Rule Change Ideas - SCG article

[Yatsufusa]

It's always great to see articles where you go on the thought exercise routes, it does display the directions you think regarding the subject matter, which makes for a good comparison with the constant discussions and opinions on said subjects in forums and other social media outlets. Of course, this is only possible with an understanding that it is ultimately just a thought exercise and that the RC still largely stands by not shaking the format unnecessarily and/or too frequently. Unfortunately, some people will always misread (by intention or not) and attempt to twist the facts, but I hope it doesn't become overwhelming to the point it ends up with articles like these being shelved instead.

All that being said, I would think if the RC does consider any changes of such caliber, perhaps you all can have "trial run periods" with the CAG for feedback from their groups as well. Sure, it carries basically a need for an announcement (I don't think it's possible to conduct such runs in total secrecy since it concerns way more playgroups so in a way the likelihood of "leaks into rumors" is very real) and a statement that it is a test ultimately for the purposes of better data collection/feedback. I know I'm getting ahead of myself on a thought experiment article, but I wanted to get this out just in case if even one idea looks feasible enough for testing on a larger scale does manifest.

Now, I'll get to my general thoughts on each case presented:

1) Unified Commander Damage
Like you said, this is probably the one that needs a lot of testing to get the numbers right. I did immediately toy with the idea "how about each player needs to hit once"... but I remembered Planeswalker Commanders were a thing so it got thrown out in a less than a minute. I do think it does need to scale with the number of players involved though (regardless of how well their Commanders can deal with it, or not at all) - individual Commander Damage is a handful to keep track (and sort of a waste of energy to do so when only 1 matters in the end), but on a functional level, that trouble scaled with more players, so a unified system must also scale up - which brings about the problem of whether it would be pointless once it exceeds the life total (especially if a 30-life system is also in place).

2) Start with Monarch
I'll be blunt, Commander starting with Monarch feels like a variant (probably also because it is drenched in flavor by itself, and it isn't exactly aligned to EDH's general flavor even if they can be close). Mechanically I can see the benefits though. At the same time, as reundant and wordy as it would be, I wonder if it's possible to include a rule that if a Monarch stays an entire turn cycle with the same player, it returns to the "neutral point" and waits for the next "first blood" to follow again, so "impregnable defense strategies" don't just get to profit off it, at least, not without having to maintain an offensive presence as well.

3) 30 Life
Actually I don't think there's a need to decrease life totals, despite the general advantages it would bring to aggressive decks (that are traditionally weaker) and handicapping life-as-a-resource lack-of-worries, because it is also an enabler for Timmy strategies I know many love the format for (and I selfishly refuse to sacrifice). Again, with the wordiness, but what if we had a "sacrifice meter" for each player - let's say a 20 life (so 1 D20/Spindown will suffice) - what if we were handicapped to only be able to pay life from that meter (of course it will still also take from the overall life total, the same way Commander Damage does deal normal combat damage as well)? We could even throw in that lifegain does restore the meter, but it still caps at 20 no matter what (so infinite lifegain doesn't circumvent the system). Sure, it's not entirely foolproof - if you had a way to just turn on/off lifegain and life payment it's business as usual, but at the very least that requires set-ups to achieve rather than just slapping Necropotence and calling it a day. It can be argued that's a lot of tracking to do, but I'd say the incentive to keep track of your own availability to pay life is a whole lot more compelling than to keep track of other people's Commander damage comparatively (plus I hard-capped it to 1 D20).

4) Off-Color Fetches
Well, if you ask me, this is like sort of the Old Rule-4 all over again - never liked why you couldn't produce off-identity colored mana when the deckbuilding restrictions were pretty solid enough (and especially when "you can spend mana as though it as of any color" was basically cards skirting around the whole thing), but ironically, from the opposite aspect, since Rule 4 was restrictive and this is "free" due to the logistics needed to reinforce it being not worth it. I guess since fetches are the biggest culprit, the "simplest" route is to precisely nail them by quoting search mechanics with land types as a restriction, but like you, I don't think it's worth the trouble (even my wordier 20-life sacrifice restriction would be a more practical addition to the format, I personally think...)

