Brewing Liliana (Origins), Help Needed

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

So I had fun brewing Chandra tribal, and eventually settled down to a list and an idea of what it might need when I finally test it. I've gotten most of the way to the same place with Liliana, Heretical Healer theory-brews, but just can't get down to a 100 card list without feeling like I've left out something major. I'm trying to balance enough flavor while packing some power in the deck. After my latest search, gather, and prune, I'm still at 122 cards. I need some help focusing the deck that last little bit and deciding what themes / mechanics / strategies to keep in. Maybe some cards are just bad, maybe I have too many redundant effects of ___, etc. Big Mana , Zombie swarm, couple of demons, death dealing and necromancy, maybe a bit of self mill and a minor lands package are what I have going on with this list.

I'd like to get down to an actual list before I start acquiring the cards in earnest. But I've been fiddling with this for a solid few weeks now. Forgive me for any actual terrible cards or ideas, I'm rusty with the game.

(Mods, if this belongs in the decklist section, my bad. I'm trying to get to an actual decklist and not just a big pile of flavor and themes, is my thinking)
Planeswalker base
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Naturally The Chain Veil is in the deck as well.

If I was going to drop any versions, it would be Death Wielder for just being overpriced removal and then the M19 versions (Untouched and Necromancer) since I'm not sure if the self-mill strategy should stay or go. Since it's a good spread from 3 to 6 or 7 mana, I've tried to keep the rest of the list somewhat lower in CMC and curve.
Creatures
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Lords - chosen for combat effectiveness, sheer stat boosts, and/or utility. I've got a few sac fodder and outlet / recursive dudes, some token producers, and some general power and value dudes. I like this selection, and the only ones I'm iffy about right now are Embodiment and Bontu. Demon is cheap, Unearthable, looks good in combat and should be able to come in decently beefy most of the time. Unsure if I need more self-mill for him. Bontu is hella flavorful, and the draw power seems powerful. My thinking is that I would sac some lands and some non-token dudes most of the time. I want to include Crucible and a couple other things for a lands package so Bontu would kind of tie into that as well.

I also pulled a Gruesome Menagerie on Friday, so there's a creature package there as well. It gets most of the lords, the cheap dudes, even Lili HH, Embodiment, Colossus, and mini Pox crafter dude.
Lands package stuff
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Lands and stuff
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A few of the Lili's do have discard, so the only other discard I think I would include would be Raven's Crime due to repeatableness and cost effectiveness. Syphon because we mages burn through our life totals rather quickly, Proliferate to help the Planeswalkers and help control the board, and of course Crucible to keep the flow of mana and shenanigans going. I'm probably going to add Lotus Field to all my mono-color decks, honestly, and for Lili I'm thinking about Field of the Dead too. I understand it's harder to turn on Field in mono, but I am aware of it potentially being busted and am considering it.
Removal
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Removal
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These were generally selected for cost effectiveness, hitting multiple things, or hitting "everything" (any creature, all creatures -2/-2, etc is what I mean). Price is flavorful but I understand might not be worth it, Consume Spirit is more on point flavorwise than Exsanguinate (which is a bit boring, too. Efficient, but boring), and I have a minor love affair with Spoiling. EDIT: Infest should be Toxic Deluge, huh. It can be the placeholder for it, at least.
Necromancy
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Reanimation and tokens
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Cheap, efficient options here. My gut reaction is to go with Army as an instant swarm since it's consistent and even flashback-able. Should it be one of the other X spell ones, so it can scale for any point of the game? Several Lili's have these kind of effects, so perhaps this section could be trimmed down a few cards. Discovery might not be necessary since I want to have the land package which would be able to get those things back anyway.
Halfway there, you got this. Beast mode through it!
Enchantments
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Here's where a few cuts might definitely happen. I've always loved the idea of the Legacy Dredge deck, hence Bridge and Leyline. I'm thinking I don't have enough self-mill for that though (Save it for Sidisi, probably?). Oath is probably bad, but that's not gonna stop me from trying to keep them in decks in general :P (the flavor!). I'm not sure about Necro in this deck. Yes, you read that right, but give me a moment to explain my thinking. I envision discarding my own stuff to reanimate later, that whole schtick. Am I overthinking the conflicting strategies there? Am I just bad at the game, lol? Lastly, I'm questioning Ranks here since Eldritch Moon Lili has a better version of it as her ultimate (not always gonna get up to it, etc, I know).
Draw, Tutors
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Card Advantage
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Pact doubles as draw for me and potentially a kill con as well. I'd be down for splurging on Will for this deck. Final Parting as a mini Gifts Ungiven, fetching combos like Crucible and Buried Ruin.
Ramp and Rituals
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Mana!
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Pretty self-explanatory, I feel. T1 Lili's or dudes, or T2 of the same kinda stuff is always fun.
Lands
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Classic Urborg-CoffersHold, with mana boosts, recovery, grave hate, tokens, and fetching. As I mentioned earlier, I'm aware of Field of the Dead potentially being nuts but that it's harder to turn on in mono-color. Maybe it works out, maybe not. Basic count is probably off, I'm thinking 38 total lands for the deck, so whatever actual number of basics would be equally split between Snow and not if I keep in Field.
So that's where I'm at in this journey of Brewing Flip Lili. Mainly looking for cuts, open to suggestions as well. Thank you for your time and advice.
More Decks
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- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -

