I'm back from playing! I played two games with Kroxa, the first one in a four-player pod with Nath of the Gilt-Leaf (my boyfriend thought he was smart when he chose his deck, hoping to profit from me discarding everyone as well), Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer and Korvold, Fae-Cursed King. I had a Sol Ring start and Kroxa as a follow-up on turn 2. Lifeline on turn 3 was awesome, but I didn't have reanimation spells in my hand. I think it was turn 4 when I used Blasphemous Act to destroy everyone's board and played Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage. Nath exiled my graveyard with only Blasphemous Act and Kroxa in it. A grave mistake. On my turn, I played Kroxa from the Command Zone again and the Lifeline shenanigans began. Meanwhile Nath had a Sangromancer on board and Korvold was doing shenanigans as well with creatures that sacced themselves. Davriel died to the Sangromancer, but I still had a Skullcage. It took me a while but I managed to get a Blood Scrivener out and draw two from it next turn. Diabolic Tutor was one of the cards I drew. No one had cards in hand, but everyone had a good portion of creatures on board again. I needed a boardwipe. I got Noetic Scales and played it. The Nath player returned everything to his hand, after he took 2 damage from the Skullcage. Next was the Brudiclad player who died to the Kroxa who was still in the loop. Okay, actually, Kroxa brought him down to 2, the Skullcage did the rest. The Korvold player gave up, then Nath did the same.
Win.
Second game, same pod, except for a fifth player with Ezuri, Claw of Progress. I was able to play Kroxa on turn 2 again, followed by a turn 3 Temple of Malice and Mind Stone. Turn 4, before I played a land, I played Pox. I discarded two cards, sacced a land, we all lost 14 life and well, I didn't have any creatures to sac, so good for me, I guess.
But I didn't calculate how fast the Nath would be this time. He profited the most from my continuous discarding and suddenly he had 12 Elves directed at me. And a Temple Bell -.-.
My Shrieking Affliction and Storm World did some good amount of damage, but they didn't save me from all 4 opponents coming for me. I was the first one to be knocked out that game, but Nath followed soon after. The Korvold won.
Conclusion: Pox and Smallpox are both cards I consider cutting. I already feared that they'd underperform and unfortunately, they did exactly that. I could need some more card draw.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger: A Take on Titan - No Escape from The Rack
-
kenbaumann
on and off since '94 - Posts: 88
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
@KitsuLeif Nice! Thanks for the report. I'll be curious to see your eventual revisions.
I'll update the starting post with my changes, when I find some time for it, so probably on monday/tuesday.kenbaumann wrote: ↑4 years agoKitsuLeif Nice! Thanks for the report. I'll be curious to see your eventual revisions.
And then I need to think of some more card draw that I want to play instead of Pox/Smallpox. Syphon Mind would be an obvious choice, but it has to come early, otherwise it's just a dead card :/
Tome of Legends sounds like it could be worth running
Sea Gate Wreckage could be another viable option, but a land that taps for only colorless is always risky.
Castle Locthwain at least taps for .
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Mirror of the Forebears? The idea would be to declare Elder or Giant, and then make it a copy of Kroxa in response to Kroxa's ETB abilities. The point wouldn't necessarily to get combat damage in (although extra damage certainly helps), but to get an additional discard trigger when you declare it attacking. I've been curious about the deck because I really like what you're doing with Rack effects and every time I come here I get tempted to build this deck.
I kinda forgot that Mirror of the Forebears existed even though I have one. I had Mirage Mirror in an early version of the deck and threw it out, but now I'm pondering if I should put both in and test them.Segrus wrote: ↑4 years agoOut of curiosity, how do you feel about Mirror of the Forebears? The idea would be to declare Elder or Giant, and then make it a copy of Kroxa in response to Kroxa's ETB abilities. The point wouldn't necessarily to get combat damage in (although extra damage certainly helps), but to get an additional discard trigger when you declare it attacking. I've been curious about the deck because I really like what you're doing with Rack effects and every time I come here I get tempted to build this deck.
I updated the starting post with the recent changes. The version there is the one I played on friday.
In a future update I want to replace some basic lands with more or less cheap duals and stuff like that to make the deck more consistent:
In a future update I want to replace some basic lands with more or less cheap duals and stuff like that to make the deck more consistent:
I also want to cut Pox and Smallpox and another card on which I didn't decide yet for Mirage Mirror, Mirror of the Forebears and Tome of Legends.
Nice report!
In terms of adding card draw, I would add Night's Whisper, Necropotence or Ransack the Lab before I would add wonky artifact draw like Tome of Legends. You're in a good color for card draw, use it.
