact it has cycling makes it slightly more apealing. It's a unique effect.

Extract - my playgroup certainly runs combos. there is always a good target in every game I play for this. Removing Food Chain, Omniscience, Enchanted Evening, Craterhoof, etc... before my openent even has a chance to draw it seems powerful for just one U.

Chain of Vapor - I'm beginning to see how good this card can be, especially in a deck that runs so few permanents. I think if played smart it can be a two for 1 as well. In a pich I can use it to bounce my own draw doubler or Niv to protect him from removal.

Abjure - probably not consistent enough in this deck since I don't run that many permanents, but still a neat card.

Suspend - new card that I really like, this could be considered a second copy of Reality Shift which has been playing great for me.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I have some tentative swaps to annouce, let me know your thoughts:

Fabricate --> Pull from Tomorrow - I see the value of having at least this one draw x spell. Primarily this is due the inclusion of more rituals in the deck. Mana Geyser can help this become - "draw 20 cards" I think fabricate has become a lot more limited as I transition to more ritual based mana. Sure, it can get archive, but honestly I'd rather just have the card advantage since I now have enough redundancy to the archive.

Izzet Signet --> Retraced Image This probably still needs a lot more testing, but so far it's been good. I really like unique spells like this. The more instants and sorceries we can include the better.

Tolaria West --> Island - I know others have mentioned it before, but Retraced Image really pushed me to maximize my islands. It's a good thing for High Tide as well as Mystic Sanctuary. With all the red rituals we can lean a bit heavier into blue for our lands.

Gilded Lotus --> Chain of Vapor - So, recently my philosphy on this deck has been changing. I've been noticing sometimes it's better to simply have an answer than to ramp. Gilded Lotus can sometimes be too much of a liability in terms of the fact it can easily be removed or stolen and it's a big investment. Having answers early game is important, and chain of vapor gives us exactly that. It has been nice to just answer early threats and slowly build up my own board state.


That's basically it I guess, other than I am also testing Extract and Overmaster in place Serum Visions and Opt.

I also want to explore alternatives to Pact of Negation. A free counter is a free counter, but the cost is sometimes crippling. It can mean that I have to take a whole turn off to answer a threat. This deck has shifted away from being a fast combo deck to being a inexorable midrange control build and I'm not sure Pact still fits.

There are a ton of good alternatives, but I have been intrigued by the possibilties of including something like Disallow, Trickbind, or Stifle.
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

I actually just cut Chain of Vapor from my Kalamax list because too many times people were copying it and bouncing my Commander to hand, which often resulted in a time walk against me. So if you do include it, just be aware of the ability to have it backfire spectacularly in your face. I replaced it with Snap, which has been MUCH better, and I think it would be a great card that fits more in line with your strategy of being more mid-Range in nature.

I approve of the Fabricate switch. Pull from Tomorrow has overperformed for my Kalamax deck (which is my closest analog to the core strategy of what you're doing, hence my continual reference to it) so I think you'll get even better mileage out of it since it can turn into a pseudo-board wipe with an active Niv in play.

We've already discussed Retraced Image in my Memnarch thread, but I think it's a perfect fit for you. If possible, I think cutting a different mana rock would be better since Signet provides two colors and helps convert colorless or red ritual mana into blue mana.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

benjameenbear wrote:
2 years ago
I actually just cut Chain of Vapor from my Kalamax list because too many times people were copying it and bouncing my Commander to hand, which often resulted in a time walk against me. So if you do include it, just be aware of the ability to have it backfire spectacularly in your face. I replaced it with Snap, which has been MUCH better, and I think it would be a great card that fits more in line with your strategy of being more mid-Range in nature.
Yeah, I can see the potential to backfire, but I am wondering if the upsides outway that. Often, I don't actually have Niv in play, especially in the first 6 turns or so. When Niv hits the field, it's usually GG for my opponents. What I don't like about Snap is that it can only hit creatures. There are some other options which I find attractive: Into the Roil, Boomerang, Blink of an Eye. I think I just like how efficient Chain of Vapor is and I really don't see most players wanting to sacrifice lands early in the game.