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Vessiliana
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Post by Vessiliana » 4 years ago

Though I do not currently have my Lili deck put together, I have built (and disassembled and rebuilt) an Origins Lili deck several times.

The first difficulty I found in building a Lili deck is that the zombie Lilis don't play well with the other Lilis. If you want a zombie deck, then I found the best thing to do was keep only the Lilis that cared about zombies.

If you want a Lili focus, then I'd cut the couple of Lilis (especially Liliana, Untouched by Death) and all the rest of the zombie theme. The Lili focus plays well with a demon focus, and my most successful Lili-centric build had several demons in it. And Liliana, Death Wielder never did anything good for me either.

Also, just as an aside, your Lands package seems to me not to be all that helpful, so those would be some easy cuts.

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

Vessiliana wrote:
4 years ago
Though I do not currently have my Lili deck put together, I have built (and disassembled and rebuilt) an Origins Lili deck several times.

The first difficulty I found in building a Lili deck is that the zombie Lilis don't play well with the other Lilis. If you want a zombie deck, then I found the best thing to do was keep only the Lilis that cared about zombies.

If you want a Lili focus, then I'd cut the couple of Lilis (especially Liliana, Untouched by Death) and all the rest of the zombie theme. The Lili focus plays well with a demon focus, and my most successful Lili-centric build had several demons in it. And Liliana, Death Wielder never did anything good for me either.

Also, just as an aside, your Lands package seems to me not to be all that helpful, so those would be some easy cuts.
I want a Lili focus for the deck, so it should be a demon focus then. So I'll rework the deck in line with this advice. Thank you [mention]Vessiliana[/mention] :)
More Decks
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- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 4 years ago

Price of Betrayal and Smallpox seem a little low impact.

Maybe get a Black Sun's Zenith in for Infest until you get a Toxic Deluge. Killing Wave could also become a more efficient board wipe like Damnation or Life's Finale.

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Skello496
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Post by Skello496 » 4 years ago

I might cut the planeswalker deck lili at the bottom of your list. I think it's too much mana for her.
EDH:
Krenko, Goblin Stampeder
Nylea, God of Hydra Counters G
Mahadi, Emporium Master rb
Feather, Catrips Redeemed wr
Ghired, The Tokened gwr
Hakbal, Merfolk Massacre UG
Ten and Clara, Suspended uwr

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 4 years ago

[mention]Skello496[/mention] Death Wielder? Already cut.

Generally speaking: Like I said in the OP, had been working on this for a good couple weeks or so. Promotion at work, tiredness from that, and from working on this from before means little to no progress.
More Decks
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Hide
- Lyra - Naru Meha - Chandra - Lovisa - Nissa -
- Lavinia X - Yuriko - Jhoira - Saheeli - Glissa - Lathril - Meren - Koma -
- Anafenza - Alela - Sen Triplets - Inalla - Sidisi -
- Breya -

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Skello496
Posts: 95
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Skello496 » 4 years ago

Whoops. Sorry about that, I missed that post.
Also, personally I would remove Consume Spirit
Sure, it gains you life and can kill an opponent, but if you ever have the mana to kill someone with it, it would be so much better to just run Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire instead. As is, I think Consume Spirit would end up being an overcosted creature removal with inconsequential lifegain attached, and I would rather have actual removal like Doom Blade.
EDH:
Krenko, Goblin Stampeder
Nylea, God of Hydra Counters G
Mahadi, Emporium Master rb
Feather, Catrips Redeemed wr
Ghired, The Tokened gwr
Hakbal, Merfolk Massacre UG
Ten and Clara, Suspended uwr

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