Grothama, All-Devouring - The Maw of Oblivion

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SquirrelToken
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Post by SquirrelToken » 3 years ago

Oh geez.

@RabidVacin traded me the last card that I needed for this deck, and I sleeved it up and brought it out tonight for Commander Night (special webcam edition). I read Grothama's stats, and I was promptly told to go die. Then I got to her ability and people said "Oh. OH!" Opponents were Hallar and Karametra. I mulled a two-land hand into a four-lander with a Witness and a Pattern of Rebirth and something else - I think Nature's Claim. I topdecked a Scooze and on T4 I suited it up with Pattern. I made a risky play on T6 - I ran out Grothama and equipped her with some boots. I then attacked and turned the Scooze into Ghalta. Then I held my breath and passed the turn. Both players had enough power to kill Grothama at the cost of their entire boards, but I didn't think that they'd leave themselves vulnerable to the crackback. If I guessed wrong, then I'm looking at someone with a full grip. Fortunately, I guessed right and they both passed the turn after asking how much power I had (22). Then it got stupid - turn 7 I topdecked Vigor. So I ROFLstomped at each of them for 22, Abyssing Hallar and trampling over Karametra. Neither of them had an answer, and the next turn I topdecked a Forest, attacked again, cast Rishkar's Expertise for 38 cards, and used the free cast to Skyshroud Claim up two Forests so that I had Yavimaya Hollow mana up. And that was game.

I feel like the key turn cycle was the one where both of them declined to cash in their boards for cards. And if I hadn't topdecked the Vigor, I would've had to play "fair" and slam Ghalta into Grothama, killing both to draw 12. Not the worst turn 7, but not game-ending.

The deck was voted "silly but powerful" and "doesn't make us feel like chumps", so I may even be able to play it again.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 3 years ago

Cards in my deck that aren't in yours: What got cut: Of the cards that I replaced, I suppose that I had the option to get any of the fatties when I Patterned, but Ghalta just seemed like the right call. Yavimaya Hollow came down, but I never needed to use it (although the threat of activation may have bought me time). Everything else I drew off my "draw 38", at which point I'd already won, so I can't tell you how any of these changes affected the deck. If the table had been on a more aggressive start, I probably would've Patterned into OG Rhonas, cracked in and drawn 5 cards, and then tried to settle down for the long game instead of deciding to take the steering wheel and just bash peoples' faces.

Of the replacements, the lands are straight upgrades, Mana Crypt became a Mana Vault because that's what I had, Lignify became Song, Compass became Henge, and the rest are "let's try this" choices. Traverse seems like a card that I'd like to get in there, but I don't have one so until I can trade for one it won't make the cut.

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Kyra Warsong
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Post by Kyra Warsong » 3 years ago

SquirrelToken wrote:
3 years ago
Oh geez.

RabidVacin traded me the last card that I needed for this deck, and I sleeved it up and brought it out tonight for Commander Night (special webcam edition). I read Grothama's stats, and I was promptly told to go die. Then I got to her ability and people said "Oh. OH!" Opponents were Hallar and Karametra. I mulled a two-land hand into a four-lander with a Witness and a Pattern of Rebirth and something else - I think Nature's Claim. I topdecked a Scooze and on T4 I suited it up with Pattern. I made a risky play on T6 - I ran out Grothama and equipped her with some boots. I then attacked and turned the Scooze into Ghalta. Then I held my breath and passed the turn. Both players had enough power to kill Grothama at the cost of their entire boards, but I didn't think that they'd leave themselves vulnerable to the crackback. If I guessed wrong, then I'm looking at someone with a full grip. Fortunately, I guessed right and they both passed the turn after asking how much power I had (22). Then it got stupid - turn 7 I topdecked Vigor. So I ROFLstomped at each of them for 22, Abyssing Hallar and trampling over Karametra. Neither of them had an answer, and the next turn I topdecked a Forest, attacked again, cast Rishkar's Expertise for 38 cards, and used the free cast to Skyshroud Claim up two Forests so that I had Yavimaya Hollow mana up. And that was game.

I feel like the key turn cycle was the one where both of them declined to cash in their boards for cards. And if I hadn't topdecked the Vigor, I would've had to play "fair" and slam Ghalta into Grothama, killing both to draw 12. Not the worst turn 7, but not game-ending.

The deck was voted "silly but powerful" and "doesn't make us feel like chumps", so I may even be able to play it again.
I spit out my water when I read "I was promptly told to go die."