Unrelated: Mirage Mirror is always good in my experience
In terms of adding card draw, I would add Night's Whisper, Necropotence or Ransack the Lab before I would add wonky artifact draw like Tome of Legends. You're in a good color for card draw, use it.
Unrelated: Mirage Mirror is always good in my experience
I don't know how to feel about Necropotence, because I discard cards myself and don't want them to be exiled. On the other hand I want repeatable card draw in form of an enchantment or artifact.
I don't know if I would call Tome wonky in this setting. If you're getting Kroxa to enter regularly at all, it'll be pretty consistent colorless draw. Not being able to draw more than one a turn is the drawback. Maybe Infernal Tribute, since it plays well with getting Kroxa into the graveyard?
is always risky, what do you think of Vampiric Rites? It can only sacrifice creatures but it hits token creatures as well.Segrus wrote: ↑4 years agoI don't know if I would call Tome wonky in this setting. If you're getting Kroxa to enter regularly at all, it'll be pretty consistent colorless draw. Not being able to draw more than one a turn is the drawback. Maybe Infernal Tribute, since it plays well with getting Kroxa into the graveyard?
I suppose the initial triple black could be hard to hit. Vampiric Rites sort of transfers that over to the activation side, which **could** be just as rough. But I'd say the edge is towards Rites.KitsuLeif wrote: ↑4 years agois always risky, what do you think of Vampiric Rites? It can only sacrifice creatures but it hits token creatures as well.Segrus wrote: ↑4 years agoI don't know if I would call Tome wonky in this setting. If you're getting Kroxa to enter regularly at all, it'll be pretty consistent colorless draw. Not being able to draw more than one a turn is the drawback. Maybe Infernal Tribute, since it plays well with getting Kroxa into the graveyard?
Then I'll try Vampiric Rites, I have that card here already. Next time I will be able to play is probably at the end of this month, so I have plenty of time to decide what I want to cut for Rites. Probably Grim Return as it is my least favorite reanimation spell in this deck and is very unflexible.
Grim Return just reminded me of Grim Harvest, but that's even more janky lol.KitsuLeif wrote: ↑4 years agoThen I'll try Vampiric Rites, I have that card here already. Next time I will be able to play is probably at the end of this month, so I have plenty of time to decide what I want to cut for Rites. Probably Grim Return as it is my least favorite reanimation spell in this deck and is very unflexible.
Thank you for your reports! Looks like the deck was fun 
For card draw, Erebos, God of the Dead and Greed can be considered but they cost 4 and you might want to play Kroxa on turn 4. I would suggest Phyrexian Arena, Read the Bones and/or Grim Haruspex.
For card draw, Erebos, God of the Dead and Greed can be considered but they cost 4 and you might want to play Kroxa on turn 4. I would suggest Phyrexian Arena, Read the Bones and/or Grim Haruspex.
You're also still paying mana every single time. So your paying mana and hoping everything works out with Kroxa and then you're drawing a card a turn. Phyrexian Arena is also 2+1 mana for card draw every single turn, with no conditions.Segrus wrote: ↑4 years agoI don't know if I would call Tome wonky in this setting. If you're getting Kroxa to enter regularly at all, it'll be pretty consistent colorless draw. Not being able to draw more than one a turn is the drawback. Maybe Infernal Tribute, since it plays well with getting Kroxa into the graveyard?
I would suggest you try it, Necropotence is freaking broken in a 40 life format. Even in decks that want stuff in their graveyard. But availability is a thing ofcourse.KitsuLeif wrote: ↑4 years agoI don't know how to feel about Necropotence, because I discard cards myself and don't want them to be exiled. On the other hand I want repeatable card draw in form of an enchantment or artifact.
Still not sure about Necropotence, because you get the cards into your hand at the end of the turn and have to wait a turn cycle before they can be used in most cases. I just really dislike this card, but I probably have to try it :/
EDIT:
Ordered a lot of cards now :D
I also have a Mirror of the Forebears, Mirage Mirror and Sea Gate Wreckage here already, so expect the next big update on the primer in 1-2 weeks, when the cards arrived when I want! I have made the changes in archidekt already, so I can also make them in the primer.
EDIT:
Ordered a lot of cards now :D
And a Necropotence in Deckmaster Foil.
I also have a Mirror of the Forebears, Mirage Mirror and Sea Gate Wreckage here already, so expect the next big update on the primer in 1-2 weeks, when the cards arrived when I want! I have made the changes in archidekt already, so I can also make them in the primer.