I actually wanted a way to bounce my own draw doubler if I find myself in danger of nuking my library. It does happen occasionally, especially if I need to wheel to win. (Comet Storm get's exiled or just isn't available) Chain of Vapor is the absolute most efficient way to do that.

Another niche benefit to cards like Chain of Vapor is that they can return ownership of permanents that have been stolen which tends to happen frequently in my group. Also it solves something like Imprisoned in the Moon in a pinch where as Snap doesn't. I also have the option to target the permanent that's enchanted, so I can copy Chain of Vapor myself.

And finally the last thing that I like about it is the ability to bounce mana positive rocks. I don't have a mana crypt yet, but it's the ideal combo card for chain of vapor: play mana crypt for 0. Tap for 2. Cast Chain of Vapor targeting Mana crypt. Replay Mana crypt, tap for 2. All of a sudden you just essentially ritualed for 4 with just U. If you also have a sol ring, you can sac the island you used to play chain of vapor and bounce Sol Ring as well. I think that would be like 6.

You might very well be right about it, but I want to give it a thorough test run.
benjameenbear wrote:
2 years ago
I approve of the Fabricate switch. Pull from Tomorrow has overperformed for my Kalamax deck (which is my closest analog to the core strategy of what you're doing, hence my continual reference to it) so I think you'll get even better mileage out of it since it can turn into a pseudo-board wipe with an active Niv in play.
Yeah, I just like having a mana sink like this for my red rituals. It's too bad Mana Geyser and Inner Fire aren't instants. I also like that Pull from Tomorrow is castable early. X = 2 or 3 in a pinch isn't the end of the world.
benjameenbear wrote:
2 years ago
We've already discussed Retraced Image in my Memnarch thread, but I think it's a perfect fit for you. If possible, I think cutting a different mana rock would be better since Signet provides two colors and helps convert colorless or red ritual mana into blue mana.
Yeah, you might be right there. Plus we just got that nifty secret lair version.

What are your thoughts on Overmaster and Extract? Probably would have to go in for the single U draw spells. I was thinking Opt and Serum Visions since they don't dig as deep as some of the others. If I could run 4x Faithless Lootings I would!

Oh, and then there's the question of Pact of Negation. Are there better alternatives? Archmage's Charm has peaked my interest again. Triple blue seems bad, but the flexibility.... i wonder if this is bad for this deck for the same reasons that Cryptic Command is bad. I would also consider Disallow.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

For the last year or so I've been trying to find ways to cut both Inner Fire and Comet Storm and feel ok about it. They aren't great cards outside of the win con (downright bad actually), and i will be the first to admit that.

Mana Geyser has been excellent. By the time i can cast this, it is guaranteed to generate plenty of red mana, whereas Inner Fire is most likely going only net me 1-2 mana early to mid game. if im lucky! Main benefit here is that it reliably nets me more mana than it takes to cast it. I can use it outside of the win con for an explosve turn or to draw a ton of cards off Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn or Pull from Tomorrow.

Now lets talk about Reiterate. This is actually worth holding mana up for generally speaking. Early game copying someone's ramp spell is fantastic. It can also copy removal and be an anti-counter in a pinch, so this certainly has utility outside of being a win condition and obviously it excells at that, creating infinite R with both Mana Geyser and Jeska's Will (occasionally)

What do we do with that infinite mana? Well, you actually have infinite COPIES of any spell with Reiterate since it has buyback. You ALSO have infinite draw with Niv on the field so you can go ahead and dig up your win condition. I think a perfect target at that point is Firestorm. This card has also played very well for me. It is a great little spot removal tool and has on occasion done a ton of damage while wiping the field. HOWEVER, there are plenty of viable targets for the infinite copies in the deck already. Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge so you can use whatever you have access to.

I feel that with these three latter cards, i can cut the two former. I will certainly be testing this and reporting back.

Underworld Breach and Past in Flames both play a pivotal role here in recurring all of these cards from my graveyard as well as assisting in gaining infinite mana. Without them, i usually won't have enough mana to actually combo off as I need to have enough mana to both cast Mana Geyser and Reiterate with the buyback. 11 mana total.

