Greven, Predator Captain - No Pain No Gain

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

LexanduR_ wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Do we care about hosing other peoples searches?
The Wheel of Misfortune looks ok? I don't know what to think of it

Jeweled Lotus is of course an auto include for Turn 2 or even Turn 1 Greven.

Opposition Agent will be making the deck as well.

I don't have Wheel of Fortune in the deck so Wheel of Misfortune I'd have to think about. But I do like the flavor of the card in general. It's going to be hard for your opponents to go to high on numbers due to Greven getting bonuses from them. But honestly I would struggle to cast this pre-combat due to not wanting opponents to draw into removal at instant speed, so not sure if it would work out in this clever way.

Another card from Commander Legends for Greven that has perked my interest is Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar you can drop some serious damage on all opponents.
I don't know yet but it might be a card that I at least test.

Discombobulated · Post by **Discombobulated** » 3 years ago

Hi Darrinhabib,

Looking good. I am curious how a reanimator package is going with Greven? I am so wary of ever putting a commander in my GY b/c I don't trust my meta not to exile it if they know I am running reanimator. I totally agree with some of the new Zendikar adds...Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt and Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass are auto adds with the 3 dmg on playing the land side plays right into Greven.

For Commander Legends I really like Wheel of Misfortune. Same mana as Wheel of Fortune and (I would argue) better for Greven. This is a great 1-sided wheel where we get to choose an appropriate number to give Greven any +X/+0 if we know the amount of power that will be needed to take a player out before combat. The wheel is just gravy. Just be sure to cast it for the higher number that you need and all the other players will likely bid zero or 1. Just another possible outlet to pump big G and a wheel to boot!
Jeweled Lotus does look amazing for early game but if you are rocking CEDH then it could be a late game dead card...that said, I am going to be putting one in my Greven deck if I get lucky enough to crack one!

Cheers,

D

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Discombobulated wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Hi Darrinhabib,

Looking good. I am curious how a reanimator package is going with Greven? I am so wary of ever putting a commander in my GY b/c I don't trust my meta not to exile it if they know I am running reanimator. I totally agree with some of the new Zendikar adds...Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt and Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass are auto adds with the 3 dmg on playing the land side plays right into Greven.

Hey, unfortunately I haven't been playing Greven much at all lately, just been giving Zendikar Rising commanders a run as of late and been playing less in general.

Remember that if your opponents exile your graveyard then you just send Greven to the command zone from the exile zone, so you don't need to worry about that at all.
Its just if you send Greven to GY and opponent counters your reanimation spell that it becomes risky that he'll sit there until you draw another reanimation.

For Commander Legends I really like Wheel of Misfortune. Same mana as Wheel of Fortune and (I would argue) better for Greven. This is a great 1-sided wheel where we get to choose an appropriate number to give Greven any +X/+0 if we know the amount of power that will be needed to take a player out before combat. The wheel is just gravy. Just be sure to cast it for the higher number that you need and all the other players will likely bid zero or 1. Just another possible outlet to pump big G and a wheel to boot!

I like the overall design of Wheel of Misfortune as well. I don't even run Wheel of Fortune however so currently not in the market for a Wheel effect.

Jeweled Lotus does look amazing for early game but if you are rocking CEDH then it could be a late game dead card...that said, I am going to be putting one in my Greven deck if I get lucky enough to crack one!

Yup, great include for Greven, casting on Turn 2 is exactly where you want to be and paying for commander tax later on is perfectly fine as well.

Opposition Agent doesn't have any synergy with the deck per se, however it is a 3 mana 3 power creature in a pinch and more likely just a way to stop opponents searching their libraries.

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LexanduR_ · Post by **LexanduR_** » 3 years ago

Discombobulated wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Looking good. I am curious how a reanimator package is going with Greven? I am so wary of ever putting a commander in my GY b/c I don't trust my meta not to exile it if they know I am running reanimator.

