[Deck] Bridgevine / Dredgevine

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ktkenshinx
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Post by ktkenshinx » 4 years ago

This is a placeholder thread. If you are interested in taking over the thread and/or writing a primer, PM the moderator team.
This is the thread to discuss the Bridgevine / Dredgevine archetype in Modern.
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010

metalmusic_4
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 4 years ago

Now that bridge is banned what is everyone thinking about retooling the deck? I am considering merging it with dredge as a starting point. I am looking at trying just stinkweed imp and golgari thug first. Prized amalgam maybe.

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

My first inclination is to go up to 4 Viscera Seer and 4 Cathartic Reunion, while dropping 4 Bridge from Below and 4 Altar of Dementia. It should give better drawing power for SB wars.

The 1 generic mana 1/1 that has haste and exiles the top card of your library; you can use red to discard your hand to draw all of the face down exiled cards, may see some play in the deck. I'm not sure. I want to see some people build a list first, but maybe it's just not as consistent as it was before?
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

Erian Ignis
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Post by Erian Ignis » 4 years ago

So I am currently testing this:

The idea is to replace the now banned combo with a sort-of combo. That is, a small Hollow One package.

Indeed the randomness can be hurtful, but we have 16 cards we want in our Graveyard (plus another 4 that, if discarded, can still be used). I like the speed with which Burning Inquiry fills the Graveyard, and I also tried to add another angle to the Deck which does not get hosed completely by GY hate.

In practice, the engine performed averagely. Neither did it overperform nor did it it hinder me at all, even with the randomness of Inquiry. I will probably test Satyr again after this weekend's results. I tested it a while ago but wasn't personally impressed. I found it stretched our color needs too much at the beginning and is somewhat slow (for my tastes) at 2 mana. But I cannot certainly argue with the results, so another test is in order. Also, my current build has no interaction whatsoever and I sometimes get beat pretty badly by absolute must-kill-on-sight creatures.

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

Played in a 26 person FNM with Hogaak for the first time since the Bridge from Below banning.

Round 1 vs. Tron. Played against a bud in the first round. He didn't have Relic of Progenitus. My dudes ran loose and killed him quickly. In the next game, a hand that went from fine to terrible in the first few turns after Relic of Progenitus, then I had Vengevines and Hogaak that kept coming back to slay triple Wurmcoil Engine over the course of many turns. He drew a lot of land and ended up only playing 1 Ugin to exile my board, then a late game Karn. This game also went too long because I made a stupid mistake of exiling 2 Golgari Thug when I didn't need to cast the first Hogaak. I'm not used to watching out for Dredgers, but there's no excuse. I gotta play better. I probably would have won a turn earlier. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. UW Control. I win the first game fairly easy after triple Path to Exile deals with some dudes and he runs out of Cryptic Command and ScM. In the next game, he gets turn 2 Rest in Peace. I then draw Thoughtseize. He has 4th land, Opt, Path to Exile, and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. I should have taken the Gearhulk, but I'm more scared of Opt, so I take it. I lose to that Gearhulk because with RIP and Vigilance, there's hardly a way for me to get through. I use the last counter on Gemstone Mine to hard cast Vengevine, but Path to Exile makes my double block bad. I knew he had it obviously, but I can't win if Gearhulk stays on the table. I should have been more scared of Gearhulk than Opt. :( In the last game, he plays Force of Negation on my turn 1 Faithless Looting and it slows me down immensely, but I recover and he doesn't draw much else after triple Path to Exile on my dudes. So my Golgari Thug crunches him low and when he taps out late game, I draw a Gemstone Mine and hard cast a Vengevine from hand to finish him. 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Zoo. In game 1, I do triple Bloodghast by turn 2 and just get too much aboard, even for Noble Hierarch into Path and Goyf. I barely cross over the finish line when I find a Hogaak past the middle of my deck. All kinds of critters come out and I go wide. In the next game, turn 2 Scavenging Ooze wrecks me while I mill away 2 Lightning Axe. I don't see the 3rd copy of Lightning Axe or Assassin's Trophies. My mills are just slow enough for him to get the stuff that matters with Ooze and it kills me when a Goyf joins it late. In the next game, I have a fairly quick Bloodghast, Vengevine hand, but he turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. He tells me that he kept on 1 land later on. He peeled lands 2-4 off the top and casts things in order, finishing with Bloodbraid Elf while I have a Plague Engineer. He races me since he has Bolt and I draw nothing else that matters. Vengevine in my opener and drew another, but milled Overgrown Tomb and Gemstone Mines never came up. Sad. I drew Fatal Push on the final turn. Kind of wish I had that in Game 2 when Scooze singlehandedly beat me (or Trophy or Axe). 1-2.

