Niv-Mizzet, Parun - Curiosity Killed Everyone

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MrHadouken
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

Niv-Mizzet, Parun. This card is what inspired me to start playing EDH, along with the fact everyone in my playgroup started playing their own decks.

So after a while playing this deck, I've had taken different approaches. The deck started as a Spellslinger Izzet good stuff, using cards like Thousand-Year Storm.
Then switched to a more controlly combo deck with the likes of Curiosity, Ophidian Eye and Tandem Lookout, which all loop infinitely with the general. and some minor stax with cards like Torpor Orb.
Until recently, I've had a version of this Deck that ran Guttersnipe, Electrostatic Field, Thermo-Achemist and Firebrand Archer for their interaction with Curiosity/Tandem Lookout/Ophidian Eye; and while it was really fun, it was not the better way to run it.

So, I went for this build I'm currently using.
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

The Combos:
  • Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal + 2 or more mana generated from Mana Rocks = Infinite casts. This lets us either draw our entire Deck with our Commander. Of course, when you have more than 2 mana worth of Mana Rocks, you can just make infinite mana. This combo wins the game by itself, since you can just make infinite mana to put down your general, draw your entire deck with all the castings, and use the infinite mana to play cards like Echo of Eons and redraw it over and over.
  • Attach any of the 3 combo cards to Glint-Horn, and once you discard a card either by attacking or any other effect, you'll deal 1 to each opponent and draw cards equal to the amount of opponents.
  • To win with this, you need to find a way to get 8 or more cards in hand (again, with this, you'll draw several cards from 1 discard). Either Glint-Horn's ability or any other card that let's you discard. Windfall, Fateful Showdown, Tolarian Winds, Frantic Search or Pull from Tomorrow also help. I say this because Glint-Horn Buccaneer needs to survive until the end of your turn, where the combo really goes off, and attacking might not always be the best option.
  • During the cleanup step, you'll have to discard down to 7 cards in hand, and this will trigger Glint-Horn, dealing 1 damage to each opponent for each card discarded, therefore triggering Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Tandem Lookout, and you'll draw cards up to or equal to the number of opponents x the cards discarded. This new stack will resolve and the game will proceed to another cleanup step, where you'll discard down to 7 cards again, rinse and repeat.
  • It is highly important to remember that the card draw from this combo is exponential. Everytime you discard, you'll draw 3 times the amount that you discarded, so on an so fourth. This isn't really a problem when Curiosity or Ophidian Eye is attached to Glint-Horn Buccaneer, since their draw effect is optional and you can manage those anyway you want. With Tandem Lookout, however, you have to make sure you have enough cards for the triggers and have a way to stop the draw. For this, you'd have to remove the Tandem Lookout somehow during the stack, before the damage triggers get Tandem Lookout drawing, but not before Glint-Horn does the damage. There's Pyroblast, Blink of an Eye, Into the Roil, Rapid Hybridization, Commit // Memory for that. I'm considering Submerge because 99.9% it is free in m playgroup.
Where I need help:
  • In what ways can I make this deck more consistent with keeping the control/combo theme online. What cards am I missing under de 100usd price?
  • That said, I've been thinking about implementing other similar cards to Mana Geyser that generate Reset, Reality Spasm, and/or Turnabout, since they by themselves serve as play extenders by themselves but also go infinite with Reiterate (Buying back and copying the mana generators, copying them in the stack, generating infinite mana). Not sure if it's worth it given the big amount of initial mana you need.
  • Adjusting proportions. I'm not sure if I should run more/better card draw, or more/better answers like Pyroblast.
  • We avoid using individual cards with a cost above 100usd, except for fetchlands. Force of Will is a special case.
Other options
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  • Snapcaster Mage - It used to be in the Deck, but ultimately took it out for Mission Briefing. The body on the battlefield is nice, but Mission Briefing gives me the value of surveiling to filter the top and/or get other targets for it, is an Instant, which triggers some effects, can be imprinted into Isochron Scepter (not that you'd do it a lot but the option's there), and more importantly, it lets you use alternative costs of spells (like Overload on a Cyclonic Rift, Kicker on Into the Roil, etc, something Snappy can't do. That all said, recurring counters or card draw is never a bad thing.
  • Primal Amulet - I'm not too big on the fact that this doesn't make any impact as it hits the board. When it gets to flip it's hilarious, but that's pretty much it. If anything, Ral, Storm Conduit does this job better.
  • Reverberate/Expansion // Explosion - Until I find more good synergies with these outside of the one infinite Combo with Ral, Storm Conduit, I feel they are pretty underwhelming. It's sometimes funny to copy an opponent's spell, and Explosion providing a good kill option with enough mana sounds enticing, but I feel as though the Deck itself would have to change for this to be optimal.
  • Thousand-Year Storm - I would absolutely love to run this card, but 6cmc do nothing enchantments are not really what this Deck is looking for.
  • Submerge - It has the advantage of letting you trigger the Niv Mizzet + Curiosity Combo for no mana cost, saves you from dying if you happen to make the Glint-Horn Buccaneer + Tandem Lookout combo, and serves as decent removal, especially in the playgroup I'm where all Decks happen to run green. I just can't quite find a good place for it.
  • Chain of Vapor - Literally forgot the card existed and will be adding it to the deck as soon as I acquire it.
I'll appreciate any feedback on this build. Thank you
Last edited by MrHadouken 4 years ago, edited 11 times in total.
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xeroxedfool
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Post by xeroxedfool » 4 years ago