Last edited by KitsuLeif 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Based on how the deck operates, you're exaggerating a bit when you say "hoping everything works out with Kroxa." By all accounts Kroxa is working out consistently enough that Tome is a manageable low budget option.shandiris wrote: ↑4 years agoYou're also still paying mana every single time. So your paying mana and hoping everything works out with Kroxa and then you're drawing a card a turn.Segrus wrote: ↑4 years agoI don't know if I would call Tome wonky in this setting. If you're getting Kroxa to enter regularly at all, it'll be pretty consistent colorless draw. Not being able to draw more than one a turn is the drawback. Maybe Infernal Tribute, since it plays well with getting Kroxa into the graveyard?
I felt like updating the primer early, because hey, even if the cards haven't arrived yet, I can still work on the deck list.
I swapped 17 cards, 14 of them lands, because the mana base needed some work. I also needed more card draw, so a Necropotence was due. Pox and Smallpox underperformed so they got replaced by Mirage Mirror and Mirror of the Forebears for more synergies with Kroxa.
I swapped 17 cards, 14 of them lands, because the mana base needed some work. I also needed more card draw, so a Necropotence was due. Pox and Smallpox underperformed so they got replaced by Mirage Mirror and Mirror of the Forebears for more synergies with Kroxa.
Latest Changes to the Main Build
//Added
Approximate Total Cost:
Unfortunately, because of the current situation (you may have heard from a global pandemic that's going around) I wasn't able to playtest the new version of the deck properly. And I don't really like to play online via XMage or Cockatrice with strangers, even though I tried it a few times. Kroxa performed quite good, even though it didn't win in the two games I managed to finish (server lags on XMage are really frustrating, especially when you take 5 minutes to go from your upkeep to your draw step @.@) but that's not the reason I wanted to give an update on the deck and this thread.
What I wanted to do is to voice my opinion on the spoilered cards from Ikoria and Commander 2020 that could be interesting for Kroxa, so if you do not wish to be spoilered, I'd advise you to not read any further:
First of all, Arcane Signet gets a reprint. It will probably get a lot cheaper, but that doesn't mean I want to include it in every deck I play. If I had to include it in Kroxa it would probably replace Mind Stone, which doubles as card draw in the late game. Something, Arcane Signet can't do. With an average CMC of 3,15 I don't think that this deck needs an Arcane Signet. So yeah, the price wasn't the reason I didn't include the Signet in the first place.
Call of the Death-Dweller seems like a fun reanimation spell. Just not for Kroxa himself in most cases. Giving Kroxa Deathtouch and Menace won't do anything because he gets sacrificed immediately again. But there are other juicy targets for the spell, mostly Liliana, Heretical Healer and Feldon of the Third Path. But in the end, I don't think it's worth the inclusion.
Lavabrink Floodgates looks like a good piece of ramp that can be a boardwipe in some situations, but with a CMC of 4 it's probably too slow.
Manascape Refractor... boy, oh boy... what is that? It comes in tapped and it would probably be broken if it didn't. In this deck it would be another Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Geier Reach Sanitarium or Cabal Coffers, but it can do even more with Utility Lands our opponents have in play. I will try this card for sure.
Molten Echoes looks like it would be a great inclusion in a Tribal deck, but I can see it fulfilling a role similar to Mirror of the Forebears or Mirage Mirror in this deck. It's a strictly better Flameshadow Conjuring for this deck as we don't have to spend mana for copying Kroxa. I doubt that the card will be an auto-include here, but I consider testing it at least.
Deadly Rollick on the other hand seems to be an auto-include. Exile-removal for 0 is an awesome way to deal with problematic creatures. Of course we need Kroxa to be on the battlefield, but given that this is an Instant, we can cast it in response after reanimating Kroxa, before he goes to the grave again.
Species Specialist basically reads "Whenever you reanimate Kroxa, draw a card." Of course, if you have Tribal decks in your meta, it could be worth an inclusion, because with a boardwipe you will draw a lot of cards, but it's probably not worth a slot in the deck.
This is my opinion on the cards that are revealed already. Hopefully there will be more cards for this deck because as of right now, there is nothing that really amazes me (except for the Manascape Refractor, but that card will see play in many decks that's for sure). I'm sitting here and waiting for more cards that fit Kroxa's theme. Maybe Ikoria and C20 are the wrong sets for this theme, but there's still hope.
Next sunday, when all the cards are revealed, I will post the final set review.