I've found in playing this deck that people often give you more leeway to leave Grothama up than they probably should - turning in 4 creatures for 8 card is a great deal, but I think they expect you to trick them, when the reality is that you rarely have the ability to fake people out in that way.

I'm really glad it went well. Sometimes it doesn't go that well, so I'm happy your first game was the dream.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 3 years ago

I'm actually kind of blown away. It's hard for me to get my head around the fact that someone made a deck in paper - paid money and traded for cards - based on MY decklist. It's more than I ever hoped for when I started working on this. Maybe it's stupid, but that makes me feel really good. Thank you, @@SquirrelToken

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Post by SquirrelToken » 3 years ago

Kyra Warsong wrote:
3 years ago
I'm actually kind of blown away. It's hard for me to get my head around the fact that someone made a deck in paper - paid money and traded for cards - based on MY decklist. It's more than I ever hoped for when I started working on this. Maybe it's stupid, but that makes me feel really good. Thank you, @SquirrelToken
My pleasure. This was pretty fun to pilot. Definitely worth the $40 and however much in trades. And I still have friends after playing it!

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Post by SquirrelToken » 3 years ago

Hey @Kyra Warsong , any thoughts on Battle for Zendikar - I mean, Zendikar Rising - additions? Bala Ged Recovery over a basic Forest seems like a gimme, but I'm on the fence about Turntimber Symbiosis, mostly because seven is a lot of mana, even though it's basically a no-cost include. Nothing else really looks like it works with our game plan.

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Post by liebo » 3 years ago

Hi @Kyra Warsong, really like this primer. I had build a Grothama deck prior to finding this primer and this piece was really inspiring and definetely will adapt many of your ideas. Funny that EDHREC doesn't even mention Hunted Troll which seem like a must-run.

I wanted to give some input and hear your opinion on the following card suggestions (some of which I run currently, some of which I have on my maybe-board):
Surrak, the Hunt Caller - I'm sure you agree that the best case is that you cast a Grothama-killer on the turn prior to casting Grothama, and Hunted Troll and Consulate Dreadnought (+ a small 1/1 or bigger creature) are pretty much the only choices here. Surrak could be an additional haste enabler along Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots for when Grothama is on the table before the killer or enters the same turn (plus providing a decent 5/4 body).
Return of the Wildspeaker - Could be a flexible alt./upgrade to Garruk, Primal Hunter, as this has his minus ability (primary reason to run Garruk), has over-run type effect that can even be a finisher if enough bodies are on the field and can be a (expensive) combat-trick to boost Grothama if we whiff on killing him ourselves for some reason (although quite situational).
Brutalizer Exarch Can tutor Psychosis Crawler (or other relevant creature) or remove problem non-creature permanents. Also brutal (pun intended) in the Selvala/Boots/bounce kitty combo as it can imitate a C-rift without creatures board-wipe all non-creatures effectively forcing opponents to tutor for their lost key pieces at the bottom of their respective libraries. 6 CMC is quite expensive though.
Vines of Vastwood Can dodge some problematic creature removal spells, can boost a creature to draw extra 4 cards when killing Grothama and can be a combat trick to boost Grothama of an opponent gets the change to swing at it.

For the next few cards, I will suggest to try to get more bodies on the board as they can help kill Grothama and especially together with Consulate Dreadnought, we really want a small body that we can feed to Grothama.
Gyre Sage Could maybe replace Druids' Repository.
Llanowar Elves (and similar cards) - provide ramp as well as 1/1 bodies. Maybe even Satyr Wayfinder.

Then some land suggestions:
Castle Garenbrig I've been very happy with this card (I also run Nyxbloom Ancient which then gives (6 mana * 3) - (4 mana * 3) = 6 mana, which is amazing :-)
Centaur Garden Somewhat similar to Treetop Village, but enters untapped.
Blast Zone Can give a poor man's Ugin, the Spirit Dragon type effect, without sacrificing much on the mana base as it enters untapped.
Bonders' Enclave Looks really good for this deck, easy to get a 4 power creature on the board.

I saw other mentions of Myojin of Life's Web, I have to say that this has proven amazing in this type of deck for me and it is very close to being a win-con as you can drop so much with it if you have that large hand that we aim for. The Great Henge is also incredible value (I know it is a bit expensive money-wise though).

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts :-) Could also be good to hear your thoughts, @SquirrelToken.

