The Scarab God zombie tokens (Help wanted)

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Hey

I have a Scarab God deck, but I don't think it's strong enough and would like some constructive criticism. Hopefully some changes that won't cost too much money hehe.

I used to have it as a mix between all the traits that make the Scarab God good. Zombie tribal, tokens, mill and the Scarab God himself. But I have recently tweaked it to be more focused on spawning zombie tokens and cheaper zombies to get Scarab God life drain triggers.
My deck is simply just too slow and doesn't produce enough zombies. The guys in my play group basically think Scarab God is at the level I want it to be, but it feels very slow and underpowered hehe. So they take out Scarab God and then I'm pretty %$#%.

So I guess my problems are:
- Always feel I need more mana
- I need more zombies
- Need more card draw
- Maybe more board wipes if I'm against a lot of flying

What changes would you make to this deck?
Simto's %$#% Scarab God

Commander

Planeswalker

Tutor

Approximate Total Cost:

DECKLIST UPDATED 20/03-20
Last edited by Simto 4 years ago, edited 6 times in total.

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

I would be more than happy to help you with your deck. I've wanted to build zombie tribal for a while now, but not sure that's ever going to happen. I already have too many decks as it is!

So, I don't think you need more zombie creature cards. You've got 27 currently. My feeling is that trimming those to about 20 would allow more space for what you are lacking. You also have a ton of non-creature cards that produce zombies.

Self mill and reanimation I think is a strong direction to go with zombies, especially with your commander's ability. Also, card draw. Finding the right draw spells will help you A LOT.

If you could organize your list by function, rather than by card type you should have an easier time making cuts. Functions being: Draw, ramp, tutors, removal, control, zombies, recursion (reanimation), and lands. You will find there is a number of each that feels right for the deck. After that I can give you more specific suggestions.
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Thanks man!
Yeah, zombies are just a classic tribe and they're a lot of fun to play (I also love the mono black zombie decks standard used to have and now in Pioneer too, even if it's underpowered hehe)

I have split the deck up into catagories now as you suggested. I could split it up a little bit more if needed.

My initial thoughts to improving the deck would be to buy Grave Titan, Lich Lord of Unx, Dread Summons, Zombie Master, Lord of the Undead and Field of the dead, but I'm not really in a position to buy more cards. Especially pricey ones... Would love Grave Titan hehe.
I do have a bunch of cards I can swap in and out though.

I'm also trying to keep the mana cost as low as possible since the deck is very mana intensive and always feels starved.

Would you remove zombies to add more card draw spells? I'm at 24 zombie creatures and 3 non zombie. I'm actually thinking Liliana, Heretical Healer and Josu Vess, Lich Knight could be swapped out for something else.
Liliana is a nice card, but doesn't do as much as I want it to and Josu... I need so much mana to kick him, but I don't think I want to swap him out until I have actually managed to kick him in a game hehe. But definitley a contender.

Tombstone Stairwell is also an "easy" swap. I usually like having one or two "this card would be fun for a little chaos in a commander game" in my decks and this is one. My brain says "swap it" but it's also fun hehe.
It has been stuck in my hands a few times though due to the mana intensity of the deck.

I don't think I want to go down on counterspells and as a matter of fact, adding one more would probably be good since Scarab God himself is always a massive hate target.
I used to have Whispersilk Cloak in the deck to protect Scarab God and start beating people down with him, but I took it out in favour of more zombies.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here so any thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated :) I want them to cower in fear when Scarab God's on the table hehe.

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

Great, thanks for reorganizing. That looks a lot better! So I want you to take my recommendations with a grain of salt because I haven't actually played the deck, however I do have some good deck building experience which usually seems to hold true. I'm not necessarily going to tell you exactly what to swap for what. That's your choice. I'm going to list a bunch of cards that I think would make the deck more powerful, and then list some cards I think you can cut.

I hear that your budget is a concern and that is ultimately going to limit the deck's power level. I will make recommendations with that in mind. My suggestions to you regarding this: TRADE- you probably have some tradestock, see if you can make some mutually beneficial deals with your playgroup. Many of the cards I am about to suggest don't cost that much relatively. SAVE - put aside 5-10 dollars from every paycheck into a "fun fund" use this money to purchase cards for your deck. You deserve to have a little pleasure in life. SELL - host a garage sale, or put things up for sale online? Maybe you have a lot of useless crap laying around like me? IDK... just an idea.

Having a fun and powerful commander deck is a great pleasure and worth a bit of sacrifice!

So here are a few goals I think you can aim for.
  1. Try to reduce your average CMC. It is of course OK to have a few high cost spells, but in my experience you want to limit the cards that are 6cmc or over to around five or less. Your target average non-land cmc should be 3 or less unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. Yes, Rooftop Storm is amazing and lets you cast zombies for free, but can you get it into play every game? It's true that you should prioritize zombie creature cards over other things partially for that synergy, but you still want to go as low of a cmc as you can whenever you can.
  2. Get your mana generation spells up to at least 10. I've found that to be a pretty magic number when it comes to ramp spells. Of course, the more focused you become, you can increase that even more but I find 10 to be a good goal. You already some some great cost-reducing spells and you might count those as being a part of this category, but I would still add more. The more aggressive you can be, the better.