I dont have a lot of experience playing with or against Niv-Mizzet, so some disclaimer there.

I think you could cut OG Niv-Mizzet. While it does go well with a lot of your cards, it seems redundant. You already have that type of card in the command zone.

Disallow could be a cheaper to cast spell. I think Negate, Arcane Denial, or Mana Drain. I know Mana Drain is close to your budget restriction. I think its powerful enough to warrant the cost but that ultimately is up to you.

Dig Through Time is probably worth a slot. It is great when looking to combo off. I think its better than Fateful Showdown and Electrodominance.
They're both Griffith, get it?

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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

xeroxedfool wrote:
4 years ago
I dont have a lot of experience playing with or against Niv-Mizzet, so some disclaimer there.

I think you could cut OG Niv-Mizzet. While it does go well with a lot of your cards, it seems redundant. You already have that type of card in the command zone.

Disallow could be a cheaper to cast spell. I think Negate, Arcane Denial, or Mana Drain. I know Mana Drain is close to your budget restriction. I think its powerful enough to warrant the cost but that ultimately is up to you.

Dig Through Time is probably worth a slot. It is great when looking to combo off. I think its better than Fateful Showdown and Electrodominance.
Hello there! Thanks for the feedback!

Taking out OG Niv might sound like a good idea at first, but since he is easier to cast than Niv himself, and can come out when the Commander tax is annoying, having this "second copy" of the commander might be something I can't change. Most importantly since he also goes infinite with Curiosity.

On the argument for replacing Disallow for a lower costed counter: I've been thinking of it. I might test it out since CMC tends to be really important with this Deck. Being able to counter abilities or spells has proven important for me, though.

I definitely need to find room for Dig Through Time. I often keep forgetting that card exists.
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

If you want to get really technical then it pays to match up cards with potentially more synergy.

Isochron Scepter - even though this is mainly in for Dramatic Reversal, you can make sure that you maximize targets for this in your 99. An example of this is look at some of your spells that are > 2 cmc and are there cheaper to cast options or even sorcery that could be replaced by instants?
Chaos Warp - Chain of Vapor, Unsubstantiate, Into the Roil
Counterflux, Disallow - Arcane Denial, Delay, Dispel, Negate
Shattering Spree - Hurkyl's Recall

Chain of Vapor, Unsubstantiate, Into the Roil, Hurkyl's Recall are more tempo based, but often these are enough to win. They can also be used on your own permanents saving them from removal themselves. But they also allow you to bounce the Isochron Scepter itself so that if you've drawn into the Dramatic Reversal you can then recast it.

Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top benefit from as many shuffle effects as possible, and your deck is woefully short on them. Fetch-lands are your easiest bet although of course they are expensive to buy but an optimal deck would have; Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Arid Mesa, Myriad Landscape.
What search library cards might you play to better enable these cards? Merchant Scroll, Gamble, ...
Note that Scroll Rack doesn't even draw cards so you won't get any triggers for Niv-Mizzet, Parun.

