Nadaar's Adventure

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago



This commander should be a little lower power level than I normally go for but I think the venture into the dungeon mechanic is interesting and beyond that I think that having a commander who is an anthem is underrated not to mention that he probably also triggers me some other card advantage. Some of the challenge is going to be keeping him alive as the game goes later on a 3/3 without evasion can easily encounter situations of no profitable attack options.

I ended up going for a token strategy as I felt like it was the best way to take advantage of the +1/+1 from my commander. My plan with the command as of right now is to probably head into Phandelver to start every game as I want to complete a dungeon quickly then it will be a little bit of a question of how useful looping that vs going for Mad Mage is.

When I started building this deck I started really hard focusing on an ETB focus with flickers and such but I quickly realized that I felt like I was overly forcing it. Some things like Evangel of Heliod seemed kind of cool but required a lot of board build up to really function. In the end I scaled back and kept a few that at a minimum could throw my commander around but I decided not to go super deep on that concept beyond things where my commander + it seemed acceptable.

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COMMANDER (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

Last edited by ISBPathfinder 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I was looking at building Nadaar, I'm surprised anyone else gave him a second glance lol. Did you consider Galepowder Mage for an extra blink option? Bit clunky with equipment, but gives you a nadaar attack trigger + etb trigger without needing to actually risk him in combat.
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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I was looking at building Nadaar, I'm surprised anyone else gave him a second glance lol.
It's hard to want to when Sefris of the Hidden Ways exists. But, I gave it a lot of thought before building Sefris.

@DirkGently Do you suppose Flickerform is just too slow for this to work? Also, this might be the deck for Commander's Plate because of that juicy evasion.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I was looking at building Nadaar, I'm surprised anyone else gave him a second glance lol.
It's hard to want to when Sefris of the Hidden Ways exists. But, I gave it a lot of thought before building Sefris.

@DirkGently Do you suppose Flickerform is just too slow for this to work? Also, this might be the deck for Commander's Plate because of that juicy evasion.
I've built sefris, and despite going meme mode with eidolons and no good reanimation targets it was still pretty damn strong. Nadaar seems like a good way to do dungeons at a lower power level.

Flickerform is slower than what I'd probably like. Good with wipes though?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I was looking at building Nadaar, I'm surprised anyone else gave him a second glance lol. Did you consider Galepowder Mage for an extra blink option? Bit clunky with equipment, but gives you a nadaar attack trigger + etb trigger without needing to actually risk him in combat.
Its a little lower powered than I normally go for but I like mono white and we have had some issues at my meta lately where there is a lot of disparity between deck levels. You get these new guys with decks barely modified from precons playing against these decks that might push a combo win on like turn 5-7. There is a lot in between that too but I need something a little more relaxed occasionally for some of the newer guys I guess lol.

Galepowder Mage was something I was thinking about. My first draft went heavy on ETB and I even looked into death triggers and sac outlets as a focus briefly. In the end I wasn't satisfied with the ETB approach as a full attempt thing mostly because it felt like it required too many things in play to build it up appropriately. I had a lot more things that spawned tokens based on my devotion and or the number of non token creatures I had in play and it all felt like it was going to require me to overbuild for mono white as well as just hope to not walk into sweepers.

I ended up cutting way back on the ETB abuse and while I was at it I also cut some of the lesser flickers. I think the mage is probably somewhere in between that could be run but its slow. I ended up cutting it in the end but it likely could make the list as well. I just have a hard time with derpy creatures that have to live several turns and have setup to get away with generating a small bit of value. In my mind it was a worse prospect of value than the Hero of Bladehold type creatures as far as value return.
Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
I was looking at building Nadaar, I'm surprised anyone else gave him a second glance lol.
It's hard to want to when Sefris of the Hidden Ways exists. But, I gave it a lot of thought before building Sefris.

@DirkGently Do you suppose Flickerform is just too slow for this to work? Also, this might be the deck for Commander's Plate because of that juicy evasion.
I get what you mean with Sefris but I also don't think its fair to compare 3 color decks to mono white. In that situation you really rarely should be in mono white. I get what you mean though but I also think its quite a different strategy even though they are both based on venture into the dungeon. This commander's built in anthem effect is actually really relevant for a token strategy. Curving the commander into something like Hero of Bladehold or Emeria Angel is a lot of power really fast especially with how fast he can finish his first dungeon. I get you on being a little bit of a weaker mono white commander but I have been having issues having a less cuttroat deck on hand for the more casual guys.

Flickerform - Its a liability in that it ties more value to removing the target in response or after I tap out. Its putting more eggs in one basket than I want given how the commander isn't actually a ton of value if flickered I think 4 mana and offering a 2 for 1 on myself is further than I want to go. I do have Eldrazi Displacer in the list but it splits the threats and its a 3 mana creature which gives me some rez options for it as well.

