"Help me cut a card" thread

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Post by RxPhantom » 9 months ago

First, don't go down to 34 when you're already describing the manabase as tight. You should probably add lands. But, if you're dead set, I'd go with Gorge and Bloodhall. Sunscorched just doesn't seem like enough to ever do anything meaningful, unless you're blinking it repeatedly or something.
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Post by shandiris » 9 months ago

OCPunisher wrote:
9 months ago
shandiris wrote:
9 months ago
I'm looking for some space in my Edgar Markov list, https://archidekt.com/decks/236778#IRL2:_Markov_Legion
Probable includes are going to be Judith, Scourge Diva, Legion's Landing. Idol of Oblivion, Bloodline Keeper, Dark Prophecy and a Knight of the Ebon Legion.
It's a pretty balls to the wall aggro list, which has some reach thanks all the aristocrat cards and stuff like Bolas' Citadel and Elenda, the Dusk Rose.

Any other card suggestions are also welcome.
First, unless you budget is super tight, I think you could afford to upgrade your land base a bit. If you really are an "aggro" deck, then waiting for tap-lands like the Gate cycle and the Scoured Barrens cycle is not a price you want to pay. I'd start with the check-land cycle, and the filter-land cycle, again depending on your budget. You're also really heavy on Swamps, which makes some sense given your build, but I would cut Aether Hub and Survivors' Encampment for a Plains and a Mountain.

Make sure you don't fall into the tribal trap. Just because a card has the word "vampire" somewhere on it doesn't mean it's good enough for this format.

For spells, all of the cards you want to add seem like solid upgrades. I'd cut any of the following for them:
- Adanto Vanguard is better in other formats than this one.
- Bloodtracker seems overpriced for the payoff you get.
- Changeling Outcast, Duskborne Skymarcher, Gifted Aetherborn, Insolent Neonate, Skymarcher Aspirant, Stromkirk Noble, Vampire Cutthroat, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire of the Dire Moon, and Vicious Conquistador just aren't good enough for this format.
- How often do you benefit from the madness granted by Falkenrath Gorger? My guess is not often enough for an otherwise vanilla 2/1 body.
- Serra Ascendant: How often does your life total stay above the requisite 30? She's great early, but gets a lot worse later if you don't have the consistent lifegain.
- What's the purpose of Possibility Storm? Doesn't seem like an aggro card.
- Same with Paradise Mantle and Springleaf Drum. Signets and Talismans are cheap and effective.
- Last One Standing seems a little too random and doesn't line up with your core strategy. I'd rather have something like Dusk // Dawn or Austere Command or Retribution of the Meek to take advantage of the smaller size of your guys.

Hope that helps you!
Ye the manabase needs work. It's a semi budget list, (as most of my lists are) but this is one of the decks that needs the untapped lands the most. What would you say about the amount of untapped sources? Is adding basics instead of guildgates wise?

Adanto Vanguard, Bloodtracker, Gifted Aetherborn, Paradise Mantle are probaly good cuts. They all have some reason to be in there (wraths, being good when I'm not doing great on board, deathtouch, badly needed fixing) but they're good ideas to cut.

With regards to all the 1 drops, they're a core of the deck, trying to push both the eminence ability of edgar and black instant card draw to the fullest Necropotence, Ad Nauseam, Minion's Murmurs and the like). I think the eminence ability makes 1 drops a lot better than 2/3/4 drops here.

Last One Standing I wanted a board wipe in there that didn't cost double white and was cheap. Retribution of the Meek is an interesting one for sure.

Possibility Storm is an extra Anointed Procession(you get 2 tokens) and wrath protection. I don't care as much about which vampire I hit, but opponents not being able to plan their board wipes, combo pieces and counterspells is very good for me. Double red can be a issue though.

Thanks a lot for the help, other people's input is always insightful.
Last edited by shandiris 9 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 9 months ago

Psst. [card], not [deck] :P Feel free to edit the post for legibility.

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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

shandiris wrote:
9 months ago
Ye the manabase needs work. It's a semi budget list, (as most of my lists are) but this is one of the decks that needs the untapped lands the most. What would you say about the amount of untapped sources? Is adding basics instead of guildgates wise?

