What Makes Bad Games?

User avatar
hyalopterouslemur
Posts: 3218
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
4 years ago
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
4 years ago
I have a weird relationship with MLD. Mostly I don't mind it, but playing it when you're losing so you get the last laugh, yeah, don't do that.
Very true. Spiteful moves are just lame. Like scooping to deny a trigger or just scooping to removal are just disappointing and pretty immature. It's a game - be a good sport and don't get spiteful.
There's a whole other question of "spite or stupidity" plays that give cards a bad reputation.

A stupidity play would be countering someone's Wrath to protect your board—in the shadow of a Blightsteel Colossus, It That Betrays, or other inherently game-winning threat. Or destroying a Leyline of the Void—with a five-color deck (i.e., a potential Hermit Druid or whatever the current "Who needs a library?" deck is) still in the game.

Don't get me wrong: Control screws over Timmyrific plays, but control screws over combo more. If you want your games to last more than a couple turns, you need control players.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote:
4 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
4 years ago
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
4 years ago
I have a weird relationship with MLD. Mostly I don't mind it, but playing it when you're losing so you get the last laugh, yeah, don't do that.
Very true. Spiteful moves are just lame. Like scooping to deny a trigger or just scooping to removal are just disappointing and pretty immature. It's a game - be a good sport and don't get spiteful.
There's a whole other question of "spite or stupidity" plays that give cards a bad reputation.

A stupidity play would be countering someone's Wrath to protect your board—in the shadow of a Blightsteel Colossus, It That Betrays, or other inherently game-winning threat. Or destroying a Leyline of the Void—with a five-color deck (i.e., a potential Hermit Druid or whatever the current "Who needs a library?" deck is) still in the game.

Don't get me wrong: Control screws over Timmyrific plays, but control screws over combo more. If you want your games to last more than a couple turns, you need control players.
Oh yeah. Control is needed. The problem is that lots of people are either wary of control because the control player runs answers, or they expect the control player to act as regulator for the table. While that's possible to some degree, inevitably the control player runs out of answers and either the table capitulates or the control player has nothing left in the tank to fight off the people they were regulating for. There's just very little incentive to run control. I run control decks because I find them fun, but that's what I dig.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
Rumpy5897
Tuner of Jank
Posts: 1859
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 years ago

I can relate to piloting mistakes affecting the enjoyment of the game. In one particularly dismal case, some random countered my Daxos's Phyrexian Reclamation while the third guy in the pod ripped three consecutive unconditional tutors and comboed out on the spot, completely unimpeded. However, this is not something that can be regulated in any way. I've been prone to salinity when caught up in these situations, and have been working on looking past them for years.
 
EDH Primers (click me!)
Deck is Kill Club
Show
Hide

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 4 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 years ago
I can relate to piloting mistakes affecting the enjoyment of the game. In one particularly dismal case, some random countered my Daxos's Phyrexian Reclamation while the third guy in the pod ripped three consecutive unconditional tutors and comboed out on the spot, completely unimpeded. However, this is not something that can be regulated in any way. I've been prone to salinity when caught up in these situations, and have been working on looking past them for years.
I think there's just times where this is gonna happen; the stars align for a disappointing finish. I still find it hard not to get a little salty about it too, but hey, they can't all be zingers. The way I see it, it's a win for me if I've made my plays as cleverly and correctly as I can see to, whether I win the game or not - at least that way I come out of the game potentially having learned something.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
hyalopterouslemur
Posts: 3218
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by hyalopterouslemur » 4 years ago

And people generally don't run enough answers in favor of "look at this cool thing". Then the game turns into a race to draw your combo or whatever.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

boer0829
Posts: 32
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by boer0829 » 4 years ago

Yes, people should include more answers in their decks and not racing for combo's. Also threat assessment is important, not everyone is capable to see the same threat. Bad games happen when everyone is racing for their combo. The meta evolves in somekind of arms race.

Kangodo
Posts: 2
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Netherlands

Post by Kangodo » 4 years ago

Couple of things that can ruin a game for me:

1. Too different power-levels.
2. When people are basically trying to play solitaire until they win.
3. When people make intentionally bad plays: Like keeping a player alive to be nice, who then continues to combo out two turns later.
4. When games last too long and everyone is in topdeck mode.
5. Winning too fast or out of nowhere.

Basically I want average-length games where interaction happens and things are fairly equal.

Mimicvat
Posts: 172
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by Mimicvat » 4 years ago

Pretty sure I've seen these posted here, but my experience with crappy games has usually come from one of these areas;
  • Deck Strength Mismatch
Most people should know what I mean when I say that a 75% deck at a "cEDH" table, or somebody playing land destruction against low level jank or new players, leads to crap games. But can also extend to a group of more casual players not providing a setting for a more competitive player to use their decks - I believe everyone should have decks at all levels so you can accommodate different playstyles, and a rough level of power should be established before you sit down for a game.
  • Players whining excessively
I don't know a better way to phrase this, but when there is endless complaint about one thing or another to the detriment of the mood around the table. That player you can never, ever attack or destroy anything of theirs because its unfair and they are being targeted in their mind. Not people who make their opinion known, as this is healthy for the gaming group, just the ones that seem to find fault with everything.
  • Player count or Player interest
Games with too many players, and/or players who are not paying attention. Players who stop in the middle of their turn to talk about something for ages and ages. People who spend ten minutes mathing out each turn when the rest of the playgroup averages a minute or two so except for their biggest turns. No, I don't want everyone to sit down silently for some srs buisiness cardboard, but some basic etiquette so nobody's time is being wasted. Either play cards or don't!
  • OTT Rule enforcement - aka "missed triggers"
Some people like to play the game 'properly' and some to play it casually. "End turn - wait, whoops, I forgot to play my land" can lead to different responses at different tables. I'm not faulting people who want to play it that way, but its not for me, and makes games very unenjoyable if someone is trying to enforce tournament style etiquette on my casual cardboard.
  • Planeschase
I am completely over this terrible format forever. It always leads to four hour games, where most of the planes just seem to boardwipe you, or propel someone ahead, and what you do doesn't seem to matter. I remember one game, where I was the player going last, and the player just before me got a "swap the turn order" plane so I sat there for ages while everyone took two turns. Numberless games where all my stuff is just destroyed pretty much at random, or lol double mana time then move off of the plane while everyone is sitting around twiddling thumbs. I think Planeschase could be fixed but the addition of the planes cards as-is has me at the point where I'll just pack up and go if that stuff comes out.
Currently building: ww Bruna, the Fading Light (card advantage tribal / reanimator)
Main decks;
r Neheb, Big Red Champion g Yeva's Mono Green Control, b Ayara's Aristocrats rb Greven, Predator Captain the One Punch Man, ugw Derevri, Empirical Tactician Aggro,rwbu Tymna & Kraum's Saboteurs, wbg Kondo & Tymna's Hatebears wugTuvasa's Silver Bullets, urBrudiclad does Brudiclad thingsgubSidisi, Brood Tyrant (lantern control)

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”