Commander's Plate - I think its fine to run. It is however a pump / evasion effect with no card advantage to it. I think its likely that I would consider more Swords of X and Y over it given that they can still provide evasion but also some card advantage. I likewise could go in on something like Darksteel Plate or Armored Ascension as additional means of keeping my commander alive and or giving evasion. A lot of the ones I went for already were ones that could cantrip and or provide sustained card advantage. There are a lot of options I could go with if I just want to keep my creatures alive in combat and or give evasion but some of my concern with a lot of those is that they don't replace themselves in hand. If I kept expanding it would probably start with more Sword of X and Y probably leaning towards Fire and Ice first. Angelic Destiny is the one card in my list that I brought in that is primarily evasion / pump but I felt the size of the buff as well as giving flying really made an offensive and defensive move for my commander. It quickly gets my commander to seven power and gives evasion and that for me is somewhat of a sweet spot number as its a three turn clock. It is an aura but it also has a recovery plan to itself and a 7/7 flying vigilant first striker is really controlling of combat. I guess this is me saying that yea I think Commander's Plate is reasonable, I just think there are a lot of things that compete with it when you get into things that focus on evasion / pump / protect. I started with focusing on ones that I felt would give me a good return on investment beyond just keeping my commander alive and swinging. I think continuing into this concept I would start with more swords as somewhere I would start.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Outcryqq wrote:
2 years ago
Gift of Immortality might be a good card for this deck.
I looked into this as well :D

Lifeline / Nim Deathmantle were also similar cards that I was looking into when I looked into death triggers as a concept. I have constantly had an issue with mono white death matters though in that there aren't that many sacrifice options so you get a little big hamstrung in that you need ways to sacrifice to make it really worthwhile. Some things like High Market can sacrifice but can't maintain it enough to use it on everyone else's turns. Mono white has something like two enchantments with free repeatable sac and then you are stuck with artifact sac outlets which while they exist.... there are a few good altars and then the good sac outlets fall off fast.

In a nutshell I felt like while there are some powerful death trigger options my issue was that they felt too reliant on having good sac outlets as well. I felt like both sides of the sac outlet and the payoff felt a little sub optimal on their own. I have very infrequently gone into death triggers in mono white but it tends to be when I have a commander that can sacrifice themselves like say Lena, Selfless Champion where you really only have to lean into the payoff effect because you have reliable access to something that can sacrifice. Lena is kind of nutty BTW if you have never seen a list for her with something like Gift of Immortality.
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Post by Outcryqq » 2 years ago

For Gift of Immortality, I don't even think you need to have much in the way of sac outlets or death triggers. At worst, it's a way to guarantee safe attack triggers, even late in the game when you dont have quality choices to attack with your commander. With a baseline of guaranteeing "get one venture every attack phase", and best-case-scenario of "venture one every turn", I think it's a solid choice. Probably as useful as Pentarch Ward or Unquestioned Authority.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Outcryqq wrote:
2 years ago
For Gift of Immortality, I don't even think you need to have much in the way of sac outlets or death triggers. At worst, it's a way to guarantee safe attack triggers, even late in the game when you dont have quality choices to attack with your commander. With a baseline of guaranteeing "get one venture every attack phase", and best-case-scenario of "venture one every turn", I think it's a solid choice. Probably as useful as Pentarch Ward or Unquestioned Authority.
You aren't incorrect that you don't have to have sac outlets for Gift to work. It likely would give Nadar some staying power on its own but if he gets chump blocked or let through for three damage it still isn't all that impressive to me. On top of that exile removal, bounce, and grave hate all still interact with this card. I am not saying its not something I could do but I think it competes with a lot of other cards if you are looking at it primarily as a source of getting him to attack and trigger his adventure into the dungeon mechanic.

The auras I am currently running are mostly based on the fact that they draw a card as well as give him some measure of protection. Auras are very dangerous in that they can easily play you into a 2 for 1 but most of the ones I am running offer me a cantrip and a means of attacking potentially where he otherwise might not be able to. I could still get blown out by them but generally as soon as they are in play I am happy with their outcome where as I am not as sure about something dedicated just to allowing my commander to attack.



Ok, so I managed to play this deck against a buddy of mine in some 1v1 games. Neither of our decks were really built for 1v1 so it was mostly a fair setup. I did find out that apparently this deck is more aggressive than I had anticipated but this was also 1v1 games rather than multiplayer FFA so I have to take that with a little understanding that it won't be the same for where I plan to play it. One of my best games ended up just being curving from Nadaar, Hero of Bladehold, Angel of Invention and just ran him the hell down lol. Most of my games weren't that aggressive but a lot of games ended by turn 7 or 8 where I either stalled out by then or overwhelmed my opponent. This sort of thing will be a lot harder to pull off in multiplayer though. I found myself looping Pandelver as my venture most of the games but games were also shorter due to filling sort of an aggro 1v1 role rather than trying to run down everyone.