Best,
Liebo

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Post by SquirrelToken » 3 years ago

liebo wrote:
3 years ago
Surrak, the Hunt Caller - I'm sure you agree that the best case is that you cast a Grothama-killer on the turn prior to casting Grothama, and Hunted Troll and Consulate Dreadnought (+ a small 1/1 or bigger creature) are pretty much the only choices here. Surrak could be an additional haste enabler along Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots for when Grothama is on the table before the killer or enters the same turn (plus providing a decent 5/4 body).
Return of the Wildspeaker - Could be a flexible alt./upgrade to Garruk, Primal Hunter, as this has his minus ability (primary reason to run Garruk), has over-run type effect that can even be a finisher if enough bodies are on the field and can be a (expensive) combat-trick to boost Grothama if we whiff on killing him ourselves for some reason (although quite situational).
Brutalizer Exarch Can tutor Psychosis Crawler (or other relevant creature) or remove problem non-creature permanents. Also brutal (pun intended) in the Selvala/Boots/bounce kitty combo as it can imitate a C-rift without creatures board-wipe all non-creatures effectively forcing opponents to tutor for their lost key pieces at the bottom of their respective libraries. 6 CMC is quite expensive though.
Vines of Vastwood Can dodge some problematic creature removal spells, can boost a creature to draw extra 4 cards when killing Grothama and can be a combat trick to boost Grothama of an opponent gets the change to swing at it.

For the next few cards, I will suggest to try to get more bodies on the board as they can help kill Grothama and especially together with Consulate Dreadnought, we really want a small body that we can feed to Grothama.
Gyre Sage Could maybe replace Druids' Repository.
Llanowar Elves (and similar cards) - provide ramp as well as 1/1 bodies. Maybe even Satyr Wayfinder.

Then some land suggestions:
Castle Garenbrig I've been very happy with this card (I also run Nyxbloom Ancient which then gives (6 mana * 3) - (4 mana * 3) = 6 mana, which is amazing :-)
Centaur Garden Somewhat similar to Treetop Village, but enters untapped.
Blast Zone Can give a poor man's Ugin, the Spirit Dragon type effect, without sacrificing much on the mana base as it enters untapped.
Bonders' Enclave Looks really good for this deck, easy to get a 4 power creature on the board.

I saw other mentions of Myojin of Life's Web, I have to say that this has proven amazing in this type of deck for me and it is very close to being a win-con as you can drop so much with it if you have that large hand that we aim for. The Great Henge is also incredible value (I know it is a bit expensive money-wise though).
Hi Liebo. I haven't played the deck too too much, but I have to say that I'm pretty happy with my Great Henge. Bonder's Enclave is okay, although it doesn't shore up the deck's main weakness, which is wraths. You get your board wiped, you're not drawing anything. You don't get your board wiped ... Grothama draws you all the cards you need. Castle Garenbrig seems fine, since we don't have a basic-matters theme and we definitely have lots of Forests - I'll cut one and go down to 20 and put the Castle in. I haven't found myself short of mana, so I'm thinking that the mana dorks and doublers don't really do anything for us. Centaur Garden whittles down our life a bit and in order to cash in on that Giant Growth you have to sac it. AND you have to have threshold. I'm not sure that I like all of those hoops. Treetop Village is a great early-game blocker, or late-game swinger to crack 3 more points of damage into Grothama, and all you have to do is wait for it to untap.

Return of the Wildspeaker is a pretty juicy suggestion, and I think I might try to find room for it.

I think that Surrak was on both Kyra's and my maybeboard.

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Post by liebo » 3 years ago

Hey SquirrelToken,
I did some more brewing and would love to hear your thoughts on these. Note, these have not really been played that much yet, so it is a bit of a brewing stage right now. Most of these cards are included to optimize the chances of killing Grothama the same turn as she ETBs, as this seems like the best strat for this deck. Usually that one Grothama kill will be enough to snowball the deck into a flourish of mana and card advantage in my experience, so it is important to do this quickly and with high probability:
Oakhame Adversary Good card to get an extra card in T3 and serves nicely as a Grothama-killer when you are short on damage to push it over the edge. Not a horribly late game either as deathtouch is never bad to scare off some opponent creatures.
Invigorate +4/+4 for zero CMC - now only 4 more dmg is needed to kill Grothama (or just boost the killer to draw even more if you already have enough dmg)
Might of Old Krosa Same motivation, albeit worse card as it is 1 CMC
Scale Up Similar to the above two. Think this a fun and flexible card that both can work as a power-up for a creature (I run the elves, so that 1/1 dork is suddenly 6/4) or a power-down of Grothama (changes from a green wurm to a ... green wurm) ;)
Not the primary reason at all, but Invigorate and Might of Old Krosa can also be utilized to buff Grothama when people think that can kill it. A dangerous game to play for sure though.
Life's Legacy See it as a 2 CMC Grothama killer, although 7 mana is then required in on turn if Grothama needs to die same turn as she is played. But then again it serves nicely to with high power creatures like Hunted Troll or similar as a Grothama-esque draw effect (trading creature for card draw),
Phyrexian Soulgorger This card might not be worth it, but I'll experiment with it for a bit. This card plus on dork / low cmc creature to be sacced can be traded for Grothama. Can also be used with Life's Legacy or Return of the Wildspeaker in its own right (and just sacced at upkeep if the latter is used).

