Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value

sampersand
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Post by sampersand » 3 years ago

After being away from magic for the last 6 months or so, I've gotten back into it. With a fresh new pair of eyes on my grenzo deck, i'm realizing that a lot of the cards in it are sorely lacking :(. So, i've decided to further double down (quadruple down?) on the digger combo—i've even cut stuff like Crypt Ghast as it doesn't _do_ anything for me! So, without further ado, here's what i've been up to:

Cuts
- Nim Deathmantle: This card never really appealed to me, and I'd kept it in just because the primer said it was useful. Like others have noted, it's far too slow. As such, we only have three ways to get the loop going: soldevi digger (its restriction rarely matters), Epitaph Golem (which is tutorable, nice!), and The Cauldron of Eternity.
- Rapacious Dragon I've always had a soft spot for this, but with the newly spoiled Ardent Electromancer (which will always be yielding 2, generally 3+), this card's been cut. Stadium Vendors still stays because it's a goblin, but the next time a card's printed that can generate 3+ mana on ETB/LTB, it's getting cut too.
- Krark-Clan Ironworks's been cut. It's too unreliable, and with the addition of more tutors and alternate wincons, it's not holding up its weight.
- Corpse Connoisseur's gone—the only thing I ever used it for was anger, and with the removal of nearly all tap abiilties in the deck, this doesnt do anything for us really.
- Both haste enablers Olivia, Mobilized for War has been cut, as there's not enoguh to warrent it.

Possible Cuts
- Phyrexian Altar: I'm not so sure about this, as it's been helpful before, but not _too_ helpful. i'm still testing, but i may cut it in the future.
- A lot of ETB value's been removed, such as Ravenous Chupacabra, Solemn Simulacrum, and Plaguecrafter, as I find myself more of then than not needing to flip another piece of the engine, not a response. meteor golem and duplicant are still present for those times, though.
- I've been considering cutting Kuldotha Forgemaster as it's quite slow, and more often than not we don't need its tutoring capabilities. But i haven't cut it yet.
- Moggcatcher's also nearly cut, as it doesnt help tutor us nearly enough.
- Liliana, Heretical Healer's been cut as it's not useful enough at sorcery speed.

Additions
With all these cuts, what have I added? I've found that the main combo (Grenzo + Sac outlet + mana generator + digger) is quite resiliant, as each part (barring grenzo) has multiple redundancies. The biggest problem comes from the mana generation and sac outlets, as both of them are quite vital to getting it going off (the digger's usually tutored for.) As such, i've tried bolstering them up, along with some other interesting combos.

Sadly, i havent had the time to look for better infinite combos, but i'm definitely in the market lol. So far, i've just been replacing cards I've cut with better alternatives, but i'm definitely still experimenting around with more options.

My ideal goal is to have around 2 or 3 more infinite combos (even if unlikely) that can be assembled, _especially_ if either grenzo or ashnod's altar is disabled.

EDIT: Further clarifications:
I forgot to mention—one of the most important parts of the deck is that it doesn't actually need to assemble an infinite damage combo on its own. Once you get infinite mana, you can play your entire deck out, and then any one of the numerous combos present in the deck will take charge. While it's nice to be able to win early off of cheese like Soldevi Adnate + Thornbite Staff + Meteor Golem + a digger, that's not the main goal. That's why i'm more comfortable adding in one-offs to support these random combos, in case we start with them in hand. After all, we can always just dump our deck out until we get the other piece :P

EDIT 2/3: Here's is my working decklist, but it'll probably evolve a bit over the next few weeks. Below's also the most recent version as of this post:
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

Last edited by sampersand 3 years ago, edited 3 times in total.

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sampersand
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Post by sampersand » 3 years ago

As for chainer, I'm not a huge fan of it personally. Due to how i've built the deck, creatures shouldn't ever really _live_ in the graveyard, as they're going to either be in play, or sacrificed as part of an infinite combo. Plus, all the interesting creatures are generally far too expensive to make me want to cast them anyways.

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

@sampersand, appreciate the update on your list! I've updated the alternate decklist section with your updates. I agree with the synopsis on most of your cuts.

I still swear by Nim Deathmantle, though it seems I'm becoming a minority here with that view. I'll have to swap it back out with Soldevi Digger and see how it feels. If nothing else, it will be a fun trip back to the namesake of the Digger Loop.