What I wanted to do is to voice my opinion on the spoilered cards from Ikoria and Commander 2020 that could be interesting for Kroxa, so if you do not wish to be spoilered, I'd advise you to not read any further:
First of all, Arcane Signet gets a reprint. It will probably get a lot cheaper, but that doesn't mean I want to include it in every deck I play. If I had to include it in Kroxa it would probably replace Mind Stone, which doubles as card draw in the late game. Something, Arcane Signet can't do. With an average CMC of 3,15 I don't think that this deck needs an Arcane Signet. So yeah, the price wasn't the reason I didn't include the Signet in the first place.
Call of the Death-Dweller seems like a fun reanimation spell. Just not for Kroxa himself in most cases. Giving Kroxa Deathtouch and Menace won't do anything because he gets sacrificed immediately again. But there are other juicy targets for the spell, mostly Liliana, Heretical Healer and Feldon of the Third Path. But in the end, I don't think it's worth the inclusion.
Lavabrink Floodgates looks like a good piece of ramp that can be a boardwipe in some situations, but with a CMC of 4 it's probably too slow.
Manascape Refractor... boy, oh boy... what is that? It comes in tapped and it would probably be broken if it didn't. In this deck it would be another Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Geier Reach Sanitarium or Cabal Coffers, but it can do even more with Utility Lands our opponents have in play. I will try this card for sure.
Molten Echoes looks like it would be a great inclusion in a Tribal deck, but I can see it fulfilling a role similar to Mirror of the Forebears or Mirage Mirror in this deck. It's a strictly better Flameshadow Conjuring for this deck as we don't have to spend mana for copying Kroxa. I doubt that the card will be an auto-include here, but I consider testing it at least.
Deadly Rollick on the other hand seems to be an auto-include. Exile-removal for 0 is an awesome way to deal with problematic creatures. Of course we need Kroxa to be on the battlefield, but given that this is an Instant, we can cast it in response after reanimating Kroxa, before he goes to the grave again.
Species Specialist basically reads "Whenever you reanimate Kroxa, draw a card." Of course, if you have Tribal decks in your meta, it could be worth an inclusion, because with a boardwipe you will draw a lot of cards, but it's probably not worth a slot in the deck.
This is my opinion on the cards that are revealed already. Hopefully there will be more cards for this deck because as of right now, there is nothing that really amazes me (except for the Manascape Refractor, but that card will see play in many decks that's for sure). I'm sitting here and waiting for more cards that fit Kroxa's theme. Maybe Ikoria and C20 are the wrong sets for this theme, but there's still hope.
Next sunday, when all the cards are revealed, I will post the final set review.
Okay, time for part 2 of the set review for Kroxa:
Dredge the Mire sounds like a funny little reanimation spell, but it doesn't work for our graveyard, so I'll probably pass on that.
Surly Badgersaur looks like another Bone Miser, but I fear that I don't play enough self-discard to justify running it. Just like the original :/
Heartless Act... ouch, right in the feels. It's probably a meta choice against counter strategies but at least it is a really good removal spell that I should consider running.
Bonder's Enclave will replace Sea Gate Wreckage in my deck for sure. I have Kroxa out often enough to activate this with instant-speed and I don't have the restriction to do so only when I have an empty hand. I really like this one a lot!
So, in conclusion:
Bonders' Enclave in - Sea Gate Wreckage out
Manascape Refractor in - Altar of Dementia (?) out
Deadly Rollick in - Bedevil out
Molten Echoes in - Mirage Mirror (?) out
Well... and that's about it. Not that much exciting stuff in Ikoria and Commander 2020. Is there a card I have missed in my review? What do you think about the possible changes?
Dredge the Mire sounds like a funny little reanimation spell, but it doesn't work for our graveyard, so I'll probably pass on that.
Surly Badgersaur looks like another Bone Miser, but I fear that I don't play enough self-discard to justify running it. Just like the original :/
Heartless Act... ouch, right in the feels. It's probably a meta choice against counter strategies but at least it is a really good removal spell that I should consider running.
Bonder's Enclave will replace Sea Gate Wreckage in my deck for sure. I have Kroxa out often enough to activate this with instant-speed and I don't have the restriction to do so only when I have an empty hand. I really like this one a lot!
So, in conclusion:
Bonders' Enclave in - Sea Gate Wreckage out
Manascape Refractor in - Altar of Dementia (?) out
Deadly Rollick in - Bedevil out
Molten Echoes in - Mirage Mirror (?) out
Well... and that's about it. Not that much exciting stuff in Ikoria and Commander 2020. Is there a card I have missed in my review? What do you think about the possible changes?
Last edited by KitsuLeif 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Oh boy! Rules change and Kroxa seems to profit from it, if it works how I hope it will.