NOTE: buyback doesn't work with flashback. You get two replacement effects on the stack, no matter which you let resolve first, the flashback will exile the card. So using Past in Flames with Reiterate in the graveyard doesn't go infinite. It has to be in your hand.


Freeing up 2 slots here for most likely RAMP is going to be huge.


Prismari Command is a card i have my eye on and probably deserves to be tested. I like my draw to be efficient. When I compare it to good ole Izzet Charm im skeptical, however, for just 1 more colorless you get an additional mode. The fact that this is actually kinda sorta ramp is probably what intrigues me the most. Destroying an artifact is also a nice option.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

INNISTRAD: MIDNIGHT HUNT set review


Moonveil Regent -wow what a dragon. This doesn't make the cut in my list because I'm not running creatures, however just wow! I think this will find it's way into a lot of decks.

Memory Deluge as the rare draw spell for the set, this deserves a mention, but it's certainly not something i would run simply because it costs too much mana. I'll stick with my one-drops.

Geistflame Reservoir This is a little damage battery card as well as some card advantage. I think it could go well in the right deck but I don't think we need this.

Cathartic Pyre -This has some merit simply because it can also be a lightning bolt if I need it to be. I would compare it most closely to Thrill of Possibility but I think it's a slightly nerfed version since you have to discard 2 cards instead of 1. When compared to Cathartic Reunion I think it is also worse. I don't know, its worth consideration for the added flexibility of removal, but not sure it's worth it.

Electric Revelation - Lots of new looting effects in this set! I guess that's appropriate since Faithless Looting came from Innistrad originally. I think for 3 mana we can do better. It's great that this has flashback, but when I compare it to faithless, it's really bad.

Otherworldly Gaze This card has potential!! For a common this is a lot of power in my opinion. Sure, you aren't gaining any card advantage but stacking the top of your deck this deep for just U at instant speed is great! The fact that it has flashback is fantastic. I will likely be giving this a run. With Niv is play this is close in power to brainstorm, if not better.

Consider This is a better Opt in my opinion and will likely be coming in. Cards in the graveyard are psuedo card advantage.

Galvanic Iteration You know this isn't terrible, but Increasing Vengeance is probably better. Twincast and Reverberate are better still and I don't run those cards for the reason that in a vacuum they do nothing. I think copy spells work better in a deck where the commander actually gives you some card advantage - maybe Melek, Izzet Paragon

Arcane Infusion Are the izzet ivading Innistrad? What is this?



In summary, i think Consider and Otherworldly Gaze have the most potential to be good here, with the possibility of Cathartic Pyre. Efficient draw is really the bread and butter of this deck, so that's most often what catches my eye.

The thing I am most excited for however, are these gorgeous basic lands!!

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I rely fairly heavily on my commander. He swings the game in my favor pretty fast if i can get him out and make him stick. To that end, ive been considering some of the treasure producing instants and sorceries here as "rituals" I'm also wondering if these are strictly better than some of the traditional red rituals I'm already running. @darrenhabib @benjameenbear maybe you guys have experience with these cards?

NOTE: I know Dockside Extortionist is stupidly good, but im sticking to my guns here on not running creatures. Plus, he's not cheap. I have a copy but im using him in my Jund creature feature deck. Hullbreacher would have been of course broken here, but that's not longer an option.


Strike It Rich - With this alone, I could be casting niv on turn 4. The other red rituals only give me one additional mana, which equates to a turn 5 niv barring other ramp. I think this is one of the best choices available for this particular deck.

Prismari Command This is likely coming in as an upgrade to Izzet Charm. Because you get 2 modes, the second mode could always be a treasure token if i need it to be.

Sudden Breakthrough, Depths of Desire, Hornswoggle, Improvised Weaponry - while all being 3 cmc, these seem of pretty limited use and not the best choices. 3 cmc for only one treasure essentially isn't the best rate.

I think if I were to design a treasure producing card it would be something like this:
SPOILER
Show
Hide
XRR
Instant

Discard X cards. Draw cards equal to the number of cards discarded this way and create that many treasure tokens.

Pirate's Prize, Seize the Spoils, Pirate's Pillage -pretty similar cards. Could be potentially swapped in place of some of my other cheap draw. I like the loot + treasure effect since it does what i need to be doing early in the game.