Also, I personally like to keep my haste enablers as I run several more tap-activated creatures than you do; and having Chainer there to recur a key creature like Dockside Extortionist can create a huge swing. All that to say, I do enjoy seeing your interpretation and your hard leaning into the Digger Loop. I'll have to put together your list and test it out sometime.

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Post by sampersand » 3 years ago

So I've played a few more games, and with that i've come to a few realizations:
  1. Cursed totem is mean lol. With it in play, barring a miraculous Ingot Chewer in hand, there's not much I can do. The card's not exactly maindeck material for most decks these days, but my friends are learning to put it in more often (most of my decks abuse some sort of activated ability lol), which means working around it has become a bit harder.
  2. . I've done a complete 180º on my opinion towards Nim Deathmantle. I never really used it, and cut it early on. However, it's the sole replacement for Grenzo if he's out of commission. Plus, it's CMC 2, which allows Goblin Engineer to recur it, which is huge (as he's an all-star in my version of the deck). As such, I'm putting it back in, and giving it another trial run.
  3. After adding a few more combo pieces in that require tapping, I've decided to bring back Anger/Olivia, Mobilized for War/Chainer, Nightmare Adept. I need two haste enablers, and i keep going back-and-forth between which ones I want. After cutting Corpse Connoisseur, I'm more hesitant to keep Anger in, so I think i might just go with both Olivia and Chainer (totally sidestepping the debate lol).
  4. I got my Kiki-Jiki in the mail finally (I've been playing this entire time without one!) and I gotta say, it's freaking busted. You can simply copy Pitiless Plunderer a few times, and you'll have enough mana to go infinite—it really expands on the gameplan.
  5. Blues' mean. I've been thinking about how best to deal with it, and I'm now at two instants in the deck: Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. That way, in the more competitive circles I'm building this towards, I can have some way to interact with others, and possibly prevent them from winning. I they're both worth inclusion in any deck that's going to go against 4 competitive decks, if just for redundancy with Cavern of Souls. What're everyone's opinions on these?
Overall, I'm fairly happy with my deck's construction. I got about 90% of the cards nailed down, and the other 10% I've been twiddling with to try to get this deck perfect. Doubling down on the digger loop has really helped streamline my deck—I'm able to forgo some of the more "fair" cards @snowfox54119 plays (eg Mad Auntie, Burnished Hart, Crypt Ghast, Faceless Butcher, etc.) for more combo pieces. By winning in a single turn, I can instead fill those slots with other combo pieces, greatly increasing the possibility of drawing (or flipping) into a winning combo.

Here's some other thoughts I've had on cards:
  • Tel-Jilad Stylus This card's 1 mana, so I'm able to cast it, but it still feels bad. I've never had any of the "put grenzo on the bottom of the deck and bring him back in!" moments everyone talks about. I generally cast him on turn 3, at which point it's not possible to put him on the bottom (as i can't put him back in again). After that, i generally aim to win before he can get targeted again. It's helpful in edge-case scenarios for recurring mana-producing cards until I reach an infinite combo, but meh.
  • I prefer Rakdos Signet. That way, if I have just a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, I can ensure I have the right mana. After all, we only need RB to cast grenzo.
  • I've included Darksteel Citadel because having another target for Goblin Engineer/Goblin Welder is extremely helpful. Idk why others don't include it.
  • I've seen a few people use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Is it really ever that helpful? I find most of my permanents are random devotion; and more often than not, I need to tap out to get the combo started.
More to come! I've also started looking into building a friendlier Grenzo deck because i enjoy it so much that i want to be able to play it casually. I think I'm going Goblin tribal with things like Munitions Expert.

Whew, that was a long post!

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Post by Arkren » 3 years ago

now that zendikar rising is completed, there are 12 red or black flip cards that are also a land. the average grenzo casino deck list has around 16~ basic lands and i think that maybe some of these cards are worth discussing. these are the cards, just for everyone to see plus a small comment on my part on them:

Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt
this one could work, is not really grenzo´s plan, but i doesnt even enter tapped as a land and i can see this topdeck winning us a game with a expensive grenzo on the command zone.