I'm not super hyped on your spells cause damage cards like Electrostatic Field, Firebrand Archer, Guttersnipe, Ral, Storm Conduit, Thermo-Alchemist.
If you want to kill players with the combo, then I feel you are better off with cards that recycle your library to get the damage in.
Sure you can play one or two of them (creature damage) out and cast 12 instant and sorcery over the course of the game naturally and deal some damage, but it's usually not enough to really pressure opponents. Your deck isn't even really setup for big storm turns outside of the combos anyway.
So depending on what you can afford; Commit // Memory, Time Spiral, Game Plan, Time Reversal, Timetwister, Day's Undoing.
So instead of the damage creatures, I'd play library recyclers instead. You can draw your deck, then cast one of these to reset and just keep doing this killing all opponents easily.

You've probably already noticed that Saheeli, Sublime Artificer and Young Pyromancer under-perform, i.e. they don't have a big impact on the game. You're probably lucky if they produce 5 tokens over the course of most games. You don't even have a way of using the tokens for value other than blocking.

I feel that with Electrodominance and Finale of Promise you want at least one easy payoff spell. Wheel of Fate and Ancestral Vision come to mind. You can cast Electrodominance or Finale of Promise for X=0 and still cast these.

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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
If you want to get really technical then it pays to match up cards with potentially more synergy.
Before anything, thank you for this response. I appreciate the help a lot and this does give me a lot of new things to try out here.
The point is for the Deck to be in the middle ground between just dumb fun and actually trying to win, but that's mostly a playgroup thing.
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
Isochron Scepter - even though this is mainly in for Dramatic Reversal, you can make sure that you maximize targets for this in your 99. An example of this is look at some of your spells that are > 2 cmc and are there cheaper to cast options or even sorcery that could be replaced by instants?
Chaos Warp - Chain of Vapor, Unsubstantiate, Into the Roil
Counterflux, Disallow - Arcane Denial, Delay, Dispel, Negate
Shattering Spree - Hurkyl's Recall

Chain of Vapor, Unsubstantiate, Into the Roil, Hurkyl's Recall are more tempo based, but often these are enough to win. They can also be used on your own permanents saving them from removal themselves. But they also allow you to bounce the Isochron Scepter itself so that if you've drawn into the Dramatic Reversal you can then recast it.
And here I was looking for things to replace Chaos Warp with. I did consider Into the Roil and/or its twin Blink of an Eye, but totally had forgotten this interaction with the scepter.
I will be keeping Counterflux mostly because of flavor, but also because not being able to be countered proves useful.
Chain of Vapor is another one of those cards that I keep telling myself to get and end up forgetting to order!
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top benefit from as many shuffle effects as possible, and your deck is woefully short on them. Fetch-lands are your easiest bet although of course they are expensive to buy but an optimal deck would have; Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Arid Mesa, Myriad Landscape.
What search library cards might you play to better enable these cards? Merchant Scroll, Gamble, ...
Note that Scroll Rack doesn't even draw cards so you won't get any triggers for Niv-Mizzet, Parun.
I was indeed thinking of adding a good amount of fetches to this deck precisely because of this. Especially on Scroll Rack's case. I do understand it doesn't trigger Niv. I found Scroll Rack to work for me "sometimes" rather than everytime, since its use here is different from a more effective use for it like Elsha of the Infinite, which I'm building. I might take it out for that.
My playgroup had put a rule for "only 3 tutors per Deck". I'm still debating whether to run Gamble over say 1 of the Transmuters.
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
I'm not super hyped on your spells cause damage cards like Electrostatic Field, Firebrand Archer, Guttersnipe, Ral, Storm Conduit, Thermo-Alchemist.
If you want to kill players with the combo, then I feel you are better off with cards that recycle your library to get the damage in.
Sure you can play one or two of them (creature damage) out and cast 12 instant and sorcery over the course of the game naturally and deal some damage, but it's usually not enough to really pressure opponents. Your deck isn't even really setup for big storm turns outside of the combos anyway.
So depending on what you can afford; Commit // Memory, Time Spiral, Game Plan, Time Reversal, Timetwister, Day's Undoing.
So instead of the damage creatures, I'd play library recyclers instead. You can draw your deck, then cast one of these to reset and just keep doing this killing all opponents easily.
I totally understand this, and I agree. My plan is to later down the line run a much more focused build running cards like the recyclers you mentioned, with the likes of Winds of Change,
among others.
However right now I'm running these guys (the creatures) to have fun with the chaotic nature of sticking a Curiosity on the and go off from there. I am aware this side makes the Deck less optimal, and you option is far better.
That said I do think that their power alone is not enough to be so highly focused on it, so I think I'll be taking out one of those creatures.
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
You've probably already noticed that Saheeli, Sublime Artificer and Young Pyromancer under-perform, i.e. they don't have a big impact on the game. You're probably lucky if they produce 5 tokens over the course of most games. You don't even have a way of using the tokens for value other than blocking.
I agree. Saheeli does have the added bonus of being able to make one of the tokens a copy of Gilded Lotus among other funny interactions. They do feel underwhelming the more I play the Deck.
darrenhabib wrote:
4 years ago
I feel that with Electrodominance and Finale of Promise you want at least one easy payoff spell. Wheel of Fate and Ancestral Vision come to mind. You can cast Electrodominance or Finale of Promise for X=0 and still cast these.
And then again another interaction I forgot about, especially on the side of Ancestral Vision which is literally a card you'd always want to play. Thank you for reminding me this.