Unexpected Windfall - this one is actually pretty good as well.

Visions of Ruin - ok, so in a standard game with 3 opponents, this is likely to make at least 2 treasures, possibly 3. Flashback is helpful and with our 6 cmc commander, we will be able to cast the flashback for 4. Not bad. As artifact removal, it's not the best when we compare to thingsl like Vandalblast or Rebuild, but the versatility of also being ramp is intriguing. It's worth noting that the treasure you make on the first cast can be used to pay for the flashback - so in an ideal scenario, you pay 4, get 3 treasures, then pay 4 again (using the previous 3 treasures) and make 3 more treasures - 8 investment, 6 treasures = 2 mana to kill 6 artifacts if my math is right.

Spell Swindle probably too high of cmc. I don't want to be holding up this much mana for a counter most of the time.

Brass's Bounty not likely to be good here. Due to the cmc, this doesn't ramp us into niv.

Trove of Temptation - probably should be mentioned since the rate of return on this is pretty good in theory. I think the forced attack is probably dangerous though since we don't have blockers.
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

I'm actually considering Unexpected Windfall for my Kalamax deck, since the spell refunds itself with a tapped Kalamax trigger, so I think it would be a powerful addition for that list which makes it worth consideration as a standalone card as well.

Of the red Treasure rituals you mention (since Dockside is off the table for you), I think Strike It Rich and Windfall would be the best options for you. 1 CMC spells are extremely powerful with an active Niv and the Windfall's instant speed-ness makes it very appealing, so those are the two that I'd recommend personally for your list.

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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

Any particular feedback with the Treasure cards for this deck? I know you mentioned that they've been pretty good for you, and I'm interested to hear some examples/stories!

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

benjameenbear wrote:
2 years ago
Any particular feedback with the Treasure cards for this deck? I know you mentioned that they've been pretty good for you, and I'm interested to hear some examples/stories!
I like Prismari Command quite a bit for its flexibility. I'm generally happy with running this instead of Izzet Charm since I mostly use charm for the looting effect.

Strike It Rich and Unexpected Windfall have probably been the best in terms of ramp. They are both solid rituals in my opinion, and I really hope we get some similar cards down the line.

Their ability to color fix as well as trigger niv almost for free later in the game I think make them really great picks IMO. I have another big overhaul on the way including these rituals and some other cards that I've been testing.

Visions of Ruin needs more testing. I have favorable thoughts about it still as I think it can occupy both a removal slot and a ramp slot. In most cases I should be able to get at least 2 treasures out of it, which is enough to accelerate into Niv next turn. The fact that it has flashback for the same cost gives me some options later in the game.

As for the other ones, such as Pirate's Pillage I don't think they are good enough for the mana investment. I could be down with a loot + treasure that cost 2, or something that had the conditional ability to make more treasures...

1R
Sorcery
As additional cost, discard a card.
Create 2 treasure tokens. Draw a card.

2RR
Instant
Create a Treasure token for each tapped creature target player controls.

1RB
Instant
Until end of turn, whenever you discard a card, create a treasure token.
Last edited by RowanKeltizar 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

INNISTRAD: CRIMSON set review


Alchemist's Gambit pretty neat card, but I'm not running extra turns here.

Consuming Tide I may end up giving this a try. It's no cyclonic rift, but it also doesn't hit Niv. It's also VERY efficient for a bounce everything board wipe. Not to mention it will usually draw us a couple cards. I like it, but I'm sad it's not an instant or at least doesn't have the option to be cast as an instant.

Change of Fortune This thing is pretty neat, however I think it really suffers from not being an instant. I think it could be a good card in the right scenario. At 4, it's a little on the high side for a wheel effect when you compare it to things like Tolarian Winds and Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge . Overall, i like the card I think it will see some play.

Wash Away - is this a one mana counter for commanders?

Stormcarved Coast I think these lands are great for casual commander, especially 3-5 color decks. Will I run this land? Eh, I might. I don't really need any more dual lands to be honest and I want to keep my island count high. It might go in for a regular mountain if I have any left to swap out.