Looking forward to hearing from you.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 3 years ago

liebo wrote:
3 years ago
Hi @Kyra Warsong, really like this primer. I had build a Grothama deck prior to finding this primer and this piece was really inspiring and definetely will adapt many of your ideas. Funny that EDHREC doesn't even mention Hunted Troll which seem like a must-run.

I wanted to give some input and hear your opinion on the following card suggestions (some of which I run currently, some of which I have on my maybe-board):
Surrak, the Hunt Caller - I'm sure you agree that the best case is that you cast a Grothama-killer on the turn prior to casting Grothama, and Hunted Troll and Consulate Dreadnought (+ a small 1/1 or bigger creature) are pretty much the only choices here. Surrak could be an additional haste enabler along Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots for when Grothama is on the table before the killer or enters the same turn (plus providing a decent 5/4 body).
Return of the Wildspeaker - Could be a flexible alt./upgrade to Garruk, Primal Hunter, as this has his minus ability (primary reason to run Garruk), has over-run type effect that can even be a finisher if enough bodies are on the field and can be a (expensive) combat-trick to boost Grothama if we whiff on killing him ourselves for some reason (although quite situational).
Brutalizer Exarch Can tutor Psychosis Crawler (or other relevant creature) or remove problem non-creature permanents. Also brutal (pun intended) in the Selvala/Boots/bounce kitty combo as it can imitate a C-rift without creatures board-wipe all non-creatures effectively forcing opponents to tutor for their lost key pieces at the bottom of their respective libraries. 6 CMC is quite expensive though.
Vines of Vastwood Can dodge some problematic creature removal spells, can boost a creature to draw extra 4 cards when killing Grothama and can be a combat trick to boost Grothama of an opponent gets the change to swing at it.

For the next few cards, I will suggest to try to get more bodies on the board as they can help kill Grothama and especially together with Consulate Dreadnought, we really want a small body that we can feed to Grothama.
Gyre Sage Could maybe replace Druids' Repository.
Llanowar Elves (and similar cards) - provide ramp as well as 1/1 bodies. Maybe even Satyr Wayfinder.

Then some land suggestions:
Castle Garenbrig I've been very happy with this card (I also run Nyxbloom Ancient which then gives (6 mana * 3) - (4 mana * 3) = 6 mana, which is amazing :-)
Centaur Garden Somewhat similar to Treetop Village, but enters untapped.
Blast Zone Can give a poor man's Ugin, the Spirit Dragon type effect, without sacrificing much on the mana base as it enters untapped.
Bonders' Enclave Looks really good for this deck, easy to get a 4 power creature on the board.

I saw other mentions of Myojin of Life's Web, I have to say that this has proven amazing in this type of deck for me and it is very close to being a win-con as you can drop so much with it if you have that large hand that we aim for. The Great Henge is also incredible value (I know it is a bit expensive money-wise though).

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts :-) Could also be good to hear your thoughts, @SquirrelToken.

Best,
Liebo
Hi @liebo, great to hear from you!

I think your suggestions have good merit. Surrak is on my list of cards I plan to try as soon as I snag one from a bargain bin. I'm also quite partial to Return of the Wildspeaker; as you well know, I'm a sucker for instants. Brutalizer Exarch is a card I considered, but between the mana cost and the low power I didn't feel it quite made the cut. Vines of Vastwood is one of my favorite cards as well, I love blanking removal. Gyre Sage is very strong, but usually, we don't keep creatures long enough to build up to any really satisfying numbers. I think Bonder's Enclave is reasonable, although I'm not super excited about it. Castle Garenbrig is a great card that I think is a worthy inclusion. I think Centaur Garden is a little weak but am willing to be proven wrong. I like Blast Zone, although it's a little ponderous for my taste. Low opportunity cost, though.

