Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - Bring me gifts that I can eat! [Retired]

silversnakes
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Post by silversnakes » 4 years ago

Indeed it does help thank you. What I was also, wondering is that is the dragon himself good enough for the only draw in the deck I like to have a bit more in my lists but, if it works i might as well try it as well. You make excellent points and I'm going to try an answer them with my thoughts as well.

Devour Creatures & Reprocess & God-Eternal Bontu Okay for these I went way overboard into the devour & sacing theme to get value. I think for me to make this work I'll ditch the card drawing effects. Since Korvold, Fae-Cursed King is a card drawing machine or at least I hope he is.. Furthermore, I'll add in more ways to create tokens for Bloodspore Thrinax & Mycoloth & Thromok the Insatiable. I also see where your coming from with the removal they won't be in play for me to sac so that makes my strategy even less potent. Last but not least, here are some cards I was looking to add are Ayula's Influence & Zombie Infestation like you mentioned. I was thinking about Saproling Cluster too since i had one but, I think free discard outlets are the way to go.

Lastly, I think you hit the nail on the head about a few of the cards in my maybe board as well.

Shared Summons I just really want to play this card idky but, I bought four of them. It's probably bad but, shoot my heart just wants to try it.

Abundance I think there are better ways to get cards we can just draw them with korvold and get value with free discard outlets.

Warstorm Surge Creatures are to small and the cmc I think is to expensive like you said

Xenagos, God of Revels Trample really makes this guy shine and my deck has none mistake on my part

Savra, Queen of the Golgari I kinda want to try and fit her in for maybe Dictate of Erebos but, I'm probably not running enough black token producers to make her worth it. Also, trying to save a bit of money as well.

Again I want to thank-you for helping me on my list an giving me reasons as to why a few things I had probably wouldn't of worked and probably would of ended poorly.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Looking good. I really like that Ayula's Influence and Zombie Infestation, I going to have to give these a try myself.

Mana is the HUGE bottleneck for your deck. I have access to Gaea's Cradle with ways to get it, Elvish Reclaimer, Crop Rotation, Scapeshift.
So almost all games this is an engine I'm using to cast spells.
Of course you are lacking this so it's going to be rough.
I think the way to get around this problem is to play Twilight's Call ($0.60) as another Living Death type effect.
Rise of the Dark Realms is another card but unfortunately it's like $20.

The other thing I noticed is that you land base is going to actually be hard to turn on Field of the Dead.
If you can buy maybe a couple of the Snow-Covered basics which you can pick up for around 50 cents each.

I've selected what I consider the best for budget land options in Jund that you should look at. I've specifically got lands that don't come into play tapped, as your deck needs every inch of needed mana at the time.
Dragonskull Summit $2.88
Woodland Cemetery $1.94
Rootbound Crag $2.95
Karplusan Forest $4.00
Llanowar Wastes $0.78
Smoldering Marsh $2.36
Foreboding Ruins $1.34
Game Trail $1.25
Command Tower $2.00
Graven Cairns $4.37
Last edited by darrenhabib 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

silversnakes
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Post by silversnakes » 4 years ago

Hello, darrenhabib thanks again for all the advice. I fixed my mana base added in the snow covered lands and a lot of staples that I forgot to add like command tower. I also added in free sac outlets in Spawning Pit and Yahenni, Undying Partisan
. I then decided to try Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Mycoloth. If worse comes to worse I could try and fit Growing Rites of Itlimoc. Lastly, about Twilight's Call I don't know if bringing everyone's stuff back would be good or bad so I went with Finale of Eternity I'm not sure if i'll be able to hit 12 mana but, we'll see I guess.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

silversnakes wrote:
4 years ago
Hello, darrenhabib thanks again for all the advice. I fixed my mana base added in the snow covered lands and a lot of staples that I forgot to add like command tower. I also added in free sac outlets in Spawning Pit and Yahenni, Undying Partisan
. I then decided to try Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Mycoloth. If worse comes to worse I could try and fit Growing Rites of Itlimoc. Lastly, about Twilight's Call I don't know if bringing everyone's stuff back would be good or bad so I went with Finale of Eternity I'm not sure if i'll be able to hit 12 mana but, we'll see I guess.
If you have a copy of Growing Rites of Itlimoc then definitely put it in, but even if you don't then I would purchase one as the price is only ever going to go up because it's unlikely that it will get reprinted anytime soon and it's such a good card. There is my advice "splash the cash" for a good investment for the future.

Unfortunately Finale of Eternity just runs into the same problem that mana is the bottleneck. The point of Twilight's Call is that it's actually feasible to cast and they payoff is huge. You will be out muscling your opponents when casting it (as long as you've setup your graveyard after some big draw to then discard) almost certainly most times.
Plus remember you have Nihil Spellbomb to help against the opponent who may have a stacked graveyard.
Anyway get some games under your belt and you'll get a feel for what I mean by millions of cards and not many ways to deploy them and then you can make more informed decisions about this sort of thing :)

silversnakes
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Post by silversnakes » 4 years ago

I think I'm just going to run this https://archidekt.com/decks/212943#Korv ... Sacrifice). Once I get all the cards and play it a bit i'll understand the deck a lot better. Growing Rites of Itlimoc is a very sweet card and i think its a fine replacement for what this deck wants to do. I'll probably pickup the rest of my cards at the beginning of next month so hopefully i'll have more to add once that happens.

silversnakes
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Post by silversnakes » 4 years ago

So, I went against my own words and played everything I said I wouldn't. All you need is Korvold, Fae-Cursed King as the draw engine. With all the sac effects we're running you can easily draw 20-30 cards in a turn. I really liked the discard outlets in Zombie Infestation and Ayula's Influence. What's great about the infestation is that we can discard anything like anger and get haste right away to kill a table. Ayula's Influence is great at making snacks for our dragon friend as well as setting up a nice Splendid Reclamation. A few things with my list Symbiotic Wurm is very very good with Phyrexian Altar its pretty much a draw 8 and add 8 mana of any color to the pool which is very helpful if our only land happens to be a gaea's cradle . The deck is very fun to play there are a lot of triggers you have to be aware of and you can easily miss them. Also, you have to be aware of what mana to float as well with Phyrexian Altar that can be kinda tricky. Lastly, I don't really have a log of the games I played but, I just recall using Scapeshift grabbing a total of 13 lands and creating 13 zombie tokens with Field of the Dead. Tapping gaea's cradle for 13 green then casting Symbiotic Wurm saccing him. After that I used Blasphemous Act to clear the board and held priority an sacced everything to Phyrexian Altar making 20 mana of a combination of black/green/red giving korvold 20 +1 +1 counters and drawing 20 cards. I found a anger and a Zombie Infestation to discard it to. With my 20 or so mana I cast an Avenger of Zendikar and a Finale of Devastation to close out the game.

Sharpened
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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

I've been tinkering with a list based on this setup and was curious to see if you had any more experience to add or feedback.

How have the discard outlets been? I can appreciate that they let you do nutty things when Korvold is in play, but unless you are going off, that Zombie Infestation feels pretty worthless.
Likewise, Mad Ratter seems so shaky. I get that if you have a sacrifice outlet and Korvold he works wonders, but that looks like almost the only way you have to trigger him so in any other situation he's just a bad 4-drop.