    Here's what I would consider:
    Coalition Relic - this costs three and can potentially tap for 2 colored. Very good.
    Worn Powerstone - a lot of people don't like it but mana is mana. Good budget ramp IMO
    Chromatic Lantern - even for 2 color decks, I find this to be really good.
    Ashnod's Altar - this can generate you some serious mana. You should get one as soon as you can afford it.
    Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, Nyx Lotus - higher on the curve, but these will pack a punch
    Heartless Summoning - this card performs GREAT in the right decks. I think this might be one of them. If you decide to go wide, I think this will help you a lot. If you do decide to go this route, Heartless Summoning could make Skullclamp viable because now your zombie tokens are clampable. Just a thought.
    Cabal Ritual, Dark Ritual - rituals usually aren't great in commander, but I think you can find a way to abuse these by recurring them from your graveyard. You can use them to get key pieces out earlier.
    Black Market - this card is truly insane. Notably, the counters don't go away when you use them.
  3. Run more tutors Tutors help make your deck more consistent. They let you get those key pieces more reliably. I aim for about 5 tutor spells. Here are the best options for you:
    Fabricate, Whir of Invention - I think you will have enough artifacts to justify running these.
    Muddle the Mixture - a pet favorite of mine. This is a great budget tutor because it is also a counterspell. The 2cmc covers a lot of bases as well.
    Ethereal Usher - this will tutor for anything 6cmc. Notably, Rooftop Storm. This is an incredibly budget option, and I would use it unless you can't afford anything else.
    Long-Term Plans - pretty good budget tutor. With some good draw spells you can get the card quicker. Plans is an instant which makes it a lot better than you might otherwise think.
    Lim-Dûl's Vault - Essentially a slightly less efficient Vampiric Tutor.
    Diabolic Intent - you will probably find that lot of your creatures want to die. This can be a great semi-budget tutor.
    Mystical Tutor - pretty cheap right now. Definitely worth getting
    Entomb, Buried Alive - if you are running any kind of reanimation, these are auto-includes IMO
    Scheming Symmetry - In a multiplayer setting, this card is pretty good. You can create allies, or gang up on someone who is about to win.
    Dark Petition - decent budget tutor if you can get some cards into your yard.
  4. Where is your removal? Living Death and Life's Finale aren't going to cut it. I think a few counterspells are good, but you really need some targeted removal and a few more wipes. I would aim for a minimum of 4-6 targeted removal spells and 4-6 board wipes. Because you are running a creature based deck, you need to prioritize one sided wipes. Sure, you have blockers, but that doesn't help you against utility creatures or flying.

    Counterspells - counters should be discussed. I think they are a good for the deck and I would recommend running 5. I think they should function mainly to protect your key permanents and prevent your opponents from casting winning spells.

    Targeted Dimir doesn't have a ton of great targeted removal spells. I'm talking about things like Chaos Warp and Vindicate that hit multiple types of permanents. But here are some I would consider:
    Drown in the Loch - pretty flexible and on theme
    Fleshbag Marauder - not targeted, but this guy can really give you some value
    Dismember - highly efficient removal
    Hero's Downfall - relatively flexible at instant speed
    Attrition - black token decks can get a lot of mileage out of this one. I kind of prefer it over things like Dictate of Erebos which are higher cmc. A lot of times, token decks need sac outlets as well. I think this would be a solid choice.
    Finale of Eternity - pretty decent for this deck. If X is 2 or 3, I can see this being good value. Snipes utility creatures.
    Wipes:
    Cyclonic Rift - yes, this card has gotten expensive, but for good reason.
    Force of Despair - i truly think this card is a sleeper. One sided board wipe at instant speed? Yes, it only hits one player, but it gives you a lot of response for not very much mana, and potentially free. Can stop you from dying to explosive turns.
    Kindred Dominance - expensive, but for a black tribal deck, it makes sense.
    Black Sun's Zenith - I am huge fan of this card. -1/-1 counters are incredibly hard for you opponents to get around. One of the best removal spells in these colors IMO.
    Decree of Pain - can be an insanely powerful draw spell. Yes it hits your own stuff, but sometimes drawing a ton of cards is what you need.
    Damnation, Toxic Deluge - pricey. you don't NEED these per se, but they would be worth considering when you get the money.

    [*]Increase your draw power. - card draw in commander is HUGE! It's one of the best ways to ensure a victory or that you have the answers you need when you need them. Here are some good draw spells to consider:
    Frantic Search, Forbidden Alchemy, Preordain, Search for Azcanta, Impulse - cheap draw spells help you fix bad hands. I would prioritize effects with discard attached since they can help you cheat things into play with your reanimation spells.
    Necromancer's Stockpile - really excellent card for this deck I think
    Kindred Discovery - There is a reason this is expensive
    Skullclamp - likely one of the best draw engines in the game. But because your zombies are 2/2s this becomes less attractive, however the card is still so powerful, which enough sac outlets, I think you can get value from it.
    Necropotence - a "no brainer" hehe, see what I did there? however, not cheap
    Bolas's Citadel - worth considering
    [*]What are your win conditions? - while flooding the board with zombies can win games, sometimes that's not enough. Also, your commander could very well get removed so many times that he becomes impossible to use. I think it would be prudent to have one or two backup plans to the aforementioned strategies. Are you against infinite combos? My opinion is that they could be included as means to closeout a game if you've run out of gas or find yourself in a stalemate.
    Throne of the God-Pharaoh - I think this card should be considered in every token deck. It is very powerful and can deal a TON of damage for very little investment. In multiplayer it can sometimes be difficult to get that damage through before someone board wipes. Most wipes are sorcery speed, which means Throne can get that extra damage through before someone wipes (usually)

    [*]Slot in more recursion spells and figure out how to consistently get cards into your graveyard. Recursion is yet another way to help focus the deck. Recursion spells are kind of like tutors, in that they are very flexible and useful at almost any point in the game. I would steer away from milling your opponents unless you you have a way to exile those cards. Most competitive commander decks will fully utilize their graveyards and you don't want to give your opponents card advantage. I would aim for about 5 recursion spells, and a couple of good mill engines that you can tutor for.

    Additionally, you need to find ways to make the most out of your commander's second ability. Stacking your deck with lots of powerful zombies and getting them into your graveyard is going to be key.
    Altar of Dementia - in a creature based deck (especially token based), you can really get some mileage out of this. Not to mention, if you sac your commander, he goes back into your hand. That last ability is really pretty powerful and should be abused to the fullest.