Oh, I know it! I'm looking forward to Myojin quite a lot. The price came down significantly with the Mystery Boosters.
liebo wrote:
3 years ago
Hey SquirrelToken,
I did some more brewing and would love to hear your thoughts on these. Note, these have not really been played that much yet, so it is a bit of a brewing stage right now. Most of these cards are included to optimize the chances of killing Grothama the same turn as she ETBs, as this seems like the best strat for this deck. Usually that one Grothama kill will be enough to snowball the deck into a flourish of mana and card advantage in my experience, so it is important to do this quickly and with high probability:
Oakhame Adversary Good card to get an extra card in T3 and serves nicely as a Grothama-killer when you are short on damage to push it over the edge. Not a horribly late game either as deathtouch is never bad to scare off some opponent creatures.
Invigorate +4/+4 for zero CMC - now only 4 more dmg is needed to kill Grothama (or just boost the killer to draw even more if you already have enough dmg)
Might of Old Krosa Same motivation, albeit worse card as it is 1 CMC
Scale Up Similar to the above two. Think this a fun and flexible card that both can work as a power-up for a creature (I run the elves, so that 1/1 dork is suddenly 6/4) or a power-down of Grothama (changes from a green wurm to a ... green wurm) ;)
Not the primary reason at all, but Invigorate and Might of Old Krosa can also be utilized to buff Grothama when people think that can kill it. A dangerous game to play for sure though.
Life's Legacy See it as a 2 CMC Grothama killer, although 7 mana is then required in on turn if Grothama needs to die same turn as she is played. But then again it serves nicely to with high power creatures like Hunted Troll or similar as a Grothama-esque draw effect (trading creature for card draw),
Phyrexian Soulgorger This card might not be worth it, but I'll experiment with it for a bit. This card plus on dork / low cmc creature to be sacced can be traded for Grothama. Can also be used with Life's Legacy or Return of the Wildspeaker in its own right (and just sacced at upkeep if the latter is used).

Looking forward to hearing from you.
I have a dream of building a budget version of this deck based on these sorts of combat tricks, and a lot of these cards make the cut in that version. I'm currently running Scale Up in this deck, but haven't had a chance to test it yet.
SquirrelToken wrote:
3 years ago
Hey @Kyra Warsong , any thoughts on Battle for Zendikar - I mean, Zendikar Rising - additions? Bala Ged Recovery over a basic Forest seems like a gimme, but I'm on the fence about Turntimber Symbiosis, mostly because seven is a lot of mana, even though it's basically a no-cost include. Nothing else really looks like it works with our game plan.
Hi @SquirrelToken! I think Bala Ged Recovery is a pretty good include, not the best thing ever but I like how easy it is to slot in. I agree with your assessment, nothing particularly exciting for us in that set.

I'm also going to just quick mention that I don't really see anything for us in Kaldheim either. I'm excited about Toralf, but not for this deck.

Sorry for taking so long on a reply. The truth is, I haven't played a single game of Magic since 2019. I'm hoping to change that soon.

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Post by mathdufort » 2 years ago

Kyra Warsong wrote:
3 years ago
I'm actually kind of blown away. It's hard for me to get my head around the fact that someone made a deck in paper - paid money and traded for cards - based on MY decklist. It's more than I ever hoped for when I started working on this. Maybe it's stupid, but that makes me feel really good. Thank you, @@SquirrelToken
Well I gotta say that, of all the Grothama deck lists and guides, yours is the best explained and it's the one that resonated the most with my view of playing MTG. I used your list as a basis for my deck and did some tweeks to make it my own. Thank you for taking the time to do this great guide. My Grothama deck is by far my favorite.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 2 years ago

mathdufort wrote:
2 years ago

Well I gotta say that, of all the Grothama deck lists and guides, yours is the best explained and it's the one that resonated the most with my view of playing MTG. I used your list as a basis for my deck and did some tweeks to make it my own. Thank you for taking the time to do this great guide. My Grothama deck is by far my favorite.
Thank you, @mathdufort! That really means a lot. I was really close to quitting Magic this year. A close friend of mine reminded me of the time and effort I put into this, and reading everyone's comments reminded me what I love about this game. So thank you all for being interested in this little thing I made.

I'm looking at the last few sets and will jot some thoughts down for possible includes, and maybe get a few actual games in.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

It's been a bit of a while since I've heard from anyone else bitten by the Hug Slug bug, but I still have my Grothama and I think we've gotten a few toys in the last couple of sets.