Birthing Pod seems pretty bad. The rigidness of the requirements (exactly CMC+1) seems like it would be a real challenge as it's not like most of your creatures are expendable. Do you really find yourself using it multiple times? If not, wouldn't Eldritch Evolution be better? The "CMC+2 OR LESS" feels much more freeing. Being able to jump from Dockside Extortionist directly up to a 4 drop seems strong, as is being able to turn Anger or World Shaper into basically anything. not specifically a 5 drop.

I'm curious as to your thoughts about some of the cards you have cut:
Titania, Protector of Argoth seems great, was she not good for you?
Mycoloth seems like it does things you want. I get that it's not a strong sacrifice outlet, and I don't think you should think of it as one. I think of it more of a token generator that sacrifices one (or maybe more) creatures when it comes down. I understand the concern about it only making tokens on your upkeep, as opposed to on everyone's. i certainly wouldn't run it over Tendershoot Dryad, but it feels like it can do real work.

I also wondered why you ignored the creatures that ping/drain on death:
Zulaport Cutthroat
Blood Artist
Poison-Tip Archer
They seem really good at speeding up your clock against multiple opponents.

Some other cards I've been loving:
Need for Speed - Anger is great, but a second way to give haste is also awesome. You have to be careful with when and how many lands you sac, but there are ways to work with it and it can be very explosive.
Nesting Dragon - A threatening creature that generates tokens to sac which then become even more threatening tokens? The double red in the casting cost can be a little challenging, but otherwise this card feels pretty strong here.
Sadistic Hypnotist - Only works as a sorcery speed sac outlet, but is very disruptive.
Journey to Eternity - Easy to transform and a real strong effect. Going turn 2 Sakura-Tribe Elder into turn 3 this may be a little "Magical Christmas land" but it's good even when you aren't shooting up to 6 lands in play on turn 3.
Xenagos, the Reveler - As I'm sure you know, being explosive with mana when the deck does it's thing is pretty valuable. Well, he does get explosive. And in the event that you're board isn't able to support a big mana boost, he generates tokens.

This one is more cutesy and less good, but:
I really wanted something to be able to use the second ability on From Beyond. Not that expect to often, but it felt wrong for it to have 0 targets. While any Eldrazi titan would work, I remembered Decimator of the Provinces and that crazy Eldrazi pig feels like he belongs here. I probably wouldn't run him in a fully optimized list, but sometimes fun wins out.

Of course, the real challenge is finding ways to fit in everything you want to do, and balancing the consistency vs variability in gameplay.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Sharpened wrote:
4 years ago
I've been tinkering with a list based on this setup and was curious to see if you had any more experience to add or feedback.

How have the discard outlets been? I can appreciate that they let you do nutty things when Korvold is in play, but unless you are going off, that Zombie Infestation feels pretty worthless.
Likewise, Mad Ratter seems so shaky. I get that if you have a sacrifice outlet and Korvold he works wonders, but that looks like almost the only way you have to trigger him so in any other situation he's just a bad 4-drop.
I've just been trying the Zombie Infestation (and not the Ayula's Influence). It's not like I've been playing the deck a ton, but I guess in games it has come up it's definitely been in "win more" situations. That is I've already got tons of cards draw and plenty of ways to dominate the game going forward. So I agree it's not really at it's best when you are looking for setups or early game play.
Birthing Pod seems pretty bad. The rigidness of the requirements (exactly CMC+1) seems like it would be a real challenge as it's not like most of your creatures are expendable. Do you really find yourself using it multiple times? If not, wouldn't Eldritch Evolution be better? The "CMC+2 OR LESS" feels much more freeing. Being able to jump from Dockside Extortionist directly up to a 4 drop seems strong, as is being able to turn Anger or World Shaper into basically anything. not specifically a 5 drop.
I've built decks literally around Birthing Pod so I am aware that it's not exactly a custom made deck for it. But I still find it's good enough. It basically replaces itself straight away with the sacrifice, and I am absolutely fine with even just a couple of turns of saying curving into Springbloom DruidWorld ShaperEndrek Sahr, Master Breeder/Tendershoot Dryad.
It's not like you have to get AMAZING value from it, just a few turns worth is good enough. Admittedly it would be better to have some more custom creatures as further creatures to curve into (in the cases where you've already drawn/played these creatures), that you get value from ETB/dies.
At the moment my backups would be.. Pawn of UlamogAnger.
The other thing about Birthing Pod is to consider what is searchable if you sacrifice your commander? At 5 cmc (Korvold) that means 6 cmc. There is only Prossh, Skyraider of Kher at the moment.
What I like to do when deck building is to check out if there are any creatures with the +1 cmc that can retrieve your commander from graveyard?
Unfortunately there isn't perfect great at 6 cmc.
Demon of Dark Schemes and Champion of Stray Souls are examples of this, that if you use Korvold as the sacrifice to Birthing Pod then you can look to send it to the graveyard instead to get it back without casting it again.
It's just a nice way of knowing you can start up the chain quite high and not lose traction on casting your commander again. However these are not enough to entice me. A better example would have been if Korvold was 4 cmc and then Phyrexian Delver provides that instant recursion.

Mad Ratter is a little janky, but honestly a lot of fun. Like it's nice to have additional little things to aim for, and figuring out how to sequence sacrifices in opponents turns is both rewarding mentally and as well as with the actual payoffs of the card with additional tokens.
There are probably easier ways to produce tokens, like Rapacious One as perhaps an example, but I'm happy with it in the deck so far.
I'm curious as to your thoughts about some of the cards you have cut:
Titania, Protector of Argoth seems great, was she not good for you?
Mycoloth seems like it does things you want. I get that it's not a strong sacrifice outlet, and I don't think you should think of it as one. I think of it more of a token generator that sacrifices one (or maybe more) creatures when it comes down. I understand the concern about it only making tokens on your upkeep, as opposed to on everyone's. i certainly wouldn't run it over Tendershoot Dryad, but it feels like it can do real work.
The thing is that when you draw lots of cards, you want to be casting multiple spells each turn. So a 5 mana card does have to be quite impactful. I just found Titania, Protector of Argoth to be very average really. The thing is that the size of tokens doesn't matter a whole lot as they tend to be sacrifice fodder. So between a 5/3 and a 1/1 didn't really matter.
I think with a few actual land sacrifice outlets that Titania, Protector of Argoth could be used to combo. Say if I was playing Need for Speed and Squandered Resources in the deck, then I could see Titania, Protector of Argoth pulling her weight more in the build.

