Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger Tokens

[MeowZeDung]

So, the random card of the day thread had Martyr's Cry up for discussion yesterday. I don't see it ever being good enough for my build since it hits kykar, could help opponents, and is a sorcery. That said, it is a cheap way to turn spirits into cards, which is at least intriguing. If someone out there in lurker land is building kykar with lots of flash enablers or Mirror of Fate shenanigans it could be neat tech.

Then today I came across March of Souls and I'm still trying to figure out how I feel. Is it just jank? It's not actually a board wipe, and it does hit kykar, but it's definitely asymmetrical in Kykar's favor. Basically a slower, more expensive Mirrorweave that can only target a spirit. I dunno. It could be alright, but there's already several sweepers I'm not running that are quite good, if not always asymmetrical: Slaughter the Strong, Supreme Verdict, Time Wipe, Winds of Abandon.

Thoughts?

[WizardMN]

If Martyr's Cry was an Instant, I think I would easily slot it in. As such, I think the downsides of it are too much and make it not worth playing. It seems really fun though.

I think March of Souls is too much mana and doesn't put us where we want to be. That is, we lose Kykar (as you mentioned), we can't really use existing tokens to help recast him unless we have a bunch of them already or are willing to be left with very little on board, and now our opponents have a bunch of flyers to block our spirits. If the board is set up right to make ours big, great, but I don't think you are running anything to give them trample so the times where your spirits outnumber theirs to such a degree as to just win off it is basically 0. I would rather use the others to get mana from the spirits and then recast Kykar so he is the only one on the field rather than trying to deal with a bunch of other spirits to attack/block.

[MeowZeDung]

Yeah, that's my sense too. I mean, there are cases where it's great to just turn a board full of dragons into spirits and you get to rebuild faster with spirit mana, but it's just too situational.

[Rumpy5897]

Someone, somewhere, some time, will wombo Martyr's Cry with Heaven's Gate and some follow-up jank. I don't think you need it in Kykar land as-is though.

I'm not vibing with March of Souls either. This honestly depends on the meta you're in, but in mine I see plenty of Avengers and other wides in a can. And even if you're already outwiding them, congrats, you're already outwiding them The whole support pieces angle is pretty interesting, but your swarm of sky gum would already get benefit from a True Conviction, Dictate of Heliod or whatever else. It would work well with a wide board and a freshly delivered Cathars' Crusade, but that seems a bit narrow.

[MeowZeDung]

Narrow is the word, thank you. When it's good it's great. Usually just meh though.

[Rumpy5897]

Just to finish off the prior Martyr's Cry musings - the best thing you can add on top of Heaven's Gate is Notion Thief. And then you've spent three cards to assemble an exile-Decree of Pain that a few of your creatures will survive. Yay?

[MeowZeDung]

It's about the craftsmanship of high art, not commercial success, ok? :laugh:

[MeowZeDung]

With Sakashima the Impostor getting a reprint recently and shedding around $15 off it's price tag, I picked up a copy and want to try it out here. Frankly, I think it's a strict upgrade over Docent of Perfection // Final Iteration since two Kykars on the battlefield will result in insane token and mana production. I kind of disregarded doubling Kykar with Helm of the Host because of the cost, and Spark Double was only going to be good with a mentor or Kykar in play. Sakashima, however, is fine even when I'm in a bad position because I can just copy the biggest nasty in play and bounce when I want to redeploy as Kykar #2.

Adding Sakashima also makes Haze of Rage a slam dunk because of the infinite with two Kykars and Anointed Procession that @tstorm823 pointed out several posts ago. I'm temporarily going to swap out Absorb to make room because it's the worst of the counterspells in the deck, but frankly I think the correct choice is either Knowledge Pool or Narset of the Ancient Way. That said, I haven't gotten a chance to play with either yet, and I want to test them each a few times before I pull them out.

7/30/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

IN (2)

1 Sakashima the Impostor

1 Haze of Rage

OUT (2)

1 Docent of Perfection

1 Absorb

Approximate Total Cost:

[MeowZeDung]

One other note: I just saw that double masters will include a Mana Echoes reprint, which is a great kykar card if you have the budget for it and want to storm endlessly. Here's hoping the price drops significantly.