Let's start with the elephant in the room - I replaced a Forest with Boseiju, Who Endures. Because YES PLEASE I would like my lands to have random upside.

I did end up swapping a Forest for Bala Ged Recovery. Because a Forest that can Regrow a key card seems pretty useful.

I pulled a ramp spell for Fight Rigging. This card seems like it was made for this deck - it comes down, and if we've got our commander we can play a thing for free? Yeah, sure. The +1/+1 counters are nice, but this is basically a ritual for something in the top five.

I want to find room for Freelance Muscle, and I'm thinking that I may pull Back to Nature for it. It checks the boxes - kills Grothama on its own while surviving. Wait, that's the only check box this deck has? Huh. Anyway, I don't mind attacking someone with a 14/14 with 10 damage marked on it, with 14 shiny new cards in my hand*. My meta isn't really pillowfort-heavy, so I don't tend to need Tranquility effects, and Boseiju gives me an additional Disenchant.

I guess only four changes (Family's Favor is a big maybe)in a year and a half. I won my last game that I played with this deck, not off the back of Grothama, who ate a ton of removal (someone had a removal-on-a-stick general, and that really put a crimp in my plans), but by playing big green fat into Greater Good and drawing half my deck until I could Berserk an attacker and then Bala Ged the Berserk and do it again.

I'll finish with a question for @Kyra Warsong - if you could create a card from scratch to go into this deck, what would it be? Personally, I'd love a Berserk variant. It's hands-down the best way to close out a game.

* = Results vary by deck randomization. Not all cards are shiny. See store for details.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Bennie Smith posted about his Grothama build today. He claims to be an expert on the Hug Slug. Well, I'm not going to pass judgment on him. He compared his build to "the average" build, which I noticed used a lot of cards that we've discussed here (so major kudos to @Kyra Warsong ). The only card that he dismissed that I think is a mistake to cut is Thought Vessel - it's not just ramp, it's another copy of Reliquary Tower in a deck that frequently draws 10+ cards at a time. He did mention a couple cards that we haven't looked at - Ram Through is a card that I'm not running and probably should be. Seems like just a big ol' removal spell in Grothama. And Unnatural Growth looks like it could be fun.

Then there are the new cards - Titan of Industry, Green Slime, and Monster Manual. He's also got a couple ninjas, but I don't think that they really fit the way that we're building this deck. Green Slime is a utility card, Monster Manual is ... ramp? and Titan of Industry is Big Thing. I don't think that the Titan does quite enough to justify the price tag of 7 mana, but I'm interested in trying the other two.

So that's four cuts that I'm looking for. Will post when I've decided what's coming out.

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Post by Raga » 1 year ago

@Kyra Warsong Well, you've inspired me in my latest deck. Slug hug needs to happen! Any changes more recently?

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

OUT: Druids' Repository
IN: Unnatural Growth

This deck doesn't go wide much. There are two cards that can spawn some tokens, but unless I get the Nantuko or the Call, I'm really not piling counters on this thing. It's all about having one or two extraordinarily large threats, and Growth makes whichever threat I've got way more threatening. Plus it's a lightning rod that might divert removal away from Greater Good, the true MVP of this deck.

OUT: Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant
IN: Green Slime

Once I have a million cards in my hand, I've pretty much won. Doubling my mana is nice, but feels very much "win more" if it's only after I've filled up my hand. I'd rather have a little more targeted removal in case there's a Story Circle or something that needs to die.

OUT: Solemn Simulacrum
IN: Ram Through

Oh Jens Thoren, what happened to your Forestfolk? This used to be an autoinclude in ever deck, and now it's getting cut left and right. A 2/2 for 4 that ramps into Grothama mana and draws a card is ... basically just worse than Rampant Growth, since I rarely want to stick Grothama as soon as I've gotten 5 mana. I'd rather just supertrample over something.

OUT: Myojin of Life's Web
IN: Monster Manual

Sorry @Rumpy5897 , but it was this or Sekki, and I pick the big fat resilient creature that costs 1 less, AND that I can cheat out. I have to pay 9 mana for her if I want to actually take advantage of her Divinity counter, and again that's just way too much. Dumping my hand into play is sweet, but again feels like overkill if I have a million cards and I've already played a 9-mana Indestructible. Monster Manual is ... another way to cheat out big fat green beaters. It might not stay in the deck, but it's definitely worth a try.

We'll see if I actually manage to get any games in with this before Dominaria United comes out and makes me make more changes.