5) Mitgating Going Last
Oh boy. How do I propose this: How about at the end of the last player's turn in a cycle... everyone rolls again to determine the order for the next cycle? Utter insanity, chaos and trouble I know, but as you stated there is no elegant solution so it suddenly felt to me as though the most chaotic one is actually the most elegant one (didn't help you featured a Planechase card and games with those always end up chaotic in five directions).

6) Allowing Un-Cards
No. Just no. I didn't even like the time they were temporarily allowed, because all I saw was everyone agreeing to keep status quo (especially since it was temporary to begin with), so all that period achieved was make the majority of playgroups in my area (if not all, but it was all from what I personally experienced) looked like we were all playing with house-rules instead. Also, it's an insane amount of work and words to establish an official list of permitted Un-Cards. If the RC wanted to do a long list of cards, I'd rather that list be simply "here's the Reserved List - they're all banned due to them transcending an unused perceived barrier of entry criteria to evoke it again". Un-Cards should remain a prime example of "banned cards only permitted to enter the format via House-Rules" and not built into the status quo, no matter how tempting some of the fairer ones look.

[ilovesaprolings]

I have "tested" some of these with my playgroup
Starting monarch: it's really good and spice up early games
mitigation going last: time distortion is a terrible card, it felt lke a troll move that accomplished nothing when it was played in some planar deck. We give the last player monarch to help him.

[pokken]

A problem with the last player having monarch is that it gives them a discard outlet. Play land, draw for monarch, discard to hand size. Oof.

[Maluko]

I've always been a defender of a starting life total of 30. It would personally solve a lot of issues I keep running into when playing Commander. With a starting life total of 30:
1) Combo decks have less time to prepare themselves and find their combo. Sometimes that extra 10 life really makes a difference in weather you can eliminate a player before he combos off.
2) Aggro decks become more viable. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I think decks should invest in early game defence. This is one of the reasons why blue is such a strong color in the format, and red and white are the weaker colors. With a starting life total of 40, there's little incentive in investing in the early game; it's better to go for big, controlling spells that give you an advantage over other players in the long game. I think reducing the starting life total would balance the deck archetypes and colors a little more.

I don't have evidence to back this up, maybe other people who have been testing a starting life total of 30 can confirm my hypothesis, but for the people who argue that games would become shorter with this change, I hardly think this is the case. Decks and metagames would simply adjust, like they always do, to deal with faster starts, and games would end up balancing out, keeping the average game length more or less the same. And if I'm proven wrong, well, is shuffling up and starting a new game such an impractical thing to do?

As for the Monarch idea, I was not aware of it, but it does seem like a neat thing to try. I would love to read some stories of playgroups which have been testing it

[Dunharrow]

Maro's blog today reminded me how much I want Hybrid mana to work the same in Commander as in other formats. Dominus of Fealty should be okay for a red deck.
Color identity is a Vorthos-driven rule that makes for cool deckbuilding limitations.
But not allowing hybrid cards is weirdly unintuitive.

He said that Mel should make the rules and Vorthos should do the creative part of the game. And that's just it - good gameplay should trump flavour.

Anyway, I think that changing the rules on hybrid would have been an interesting discussion point. I think it has a lot of merit and it is worth evaluating the challenges that would be posed by changing that rule.

[Hermes_]

I made a post about doing the Monarch one in my local groups FB page...so we may give it a try next week and then i'll report back.

[ilovesaprolings]

Maro's blog today reminded me how much I want Hybrid mana to work the same in Commander as in other formats. Dominus of Fealty should be okay for a red deck.
Color identity is a Vorthos-driven rule that makes for cool deckbuilding limitations.
But not allowing hybrid cards is weirdly unintuitive.

He said that Mel should make the rules and Vorthos should do the creative part of the game. And that's just it - good gameplay should trump flavour.

Anyway, I think that changing the rules on hybrid would have been an interesting discussion point. I think it has a lot of merit and it is worth evaluating the challenges that would be posed by changing that rule.