Thank you for taking the time to give me feedback. I will indeed switch the theme of my Deck to a more functional hand cycling/recycling build focused on Niv's combo, because I agree it's the better way; but for a while I'll have this one Counterburn kind of theme. Some of these limitations are also because of my playgroup that, while picking good generals, are quite casual on the house rules, so I took the advantage of the "powering down" to add this dumb theme.

Anyways, I'll be sure to update the deck based on your great suggestions, especially on the synergies.
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

Changelog 25/9/19

-1 Chaos Warp
-1 Disallow
-1 Fire Diamond
-1 Firebrand Archer
-1 Young Pyromancer
-1 Island

+1 Into the Roil
+1 Blink of an Eye
+1 Tale's End
+1 Narset's Reversal
+1 Commit // Memory
+1 Myriad Landscape
  • For Into the Roil and Blink of an Eye it's all about the synergy with Isochron Scepter and having good removal for 2cmc, that can draw me a card if anything. I will be switching one of those for a Chain of Vapor, though.
  • Commit // Memory was added to the list because it provides a removal piece/pseudo counter, on top of having a hand recycle ability on its Aftermath. What's not to love?
  • Myriad Landscape I actually always had it in the build but didn't put it in the list on this site.
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Post by NZB2323 » 4 years ago

Some cards I would recommend:

Answers: Mana Acceleration: Other: Narset, parter of veils with Windfall, Echo of eons, time reversal, or Commit // Memory results in you having 7 cards in hand and each opponent having 1 card in hand.

Jace and Lab Man make you win the game when you run out of cards. It's also a way to win in case an opponent gains infinite life, or has something like Urza's armor which protects them from Niv.

Expansion can be used to copy demonic tutor, explosive vegetation, Utter End, decimate ect. Twincast and Reverberate can copy those spells plus more powerful ones like Windgrace's Judgment, Expropriate, or Bribery.

Ray of Erasure/thought scour can mess up your opponent after they cast one of these:
Merchant Scroll can search for Force of Will to protect yourself, or it can deter your opponent from attacking you by pulling an aetherspouts or aetherize.

Gamble can be used to search for Curiosity, and chances are you won't discard it.

The rest of the cards are kind of self explanatory. Let me know if you want to know why I like them so much. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is the first card I would cut. It cost the same amount as your commander(6!), and you have to wait a turn until he can tap, just like Thermo-Alchemist. In general I would cut creatures. Unless you're comboing off you want this deck to be a draw-go deck so you can defend yourself during your opponents turns, and give yourself options. Besides your commander, the only other creatures I would keep would be solemn simulacrum, dockside extortionist, and tandem lookout. I would also cut Ral and Saheeli. Commander's Sphere and Coalition Relic I would cut as well because they're expensive for mana rocks.

I'm not sure that the Mana Geyser + Finale of Promise is worth it in a deck that makes people shuffle their graveyards into their libraries with cards like Commit // Memory and echo of eons.
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

NZB2323 wrote:
4 years ago
Some cards I would recommend:

Answers: Mana Acceleration: Other: Narset, parter of veils with Windfall, Echo of eons, time reversal, or Commit // Memory results in you having 7 cards in hand and each opponent having 1 card in hand.