Dishonorable mention: The Tarrasque
No protection from sweepers. No recursion. No regeneration. Very destructible. What a failure. Its biggest thing in D&D lore is that it's impossible to kill! There are so many Magic keywords that it could've gotten to reflect that, and it got ... Ward?

Chase mythic alert: Ancient Bronze Dragon. For 7, we get a 7/7 flying threat that can drop a lot of counters on our best threat. That's not bad, but it's not really what the deck is after. I'm going to pass, but I'll respect it if you (the generic "you", someone who isn't me, you know) want to try it as an additional beatstick, or if you just opened one and want to show off. That's legit, and honestly I wish that this format did that more.

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SquirrelToken
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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Welcome to Dominaria. Time to look at all the potential additions!

Barkweave Crusher - Enlist is interesting, in that it can let one of our larger creatures "band" with the Enlist creature to take down Grothama and not get pasted in return. I don't think that this is the Enlist creature that we want.

Defiler of Vigor - Well, THIS is interesting. Allows us to cast our green fat sooner, and buffs the whole team, which means more damage to Grothama. Definitely worth a second look.

Hexbane Tortoise - This isn't the Enlist creature that I want either.

Linebreaker Baloth - OK, here's where Enlist starts to get interesting. This thing is biggish, so it won't take much help to kill Grothama. Still doesn't survive the crackback, but better.

Silverback Elder - Yeah, I'm actually going to pass on this. The Ape is just kind of value, but it doesn't interact with our engine at all, and we don't have room for cards that are merely good on their own.

Threats Undetected - I don't think that getting the third and fourth best creatures in my deck will help. I certainly don't want to replace a creature with it. Maybe if it turns out that my creature density is too low it'd be worth considering but as it is it doesn't help me.

The World Spell - Cute, but costs way too much for this deck.

Plaza of Heroes - Probably worth upgrading a Forest. I have eight green Legendaries, not counting Grothama. Seems painfully easy to turn on, and it's protection from Blasphemous Act, the nemesis of this deck.

Baru, Wurmspeaker - Ordinarily you'd look at a creature who buffs your commander and spits out 6/6s for GT and say "Yeah, all right!" But I don't actually want to buff Grothama, I want to cash her in for cards. Two Wurms will kill her, but now I've committed three turns to this line of play? If I need to go into topdeck mode on an empty board, I swing with my 10/8 commander.

So, I think that of all the new cards I just pick the boring land that goes in every single stupid deck now. Maybe the Phyrexian Wurm as well - it's basically acceleration on a big body AND it'll buff my team. In fact, let's say yes.

IN: Defiler of Vigor
OUT: Wood Elves
Dang, Wood Elves is one of those generically good speed bump cards, but I can hit Defiler on T5 and then Grothama with backup on T6. This plan seems too good to pass on.

IN: Dumb Landyland
OUT: Forest
I don't have too much basics-matter effects, so running this on an off-chance of maybe letting it save Grothama is just free. I hate that the card exists, but I'll play it.

I got in a game last week and got turn 2 Sol Ring into Fight Rigging, hiding away Ghalta. Turn 3 I played Grothama, put a counter on her, and flipped Ghalta. Nothing says "I'm playing monogreen!" like 23 power on the third turn. So yeah, Fight Rigging is real.

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Kyra Warsong
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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

@SquirrelToken , thank you for keeping this thread alive, you're a saint and I appreciate you.

I spent about 40 minutes writing a lengthy response to this, and lost it to some enraging computer nonsense, so for now I'll say, SquirrelToken has an intimate understanding of this deck and it's wise to follow their directions.

I've been the victim of some pretty significant life upheaval that has kept me away from Magic, to be honest this deck is the only thing that I want to come back for, this game is expensive and I'm much poorer than I was a year ago.

I am nothing if not a survivor, though, and I plan to return to commander nights because dammit I have been away too long and I want to smash my monsters into each other!

Thanks for sticking with the deck, if you're still here. SquirrelToken, again, you're awesome and thank you for continuing to play it.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

Oh, and my ideal card for this deck is a 1 mana equipment with flash, attach this card to a creature when it enters the battlefield, equipped creature gets +X/+0 where X is that creature's power, and if the creature would be destroyed, destroy this equipment instead. We're in magical Christmasland here, so it'd probably get trample as well, and maybe the equipment gets sacrificed at the end of the turn to balance it out? Using the word balance very loosely in this instance.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

I will say I briefly tested Squall Line (cutting Veteran Explorer) in this deck, it was not great, my dreams of a green fireball continue to be crushed by pesky additional words like "each". Similarly I tried Scale Up (cutting Solemn Simulacrum), because I can hardly resist a one mana sorcery. It also underperformed, it didn't do enough as an +4/+2 (let's be real, that's about the average) and was actively detrimental to overload, as it made Grothama only able to take one hit from one other 6/4. I've a stack of cards in front of me I'm planning on cutting.