Also wanted to mention I am testing Cleansing Wildfire. I think this card is fantastic and might even go in for Scorched Earth. While it doesn't have a high ceiling it can more easily be cast eary, whereas Scorched Earth tends to sit in my hand.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I think it's finally time to update the primer with some of my recent changes. These changes are pretty significant and mark a distinct point in history for the deck. I am finally dropping Inner Fire and Comet Storm which has been my default win-con for the last 10 years or so.

As explained previously, I find that in combination with Mana Geyser Reiterate and Firestorm I have a powerful win con that I feel is consistent enough to replace the old standby. These cards are more useful and consistent on their own, and most importantly useful earlier in the game.

I am also slotting in the "treasure based rituals" I find this to be a huge improvement for the deck as early mana acceleration was one of my weakest points. Getting Niv on the table early with counterspell backup is always going to be a great thing for the deck to do as Niv is one of our strongest draw engines. All of these spells also have some utility later in the game, unlike mana rocks which are pretty dead draws late game.

CHANGELOG - 11/19/21



Inner Fire ==> Unexpected Windfall - Windfall is a great spell. On it's own, it will reliably allow me to cast Niv on turn 5 and in combination with artifact ramp, on turn 4. That's fantastic.

Comet Storm ==> Chain of Vapor - Chain of Vapor has been playing great for me. It's one of the best bounce spells early game as no-one is willing to sacrifice lands. We also run so few of our own permanents it sometimes is truly one-sided since we have nothing to target on our own side of the battlefield. It stops early wins and slows down folks who accelerate too fast. It also has the fringe benefit of ritualing with mana positive rocks as well as protecting my own permanents from destruction or theft.

Tolaria West ==> Urza's Saga - @darrenhabib will be happy to see this one. Finally swapping this out because Urza's Saga is just better. I can still get Chrome Mox with it if I need colors, but otherwise getting Sensei's Divining Top or Sol Ring is always going to be a better play.

Fabricate ==> Pull from Tomorrow - Pull from Tomorrow has been pulling it's weight. I'm normally against draw x spells, but somehow this manages to be good enough. I think it's because I have so many rituals now. It's also much better in a vacuum when I just need to refill my hand mid-game and don't have access to a draw doubler.

Izzet Charm ==> Prismari Command - I generally feel this to be a straight upgrade. Prismari Command can actually ramp me and has the fringe benefit of hitting artifacts if I need it to.

Scorched Earth ==> Cleansing Wildfire - While scorched earth definitely is awesome at certain points in the game, I just noticed I was holding onto it for far too long waiting for the best moment. Oftentimes, early in the game I actually don't have enough spare lands to discard (im already running very few lands as it is). Cleansing Wildfire is good at any point in the game. The cantrip makes it absolutely great. In a pinch I can even use this as a psuedo Harrow allowing me to color fix.

Pact of Negation ==> Archmage's Charm - pact was just turning into a liability. I am viewing it more as a purely CEDH card where you never get to the point of paying it's pact cost. I mostly play casual commander, and I feel it just doesn't fit anymore. Charm is a much more versatile card despite it's triple U. Stealing a Sol Ring early game or just drawing cards is far more useful.

Long-Term Plans ==> Visions of Ruin I'm just never happy to see long-term plans. When you compare it to something like a Vampiric Tutor it really sucks, maybe that's why? In theory, it good, but I just never like casting it. Probably because it doesn't have an immediate effect on the gamestate. It also requires time and setup to gain benefit from. Visions of Ruin I think is good enough for the primer. This has the potential to ramp us into Niv on turn 5 with interaction backup and that's great.

Seething Song ==> Strike It Rich - for a while i had been testing Retraced Image in this slot, but then I realized that Strike It Rich more or less accomplishes the same thing, albeit more reliable early game. Seething Song felt a bit too clunky. It makes more red mana than I really need and requires 3 to cast, meaning that it actually isn't that effective in accelerating in Niv unless I have Sol Ring in play. While Strike it Rich may not stay in for the long haul (because it is fairly limited in what it does), I do appreciate the little bit of colored ramp it provides. By itself, it allows for a turn 4 Niv, which is nothing to scoff at.