Now, whenever I decide to put Kroxa back into the Command Zone, when he dies, Liliana, Heretical Healer and Syr Konrad, the Grim will still trigger. And Syr Konrad will trigger twice then! Awesome!
Next up is the set review for M21 and Jumpstart (I will probably do them seperately, depending on how much there is for this deck. I've already seen a card fitting in here.)
Now, whenever I decide to put Kroxa back into the Command Zone, when he dies, Liliana, Heretical Healer and Syr Konrad, the Grim will still trigger. And Syr Konrad will trigger twice then! Awesome!
Next up is the set review for M21 and Jumpstart (I will probably do them seperately, depending on how much there is for this deck. I've already seen a card fitting in here.)
W-what? No! Of course not! I meant Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner!... okay, yeah, I mean new Liliana... xD
I really like her +1, because it feels very Kroxa-y. And of course her emblem... another Lifeline-esque effect is an awesome addition for this deck.
I really like her +1, because it feels very Kroxa-y. And of course her emblem... another Lifeline-esque effect is an awesome addition for this deck.
So... let's take a look at M21 and Jumpstart:
Bad Deal sounds exactly like that. A pretty bad deal. A CMC of 6 so that everyone else discards two and we draw two? Meh.
Liliana, Waker of the Dead. Now that one is juicy. Not only is it a consistent discard engine on her +1 and very similar in effect to Kroxa, but she is also removal and if we get to her ult, she gives us another Sheoldred, Whispering One-like Emblem.
Well... and that's it for M21. Not a lot of cool new stuff. But I really have to slot in the Lili in this deck. She looks way cooler than all of that Ikoria stuff combined. I didn't even try Manascape Refractor, because in the end it felt overhyped and not worth including. To be honest, I didn't try the other cards as well, because after more consideration I was pretty happy with the deck as it was. The only card I will probably put in the deck will be Bonders' Enclave. Maybe.
And now to Jumpstart. A lot of cool reprints are in this set (the M21 Liliana for example) and I probably want to build a cube with this set (you know, all the 121 possible semi-decks as a cube), but there is one card in this set I have to take a closer look at for Kroxa.
Tinybones, Trinket Thief. This little skeleton provides card draw on each end step when an opponent discarded a card this turn for the low cost of 1 life. And 1B is a cost that works well with the reanimation spells that care about low CMC.
But the best thing about this little guy? It works as an outlet in the late game when our opponents are low on cards in their hands. It's almost never a dead card. I love it!
Bad Deal sounds exactly like that. A pretty bad deal. A CMC of 6 so that everyone else discards two and we draw two? Meh.
Liliana, Waker of the Dead. Now that one is juicy. Not only is it a consistent discard engine on her +1 and very similar in effect to Kroxa, but she is also removal and if we get to her ult, she gives us another Sheoldred, Whispering One-like Emblem.
Well... and that's it for M21. Not a lot of cool new stuff. But I really have to slot in the Lili in this deck. She looks way cooler than all of that Ikoria stuff combined. I didn't even try Manascape Refractor, because in the end it felt overhyped and not worth including. To be honest, I didn't try the other cards as well, because after more consideration I was pretty happy with the deck as it was. The only card I will probably put in the deck will be Bonders' Enclave. Maybe.
And now to Jumpstart. A lot of cool reprints are in this set (the M21 Liliana for example) and I probably want to build a cube with this set (you know, all the 121 possible semi-decks as a cube), but there is one card in this set I have to take a closer look at for Kroxa.
Tinybones, Trinket Thief. This little skeleton provides card draw on each end step when an opponent discarded a card this turn for the low cost of 1 life. And 1B is a cost that works well with the reanimation spells that care about low CMC.
But the best thing about this little guy? It works as an outlet in the late game when our opponents are low on cards in their hands. It's almost never a dead card. I love it!
New playgroup, new meta.
Kroxa does what he can, but it's incredibly hard to survive against attack-oriented decks, so I'm pondering what to do against those.
Cards like Caltrops, Crawlspace and Smoke come to mind, but I don't know if this is enough. The hate that this deck draws is real (and I'm not surprised by it).
Also, I want to Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, because I feel like most of the time I don't need this chunky daddy.
Kroxa does what he can, but it's incredibly hard to survive against attack-oriented decks, so I'm pondering what to do against those.
Cards like Caltrops, Crawlspace and Smoke come to mind, but I don't know if this is enough. The hate that this deck draws is real (and I'm not surprised by it).
Also, I want to Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, because I feel like most of the time I don't need this chunky daddy.