With Mycoloth I think I was running into the "the creatures are too good to sacrifice" basket. That is they already have proactive effects via their own sacrificing. It's similar to the Birthing Pod in that there are not actually a lot of creatures you are happy to just sacrifice away (without getting the effect it could have got naturally).
I also wondered why you ignored the creatures that ping/drain on death:
Zulaport Cutthroat
Blood Artist
Poison-Tip Archer
They seem really good at speeding up your clock against multiple opponents.
I not a big supporter of cards that do damage/life loss unless there is an infinite loop within the deck.
This includes decks like storm where people play things like Electrostatic Field. I just find they are pretty weak as win conditions.
This just comes from experience. I started off with Zulaport Cutthroat and Blood Artist in my Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, but cut them after they really just didn't do enough work.
Korvold is the same, if you are sacrificing say 20-30 cards (which is what you are hoping to do with an Aristocrat on the board to deal life loss), then trust me you are able to close the game easily in other ways.
Some other cards I've been loving:
Need for Speed - Anger is great, but a second way to give haste is also awesome. You have to be careful with when and how many lands you sac, but there are ways to work with it and it can be very explosive.
Nesting Dragon - A threatening creature that generates tokens to sac which then become even more threatening tokens? The double red in the casting cost can be a little challenging, but otherwise this card feels pretty strong here.
Sadistic Hypnotist - Only works as a sorcery speed sac outlet, but is very disruptive.
Journey to Eternity - Easy to transform and a real strong effect. Going turn 2 Sakura-Tribe Elder into turn 3 this may be a little "Magical Christmas land" but it's good even when you aren't shooting up to 6 lands in play on turn 3.
Xenagos, the Reveler - As I'm sure you know, being explosive with mana when the deck does it's thing is pretty valuable. Well, he does get explosive. And in the event that you're board isn't able to support a big mana boost, he generates tokens.
I could see replacing Anger with Need for Speed. That allows for a few more combo like plays with World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation for way more triggers.
The 5 cmc do have to be special, as I say casting multiple spells a turn is pretty key to getting a proper traction on the game.
Sadistic Hypnotist is very tempting. I actually think Mindslicer is also a card that would win you a lot of games. With numerous creature sacrifice outlets in the deck, Korvold draw allows you to fill up your hand way more effectively than realistically the rest of your opponents (once you've cleared out their hands and they have to top deck).
I'll give Sadistic Hypnotist a go over Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest at 5 cmc slots.
This one is more cutesy and less good, but:
I really wanted something to be able to use the second ability on From Beyond. Not that expect to often, but it felt wrong for it to have 0 targets. While any Eldrazi titan would work, I remembered Decimator of the Provinces and that crazy Eldrazi pig feels like he belongs here. I probably wouldn't run him in a fully optimized list, but sometimes fun wins out.
I do have All Is Dust as a target (and used to have Sifter of Skulls but just cut it).
Decimator of the Provinces is very good after some very specific cards with Avenger of Zendikar, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. But I feel without these cards it isn't very good.
I feel like if I was running a couple more big token generators that it would be an include; Brood Monitor, Deep Forest Hermit, Deranged Hermit, Dragon Broodmother, Dragonlair Spider, Emrakul's Hatcher, Grave Titan, Ishkanah, Grafwidow, Mitotic Slime, Mycoloth, Rapacious One, Siege-Gang Commander, Symbiotic Wurm, Verdant Force.
It would be very easy to shift the build to be more over the top with aggression. You could take out some of the interactive cards like Viridian Zealot/Thrashing Brontodon in favor of heavy hitting token generators for a more proactive game plan.
Interestingly Awakening Zone and From Beyond are slow cards to begin with. You could simply replace these with heavier hitters like Emrakul's Hatcher, Mycoloth, Symbiotic Wurm, etc. I still prefer Awakening Zone and From Beyond as early/mid game curve into Korvold is so much better when you have a non-mana source to sacrifice to his enter the battlefield effect (this cannot be understated).
I'm laying this all down because it would be a very strong build to have additional token generators and Decimator of the Provinces as further win-conditions for sure.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Some changes that I've made, just adding a few more mana creatures over lands. I found Lotus Field to be a bit slow in general and just not necessary to get additional triggers say after a Scapeshift.

I haven't tried the Need for Speed or Sadistic Hypnotist yet, but want to give them a test.

Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest wasn't super important as a win condition as often Korvold is voltroning people to death. Tokens are more for sacrifice fodder than actually attacking.


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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

So I think there are two main concepts that I am finding important as I play and tweak:

Firstly: Having a Plan A and a Plan B
Korvold is an insane card. The powerlevel is off the charts insane and it is a draw engine and kill condition wrapped into a single card. It's not an either/or with him. If you can do what you want, he gives you access to more cards than you can possible handle, and he grows to the point where he 1-shots opponents. It goes without saying that Plan A is to get stupid with Korvold and use him to kill my opponents.

But I want to be able to function if my opponents can disrupt Plan A. The deck doesn't need to be a complete swiss army knife, able to do any and everything. But it needs to be able to threaten another angle of attack. If my opponent is able to use Agent of Treachery or Dominate to keep Korvold out of my grip, what can I do to function? And how can I set up the plans so that they work together when I don't need to rely on only one?

My thought process is to find things that are explosive with Korvold, but can also bring the beatdown themselves.
Yeah, Korvold doesn't care that the elemental tokens from Titania, Protector of Argoth are 5/3 and not 1/1 or something, but using Need for Speed to chain out a series of hasty 5-power beaters can force opponents to scoop up their cards without the big Dragons involvement. There's fantastic synergy when together with the commander, but also real threats without him.
Likewise, Nesting Dragon is a card that matters on it's own. A 5 power flyer is nothing to sneeze at. Landfall to generate tokens is pretty strong in a deck thats packed to the gills with fetchlands and land ramp like Khalni Heart Expedition, and downright explosive with Scapeshift. Every landfall trigger represents not 1, but 2 sac-able tokens because the eggs become whelps, so there's even more value added there. And honestly, a board full of flying token dragon whelps ends games pretty quickly as well.
Even something like Mycoloth (which is definitely one of the weaker cards) is chosen because of beatdown synergy with Tendershoot Dryad. If saprolings are going to get the beatdown boost, wouldn't I rather my token generators churn out saprolings than rats?

If you can get Korvold in play at the same time as either Pitiless Plundererand a sacrifice outlet, or Phyrexian Altar, as well as Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, than not much else matters. Although even then, your massive commander can only eliminate one player a turn (well, you could run multiple combat effects, but is that the better option), and having beatdown options to supplement him can be worthwhile. So that's why I like token generators that are threatening beats by themselves or the drain on deaths creatures, to bring my opponents into range.

Secondly: Synergy vs The right synergy vs powerlevel.
Font of Fertility had me thinking about this.
At the most basic level, the card makes sense. It's land ramp that can sacrifice itself. Absolutely synergistic with what you want to be doing.
But than I thought about it more and maximizing and getting the right synergy
Font of Fertility should be Dawntreader Elk
The two cards are very close.
In a vacuum, I can see the enchantment having the edge. It curves better (turn 1 into turn 2) and is far less likely to eat stray removal.
But when you start focusing on maximizing synergies:
When Korvold is in play, every mana spent becomes more precious - it's cheaper to sac the elk
Elk can be sac'd by one of your sac outlets, the enchantment only by itself or Korvold
Elk triggers Grave Pact and Pitiless Plunderer and Pawn of Ulamog
Elk comes back with Living Death
So I was ready to switch Font of Fertility into Dawntreader Elk but then I kept thinking.
Wood Elves is a more powerful card. It can get nonbasics.
It hits all the creature synergies of the Elk.
The problem is that it can't sacrifice itself. But is that a problem?
Isn't the only time you care about it sacrificing itself when Korvold is in play? Sure, there may be corner cases where you need to trigger Grave Pact or something, but are they few and far between.
Korvold would likely just eat the Wood Elves when it enters the battlefield anyway. Sac'ing the Elk when Korvold is in play is not an exciting play to begin with, and if I sac it for something else, I don't get the benefit of the land search, like I do with the Elves.
Elves are still synergistic with Korvold, as well as with Birthing Pod and other Sac outlets, of which your goal is to be running plenty.
Doesn't the more powerful card (Wood Elves) provide a bit more benefit than the slightly more synergistic one (Dawntreader Elk)? I think it does.
I think it's important to pay attention to when your are sacrificing powerlevel for perceived synergy, and make sure that the synergy matters, because I'm betting that it doesn't more often than you might expect.