[tstorm823]

One other note: I just saw that double masters will include a Mana Echoes reprint, which is a great kykar card if you have the budget for it and want to storm endlessly. Here's hoping the price drops significantly.

Woah! I got my copy of that a million years ago for like $1.

[MeowZeDung]

Woah! I got my copy of that a million years ago for like $1.

I got into magic around M14/RTR and I wish I would have had a clue and snapped up a bunch of staples and goodstuff back then. Now there's cards that get reprinted regularly and never seem to drop in price, like Land Tax, Enlightened Tutor, etc.

[EBrock]

I gotta get me a haze of rage lol

[MeowZeDung]

I got a fun Kykar victory put in the books this afternoon against Drana, Liberator of Malakir and Tajic, Blade of the Legion soldier tribal. The long and short of it is that I had Narset of the Ancient Way in the opener and made it my personal mission to ult her. Unfortunately I missed a couple of lands after the fourth land drop and hesitated to put her out there for fear of not having enough protection for her. Once I did get her out, I activated her +1 two turns in a row and had a bunch of bird illusions and spirits to protect her, but Tajic got through with a Spectra Ward and dropped her down to 2 loyalty.

With the Narset ult "lulz" gameplan out the window, I settled on Knowledge Pool and wasn't disappointed. I hit mostly lands, Vampire Nighthawk, Goldnight Commander, Lena, Selfless Champion, and Ponder with its ETB trigger. I had Path to Exile and Brain Freeze in hand for cheap cast triggers to push spells out of the pool. I cast PtE to get a Goldnight Commander, then Brain Freeze to get a Ponder, trigger token creation twice (an absolutely delicious feeling), and pump the team twice. I forget what exactly I got off the Ponder, but it's irrelevant. I just cast a few more cheap things for storm count, tokens, and pump, plus the Path to Exile to get rid of a ginormous Drana. Turn stuff sideways. Win.

I think Knowledge Pool is going to stick around. Stealing spells is sweet. Turning 1 mana cantrips into battlecruiser spells is delightful. It's pretty close to a 6 mana draw 5-12 (in a four player game assuming 40-60% land hits), and doubling up on cast triggers for noncreature spells with Kykar out is bananas.

Narset. Sigh, Narset. I absolutely will ult this lady before I take her out of the deck. I'm just not sure if it's wise to keep her after she has her moment in the sun, whenever that may be. The mana from her +1 was relevant, and sometimes the lifegain might be (though it wasn't today). Her -2 is okay, but there's much better removal available. Maybe my head was just in magical Christmas land when I included her. For the effect it might just be better to put Niv-Mizzet, Parun in, although I'm unlikely to ever do that to be honest. Ah well. I'll see how it goes with her in my next few games.

[MeowZeDung]

I wanted to float a couple of ideas out and see what y'all think:

First and foremost, Mystic Gate got a reprint and I'll be snapping that up for the collection very soon. Solid upgrade that I've wanted for a while now. Fabled Passage too.

I'm one of these fools that still thinks they might just reprint fetches in "Zendikar Again, Again" and insta-ban them in standard. Even if they don't, I'm pretty sure one of the big-wig WotC dudes mentioned that there would be more fetches beside the secret lair drops this year. Whether that's in Zendikar Rising or not doesn't matter to me; I just want Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn to have a price drop. All this is to say, I've got some credit to burn with TCGPlayer currently, but won't use any on the dumb fetchlands yet because I'm holding out for a reprint.

Thus, I might go ahead and invest in a Kindred Discovery soon. It goes in multiple decks of mine and would be good here.

In the meantime I'm considering adding in Gift of Estates to grab lands and Winds of Change to blow up hands (holy geez, I'm fairly certain I got Winds out of a bulk rare box for a buck or something a few years ago. It's $30+?!?!? EDIT: Ah, the 4th Edition version I have is like $15.). I've already sworn I'll ult Narset of the Ancient Way before I give her the boot, but one of these will probably take her spot.

I've also been captivated by Borrowing 100,000 Arrows. If only it weren't a sorcery. It can be silly with Turnabout. Unlike Keep Watch however, I have hardly any control over it being good or not except in the Turnabout case, and if I shuffle up against one or more creature light decks it will just be bad.

