[Deck] Vial Goblins

DaVinci
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Post by DaVinci » 4 years ago


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            .-.           (   )                     (   )     (   )  .-.                         
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(   )(   ) (''")  / .-, \  | |     /    \   /    \   | /   \   | |  (''") (   )   \    /  _  \   
 | |  | |   | |  (__) ; |  | |    ;  ,-. ' |  .-. ;  |  .-. |  | |   | |   |  .-. .   . .' `. ;  
 | |  | |   | |    .'`  |  | |    | |  | | | |  | |  | |  | |  | |   | |   | |  | |   | '   | |  
 | |  | |   | |   / .'| |  | |    | |  | | | |  | |  | |  | |  | |   | |   | |  | |   _\_`.(___) 
 | |  | |   | |  | /  | |  | |    | |  | | | |  | |  | |  | |  | |   | |   | |  | |  (   ). '.   
 ' '  ; '   | |  ; |  ; |  | |    | '  | | | '  | |  | '  | |  | |   | |   | |  | |   | |  `\ |  
  \ `' /    | |  ' `-'  |  | |    '  `-' | '  `-' /  ' `-' ;   | |   | |   | |  | |   ; '._,' '  
   '_.'    (___) `.__.'_. (___)    `.__. |  `.__.'    `.__.   (___) (___) (___)(___)   '.___.'   
                                   ( `-' ;                                                       
                                    `.__.                                                        



Introduction
Before the printing of goblin cards in Modern Horizons and Core Set 2020, the most competitive Goblin deck was 8-Whack, but with the printings of Goblin Matron and Goblin Ringleader, the deck has swung into another direction.


Card Choices


CORE CARDS FOR GOBLINS
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Goblins can be a mana hungry deck at times. This card lets the deck to play to the board better and also has the upside of making the goblins almost uncounterable. Having a Vial on three also plays well with Goblin Warchief as being able to Vial in Warchief then use your excess lands to cast more goblins on a discount can put pressure on your opponent in a short time.


Fixing for cards like Munitions Expert and Goblin Chainwhirler with a great upside against control and blue tempo decks. A staple in tribal decks.

















SUPPORTING GOBLINS
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One of the main points of contention for the construction of Goblins. This card along with Goblin Warchief allows the Goblin pilot to run seven to eight cost reducers which enables that player to play out their hand quickly. For more information on Frogtosser Banneret vs. Warren Instigator, see https://mtgtheories.home.blog/2019/06/2 ... t-and-why/


A more aggressive card with a higher ceiling than Frogtosser Banneret that differs the construction of Goblins. When played early, this card can lead to quick combo kills with Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Lightning Crafter, and Skirk Prospector or generate a powerful board presence early. However, some have quoted the necessity to connect, coming down on turn two, the restrictive mana cost, and the majority of creatures in the Modern format that will block it on turn two to three as downsides too great to fully build around it with fast mana, cheap haste enablers, and more removal and instead opt to run Frogtosser Banneret to play a more consistent game. It's generally advised not to run both this card and Frogtosser Banneret in the same deck to not dilute the deck with mediocre two mana 1/1s.



































NON-CREATURE TRIBAL GOBLINS
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SIDEBOARD MATERIAL
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Decklists



For more up to date decklists by nucklepuckk, see https://archidekt.com/user/12688






Other Resources

Last edited by DaVinci 4 years ago, edited 4 times in total.

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

nice primer. My friend is planning to build a gob deck. Can you mention which gobs are the core of the deck, so we know what to get first? we already have a playset of aether vial.

thanks
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maniospas
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Post by maniospas » 4 years ago

@The Fluff
Having tinkered with the archetype for a couple of weeks and seen a lot of lists, I'd say most people would point to a core that also overlaps with legacy lists a lot (where Banneret is essentially a Lackey replacement and Munitions the new removal) :
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:


My main question on the archetype is whether Aether Vial works on average as promised; I've seen a lot of gameplay where vial is on 2 and a 3- or 4- drop is needed but the player has to wait a turn from missing land drops, whereas if the vial was a land they would have curved smoothly. What I'm trying to say is that it's not like humans where everything costs 1 or 2 mana; costs are diversified and large enough for vial to need some time to reach them.
My modern deckbuilding philosophy
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Be consistent with important effects (e.g. if your cards do nothing without an effect, there had better be at least 8 copies of it + ways to dig).
One-ofs are allowed only if tutorable or useful in matchups that go long.
Lower the curve as much as possible.
All cards should promote the primary gameplan.
Synergistic cards should be individually powerful (at worst by synergizing powerfully with a good portion of the deck).