Other specific notes:
I don't think cutting Anger is right. Need for Speed is fantastic, and I wholeheartedly recommend it as well as things that work well with it (I may have been using Crucible of Worlds to replay Bojuka Bog early and often, not missing land drops due to Exploration). That said, 2 ways to give Haste is better than 1.
Birthing Pod is fine, but I think Eldritch Evolution will serve you better. The flexibility and the ability to jump the curve (or stay in the same spot) are likely going to come up more often than the times you get to pull off multiple chains, especially since you have a shortage of points on the curve with good chain targets. I can see running both, if that's what you want to do, but I think Pod is the weaker of the two in most scenarios with this deck.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Sharpened wrote:
4 years ago
So I think there are two main concepts that I am finding important as I play and tweak:

Firstly: Having a Plan A and a Plan B

My thought process is to find things that are explosive with Korvold, but can also bring the beatdown themselves.
Yeah, Korvold doesn't care that the elemental tokens from Titania, Protector of Argoth are 5/3 and not 1/1 or something, but using Need for Speed to chain out a series of hasty 5-power beaters can force opponents to scoop up their cards without the big Dragons involvement. There's fantastic synergy when together with the commander, but also real threats without him.
Likewise, Nesting Dragon is a card that matters on it's own.
I do find that the deck has a strong game in the absence of Korvold. It has plenty of pro-active cards, like mana ramping, or removal to delay the game further until you do get Korvold back into play.

I do like token generators in this deck and I can see Nesting Dragon being good. Getting basically double tokens for each landfall does seem efficient. I'd agree that it's probably straight up better than the Ratters.
Secondly: Synergy vs The right synergy vs powerlevel.
Font of Fertility should be Dawntreader Elk

So I was ready to switch Font of Fertility into Dawntreader Elk but then I kept thinking.
Wood Elves is a more powerful card.
When constructing the deck, I was forever making comparisons next to the usual suspects. Would Khalni Heart Expedition just still be better off as a Nature's Lore? Would Burnished Hart just be better off as Wood Elves?
Would Sylvok Replica just be better being a Nature's Claim?
The mana cost and efficiency has always been a notch slower when trying to harness the sacrifice benefits for Korvold.
The realistic answer is that there is definitely a happy medium that could be reached to make the deck more competitive rather than themed, 100%.

I only added more sacrifice outlets later on, so I haven't really thought strongly about redundancy with sacrificing creatures.
I think if you have a certain threshold of sacrifice outlets then the more powerful option would be to run the more efficient ETB/LTB creatures instead.
I don't know what that number is, but I'm probably close. Let's say the deck was also running, Priest of Forgotten Gods and Ashnod's Altar as additional sac outlets. Then you have more incentive to run things like Reclamation Sage and Wood Elves as you can get benefits from these other cards.
The more you play then deck, the more you realize that you don't have to squeeze out every last bit of draw either, as I added the Living Death and World Shaper/Splendid Reclamation after figuring out that you often draw a billion cards and have to discard most of them if you do get any sort of engine going anyway.

Any of the land ramp cards could easy be replaced by any/all of the following;
Primal Druid
Viridian Emissary
Elvish Rejuvenator
Wood Elves
Yavimaya Druid

Artifact/Enchantment removal could be replaced by;
Manglehorn
Reclamation Sage

But I often use my threads as a knowledge base as well as functioning decks, so I am happy to keep in as many of the sacrifice for value cards, so that people have an idea of what is out there, and the power difference is fairly marginal.
But you are correct, if your deck has enough sacrifice outlets then the above suggestions I feel would make a stronger deck.
I don't think cutting Anger is right. Need for Speed is fantastic, and I wholeheartedly recommend it as well as things that work well with it.

Birthing Pod is fine, but I think Eldritch Evolution will serve you better. The flexibility and the ability to jump the curve (or stay in the same spot) are likely going to come up more often than the times you get to pull off multiple chains, especially since you have a shortage of points on the curve with good chain targets. I can see running both, if that's what you want to do, but I think Pod is the weaker of the two in most scenarios with this deck.
Too be honest I'm not all that worried about haste in general. Just thought I'd give Need for Speed a go for the graveyard recursion value. I could see easily exchanging it for Squandered Resources as an alternative way to get value, as the haste isn't a priority for me personally.

I think I'd just cut Birthing Pod altogether rather than replacing it with Eldritch Evolution. Natural Order might be the correct choice for these effects? Prossh, Skyraider of Kher or Avenger of Zendikar being more likely targets.


I've been pretty disappointed with Pawn of Ulamog. There are 35 creatures in the deck, but it's not like you want to sacrifice the utility creatures, so in fact the number is only really 12 creatures that you sacrifice for value. Then most sacrifices are coming off token creatures (which you don't get benefits).


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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Well I've been very impressed with Need for Speed, so much in fact that I've decided to pull the trigger and add Squandered Resources as well. Just being able to sacrifice all your lands and then use World Shaper/Splendid Reclamation to bring them all back is just too powerful an interaction. I've literally had to find a win within a single turn and through scrambling drawing cards have pulled it off a few times with the help of Need for Speed.

I added Lotus Cobra as another mana tool, as you can line up these big Scapeshift or World Shaper/Splendid Reclamation turns and you get all the mana you need to navigate massive turns. It's just a really great creature with all the fetchlands as well.

It made sense to simply replace Yahenni, Undying Partisan with Ashnod's Altar for a much higher upside. Mana always being the most sort after resource (once Korvold takes care of the draw).

Finally a small addition is Oath of Nissa as another little sacrifice fodder, as I figured out I have a 97% chance of replacing itself. It's just nice to always have something to sacrifice to Korvold that is not a mana source. I think it's just slightly better than say Urza's Bauble as you get the draw immediately (without needing to sac) and then remains a target for Korvold later on.


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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

Season's Past completes an infinite draw/infinite mana combo with Korvold (well, limited by cards in your deck) and Squandered Resources and Splendid Reclamation which is fairly strong, with a tutor in the bin anyway

(seasons past for tutor + splendid rec, sac all your lands for mana and draw cards, tutor for seasons past, cast splendid rec, etc.)