Cards I'm Looking at For Cutting Right Now
Scavenging Ooze
Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant // Sasaya's Essence
Back to Nature
Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca
Birthing Pod
And the aforementioned
Scale Up
Squall Line

A note here: A looooong time ago, I cut a Forest for Lair of the Hydra, figuring the opportunity cost was low. So far I've not been disappointed, as worst case scenario it's still a land. It's also surprised me as a defensive tool, occasionally jumping in to block when I'm about to take lethal, and occasionally taking out someone's value guy they're just swinging for card advantage. Obviously, the best case scenario is we kill Grothama with our land, and even if we end up losing the land it's still worth the X draw. I wish wish wish it could come in untapped so we could do some Crop Rotation shenanigans with it, but it takes next to no effort to include, so I'll not be picky.

I'm going to update the main primer with my swaps once I've secured them. I absolutely cannot wait to try Fight Rigging, it looks amazing and SO easy to use in this deck.

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SquirrelToken
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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Kyra Warsong wrote:
1 year ago
@SquirrelToken , thank you for keeping this thread alive, you're a saint and I appreciate you.

I spent about 40 minutes writing a lengthy response to this, and lost it to some enraging computer nonsense, so for now I'll say, SquirrelToken has an intimate understanding of this deck and it's wise to follow their directions.

I've been the victim of some pretty significant life upheaval that has kept me away from Magic, to be honest this deck is the only thing that I want to come back for, this game is expensive and I'm much poorer than I was a year ago.

I am nothing if not a survivor, though, and I plan to return to commander nights because dammit I have been away too long and I want to smash my monsters into each other!

Thanks for sticking with the deck, if you're still here. SquirrelToken, again, you're awesome and thank you for continuing to play it.
Oh yeah, I'm still here. See the little silver Mod badge? They won't let me leave. If I tried I'd get skinned alive and my pelt would get used to line a deck box or something.

I'm really sorry to hear about your upheaval. That sucks. I am more determined than ever, though, to drag you back to Commander night so that your Hug Slug can smash face!

On topic and to a more general audience: WarHamster decks have hit, and Old One Eye looks like a solid include - one card that drops a ton of power onto the table and can kill Grothama on its own. However, I personally hate the Universes Beyond aesthetic and will not be adding it to my deck unless and until there's a Universes Within option. Those who wish to use the card themselves, I will not judge, I will simply say that it's not for me.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

I suppose being compelled to stay on pain of death is one way to hold on to mods 😅

Thank you, I plan to smash so many faces! I've played a couple 1v1s, they were quite enjoyable. I did 33 damage in one turn before being infinite comboed out by Jodah 😂

Oooo, I like Old One Eye, I'll definitely be trying that out! If we're doing a 6 drop, this seems a worthy one.

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SquirrelToken
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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

It's already BRO time, so what are we looking at?

Gaea's Gift is surprise indestructible. I don't know if I want it as a permanent addition to the deck, but I definitely want my opponents to think that I always have it in my hand, so that they hesitate before swinging in to Grothama. I'll call it a consideration.

Gwenna, Eyes of Gaea is interesting, and plays into the "crank out fatties" theme, but at the end of the day she's just gonna be some ramp.

That's it. I don't see anything else that really advances our plan. I checked out the Commander decks and then realized "Oh, there's no green here". Scavenged Brawler might not be the worst card in the world, but there are other ways to make our big fat evasive. As expected, a set themed around the destruction of natural resources and the pillage of "the Green area" isn't going to be great for our mono-green deck.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

I was literally just headed here to say "lol, Gwenna, Eyes of Gaea" and not much else.

Reprint Phyrexian Dreadnought you cowards, this is the thematically appropriate set to do it if you're ever going to.

Sorry, I just really want that card back. It's so good in this deck!

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Actually, I was just pawing through some uncommons and realized that there's one card from Unfinity that might fit the bill - Strength-Testing Hammer. I don't know if one extra card per turn is going to help, but we're basically guaranteed to have the biggest creature.

Wait, this is basically worse than Sword of Fire and Ice, right? And we don't run that.

Never mind!

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