For Commander Legends I really like Wheel of Misfortune. Same mana as Wheel of Fortune and (I would argue) better for Greven. This is a great 1-sided wheel where we get to choose an appropriate number to give Greven any +X/+0 if we know the amount of power that will be needed to take a player out before combat. The wheel is just gravy. Just be sure to cast it for the higher number that you need and all the other players will likely bid zero or 1. Just another possible outlet to pump big G and a wheel to boot!

Its tricky when to decide to put Greven in the graveyard, you got to considerate many factors; Such as the speed of the game (is your pod a slug fest or a cEDH "got to combo fast" type of game?), the possibility of counterspells [these are even trickier, maybe they use it just to spite X player, or they are smart enough to save it to stop a combo, it also depends on how many counterspells they might run, etc], if you are lacking or not enough mana to recast greven next turn, or even if you got a back up plan if the reanimator spell didn't resolve properly.
I usually do it without worrying when I have 2 reanimation spells in hand.

Be careful with the Wheel, as darrenhabib mentioned, you could be wheeling 2 players a new hand with removal...

Discombobulated · Post by **Discombobulated** » 3 years ago

ummm, you two are totally right about Greven to the GY! I think I have MTG PTSD from my meta messing with any cards I put into the GY that I need...

Yep, totally understand about Wheel of Misfortune. I think I am just a little giddy that it is essentially a 3 mana, draw 7 with a bit O synergy with Greven. I am going to run it in my deck b/c I like to live a little dangerously!

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

There a bunch of cards I want to try from Kaldheim.
Tibalt's Trickery gives off Chaos Warp vibes. You use what you are given in Rakdos.

Egon, God of Death got high power and even if you cant pay the cost if trying to keep in play replaces itself. The backside Throne of Death could even be cast if you have a reanimation card in hand and are looking for targets.

Birgi, God of Storytelling got 3 power and can be a way to cast more cards each turn. You could also use the backside Harnfel, Horn of Bounty for card advantages. If you are going to discard to hand size for example you could easily discard cards in order to find artifact mana or whatever.

Kardur, Doomscourge has basically a goad enter the battlefield trigger which means that you are certainly going to get opponents struggling with blocking the following turn. You can sacrifice it to Greven immediately and opponents still need to attack as it was an ETB.

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Ardeyn · Post by **Ardeyn** » 3 years ago

Have you tried out Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar?
It's brutal if you can attack for 10 poison with Tainted Strike and kill the table.

Ardeyn

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Ardeyn wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Have you tried out Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar?
It's brutal if you can attack for 10 poison with Tainted Strike and kill the table.

Ardeyn

I've not been a fan of Tainted Strike as an idea for Greven just because he can deal the 21 commander damage so consistently.
If Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar also applied commander damage with Greven then it would be an include for sure.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Well there wasn't anything of interest much for Greven in Strixhaven, however C21 has some cards of interest already and those are to do with Witches.
Witch's Clinic is a colorless land which I try to keep to a minimum, however this land is perfect as a way to get back the damage.
There is also Veinwitch Coven which is a way to get recursive use out of sacrifices. Also a 3/3 for 3 mana which can be sacced if need for draw.

Gamazson · Post by **Gamazson** » 3 years ago

My found that my previous build was durdling too much. Though I do not have resources to match your decks power level, I did use it as an outline in reshaping mine. I'm still sad I haven't figured out where to squeeze in Chandra's Ignition.

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Side Note: The golgari C21 deck is a gift to us I think. Keen Duelist is going to be a poor man's Bob. Marshland Bloodcaster is in many ways better than Bolas's Citadel , plus Veinwitch Coven and Witch's Clinic that you have already mentioned.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Gamazson wrote: ↑
3 years ago
My found that my previous build was durdling too much. Though I do not have resources to match your decks power level, I did use it as an outline in reshaping mine. I'm still sad I haven't figured out where to squeeze in Chandra's Ignition.

Side Note: The golgari C21 deck is a gift to us I think. Keen Duelist is going to be a poor man's Bob. Marshland Bloodcaster is in many ways better than Bolas's Citadel , plus Veinwitch Coven and Witch's Clinic that you have already mentioned.