Possibility Storm is an extra Anointed Procession(you get 2 tokens) and wrath protection. I don't care as much about which vampire I hit, but opponents not being able to plan their board wipes, combo pieces and counterspells is very good for me. Double red can be a issue though.

Thanks a lot for the help, other people's input is always insightful.
No problem, I feel the same way.

I didn't consider the behavior of Possibility Storm as you describe it, but that's not a bad interaction.

Your manabase is kind of between a rock (three-color deck) and a hard place (low land count and semi-budget), so it's hard to justify one over the other. On the one hand, you value speed, so basics are gonna be faster. On the other hand, you play three colors, so you run the risk of not hitting them as well with basics. This is why I always put so much of a focus on lands.
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Post by toctheyounger » 9 months ago

So, I'm going to weigh in a little here with some prior experience with a semi-budget Edgar list. I took mine apart for being too linear, which I find a bit boring, but no shade if it's your jam, different strokes and all that.

Edgar really, really wants as low a ceiling as possible on his horde. I know one of the previous posters mentioned some of the lower cost creatures not being good enough for the format, and in any other deck that's true. In this one though, any one drop vampire you can squeeze in is an immediate 2 creatures for one mana. It's a tempo boost that most other decks simply can't match, so I'd recommend looking into it, especially with tribal and combat buffs. Adanto Vanguard isn't fantastic, and neither is Bloodtracker, but your other one drops you definitely should keep. You'd be well served replacing these with Bloodline Keeper and Knight of the Ebon Legion. There's a couple of others I didn't see here too,Pulse Tracker, Shadow Alley Denizen, Guul Draz Vampire and Guul Draz Assassin. In terms of cuts for them I'd look at Patron of the Vein (too steep), Vampire Nocturnus (WAY too conditional for a tri-colour deck and not worth it for the bonus) and Pawn of Ulamog (doesn't give you coloured mana, and with a low curve that's what you need).

I agree Last one Standing is far too random to be useful here. Austere Command is excellent[/card], but if you can't track that or Retribution of the Meek down (the latter got pretty pricey), Citywide Bust has done good things for me and it's cheap.

Landbase, you don't NEED a ton of valuable stuff, so long as you can colour fix and hit untapped drops early you're good. A nice easy way to manage that is signets and talismans to supplement your basics, worked well in my previous build - they'd be a lot better for you than Paradise Mantle. Or you could go for check lands and Tango lands for cheap mana fixing untapped lands, which are tons better than the Khans life lands and still cheapish. Vault of the Archangel I found a great rattlesnake land to include too.

Hope all of this helps and isn't confusing the matter.
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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
9 months ago
Edgar really, really wants as low a ceiling as possible on his horde. I know one of the previous posters mentioned some of the lower cost creatures not being good enough for the format, and in any other deck that's true. In this one though, any one drop vampire you can squeeze in is an immediate 2 creatures for one mana. It's a tempo boost that most other decks simply can't match, so I'd recommend looking into it, especially with tribal and combat buffs.
This is really interesting. When I wrote that post, I was looking at the cards in a bit of a vacuum and not putting enough stock into the speed aspect of them. Then again, my group also had an Edgar deck for a brief time that was just not very effective, so maybe I didn't respect the aggro strategy enough. Furthermore, given that it's becoming more trendy to lower the curve in this format, maybe there is a home here for some of these otherwise unplayable one-drops.
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Post by shandiris » 9 months ago

[mention]toctheyounger[/mention] [mention] octhepunisher [/mention] Thanks for the feedback!

Pawn of Ulamog is tricky. It's probaly gone in and then out about as much as any card (except maybe metallic mimic which is now definitively out due to not making a token). Patron of the Vein is probaly cuttable due to it's cmc. Vampire Nocturnus I will keep in. There's a couple of effects that can actually manipulate the top (Viscera Seer, Necropotence, Bolas' Citadel, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician) and although it is a three color deck, 20 cards are non black, which leaves 44 black cards, which I think is enough due to how big the effect is (the flying is actually quite big)


Yeah smoldering marsh and dragonskull summit are cards I'm currently trying to get. In regards to signets/talismans I'm not sure it's optimal for Edgar (which I know is a controversial statement). But I haven't yet seen an Edgar list (including my own when I first started the deck) perform better because of them. You tend to up in a more midrange aristocrats style. I think you either go all in on the 1 drops, or go midrange. And I think the aggro version is just better. And the deck has been performing quite well lately, I would say it's one of my higher powered decks.