Akoum Warrior // Akoum Teeth
doesnt go with the plan, also, 4 power is too much

Blackbloom Rogue // Blackbloom Bog
doesnt go with the plan, but is an extra creature flip at the cost of a tapped land...maybe?

Hagra Mauling // Hagra Broodpit
expensive removal with a condition that is kind of hard and doesnt do much... i dont see it.

Kazuul's Fury // Kazuul's Cliffs
maybe it kills an opponent if we have a big creature, but what about the other two?

Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire
this one saves a creature, that creature could be grenzo itself, even opponent creatures that maybe want to die, or other opponent doesnt want on the board...triggers ETBS and the like... in my opinion is worth including it

Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns
i dont see it in commander personally, tageting only one opponent is always bad here.

Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass
it does enter untapped... but is too mana intensive and it doesnt even win us the game with infinite mana... sadly this one is not good enough probably

Song-Mad Treachery // Song-Mad Ruins
too expensive to cast... but is also a haste enabler, somethings haste is all you need to go off... but 5 mana is too much

Spikefield Hazard // Spikefield Cave
cool card, but situational and in commander 1 damage makes it even more so

Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge
in my humble opinion, every grenzo deck should run one of these

Zof Consumption // Zof Bloodbog
for the mana it cost, it should give you as much life as the life loss instead of just 4. also sorcery, not good enough

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Post by JBdnr » 3 years ago

I feel like Hagra Mauling // Hagra Broodpit and Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass could be worth it to get rid of problematic creatures such as Hushbringer and Kunoros, Hound of Athreos. Depends on your meta though. I will definitely be testing them. Also greetings to all fellow Grenzo players, first time posting. :D

PS: Also so sad that Tuktuk Rubblefort is not a Goblin. And Demon's Disciple might be worth a look as well if you encounter planeswalkern regularly. It does give the opponent the choice, but I think it is very rarely worse than the likes of Fleshbag Marauder because you want the planeswalker to die most of the time.

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Post by sampersand » 3 years ago

So I thought i'd share some updates and my opinions on the newest set.

After mulling over the Cursed Totem problem I mentioned in my previous post, I stumbled across Embereth Shieldbreaker. This card is great! It's a Smelt that's not a dead draw if flipped from the bottom of your deck. Perfect for what I'm doing! I've also been brewing a little more with infinite combos, but I haven't gotten anything new that isn't really clunky yet. Still searching. (Reassembling Skeleton seems like it could possibly hold some promise, as does Nether Traitor.)

Anyways, onto the set!

My favourite card out of the set by far is Ardent Electromancer. Since grenzo's a rogue and it's a wizard, it's effectively a Priest of Gix/Priest of Urabrask if we have a cleric or warrior in play. As i'm always looking for better ETB mana cards, this looks promising; it's definitely taking the spot stadium vendors currently has.

Other than that, I'm not particularly excited for the new set with regards to grenzo. There's a few other cards, but none of them are right for the cutthroat grenzo I'm designing. (However, they're probably fine for more casual builds!)
  • I feel lukewarm toward Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt at best, as we generally dont want things to be in the graveyard. It's a huge mana commitment, a dead flip, and can generally be replaced with Balthor the Defiled.
  • Base Camp works well because Grenzo, Dungeon Master is a rogue, so it'll pay for him. But, I'd only really consider builds cheaper than mine.
  • @Arkren I'm not a huge fan of the cards that put your hand on the bottom (eg valakut awakening). Not only are they dead flips, but more often than not you wont have a _fully_ stocked hand. You're bound to put some duds on the bottom of your deck, and it's a real feelsbad moment when you have to spend mana knowing you're going to just waste it. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I never was a fan of the hideaway lands in the deck either.
  • As @JBdn noted, Demon's Disciple seems like a strict upgrade over Fleshbag Marauder. I'm still not a huge fan of either, but I'm glad that we have more options to get rid of walkers in a pinch.
  • @JBdn Hagra Mauling seems toow eak to go in the majority of Grenzo decks. I play Murderous Rider, and he does everything you want from the mauling (and is 3 base mana!). And, as icing, he automatically puts himself on the bottom of the deck for you, which means you don't need a digger loop activated to go off.
Anyways, those are my thoughts! I just finished my Gyrus, Waker of Corpses deck as my attempt at a "toned down" version of grenzo, but I'm just not loving it. I'm seriously considering making a more casual grenzo because he's just such a fun commander!