I personally would go up to 35 lands in your build just because without the zero costed artifact mana (and others) you are more reliant on making those land drops in the early game.
To make up for less quick mana I'd also play Wayfarer's Bauble, Mind Stone, Cabal Ritual.
I think the weakest cards in the deck are Blood Celebrant, Loyal Subordinate, Kargan Intimidator, Grim Return.

Marshland Bloodcaster is a super powerful card but not sure how to access it yet.

I should probably add Hatred my deck, it works in much the same ways as Ad Nauseam and just too much flavor win.

Gamazson · Post by **Gamazson** » 3 years ago

Thank you for the feed back. I might not need so much mana, so I won't go with Cabal Ritual. I have a Grimgrin Deck that performs well in my meta with 35 land and 10 mana rocks, so if I mirror that, I think I'll be fine.

As for Hatred, if you have a copy, I recommend it over Ad Nauseum 100%. It will one shot a player 90% of the time, with Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar, you can one shot the table. Commander damage is irrelevant if you spend 20 life to give him +40/+0. If you really need the card advantage, you can buff whatever you were about to sacrifice to Grevan. Though in good conscience I cannot recommend spending $75 on it if you don't already have a copy.

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Greven, Predator Cpatain

Commander

1 Greven, Predator Captain

Life Combo Creatures

1 Treasonous Ogre

1 Volcano Hellion

1 Wall of Blood

Creature

1 Anger

1 Azra Oddsmaker

1 Chainer, Nightmare Adept

1 Filth

1 Immolating Souleater

1 Kardur, Doomscourge

1 Kargan Intimidator

1 Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar

1 Keen Duelist

1 Marshland Bloodcaster

1 Veinwitch Coven

1 Vilis, Broker of Blood

1 Vindictive Lich

Reanimation

1 Animate Dead

1 Reanimate

Protection

1 Bolt Bend

1 Imp's Mischief

1 Tibalt's Trickery

Instant Mana

1 Dark Ritual

Instant Lifegain

1 Alchemist's Gift

1 Blessing of Belzenlok

1 Cruel Feeding

1 Rush of Vitality

Lifegain

1 Essence Harvest

1 Whip of Erebos

Artifact

1 Dolmen Gate

1 Expedition Map

1 Netherborn Altar

Looting

1 Faithless Looting

Instant Removal & Theft

1 Act of Aggression

1 Chaos Warp

Sorcery Removal & Theft

1 Feed the Swarm

1 Tentative Connection

1 Vandalblast

Mass Destruction

1 Fire Covenant

1 Phyrexian Purge

1 Toxic Deluge

Card Advantage

1 Grim Tutor

1 Night's Whisper

1 Sign in Blood

Combat Tricks

1 Hatred

Enchantment

1 Necropotence

1 Phyrexian Reclamation

1 Sneak Attack

Equipment

1 Shadowspear

1 Vorrac Battlehorns

Mana Rock

1 Mind Stone

1 Sol Ring

1 Talisman of Indulgence

1 Thought Vessel

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Chrell93 · Post by **Chrell93** » 2 years ago

Hi guys.

Thank you all for the insights into Greven Voltron.
So, I've always enjoyed the idea of voltron in EDH. My first EDH-deck was a Glissa, the Traitor voltron-deck. It wasn't very strong. I quickly realized that the idea of one big beater has the monumental downside of dying to single target removal.

My interest was, however, piqued once Greven was spoiled. I did not built it, though, fearing removal.
Now, last week my friend decided to hand out an ass-whoopin' to the playgroup with his new Pako+Haldan-deck. It was voltron, and it was beautiful. After being beaten multiple times by the deck, I looked back at my Greven build online and thought "maybe this could work after all. Greven can effectively one-shot players."
As such, it was an absolute marvelous blast to find this in-depth thread on the commander I want to use.
If you find the time, please revise my still-unfinished decklist, and bring comments.
I don't know how to upload here, so I'll just link to Archidekt:
https://archidekt.com/decks/170043#Grev ... henanigans

The plan is similar to yours', but I have not delved into reanimator. I am thoroughly committed to one-shotting players, though.