Jace and Lab Man make you win the game when you run out of cards. It's also a way to win in case an opponent gains infinite life, or has something like Urza's armor which protects them from Niv.

Expansion can be used to copy demonic tutor, explosive vegetation, Utter End, decimate ect. Twincast and Reverberate can copy those spells plus more powerful ones like Windgrace's Judgment, Expropriate, or Bribery.

Ray of Erasure/thought scour can mess up your opponent after they cast one of these:
Merchant Scroll can search for Force of Will to protect yourself, or it can deter your opponent from attacking you by pulling an aetherspouts or aetherize.

Gamble can be used to search for Curiosity, and chances are you won't discard it.

The rest of the cards are kind of self explanatory. Let me know if you want to know why I like them so much. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is the first card I would cut. It cost the same amount as your commander(6!), and you have to wait a turn until he can tap, just like Thermo-Alchemist. In general I would cut creatures. Unless you're comboing off you want this deck to be a draw-go deck so you can defend yourself during your opponents turns, and give yourself options. Besides your commander, the only other creatures I would keep would be solemn simulacrum, dockside extortionist, and tandem lookout. I would also cut Ral and Saheeli. Commander's Sphere and Coalition Relic I would cut as well because they're expensive for mana rocks.

I'm not sure that the Mana Geyser + Finale of Promise is worth it in a deck that makes people shuffle their graveyards into their libraries with cards like Commit // Memory and echo of eons.
I'll respond accordingly for almost each card:

On the Answers:
Pongify/Snap - I suppose you mean to cut some cards to add these on top of the other answers, rather than to replace them. I like them indeed. I might find space for them because creature removal is important in my playgroup, but with Rapid Hybridization just being another copy of this, I don't see it as such an important inclusion. Snap, on the other hand, has the benefit of being technically free and net you mana with Izzet Boilerworks (not that it matters).
Vandalblast - I'm actually thinking of replacing Shattering Spree for this. Artifacts aren't as relevant in my playgroup which is the reason I'm only running the 1 artifact removal. Vandalblast is just generally better.
Rewind - While also technically free, the usual holding of 4 mana doesn't tickle my fancy. I'd have to test it but not a fan of it.
Stubborn Denial - Issue with this card is that it only works when Niv-Mizzet hits the board. It's great protection, but I normally prefer to run counters that work without having my general out.
Pact of Negation - I've been debating on this card for a while. On one hand the "drawback" doesn't hurt if you are winning that turn. on the other hand, it really hurts when it applies.
Force of Negation - Mostly because my playgroup is so creature heavy is the reason I don't currently run this card. Also not being able to use the alternative cost during my turn irks me highly.
Aetherize - I used to run this card and had replaced it with Evacuation. I had it taken out because my playgroup was going out of attacking too much, but I might put it in again to see how it goes. I sometimes think Illusionist's Gambit would work better.
Aetherspouts - Or this one, rather than Aetherize.
Charisma/Basilisk collar - I find Niv Mizzet doesn't survive for long enough to be able to use these cards effectively. I had Basilisk Collar for a while and only once was I able to get value off of it with Niv, and ironically it was the OG Niv.

On the Mana Acceleration:
Arcane Signet/Midnight clock - Honestly not here because the card hasn't come out yet.
Wayfarer's Bauble/Walking Atlas/Solemn Simulacrum - Haven't ever tested Walking Atlas, but have tested the other 2. I had replaced Bauble for a mana rock while Solemn Simulacrum was taken out a long time ago in a time where I purged creatures from the deck before running the deck like I do now. I'd have to see how they do now.
Search for Azcanta - I always forget about this card.
Primal Amulet - It's weird. I often test this card and I find it so underwhelming. It always ended up making me the target of the table when the card doesn't do much until it is flipped.

On the Other:
Time Reversal/Temporal Manipulation/Time Warp/Narset, Parter of Veils - These aren't in the Deck purely because of playgroup reasons. I know they are good and my Deck will be much better with them, but takes a bit to convince a creature heavy playgroup that an extra turn is acceptable. Kinda sucks but it is what it is.
Merchant Scroll/Gamble - Again, playgroup things. This time is a 3 tutor per deck rule. Again, dumb but that's how it is. I am considering switching one of the Transmute cards for Gamble.
Thought Scour/Ray of Erasure - I foget Thought Scour exists, and I didn't know Ray of Erasure existed. I like these indeed.
Twincast/Reverberate/Expansion // Explosion - Currently looking for space for them, especially because of how crazy copying an opponent's effect.
Laboratory Maniac/Jace, Wielder of Mysteries - This is more personal preference. Not that I think it's an "unfair" tactic or anything, because it's not, but I'd rather rely on other things to win the game. I do consider adding just Jace because of his added value in his loyalty abilities.