Why is austere command fine as a 6 in your opinion but patron of the vein isn't btw?

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Post by toctheyounger » 9 months ago

[mention]OCPunisher[/mention] yeah there aren't many lists that need crappy chump drops but Edgar is one of them. Otherwise I guess there's elfball and edric. They just give a tempo boost that's hard to contend with in a format that doesn't move quickly. You CAN build a list with Edgar that has a higher curve but generally it's optimal to keep it low and tight. Especially because of Edgars cost to cast too - he's not cheap, and you want him swinging with an army when you cast him.

[mention]shandiris[/mention] Austere is excellent because of its modality. It gives you options to sweep beaters and leave your army intact, wipe the board entirely or get rid of control pieces. It's a very strong wipe purely for the options it gives you.

The signets and talismans aren't optimal, no, but ultimately with a very low ceiling your colorless CMC is generally quite low anyway. So most of the time your lands and rocks are there to colour fix, and that's what these are great at. You could go for options in cheap duals and shocks but if your budget isn't optimal these will do just fine. They're never going to be the linchpin of your deck but they will get early drops done and that's what wins games with Edgar.
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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

My Trostani deck here is getting pretty thick on fours and fives, with 13(!) apiece. Lately, I've noticed that my hand can get clogged with too many clunky spells, and I need to make some room for a few more cheap ramp spells. Which fours and/or fives would you get rid of in the name of lowering the curve?
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

OCPunisher wrote:
9 months ago
My Trostani deck here is getting pretty thick on fours and fives, with 13(!) apiece. Lately, I've noticed that my hand can get clogged with too many clunky spells, and I need to make some room for a few more cheap ramp spells. Which fours and/or fives would you get rid of in the name of lowering the curve?
My possible cuts:
Lives == Enlightened Tutor, very easy swap that also fixes your mana a bit (since you can e-tutor for skullclamp or sol ring or whatever).

Tragic Arrogance is just a bad sweeper. I've never had much luck with it. Hour of Revelation is far stronger if you want thatmany sweepers in this deck, and Elesh Norn would probably be a better pick for that slot.

Reservoir is a powerful card but it just doesn't seem to add much fun to the gameplan to me. Your game is pretty strong already with all the bros and beats. Feels like it'd be better to make that more resilient and consistent than to play the laserbeam game.

Helm of the Host again feels kinda off - it's also a huge tempo swing if it gets removed or the creature gets removed.

Karmic Guide feels kinda just meh in this deck; you've got plenty of recursion and no real way to take advantage of guide (no survival/birthing pod). It's just goodstuff, feels like you could get more efficient or on theme.

Spike Weaver is expensive and I feel like you probably don't need to go infinite to get it done with archanel in this deck; if archangel sticks you seem very unlikely to lose the game anyway.

Angel of Sanctions feels very weak except for the populate interaction which is quite expensive - feels like the type of thing someone makes you really pay for when you go to populate it and they kill the token and get their thing back and you've now spent 9 mana to do nothing. Just feels cute to me overall.

Crested Sunmare is fine. Just feels like one of the weaker things you can be doing in the deck to me.

Hydra is a lot of mana for a tapped cradle.

I think there are too many powerful threats in there to cut all of them for ramp. I would probably lean on just picking the ones of those you dislike the most and replacing with a small ramp package.

last one: Cathars' Crusade - just a card I never enjoyed resolving much. It's quite annoying. I'd rather have Norn here as well.

Some cards I would consider:
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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

That was exactly what I needed: a fresh pair of eyes! Thanks [mention]pokken[/mention]!

I ended up making the following changes based on your input:
- Ulvenwald Hydra => Springbloom Druid
- Angel of Sanctions => Nature's Lore
- Cathars' Crusade => Lotus Field
- Anointed Procession => Enlightened Tutor
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

I'll hopefully have you do the same thing for my new Mimeoplasm deck in a few weeks I think :) It's a bit of a garbage fire of darlings I can't kill right now. Gotta playtest a bit.

I think all of those changes are good. Nice to take it slow when making shifts like that. Let me know how lotus field goes -- been thinking about trying it out in some loam decks but haven't gotten the guts to do so yet :)
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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
I'll hopefully have you do the same thing for my new Mimeoplasm deck in a few weeks I think :) It's a bit of a garbage fire of darlings I can't kill right now. Gotta playtest a bit.