Thoughts?

[Rumpy5897]

Yes, Kindred Discovery big seal of approval. It's a wickedly good card, and I can't imagine having a sea of flying spirits being bad with it in any capacity. Also good lands are good.

Never was a fan of the various Land Tax progeny, just stick with the original if possible it's in 2XM, so should hopefully dip a bit. Doesn't your own hand also get stuffed by Winds of Change? Seems risky, as you can also foce-mull into trash and be out of the game. Unless you intend to play it out later, on a bigger hand, and I'm stuck thinking of it as a chaos card that Nekusars bust out turn one.

Borrowing 100,000 Arrows looks largely inferior to Keep Watch, unless there are tons and tons of mana dorks or various tapping taxes within your group. And Keep Watch is honestly already on the situational side.

[toctheyounger]

Thus, I might go ahead and invest in a Kindred Discovery soon. It goes in multiple decks of mine and would be good here.

I'll throw my support behind this. If it pulls its weight for zombies it'll pull its weight here. And it pulls far more than its weight for zombies, it's so good I've been in clear danger of decking myself with it before.

[MeowZeDung]

Never was a fan of the various Land Tax progeny, just stick with the original if possible it's in 2XM, so should hopefully dip a bit.

I'm inclined to agree, but I'm pretty light on basics here. I guess worst case scenario for a token trigger and not much else later in the game isn't the worst thing though. That said, Gift of Estates triggers more token engines and it grabs shocklands and Irrigated Farmland/Raugrin Triome.

Doesn't your own hand also get stuffed by Winds of Change? Seems risky, as you can also foce-mull into trash and be out of the game. Unless you intend to play it out later, on a bigger hand, and I'm stuck thinking of it as a chaos card that Nekusars bust out turn one.

Yeah, I wouldn't T1 this thing. I look at it more as flood/screw insurance a bit later that also messes with opposing hands. It's a nifty way to turn a full grip from something like Whirlwind of Thought into a deep dig into the library for a Idyllic Tutor, Gamble, or Underworld Breach, for example. Also, it can functionally be another Burning Inquiry for the combo with Breach once I start escaping it instead of casting from hand. I don't know if that's necessary though, which is why I'm focusing on the fact that it's a cheap spell that a spirit sac can cast to potentially hose multiple opponents. The problem is it could help them too.

Y'know... I'll have to think about it more, but Winds of Change could just be a strictly better Burning Inquiry since it doesn't punish me once I start escaping with Breach. Hmm... food for thought.

EDIT: NVM I'm dumb. It doesn't discard.

Borrowing 100,000 Arrows looks largely inferior to Keep Watch, unless there are tons and tons of mana dorks or various tapping taxes within your group. And Keep Watch is honestly already on the situational side.

Agreed. I have bad onset cases of best cast scenario thinking disorder where I remember all the Commander games I've played where a situational card like this would have been stupid good. It won't make it in the deck though.

I'll throw my support behind this. If it pulls its weight for zombies it'll pull its weight here. And it pulls far more than its weight for zombies, it's so good I've been in clear danger of decking myself with it before.

Yeah, budget has been the only thing keeping me off of Kindred Discovery. Once I get it I guess I'll swap out my new toy Teferi's Ageless Insight for it just because it's more reliable.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, budget has been the only thing keeping me off of Kindred Discovery. Once I get it I guess I'll swap out my new toy Teferi's Ageless Insight for it just because it's more reliable.

Insight has been good for me too, being honest. Haven't had a massive play with it yet, but it's well costed for what it does. I guess it's just that Discovery does a similar thing but with a much more itchy trigger finger.

[MeowZeDung]

Yeah, budget has been the only thing keeping me off of Kindred Discovery. Once I get it I guess I'll swap out my new toy Teferi's Ageless Insight for it just because it's more reliable.

Insight has been good for me too, being honest. Haven't had a massive play with it yet, but it's well costed for what it does. I guess it's just that Discovery does a similar thing but with a much more itchy trigger finger.