Yeah i'd rather not have beseech the queen or phyrexian metamorph in every deck thank you

[vandertroll]

Very well written article with lots of reasonable points. The only thing that I wouldn't like to change is the starting life total. I think that 40 life is the sweet spot between, using life as a resource - or using life as combat strategy (allowing yourself to take hits in order to improve or alter board states) and making the commander games as long as they were meant to be. Having long and epic games of magic was commander's initial selling point.

[Dunharrow]

Maro's blog today reminded me how much I want Hybrid mana to work the same in Commander as in other formats. Dominus of Fealty should be okay for a red deck.
Color identity is a Vorthos-driven rule that makes for cool deckbuilding limitations.
But not allowing hybrid cards is weirdly unintuitive.

He said that Mel should make the rules and Vorthos should do the creative part of the game. And that's just it - good gameplay should trump flavour.

Anyway, I think that changing the rules on hybrid would have been an interesting discussion point. I think it has a lot of merit and it is worth evaluating the challenges that would be posed by changing that rule.

Yeah i'd rather not have beseech the queen or phyrexian metamorph in every deck thank you

Why? Is 6 mana beseech the queen a problem?
Is metamorph a problem?

In any case, I did not mention phyrexian mana or 2-brid, but I think both warrant a discussion. Those cards were costed to be fair in any deck, and while phyrexian mana is less of a downside in EDH I think there are few cards that would be considered powerful.

I think the biggest issue would be birthing pod... but it can be banned if it means improving monocolour decks and making commander line up better with the rest of magic in terms of what cards can be played in what colour decks.

[bobthefunny]

Why? Is 6 mana beseech the queen a problem?
Is metamorph a problem?

In any case, I did not mention phyrexian mana or 2-brid, but I think both warrant a discussion. Those cards were costed to be fair in any deck, and while phyrexian mana is less of a downside in EDH I think there are few cards that would be considered powerful.

I think the biggest issue would be birthing pod... but it can be banned if it means improving monocolour decks and making commander line up better with the rest of magic in terms of what cards can be played in what colour decks.

With removing of the color generation rule, it is not hard for a mono color deck to create bbb between the ANY color lands/rocks.

Beseech is clearly a black card, not a colorless one.

[pokken]

Hybrid mana is a distinct thing from the colorless hybrid and phyrexian mana.

thopter Foundry is recognizable as an UW and UB spell distinctly. Similar with most of the effects.

I do think they got this specific one wrong and would like to see it changed. The game is already drifting hard toward 4c decks - I see almost no reason not to make 1-3c decks a bit more flexible at minimal cost.

[Legend]

[mention]Sheldon[/mention] Great article. I wish I was as articulate as you.

Unified Commander Damage: No, unfortunately, because of how similar it would feel to poison.

Monarch: No because it would warp Commander into an entirely different format. Let Rule 0 handle Commander variants.

30 Life: No because it would warp Commander into an entirely different format. 40 Life is part of the Commander Trinity for a reason, along with Color Identity and 100 Cards. Let Rule 0 handle alternate life totals.

Fetches: No because the last thing Commander needs is Rule 14.

Going Last: No because scry scales exponentially. The way to mitigate the disadvantage of going last sometimes is to not go last other times.

Uncards: Yes because they would be a net positive to the format. Just ban cards that use fractions, dexterity, reflexes, gender, etc.

Wishes: Yes because they would bring balance to the format. Just revise Rule 13 to make them work according to the rules of Magic and the spirit of Commander.

[Dunharrow]

Wishes: Yes because they would bring balance to the format. Just revise Rule 13 to make them work according to the rules of Magic and the spirit of Commander.

Balance to the format?
You mean kill all graveyard decks, cascade, storm, commanders with activated abilities, artifact decks, blue decks, multicolour decks, ... and on and on and on.
Wishes push people to including narrow hate cards because there is no downside. In any given game, drawing Rest in Peace can be bad, but if you put all the hate cards in your sideboard when you wish you will always have a narrow effect that knocks someone out of the game.
Every commander deck would also be able to run Karn, the Great Creator and Mycosynth lattice. It would be wrong not to.