I think all of those changes are good. Nice to take it slow when making shifts like that. Let me know how lotus field goes -- been thinking about trying it out in some loam decks but haven't gotten the guts to do so yet :)
Will do.

The word "hexproof" is a game-changer for Lotus Field vs anything else like it. It basically means the only way to take it out is by way of Armageddons, which are rare enough to be negligible. I'll be adding it into more decks in the near future.
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Here's my mimeoplasm deck:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2511960?s=c&o=a

I got a bunch of games in last night and it worked very well overall. I had a few sketchy keeps -- I consciously kept all the traditional tutors out of there, and its blue commitment is awkward so has a hard time always casting cantrips so I didn't play ponder/brainstorm (although I think those could be good).

It's basically the leftovers of my gitrog deck plus a mimeoplasm package.

I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
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Post by materpillar » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
Oath of Ghouls seems like a worse Oversold Cemetery

Coiling Oracle is fine. I think you could easily cut it for a removal spell though.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast appears to only be in to combo with Woodfall Primus.
You seem to be going about as cut-throat as possible. I'm surprised by a lack of Skittles.
I really dislike Sensei's Divining Top. You have a bunch of fetchlands but no other synergies. I doubt it is actually great in this deck.
You have a lot of beef. I think the easiest cuts would be some of the 7+CC creatures.


In my case. I'm not sure what card I should cut for Realm-Cloaked Giant in my Changeling Tribal deck.

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

materpillar wrote:
9 months ago
pokken wrote:
9 months ago
I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
Oath of Ghouls seems like a worse Oversold Cemetery

Coiling Oracle is fine. I think you could easily cut it for a removal spell though.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast appears to only be in to combo with Woodfall Primus.
You seem to be going about as cut-throat as possible. I'm surprised by a lack of Skittles.
I really dislike Sensei's Divining Top. You have a bunch of fetchlands but no other synergies. I doubt it is actually great in this deck.
You have a lot of beef. I think the easiest cuts would be some of the 7+CC creatures.


In my case. I'm not sure what card I should cut for Realm-Cloaked Giant in my Changeling Tribal deck.
Yeah Oath is fair, it's mostly a fun of -- though getting 4 creatures in your bin is not as easy as getting 1 and having someone with 0 which is the main reason I play it. I wanted a cheap source of recursion that didn't cost mana/life. If the symmetry of ghouls costs me I might - though my thought was mimeoplasm being essentially yard hate would mitigate that some (like if someone had an ooze in there, I could copy it).

Melira/Primus is fair. So my thought originally was to play black sun's zenith but I wound up cutting it -- primus is amazingly good with mimeoplasm (since persist is just exceptional with him) but I think you're right that the combo is fairly greedy. Varolz could probably go by extension. I'm not sure this deck really needs a combo finish, since it can straight up just murdilate with a 20/20 plasm.

re: cuttthroat, what I'm trying to do is go really hard but not spend all my time tutoring for wins. You'll notice a suspicious lack of vampric tutor, buried alive, entomb, demonic tutor. That's also part of why there's so many fatties is without tons of search effects I need the density to be fairly high for when I mill for them.

The top synergy is courser/oracle - and generally land light hands. It also synergizes at protecting dredgers (you can tap top to dredge).

re: Changeling Tribal

realm cloaked giant seems insane in that deck. The cut depend son whether you want to 1) replace a worse version of the same effect, 2) increase the density of that effect.

If you want to replace the worst board control element, widespread brutality seems like the worst.

If your goal is to increase the density, irregular cohort feels like one of the weaker cards.
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Post by NZB2323 » 9 months ago

shandiris wrote:
9 months ago
I'm looking for some space in my Edgar Markov list, https://archidekt.com/decks/236778#IRL2:_Markov_Legion
Probable includes are going to be Judith, Scourge Diva, Legion's Landing. Idol of Oblivion, Bloodline Keeper, Dark Prophecy and a Knight of the Ebon Legion.
It's a pretty balls to the wall aggro list, which has some reach thanks all the aristocrat cards and stuff like Bolas' Citadel and Elenda, the Dusk Rose.