Oh, insight has been fantastic for me in multiple decks. It does have the potential of being awful though, and Discovery really doesn't, unless I topdeck it without Kykar or any spirits in play, in which case I'm already likely losing and needed a board wipe anyhow.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, budget has been the only thing keeping me off of Kindred Discovery. Once I get it I guess I'll swap out my new toy Teferi's Ageless Insight for it just because it's more reliable.

Insight has been good for me too, being honest. Haven't had a massive play with it yet, but it's well costed for what it does. I guess it's just that Discovery does a similar thing but with a much more itchy trigger finger.

Oh, insight has been fantastic for me in multiple decks. It does have the potential of being awful though, and Discovery really doesn't, unless I topdeck it without Kykar or any spirits in play, in which case I'm already likely losing and needed a board wipe anyhow.

Agreed, it does need the native additional draw to really shine.

[MeowZeDung]

I'm always keeping an eye out for unconventional but powerful draw spells so I'm not just running cheap cantrips and loots in Kykar; something that could outperform a Fact or Fiction for example and thus be worth the mana price tag. Has anyone had any experience with Plagiarize? I feel as if it could be stellar in the right situation. I mean, I've seen Notion Thief and Consecrated Sphinx do busted things, and this is kind of up that alley.

My problem with it is that a lot of the CA in my meta comes in single card increments: Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder draws one at a time off of Smothering Abomination or Erebos, God of the Dead; Tayam, Luminous Enigma does the same with Wirewood Symbiote/Elvish Visionary or any creature + Beast Whisperer; Gishath, Sun's Avatar doesn't draw in one big go usually, but rather gets CA from flipping dinos off the combat damage trigger, and when it doesn't it's drawing off of stuff like Garruk's Packleader or Elemental Bond; etc. etc. The point is that I don't feel like it would be remotely close to worth responding to a single trigger of this sort with Plagiarize, and opponents can play around it pretty easily once it has resolved, so it's kind of only great if you do it in response to some big draw 5+ effect. I just don't know if there are enough of those in my meta to justify it, but it is awfully enticing.

Thoughts?

[Ardeyn]

I guess Plagiarize is in a similar place as Narset, Parter of Veils, Smothering Tithe and Alms Collector: best used with your own wheels / symmetrical draw.
Could be nice with the afore mentioned Winds of Change.
However, nice just isn't enough and Narset, Tithe and Collector are just better.

Ardeyn

[MeowZeDung]

Could be nice with the afore mentioned Winds of Change.

This is true, and it would be a reason to run stuff like Narset, Parter of Veils, but eviscerating hands and locking people out isn't where this deck wants to be.

Yeah, I don't think plagiarize gets there unless you're in a meta full of Blue Sun's Zenith and Hydroid Krasis or what have you. It kind of surprised me really to realize how much of the powerful draw, at least in my meta, comes in the form of lots of little 1-2 card bursts rather than huge one time draw effects. Even for this list the majority of the draw is from cantrips, loots, and stuff like Skullclamp, Jeskai Ascendancy, and Whirlwind of Thought. I suppose I'll just get that Kindred Discovery as soon as I realistically can and be happy with that as a big CA spell.

Also, as I thought about it more, I think I'm off the idea of Winds of Change. Perhaps in a more competitive meta where it would really be worth it to blow up hands and keep the curve absurdly low, but I just don't see it being more than a much worse Gamble for me here. Now, my Shabraz, the Skyshark and Brallin, Skyshark Rider deck will probably run it, but it also runs Consecrated Sphinx and Smothering Tithe.

I still really like the idea of Gift of Estates. One of the troubles, albeit minor, that I have consistently faced in this deck is being pinched on blue and white mana in the mid to late game when I want to chain a lot of spells together. Being able to get a Hallowed Fountain, Raugrin Triome, and Irrigated Farmland in hand solves that problem, keeps me hitting land drops, and is solid card advantage. I might even toss Prairie Stream back in the deck to keep the target count high.