    Dread Return, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Victimize - all classic and powerful reanimation spells.
    Nim Deathmantle - can provide synergy with sac effects
    Phyrexian Reclamation - this card is really a powerhouse! so efficiently costed.
    Patriarch's Bidding - I hope this gets a reprint
    Mission Briefing - this is a really powerful recursion spell
    Call to Mind - worth thinking about, not as good as the above.
    [*]Optimize your zombies. These are very valuable slots. Contrary to what I said before, I think you could go heavier on the zombie creature cards, but each one has to give you super value. I would run about 25 zombie creature cards. Prioritize efficiency and value. You already have a lot of the better zombies, but here are a few I would send to the chopping block:
    Gleaming Overseer - while not necessarily a bad card, I think there are better choices. giving only your tokens hexproof doesn't help much. Is someone really going to use a Path to Exile on your zombie token?
    Lord of the Accursed - not sure that this type of support cards are needed. Unblockabile is good, but only to a point.
    Diregraf Captain, Shepherd of Rot, Vengeful Dead, Gray Merchant of Asphodel - I would recommend focusing on getting your commander out for the drain effect. The redundancy isn't really needed IMO. Better to slot in cards that help you focus the deck. Ramp into your commander, get zombies on the field, and protect your stuff
    Carrion Feeder - not enough value for the slot IMO
    Unbreathing Horde - big beatsticks aren't super useful in commander because they get removed.
    Undead Alchemist - can be good, but can also backfire. Putting stuff into your opponents graveyards is always risky.
    Tomebound Lich - not much value here compared to some of the other choices
    Nightscape Familiar - better to swap this for more consistent ramp. You don't have that many blue cards.
    Noosegraf Mob - while this is a good card, I think the mana cost is too high
    Josu Vess, Lich Knight - while nifty, that kicker cost... too much
    Zombies (and zombie producers) you should consider getting:
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier - this guy is just nuts!
    Graveborn Muse - high priority card
    Noxious Ghoul - pretty darn good
    Relentless Dead - pretty solid and efficient
    Lord of the Undead - yup, it's good
    Corpse Harvester - a bit high on the cmc but the tutor power is pretty good
    Geth, Lord of the Vault - Geth can really take over games
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - very pricey, but insanely powerful
    Grave Titan - definitely pricey but well worth it
    Gravecrawler - low cmc is good.
    Ghoulcaller Gisa - expensive, but pretty effective at making tokens
    Empty the Pits - the delve cost on this is really nice I think, especially if you can consistently mill yourself.
    [*]Cut weaker cards.What else to cut for all these new cards? Well, you've got a lot cards that I think aren't doing a whole lot for you. I'll point out a few. But in general, in order to make these swaps you are going to have to be very selective. What cards are giving you the most bang for your buck? Value vs mana invested is what you should be thinking.

    What to consider cutting:
    Liliana's Mastery - my hunch is that it's going to be better to wide with this deck, especially in a multiplayer format. Anthems like this, if you run them, should be on a creature body. I believe you are going to want to go for quantity of zombies, rather than try to buff them up. Cemetery Reaper is a good example of something I would choose to run over Liliana's Mastery. This definitely strikes me as something to cut.

    Darksteel Ingot, Dimir Cluestone, Commander's Sphere - while I understand you are running these for budget reasons, they aren't as powerful as some of the other ramp spells I've recommended. Remember value for mana invested is what you should be thinking. These are easy cuts once you get better cards.
    Army of the Damned - I do love this card, but that mana cost? I have to ask if there are more efficient ways to make zombies? Also, I think it would be good to keep your commander's second ability in mind.
    Dark Salvation - again, mana intensive
    Grave Betrayal - because of the cmc, I would swap for something more efficient
    Dreadhorde Invasion - not doing much. you want to go explosive with your tokens
    Curse of Disturbance - I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I could see it being good, but I'm skeptical
    Tombstone Stairwell - the reason I don't like this is that it gives your opponents creatures. Also, to get any mileage out of it sucks up a lot of mana.
    Tymaret Calls the Dead - too slow and you don't need the lifegain
    Zombie Apocalypse - I definitely like this card, but the mana cost is kind of steep. Also, how many humans do your opponents tend to have?
    Chemister's Insight - I would swap this for something more efficient
    Pull from Tomorrow - there is more effective draw power out there, especially since you are in black
    Sinister Sabotage - pretty vanilla. not much better than Cancel
    Life's Finale - there are more efficient choices
    Mind Grind, Altar of the Brood - easy cuts. this isn't a mill deck. If anything you want to be milling yourself not your opponents
    Graf Harvest - too slow
    Swiftfoot Boots - on the fence with this one, I almost think you'd be better off with a counterspell. Not sure. Haste is good because UB has a hard time giving its creatures haste, but you have no equipment support.
    Temple of the False God - I don't like running this outside of a green deck. It's a bad land to have in your opening hand.
    Dimir Aqueduct - seriously bad if someone strip mines it.
    Diluvian Primordial - better to swap this for a more efficient recursion spell
    Windfall - not sure this is the right deck for Windfall. It is a good card but can wind up giving your opponents a lot of card advantage. you don't have the control power to deal with that.
Welp, that took me a couple of hours to write. I need to resist the impulse to build this deck. I am such a sucker for commander tribal!!
Last edited by RowanKeltizar 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

I have to go to work, but I want to give you a list of maybe 5-7 cards that I would consider to be the highest priority for you to acquire, or the most worth the money. Might be a couple days till I have the time to do that. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and we can discuss things further if you have questions about my above recommendations.
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Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

So as a fellow zombie player, I'll chime in with my thoughts here and share what I can. I roll with Varina, Lich Queen, but there's bound to be some suggestions I can help with.

Firstly, I think your zombies need optimising. The curve with this tribe can get quite high, and with both of our commanders I think it's important to have some presence to curve into. It's crucial with the Queen, and it's relevant to the God's upkeep trigger too. Here's what I'd look at adding:

Gravecrawler - it's a must.
Withered Wretch - it's a nice cheap control piece.
Relentless Dead - not gonna lie, this guy isn't cheap to buy, but he gives good resilience and is worth the add.
Graveborne Muse - This is your hand filler. It can be a little suicidal, but it's worth it for the draw power.
Midnight Reaper - more draw power for you on a creature that's on-tribe anyway.
Bone Miser - this works SO freaking well for me. It should be nothing but crazy with stuff like Windfall.
Noxious Ghoul - on-tribe creature that gives you a board wipe as you develop your board state. It's worth remembering that Scarab is affected by this too, but it's nonetheless a strong tool.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - Again, it isn't cheap to buy. It is worth it though. This gives you a tool to out a creature of your choice in the yard for Scarab to copy or to otherwise reanimate, and gives you a hard, non-reveal tutor. Otherwise, it's a solid body too.