Any other card suggestions are also welcome.
I realize that I'm a little late here, but I have some suggestions if you're interested. These are cards I would cut:
Adds:
I realize some of my suggested adds are pricey. If they're out of your price range, I'd recommend adding more one-drop vampires. My list plays all of them, including adaptive automaton. They're so good with Edgar, especially if you have Necropotence or Ad Naseam to grab a bunch of them. For cuts, I basically recommended that you cut ramp and cards that cost a lot of mana so the deck can be more focused on an aggro build.

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Post by OCPunisher » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Here's my mimeoplasm deck:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2511960?s=c&o=a

I got a bunch of games in last night and it worked very well overall. I had a few sketchy keeps -- I consciously kept all the traditional tutors out of there, and its blue commitment is awkward so has a hard time always casting cantrips so I didn't play ponder/brainstorm (although I think those could be good).

It's basically the leftovers of my gitrog deck plus a mimeoplasm package.

I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
I'm not a big expert on The Mimeoplasm (we'll call it "Mim"), but here goes:
- Birds of Paradise: Let's say you target this and something else with Mim...what sort of advantage is a 5/6 BoP vs a 0/1?
- Coiling Oracle: As someone else mentioned already, not a great body once the ETB trigger is done. Maybe a Tomebound Lich?
- Roil Elemental: I know this used to be a Gitrog deck, but this still feels like a weak card, and it's triple blue.
- Grim Flayer: Maybe it's my personal style of going after someone else's yard vs my own, but I hate self-milling, and having to survive the combat step just to be rewarded with a small self-mill doesn't appeal to me.
- Castle Garenbrig: I don't understand the point of this card...it nets you one extra mana, and doesn't fix anything except maybe a Feasting Troll King? No thanks.

Also, how competitive is this deck supposed to be? I see a lot of big-money cards in here...
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

OCPunisher wrote:
9 months ago
pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Here's my mimeoplasm deck:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2511960?s=c&o=a

I got a bunch of games in last night and it worked very well overall. I had a few sketchy keeps -- I consciously kept all the traditional tutors out of there, and its blue commitment is awkward so has a hard time always casting cantrips so I didn't play ponder/brainstorm (although I think those could be good).

It's basically the leftovers of my gitrog deck plus a mimeoplasm package.

I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
I'm not a big expert on The Mimeoplasm (we'll call it "Mim"), but here goes:
- Birds of Paradise: Let's say you target this and something else with Mim...what sort of advantage is a 5/6 BoP vs a 0/1?
- Coiling Oracle: As someone else mentioned already, not a great body once the ETB trigger is done. Maybe a Tomebound Lich?
- Roil Elemental: I know this used to be a Gitrog deck, but this still feels like a weak card, and it's triple blue.
- Grim Flayer: Maybe it's my personal style of going after someone else's yard vs my own, but I hate self-milling, and having to survive the combat step just to be rewarded with a small self-mill doesn't appeal to me.
- Castle Garenbrig: I don't understand the point of this card...it nets you one extra mana, and doesn't fix anything except maybe a Feasting Troll King? No thanks.

Also, how competitive is this deck supposed to be? I see a lot of big-money cards in here...
BoP is not a huge advantage but t1 ramp is good :) Oracle I'm iffy on too, though it puts lands out at 2 which is nice. That lich does seem kinda interesting but 3 cmc vs. 2 is a big consideration.

Roil elemental is a recent add as a creature that can remove stuff. You'd be really surprised how often it just runs away with games. Deck makes UUU pretty easily but it's also a fairly good mimeoplasm target (flying decent body).

Grim Flayer - just wanted to try it, but the deck is mostly set up to self mill. I'm not sure if it'll be good or not, so definitely on the cutlist.

Garenbring -- my experience so far with it is it makes +1 mana pretty reliably, though it can be awkward. The deck is almost half green though so it accelerates into lots of the green ramp spells pretty well. I'd recommend if you have a high forest count it's worth a try. It's been exceptional in Maelstrom Wanderer.