Fairly powerful interaction that won me a lot of games with Gitrog after having combo pieces exiled.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
Season's Past completes an infinite draw/infinite mana combo with Korvold (well, limited by cards in your deck) and Squandered Resources and Splendid Reclamation which is fairly strong, with a tutor in the bin anyway

(seasons past for tutor + splendid rec, sac all your lands for mana and draw cards, tutor for seasons past, cast splendid rec, etc.)

Fairly powerful interaction that won me a lot of games with Gitrog after having combo pieces exiled.
Actually I've realized that the deck has a lot of parallels with The Gitrog Monster. Fetchlands turn into draws.

The differences being that Gitrog looks to combo with discard (lands), while Korvold looks to go wide (realistically tokens) and sacrifice outlets.

I always look to see if Season's Past is an include in a deck. I have to say that I always have a full hand of cards with Korvolds draw, and never really been in need of looking for getting cards back from graveyard to hand (only to battlefield cards). An example is that I literally have never used Volrath's Stronghold once since playing the deck (should probably cut it in theory then). No Eternal Witness either.



I've decided to give Dwarven Mine a go. I've found that I never end up cracking Blighted Woodland as it's just so expensive to activate, so an easy replace. Getting 3 Mountains isn't the easiest during the lead up to casting Korvold for the first time, as getting a token for sacrifice fodder is nice. But I feel like with enough careful use of fetchlands it is possible to do it at least half of the time. We will see.

On that note Myriad Landscape is kind of only good if it's part of your early game, otherwise another tapped land can be awkward. I'm just going to go for the less reward with Fabled Passage, but better post playing Korvold.

Sylvan Library should have been a shoe in from the start. With so many fetchland lands, you can manipulate your draw no end.


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Post by Elincia » 4 years ago

Hey guys, French Korvold player here, it's my first post on MTG Nexus, hope I'm not intruding! Just wanted to say this thread has been a great source for me (Sadistic Hypnotist is simply dirty against control decks, thanks!), and maybe share some of my tricks!

I agree that when we cast Korvold for the first time, we don't want to sacrifice a mana source, so I added some interesting early drops in Weaponcraft Enthusiast (3 bodies for 3 CMC), Sprouting Thrinax (4 bodies for 3CMC, even though it's a bit color intensive to cast on curve) and Ophiomancer (a great deterrent that makes a token every turn). Kher Keep is also a favorite of mine since it can help you rebuild quickly and cast Korvold easily after a wrath.

But my personal pet card is Reassembling Skeleton. Not only can you recur it at any time in the game as long as it's in your graveyard, it has some incredible synergies with the Altars and Pitiless Plunderer with Korvold on the board. Sac it to Phyrexian Altar, produce one mana and a treasure, recur it : infinite sacrifices, which means infinite draws and +1 counters on Korvold. With Ashnod's Altar you can produce infinite colorless mana to cast, let's say, an enormous Tempt with Vengeance and win instantly.

I also like the card selection Protean Hulk offers. Depending on what I need to advance my board, I can either go fetch a token producer (say Deep Forest Hermit or Mitotic Slime) and a sac outlet like Viscera Seer at the same time, or go find a solution to deal with my opponent's board like Thrashing Brontodon. It helps that I can get him with Eldritch Evolution by sacrificing Korvold.

One card I discovered recently that I like for its versatility is Life // Death. Most of the time you cast the Death part to retrieve something like Avenger of Zendikar or a sac outlet. But it's also a very useful card to close the game if you transform all your lands into 1/1s and sac them to pump Korvold to astronomous proportions, draw a ton of cards and end the game.

For additional card draw, in case Korvold gets countered (happens a lot in my meta, they know how dangerous he can be, one player keeps pinging my 1/1 tokens with Marath, Will of the Wild in order to keep me from having things to sacrifice), I run Skullclamp. The new Garruk, Cursed Huntsman is also performing really well. He does a lot of things: tokens, target creature removal (and a draw), and can give a big buff to your army of tokens if you ultimate him, which is not hard to do at all when you can sac the wolf tokens.

Recursion wise, Wake the Dead can do stupid stuff right before your untap step and can really surprise your opponents. With a sac outlet, Korvold and a token producer with a good ETB/LTB in your graveyard, you can draw like crazy (often 7 or 8 cards) and set up for an explosive turn for 4 or 5 mana.

What do you think of token doublers like Parallel Lives and Doubling Season? I only played Parallel once, and it got pretty crazy, pretty fast. I don't know why but I always thought it doubled only your creature tokens, but when you realise you can get double clues and treasures, it's pretty tempting to run it in the 99.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Elincia wrote:
4 years ago
Hey guys, French Korvold player here, it's my first post on MTG Nexus, hope I'm not intruding! Just wanted to say this thread has been a great source for me (Sadistic Hypnotist is simply dirty against control decks, thanks!), and maybe share some of my tricks!
Welcome and all great suggestions!
I agree that when we cast Korvold for the first time, we don't want to sacrifice a mana source, so I added some interesting early drops in Weaponcraft Enthusiast (3 bodies for 3 CMC), Sprouting Thrinax (4 bodies for 3CMC, even though it's a bit color intensive to cast on curve) and Ophiomancer (a great deterrent that makes a token every turn). Kher Keep is also a favorite of mine since it can help you rebuild quickly and cast Korvold easily after a wrath

But my personal pet card is Reassembling Skeleton. Not only can you recur it at any time in the game as long as it's in your graveyard, it has some incredible synergies with the Altars and Pitiless Plunderer with Korvold on the board. Sac it to Phyrexian Altar, produce one mana and a treasure, recur it : infinite sacrifices, which means infinite draws and +1 counters on Korvold. With Ashnod's Altar you can produce infinite colorless mana to cast, let's say, an enormous Tempt with Vengeance and win instantly.
There are a number of recursion/constant value creatures that can make for more consistent play. Playing Bloodghast for example is always going to give yourself a needed target for Korvold.
I'm normally an infinite loop type of deck builder (Johnny combo player through-and-through) but just haven't felt the need to add any true loops as you get so much card draw anyway and have plenty of ways to close out the game.

I think if I was to truly have a better build that I would exchange Awakening Zone and From Beyond for some other cards to get sacrifice fodder, like Bloodghast/Reassembling Skeleton/Sprouting Thrinax/etc.
They are pretty terrible to draw once you are setup (Awakening Zone/From Beyond), as they are just so slow, and even if you cast them on Turn 3, often games are finishing around turns 6-9 anyway, so you can't expect that much value out of them. I'm just being a little bit stubborn with including them still I think.