Round 4 vs. Mono Red Phoenix. Put out a Hogaak on turn 2. Probably should have just done Lightning Axe on his dude since those Prowess bros can do 4-8 damage in a turn when unblocked. I leave the blockers I can and then swing for lethal. The next game is similar, but I Lightning Axe a blocker after he does Bolt, Bolt on turn 2, untap, Bolt, Lava Spike and I'm at 4 life with 1 card in hand for him. I swing hard with Hogaak, Vengevine, and Bloodghasts. He draws for the turn and can't do 4 damage with 2 cards. He starts with Faithless Looting and I feel safer, even if flashback Lava Dart and Lava Spike kills me. He scoops. Got there. 2-0.

3-1 with the deck. Had some hiccups in the middle rounds, but I see no reason to run anything else at a 1K tomorrow. Wish me luck!
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

Got wrecked at the 1K. 54 players.

Round 1 vs. UW Control. This is a guy I haven't played against in a year, but I used to always beat him. He likes playing fair strategies. In the first game, I Loot into Vengevine and Bloodghast in my yard. He scoops before playing anything. The last time I saw him, he was on UR Phoenix, so I assumed that and sided in removal for Thing. It actually didn't matter much in game 2 because I mulled to 5 and only drew 1 Lightning Axe, shipping 1 other to the bottom during the London Mulligan process. He played Rest in Peace on turn 2. I drew crap. I played Satyr Wayfinder and milled Assassin's Trophy. I got rid of it with the other Trophy, but when I put a lot of power on board and he had 4 cards in hand, 1 of which I knew was Path to Exile, I got Settle the Wreckaged. Sorry, I'm not playing around that. The game got somewhat close after I rebuilt, but by that time, he drew a planes walker per turn essentially. In the next game, after another mulligan to 5 by me, he Path to Exiled 2 dudes, then I started drawing pretty badly. He did Winds of Abandon on another Hogaak. Then he got a late game RIP after using 2 Snapcaster Mages on Cryptic Command and drew Jace the Mind Sculptor for the turn. Two +2s on me revealed 2 Hogaaks in a row, but then he shipped 2 Assassin's Trophies in a row. So Ass Trophy, my draw step not an Ass Trophy, then Ass Trophy. He got me! 1-2.

Round 2 vs. Mono Red Prison. I knew what this guy was on because I played him before and see him all the time on FB. I was hoping to dodge "lose the die roll, he exiles SSG and casts Chalice of the Void on 1. I won a die roll! :o I Loot. I put Bloodghasts. He does do the Chalice of the Void on 1. I landfall 2 Bloodghast and then fetch and cast Hogaak from turn. He scoops 2 turns later. In the next game, he does turn 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel...no Chalice. Then another one. I have to put myself to 3 life to get some blockers, including a Hogaak on board. He has 1 card. He draws and plays Ensnaring Bridge with a 3rd land. :( Now I can't attack or cast Shenanigans. :( In the final game, I Loot. He does exile SSG, Chalice of the Void on 1. I do turn 2 Satyr Wayfinder and then get a Hogaak out on turn 3. I have some power on board with those and a Vengevine and he does Chandra, Torch of Defiance, but I just keep Assassin's Trophy for Chalice and Nature's Claim for whatever else in hand just in case. 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. He plays Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow. I don't attack with 2/1s because I want to go wide and not make Shadow big. I have a super wide board and attack, but he Fatal Push into Snapcaster Mage Fatal Push and it's still lethal. But it was closer than I assumed it would be. In the next game, he goes turn 2 Yixlid Jailer after my mull to 6 was going to be really good. Nope, my graveyard cards stay there. I keep casting Satyr Wayfinders, which mill Lightning Axe and Assassin's Trophy. But he removes them and I eventually kill a Jailer with a block by a 3rd Satyr Wayfinder and then Assassin's Trophy on another. But he now has 4 land and 1 card in hand. He has played 2 Yixlid Jailer. He draws up to 2 cards and uses his 4 mana to cast 2 Yixlid Jailer. :o 4 Yixlid Jailer? Interesting. I was hoping to draw 1 of 2 Plague Engineer, but that would have been too lucky. In the final game, I mull to 4 and keep drawing lands, so I do nothing. But I have a Plague Engineer in my opener that I'm waiting to play after he plays his 4 Yixlid Jailer again. I'm hoping he will overextend so I can wipe a few before he uses his removal to kill the Engineer. But he never plays those. His hand is slow and he casts Gurmag Angler and Shadow on turn 4. I eventually try to get a lot of blockers, but I HAVE to play out the Engineer to cast Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. I should have 2 blockers now, but he does Disdainful Stroke. Lol, I wish he did that when I was out ahead on board, but it's enough for him to flash in a ScM. It dies due to Plague Engineer on Human, but he gets Fatal Push to Push the Engineer now and it's exactly 8 damage. Sad times. 1-2.