How competitive, eh...it's like a 7/10 :) It's mostly just a home for my bazaar and survival at this point.
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Post by shandiris » 9 months ago

NZB2323 wrote:
9 months ago
shandiris wrote:
9 months ago
I'm looking for some space in my Edgar Markov list, https://archidekt.com/decks/236778#IRL2:_Markov_Legion
I realize that I'm a little late here, but I have some suggestions if you're interested. These are cards I would cut:
Adds:
I realize some of my suggested adds are pricey. If they're out of your price range, I'd recommend adding more one-drop vampires. My list plays all of them, including adaptive automaton. They're so good with Edgar, especially if you have Necropotence or Ad Naseam to grab a bunch of them. For cuts, I basically recommended that you cut ramp and cards that cost a lot of mana so the deck can be more focused on an aggro build.
Thanks for the input!
I probaly would play even more onedrops, if i had those 4 tutors for necropotence in there. The deck has a really high winrate when I draw/play it and increasing the 1 drops would probaly boost that win rate if it happens even more. However.. I don't really have the buget for the tutors atm and I do want to win the games in which I don't play necro.
Throne of the God-Pharaoh I tried, but didn't like. I found it's only good if you make bad attacks, (all in all the time) and no haste really hurts it. I don't play metallic mimic or adaptive automaton anymore, no token makes other cards better in my opinion. Impact Tremors is interesting. If I like Ayara, First of Locthwain I'll probaly try to find room for that one too.
Hard agree on all the lands (except phyrexian tower), but budget.

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Post by shandiris » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Here's my mimeoplasm deck:
https://deckbox.org/sets/2511960?s=c&o=a

I got a bunch of games in last night and it worked very well overall. I had a few sketchy keeps -- I consciously kept all the traditional tutors out of there, and its blue commitment is awkward so has a hard time always casting cantrips so I didn't play ponder/brainstorm (although I think those could be good).

It's basically the leftovers of my gitrog deck plus a mimeoplasm package.

I'm looking for mainly
1) what cards seem not to belong
2) what could I add to put a bit more interaction in there, especially in creature form.

I'm feeling like I want about 3 more interactive spells but not sure.
Lion's Eye Diamond nice flex, but other than that I don''t really see the point?
Sensei's Divining Top I generally don't really like the card in decks that don't really do anything with top of library triggers.
Green Sun's Zenith Seems weird in a deck that wants to tutor stuff to the graveyard. Buried Alive or Entomb seems way better?
Crop Rotation Don't really see why in this deck
City of Traitors To find this? Also don't really see the point

Maybe add a Triskelion?

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

shandiris wrote:
9 months ago

Lion's Eye Diamond nice flex, but other than that I don''t really see the point?
Sensei's Divining Top I generally don't really like the card in decks that don't really do anything with top of library triggers.
Green Sun's Zenith Seems weird in a deck that wants to tutor stuff to the graveyard. Buried Alive or Entomb seems way better?
Crop Rotation Don't really see why in this deck
City of Traitors To find this? Also don't really see the point

Maybe add a Triskelion?
LED enables the occasional god-line of turn 2 discard a couple fatties + mimeoplasm, I'm not sure it's good enough but it feels likely - also a pretty good lategame discard outlet if you need one.

Top - courser+oracle+dredge enabling at instant speed to protect your dredger from yard hate

GSZ - it's turn 1 ramp off dryad arbor (and late game gets underrealm lich or a couple other key cards (apex atisaur, GGT, Excavator, Ooze). Possible buried alive or entomb are better but tryin to keep the linearity down a bit - gsz acts mostly like a mana dork that's slightly more flexible vs. setting up killshots like BA.

The crop rotation package is there to find cradle primarily, but also dakmor if I need a dredger or volrath's stronghold for recursion or nurturing peatland/waterlogged grove if I need a loam thing, etc.

City is just another loamable way to ramp into an early bomb. I've found it pretty good with the volume of GY recursion but ymmv. It's mostly a holdover from Gitrog's land package. So it could possibly go long term.

Triskelion does seem like a very good removal dude with Plasm, coming with all the likely ton of counters from a fattie. Added that to my maybe list.
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Post by shandiris » 8 months ago

Okay, let me start off by saying this an atypical deck. It's a deck built primarily around a non commander card, namely Sunforger In order to maximize that card, we play partners to get four colors. It's a long evolving deck which started out as Tajic, Blade of the Legion, then Boros Partners and then became the current four color version. It's a toolboxy deck, with a sunforger package, a equipment package, a couple of mage packages and a land package.