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SlurmsMcKenzie
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Post by SlurmsMcKenzie » 3 years ago

Good evening you beautiful creatures from the dungeons.
It's good to see such a lively discussion going on here.
In my personal opinion the new Zendikar flip cards are very interesting but there's only two i may consider playing.
My main concern with them is that most of them enter the battlefield tapped when played as a land which is a major drawback.
Even though Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge is a very interesting card because you can choose how many cards you want to put under your library and there's many situations where that can be a gamechanger if you stack them the right way. I think it is safe to say that because it is instant card draw in red for acceptable cmc it is a very strong card and i'm going to order a few, if not for Grenzo then at least for all my mono red decks. But i will surely test-drive this card in a basic land slot.
The second card i could see me playing is Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire. This card has a very high flexibility as @Arkren already called out and it's cheap cmc wise. I can see this as protection for Grenzo or as enabler for some combos (maybe just let that Dockside Extortionist re-enter the battlefield after you sac him for value).
The rest just doesn't make it. Even these two will have a hard time making my list because i hate etb-tapped lands but i will try them out for the flexibility.
Stay save!

(Edit)
I love the idea of making a more casual Grenzo deck btw. will be very interesting to see if it gets less hated on ;-)

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

Hey everyone!

Love seeing the discussion going around these awesome new cards. Here is my preliminary review of Zendikar Rising:
  • Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass - I'm a huge fan of the bolt lands as they come into play untapped, so they easily replace basics, and provide powerful alternative effects. They mitigate the fear of running instances & sorceries, because (since they replace a land) they don't interfere with the delicate creature-noncreature ratio. However, I'm not as excited about the red one. I'll probably still pick one up and test it out, but our board would have to be barren and unusable before I'd consider sinking mana into this card.
  • Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt - This bolt land will be included in the list. Obviously the ideal is that you never have to cast it, but having it as a backup to reanimate two combo creatures out of the yard when Grenzo's offline makes this card 100% worth including as a land slot.
  • Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge - The one tapped land card I will for sure be running. It's effect can end games, and it has all the flexibility we could ask for without decreasing our creature count. The tapped land is worth the risk.
  • Hagra Mauling // Hagra Broodpit - Good effect, but we can get the same effect on creatures, and I already went through a massive land base change to remove all tapped lands; too many of them in the deck can make your start detrimentally slow. Tapped land is not worth the risk.
  • Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire - Another good effect, but the tapped land once again makes me hesitant. I'll probably test this one out, however, since it provides solid protection for Grenzo. Tapped land may not be worth the risk.
  • Demon's Disciple - Plaguecrafter's better
  • Ardent Electromancer - Seems fine. If you're running creatures that ETB with only 2 mana, this is a good replacement. I primarily run mana positive creatures, and since this one will only be positive with prior setup, I'm going to personally skip it.
There are my thoughts on the set. Overall, the Party mechanic is cool for limited, but I doubt it will ever make waves in commander. Let me know your thoughts or if there's another card you wanted me to address.

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Post by Arkren » 3 years ago

sampersand wrote:
3 years ago
[*] @Arkren I'm not a huge fan of the cards that put your hand on the bottom (eg valakut awakening). Not only are they dead flips, but more often than not you wont have a _fully_ stocked hand. You're bound to put some duds on the bottom of your deck, and it's a real feelsbad moment when you have to spend mana knowing you're going to just waste it. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I never was a fan of the hideaway lands in the deck either.
i wouldnt put this card in the deck if that mean that i have to run one less creature or land, having a high creature count is vital for grenzo and you cant run less lands and expect to have a good time. but this one card is already a land. you are already running lands in your deck, chances are that some of them enter tapped already, or you are running some basics here and there. so yes, this card is a dead flip, but is replacing a card in the deck that was a dead flip from the start too, so you are not losing anything here. a worst, this card is a tapped mountain in your hand. if you dont have anything in your hand that you want on the bottom you can simply play it tapped, having said that, the effect, the instant speed, it cost only 3, it cantrips... everything is good on that card for a grenzo deck. you can win games after resolving that card. i think that having a tapped land is a small price to pay for all of that, as i have said twice now, i dont see a grenzo deck without this card in the near future unless it skyrockets for some reason.

malakir and the bolt lands are also going to enter my personal list btw, i expect that they are going to work if anything because the drawback if almost non-existen for 2 of them (even if the effect is not used if there is not drawback to having it...) and the third one, malakir, has a good effect. i have been playing with Supernatural Stamina in pioneer and it is a very powerful effect, having it in grenzo as a tapped land is something that im looking forward to.