It's probably technically better to have Kher Keep over Dwarven Mine or Khalni Garden. I'm giving Dwarven Mine a go, but if it turns out that it sucks I'll replace it with Kher Keep.
I also like the card selection Protean Hulk offers. Depending on what I need to advance my board, I can either go fetch a token producer (say Deep Forest Hermit or Mitotic Slime) and a sac outlet like Viscera Seer at the same time, or go find a solution to deal with my opponent's board like Thrashing Brontodon. It helps that I can get him with Eldritch Evolution by sacrificing Korvold.
Sylvan Safekeeper + Viscera Seer + World Shaper.
Tendershoot Dryad + Elvish Reclaimer (to get Gaea's Cradle).
Sylvan Safekeeper + Titania, Protector of Argoth (and let's say a haste enabler) to create lethal attack.
One card I discovered recently that I like for its versatility is Life // Death. Most of the time you cast the Death part to retrieve something like Avenger of Zendikar or a sac outlet. But it's also a very useful card to close the game if you transform all your lands into 1/1s and sac them to pump Korvold to astronomous proportions, draw a ton of cards and end the game.
For sure, very versatile card. At the end of the day just letting Korvold go to graveyard (opponents removal) to reanimate is enough reason to have it in the deck.
I've been really using Titania, Protector of Argoth and Turntimber Sower abilities to create additional tokens to get further value out of the sacrifice land outlets, so again making your creatures 1/1s and saccing them can be very appealing with these other cards that make further tokens. As you know once you draw enough cards, you can normally find a way to win anyway, regardless of always wanting to get them back with World Shaper/Splendid Reclamation.
For additional card draw, in case Korvold gets countered (happens a lot in my meta, they know how dangerous he can be, one player keeps pinging my 1/1 tokens with Marath, Will of the Wild in order to keep me from having things to sacrifice), I run Skullclamp. The new Garruk, Cursed Huntsman is also performing really well. He does a lot of things: tokens, target creature removal (and a draw), and can give a big buff to your army of tokens if you ultimate him, which is not hard to do at all when you can sac the wolf tokens.
No Korvold!?! Admittedly I play so many games of various commanders, that building "robust" decks isn't all that appealing. I understand that a lot of people only have a few decks, therefore they need to make sure that given any night that they can play their decks under any situation. However I just want decks to go off, so if my opponents answer Korvold 3 times in a row, then I'm just like "well done, I guess I lose".

So yeah this is a fairly complicated topic, but if I was to show up to a game wanting to be more consistent across more games, then the shell would probably be a little bit different.
I might change a few things like take out slower elements in Burnished Hart just becoming an Arbor Elf.
Thrashing Brontodon becoming a Nature's Claim. Viridian Zealot becomes Force of Vigor.
Ingot Chewer becomes Vandalblast.
These types of things for a build that is less about Korvold. But I'm going to be stubborn on keeping the deck "Korvold" :P

Skullclamp is definitely a robust game plan in the absence of Korvold. Maybe I should be a bit more mindful of non-Korvold games. I could easily take out Mishra's Bauble for the clamp.
Recursion wise, Wake the Dead can do stupid stuff right before your untap step and can really surprise your opponents. With a sac outlet, Korvold and a token producer with a good ETB/LTB in your graveyard, you can draw like crazy (often 7 or 8 cards) and set up for an explosive turn for 4 or 5 mana.
Yeah Wake the Dead has popped up in "hidden gems" threads before, and I can see it's potential for sure.
I'm not totally geared to abuse it. It does much better with ETB/LTB stuff as you say, and most of the cards in the deck require "other things to do" like spending mana to sacrifice them, or landfall, or whatever.
This is where you might want to lean on things like Wood Elves and Reclamation Sage as options rather than cards that require additional mana to get benefits.

It seems like your build has quite a bit more of a reanimation theme. Do you have Survival of the Fittest in your deck?
What do you think of token doublers like Parallel Lives and Doubling Season? I only played Parallel once, and it got pretty crazy, pretty fast. I don't know why but I always thought it doubled only your creature tokens, but when you realise you can get double clues and treasures, it's pretty tempting to run it in the 99.
I mean they are cards that work specifically with 14 of the cards (in my deck). I've always been a bit wary when it comes to effects that only work with other cards unless it's specifically a "combo" piece. But doubling tokens can be considered a combo.
I think if you also had a few planeswalkers to enhance Doubling Season, then it's probably going to be pretty good card most games. For example if I had a number of these in the deck I'd be more inclined to play it; Wrenn and Six, Xenagos, the Reveler, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Garruk, Cursed Huntsman (as you've mentioned), which all viable in my opinion.

Really the question is do you have time to cast these before you get your token generators going?
I think the answer is probably mainly yes. I have this timing issue with Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder for example of trying to figure out if I can spend the mana to cast him to get benefits before casting another creature, perhaps even having to spend most of the turn casting him. Sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes it's no. I'd say you'd have the same sort of decision making with Parallel Lives/Doubling Season.

Of note Parallel Lives/Doubling Season + Ruthless Knave would not only be an indefinite sacrifice outlet, but you'd also gain a mana for each creature you sac. You're sacrificing 5 cards (4 tokens + creature) each time so it's going to draw a good portion of your deck with Korvold in play.



Growing Rites of Itlimoc has about 80% of a chance of netting a creature, and mana is the big bottleneck in the deck, so I feel it should be included for mana boost.
In a real pickle you can use it as your sacrifice source for Korvold, if not wanting to be patient with the 4 creature stipulation, and certainly better than sacrificing a land in that particular spot.

Executioner's Capsule hasn't been all that exciting. Often it's better as an early game play, having to use it before you get Korvold into play. Therefore not actually getting the "sac" benefits. Later on in the game, you are looking to use the mass creature removal instead anyway, with Living Death, and the sacrifice enchantments Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos.
At least Shriekmaw is a creature, so can get additional benefits (like sacrificing or reanimation).


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Post by Elincia » 4 years ago

Here's my list : https://archidekt.com/decks/257447#Korvold_Aristocat. Tell me what you think! Some of my card choices can seem a little odd, but usually it's because I need specific answers for my meta. Don't pay attention to the sideboard and maybeboard, I use them to list cards that interest me (I also have to upgrade my mana base, I need the fetch lands, but they are a bit expensive).

To answer your question, yes, I do have a light reanimation subtheme, and I run the budget version of Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman. The deck used to have a lot more lands matter cards, but I realized it was just too dangerous to sac lands, even with World Shaper in my hand or on the battlefield. After a few games, my opponents knew exactly when and what card to counter to disrupt my game plan, so that I would end up with zero mana (when I'm playing Korvold, I'm usually the archenemy).

That's why I mainly focused on creatures with ETB/LTB that instantly create tokens instead of creatures like Tendershot Dryad, Mycoloth or even Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder that draw immediate attention from the table and get removed pretty fast before they are able to do anything. That way, if my creatures are countered, I can recur them and still get the instant value, and if they hit the battlefield, I'm good, they can die, I don't care, I can Wake the Dead them later.

Bloodghast could end up in the list, but I prefer the combo potential of Reassembling Skeleton. Apart from Scapeshift and a few ramp cards, I don't have many ways to recur Bloodghast to the battlefield several times a turn.

And yeah, it can be pretty dull when your opponents answer Korvold every time you try to put him on the battlefield, but... they're right, they totally should not let him stay on the board for more than a turn or two, or they're probably dead.

About token doublers, I think I'll play a few games with Parallel lives just to see if it's not a "win more" card, as I suspect it can be if you play it late in the game. The two card combo with Ruthless Knave is pretty disgusting though, I may have to consider him just to see my friends' reaction haha.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Elincia wrote:
4 years ago
Here's my list : https://archidekt.com/decks/257447#Korvold_Aristocat. Tell me what you think! Some of my card choices can seem a little odd, but usually it's because I need specific answers for my meta. Don't pay attention to the sideboard and maybeboard, I use them to list cards that interest me (I also have to upgrade my mana base, I need the fetch lands, but they are a bit expensive).