What I think could go for some of these:
Unbreathing Horde - this guy sucked for me, sadly.
Amass creatures in general. They're not bad, but in order to get the buffs you really need to lay heavily into tokens. You've got pieces that can do this, but you're honestly probably better clearing some space for better inclusions and running either Graf Harvest or Eldrazi Monument depending on your budget. They're just easier.
Tomebound Lich - Connecting makes this guy's draw a lot more conditional. This is an easier like for like swap for Midnight Reaper to my mind.
Noosegraf Mob - I ran this guy for a long time. It was fun. Ultimately he's just a tiny bit too high on the curve for me, even though it was cute with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
Josu Vess, Lich Knight - Having to hardcast this guy and use the kicker to get his tokens makes him way conditional to get value from. If you're not doing this, he's pure vanilla and that's just a bit of a bummer.

I also agree you need more removal. Noxious Ghoul is a nice way to add to this as well as your zombie count. The one inclusion in my list that's been truly devastating is Archfiend of Ifnir. I know, not a zombie. Still worth it. If you're self-milling this guy will lay waste to the board state. I also run Zombie Infestation to fill my yard, and it's a great trick. Other than these, I think Kindred Dominance, Decree of Pain, Black Sun's Zenith and Cyclonic Rift could be potential adds for you, although again budget may make this tough.

For draw I think there's a few things you could do to improve your lot here. Chemister's Insight should be Fact or Fiction. The ceiling is way higher, and it fills your yard. Mystic Remora is a nice 'set and forget' that's nowhere near as expensive as Rhystic Study. Vanquisher's Banner is a possibility, so is Phyrexian Arena, and Ancient Excavation is a little-known hand sculptor. Geier Reach Sanitarium is a cheap hand filter, so is Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. Otherwise, Frantic Search is great, Compulsive Research, Skullclamp could be doable, Distant Melody if you want some burst draw. Kindred Discovery is disgusting in a zombie deck because it triggers off of tokens entering too, but it might be a touch outside of budget.

Your token generators are a mixed bag. I think Endless Ranks of the Dead is a pure waste of time, even if you run Paradox Haze. It bites removal before it can do anything meaningful 9/10 times and it's super slow. I found Dreadhorde Invasion much the same, but your milage may vary. Open the Graves IS good, but you really need more ways to sac your creatures to get it's best uses. Tymaret Calls the Dead I think is pretty weak, I'd drop it personally. Whatever you do though, DO NOT drop Tombstone Stairwell. That thing wins games. Most people don't read it properly. It triggers on EVERY upkeep, not just yours. With Vengeful Dead in play you can drop Stairwell, set and forget and drain the table before your turn swings around again. It's that good, most of the time I've ever played it I've won before I've paid it's upkeep even once. If you're worried about getting slammed with a horde of zombies in return, run Glacial Chasm. Card is great for control. I think Grave Betrayal is ok, if a bit expensive. I'd almost look at running Sepulchral Primordial instead. For the same cost you get multiple creatures, and you can reanimate it too, so it synergises much more with your general and your game plan. Otherwise, just lose Betrayal, as it really overlaps what Scarab does.

I personally think Rooftop Storm is a bit of a trap card. It promises lots, but much like Ranks, it often bites removal long before you get your 6 value from it. I'd personally rather see some mana acceleration here. You could consider Ashnod's Altar, Caged Sun, Dark Petition, even things like Bubbling Muck could be useful. Or you could get weird and add Dream Halls. Fill your yard and get free spells. It's a global effect so it's risky, but your opponents also fill their yard to use it, which plays well into your plans of using the graveyards available to you.

It might be a tiiiny bit gross for your opponents, but I like the idea of adding Mindcrank here. You've got a lot of life-siphon effects here, so make the most of it, shred some libraries, give Scarab more fodder and make a ton more zombies with Tombstone Stairwell and Undead Alchemist.

You could look at your counters for some further versatility too. Arcane Denial is a good way to staple draw to hard counter. I wouldn't get rid of Counterspell purely because it's non-conditional and easy. Mystic Confluence gives you the option of bounce, counter and draw so that's cool.

That's all I can think of right now, hopefully some of this helps. I think you've got the start of something strong here, you just need to refine it a touch, and you should be able to make some big improvements for relatively little money.
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Holy %$#% dude!!! Massive thank you for that post! I'm sorry it took so much of your time, but I truly appreciate it!! Thanks!

Regarding my budget. It normally wouldn't be a problem, but I'm in the process of moving to Tokyo in July and I'm independent (had a rough year last year) so I basically don't have time to put fun money aside each month hehe. I literally need every last penny I've saved hehe. So I will mostly just be going through my old cards and seeing what I can borrow/trade in my play group.
Most of my play group are people I've grown up with and family, so we're all very large with each other borrowing and trading.
I for one know one of my mates has a Gravecrawler I can borrow :) But knowing myself, I will give in to the temptation of the Scarab and get a couple of cards :) But I legit shouldn't.

Aaaanyway, on to the more important parts!

1 Lowering CMC cost
I agree. I recently did a couple of small tweaks to the deck specifically lowering the general cmc.
Haven't actually drawn Rooftop Storm since I bought it, but the prospect of casting zombies for free is too good not to try out at least once hehe.
But yes, I definitely agree I need to focus on lowering the cmc.

2 Mana generation spells
Will definitely up it to 10 spells
I have Ashnod's Altar in my Breya, Etherium shaper deck. I could maybe swap it out and see how it goes. the Breya deck spawns a lot more thopters enabling the altar more than I think I'll be able to with Scarab god, but I'll probably be sac'ing more actual creatures than tokens in that deck.
One of my mates has Black Market in his Markov deck. That card is %$#% sick and I definitely need it!
Heartless Summoning seems very.... backhanded at first glance, but when you take into account one of the win conditions is getting Scarab God life drain triggers, then yeah, I can definitely see it being brutal!
Not a fan of the Ritual spells in this deck. I have my 22 year old Dark Ritual in my Kess deck though where it's sick.
Nyx Lotus, Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus all look good for the deck, will look into it!