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Post by sampersand » 3 years ago

Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge

Oh, whoops! I totally didn't realize it could come into play untapped. It's much more useful now, with the fact that we just need 3 life to have it replace a land. One thing to note, however, is that it's not a basic land. Obviously, Blood moon won't hurt us at all with this land (haha), but for stuff like Wasteland you might get nailed. Still not enough of a concern to preclude me from swapping out a basic mountain, though.

My casual Grenzo: Flip the script

I've been thinking about the casual grenzo deck I want to make, and I think I've stumbled across something fairly interesting: We flip the script. Instead of putting in power ≤ 3 combo pieces, we put in massive wincons that grenzo will stick into the graveyard for us. Then, chock the rest of the deck with cards all sorts creatures (power ≤ 3) that can reanimate. (Note that quite a few of these cards have tap abilities, so we should run all sorts of haste enablers, which also helps with our wincons.)

Obviously, this is not going to be very efficient, as we need to pay 10 mana to put 5 creatures into the graveyard. But, it also allows us to ease off a little bit on the massive amounts of creatures we play—cards like Buried Alive, Reanimate, and Sidisi, Undead Vizier become playable. Heck, we can even have wraths! (I think this might also give me a good chance to use some of the random black dredge cards i have lying around, and invest in a few flashback cards too.) This also allows us to invest a bit more in scrying, as now scrying serves as a way to (ultimately) put big creatures into the graveyard for us to reanimate.

The deck certainly doesn't seem to be competitive, but I'm excited to try it out. Let me know what you think of the concept!

EDIT: Combo clarification

So, I thought I'd clarify a few things. First, we still will be running the various digger cards in the deck. Instead of using them to recur ETB combo pieces, we instead use them to recur the reanimators we have—quite a few of them sacrifice themselves to bring creatures back into play. This allows us to make some sort of combo that will dump our entire graveyard into play (and could possibly even go infinite if we could generate black mana). It won't be nearly as efficient as the main deck, as we won't have nearly as much redundancy, need haste enablers, big creatures to target, and a source of black mana.

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Post by Ilikehippos » 3 years ago

Hey, any updates on slotting cards from commander legends like Jeweled Lotus to pop grenzo t1?

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

Hey everyone, it's been far too long, and I'm coming back with a minor update to the list as well as an initial review of Commander Legends!!! So first, here's the update:

Removed:
Mountain & Swamp - removed one of each to make room for the new Zendikar flip lands



Added:
Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt - This card is a great backup tool in our arsenal in case Grenzo's been hated out consistently. We have so many wincons that can be stuck in GY's, so having a land ALSO be a potential out into a wincon is so amazing that it has to be included. It also is an untap land which is extra points in its favor.


Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge - I recently did a mass removal of all tapped ETB lands, but this card had to make an exception. The effect is so particularly good for Grenzo as it can easily setup your next few turns...or it can be a land. Once again, major points for flexibility as well as furthering our goals.



That's all for the update. Now onto...

COMMANDER LEGENDS REVIEW:
Elvish Doomsayer - Fine if you want to hit every players hands and want more discard. There are other effects like it, so nothing special.

Elvish Dreadlord - We don't really like boardwipes, so having one accidentally enter when not needed isn't a good idea

Exquisite Huntmaster - We have better token generators. Maybe with an Ashnod's Altar, we could break parity after casting encore, but still probably not worth the effort.

Eyeblight Cullers - An adequate token generator. But you know I prefer ETB's to ETG's.

Nadier's Nightblade - If you want extra types of these effects, here's another one for you.

Opposition Agent - This one is super interesting. I LOVE the card, but am not sure it fits the deck's playstyle. We can't reliably hit it with a tutor on the stack, and even if you can tutor it somehow to stop the tutor, it might just be better to tutor a wincon instead.

