Volrath, the Necrotic Experiment

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

I've been brewing up Volrath. I tried Dark Kraj and got it wrong, then tried Sultai good stuff.. Now I'm back to Dark Kraj! It seems fun as, I took a Kraj deck and added in some black but it still doesn't 'feel right'. I wanted to include some more graveyard populating and some fun cards like Mirror-mad Phantasm and Myr Propagator. The hard bit so far is getting the right balance between picking cards that Volrath can also use, and not relying too much on Experiment Kraj, because he can get taken out pretty easy. I have backup with Necrotic Ooze at least.
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Typical combos are in there for Kraj, and Volrath has some combos such as Argothian Elder / Krosan Restorer + bounce land or cradle + any of the untappers. Got a backup with Kiora's Follower + Illusionist's Bracers, but only one X spell (Blue Sun's Zenith). There's quite a few ways to draw the deck but not through Volrath currently.

I was thinking of taking out some of the draw to sub in Buried Alive / Jarad's Orders / Final Parting. and maybe replace some combo pieces with less redundancy and rather let me dig and populate my graveyard with cards such as Grisly Salvage. Lotleth Troll might be real good too.

Any suggestions would be absolutely welcomed!
Last edited by Slipperygecko 4 years ago, edited 5 times in total.

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xeroxedfool
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Post by xeroxedfool » 4 years ago

Why run Skullwinder? It seems worse than almost any other recursion card. I notice you have Scheming Symmetry as well. These cards could be Eternal Witness and Vampiric Tutor but I guess that might put your deck into the 80% range. You could run Regrowth and Insidious Dreams or even Seasons Past and Diabolic Revelation. These more expensive options could help with the issue of flooding. Personally, I dont like political cards unless the pilot is pushing that theme more.

Your deck is a pretty legit mix of good staples and cards that work well with your commander. I think it looks pretty good from here.
They're both Griffith, get it?

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

Hey, thanks for the quick reply. You're totally right they are significantly better, I should've mentioned we play mostly Kingdoms-variant EDH in our meta as it makes for shorter games. It also very much encourages politics and I took a political-spin with this deck. It's why I included Pir's Whim and Tempt with Discovery. I was thinking of maybe popping Gonti, Lord of Luxury or Ashiok, Dream Render as a rude play to go with the symmetry :)

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

Edit: Removed this as I changed the deck yet again haha. I have updated the original post, seems like it's the common thing to do in the forums (mostly lurked, new poster).

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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

Put a huge update in the initial comment, was largely inspired by viewtopic.php?f=24&t=916 :)

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

Deck changes - I found there were times I had Necrotic Ooze and combo pieces in my hand and wanted some in the yard, so I tried to give me some cards that would help with that. Added more tutors too.

- illusionist's bracers
- pemmin's aura
- fathom mage
- quicksilver elemental
- gilder bairn
- painful truths

+ grisly salvage
+ underrealm lich
+ lotleth troll
+ dimir house guard
+ final parting
+ sylvan library

Sharpened
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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

2 artifacts that stand out to me that you probably should be running:

The Great Henge
Cauldron of Souls

Your list feels in a weird place. Almost like it's not quite streamlined enough to be competitive, but too streamlined to be fun. The graveyard stuff also feels out of balance, like it should either be less or more (I'd lean towards less).

I think the thing that strikes me is that Volrath, the Shapestealer is a fun card. It's fun to have in play, both with the tricks you can do with him with your own creatures, and even better, the opportunity to do fun things with your opponents. This version of your list feels like it's not overly interested in playing with him.

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

Honestly you're totally right and have put into words how I've been feeling about the deck, so thank you! I picked him because he seemed lulzy and fun, but then ended up building stuff around him that was more about trying to fetch up Necrotize Ooze // Experiment Kraj to play with my Rube Goldberg machine. Before that it was building sultai good stuff and didn't even seem to make sense having him helm it. The graveyard thoughts came from Sidisi decks (but make a lot more sense with that commander) and Mimeoplasm, which is relevant but different.

He's been a hard commander to build around because golgari is -1/-1 and simic is largely +1/+1 counters, so they kind of contradict each other a bit. I was contemplating a "persistocrats" route with -1/-1 and have a "sub-commanders" in Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons and Yawgmoth, Thran Physician as they have such great synergy and give a backup plan, then having some good-stuff in there for funsies (clones, copy on hits, attack triggers, those kind of value-in-copy creatures).

It's just hard because Sultai gives so many options as does he, so trying to pick what to go with has been the hard bit, and I have changed my mind a lot haha. I love those artifacts and cut Henge because of trying to focus, and indeed it does lose the fun stuff. Also have been trying to find a place for Cauldron in all my decks so it would make sense to try to include it here.

Out of curiosity, how do you go about approaching deck structure in the way of deciding what synergies / path to pick with a commander? I wonder if this might help me focus him.

Sharpened
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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

So I've been sort of mentally constructing a deck, but haven't put anything together, but let's go over the thought process and talk about the basic ideas that I have and see if we can't construct a starting point.

Starting point: Why Volrath, the Shapestealer? What are we trying to make/accomplish?