Round 4 vs. Grixis Urza. I Loot good stuff into the yard after a mull to 6. He does turn 1 ... Grafdigger's Cage. I never draw anything good enough to get pressure and Hogaak is nowhere to be found in the top million cards (I mean I do need to draw it since Cage is out). He combos me on turn 5 or 6 after I play some 1/1s. In the next game, my mull to 6 puts a lot of stuff in the yard and he scoops before playing even a 2nd land. The final game is funny. He gets a Blood Moon on his turn 4; the turn before I can hard cast Vengevine. But I can fetch Swamp in response, so I'm not dead. I did not expect this since I don't run it in my Grixis Urza. Now any Nature's Claims or Assassin's Trophies are going to be dead later on. I don't actually draw any of those, but he does triple Urza and I literally cannot find Hogaak until he has 2 big Construct X/Xs in play. The turn after, he casts his 3rd Urza. He also got a lot of activations along the way, but mostly cards from his hand killed me, not the activations, which got mostly land. Any who, he has Thopters. He gets Sai. He draws Pyrite Spellbomb the turn after I (luckily) draw Plague Engineer on Thopter. I got to cast 6 Faithless Looting this game, mostly after the Blood Moon, so I can't complain. He just beat me fair and square. Might have done better on a mull to 5, but honestly I Delved 4 Thoughtseize and a Marsh Flats to show that those 4 Thoughtseize were in my yard before the FIRST Hogaak when his Constructs were not HUGE. Oh well, a turn 17 Hogaak is better than no Hogaak, right? :( 1-2.

I go 1-3 and got wrecked. I'm not sure exactly what I could have done better. I know at FNM, I should side in Shenanigans for the singleton Grafdigger's Cage. It doesn't hurt putting it in the deck and taking out some random card that is hosed by grave hate. I feel terrible for that one. Not sure what I could have done here. I kind of wish I ran Titanshift like I was going to before my friend said, "just run Hogaak" and it made sense since it's slightly broken. Turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage singleton vs. Titanshift. Okay bro.... LMFAO.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Depian
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Post by Depian » 4 years ago

I went 11-4 at GP Barcelona, here is the list I played:

I went with 0 byes and in round 1, game 1 my opponent mulls to 3 and wins with Auras and ends up winning the round, not a great start but what can you do. I won the next 4 rounds, lost in R6 vs Tron and won the rest of the rounds to end 7-2. Day 2 went really smooth as I started 4-0 and could top8 if I had won my last 2 rounds but I faced 2 Urza decks (the first one played white with T3feri, D Sphere and Path, the second one was Grixis with Goblin Engineer), they both crushed me and it felt like they were always ahead, not a great matchup for us.

The decks I faced during the tournament were:
3 Humans
2 UW Control
2 Urza
Hogaak
Auras
Green Tron
Dredge
RB Skelementals
UR Breach
Bring to Light Scapeshift
Neoform

For my next tournament I am going to replace Ancient Grudge with the 3rd Assassin's Trophy, I am happy with the mainboard as many people here play Humans and that's why I am running 2 Darkblast in addition to the 3 Lightning Axe main. Cryptbreaker is very good in every game that stalls a bit and also when facing RIP or Leyline, I would like to make room for a 2nd Plague Engineer in the sideboard but I don't know if it's worth it over anything else already in there

Erian Ignis
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Post by Erian Ignis » 4 years ago

How often do you feel constrained by the mana base? Probably I am too dumb to live but I find Satyr Wayfinder way too clunky. I cannot really find a moment to cast it.

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Depian
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Post by Depian » 4 years ago

I really didn't have issues with the manabase, with 10 fetchlands I could reliably find any color I needed. Satyr is like Supplier but for 2 mana and it helps finding lands for Bloodghast, I play 3 copies as I don't really want to draw too many in the early game
Satyr T2 is good if you can reliably cast Hogaak off it (leading with Supplier or having another black creature in play+Hogaak in hand+at least another card in graveyard) but if you don't have another creature, I cast it later unless I have no other plays since it won't be able to cast Hogaak that turn

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

Nice job!