Some valid information that I got in testing. First of all, oh man I could use more draw. Its a shame that monarch looks a little out of reach for this deck given that I don't really have all that reliable of evasion or capability of defending it. Its possible I could still go for monarch but I would probably have to be picky about it using the flyer and enchantment for token gen rather than just using a bunch of them I would have to focus in on ones that could lend me defenders / evasive threats. I also noticed that a lot of the pay mana for tokens felt a lot clunkier than I was hoping for and I think I am going to cut back a little on the ramp to big mana concept even though I think it still plays well to some of the X mana spawn I think my mana in for tokens out concept is going to be cut back somewhat.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Leonin WarleaderDecree of Justice Warleader and to some degree Hero of Bladehold can both be awkward cards when they aren't just strictly curved out. I sort of gave the Hero a nod in that it buffs as well allowing it to keep going but I feel like these creatures are kind of slow in that they lack haste and also often require some assistance once boardstates bog down with bodies. I do have some things that can keep them going as a lot of that also works on my commander I just don't know that its the axis I want to fight on to be honest. I want to push a bit harder on some of the X angel spawn stuff in part because my meta has been shifting kind of hard towards a lot more interaction for spot removal but lacking as many sweepers lately making me want to have some effects that make strong tokens that don't need much for assistance. Also I like that Decree can also cantrip and make wide bodies rather than tall ones. We will see how I choose to cast it as historically I have only used it with cycling but I think either way I want to test it some.
  • Sun TitanEntreat the Angels I felt like I was a little light on targets for Sun Titan here. I am not running that many creatures so I felt like I was mostly left with maybe a few equipment which he could recover. Lacking fetchlands and being creature light just left me feeling like maybe this wasn't the list for him. I want to push to do some testing with the X angel spawn effects to see how I am liking them. I can always bring back mr titan I just felt like this wasn't quite the list for him.
  • Gauntlet of PowerCast Out Gauntlets are decent but they are also a bit slow to set up and big targets for opponents. I just prefer cards that cost less and do more immediately I guess. Paying five mana for an anthem that everyone wants to blow up is sort of so so for me. I wanted more removal as well so lets toss in some cast out action.
  • Fanatical DevotionCitadel Siege I thought I was going to like the sac to regen option more but I didn't find that I cared for it much. I like what Citadel Siege can do as far as pumping up my commander though and I like that it can just keep passing around those counters as long is it lives. It makes for two threats on very different axis that leave my power kind of spread out which I like. I could just go for some equipment to give evasion but I think I like the idea of escalating power repeatedly even if it lacks evasion most of my objective with my commander is just to keep him attacking rather than caring too much about if he connects or not.
  • EphemerateSword of Fire and Ice I realized I just couldn't really get behind blinking stuff once or twice. I strayed too much from the ETB value package and my commander on his own isn't going to make me happy enough with this. If I can blink a Wall of Omens twice I think I am happy with that but I don't really want to use this card on my commander and that's when I decided to cut this. Fire and Ice is good draw and it gives a little more evasion even if the colors aren't ideal for evasion it can still potentially get me in.
  • Eerie InterludeAngel of the Ruins Similarly with Ephemerate I just decided to axe most of my one shot blink. I wanted a little more interaction and while adding Angel does give me another target for blink I don't think its enough to keep me in on it. I like the angel from the standpoint that it plays to reanimation and flickers well and I still plan to have a few of the better flicker effects in the deck.
  • Kor CartographerUnexpectedly Absent with cutting more of my flicker package I felt it was time to remove Cartographer. Unexpectedly Absent has been good removal for me in the past.
  • Burnished HartArchon of Coronation swapping some slow ramp for draw. I am not convinced with monarch but I like how Archon can defend it and or try to attack and get it back.
  • Eldrazi DisplacerCourt of Grace cutting more of the flicker for more draw. Still not sure about monarch but Court of Grace seems to play to what this deck wants to do so I guess it gets a nod for now.
  • Oketra the TrueTragic Arrogance Oketra was ok for me in one of my games but it was more off of the back of a Sword of Feast and Famine with double strike than anything. I think while it can be ok that the tokens and utility it offers are a bit narrow for this deck. I do anthem tokens but the cost per token and utility of this card as a whole wasn't doing it for me. I have always liked Tragic Arrogance as a sweeper and I like how I can sculpt the outcome of it. This deck doesn't seem like one I am overly fond of sweepers for but I need to see how a little more control and draw goes for me.
  • Sacred MesaCosmos Elixir Sacred is something I have used in the past for some big token things. Its really dedicated to late game token production though and I don't like it until I have tons of mana. I could still use it here but I found it a little weaker than when I used it in the past with some more dedicated win conditions like Mirror Entity. Ultimately most of my anthems are a bit weaker.
I have my eye on some of the big mana stuff. I still want to get some good mana due to how many big X mana angel spells I have in here but I think rather than rushing for mana its better to just have some more interaction and draw and hope I can survive longer rather than running for some fast angels. I still think I am watching some of the other big mana stuff as I didn't cut Caged Sun for instance with this but it might yet go but I wanted to keep testing a little longer before abandoning the gauntlets entirely. My testing so far was just 1v1 stuff which isn't great testing but allowed me to see some things in action and led me to worry about having enough interaction and draw.

EDIT: hummmm deck count comes to 101 cards. I guess I will have to figure that out later.
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