Commander's Plate - Good form of protection, but I'd rather run Whispersilk Cloak.

Jeweled Lotus - And the bomb of the format. Yes, it's good. Is it going in my list? Probably not, for two reasons. First, I think it paints a HUGE target on your back if you get it out too quickly. This deck is already scary enough, and prefers to seem like a harmless "luck-based" deck. Getting Grenzo out on 1 puts the deck on everyone's radar way to quickly. Second, I'm not a fan of the card. I don't believe it's an oppressive, format-defining, meta-warping card, but I absolutely despise the design and don't want to see this concept further pushed. So I'm, for now, effectively boycotting it in my list. But if you have one and want to run it, do it!



That's all for now! There were no interesting red cards as far as this list goes, and overall, I don't see anything that will be making it into the list. As always, if you have another card you think I should take a look at, let me know.


And as a side note: although red was lackluster for Grenzo, it did provide some amazing new goblins in the form of Krark, the Thumbless and Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith. I'm personally building a Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith/Kodama of the East Tree Gruul artifacts deck which I'm super stoked for.

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Post by Ned26 » 3 years ago

First of all let me express how much I love this deck: I have to thank you for letting me discover this gem and I can say I enjoy my personal variation a lot.

What do you think about Nadier, Agent of the Duskenel? I know it is not an ETB, but being a "leaves the battlefield" trigger is considerably better than a "dies" trigger.
With cards like Dockside Extortionist, Pawn of Ulamog, Pitiless Plunderer and so on I think it could be a nice inclusion.

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Post by manugl84 » 3 years ago

Hey snowfox54119:

I'm surprised you didn't mention Juri, master of the revue. Not fantastic, but I think it could be useful to ping a planeswaler, for example.

Loving the deck, my favorite since I built it, keep up with the great work!

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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

Ned26 wrote:
3 years ago
First of all let me express how much I love this deck: I have to thank you for letting me discover this gem and I can say I enjoy my personal variation a lot.

What do you think about Nadier, Agent of the Duskenel? I know it is not an ETB, but being a "leaves the battlefield" trigger is considerably better than a "dies" trigger.
With cards like Dockside Extortionist, Pawn of Ulamog, Pitiless Plunderer and so on I think it could be a nice inclusion.

I'm always so glad to hear others have found a home in Grenzo, so thanks for sharing, Ned26! Nadier, Agent of the Duskenel is definitely one I missed, so here are my thoughts:
  • Nadier, Agent of the Duskenel - I misjudged this card in my initial look at it since I thought it only triggered on creature tokens (which still isn't that bad). This might be worth testing a bit as it can both work as an investment engine for a huge payoff or it can function as insurance against a board wipe.

manugl84 wrote:
3 years ago
Hey snowfox54119:

I'm surprised you didn't mention Juri, master of the revue. Not fantastic, but I think it could be useful to ping a planeswaler, for example.

Loving the deck, my favorite since I built it, keep up with the great work!
Glad to hear it, manugl84! Juri is another one I missed :P
  • Juri, Master of the Review - I don't think this guy is good enough to make the list. He has the potential of doing nothing if he's flipped too early, and even when he's flipped with the necessary board, we already have Deathbringer Thoctar and Goblin Sharpshooter to ping down anything we need (in a more controllable/split-out fashion).

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Post by SlurmsMcKenzie » 3 years ago

I have also found no worthy cards for Grenzo in Commander Legends. But i can confirm that Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire ist a card i will keep in this deck as it saved my day twice already. Maybe i was just lucky to draw it and not flip it. But in my playgroup Grenzo gets so much hate that it helps a lot.

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Post by Raga » 3 years ago

So, I've been literally in love with this deck since before it moved to Nexus and it's still one of the most fun decks I can bring to the table (how can they stop my plan if even I don't know what it is right?!).

I was playing the other day and someone suggest Clone Shell, what do you guys think to it? It potentially gives us three cards on the bottom in order of preference and a free flip when dead.