People talk of wishes remembering a time when they searched their binder for a card and picked a cool timmy card they wish could fit in the deck.
But the truth is that wishes push people towards not including answers in their decks and gets them to search up hate cards and lockout pieces.
It makes the format spikier.
Everyone would have to get wishes because of how powerful they would be.

[onering]

Monarch sounds like a great way to improve aggro without only benefiting aggro (and by extension throws Boros a bit of a bone). I think mitigating going last is best achieved by lowering the utility of going first, specifically by not having the first player draw for their turn. That way the player going last isn't in the objectively worst position, as they are at least drawing an extra card compared to the person who goes first (and this also helps every other player as well, and further mitigates the advantage the first player has from getting first crack at the monarch).

[Hermes_]

Monarch: No because it would warp Commander into an entirely different format. Let Rule 0 handle Commander variants.

Wishes: Yes because they would bring balance to the format. Just revise Rule 13 to make them work according to the rules of Magic and the spirit of Commander.

:laugh:

[HoffOccultist]

At our games today, a friend of mine mentioned they had played some games with the Monarch rule suggested in the article, and thought it didn't add or take away a ton from the game. But he had a idea that if the last player in turn order became the monarch on the start of their turn, it might help make up for some of the problems with going last, which I thought was interesting to consider.

[pokken]

At our games today, a friend of mine mentioned they had played some games with the Monarch rule suggested in the article, and thought it didn't add or take away a ton from the game. But he had a idea that if the last player in turn order became the monarch on the start of their turn, it might help make up for some of the problems with going last, which I thought was interesting to consider.

As noted above this would give that player a t1 discard outlet which is very awkward.

[ilovesaprolings]

why? Is 6 mana beseech the queen a problem?
Is metamorph a problem?

Yes. I don't want monogreen to clone or monowhite to tutor or any other homogenization of the decklists

[Dunharrow]

why? Is 6 mana beseech the queen a problem?
Is metamorph a problem?

Yes. I don't want monogreen to clone or monowhite to tutor or any other homogenization of the decklists

But Clone effects are already available to green. Never mind Bramble Sovereign and populate spells, Helm of the Host and other similar colorless cards allow all colors to clone. You are also saying this as if every blue deck plays Metamorph.

Every color gets to tutor. Beseech the queen would be kinda weak for 6 mana... and there are other tutors already like Planar Portal and Ring of Three Wishes anyway.

That being said, I was specifically talking about hybrid. Not two-brid or phyrexian mana. I think they all deserve discussions.
Are you concerned about Brutal Hordchief being allowed into more decks? According to EDHRec, it is the most played creature other than Death-rite Shaman (which has to be a golgari card due to activated abilities) to have Hybrid symbols on it.
Are you worried about Sundering Growth in monocolor decks? Wurm Harvest? Privileged Position?

I really do not think there are problematic hybrid cards.

[ilovesaprolings]

But Clone effects are already available to green. Never mind Bramble Sovereign and populate spells, Helm of the Host and other similar colorless cards allow all colors to clone. You are also saying this as if every blue deck plays Metamorph.

Green can't clone opponents artifacts and creatures, white can't tutor for instant and sorceries
If we want to broad color pie then also print a green exile creature instant please.

Regarding hybrid VS phyrexian and similar, how can a rule permit hybrids but stop phyrexian mana? If we change the way color identity is defined, then phyrexian will be changed too.

[Maluko]

I agree with the users above me. If spells outside a deck's color identity would be allowed, then decks (and, consequently, games) would lose their identity and uniqueness. The format needs more restrictions, not less.

I find it interesting that people often bring hybrid mana to this discussion… but what about flip cards? Like, can I play Beck // Call in an Azorius deck? Should I be able to cast both if possible or can I only cast one of the halves? The mana production restriction no longer exists in Commander, so nothing could theoretically prevent you from casting Beck in an Azorius deck if you can somehow produce green mana. But then you would be violating the color pie restrictions of your deck. You could, of course, write a rule to specifically prevent players from doing that… but then you are already in "corner-case rules" territory. And for that, there's already rule 0.