To answer your question, yes, I do have a light reanimation subtheme, and I run the budget version of Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman. The deck used to have a lot more lands matter cards, but I realized it was just too dangerous to sac lands, even with World Shaper in my hand or on the battlefield. After a few games, my opponents knew exactly when and what card to counter to disrupt my game plan, so that I would end up with zero mana (when I'm playing Korvold, I'm usually the archenemy).

That's why I mainly focused on creatures with ETB/LTB that instantly create tokens instead of creatures like Tendershot Dryad, Mycoloth or even Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder that draw immediate attention from the table and get removed pretty fast before they are able to do anything. That way, if my creatures are countered, I can recur them and still get the instant value, and if they hit the battlefield, I'm good, they can die, I don't care, I can Wake the Dead them later.

Bloodghast could end up in the list, but I prefer the combo potential of Reassembling Skeleton. Apart from Scapeshift and a few ramp cards, I don't have many ways to recur Bloodghast to the battlefield several times a turn.

And yeah, it can be pretty dull when your opponents answer Korvold every time you try to put him on the battlefield, but... they're right, they totally should not let him stay on the board for more than a turn or two, or they're probably dead.

About token doublers, I think I'll play a few games with Parallel lives just to see if it's not a "win more" card, as I suspect it can be if you play it late in the game. The two card combo with Ruthless Knave is pretty disgusting though, I may have to consider him just to see my friends' reaction haha.
Deck looks great :)

That Emrakul's Hatcher in your maybe board is a touch better than Brood Monitor for same results (basically) at 1 mana less in my opinion. You can't even use Green Sun's Zenith to get the Brood Monitor as it's colorless.

You have a range of creatures that produce around 2-4 tokens at the 3-5 mana range, and you'll get a lot of consistency of value. Where as I've gone for the more risk/reward type of game plan. Higher highs, but lower lows.

Yeah all you need to do is start getting fetch-lands as you can afford them. Even if it's not Korvold in a few years, you'll always have decks to put them into and they will never lose value. So don't be afraid to get a present for yourself every so often.
They really do make a difference to your draw and you get that additional landfall for Tireless Tracker and Nesting Dragon.

Also eventually if you can afford a Dockside Extortionist, he is pretty consistent at drawing you cards and gaining mana.

Nihil Spellbomb has always impressed me in my Korvold deck, because you can use it as sacrifice fodder AND still get the additional draw by spending b. Having at least one card that can handle graveyard strategies can really change the dynamics of the game. It's not about using it, it's about how long you can not use it and opponents are kind of stuck to go ahead how they really want to.

Living Death is worth every penny ($4). With all the sacrifice outlets, chances are you can setup much better recursion than your opponents. Remember it's both a board wipe (Damnation) and a graveyard recursion (Wake the Dead). Once you get skilled at playing it, your deck is going to be much more potent for it.
Sure there are some games where you've handled (or opponents) creatures during the game and so it doesn't seem appealing to cast it. In these instances you might not. But once you get used to it being in your deck, you can plan around it much better.
After a few games, my opponents knew exactly when and what card to counter to disrupt my game plan, so that I would end up with zero mana (when I'm playing Korvold, I'm usually the archenemy).
Veil of Summer will be a nice card for you to pack then. For my competitive play groups I usually always have Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast as there is 100% a blue splash deck at the table.

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Post by Elincia » 4 years ago

Thanks for your feedback, greatly appreciated! I agree, Emrakul's Hatcher is a better option than Brood Monitor, and I should definitely run Living Death. I'll add it to my shopping list with Dockside Extortionist (a bit expensive, but I should be able to buy it next month). I do have a Veil of Summer lying around, good idea. Thanks for your advice!

For now, except for my recursion subtheme in my Korvold deck, we don't really have graveyard strategies in my meta, but I'll be sure to add Nihil Spellbomb when that becomes the case.
You have a range of creatures that produce around 2-4 tokens at the 3-5 mana range, and you'll get a lot of consistency of value. Where as I've gone for the more risk/reward type of game plan. Higher highs, but lower lows.
That's what I was aiming for, yes! I'll make the changes you suggested and take it for a spin this weekend, see how it performs and will report back! It's my first solid Johnny deck (otherwise I play smash Ghired, Conclave Exile and voltronish Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale) and I find it incredibly fun to play, especially when you start to drain the whole table with Purphoros, God of the Forge and Blood Artist out (this card is nuts, it can put you so far ahead, so easily, just because of the life gain).

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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

So this is what I have put together as my build:
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

Some basic guidelines I used for myself:
I wanted streamlined and silly things, but not enough tutors to build the same line of play everytime. I need some variety in the experience. I also wanted some recursion for resiliency.

No off color fetches, personal rule.
The following are excluded simply because I don't have them:
Badlands
Gaea's Cradle
Prismatic Vista
Fabled Passage
The Dust Bowl is because it feels unpleasant to run Strip Mine or Wasteland in a deck with Crucible of Worlds. I want to be able to answer problem lands, but I would rather make it harder for me to lock someone.
I made sure I have plenty of lands. Being able to cast, or recast Korvold is so important, and if I have too many lands I can always sac them to him. It's much better to flood than the alternative.

I wanted to power up Pawn of Ulamog and Sifter of Skulls, so I added more bodies that are around to sac after they've had their effect, as well as the 2 creatures that jump out of the graveyard.
I also don't want to rely on hitting someone with just the commander, so I have a handful of beaters or token creators that beat face hard. I also have the 2 that chip away at opponents to make beating down easier, Blood Artist doesn't make the cut because he only hits 1 player at a time.

Cards in my build that are probably weakest and could be cut for other things:
Mycoloth - We've discussed it to death at this point
Decimator of the Provinces - It's more cute than good
Xenagos, the Reveler - He's not bad. If you've got a lot of bodies, the mana is almost always fantastic. If you don't, he gives you tokens which are nice, but very low impact/power.
Tireless Tracker - Without an outlet to eat a bunch of clues at once, he never gets insane, and is merely solid.

The deck is also short on cheap, instant-speed interaction/disruption. I think I'm mostly okay with that weakness, although that and tutors for consistency would be where I would tighten things up. I just don't want to remove any of the fun things that I have to really do so.

I'm pretty happy with where it is currently. Its explosive, but not based around a singular line of play. The Commander is the focus, but even without him you can pull of a lot of damage or silly hings out of nowhere. It also uses, but is not reliant on the graveyard. I love graveyard shenanigans, but I expect people to clamp down on them and don't want to be crippled when they do.

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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

Sharpened wrote:
4 years ago
So this is what I have put together as my build:
Looks good to me brother.

About the only suggestions that might help you is Yavimaya Dryad as a replacement for Farhaven Elf as you can get duel land Forests.

I'm not a huge fan of Crucible of Worlds in the deck. Just seems a lot redundant given so much card draw, you are going to be flooded more games that not. especially with 38 lands. Plus you have the World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation for graveyard land recursion.
It's the sort of cards I've tried in decks when I first started playing commander, and it just eventually got cut from every build I had as it under-performed.