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Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

ok, noted. I appreciate the reply.

well, I'm not a gobs player so might be wrong on this.. I see at least five or more high cmc creatures on the lists. I feel those might get stuck on hand if vial is not drawn? 22 land deck don't always get 4 mana on turn 4.
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MarcWizard
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Post by MarcWizard » 4 years ago

It seems counter-intuitive to run both vials, which has the purpose of accelerating, and cost reducers, which does something a vial deck doesn't exactly need. Wouldn't it be better to run either-or? The reducer style can run more gobbos in place of the artifacts to maximize the reduction and drop the feelbads from top-decking vials, while the vial deck can focus on utility and lord gobbos and cheat them out with the vials.

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Post by Mapccu » 4 years ago

Figured I'd post my gobbo deck here in case anyone wanted to take it for a whirl - it's relatively cheap. I haven't had many reps outside of goldfishing, but the deck is super fun. It's a variant of "dirty kitty" from extended.

The old dirty kitty decks used the storm mechanic and empty the warrens and fecundity to fuel/dig. I've replaced fecundity with Gate to give me some lifegain, some dig, and the discard helps power out hollow ones. You can get gate out t2 off a prospector -> war marshall, t3 you can start swinging 4/4 zombies sideways.

Cards I've considered are:
knucklebone witch or foundry street denizen for beefier beats.
legion loyalist is a heck of a card to trigger battalion with. It makes warren instigator into a silly magic card.
stingscourger is great to bounce a blocker, you can choose not to pay the echo cost - reanimate and get a 2nd bounce.
goblin trashmaster for artifact decks, especially bridge
goblin ringleader for more card advantage
goblin chieftain because it's just all around a solid card, especially if you board out the gate package
pashalik mons protects you from board wipes and lets you continue some pressure. The deck is great getting someone to 10. Between the fanatical firebrand/mogg fanatic/goblin grenade, it doesn't take much more in terms of reach to get them to 0.
krenko, mob boss is great alongside chieftain

All in all the deck is explosive and fun. You can drop a few early hollow ones from time to time, but wraith/looting can really help jumpstart the creature count needed to get a gift out in play early. The fanatic/firebrand/prospector/grenade and echo on war marshall give you lots of control over the gate triggers.

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Post by maniospas » 4 years ago

I don't think that cutting the new gobos that made the archetype viable to introduce other inconsistent pieces (e.g. 4 discard outlets don't enable Hollow One well enough and Looting is card disadvantage) is worth it, [mention]Mapccu[/mention]. Also, I cannot see any line with Gate+Skirk in play that wins the game or creates any kind of card advantage.
My modern deckbuilding philosophy
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Be consistent with important effects (e.g. if your cards do nothing without an effect, there had better be at least 8 copies of it + ways to dig).
One-ofs are allowed only if tutorable or useful in matchups that go long.
Lower the curve as much as possible.
All cards should promote the primary gameplan.
Synergistic cards should be individually powerful (at worst by synergizing powerfully with a good portion of the deck).

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Post by ascribe » 4 years ago

So with mtgsalvation.com in limbo, I decided to move my discussion over here. This is my initial post in the modern Goblins forum.

My first iteration of this deck is to max out on the sac effects, refueling with Ringleader and cutting costs with Frogtosser Banneret and Goblin Warchief. Something like this:
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

This configuration only leaves three slots. The obvious glut is at 3cc and [card]Pashalik Mons[/
    card] is legendary, so I think it would be good to trim that by one. I also think we could trim a Warchief or two. That leaves 4-6 slots to play with. Here are the other cards I would like to get in:

    I feel like we need to have a good curve, so I would like to be at 10-12 one drops. To start, I would add some Knucklebone Witches to fit the theme of expendable goblins.