3 Tutors
I don't have many because I don't really have that many hehe. I have a couple of the ones you mention in my Yuriko deck. I can swap a couple around, but I'm not too keen on making that deck weaker since it's really fast and good as it is hehe.
My play group hate Yuriko more than all my other decks hehe.
Muddle the mixture looks really really sick, very high contender for my 5th counterspell/tutor in the deck.
I'll check out what I have available, but I'd prioritise other parts of the deck over this for now.

4 Removal
Good question hehe.... I used to have more spot removal, but I have cut too much without noticing how little I have now. I usually want more mass removal in commander and it feels like every slot in this deck is valuable. I feel some of my other decks can be a bit more loose with card choices, but this deck needs a lot of thought to make it flow properly.
I have Kindred Dominance in my Kess deck. I should swap it out and put it in this deck for sure. I also have two Cyclonic Rift but they're in other decks where I value them more. I wish I had it in all my decks (all my decks have blue in them hehe)
Force of despair is so good. I have two and will find space for it in this deck for sure.
Drown in the loch is definitely going in and I'll put good old Fleshbag Marauder in too.
I have a lot of different black spot removal spells, I'll look into trying to add some more kill stuff since the deck is VERY weak to flying threats.

* Draw power
I'm definitely not taking enough advantage of playing blue.... and I play blue in nearly every deck I have.....
Never thought of adding Search for azcanta since it's more creature based, but giving it a second thought, it could be really good because it's graveyard fodder and the deck does actually have a ton of non creature spells for when/if it flips.
I have Skullclamp in other decks, but I don't think it's consistent enough in this deck.
Bolas's Citadel is really good (even though I hate the grammar mistake in the name hehe). I use it in my Yuriko deck as a pseudo Scroll Rack and always have good effect from it. Definitely need to consider this for the deck.
I really need to look through my draw cards again. Particularly ones with discard as you mention.
I have Chemister's Insight because it's a good discard target too, but need more stuff.

* Win Conditions
I guess the main win con I'm aiming for is life drain from Scarab God triggers, second is just zombie beat down (with my own zombies, tokens and stuff I've stolen with Scarab God from other graveyards)
My playgroup have all pretty much agreed to not use infinite combos, so we stay away from them. Sometimes one of us will go "I have this cool combo, so I put it in my deck for just one game. Let's see if i can make it go off". But generally a no go for us.
I have Throne of the God-Pharaoh somewhere. Will definitely add it.
I used to have Torment of Hailfire, but cut it because it was another mana intensive card. That card is an all star in our playgroup though. Love it, but not space for it here.

* Recursion and reanimation
I haven't given much thought into this aspect of the the deck other than a couple of good targets for Scarab God.
One of them being Diluvian Primordial which is usually pretty amazing. I usually discard it and then reanimate it with Scarab God, but you'd ideally cast it, kill it and then reanimate it.
I don't have many spells other than Unearth which I love, but I think may be too narrow for this deck.

* Zombie optimisation
The only zombie you recommend I have access to is Gravecrawler so I'll make sure to add it.
I will keep a high number of zombies and I'll not really think twice about removing the ones you mentioned other than Noosegraf Mob (great for discarding and reanimating with Scarab God. It's a 9/9 that spits of 2/2 tokens. It's insanely good with Scarab God. at least in my experience hehe)
I've also had really good experience with Lord of the accursed giving menace. I'm pretty happy with all the lords in the deck to be honest hehe.

* Cards to cut
I always thought of Liliana's Mastery as a good "lord" card since it's an enchantment and harder to deal with, but it's maybe better in mainly beat down strategies. I'll have a hard time cutting this card to be honest.
Army of the Damned, it's just too funny not include hehe. I know it can backfire hard with wipe, but man.... so many zombies!!! :)
Grave Betrayal Very good, but VERY expensive. I've had it out a couple of games and it's sick, but it's too expensive. I can cut it for other stuff for sure.
Dreadhorde Invasion Only got to play with it in one game so far. I got pretty good results from it, so I'll keep it in for a while and see how it plays out with more games. I added it mostly to get a good early game drop out.
Tymaret calls the dead I mostly added this because I think the art is dope hehe and could give a little graveyard filling and spawn tokens. The two times I played it so far though.... I hit some REALLY good %$#% that I didn't want to mill hehe... so I'm a bit skeptical.
Tombstone Stairwell This will be the hardest card for me to cut hehe, but I can see it's a good idea. It's just a really fun "let's %$#% %$#% up" card in a stalemate with the whole "YOU GET A ZOMBIE!! YOU GET A ZOMBIE!!! AND YOU GET A ZOMBIE!!" It's creates a good incentive for relentless and carefree attacks. But yeah. It requires a lot of mana for it to properly go crazy.
Curse of Disturbance is honestly a favourite of mine and I've always had great experience playing it. It's a great card for bargaining. Always saying "You get a zombie if you attack X" :)
People think it's a really fun card (I hate the dude in the artwork though hehe...)
Mind Grind is pretty wild and Altar of the Brood is good for feeding graveyards, but there's something about milling cards that triggers people in my playgroup. They all REALLY %$#% hate it and will target you if you make people mill even two or three cards hehe.
Graf Harvest is slow? I haven't tried playing it yet, but the thought of a 1 drop enchantment that gives all my creatures menace is pretty sick hehe. But could be right to cut if I'm more about life drain than attacking.

Those are just some of my general thoughts about your post. I have a ton of inspiration for what I need to do to tweak my deck.
I will get back to you when I've done a couple of tweaks. Not sure when I'll get to play though since everyone has jobs and most of them also have a wife and kids... so getting to play is kinda..... yeah... you know how it is hehe.

Thanks again so much! I will reply as soon as I've swapped stuff around.

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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

@toctheyounger Thanks for your post!
I've checked out Varina, Lich Queen quite a bit. Playing Esper gives a lot of extra options and more really good zombies too. The Scarab God is just my boy hehe, he's my main dude so I gotta' rep it as the commander hehe.

As far as the zombies to add, one of the guys in my playgroup has a deck with Anje Falkenrath as the commander with Bone Miser and Archfiend of Ifnir. Those two cards are insane, but I'd definitely need to up some discard effects to make them work here. Bone Miser in particular a card I would love to have in the deck hehe.
Midnight Reaper, Noxious Ghoul and Sidisi, Undead Vizier would all be sick too.