So I understand your point in these card choices. However right now the plan is still a draw-go control, with just the "addition" of the burn creatures that make Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Tandem Lookout usable cards even when Niv is in the Command Zone while I have less than 6 mana, or when he is turned into a land or Darksteel beetle.
I know it is suboptimal, but I have very often in my playgroup just won games because I have locked out the game by drawing 3 cards per Instant/Sorcery, filing my hand with counters to then cast Niv or Dramatic Scepter to win right there.

I don't want to sound stubborn but I'd like to see a better argument to taking out OG Niv. Sure he needs a turn to act and costs the same, but at the end of the day he is easier to cast and serves as another infinite combo threat that won't raise the Commander Tax when he dies.

Ral has been a pet card to me but I am certain he can be taken out, and same exact case with Saheeli. It's funny to give myself another mana rock with Saheeli but that's about it.

Commander's Sphere is there because there has been so many times where I win off Niv's infinite combo just because of its draw ability. Literally the only reason. :laugh:
Coalition Relic, on the other hand, is great for being able to enable me 1 extra mana (By itself gets Niv out on turn 4).

Finale of Promise is more of a flavor card and gives the utility of being able to recycle spells from the grave and multiple castings, which synergizes with the Guttersnipe/Electrostatic Field/Thermo-Alchemist interaction. Mana Geyser's interaction with it is not exactly an "objective" of the Deck, but rather just an interaction. Commit // Memory is just a recent inclusion so I haven't tested it out enough to say if they end up clashing, but never have I draw Finale of Promise without being able to use it. Aside from its Green counterpart, Finale of Promise is the only one that I feel it's worth casting even when X is below 10.

Thanks for these suggestions. Even if in this post I express disagreement in some of these choices, it doesn't mean I'm not going to test these when I can, and please understand that some choices are left out either by playgroup limitations or just theme limitations (Again, I know the burn creatures plan is suboptimal but it's so fun to pull off, and is doing pretty well in the group so far.)
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Post by NZB2323 » 4 years ago

MrHadouken, it's fine if you disagree with my post. I'm just giving you suggestions.

I will say that I recently won a game because I had both rapid hybridization and Pongify in hand. I was playing against a Ruric Thar, the unbowed deck that had him out as well as collector ouphe. He played collector ouphe the turn before I drew dockside extortionist. With rapid hybridization and pongify I was able to destroy both Ruric Thar and collector ouphe during his turn, and then cast dockside extortionist, niv-mizzet, ophidian eye, and opt to combo off.

I would highly recommend at looking at adding Pongify, as it's nice to have both it and rapid hybridization in the deck. It only cost 1 mana, it's an instant, it can stop combos, get rid of problem creatures, and you can kill your opponent's commanders with it.

Walking Atlas is nice for the deck because without green it's hard to ramp but with all the card draw we should have lands in hand a lot.
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

So after prerelease, I got my hands on Midnight Clock, The Magic Mirror and Mystic Sanctuary.

I wonder if the Time Spiral ability of Midnight Clock is worth the inclusion of a 3cmc mana rock, but seems decent. No way to blink it to "abuse" it but best I can do is bounce it, even if it shuffles back into the Deck by its own effect.

Mystic Sanctuary sounds good on paper, but I keep thinking if I can justify running it with the amount of Islands in the Deck, but since it is indeed fetchable, might prove useful. I like the extra recursion and its potential for shenanigans

The Magic Mirror is definitely on the "meh" side due to needing to get to my upkeep to get itself a draw. Then again, it normally should cost me just UUU so I might test it out. It does support the draw-go plan.
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MrHadouken
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

Changelog 10/2/19

These changes are more experimental and might be temporary.

