UWx Stoneblade

Erian Ignis
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Post by Erian Ignis » 4 years ago

Playing UW without Cryptic Command kinda scares me. It is amazing at any point in the game past turn 4.

So basically you believe that 4 Snaps + 4 SfM is all that is needed as a creature package?

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Bearscape
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Post by Bearscape » 4 years ago

Erian Ignis wrote:
4 years ago
Playing UW without Cryptic Command kinda scares me. It is amazing at any point in the game past turn 4.

So basically you believe that 4 Snaps + 4 SfM is all that is needed as a creature package?
I've found you can go two ways with UWx Stoneblade:
Implementing SFM into UW Control, going towards the UW Stoneblade legacy decks. I'd probably play 4 snap 4 sfm 2 clique as the creature package. Your gameplan is not an aggressive start with SFM, but establishing board control first and then ending the game with equipments later. You rely a lot on hardcasting Batterskull and basically plan on your t2 SFM dying. This type of deck plays Cryptic Command and Jace the Mind Sculptor.

Building around SFM, going lower to the ground and planning to end the game soon. Here you really have to think on how you plan to get that turn 4 hit with a sword in. You should probably have a third color here (although I've seen interesting UW lists with Giver of Runes that REALLY want a good faerie one-drop out of Throne of Eldraine). Your curve should mostly end on 3 and you probably don't play Cryptic Command or Jace the Mind Sculptor.

Erian Ignis
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Post by Erian Ignis » 4 years ago

I think I'm personally more inclined to the first option you mention. That suits my style better, I'll go for it.

Btw, is there any place/resource where I can check how is UW Stoneblade faring right now? Like, a good place to read up tournament reports, etc.?

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Bearscape
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Post by Bearscape » 4 years ago

So how's the UWx Stoneblade brewing going? So far, I have not been very impressed frankly. The version I've seen that seems the most powerful to me is a Bant build using Noble Hierarch and Icefang Coatl, but that's not really my style.

Straight UW has seemed weak and not committed enough to either a controlling or midrange strategy, after trying the creature light more controlling builds I've mostly found that just straight up control without mainboard SFM is better at that (although 2 SFM 1 Batterskull side has been good).

On the Venn diagram of "seems powerful" and "my style", Jeskai Stoneblade has had the most potential, but I'm not satisfied with my builds yet.

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Ym1r
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Post by Ym1r » 4 years ago

Bearscape wrote:
4 years ago
So how's the UWx Stoneblade brewing going? So far, I have not been very impressed frankly. The version I've seen that seems the most powerful to me is a Bant build using Noble Hierarch and Icefang Coatl, but that's not really my style.

Straight UW has seemed weak and not committed enough to either a controlling or midrange strategy, after trying the creature light more controlling builds I've mostly found that just straight up control without mainboard SFM is better at that (although 2 SFM 1 Batterskull side has been good).

On the Venn diagram of "seems powerful" and "my style", Jeskai Stoneblade has had the most potential, but I'm not satisfied with my builds yet.
Yeah it's interesting actually. I have been following several brewers on Twitter and Facebook, and had a ton of discussion, to try to figure out what is what.

Personally, I have only played the UW control build with SFM and, while in the beginning it felt awkward, I have come to realize the play patters, and now it actually feels equally powerful to me with the straight up UW control list, just with some different strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding other color combinations, indeed Bant seems quite powerful but I am not interested in playing that. Esperblade seems, weirdly enough, the weakest by far. There is just not much in the SFM+Liliana package in modern for some reason (I can't explain it personally, my opinion is only results driven, not theory driven). Jeskai in paper seems super strong but which build is better is still unclear, do you need cryptics? do you need Forces? I would argue yes to both, but most results seem to point to the contrary sooo I don't know?
Counter, draw a card.

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Bearscape
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Post by Bearscape » 4 years ago

Ym1r wrote:
4 years ago
Bearscape wrote:
4 years ago
So how's the UWx Stoneblade brewing going? So far, I have not been very impressed frankly. The version I've seen that seems the most powerful to me is a Bant build using Noble Hierarch and Icefang Coatl, but that's not really my style.

Straight UW has seemed weak and not committed enough to either a controlling or midrange strategy, after trying the creature light more controlling builds I've mostly found that just straight up control without mainboard SFM is better at that (although 2 SFM 1 Batterskull side has been good).

On the Venn diagram of "seems powerful" and "my style", Jeskai Stoneblade has had the most potential, but I'm not satisfied with my builds yet.
Yeah it's interesting actually. I have been following several brewers on Twitter and Facebook, and had a ton of discussion, to try to figure out what is what.

Personally, I have only played the UW control build with SFM and, while in the beginning it felt awkward, I have come to realize the play patters, and now it actually feels equally powerful to me with the straight up UW control list, just with some different strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding other color combinations, indeed Bant seems quite powerful but I am not interested in playing that. Esperblade seems, weirdly enough, the weakest by far. There is just not much in the SFM+Liliana package in modern for some reason (I can't explain it personally, my opinion is only results driven, not theory driven). Jeskai in paper seems super strong but which build is better is still unclear, do you need cryptics? do you need Forces? I would argue yes to both, but most results seem to point to the contrary sooo I don't know?
For the Jeskai builds, I would definitely forego cryptic. I think you want to be much more tempo-based and kill opponents quickly with burn backup. As for why esper doesn't work; the tempo loss of discard spells is IMO always much more relevant than people think. If that's followed up by a 4/5 Goyf you regain that tempo very quickly, but if followed up by a Squire that you have to spend 2 more mana on next turn? Youre just going to fall behind much too quickly.



Has anyone tried Gideon of the Trials, by the way? I can't believe I forgot about this card; it was my brewing obsession for the first few months after its release but the synergy with SFM just completely blew over my head. Now THAT is a card I think can make straight UW work; the only hurdle is the steep white requirement.

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Post by VicariousOne » 4 years ago

I have done a lot of testing with various UWx builds and the most powerful one to me seemed straight UW with Spell Quellers so far. One of the keys to success with the UW builds has been identifying the spots where you can fetch up Sword of Feast and Famine. Batterskull is great and all but in the end of the day it's just a beater / blocker which, while very important against some decks, is a lot less powerfull than Sword if you can at least get to connect once. I've fund it to be correct to go for Sword much more often than I initially thought and my perception of SFM's power increased accordingly.

If any of you are interested, I wrote a bit about what I believe the correct way to decide between Skull and Sword is in UW: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ox ... sp=sharing

should any of you find the time to read it, feel free to give some feedback as I am new to writing about mtg

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