Would love to add Eldrazi Monument hehe. I was slaughtered by that card last time I played... I hate it so much and I'm even "the eldrazi guy" most places hehe. Would be sick.

Will definitely add more removal. I need it!

I don't know, I've always hated Fact or Fiction for giving other players options for what I can get hehe, but I'll swap it in and see how it goes.

I used to run Sepulchral Primordial too, but swapped it out. I'll put it back in and see how it goes.
As mentioned before, my Diluvian Primordial usually always gives me great value, so I'll run with a second Primordial :)

I have taken note of all your tweak suggestions, I'm just too tired now to go through it all thoroughly hehe. I will report back as soon as I've done some work on the deck!

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Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Totally get it, Scarab is a decent commander. Varina is nice too, but they are different.

I think Bone Miser and Archfiend of Ifnir are both still worth considering. You have more discard than you realise in things like Windfall and Pull from Tomorrow, Whispering Madness, Gisa and Geralf, Forgotten Creation and such. These are gravy on top. Your call, but I think you have more synergy here than you realise.

Eldrazi Monument is an easy swap out for Liliana's Mastery to me, strict upgrade. With Gravecrawler the sacrifice effect is nothing to worry about too.

Fact or Fiction is a weird one. I really like it, because it digs deep and asks your opponents to make a call that tells you lots about how good they are. It's easy for folks to tilt towards a bomb and leave things you need more, so it's very rarely something that gives you nothing. Besides, you can still use most of the stuff that hits your graveyard. It's not a must, do what you will with the suggestion, but....y'know, think about it some and see if it fits.

You've had a lot of recommendations here, so my suggestion at this point is not to make sweeping changes at this point. Filter through what has been advised, pick the stuff you KNOW is a good addition and tweak the deck a couple of cards at a time. Otherwise you risk the scenario of ending up with a directionless mess, no matter how much you spend on it.

*ps - seriously though, don't lose Tombstone Stairwell. It's a game-ending spell with aristocrat effects, a board wipe with Noxious Ghoul and an alpha strike with any lords. Don't let the cumulative upkeep fool you, that card is a freaking bomb. I know @RowanKeltizar mentioned it as a potential cut, I just humbly disagree.
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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

Don't sleep on Fact or Fiction just because it gives someone else a choice. I've been playing that card since it was first printed way back in Invasion, and it's always incredible. Even if your opponent is able to correctly weight the individual power level of all five cards, s/he will never have perfect information and you will end up with one pile that does everything you could want. Plus, whatever you don't put in your hand goes into the yard for SG to bring back. It's quite possibly the single best draw spell ever printed.

EDIT: Full disclosure...I've had a SG deck since he was first printed, but I've stayed away from the tribal Zombies and self-mill in favor of making SG into a combination Scavenging Ooze/Chainer, Dementia Master, so I'm not too keen on some of the specific tribal strategies that you appear to be going after.

Couple of cut suggestions:
- Tymaret Calls the Dead: Feels like a slower, more deliberate, easier to disrupt version of what SG already does for you.
- Dreadhorde Invasion: Also feels very slow and deliberate, and doesn't add a ton of value every turn. Maybe if you could guarantee that you had a 6-power attacking Zombie every turn that this card was on the table...never mind.
- Sinister Sabotage: I want my counters to be no more than two mana, unless they do something really spectacular or have multiple modes. At two mana, I'd rather play Arcane Denial, Disdainful Stroke, Swan Song, or Countersquall.
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

Devastation Tide and Evacuation are a lot cheaper than Cyclonic Rift. They aren't one sided, but when you need to wipe, you need to wipe.

Rooftop Storm is a fantastic card, but it's only one card out of 99. You can't rely on getting it every game unless you stack the deck with expensive tutors. Best thing to do is to lower your overall curve and reduce your average cmc.

Heartless Summoning is good in a deck where your goal is to flood the board with creatures. When having more creatures out is more important than their individual P/T, or their abilities are really what you are after. In multiplayer, I've found this to often be the case. I steer away from anthem effects for this reason. Instead of 20, your opponents' life totals are basically 120! Throne of the God Pharaoh doesn't care what the P/T of your creatures are and neither does the Scarab God. You just have to be careful that you don't run any creatures that are vanilla 1/1s. Heartless is definitely not ideal in a token deck, but your goal I think is to drain out your opponents with your commander and Heartless does help toward that end.

Endless Ranks of the Dead - hmm, idk... I think this is still a threat that needs to be answered. It's an enchantment so it's a tiny bit harder to get rid of. What I definitely don't like about it is that it has to sit around a whole turn round before it does anything. Leyline of Anticipation would be a decent include, especially if you decide to go with more counterspells and it help your commander be a bit better since you can drop him on someone else's end step and get immediate benefit on your next upkeep.

Here are 7 cards that are under $2 that I would slot in right away:

Zombie Infestation - wow this card is awesome!
Fact or Fiction - while it's honestly not my personal favorite, I can't deny that this will give you a lot of mileage for not much $$. Straight upgrade to Chemister's Insight.
Frantic Search - free draw is good
Necromancer's Stockpile - you can discard higher cost cards early and reanimate them later. good token producer.
Mission Briefing - such flexibility at such a low cost
Force of Despair - I think we both know how good this card is!
Fleshbag Marauder
Heartless Summoning
Drown in the Loch

Here a few cards under $5 a pop I would prioritize getting:

Coalition Relic, Worn Powerstone, Chromatic Lantern, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo - These are best semi-budget mana sources IMO, and you desperately need more ramp.

Devastation Tide, Black Sun's Zenith, Dismember, Decree of Pain - I would say the weak point of this deck is removal. You should prioritize getting a few of these. Unfortunately, these colors have a harder time dealing with non-creature permanents.