It tends to play somewhat of a tempo or midrange style deck depending on who you're facing (and what you're drawing). It can come out of nowhere to get one or two hit kills with Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder against combo or control decks. Bruse is also the commander I'm casting and utilizing the most. Silas Renn, Seeker Adept get's some occasional value, but is mostly there for colors. Against more combat heavy decks you want to play more of a value game through Sunforger.

All that being said, it's a deck I always want to try out new cards in, so where do you think there some room to cut? And what are (relatively cheap) cards you would add to the land package?

https://archidekt.com/decks/265497#IRL: ... of_Mjolnir

Currently testing God Pharaoh's Gift and Gate to the Afterlife so those are uncuttable at the moment. Helm of the Host is really good in the deck, it's just anticlimatic to do the whole Godo combo, so it's out.

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Post by OCPunisher » 8 months ago

shandiris wrote:
8 months ago
Okay, let me start off by saying this an atypical deck. It's a deck built primarily around a non commander card, namely Sunforger In order to maximize that card, we play partners to get four colors. It's a long evolving deck which started out as Tajic, Blade of the Legion, then Boros Partners and then became the current four color version. It's a toolboxy deck, with a sunforger package, a equipment package, a couple of mage packages and a land package.

It tends to play somewhat of a tempo or midrange style deck depending on who you're facing (and what you're drawing). It can come out of nowhere to get one or two hit kills with Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder against combo or control decks. Bruse is also the commander I'm casting and utilizing the most. Silas Renn, Seeker Adept get's some occasional value, but is mostly there for colors. Against more combat heavy decks you want to play more of a value game through Sunforger.

All that being said, it's a deck I always want to try out new cards in, so where do you think there some room to cut? And what are (relatively cheap) cards you would add to the land package?

https://archidekt.com/decks/265497#IRL: ... of_Mjolnir

Currently testing God Pharaoh's Gift and Gate to the Afterlife so those are uncuttable at the moment. Helm of the Host is really good in the deck, it's just anticlimatic to do the whole Godo combo, so it's out.
I'm having a hard time getting over the land count in this deck, even for one with a relatively low curve (average CMC = 2.99) and as many rocks as you have. For reference, my Kykar Sunforger list has an average CMC of 2.42 and I still have six more lands than you, albeit some of the more expensive ones. But still, I'd be looking to add even 2-3 more basics, unless you can afford some better ones.

For cuts:
- Burnished Hart: It's technically six mana for a ramp spell, and I don't see many ways to recur it or abuse it. For that price, I'd rather play good ol' Smothering Tithe, or basic Tithe, or Land Tax, or just another land.
- Weathered Wayfarer: You don't have much for utility lands, so wouldn't you rather just have another land than spend mana every turn to dig them up?
- A lot of four-drops...Marchesa, the Black Rose, Elusive Tormentor, Ogre Battledriver, Palace Jailer, Bloodsworn Steward, even my boy Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: Can you afford to cast these, and are they really worth casting?
- Rout: Not a bad card, but if you have access to four colors, you want the best of the best. I'd rather try Tragic Arrogance, Supreme Verdict, Toxic Deluge, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction, Time Wipe.
- Pull from Tomorrow and Stroke of Genius: do these actually work with only 30 lands?
- Path of Ancestry, Temple of Triumph: You have almost as many ETB tapped lands as you have creatures. I'd replace these with any number of cheap duals. Clifftop Retreat and Sacred Foundry would be first on the list.
- Treasure Mage: It has one target? That's not really enough...
- Fatal Frenzy, Overblaze: These feels like win-more. It's only good if you have an equipped unblocked creature.
- Aven Mindcensor: A fine card, just seems out of place here.

Hope that helps you!
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Post by shandiris » 8 months ago

OCPunisher wrote:
8 months ago
shandiris wrote:
8 months ago
Okay, let me start off by saying this an atypical deck. It's a deck built primarily around a non commander card, namely Sunforger In order to maximize that card, we play partners to get four colors. It's a long evolving deck which started out as Tajic, Blade of the Legion, then Boros Partners and then became the current four color version. It's a toolboxy deck, with a sunforger package, a equipment package, a couple of mage packages and a land package.

It tends to play somewhat of a tempo or midrange style deck depending on who you're facing (and what you're drawing). It can come out of nowhere to get one or two hit kills with Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder against combo or control decks. Bruse is also the commander I'm casting and utilizing the most. Silas Renn, Seeker Adept get's some occasional value, but is mostly there for colors. Against more combat heavy decks you want to play more of a value game through Sunforger.