He's neat and I want to use him. Not a deck that is just his colors; doing things with the commander is the goal. Opportunities with opponents creatures are great, and we'll want them, but those are outside of our direct control. If you want to have toys to play with, the best bet is to always bring your own. We'll want creatures that Volrath wants to Shapesteal, and the ability to do so. We'll also want ways to protect him and keep him on the battlefield. So there is the starting point.

So the thing that separates Volrath from being a typical clone, is that he becomes a 7/5 of whatever creature he copies. What are the ways in which that matters,

Quick Note: Infect is one obvious answer. I can definitely see building an infect deck out of Volrath, but that doesn't appeal, so none of that right now.

You have various saboteurs that give you effects based on how hard they hit:
Cold-Eyed Selkie
Needle Specter
Dreamstealer
Cephalid Constable

Some protection and neat abilities:
Aetherling
Thornling
Predator Ooze
Protean Hydra - It's not indestructible, but does make Volrath basically immune to damage
Master Biomancer (Double Duty - an awesome copy target as well as counters on your dudes)
Viridian Joiner
Tracker - might be too weak
Abyssal Hunter - also might be weak
Heroes' Bane - Chameleon Colossus is a second option for this effect, but you have to copy a nonblack creature, THEN copy it to use it's ability.
Champion of Lambholt

Cards that make sure you have counters on your boys to copy (Our biomancer buddy is already covered):
Forgotten Ancient
Loyal Guardian
Hadana's Climb
Unspeakable Symbol
The Great Henge

So if that's the core of what we are doing, what's the decks strategy?
Play dudes. Buff dudes. Copy dudes. Smash in hard with both commander and dudes. It looks like we can make it so if our Commander hits in combat, we can obliterate our opponents hand or board, or simply make him monstrously huge. While not purely a voltron thing, we can also go pretty wide and have a lot of our creatures be rather large and smash that way.

So if that's the strategy, we build out from there with Support (ramp, and other supplemental effects), Protection, and Disruption.

Interesting Disruption for our opponents creatures that works with what we are doing:
Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Necroskitter
Serrated Biskelion
Harbinger of Night

Protection that works well with what we are doing:
Cauldron of Souls
Inspiring Call

From there it becomes about finding what fits, what ramp and the like serve you well, what needs to be trimmed, what good stuff staples you want to play, and a lot of personal taste. Do you go with a lot of tutoring to make sure you can pull whatever you need out of your swiss army knife, or do you forego tutoring for a more unpredictable experience where you may have to 'Macgyver' together an answer?? You can add some more combos, like Melira, Sylvok Outcast and things that work well with her, or game ending smash effects like Tooth and Nail for Craterhoof Behemoth (although that appeals less to me).

That's my thought process on the core of what I'd want to do with the deck. He feels like a big dude who wants to smash, with the ability to do interesting tricks to disrupt, survive, or just hit harder. Straightforward enough to have a clear game plan, but adaptable and unique to find fun new tricks everytime.

Slipperygecko
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Post by Slipperygecko » 4 years ago

I love it! Thank you for the detailed response :) You're totally right here, Volrath was picked for his fun ability, sweet colours and a whole boatload of available great cards. I've put together a diff deck in this theme (this is like my.. 4th or 5th go now? I'll get it right someday). The general idea is to build ridiculous board states and win in a few diff ways.

I have included some silly cards for funny states, notably Magnetic Web. By itself, pretty average card, however with Volrath he can both use it to copy something, and also use it to combine with Phyrexian Obliterator. I didn't go for some of the expected cards Cold-eyed Selkie or Cephalid Constable - they're amazing cards combined with Volrath, but also 1/1s, so without an enabler they can just end up sitting there doing not much of anything (because we can't use Volrath to put a counter on them, or they die).

I am trying out diff cards such as Leyline Prowler as we get good keywords and also ramp on it, in a pinch we can use Volrath's ability to get access to those. Ideally it's better to have counters on everything to give us options, that also means reducing other cards to keep enablers around. I am trying to juggle it all so things will prob change the more I play it.

There's a nasty interaction with Black Sun's Zenith and Necroskitter where we can steal the whole board (whilst losing our creatures), and Haptra, Vizier of Poisons + Yawgmoth, Thran Physician is also there as a combo to wipe the board + draw into a big bomb.

I have purposefully avoided cards like Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth as I play them in other decks, also they are ETBs so we'd need myriad like Blade of Selves to get value from Volrath on them, or combine with Nacatl War-Pride would be hilarious. We make Volrath a copy of Nacatl, attack, with that trigger on the stack transform him into an ETB creature and then we get a huge amount of ETB value. Instead I tried some cards I've never played with but have in my binder such as Lord of the Void. On-hit combines well with multiples such as Caller of the Pack (myriad) or again with Nacatl, as there could be a lot of copies of Volrath.

I went down the path of less tutors and more big draw as I wanted games to be more variable (I have a lot of other decks with many tutors and like to differentiate things), but there's a lot of expensive creatures and draw in there so it has to be able to hold its own. In order to do that it has a mammoth amount of ramp. Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth basically removes commander tax and we have tutors for them, and with untappers like Kiora's Follower, Voyaging Satyr and Kiora, Master of the Depths generating big mana should be easy. I have contemplated an outlet for it such as Biomass Mutation to close things out, or maybe Finale of Devastation to get Pathbreaker Ibex. Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire are obvious potentials, just I have them in other decks and want something different.

Anyway here's the deck - would love to hear whatcha think of it.
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