Also, just had this through the post and needed to share...
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Arkren
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Post by Arkren » 3 years ago

Raga wrote:
3 years ago
I was playing the other day and someone suggest Clone Shell, what do you guys think to it? It potentially gives us three cards on the bottom in order of preference and a free flip when dead.
i use clone shell in my 99, is a good card, is not part of the "i win" of the deck, but it sure is part of the "dont mess with me" plus it also puts some bullets in the bottom. is not my star card of anything but is usually a good flip, if you can kill it you are basically flipping one of the four cards at the top and even if you cant unless that was your last flip you are loading potentially 3 flips.

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

Love the alter, @Raga! As for Clone Shell, I used to have it in an earlier version of the list, but took it out for the same reason I took out the Lorwyn lands. It seemed like every time I used them, I was putting 3-4 cards from the top of my library to the bottom that I didn't want and would have to waste mana to get through.

Personally, I would say there are better cards to run. But you can always test it out and see how it plays for you!

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Post by _Arra_ » 3 years ago

snowfox54119 wrote:
4 years ago
Just completed some big updates to the primer with a new FAQ section, an updated (and rearranged) Deck Philosophy section, some additional credits, and some fun new images!

I'll be posting an update to the list within the next couple of weeks, so stay tuned for that!
Hey folks, I am looking at building Grenzo for mid-high power level. What is the power level of this list? Has the new list been posted? I like the mechanic and don't want to go all-in combo like the Doomsday route but my meta is also nowhere close to being completely casual. As I play only in paper it would be great to gauge strength ahead of picking up the cards I am missing etc.

Does Grenzo have a discord?

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

_Arra_ wrote:
3 years ago
snowfox54119 wrote:
4 years ago
Just completed some big updates to the primer with a new FAQ section, an updated (and rearranged) Deck Philosophy section, some additional credits, and some fun new images!

I'll be posting an update to the list within the next couple of weeks, so stay tuned for that!
Hey folks, I am looking at building Grenzo for mid-high power level. What is the power level of this list? Has the new list been posted? I like the mechanic and don't want to go all-in combo like the Doomsday route but my meta is also nowhere close to being completely casual. As I play only in paper it would be great to gauge strength ahead of picking up the cards I am missing etc.

Does Grenzo have a discord?

Hey @_Arra_! The list is up to date (I'm waiting for the entire set of Kaldheim to see if there's anything else worth adding), and I would put it somewhere around a 7 powerlevel with how fast it can go off. But it is ultimately a luck-based deck, so some games might be much slower and others may be super quick, but I've never had an issue holding my own at a table.

As for a Discord, that's actually a really great idea that I've never thought of...I probably will have to make one.

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Sefir
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Post by Sefir » 3 years ago

snowfox54119 wrote:
3 years ago
As for a Discord, that's actually a really great idea that I've never thought of...I probably will have to make one.
Please don't do it!
Discord is the main reason many forum threads lie dead and forgotten!
With Discord's ability for people to interact much faster than a forum thread, they are used almost exclusively, forgetting that a forum thread has the advantage of storing information (decklists, conversations, etc) that people can look through long time after.....
There are many examples of decks with thriving communities, moving entirely on Discord and their forum threads being inactive for many months....
Zedruu the Greathearted 4-Card Combos Puzzlebox
Gluntch, the Bestower Controlled Hug
Sliver Queen Enchantress
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Saclands
Teneb, the Harvester AntiBlack Pestilence
Dakkon Blackblade Control
Riku of Two Reflections Dragon's Approach
Phelddagrif Hippo Factory Lifegain
Damia, Sage of Stone Casual Food Chain
Minsc, Beloved Ranger Win(nie)s
Thraximundar Zomblins
The Omenkeel Vehicles
Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis Dredge/Reanimator
Hans Eriksson Smash

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snowfox54119
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Post by snowfox54119 » 3 years ago

Sefir wrote:
3 years ago
Please don't do it!
Discord is the main reason many forum threads lie dead and forgotten!
With Discord's ability for people to interact much faster than a forum thread, they are used almost exclusively, forgetting that a forum thread has the advantage of storing information (decklists, conversations, etc) that people can look through long time after.....
There are many examples of decks with thriving communities, moving entirely on Discord and their forum threads being inactive for many months....
I was not aware that was the case for a lot of these and I definitely don't want to detract from the primer. I appreciate the heads up!

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Post by Raga » 3 years ago

Looking forward to your thoughts on Kaldheim @snowfox54119, the only thing that has caught my eye really is Valki

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