All that being said, it's a deck I always want to try out new cards in, so where do you think there some room to cut? And what are (relatively cheap) cards you would add to the land package?

https://archidekt.com/decks/265497#IRL: ... of_Mjolnir

Currently testing God Pharaoh's Gift and Gate to the Afterlife so those are uncuttable at the moment. Helm of the Host is really good in the deck, it's just anticlimatic to do the whole Godo combo, so it's out.
I'm having a hard time getting over the land count in this deck, even for one with a relatively low curve (average CMC = 2.99) and as many rocks as you have. For reference, my Kykar Sunforger list has an average CMC of 2.42 and I still have six more lands than you, albeit some of the more expensive ones. But still, I'd be looking to add even 2-3 more basics, unless you can afford some better ones.

For cuts:
- Burnished Hart: It's technically six mana for a ramp spell, and I don't see many ways to recur it or abuse it. For that price, I'd rather play good ol' Smothering Tithe, or basic Tithe, or Land Tax, or just another land.
- Weathered Wayfarer: You don't have much for utility lands, so wouldn't you rather just have another land than spend mana every turn to dig them up?
- A lot of four-drops...Marchesa, the Black Rose, Elusive Tormentor, Ogre Battledriver, Palace Jailer, Bloodsworn Steward, even my boy Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: Can you afford to cast these, and are they really worth casting?
- Rout: Not a bad card, but if you have access to four colors, you want the best of the best. I'd rather try Tragic Arrogance, Supreme Verdict, Toxic Deluge, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction, Time Wipe.
- Pull from Tomorrow and Stroke of Genius: do these actually work with only 30 lands?
- Path of Ancestry, Temple of Triumph: You have almost as many ETB tapped lands as you have creatures. I'd replace these with any number of cheap duals. Clifftop Retreat and Sacred Foundry would be first on the list.
- Treasure Mage: It has one target? That's not really enough...
- Fatal Frenzy, Overblaze: These feels like win-more. It's only good if you have an equipped unblocked creature.
- Aven Mindcensor: A fine card, just seems out of place here.

Hope that helps you!
In terms of lands, you're probaly right somewhat, I could definately use more. It has a tendency to actually run quite well on mana, since it often relies on repeated baubles through Silas Renn, Seeker Adept, Curse of Opulence , Sword of the Animist or Weathered Wayfarer and my ability to find these types of things is quite high. Sword of the Animist is something I tutor for early a lot. However if these get removed I can be in trouble.
To be honest I was surprised at the amount I was running when I started putting it into a decklist. It feels like it plays 35, if that makes any sense at all. Still 30 is really low, so you're probaly correct.

Burnished Hart is probaly a good call to replace. Land Tax and Smothering Tithe are good suggestions.
4 Drops: Elusive Tormentor is awesome in theory (indestructible, hexproof body to carry an equipment) but now that I think about it, has never really worked. Palace Jailer is an awesome card (I just love monarch as a mechanic, especially in a deck that can gain life easily like this one), but probaly not good enough. The haste and flash enablers are just too good with Bruse Tarl.
Rout: true, the azorious ones would definately be better.
Lands: 10/30 CIPT isn't great but it's somewhat survivable, Boros Guildgate should become a basic though. If I had a sacred foundry around it would probaly go into a higher powered deck. But my overall meta is pretty budget so it's usally fine in terms of tempo.
Pull from Tomorrow and Stroke of Genius. Yes it does tend to work out quite well although they suck turn 1-6 obviously, This deck needs single spell huge card draw in order to reload every so often (partly because you can get all rocks). But Into the Story and Fact or Fiction might be better, since I'm usually casting these X spells for no more than 4 or 5.
Fatal Frenzy and Overblaze: Overblaze is probaly cuttable, since two of these effect is just taking a random slot, but doubling a double striker (Bruse Tarl) and giving it trample has given me a lot of wins out of nowhere.
Aven Mindcensor: Carries equipment well and is a good hatepiece. So it's probaly staying in.
Treasure Mage: it has 2 actually but I see your point.

Thanks alot, it always helps to get a different perspective. Especially the 4 drops wasn't something I never really thought about.

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