    We definitely need at least three Munitions Experts. To make room for these, I think we should trim two Goblin Warchief.

    So here is where I plan to start:
    Decklist

    Spells

    Obelisk of Urd

    Leyline of the Void

    Tarfire

    Goblin King

    Abrade

    Shenanigans

    Warren Weirding

    Thoughtseize

    Sideboard Potential

    Approximate Total Cost:

    Admittedly, this deck would be very weak to Plague Engineer, but that would be post board and such is the life of goblins.

    I left out cute one-ofs like Siege-Gang Commander, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to lower the CMC, though I could be convinced of adding a Krenko as a follow up to Sling-Gang Lieutenant to just win the game.

    I may be going too hot and heavy on the passive damage given by Sling-Gang Lieutenant and it may be correct to trim one, but I want to try the full set.

    Sideboard-wise, I think all of these are reasonable inclusions:
    Are there any easier ways to buff our goblins as a hedge against sweepers such as Anger of the Gods or Plague Engineer? Is anyone running a build focused on the life drain from Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang Lieutenant?

    I plan to get back to my regularly scheduled FNMs once my kids' summer baseball is over and will have concrete playtesting at that point.

    Fire, aim, ready goblin players!

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    Post by maniospas » 4 years ago

    I think 4x Mons is overkill, as for some matchups the effect is not very powerful.

    For sac effects, I've found that building with Unearth creates some really nice synergies. Otherwise, 7 mana and two cards for 6 damage is not very efficient in my opinion - not even mentioning removal.

    I present my current preferred build (someone told me at Salvation that 35 gobos are needed for Ringleader and they're probably correct, but I'm fine with missing some value for being able to combo off), because I think it's the best way to maximize Skirk+Mons to the face for lethal as one of the win conditions.
    My modern deckbuilding philosophy
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    Be consistent with important effects (e.g. if your cards do nothing without an effect, there had better be at least 8 copies of it + ways to dig).
    One-ofs are allowed only if tutorable or useful in matchups that go long.
    Lower the curve as much as possible.
    All cards should promote the primary gameplan.
    Synergistic cards should be individually powerful (at worst by synergizing powerfully with a good portion of the deck).

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    CavalryWolfPack
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    Post by CavalryWolfPack » 4 years ago

    It's been really interesting to see what people have come up with. I've been messing with Goblins a lot recently, and I love them. I'll post my list after some more testing.

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    The Fluff
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    Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

    This is the deck that I plan to buy the pieces next month. Still adjusting some things. :)
    Decklist
    Approximate Total Cost:

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    Bearscape
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    Post by Bearscape » 4 years ago

    When building Modern Goblins, I think it is required to at least be aware of Jim Davis is suggesting. He's an expert on Legacy Goblins and has good takes on what direction Modern Goblins should go into.

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    The Fluff
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    Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

    that was a good read. thanks for the link. :)

    I did not even know icon of ancestry existed before reading it. Looks like a good side card against removal heavy decks.
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    Post by Yawgmoth » 4 years ago

    ascribe wrote:
    4 years ago
    Is anyone running a build focused on the life drain from Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang Lieutenant?
    Yes. I'll post a list shortly. Essentially it tries to abuse the persist goblins (putrid goblin & murderous redcap) to get lots of mana from prospector and multiple triggers from Mons (or Sling-gang). Meanwhile, every sac pumps up knucklebone witch. Using metallic mimic it is possible to get infinite mana and deal infinite damage. Between Matron, Ring Leader, and goblin engineer all of the pieces are easy to search for.

    However, it is not necessary to assemble the combo in order to win with this approach. Sacrificing putrid goblin to prospector with Mons out gives you 2 damage and floats 2 red mana. Redcap does 6 damage and floats 2 red mana. With the floating mana you can drop in more goblins to keep the mana/damage pump going. If you ramp into a siege-gang lieutenant or krenko, mob boss you can end things pretty quickly.