Also, how do you think a deck this would fare in relation to a voltron-deck like Pako+Haldan that has access to green ramp?

Cheers.

Haman · Post by **Haman** » 2 years ago

hi Chrell93 ,
the secret to this deck is get to 6 mana, cast greven preferably with haste, attack and draw or protect it.
darrenhabib's deck has Treasonous Ogre, Generator Servant, Dockside Extortionist. Treasure Nabber, Gamble
Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Dark Ritual, Faithless Looting + 11 artifact mana + 33 land which is about 53 mana source
the protection spells and the lifegain are important..without chaining into lifegain, the deck will become glass cannony as you don't have that much life to continue to punch another player

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 2 years ago

Chrell93 wrote: ↑
2 years ago
Thank you all for the insights into Greven Voltron.

Hi, glad you might have gotten some ideas from this thread.

I had a look through your deck and many of the creatures in your list were the ones that I was originally rocking. But over time I've really trended towards lower powered creatures that have utility abilities instead. The reasons are that mainly the bottleneck is mana rather than cards drawn I find during games.

I think you've gone overboard with the haste element. If you look at a lot of your creatures they either only stick around for a turn or do something detrimental if you do keep them around for a turn. So its unlikely that you will be casting for example Cosmic Larva AND Greven in the same turn.

I basically swear by all the choices I have in the deck so I can only suggest that you pick up as many as possible that are within your budget.

Also, how do you think a deck this would fare in relation to a voltron-deck like Pako+Haldan that has access to green ramp?

I do think that Simic is the strongest color pair in commander and that Rakdos is the weakest (in general). But Greven is the ultimate in one shotting players so if the Pako+Haldan hasn't gotten away too fast then you will have decent chance of killing them before they get their feet under them.

Signe · Post by **Signe** » 2 years ago

Whoa! I really love this list and your ideas here, honestly I am sad t osee up in thread that you've stopped playing him as much because this is so well-written and has given me a lot of new ideas for Rakdos, a color combination I really only ever use for Madness. Thanks for this thread and I hope you keep updating it!

Post by **Legend** » 2 years ago

Why Moltensteel Dragon over Hex Parasite when the latter is so much more mana efficient and potentially useful?

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 2 years ago

Legend wrote: ↑
2 years ago
Why Moltensteel Dragon over Hex Parasite when the latter is so much more mana efficient and potentially useful?

You can get massive draw with the Moltensteel Dragon as you draw cards equal to power. It only cost 4 mana and it's likely that you have that when you need to cast Greven for 5 anyway. Hope that makes sense.

Artaud · Post by **Artaud** » 2 years ago

I've found little gem to use with Greven - Unexpected Fangs. It's two-mana instant but lifelink counter stays on Greven till he leaves.

How about using more "lifelosing" removal like Dismember, Snuff Out and/or Withering Boon instead of steal effects (which work well only when Greven is out)? Their lifeloss is fixed but they can snipe or prevent opposing threats anytime.

There is also Doom Weaver from Crimson Vow Commander to use big Greven (or any of its sac targets) in other way to draw cards.

Gamazson · Post by **Gamazson** » 2 years ago

I think that Shakedown Heavy has a place in the deck. I'll be swapping out my Azra Oddsmaker to test it out.

Artaud · Post by **Artaud** » 2 years ago

Gamazson wrote: ↑
2 years ago
I think that Shakedown Heavy has a place in the deck. I'll be swapping out my Azra Oddsmaker to test it out.

A good call. You can stack triggers with Greven the way they benefit you most.