Out:
-Ral, Storm Conduit
-Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
-Scroll Rack
-Electrodominance

In:
-Midnight Clock
-The Magic Mirror
-Pull from Tomorrow
-Deep Analysis
  • Midnight Clock: So far has worked great. Nobody really bothers killing this rock, and a Time Spiral effect on me is never bad. It is sorta slow and it sucks that you don't really have an option whether to perform the effect or not when it hits the 12th counter, but most of the times you are fine with it. Just float the U this card generates in response to the Time Spiral ability. It does conflict a little bit with...
  • The Magic Mirror: However, in all games where I've drawn this card so far, not once was I not able to put it down for just UUU. I feel that is consistent enough, and I would normally be able to draw at least 3 cards just out of this card alone. I still have conflicts with how slow it can be, but given the nature of this Deck, which runs 16+ removal pieces, many of them at instant speed, it is easy to just hold back, control the board, and let this card re-stock you every upkeep. It will draw enough attention and I don't see this ever getting over 3 counters.
  • Pull from Tomorrow/Deep Analysis: I felt the inclusion of these was needed as I found myself drawing into a lot of cards that didn't move my game forward, like Saheeli and Ral, and switched them for card draw spells. I like Deep Analysis because its double dipping and cheap flashback cost, and I end up discarding it a lot just to be able to draw those 2 cards. Pull from Tomorrow is nice as a big boost. I had it taken out because I don't really fancy spells that draw you X cards as they depend on a good amount of mana to be effective. I might replace it with Stroke of Genius.
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Post by NZB2323 » 4 years ago

What do you think of Arcane Signet and Castle Vantress?
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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MrHadouken
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

NZB2323 wrote:
4 years ago
What do you think of Arcane Signet and Castle Vantress?
I will add the Signet as soon as I get it, which should be by next week. I think it is just strictly better than any other colored rock. Most likely it will replace Sky Diamond or some other 2cmc taprock or 3cmc rock.

On the side of Castle Vantress I think it won't really hurt to run it, but I don't gain too much from its activated ability.
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

So I made some big changes to the build. I've had enough "fun" with the burny bois but not it's time to make this lista bit more focused.

Changelog 10/11/19:

-1 Conterflux
-1 Sky Diamond
-1 The Magic Mirror
-1 Electrostatic Field
-1 Guttersnipe
-1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
-1 Thermo-Alchemist
-1 Library of Leng
-1 Island
-1 Mountain
-1 Reliquary Tower

+1 Arcane Denial
+1 Delay
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Arcane Signet
+1 Captain Lannery Storm
+1 Game Plan
+1 Glint-Horn Buccaneer
+1 Ash Barrens
+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Mystic Sanctuary
+1 Wooded Foothills
  • So first thing is putting in the better Counterspells. Arcane Denial, Delay, and Pyroblast have proven to be generall better in every situation than say Counterflux. Arcane Denial seems to be one of those cards that are good only in a faster and more competitive environment, so it might be switched back to Counterflux or any other 2cmc counter.
  • Arcane Signet is a strictly better Mana Rock. No reason for it not to be there.
  • Captain Lannery Storm serves a good purpose as a mana generator. I believe she has great effectiveness, especially if she gets to survive a round. I consider her valuable even just making 1 Treasure. Haven't drawn her enough early game to consider its full effectiveness.
  • Game Plan is just another Time Spiral effect. It has the upside of having politics potential. I will switch it for an actual Time Spiral once I get the card.
  • Mystic Sanctuary has provided me with a lot of valuable plays. Putting a land down to just place any of our Insants or Sorceries in our graveyard is of course nothing to ignore. I don't really have a way to abuse it outside of maybe bouncing it with Cryptic Command. Never really have had an issue with it requiring 3 Islands. I will, however, bring more fetches to the table once I get them.
Any opinions on these are welcome. Thank you for the help that people who have posted in this thread have given me.
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Post by NZB2323 » 4 years ago

Is Captain Lannery Storm really better than Silver Myr or Iron Myr?
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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MrHadouken
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Post by MrHadouken » 4 years ago

NZB2323 wrote:
4 years ago
Is Captain Lannery Storm really better than Silver Myr or Iron Myr?
In general, I don't know. In my playgroup I've taken more advantage out of Lannery Storm's treasure making ability than from the Myrs, mostly because that 1 Treasure takes me ahead a turn whether they kill Lannery or not after she attacks. Creature boardwipes are pretty common in the playgroup I'm in.
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