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    Post by The Fluff » 4 years ago

    Got most of my cards from the mail yesterday. And I'm a believer now.. Goblin Piledriver is indeed important to the deck. Deals a lot of damage when unblocked, and demands removal from the opponent. He's often big enough to trade with an eldrazi / goyf.
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    Post by Yawgmoth » 4 years ago

    Made a few changes with the release of Grumgully the Generous. Grumgully replaces Metallic Mimic and the Goblin Engineer. This frees up space and allows me to assemble the persist combo faster and more consistently. I find that cutting out too much of the core goblins in support of the combo is not a good idea as just playing a solid goblin deck can win games when th combo doesn't happen. goblin piledriver is an all star.


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    Post by Yawgmoth » 4 years ago


    Have play tested quite a bit. With Grumgully being fetchable by Matron and a hit off of Recruiter it is very easy to assemble an infinite win combo using a persist creature and a sac outlet (Sling-Gang or Prospector). Because of how easy this is I have trimmed down all but one copy of each combo piece. This allows you to play a more classic goblins deck with the combo as icing on the cake.

    Some notes:

    Keep the Aether Vial set at 3.

    Once Upon a Time is a great addition to the deck and more than justifies the addition of Green into the deck.

    The sideboard Piledrivers and extra Mogg War Marshal allow you to switch out the combo pieces and go for straight gobos. I love Piledriver and if I need to switch to a more aggro strategy I have the option (particularly against Eldrazi as The Fluff noted above).

    The tutor pieces combined with Munitions Expert and Cratermaker makes this deck surprisingly controlly. The sideboard Alpine Moons, Ghost Quarters, and Bridge let you go full control if needed.

    ***note: I am using Unclaimed Territory for cost saving reasons only, I assume Cavern of Souls would be better.

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    Post by Yawgmoth » 4 years ago

    After play testing and some local events I've made a few changes which has made the deck a lot more consistent and flexible.

    Note: My local meta includes lots of Jund and I primarily play test against Whirza and ETron.

    A couple of comments on the changes.

    Creatures: Assembling the combo is powerful but vulnerable to bolt/push/dismember so a second Grumgully and Redcap is great for redundancy. Redcap can also be good for pinging creatures/planeswalkers with the ETB ability and a sac outlet. 4x Prospector & 4x Warchief is the right number, not 3 or 2. The ability to ramp Mogg War Marshal into 3 mana with prospector is very useful for ramping early.

    Trashmaster mainboard replaces Siegegang commander. It buffs the whole team in a large body. Even without the artifact destruction he's great.

    I ditched the Once Upon A Times. They were not worth the late game bummers and Wooded Foothills. Having the green mana to hard cast this card outweighs the early turn filtering. I'd rather just have another land or creature in my hand than OUaT. By ditching the Wooded Foothills I'm taking way less damage from my lands which matters (3ish damage/game on average).

    I know I have 61 cards, I'm testing out Knucklebone Witch, not sure if it will stay but it plays nicely with all of the sacrificing.

    The sideboard is only half tested. My worst matchup is Jund. They do what we do better. They outgrind us with creatures. The Thoughtseizes, Relic, and Warren Weirding are for Classic Jund/Jund DS. Brutality is for Burn. Zo-Zu is for amulet. I'd like to drop the chainwhirler for a second Weirding but I'm not sure.

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    Post by The Fluff » 3 years ago

    new goblin from core 2021 looks usable maybe as a single in our deck?
    EaJlhKHX0AMUMHS.png
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    Post by Bearscape » 3 years ago

    Sadly I sold all my vial deck materials, but that is a 4-of. Insane value.

    It also has some really neat combos if you have either Krenko or kiki-jiki on top of your deck

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    Post by The Fluff » 3 years ago

    agreed, now that I think about it again. Actually feels like it could be a 4-of.

    reminds me of other mtg cards that allow top of library to be played, but this guy is more effective because costs only 2 mana. And of course, in a gob deck.. more than half the deck are goblin spells.
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