Dread Return - such an iconic card and for good reason. I would run this is just about any black token deck
Buried Alive - tutoring for your best creatures so you can reanimate them is a solid strategy
Scheming Symmetry - like I said, a great budget tutor for multiplayer
Graveborn Muse - you need the draw power
Noxious Ghoul - a great sweeper. you should be able to get immediate benefit from this


Under 20$ and well worth it:

Grave Titan, Sidisi, Undead Vizier - expensive zombies that are insanely good
Cyclonic Rift - you should be able to find one for about $20. Great because it deals with non-creature permanents.
Ashnod's Altar - if you're making tokens you should be using this
Black Market - this can generate so much mana!
Lim-Dûl's Vault - you can think of this as a budget Vampiric Tutor, overall a fantastic tutor spell.
Attrition - repeated removal and a sac outlet
Necropotence - black draw doesn't get much better than this
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Yeah, Fact or Fiction has a lot more going for it than it outwardly seems. It's one of those cards that tests both the caster and the target. Firstly, it's instant speed. Secondly, it digs five whole cards deep which is great for the casting cost. Thirdly, it tells you more about your opponent than it tells them about you, in that it tells you what they're afraid of. They don't necessarily know what you're planning and what you need, so you getting the choice of where the pieces go is really valuable. Fourthly, at a multiple player table you can choose whoever you like to pick for you - pick someone that has shown poor decision making thus far, someone who doesn't know your deck, someone who benefits from your strategies, whatever suits the situation. It's a masterfully designed card, and has a lot of power behind it.
RowanKeltizar wrote:
4 years ago
Endless Ranks of the Dead - hmm, idk... I think this is still a threat that needs to be answered. It's an enchantment so it's a tiny bit harder to get rid of. What I definitely don't like about it is that it has to sit around a whole turn round before it does anything. Leyline of Anticipation would be a decent include, especially if you decide to go with more counterspells and it help your commander be a bit better since you can drop him on someone else's end step and get immediate benefit on your next upkeep.
My issue with Ranks is that it's very, very slow, and it really only thrives when you're otherwise succeeding. It can hammer the nail into the coffin (pun intended), but if you're struggling for board position it's 100% a dead draw. Not only that, being an enchantment makes it harder to deal with, sure, but a board wipe renders it useless too. I've been on the receiving end of wipes and spot removal of it, end result is the same. It's seriously a trap card unless you're playing against true casuals.
RowanKeltizar wrote:
4 years ago
Zombie Infestation - wow this card is awesome!
Can confirm. It's seriously good. Again I think Archfiend of Ifnir is worth considering here for use with these sorts of cards, especially with this and Necromancer's Stockpile. The scenario goes from discarding to get board presence to discarding to get board presence and reducing opposing global board presence, regardless of indestructibility or hexproof, permanently. Obviously it's devastating with Windfall and Whispering Madness too. This is the threat that draws attention away from The Scarab God. There's a very good reason it's the only non-zombie I run in Varina.

I'm gonna put a +1 down for Scheming Symmetry too. I honestly think this is one of the coolest cards to come out in the last year or so. It's just a cool way to keep black's tutor theme in check but still make it fun. Will also agree regarding rocks - these colours need em. My favourites are Fellwar Stone (enters untapped), Thran Dynamo (same again) and Gilded Lotus - the last is expensive to cast but dropping it mid game gives a nice sizable boost you'll need for Scarab's ability or for recasting.

I also wanna talk a little about Black Market - it can be really strong. It's a cool card, and I know it's got a big following. Personally, I'm not a fan. Mostly the reason for this is that it's expensive to cast, requires creatures to die before it does anything (which is tough to do without sacrifice triggers - once it's in play your group will just stop dropping creatures), and gives you burst mana once a turn cycle, which disappears after combat and doesn't have an instant payoff once cast ie. you gotta wait a full turn cycle to see any benefit. I've always found it too many hoops to jump through myself, and for every game it showers you in b there's several it's a dead drop. Comparative to something like Revel in Riches, too, if Market is removed you end up paying 3bb for nothing, where with Revel you at least get treasure tokens left over. Don't get me wrong, I think in the right place it can do great things, but it is worth considering how much synergy you can get from it. If the casting cost is right, I'd go for Revel over Market for reliability myself.
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Ok, got some of the lads coming over tomorrow for some cards, so I've been tweaking a bit this evening with cards I already have and here's my initial in/out list.

IN
Zombie Infestation
Sepulchral Primordial
Force of Despair
Drown in the Loch
Worn Powerstone
Fact or Fiction
Kindred Dominance
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Disdainful Stroke
Gravecrawler

OUT
Carrion Feeder
Altar of the brood
Gleaming Overseer
Unbreathing Horde
Tomebound Lich
Josu Vess, Lich Knight
Chemister's Insight
Grave Betrayal
Dreadhorde Invasion
Tymaret Calls the Dead

I have Fleshbag Marauder and Ancient Excavation that I'd like to put in too, but not quite sure what I want to take out. Maybe Sinister Sabotage and Liliana, Heretical Healer

I'll have a look through one of my mates' binder who never plays blue. I know he's got Mission Briefing and maybe a few other good blue cards I can trade/borrow.
I think I came across a Forbidden Alchemy too, but I forgot to set it aside.
Also, I think I gave my Archfiend of Ifnir to one of my mates who isn't coming tomorrow, but I may have another somewhere. I'll swap it in for something else if I can find it.
Edit: I found a Midnight Reaper in my binder that I'll be swapping in too.

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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Sorry for the late update. I didn't get my first match in until this evening and it was a 3 player, so not the best intel, but I will report back when I have a couple more proper 4 player games.

I swapped Ancient Excavation for Sinister Sabotage and, reluctantly because I like the card, took out Liliana, Heretical Healer for Midnight Reaper

I played against one of my brothers and nephews. Brother on his Chulane deck, that's pretty strong, and my nephew using my Atraxa deck I'm also in the process of tweaking a bit.
All decks fired up pretty good, but I ended up winning.
I thought the deck felt a lot smoother, but I didn't get many of the new cards other than scrying 7 cards deep with Scarab God, finding Kindred Dominance, killing everything and then double killing with all the surviving zombies.
I don't know if I was just lucky that game since I oddly didn't pick up any of the new cards, but it still felt smoother.

Like I said, I'll report back when I have a few more games in. I was supposed to have card night with the lads a few times since I last posted, but life gets in the way you know? hehe.