You went 3-0 vs. Humans and beat Neoform? That's pretty sick. I've seen some say Humans in favored, but at least when Bridge was legal and I tested Humans vs. Bridge Vine, Humans seemed favored at about 55/45 in my opinion. (I tested mostly against Humans since it's what I had to test against, so I kept jamming and jamming, trying to find a way to beat them)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Depian
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Post by Depian » 4 years ago

Well, Neoform was a close one, I lead with Thoughtseize and took Neoform but they also had Eldrith Evolution, 1 turn before I killed them, they had to sac a land to draw a card and they were 1 mana short of going off so I was lucky there.
Vs Humans, most other Hogaak decks were having trouble (it should be favored for Humans, something like 55/45), I think it's because I was packing more removal, specially Darkblast that I was able to win those games, Plague Engineer did a lot of work and it allowed me to kill a Mantis Rider with Darkblast (cast in upkeep, dredge it and cast again)

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

So who's going to the Magic Fest Las Vegas? Who is planning on running Hogaak? Anybody? I'm kind of torn between it and trying something else...
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

Erian Ignis
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Post by Erian Ignis » 4 years ago

I'd say to use Hogaak while you can. It has actually become one of my favorite Decks ever. I find it very flavorful (as opposed to Dredge, which I find non-intuitive from a flavor point of view). I find it really delivers the "Necromancer" ideal of playing with undead creatures.

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 years ago

Last hurrah for Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis before it gets banned tomorrow. I went to Magic Fest Las Vegas and entered a Mythic Championship Qualifier.

Round 1 vs.

Round 2 vs.

Round 3 vs.

Round 4 vs.

Round 5 vs.

Round 6 vs.

So I finished 5-1, which felt not bad. I decide to go with Hogaak for the GP.

Round 1 vs. Bye. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. Bye. 2-0.

Round 3 vs. 8 Whack. In the first game, he put pressure, but I got to 7 life with his 1 card in hand. I believed it to be Goblin Grenade, so I was scared of top decks, but it wasn't and I got there soon thereafter. Darkblast main was key too. In the next game, he kept a 6 with Tormod's Crypt and Grafdigger's Cage. I blew up the Cage and forced him to use the Crypt. His hand was slow and I rebuilt. 2-0.

Round 4 vs. Paradoxical Urza. I win on turn 4 after she hard cast Urza on 3. In the next one, she goes off on turn 4 after casting Urza on 3. She draws a bunch of cards with her 2nd Paradoxical Outcome and I scoop to a large Construct attacking. In the final game, I put a lot of pressure on board on turn 2 and put her low on turn 3. She scoops. I had Assassin's Trophy in hand too in case she had Ensnaring Bridge. 2-1.

Round 5 vs. Hogaak. I was on the play and barely got there, him not hitting as many Vengevine as me. In the next one, he mulled to 5 and his hand was slow, presumably something to kill my hate, which I didn't have. I went quickly and got there, still with Force of Vigor and Green card in hand in case. 2-0.

Round 6 vs. Hogaak. Up against Ben Friedman playing Wet Hogaak or Hedron Crab. In the first one, I Loot twice, but miss a 2nd land drop. He accelerates and I get a turn 3 Hogaak off Stitcher's Supplier X 2. He gets there. In the next game, both of us have hate, but he Assassin's Trophy my Leyline and then goes off. I kept drawing more Force of Vigor instead of something to win with. I asked him for SB advice later. 0-2.

Round 7 vs. Grixis Urza. My hand is quick and I even have removal for a possible Bridge, which he does play on turn 3 and I do blow up. In the next game, my artifact hate ruined his 5 card hand. 2-0.

Round 8 vs. Hogaak. Up against the X seed in the top 8 on Wet Hogaak. He mills more Vengevines and wins. In game 2, the Judges notice that he shuffled 11 cards from his SB upside down, have a long discussion, appeal, and give him a game loss. It doesn't matter, as he gets more Vengevines than me in the final game after double Looting misses 2 land drops. Sad. 1-2.

Round 9 vs. Soulherder. Talking to a friend about this wonderful deck before the round. Of course we play each other, him fighting back from 3-2 earlier. In the first game, he missed lethal attacking with a Soulherder and I put a Bloodghast into play on the final turn for lethal. In the next game, he just got too much value and by the time I Ass Trophy the Rest in Peace, he has me on a quick clock. In the final game, we are near time. Luckily for me, I draw my best hand of the tournament, getting double Vengevine, double Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and Hogaak on turn 2. I add another Vengevine the turn after and it's game on turn 2 of turns. 2-1.

Round 10 vs. Jund. Pro Player Logan Nettles, cousin of Reid Duke. So I assume he's on the list that Reid Duke posted on CFB earlier in the week. Nope, he had Tireless Tracker. :o 2-1.

Round 11 vs. Hogaak. 2-1.

Round 12 vs. UW. 1-1-1.

Round 13 vs. Infect. 1-2.

Round 14 vs. Hogaak. 2-0.

Round 15 vs. Grixis Urza. 0-2.

I finish 10-4-1, which got 95th place. It got rough near the end and I was only 3-2 vs. the mirror, while 7-2-1 vs. other decks.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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