Also, I'm thinking about adding Dramatic Reversal. I run plenty of rocks, and when the cards start flowing in the mid/late game it's not uncommon to drop 4-5 of them, so this could be a mini Turnabout ritual for a value/storm turn. The real reason to add it though is because of Underworld Breach. If Breach sticks it's often game over, but on some occasions I've resolved it as a last ditch effort to dig for an answer/win con and come up short by just a couple of mana. Dramatic Reversal can solve that problem and make Breach even better. I just don't know how often it would be necessary, and I hate to cut a card and include Reversal for an extra layer of redundancy that might not be needed. It will require some testing.

I know that I don't want this to become an Isochron Scepter combo deck though. However, if anyone out there in lurker land wants to be "that guy", Tribute Mage and Spellseeker can set you up with Reversal/Scepter, along with the usual 1 mana tutors and stuff like Fabricate and Whir of Invention. Or, you could be truly awesome and resolve Firemind's Foresight getting Whir of Invention, Dramatic Reversal, and Swan Song, then whir up your scepter and initiate your combo with Swan Song protection.

Last but not least, I want to at least explore some more options among 1-2 cmc red instants since they are close to being "free" spells with Kykar. Honestly, I think if one were so inclined they could build a solid Kykar control deck with a lot of these red utility spells allowing them to play a version of draw-go with little to no mana open. Some decent-ish candidates are listed below, although I am aware that most are probably too narrow or not good enough in my current build. Still, it's good to always be on the lookout for some sweet synergy, and even some mediocre spells might be worth it if they are "free":

SPOILER

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• Artifact Blast
• Crush
• Firestorm
• Hearth Charm
• Incite
• Into the Fray
• Magnetic Theft
• Outnumber
• Pyroblast
• Reckless Rage
• Red Elemental Blast
• Rending Volley
• Rites of Initiation
• Scorching Winds
• Smelt
• Surge of Zeal
• Abrade
• Battle Hymn
• Blitz of the Thunder-Raptor
• Burnout
• Dangerous Wager
• Desperate Ravings
• Final Fortune
• Fists of Flame
• Increasing Vengeance
• Reroute
• Reverberate
• Shredded Sails
• Sudden Shock
• Thrill of Possibility

Lots of these have cute little synergies and utility purposes and can be responsible for some big blowouts. The ones that pique my interest the most are the Pyroblast variants, Battle Hymn, Final Fortune, Increasing Vengeance/Reverberate, and Thrill of Possibility. I could see Magnetic Theft, Rites of Initiation, and Abrade being solid too. Sudden Shock could stop a combo in its tracks, which is always worth something I suppose.

Lots to think about for Big Bird, as always

[EBrock]

I currently play Pyroblast [/card] in my deck. We were playing a three person game tonight. One deck was Korvold, Fae-Cursed King [/card] and the other was Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord [/card]. It was a dead card this evening. Not to mention, I had it in my opening hand twice tonight, oof lol. I should have mulligan'd, but, it was usually after a few already and there were lands in those hands. These games were hard, because in a three person game, Kykar was constantly being targeted, it was hard to keep him on the board. I literally needed Teferi's Protection [/card] to keep him on the field at one point tonight.

I have to admit, I bit the bullet and got some 2xm cards that went down in price. So I'm going to add Mystic Gate [/card] Cascade Bluffs [/card] and Rugged Prairie [/card]. I also picked up Austere Command [/card] and Cyclonic Rift [/card]. Im not really sure if I should add cyclonic, but, as a new player it will definitely help me close out the game. I also got Mana Echoes [/card]. That card is going to do work, as well. I feel kind of bad for getting cyclonic, because it is a card you buy to win games, but, I really wanted a copy of my own and, I thought, now was a good time.

[MeowZeDung]

Congrats on the new cards @EBrock! It's always fun to build on to the collection.

Speaking of which, my impending purchase is going to include Mystic Gate, Fabled Passage, and Kindred Discovery, but I have some more budget to burn and I'm not sure how to do so.

Mana Echoes is a fantastic option.

Land Tax is great, and I've been looking at going a bit more basic heavy for a while now and hoping to make Mystic Sanctuary great. At its worst the tax is a one mana cast trigger in the late game, which is by no means awful.

Windswept Heath and/or Polluted Delta. Sigh. Might be the correct use of my budget, and they certainly enable Mystic Sanctuary. Blargh though. Stupid lands.