Oh yeah, Castle Locthwain is amazing

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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

Heads up that a ton of cards that we've suggested for your list have been reprinted in the Mystery Booster set. Check em out: https://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/mystery-booster-cards

Most notably:

Grave Titan
Phyrexian Reclamation
Dread Return
Gravecrawler
Black Market
Ashnod's Altar
Dismember

prices on these printings are very low!
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
4 years ago
Heads up that a ton of cards that we've suggested for your list have been reprinted in the Mystery Booster set. Check em out: https://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/mystery-booster-cards

Most notably:

Grave Titan
Phyrexian Reclamation
Dread Return
Gravecrawler
Black Market
Ashnod's Altar
Dismember

prices on these printings are very low!
Hey!
Thanks for the heads up. One of my brothers bought a display on Friday and got a completely stacked set hehe. Of those I know he got Grave Titan and Black Market. He possibly got some of the others too, but I'm not sure.
I was going to buy/trade/snatch them from him hehe, but he also got Meren of Clan Nel Toth so he's going to make a deck with her and those cards. (He also got Mana Crypt. I'm telling you, his display was %$#% stacked!! We were all in awe hehe)

I just had a two day Magic Marathon with some of my friends hehe. All of Denmark is in lockdown until April 13th, so we got together and played a %$#% ton of Commander.

I played a bunch with the Scarab God deck and won a couple of matches. Even fighting through a Leyline of the void in the last battle.
Something I found pretty weird was the fact that I never felt like I played with any of the new cards, but the deck still felt a lot more smooth. I still haven't had a chance to use Rooftop Storm which I'm sad about.
I always draw all the same cards lol.
Drown In The Loch is really good or really bad, I'll keep it in for now, but I'll say it's on my watch list for potential cards to go out.
Got some pretty good value from Ancient Excavation.
Noosegraf Mob is six mana, but I always get amazing value from it. love that card, especially if I can cast it with Scarab God.
Graf harvest was really sick in games where the others didn't have too many creatures. The second ability isn't very useful when you have Scarab God, but 1 mana for having zombies with menace was sick.
Gravecrawler is amazing
FINALLY got to play with Eternal Skylord and having 9 flying, menace zombies with a Lord of the accursed pumping them and having Scarab God Triggers was pretty insane.
Casting Scarab God on turn 4 is pretty sick, but Nightscape Familiar might be going out for some other zombie.

I still want some of the last couple of upgrades for the deck when money isn't tight, but for now, it feels a lot more smooth and making better use of Scarab God triggers.

The best was stealing a Seedborn Muse and spawning two zombies in everybody else's turn lol!! That was sick!

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Post by Haman » 4 years ago

I think you ran too little lands, rocks and card drawing. All the zombie does not matter if you cannot reached yr first goal that is mana to cast your Commander, and 2nd goal to reach 8 mana to steal some opponent's juicy creatures.

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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Haman wrote:
4 years ago
I think you ran too little lands, rocks and card drawing. All the zombie does not matter if you cannot reached yr first goal that is mana to cast your Commander, and 2nd goal to reach 8 mana to steal some opponent's juicy creatures.
That's exactly what I've been working on :) I'd like to get up to 10 Mana rocks as people mentioned earlier, and definitely a little more card draw.
I'm thinking about adding a Wayfarer's Bauble and Myriad Landscape. Most of my friends run Myriad Landscape in all their decks and they always get great value from it, and Wayfarer's Bauble is nice to getting up to the 8 mana :)

The meta in my playgroup is pretty balanced. Everybody's got some pretty strong decks, but nothing mega crazy or mega fast, so it's alright not being too fast hehe. It's just me who's trying to get this deck up to it's potential.

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Post by Haman » 4 years ago

Helps if u updated yr opening decklist.
Here are some tips:
# Always treat temple of false god as a 4 mana artifact. If i want to go 37 lands, then i would include temple as my 38. If not i would just replace it with some other land if i go 37 land.
If you are not playing with expensive mana rock, you probably need about 37 lands.

#Ask how much is your Commander worth? this tip would work on Commander-centric general.
eg an average deck would have 10 ramp/ 10card drawing
Edric = 10 card drawing in the deck. the common 10 slots of card drawing would be replaced with more counters or time walk.
How much slot does your Commander worth? Technically 3 players's worth of creature slot in their deck... It is possible to build a zombieless scarab god, that maximize on removals and mana, maybe 40 lands. You can try this config when you are bored with tribal.

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Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

For what it's worth I think Temple of the False God is a trap. For every time it's an Ancient Tomb with no downside there's 3 instances you draw it in your starting hand and it does nothing. I'd prefer a Ravnica bounce-land, a Theros scry-land, check land, tango, or just a basic. Maybe even just some basic value like Mystic Sanctuary (actually, that card is great value, it's really worth including).

Personally, I don't think you (necessarily) need to aim for 10 rocks as the benchmark. If that works for you, great. If it doesn't, there's other ways to make sure your deck runs - the best way in Dimir is topdeck manipulation and draw. The more cards you see the more land drops you hit, and Dimir has a huge amount of value for really cheap with this option. There's things like Brainstorm, Ponder, Opt and all of those variants, as well as similar options attached to creatures. Your commander does it nicely anyway. It's an option - I just think you should look at leaning into what your deck does best - if you can make rocks secure or replay then from the yard somehow they're a solid bet, if you have ways to recur cantrips do that. Use your options, there are plenty in these colours.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 4 years ago

Sorry, I will update the OP decklist asap. Been a little busy lately even with all the societal lockdown hehe.

Is Temple of the false god really "that bad"? I think it's pretty rare I end up not having it active.

As for "How much is your commander worth?" I'd say he's worth a lot in this deck so you're both probably right in upping the land count a liiiittle bit more.

I think I have a Mystic Sanctuary around too or maybe I can take it out from another deck and try. I can see it would be good in this deck since I have a lot of spells, but it's a lot more swamp heavy.

Thanks again for the comments, it gives me more ideas to fine tune it. It feels more smooth now, but I can always make improvements, so thank you :)

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Re Temple - it's ok. It's not THAT bad, but once you start really optimizing the lands I can almost guarantee it'll be one of the first lands you drop. You may not have had it sit there doing nothing yet, but it'll happen eventually, and it sucks.

For me it's more that, ideally you want it early, and dropping it early means it does nothing - by the time it's active it's more or less surplus to requirements.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

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