I wonder why people use cards like Azra, Kardul or Egon in this deck. Azraseems like a bad draw engine compared to Greven, Kardul may help Greven to connect but any other effect do it anyway (Arbiter, Filth, Shadowspear) and Egon is just big dork without evasion you may find hard to feed early. Same goes for Wall of Blood, Volcano Hellion and other generic fat that makes lifeloss for bigger Greven. I think only few such effects are needed with the assortment of black tutors available to find them.

I think there should some kind of plan B if Greven gets stolen or killed/countered too many times. There is also Netherborn Altar which helps to replay Greven AND makes incremental lifeloss for him.

Gamazson · Post by **Gamazson** » 2 years ago

I use Netherborn Altar and I find that is effective, so it is a good choice.

Kardur, Doomscourge I will defend keeping. In a meta heavy on creatures he is an absolute bomb if played strategically. Basically Disrupt Decorum on a beat stick. I also run Sneak Attack which allows me to do it at instant speed.

Haman · Post by **Haman** » 2 years ago

My greven deck runs
38 land 12 rock 50 mana sources
9 lifegain , choosing 2 cc to cast or equiped
9 protection
4 haste
12 lifeloss creatures 5 x 3 cc+ 7 x 4cc
11 removal
4 misc

Most of the fatties are in the lifeloss categery..i only use those that can block, to deter opponents. Usually changeable.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 2 years ago

I took a break from Magic so haven't played the deck in like 6 months. So I'm in the boat that if you've got suggestions then I'm all ears, tech me up!

Return to Action is perfect addition, lifelink and a way to save creatures.

Ob Nixilis, the Adversary seems like it could be an alternative to Greven in builds that specifically have 7 power (or greater) so that you can get the card draw immediately.
So if your build has things like Yargle, Glutton of Urborg, Cosmic Larva, Rotting Regisaur, etc then it definitely could be a card to try.

Artaud wrote: ↑
2 years ago

Gamazson wrote: ↑
2 years ago
I think that Shakedown Heavy has a place in the deck. I'll be swapping out my Azra Oddsmaker to test it out.
A good call. You can stack triggers with Greven the way they benefit you most.

I wonder why people use cards like Azra, Kardul or Egon in this deck. Azraseems like a bad draw engine compared to Greven, Kardul may help Greven to connect but any other effect do it anyway (Arbiter, Filth, Shadowspear) and Egon is just big dork without evasion you may find hard to feed early. Same goes for Wall of Blood, Volcano Hellion and other generic fat that makes lifeloss for bigger Greven. I think only few such effects are needed with the assortment of black tutors available to find them.

I think there should some kind of plan B if Greven gets stolen or killed/countered too many times. There is also Netherborn Altar which helps to replay Greven AND makes incremental lifeloss for him.

The idea of having smaller, more mid-range creatures is so in those games where Grevan gets shut out more, at least you still can tick along getting value.
As Gamazson points out I stand by Kardur, Doomscourge as well, because getting low on life is a big deal with this type of deck and the swing backs can easily leave you dead if you fail to do the lifelink gain back combos.

Gamazson wrote: ↑
2 years ago
I use Netherborn Altar and I find that is effective, so it is a good choice.

Kardur, Doomscourge I will defend keeping. In a meta heavy on creatures he is an absolute bomb if played strategically. Basically Disrupt Decorum on a beat stick. I also run Sneak Attack which allows me to do it at instant speed.

I did try Netherborn Altar for a bit, but decided to go with reanimation spells instead as they are more versatile with other cards in the deck, although they are separate functionality as exile effects send Greven back to the Command zone.

Haman wrote: ↑
2 years ago
My greven deck runs
38 land 12 rock 50 mana sources
9 lifegain , choosing 2 cc to cast or equiped
9 protection
4 haste
12 lifeloss creatures 5 x 3 cc+ 7 x 4cc
11 removal
4 misc

Most of the fatties are in the lifeloss categery..i only use those that can block, to deter opponents. Usually changeable.

I have decided to add another land to the deck as there are some nice "new" ones to try out.

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Artemis132 · Post by **Artemis132** » 1 year ago

Black Market Connections seems to be a good addition to the deck and a strong card in general.

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