Looking toward the future:

I want to spruce up the primer. I think some of my language and philosophy is a little out of date and doesn't accurately reflect where I am currently with the deck. There are also a ton of typos i need to fix.


The aggro problem

As my list has become even faster and more consistent, my playgroup tends to hard target me with their aggro. 40 life doesn't seem like much when creatures are hitting you left and right and I have no blockers. My meta tends to be extremely aggro heavy. My existing removal is sometimes not enough to alleviate the hate even if I'm wiping the field every other turn.

I would like to find some cards that can delay creature damage, negate it, or turn it toward my opponents instead.

Getting Niv into play early has been my primary goal simply because he's a good blocker and his burn can help take out a few creatures that are heading my way.

I've thought about slotting Propaganda back in at times, but being a permanent makes it vulnerable to removal. I just don't feel it's going to be reliable in this deck. Same goes for things like Crawlspace.

Simply swapping in more interaction also crosses my mind. Illusionist's Gambit and Consuming Tide are both pretty attractive to me. However, I really like my board wipes to hit EVERYTHING if possible and to circumvent industructible or hexproof.

Running more recursion is also an option. Getting multiple uses out of my removal spells seems good. Shreds of Sanity still seems to be the best one when it comes to recursion I'm not already running.

Then there's the question of just stealing my opponents' best creatures, mostly to use as blockers. This is best done at instant speed and permanently. Something like Dominate would be great. I just wish it had storm or cost less. Paying ten mana for Elesh Norn for example isn't realistic. Even paying 5 for a 2 drop doesn't feel great. Mass Manipulation is also a card but that mana cost, sheesh.

Temporary theft at instant speed is also a thing, Act of Aggression is the first one that comes to mind.

I'm just not sure the best route to go here... but im going to be trying different strategies.


Other stuff:


Jeweled Lotus Pretty dumb card, but I honestly question if I should try to get one. Getting Niv into play early is just so helpful. A great way to make yourself archenemy though.

Deflecting Swat is a maybe something I should consider. However, this is very similar to Misdirection which I've never really liked.

I think Consider is a great cheap draw spell and I'd like to find room for it.


What's currently on the chopping block?

Coalition Relic and Gilded Lotus The mana rocks that cost more than 2 just seem clunky at this point. They are relatively big investments that are vulnerable to artifact hate or theft. I would like to find better options if possible.

Past in Flames Sure, getting this + Reiterate and Mana Geyser is a great play, but I absolutely hate seeing it early because of the cmc. It plays into my win con because being able to cast it from my graveyard is pretty key. If I can find something else that works better I will slot it in. Flashback can be a drawback because it exiles the spells you cast. I've run into this problem a few times with Reiterate and others. The more cards I have that are useful early, the better.

Serum Visions I actually think Consider is better, will probaby swap.
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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RowanKeltizar
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Posts: 531
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

I'm doing a little experiment for the sake of SCIENCE! I swapped in all of the following:
I just want to see if running more creature hate helps this deck succeed in my environment. I also want to see which of these cards I like and which ones I don't. Yes, I'm also still running my other board wipes! I swapped these in for some of the counters and some of the other targeted removal spells for the sake of testing.

I will say I am drawn to the 4 cmc removal already, but we will see how this plays out. My playgroup will be... annoyed.

As a primer I always advocate running the answers and control that suits your own meta rather than defaulting to something just because its "the best" There is no best answer for removal and control cards. My meta is typically fast to mid range aggro with a smattering of combo thrown in.

Basilisk Collar is also something that's crossed my mind. Not just for the "ping something it's dead" shenanigans but also for the lifegain. I can tutor for it with Urza's Saga. Generally I have been against the card because it's a dead draw from turn 1 to turn 5 or so and even then, not being able to attach it to any other creature in the deck (because there are none) is pretty bad.
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

Don't forget about Rolling Earthquake. Basically 0 creatures it doesn't hit, you can cast it pre-Niv to wipe the field of the smaller, ubiquitous utility creatures that get in for chip damage and act as engines, and can also be a win condition if you have enough mana and a larger life total than your opponents.

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