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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

So Farhaven Elf was primarily because I didn't have a Springbloom Druid. But Yavimaya Dryad is interesting. May have to go that route as a placeholder. Forgot about that card and I love the design. I'll always be on the lookout for the rare corner case where its not wrong to give my opponents the land (it will always be wrong).

Crucible of Worlds is more about wanting it than it being important. It's probably not the best inclusion, but I'm willing to be suboptimal there. I've also considered Ramunap Excavator (instead, not in addition to) because the card is not important enough so the fragility is an okay tradeoff for increased synergy (can be sacrificed by my creature sac things, can get counters from Mazirek and beat). But it's a bit of a safety blanket that lets me do more shenanigans with land sacrificing and it's also something that brings the baseline up when things aren't working properly. If I'm doing ridiculous things with Korvold, it doesn't really help but I can afford the dead card. If I'm unable to get the big dragon engine running, it can strengthen my position.

As for 38 lands, there's no way that I think it's too many.
I want to cast my 5 drop as soon as possible.
I want to be able to recast him as a 7 drop or 9 drop if I have to.
The overall curve of the deck is high.
I want to have 7+ lands in play
I basically never want to miss a land drop
Mana is almost always the limiting factor on what I can accomplish
I have useful landfall triggers at high land counts, as well as ways to sac lands to generate value
The situations where I am flush with mana and unable to find any action are likely to be rare, and are certainly preferable to the situations where I am short on fuel and can't get things going.
I wouldn't be shocked if more than 38 is correct, as this deck isn't a lean and low to the ground efficiency machine.

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Post by Elincia » 4 years ago

The deck seems really solid, and I agree with the cards you mentioned that could be cut. Maybe you could run Emrakul's Hatcher as a replacement for Mycoloth for a more steady performance and added ramp. As for Xenagos, the Reveler, like all planeswalkers, he's really vulnerable to creatures with evasion, so maybe you could run Growing Rites of Itlimoc instead? Less flexibility but more resilience. Do you manage to produce a lot of bodies with Pawn of Ulamog and Sifter of Skulls? They always under-performed for me so I had to cut them. But I run much less creatures than you.

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Post by Sharpened » 4 years ago

I suspect if I cut Mycoloth it would be for something completely different. Emrakul's Hatcher strikes me as a card thats powerlevel is a little lower than I'd like. It has good synergy, but at the same time, feels like it's lacking in situations where Korvold is not online.

Growing Rites of Itlimoc is a card I was unable to get my hands on, so that's the primary reason I'm not running it. It's probably better than Xenagos, as you are never excited to use the token making ability (although it is a nice option to have), and while being able to produce the 2 colors is nice, it's not worth the vulnerabilities or timing restrictions when compared to the land.

Jury is still out on Pawn of Ulamog and Sifter of Skulls. They were underperforming, and I did some tweaking to try and get more out of them. I think it improved the deck as a whole, but I need to get more games in to get a better feel for their performance.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

I did a massive amount of theory-crafting around Underworld Breach and written an entire article covering most color combinations which you can check out here.

I've finally gotten around to analyzing it for my Korvold deck. So its of course a slam-dunk in the deck because I have so many ways to put cards into the graveyard in the first place.

The deck has the added advantage of also running other sacrifice outlets in Turntimber Sower, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Viscera Seer, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Sadistic Hypnotist, Phyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar.
This comes in potentially handy when looking at creatures you might want to recur with Underworld Breach.
The first one that comes to mind is Dockside Extortionist.

Brass's Bounty is another one that can combo to keep generating mana given enough lands. But even if you are just spinning the wheels say on 7 lands, with Korvold in play this means you draw 7 cards each time, which will win you the game anyway.

There are other ways to keep casting cards with Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar.
If you have Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder in play then you can just keep recasting almost any creature. Lets say its Burnished Hart, you can just keep sacrificing the thrulls for 6 mana to recast the Hart and you can even sacrifice it to get 2 basics with the other 3 mana.
Most of the creatures require colored mana however, so Phyrexian Altar could be used to cast Ingot Chewer for evoke with Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder in play to generate mana.

Note that I don't play cards like Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Songs of the Damned, Battle Hymn, Mana Geyser, which can be used to generate mana. I could easily see running these and they are still good at specifically casting Korvold earlier as well as other cards.
Rude Awakening or Early Harvest could be other ways, although the land base has a lot of non-basics and there are no mana doublers in the deck so these cards seem out of place for this build.

Now there are not any cards specifically that put more cards into your graveyard in an Underworld Breach engine type of way.
You could keep recasting Scapeshift. In fact you could just use Breach as a way to cast Scapeshift just literally another single time, and honestly that is normally enough to have drawn enough cards to close the game out.

What cards make Underworld Breach better in the deck?
Well Lion's Eye Diamond is another way to generate mana, and I already play Lotus Petal because having low costed cards in play you can sacrifice to Korvold is really important. So LED is definitely a good card in the deck, and can be used to cast Korvold at times you are confident you can discard your hand.

Now there are mass graveyard to battlefield cards in Living Death, World Shaper, Splendid Reclamation, so it is possible that you could look for more library to graveyard cards as well as helping Underworld Breach become better.

Dredge with Life from the Loam, Golgari Grave-Troll, Stinkweed Imp could be an option.

Altar of Dementia is another creature sacrifice outlet and you can use it to target yourself. However a lot of the token creatures have 0 power (Plants, Kobolds, Eggs) so not that good really.

Grinding Station only does artifacts, but is an actual combo with Underworld Breach enabling you to keep filtering through your library until you get to key cards you'd want to cast.

Mesmeric Orb is just one of those cards that puts a lot of cards into graveyard over turns, but also might potentially help your opponents with their own graveyard strategies, so only include if you are really deep on graveyard recursion, which this deck isn't really.

Hermit Druid is a cheap way to put cards into your graveyard and finding a basic land is still card advantage. The deck has 8 basics, but you could easily put more non-basics into the deck if wanting to put higher number of cards into the graveyard each activation.

Greater Good is way to draw and discard, which ultimately fuels the Underworld Breach. Sacrificing Korvold to this might happen if your opponents have removal for him anyway.
But as I've already said a lot of the tokens have low power. But you could look to use it more like a milling engine, rather than putting cards into your hand.
For example even if you are sacrificing creatures with 1 power, as long as you are resigned to the fact that you will be discarding your hand altogether, then you can keep sacrificing to put more cards into your graveyard.

Creeping Renaissance is the sort of card you want when you end up having a milling strategy, as it allows you to flashback and get the Underworld Breach if it gets milled.

How about other big hay-makers like Morality Shift or Doom Whisperer? Again I don't really play enough graveyard strategies to warrant these although they are not outside the realms of possibility.
The deck would require more life gain elements to make Doom Whisperer have more potential I feel.

These are the changes I've ended up doing over the last few weeks.
There is definitely a version I could make that focuses on the graveyard more, but I don't feel like warping around that strategy too much, as the theme is sacrifice, and I'm already getting incredible use out of Underworld Breach potentially in this deck.


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