[Dunharrow]

But Clone effects are already available to green. Never mind Bramble Sovereign and populate spells, Helm of the Host and other similar colorless cards allow all colors to clone. You are also saying this as if every blue deck plays Metamorph.

Green can't clone opponents artifacts and creatures, white can't tutor for instant and sorceries
If we want to broad color pie then also print a green exile creature instant please.

Regarding hybrid VS phyrexian and similar, how can a rule permit hybrids but stop phyrexian mana? If we change the way color identity is defined, then phyrexian will be changed too.

But isn't it the case that these cards were mistakes in the first place? If only blue gets to clone opponents' creatures, then Metamorph was a color pie break.

Do you think we should ban Hornet Queen? It is also a color pie break.

Look, I am not saying it is perfect, but pointing to specific cards and saying that those cards are problematic is not a good way to approach the whole thing. Those cards were mistakes when they printed them.

[ilovesaprolings]

But isn't it the case that these cards were mistakes in the first place? If only blue gets to clone opponents' creatures, then Metamorph was a color pie break.

Do you think we should ban Hornet Queen? It is also a color pie break.

Look, I am not saying it is perfect, but pointing to specific cards and saying that those cards are problematic is not a good way to approach the whole thing. Those cards were mistakes when they printed them.

So we should spread the mistakes? EDH found a way to keep them at bay. I don't understand why we should broad it.
Because we should listen to maro? I don't like to hate on him, but he doesn't play the format while the RC has done it for 10+ years, so i'll trust them i guess.
Mel shouldn't trump Vorthos in a Vorthos format. The good gameplay that will come for allowing hybrids is really questionable.
Also because i haven't yet hear a rule variations that allows hybrids without allowing phyrexian mana, off color cards in reanimator decks and things like that.

[pokken]

Also because i haven't yet hear a rule variations that allows hybrids without allowing phyrexian mana, off color cards in reanimator decks and things like that.

Hybrid mana and Phyrexian mana are under different rules.

Hybrid is

107.4e

Phyrexian is
107.4f

The monocolor hybrid is easy to exclude.

A simple rule might be:
Cards with multicolored hybrid mana costs have a color identity of either of the two mana symbol. (as a sub-point under the color identity rules).

---

[Dunharrow]

But isn't it the case that these cards were mistakes in the first place? If only blue gets to clone opponents' creatures, then Metamorph was a color pie break.

Do you think we should ban Hornet Queen? It is also a color pie break.

Look, I am not saying it is perfect, but pointing to specific cards and saying that those cards are problematic is not a good way to approach the whole thing. Those cards were mistakes when they printed them.

So we should spread the mistakes? EDH found a way to keep them at bay. I don't understand why we should broad it.
Because we should listen to maro? I don't like to hate on him, but he doesn't play the format while the RC has done it for 10+ years, so i'll trust them i guess.
Mel shouldn't trump Vorthos in a Vorthos format. The good gameplay that will come for allowing hybrids is really questionable.
Also because i haven't yet hear a rule variations that allows hybrids without allowing phyrexian mana, off color cards in reanimator decks and things like that.

It depends.
I was against making all planeswalkers legal as commanders because I think there are too many problematic walkers to have in the command zone.

But with making all these hybrid/phyrexian cards legal, there are few cards that would pose a problem. And I think that if we talked about the pros we would find they vastly outweigh the cons. Clone and expensive restrictive tutor is not exactly the type of effect every deck wants anyway. How many of your blue decks play metamorph? I think I have only one.

There are hybrid cards I would love to play but that I cannot play. Shaman of the Great Hunt is a red creature that I can activate for blue mana, but I cannot play it in Marchesa, the Black Rose.

It is possible to make a rule to allow hybrid cards. I admit it would not be elegant, but it is possible. It is even arguable that making hybrid cards legal in either color but not making phyrexian cards legal in any color is not intuitive.

I am not saying the rules would be elegant, I am not saying it even needs to be done... but I think it is an interesting discussion point and for any kind of rules change you have to weigh the pros and cons. If by some chance Metamorph would need to be banned (which I sincerely doubt), then is that an acceptable trade-off to having the ability to play cards more liberally?